0:02

Never since I was a child, people

0:04

said my family was cursed. Mom

0:07

tried to protect us with God. Pop

0:10

tried to protect us with wrestling. He

0:12

said if we were the toughest, the strongest,

0:14

nothing had ever hurt us. I

0:18

believed him. We all did. Da

0:20

da da da da da da da! You

0:23

sound insane. Do you like that?

0:26

Oh, yeah! The whole world got

0:28

crazy! Seriously? Yeah!

0:31

It's showtime. That's

0:33

right. What's

0:36

going on, man-fam? It's your boy Richard here. I'm

0:38

here with Kent

0:40

and Brian. We are all

0:42

here hosting this episode. A little different

0:44

kickoff than you're probably used to. You

0:48

know, we mix it up sometimes. Keep fresh. We

0:52

consider ourselves kind of the von Erichs of the

0:54

podcasting business. And I have not seen the

0:56

film, but I think it goes great for

0:59

them. So I will kick it off from

1:01

here. No, we're here talking The

1:03

Iron Claw. Sean Durkin's The Iron Claw, which

1:06

has been a... One

1:09

of those movies, our favorite thing to do, are these

1:12

kind of... In my opinion, my favorite thing

1:14

to do are these movies that happen hopefully

1:16

every year, sometimes every couple of years, that...

1:20

More and more, because of the way releases

1:22

are done and what streamers are pushing, and

1:25

the politics of awards season, you're kind

1:27

of aware of what

1:29

is really being pushed, what

1:31

the players will be in terms of the great movies of

1:33

the year. You know, you know

1:35

this maybe in July or August.

1:38

Okay, there's one this summer and now everything

1:40

else will be later. And then every... If

1:42

you're lucky, some stuff kind of comes out

1:44

of nowhere and

1:47

captures everyone and is enjoyed by everyone that

1:49

sees it. And

1:51

I would say this film has been that for a lot of

1:53

people. It's been on a lot of top ten lists. It's actually

1:56

made decent money. It's a 24, so

1:58

I can't say it came totally out of nowhere.

2:00

but it has been a fun

2:03

little movie talking to people about it. I've gotten

2:05

a lot of texts and things

2:07

about this one. So before I get into

2:10

all of our general thoughts, Brian, what was

2:12

your anticipation on this? Kent

2:14

and I are, I wouldn't say

2:16

we're wrestling fans, but we've been to

2:18

wrestling events together. I don't follow it

2:20

week to week, but I loved

2:22

wrestling for those two years from 9 to 11 when

2:26

I was a kid or whatever. And then if Kent and

2:28

I are going to WrestleMania or something,

2:30

I'll keep up with it for a couple weeks

2:32

leading up to it. But Brian has no wrestling

2:34

in his background, so he was probably

2:36

not as interested in this. I

2:39

don't even know if you knew this story, but you are kind of a

2:41

historian of DFW, so maybe you did. But

2:43

anyway, neither here nor there. I'd love to hear your anticipation

2:45

of this movie. Yeah, I was stoked

2:47

about this because the cast

2:50

was pretty interesting. It looked like it was going to be a good

2:53

movie to begin with. The

2:55

Von Eriks occupy a weird space

2:57

that may not matter

2:59

to a

3:02

listener in Wisconsin or something. I

3:04

don't know, but around here, that's

3:07

like, even for somebody who I don't,

3:10

you're exactly right. We

3:13

used to do, it's been a while, we used to do

3:15

a bit on the podcast where you guys would start to

3:17

talk about wrestling and I would pretend to fall asleep because

3:19

I could not care less about anything about

3:22

wrestling except for obviously the

3:24

Undertaker. How could you not

3:26

love the Undertaker? The

3:28

Von Eriks have their sort of

3:31

sport royalty around here, I feel

3:33

like. Their

3:36

story is super tragic

3:38

and awful, but also very interesting.

3:42

The Sportatorium was a huge deal

3:45

in the city of Dallas. I remember when

3:48

it was kind of done with its run

3:50

mostly as a wrestling venue and then you

3:52

would still have the occasional concert that would

3:54

come through there and things like that. Certainly

3:58

not when I was going to concerts. but like when

4:00

I was kind of aware of Bands

4:02

and tours and things like that. I think like

4:04

vanilla ice played the sport of the morning one

4:06

time or something like anyway Sport

4:09

of touring is like a really cool Classic

4:12

venue here And

4:14

the Von Erics play a huge part in that so yeah,

4:16

look I was very I was very excited about this movie

4:18

I was anticipating it quite a bit and

4:22

this is the only kind of Biopic

4:25

whether this is a traditional biopic or not

4:27

doesn't really matter but this is the only

4:29

kind of biopic I'm really actually ever interested

4:31

in is the The

4:33

one where I am curious about the

4:35

subject, but I don't know a whole

4:37

lot about them So the

4:39

Von Erics being from here and and having

4:42

you know grown up here From

4:45

in the Dallas for worth area my whole life. I

4:47

know who they are I don't know a whole lot

4:49

about them And so this was that's what I want

4:51

from a biopic I don't and and if you can

4:53

kind of contain it to a Short

4:55

time period too. I think that's always a win

4:57

for a biopic and they did that pretty well

4:59

here too as well So that's yeah,

5:01

I was pumped for this. I was really excited Yeah,

5:04

what about you? What was your anticipation coming in? Yeah,

5:07

not hugely familiar with the Von Erics story.

5:09

I mean vaguely familiar

5:13

just from you know living around here

5:15

and being a Somewhat

5:18

I guess fair weather Wrestling

5:22

watcher I would say I you know watch like one

5:24

thing a month you know like a one wwe

5:31

Monday Night Raw or maybe I'll flip in on a W every now

5:33

and then but really anticipated this

5:35

for a few different reasons

5:37

one as

5:40

a wrestling fan to

5:43

Because I am from Dallas so I

5:45

can watch this as just like a biopic I think if

5:47

you didn't even like wrestling I think you know most

5:49

people that probably saw this and recommended

5:52

it weren't general wrestling fans. They

5:54

probably just were looking for a good movie

5:56

and this has a sports

6:00

twist to it maybe. I

6:02

see a lot of sports movies that I'm not necessarily

6:04

into the sport per se that it's about, but I'll

6:06

go see it if it's got, I know, some kind

6:09

of sports edge. So Brian,

6:11

I think this would probably be a great

6:14

intro to wrestling for somebody. I

6:16

was thinking that as I was watching this. I

6:18

was like, man, if I wasn't into wrestling already,

6:21

or hadn't watched wrestling already, I probably

6:23

would after seeing this movie, just

6:26

because it just does

6:28

such an incredible job of

6:31

showing the commitment

6:33

that these people put themselves

6:35

through, and how it's passed

6:38

down from generation to generation.

6:41

And it's still going on

6:43

this way. There's still families

6:46

and people in high levels of

6:48

wrestling that are parts of families

6:50

that have passed

6:53

down this legacy, and

6:55

people put it all on the line to

6:58

reach the top of that business. And

7:01

they put their mind, heart, and soul,

7:04

and body, everything,

7:08

we love what they do to their bodies, and really appreciate

7:10

it. We really appreciate what they do to

7:13

their bodies. And

7:15

so, I mean this was, you can go so

7:17

many different ways with

7:21

these wrestling movies. I mean we've seen

7:23

all kinds of tones delivered with these

7:26

over the years, but I've

7:28

been waiting for one like this that

7:31

shows kind of what it's really like behind

7:34

the scenes, and

7:36

how gritty it is and real

7:39

it really is, how

7:41

it's real life for these people. And I

7:44

mean, this is just an absolutely heartbreaking film.

7:50

But at the same time, it's well

7:52

done, well acted, it's

7:54

entertaining in spots, it's educational.

7:58

I mean, this is... probably not going to

8:00

win Best Picture, but

8:03

it's like very

8:06

close to one of the best movies

8:08

of the year in my opinion. Yeah,

8:10

I mean when it comes

8:12

to kind of wrestling content, I would –

8:14

or things about – yeah, it is funny.

8:18

Having gone to it a few times at the

8:20

UK, it's like I always say, I'm not the

8:22

first to say it, but fake is not the

8:25

right word because you see these guys fall and

8:27

hit things. There's no way to fake. You can

8:29

pull some punches and stuff, but it's obviously

8:31

just like fixed, but it is really a

8:33

rough life on a lot of these guys

8:35

and they're like private

8:37

contractors and they're just driving

8:40

around the country even in modern times, much less in

8:42

the 80s, 70s and 80s. It's

8:45

brutal just

8:48

because the drug

8:50

use, the painkillers, the steroid abuse, all

8:52

these things. What's really fixed is like

8:54

– and to be

8:56

quite honest, I feel like is the – like, oh,

9:01

we're going to match these two wrestlers up together because

9:04

like they show in this movie, great.

9:07

What you never really think about is

9:09

anything can happen out there. Even

9:12

when you match these two guys, one guy can break

9:14

his leg and just doesn't get up and

9:16

the crowd turns on him and that's it, right?

9:20

Or the guy in this movie just

9:22

gets knocked out and they have to

9:24

disqualify him for some reason and it's

9:26

not what they can plan on. Things

9:29

do happen. I think they do a great job in this movie

9:31

of showing that. But it

9:34

is – regardless, it's a very

9:36

transient and trying and exhausting

9:38

and everything kind of

9:40

life for these dudes.

9:44

This shows that – well, I mean, the Mickey Rourke movie

9:46

did to an extent the kind of emotional toll of like

9:48

– Yes. That movie is more

9:50

– I feel like the wrestler is less about

9:53

like wrestling and more about like – you

9:55

know, that movie could have been like a fading

9:57

rock star. It's more about just being on the road and being –

10:00

being kind of detached from your life and

10:02

all the mistakes you've made kind of coming

10:04

back to hit you. But this

10:07

movie is more particularly around this era of

10:10

wrestling and this family and the crazy

10:12

thing and the kind of curse of

10:14

this family. You know, all these stories

10:17

have gone viral about, you

10:19

know, they actually had to like make this movie

10:21

less depressing to make it believable. So

10:23

it's actually the real story so much more sad

10:26

and would be like, you know, people would

10:28

be rolling their eyes like, oh, okay, Hollywood

10:30

comes in. So yeah, there's

10:32

some real tragedy around this family. Okay,

10:34

so tier one tragedy, the stuff around

10:38

this family, the kind

10:40

of lesser tragedy of this type

10:42

of entertainment going away and becoming

10:44

the corporateization of wrestling

10:47

and even UFC and things like that to

10:49

an extent later on that

10:51

this movie kind of predates. There's kind of two

10:54

sad stories happening here. The Wild West kind of

10:56

coming to an end and then this family's just

10:59

horrible turmoil and these

11:01

brothers and what they were

11:03

really trying to do. I mean, it's

11:06

a really interesting story. And yeah, in

11:08

two, it's a distinctly, you know, Dallas

11:10

kind of story too. And these are,

11:13

you always, I

11:15

think all three of us are

11:18

too young to know like to

11:20

have witnessed the Von Erics in their time, but

11:22

obviously kind of permeates the local legend. A lot

11:25

of, you know, you hear those names forever and

11:28

what that meant and these kind of schools of wrestling

11:30

in the Northeast, obviously you had the McMahons, which became

11:33

the dominant brand, but then you had like

11:35

the Tennessee stuff and you had the Texas

11:37

style and those kind of all became

11:40

small and big failed

11:42

brands that all consolidated eventually

11:44

into what is now the WWE. So

11:46

it's also like the story of

11:49

the origins of a multi-billion

11:51

dollar business. So one of

11:54

all of that, Brian, was

11:58

the most interesting to you. Yeah,

12:00

the I

12:03

think this movie does a Man,

12:06

there's so much stuff here because you're right that there's like

12:08

a there's a dozen

12:10

tragedies all rolled up into one year

12:12

and yet it's not a I give

12:15

a lot of credit to Durkin for making

12:17

this Appropriately

12:21

sad and and and somber and sobering

12:23

and all this or stuff but it

12:26

for the most of the time I didn't

12:28

feel like I Was

12:30

watching Tracy Jordan's hard to watch,

12:32

you know, we're not a man checker by the

12:35

sea. Sure. Yeah. Yeah, totally

12:37

I mean it's it's sad because this

12:39

is You just you

12:41

just rattled off a half dozen Awful

12:44

things, you know from from a

12:46

personal level on up to a court, you

12:48

know, like a full like global corporate level

12:50

so there's a lot going on

12:52

here that's tough and and but a I I

12:56

I Rarely felt like just full-on like depressed

12:59

or like I was just beaten down by

13:01

everything that was happening on screen It's all

13:03

very well done very handled very appropriately. I

13:05

feel I felt like I think this the

13:07

movie takes a pretty pretty

13:11

aggressive stance towards like just the telling the story

13:13

of the brothers and so that's that's the part

13:15

that I think I probably related to or Cared

13:19

about the most within this the father-son

13:21

thing is interesting to You

13:24

know, but I don't

13:27

know Fritz is such a such

13:29

an interesting historical figure and I don't

13:32

know a ton about him, but especially

13:34

as portrayed here in

13:36

this movie, it's like I

13:38

think for This

13:40

is not just certainly not unique to to

13:42

Texas. But like we we

13:45

all three surely

13:47

know many guys

13:50

many dads who are awful

13:53

parents, but who Actually

13:56

really do love their kids. They're just really

13:58

bad at it and who's Kids really love

14:00

them even though

14:02

their parents are abusive basically.

14:05

Then you factor in like the, like one

14:07

of the more like sweet

14:10

touching moments in this is Fritz

14:12

and the mom at the

14:14

wedding. I don't know how

14:16

many like kind of old school hard-aid

14:20

dudes I've been around in my life who

14:22

are that kind of person but also really

14:24

love their wives and are really kind of

14:27

sweet to their wives. It's just

14:29

an, I don't know, they got all of

14:31

these relationship dynamics done really well and you

14:33

guys know I love when relationships are explored

14:37

authentically in movies like this.

14:39

But yeah, the brother stuff is great and

14:41

then of course I'm not going to go

14:43

full into spoilers but it ends on that

14:45

note. You know, it really touches hard on

14:48

this concept and Kevin and his love

14:50

for his brothers and siblings and the

14:52

way that this all plays out. So

14:54

that was the part that I was

14:56

most affected by but you're totally right

14:59

that there's an

15:02

undercurrent of just, if

15:04

nothing else, you could have made this whole movie I

15:07

think about wrestling

15:09

and the families and the federations and

15:11

the territories and all this sort of

15:13

stuff and the way that that

15:16

was kind of destroyed. And maybe

15:18

for the better, I don't know, I don't really care because

15:20

I don't care about the wrestling side of it. There

15:23

are a lot of people who are left behind in the process

15:25

of making WWE, WWF,

15:28

AE, whatever else it's the thing

15:30

that it is. So

15:32

yeah, really complicated, really more

15:34

complex than I think I

15:36

expected coming into the movie and to be

15:39

able to keep

15:41

it focused while touching on all those things

15:43

is really very impressive to me. Yeah,

15:46

I mean to play on

15:48

this family dynamic that's super complicated.

15:51

I mean it

15:53

really is to even attempt to make a

15:56

movie about this family is a huge

15:58

undertaking. then for Durkin to

16:01

say, no, I'm going to not only do

16:03

that, but I'm going to kind of tell

16:05

this story of this era of wrestling. So

16:08

well through the

16:10

ESPN stuff, I thought was great.

16:13

How they started syndicating stuff on

16:15

ESPN and how that helped them

16:17

become to the levels they needed

16:19

to become on. Right. Yeah,

16:22

so it kind of had this air

16:25

quality, the movie air that we watched

16:27

around this time last year to it,

16:31

but also had this real

16:33

sincerity to the family story.

16:36

And then you have the character, real literal

16:39

character in the movie of Rick Flair, who

16:41

just shows what

16:44

the peak of that profession was

16:46

from a personality showmanship

16:48

standpoint. And then you have

16:51

this character that Zac Efron, I

16:53

think plays great in Kevin Von

16:55

Eric, who

16:57

is not super charismatic, but

17:00

has all the right intentions. So how is

17:02

he going to overcome this guy

17:04

and Rick Flair and the biggest stage, you

17:06

know, in this biggest moment, all this type

17:08

of stuff. What

17:11

did you think if he

17:13

were to rank the brothers

17:15

performances, how would you rank them?

17:18

Because I have my own ranking. I

17:22

think that two things can be true of Zac

17:24

Efron. I think that he I think

17:27

that it is fair to say that he

17:29

is probably that he's a fairly limited actor

17:32

in terms of what his range is and what he

17:34

is capable of doing.

17:37

And also that he was very, very good in

17:39

this. I think if you were

17:41

to to me, if you were to put up

17:44

the you were to put side by

17:46

side, the

17:48

ability of Zac

17:50

Efron versus Jeremy

17:52

Allen White, it's

17:55

not I don't I don't I don't think it's

17:57

particularly close. I think Jeremy Allen White is. And

18:00

part of this is just how much I love

18:02

The Bear, but I think that guy is like

18:04

truly can be a great actor like has Oscar

18:07

potential at some point in his in his future.

18:09

I Think that

18:11

the Efron performance is probably better in

18:13

this but though part of that is

18:15

just he is the focus of the

18:17

movie and and and you

18:21

know Carrie Bonnerick

18:23

doesn't even come in until almost halfway through a

18:25

movie and So it is

18:27

told a lot through Kevin's eyes and so that it's

18:29

maybe it's easier to focus but we've seen how many

18:31

how many hundreds and thousands

18:34

of times have we watched a movie wherein a

18:38

Supporting performance is like the best one in the movie kind

18:40

of steals the show or whatever I didn't actually feel like

18:43

it was still yeah, I'm giving it to Efron.

18:45

I still would have a lot of stock in

18:49

Jeremy Allen White's career. I think he's freaking

18:51

out great But I the

18:53

emotional center of this movie is Kevin

18:56

and I think that Efron plays

18:58

that very very well Yeah,

19:01

he's great. I love Cheating

19:03

answer a little more attorney in this she's awesome.

19:05

She is great and Memorial's

19:07

will James is gonna continue to be better

19:09

and everything than she has to be forever

19:11

I think I always forget about her becoming

19:13

one of my favorite picks cool stuff Oh

19:17

since Cinderella which could have been awful. We

19:19

always give all the credit to friend on

19:21

that But like she's just always good. Yeah, it

19:23

feels like yeah like

19:27

Like leading Marvel movies, but she's doing

19:29

like second. Yeah, third leads in movies

19:31

like this, which is awesome. Yeah I've

19:33

had really good taste. Yes. Yeah,

19:36

she's she like I

19:38

need to start remembering that she's one of my favorites

19:40

because I'm always I'm

19:43

always like who was that? They were great.

19:45

Oh, yeah I couldn't believe she didn't she

19:47

didn't win the Emmy for the Pam Anderson

19:49

role. Did she I know that

19:51

was it I'm a little evil. I like that. She's

19:53

like I Don't know. She's

19:55

doing like the best version of an Amy Adams ever

19:58

or she's just gonna do weird cool stuff stuff but

20:00

like it's all good and doesn't ever

20:02

seem like she's swinging too hard for an

20:04

award but like she's great and everything. Totally

20:08

agree yeah it was cool to see her pop up

20:10

in this had no no idea I I

20:13

think Harris Dickinson was incredible in this.

20:15

I was like who is this guy

20:17

like I was yeah cuz I was

20:19

expecting you know Jeremy Allen White Zac

20:22

Efron to do their thing and this

20:24

guy came came out of nowhere for

20:26

me and I'm gonna be

20:28

watching him from now on. Yeah

20:31

fantastic. I was unfamiliar with his game.

20:33

I was trying to

20:35

think what I'd even seen

20:38

him in. I

20:40

had seen him in the

20:44

triangle of sadness yeah

20:46

last year. That's

20:48

right that's right the

20:50

yeah oh

20:52

you mean the criteria collection triangles.

20:54

Yes Reuben Hostland triangle of

20:57

sadness. The weirdest

20:59

criteria number. Yeah he's he's he

21:01

definitely holds his own there. Yeah

21:03

I think there's something to your point Brian of like Zac

21:06

Efron is you know a very

21:08

like always has been

21:10

like a attractive you

21:13

know other than his kind

21:15

of height built in a lab leading

21:17

man since he was 12 but

21:20

he's always lacked a certain

21:22

charisma I think naturally. That's

21:24

the failure of other than just

21:27

being pieces of crap but movies like Baywatch and

21:29

things like that even Neighbors to an extent but

21:32

that's the point of this character is a little

21:34

he's a little just

21:37

raw and not as not

21:40

charisma list but not the Rick Flair's

21:42

of the world and was a really incredible

21:46

in-ring performer and it's great that Zac Efron

21:48

took that part really seriously and like brought

21:50

that level that road ground of the character

21:53

of like some of those scenes so much

21:55

of that emotional torment

21:58

and story of that character. was told in the

22:00

ring, you know, in a cool way. Sure.

22:04

Yeah. Yeah, I think it's really hard. I

22:06

agree with you. I thought he was awesomeness and I would

22:08

love for him to get at least nominated for

22:10

something because I think he, I don't

22:12

think he'll have a lot of swings at it to your point like

22:14

Jeremy on Lightwill. Yeah. And

22:17

this one just the socket

22:19

fit the bolt really well on this and

22:21

it just made for a really, really cool

22:23

performance. I wouldn't say I'm

22:25

like so excited for what he does next because I do

22:27

think he's pretty limited. But yeah.

22:29

He feels great and he deserves all the credit for it.

22:32

Non irony. Sure. Yeah.

22:35

Don't I make it in Dirty Grandpa 2 or? I

22:39

like that. I mean, I do too. I'm just

22:41

joking. He seems like he's a fun guy. He

22:44

seems to get, I don't

22:46

know, he doesn't seem to have a lot of pretension

22:48

about him more than any, you know, generally what we

22:51

get with most actors and stuff. He seems to kind

22:53

of be cool about

22:55

his place within

22:58

the industry and whatnot. So it's

23:00

all good. I

23:03

do like when we reward

23:05

somebody for, I don't know

23:07

if you want to call it catching lighting or bottle

23:09

or just being the right person for the right role

23:11

or whatever it is. Like I like when, if

23:14

something like this gets an Oscar nomination that makes me

23:16

pumped. I like that. I

23:18

think it's a good thing to have rather

23:20

than, I think there's a place where the

23:22

career Oscar, the career Oscar nomination and there's a

23:24

place for like, hey man, this guy did a

23:27

really freaking great performance and we may not see

23:29

that again. So let's, what can we do about

23:31

that? Definitely. I

23:35

don't want to ask this in a way that insinuates like, what

23:39

was the point of this movie? Meaning, was

23:43

it to bring awareness to the story? Was

23:45

it just to show the human kind of

23:48

the triumph of some level

23:50

of overtook, hey, triumph of

23:52

a tragedy kit. But

23:55

there's something to, you

23:57

know, I was trying to think like this is done with.

24:00

out real, which always makes

24:02

it very good because it's not super mission

24:04

oriented, which some movies get lost in that.

24:08

You kind of think, what is this movie trying to say?

24:10

Is this just trying to teach me about this world and

24:14

build this empathy for these

24:16

characters? Or do you think it

24:18

has something larger to say about the

24:21

greater notion of entertainment and humanity and all

24:23

these things? I'm still kind of confused on

24:25

that, which is cool. I think that's cool

24:27

if that's a little bit nebulous. I

24:30

kind of felt that while I was watching the movie.

24:33

That's not something that I necessarily always am thinking

24:35

about. What is the point of this? What's the

24:37

purpose? Whatever. It was something that came up

24:39

in this while watching this. That's

24:41

maybe partially.

24:44

Partly. Wow. Partially

24:46

just kind of the byproduct of

24:48

a biopic and whatnot. I

24:52

feel like it all came together in the last

24:54

shot. Just

24:57

fully going to spoilers and stuff. Kevin

25:00

sitting with his sons and his kids saying, well,

25:03

we'll be your brothers now. And

25:05

then it cuts to a

25:07

shot of Kevin and,

25:11

oh, I've lost his wife's name.

25:13

Sorry. The Willie James character. It

25:15

cuts to Kevin and his wife. And

25:18

here's a picture of their kids and

25:20

their grandkids. Pam. Thank

25:23

you, Pam. And this beautiful Hawaiian estate

25:26

that they live on or ranch

25:28

or whatever. And it was like a really beautiful,

25:32

touching example, I

25:34

think, of human spirit triumphs and all

25:37

that kind of cheesy stuff. But

25:39

in a really authentic, genuine,

25:41

effective kind of way. This

25:44

is a person who thought that he was cursed. And

25:47

that his family was cursed. And he ends

25:49

up with four kids and 11

25:51

grandkids and they all live together. And obviously they have,

25:54

I'm sure they have their own strife

25:56

and whatnot that everybody has, but it's, that's

25:59

such a huge victory. given

26:02

what followed this person around for his entire

26:04

life and what followed his dad around for

26:06

his entire life. Yeah,

26:08

and how he emphasized to

26:11

his kid is kind of heartbreaking how he wanted

26:14

him to be Adkisson because he didn't want Eric,

26:16

his name. I

26:18

mean, that's tough.

26:22

I think it's about, I mean, I think

26:24

it's about family, really. I

26:27

think Jeremy Allen White's in kind of an

26:29

unfortunate position to play the role he is

26:32

just because of the way it's written. And

26:35

he has the moment

26:37

with Fritz and him where it's like, son,

26:41

I want you to join the family business and

26:43

be a wrestler now. Like, that was kind of

26:46

wrong kid died kind of vibe. I don't

26:48

know. That's just how it was directed

26:50

or whatever. And then the

26:52

scene where he goes and meets his brothers at

26:54

the end to get real spoilery, also

26:57

kind of tough for him. How do you do

26:59

that scene? All right, now you're in the afterlife

27:01

and you're going to hang out with your bros.

27:05

It was tough, but I thought the way Zach

27:07

played that of going

27:09

to discover him or whatever was real

27:11

tough. I mean, gosh.

27:13

Yeah, for sure. Why

27:16

didn't he, why you leave him alone and all that?

27:18

I mean, gosh. Right. It was

27:22

bad. Bad in terms of

27:24

like a bad situation, not a bad movie. Right. Right.

27:27

Yeah. That's harrowing, always.

27:32

It is such an interesting kind of,

27:34

the way, the reason it's cinematic is

27:36

kind of the similar ways that like

27:38

mafia movies are cinematic. It's

27:41

just, it has this kind of, you know,

27:44

mafia is true outlaw culture by definition

27:46

a lot of times, but this has

27:48

this kind of outlaw

27:50

adjacent culture. This era, particularly

27:54

of wrestling, it's kind of just outside

27:56

the margins of polite society. It's this

27:58

particularly kind of Southern thing too. at

28:00

the time, at least

28:02

this version of it. And

28:04

there's a real, there's

28:06

a real culture around it and a real paint

28:09

those for these characters to be in. And

28:11

like, right, Kent, when you talk about, you

28:14

know, the shake, the chic or Rick

28:16

Flair appearing in this, think

28:18

about what the difference

28:20

that the, like those guys saw in

28:23

this kind of, you know,

28:25

barroom brawl, backyards, portatory of business versus, you

28:27

know, the WrestleMania you and I went to

28:29

in 2016 at Jerry World. I

28:32

mean, it's an unbelievably

28:34

interesting transition

28:36

of the medium that this

28:39

at least tells some version of the story

28:42

of. And I think that's really interesting outside

28:44

the tragedy. It's like they

28:46

all kind of those, you know, the

28:50

first character and the McMahons

28:52

of the world, the people that are running these wrestling

28:55

promotions really

28:57

were visionaries, but

28:59

only kind of one person ever got to see the vision

29:01

fully come to fruition.

29:03

Yeah. It makes for very sort

29:05

of tragic, obviously,

29:10

in this case, literal characters.

29:12

And I think a little bit of

29:14

the point might be that

29:16

even in the world of professional

29:19

wrestling, the most dramatic

29:21

things happen outside of the ring.

29:23

Oh, yeah. You would think that

29:27

the most you would

29:29

leave talking about something that happened in the

29:31

match, right? But it's all the stuff outside

29:33

of that. That's just like, wow, I mean,

29:35

how can that happen?

29:37

And it does not surprise me that

29:40

they had to take some stuff out because, you

29:44

know, I understand the story is crazy. Yeah,

29:46

the soundtrack was great. You

29:48

know, the Blue Oyster cult, I thought

29:50

the Rush drop was good, which that

29:52

song can be overdone if

29:54

not used correctly, but it was awesome

29:57

in this. And then the song...

29:59

that the Arcade Fire guy wrote for

30:02

the- For the- He did

30:04

the whole score. Score was great. Yeah, the

30:06

one that they play, I guess, a couple

30:08

times. But yeah, I

30:10

thought the whole vibe was very

30:13

well done. Great vision for Durkin

30:15

here. And

30:18

what he wanted this to be and what

30:21

he wanted the tone to be. Because it is, it's

30:23

a really sensitive topic

30:25

and you can really screw this up

30:27

or be disrespectful or

30:30

be too wrestling with

30:32

it. So,

30:35

I don't know. I thought he did a really

30:39

good job of not going full Aronofsky.

30:42

Where he really could have with this story. Totally.

30:45

Yeah. And he kind of

30:47

operates in that world. I mean, that Dead Ringer

30:49

show was kind of the could

30:52

be Aronofsky. Yes, I hope he stays on this

30:54

side of the not

30:56

being insufferable portion of things.

30:59

I'm very, very interested in his next movie. Like what

31:02

comes next for Durkin? Yeah,

31:04

likewise. Absolutely. Where

31:07

do you think, I

31:09

mean, do you think that Jeremy Allen Weiss is

31:12

gonna, he won the globe this

31:14

week, again, for the second time in a row for

31:16

the season two of The Bear. So,

31:19

if they make 10 seasons of The Bear, it's gonna

31:21

be like Frasier, where he's just gonna win at every

31:23

single year, the Big Bang Theory or whatever it is,

31:25

you know. I

31:27

don't know if the globe matters much. I

31:29

mean, it's a fun, it's like back weirdly, but

31:32

I think people will. I

31:34

mean, I think he'll always be the guy from movie

31:36

43, right, Brian? That

31:41

is what I think of him as, obviously. So

31:44

it's, but it's, you know, look, it's

31:47

nice to show that you have some range, right? And

31:51

do some different things. Yeah.

31:55

The shameless and movie 43. Brian,

31:59

how does... Does the bear make up for those and

32:01

this man? Does that make up for, or is he still

32:03

negative in your life? That's how good season two of the

32:05

bear is. It makes up for those sins. Yeah.

32:11

I love the bear so much. I re-watched

32:14

the bear season two right towards

32:16

the end of the year. I

32:19

don't know, because I just hadn't been sad enough.

32:23

It's so funny. You didn't feel anxious? Yeah.

32:26

Yeah. It's great. I

32:30

mean, I think Io

32:34

and Karmie are great, but I

32:36

think Richie's better, and he's the only one

32:38

that didn't win last night. For

32:40

some succession, man. Yeah. You're

32:43

going to stop haunting us. You're going to come back every year. It

32:48

was funny that Jeremy Strong didn't win, though. That's the great part

32:50

of it. That's, yeah.

32:52

It plays in perfectly. It

32:54

should be a thing where if you don't show up, you can't

32:56

win. Your

32:59

auto-disqualified have to be present to

33:01

win, just like a sweepstakes at

33:04

the state fair. Or at least do a

33:06

great bit in your video. Yeah.

33:08

There you go. Or you're Anthony Hopkins.

33:11

You get a pass if you're Anthony Hopkins. Yeah. If

33:14

you're over 80, you went over 80, and you lived

33:16

like nine times away. Like, you can't. That's

33:18

totally fair. It would have been stupid for him to be

33:20

there. I love the concept of

33:22

Anthony Hopkins not knowing that he won

33:24

an Oscar until eight or 12 hours

33:27

later when he wakes up. That

33:29

makes me very happy. I don't know why. It's just funny

33:31

to me. Wait. He's

33:33

the best. And then he

33:35

won the Oscar for whatever Transformer movie he was

33:37

in. That's the shocking part about it. How

33:40

did they do this? How did they do the Sportatorium? Did

33:43

you guys look into how they shot this

33:45

or anything? I did not. No. I

33:48

mean, that was – man. I can't believe we

33:50

– I mean, it was all the 80s Dallas sky.

33:52

I'm sure it was CG, but it

33:55

looked great. And I mean,

33:57

this movie didn't – The shot is nuts.

34:00

But yeah, they shot it

34:03

in a furniture store It

34:05

was a furniture store and I think in

34:08

Baton Rouge or somewhere in Louisiana. I know

34:10

they made yeah, they made it in Louisiana

34:12

Oh, probably probably New Orleans. Yeah, it's a

34:14

converted 15

34:18

million this whole movie cost I mean it

34:20

looks it looks daily good for that. Yeah,

34:22

but it was yeah it does I know Now

34:25

we just need to make our movie with the iconic

34:27

Bronco Bowl movie and we can

34:29

honor all the Hahahaha, there's

34:32

a there's a Dallas venue and That's

34:36

iconic. You know Bronco Bowl t-shirt. They

34:38

didn't really have the Texas Stadium like

34:41

Epic shot that I thought they would have maybe they didn't have the

34:43

budget for that you know because they tease

34:45

that like that's where the The flare

34:47

fight occurs and there's not really like the

34:49

big How we're

34:52

showing Texas Stadium, you know, I would

34:54

have cost a lot to recreate. I'm sure That

34:57

would have been cool to see though. Yeah. Yeah,

35:00

somebody needs to do it. We need a Garth Brooks

35:04

Stadium tour movie. I

35:06

pulled up the sportatoriums Wikipedia Although

35:11

it had a reputation for being

35:13

uncomfortable and unsanitary having inadequate heating

35:15

and cooling facilities road infestation problems

35:17

But I was apparently a large

35:19

chamber or pit in the foundation

35:21

The Dallas sportatorium is nonetheless still

35:24

remembered fondly for its intimate atmosphere

35:26

and is considered one of pro

35:28

wrestling's most legendary Wow

35:31

Absolutely. That's just spot-on. I love

35:33

it. That's awesome. The Bronco Bowl

35:35

by the way would be remote

35:38

real estate now they got like Right

35:41

in the middle of Kessler there. Oh, yeah.

35:43

Yeah reading

35:45

arena to Yeah

35:48

For sure class. All right. Should we grade this bad

35:50

boy out? Yeah I'll

35:53

go to you Kent first. What do you give this? Man,

35:56

it's right between an A and an A plus one of

35:58

the best movies I've seen this this

36:01

year, I'm gonna give it an A.

36:05

What about you, Richard? I'm gonna

36:07

go A as well, yeah. I'm gonna go A as

36:09

well. Right below an A

36:11

plus for me now, I need to rewatch it, but

36:14

I like to quite a bit. Definitely, yeah, it'll be in my top

36:16

10 of the year, for sure. Bryce?

36:20

A plus for me. It's a, probably

36:22

gonna end up somewhere in the four

36:25

to six range, maybe, this year, unless

36:27

something really jumps out over the next couple of weeks.

36:30

Here's the big question, though. Will

36:32

this make you watch wrestling? No.

36:36

Brian, you need to go, we need to hook you up. You

36:39

gotta go in person one time, just to see the... Okay,

36:41

Simmons, easy, buddy. No, not that, it's not

36:44

that you get something different out of it.

36:47

You actually would get a kick out of the level

36:49

of the production in person. Yeah. I'm

36:51

sure I would. I'm sure that it would be like, I'm glad

36:53

I win. I would be like, man, this is so cool, and

36:56

then I would go home and never watch him again.

36:58

And that's the right reaction, and that's fine. I just

37:00

mean, I actually do, if tickets ever happen in your

37:02

life, even for like a Monday Night Raw

37:04

or something, you should go, because you'll be like, whoa,

37:06

this all goes in a... That's what was my thing,

37:08

it was like, they put this in a truck tonight

37:11

and drive it somewhere else, that's wild. Solid

37:16

A, A plus, and A, all right. Do

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38:12

get started. That was

38:14

fun. That was a fun little surprise one. Great

38:16

conversation. Great little movie and

38:19

excited to see more from

38:21

Durkin. Alright let's hit him with a

38:23

weekly... I'm gonna give you a book.

38:25

I've been super busy this

38:28

last week. I

38:30

haven't had as

38:34

much time to listen

38:39

to watch whatever anything new

38:42

but I there's a book called

38:44

that I really love called the book of lost things.

38:46

It came out in 2008. I read it

38:53

I read this maybe five or six years ago and I

38:55

really love that it's on my like

38:58

the book recommendation note

39:01

that I keep in my phone for when people are looking

39:03

for something. The sequel just

39:05

came out last fall. I haven't had a chance

39:07

to read it yet but it's it'll be my

39:09

next book. I'm doing a so

39:12

I'm doing a re-listen a reread of

39:14

this book and it's

39:16

really it's really great and really sweet

39:19

and touching. It's kind of like it's sort of

39:21

fantasy. It's kind of like it has like

39:23

some Alice in Wonderland kind

39:25

of hints to it

39:28

and not totally dissimilar

39:31

to the hike that Drew McGarry wrote

39:34

that I love. Another one of my favorite books

39:36

that I think I made. Jane McGarry. One

39:43

of the patron saints of this podcast. Yeah

39:45

the book of lost things by John Connelly

39:48

is the title. The sequel

39:50

is called the land of lost things. I haven't

39:52

gotten to that yet but I will soon but

39:54

it mostly focuses on a like an English

39:57

boy in I think probably his

40:00

Is like pre-teen early teenage years

40:03

during her chill the

40:05

the early days of World War two

40:09

and he he ends up getting kind of lost

40:11

in a Lot his mother

40:13

dies he ends up in a lost world Trying

40:16

to kind of find his way home It's very very

40:18

sweet touching and very well written so and I'm excited

40:20

to read the sequel after I finish this one So

40:22

book of lost things John Connelly Awesome

40:25

kit what you got for us? Yeah,

40:28

I'll recommend a documentary that

40:30

I watched on HBO called

40:33

y2k time bomb And

40:37

this was just somebody

40:39

edited together Looks

40:43

like just news footage from around

40:46

the time of y2k about

40:48

people preparing for the y2k Event

40:52

and it's pretty hilarious to

40:54

go back and and watch

40:57

So check that out y2k Documentary

41:00

on HBO or max or whatever it's

41:02

called I'm

41:05

gonna keep it alive Alright

41:08

I'm gonna go with a

41:10

movie. I don't know if you've heard of it Kind

41:14

of a little indie but I just watched

41:16

over the last couple weeks come get ready for something else.

41:18

Um, the Maltese Falcon Sweet

41:22

so I don't know which version is like 10

41:26

the Cut but the Recurating

41:29

that because there's a show coming out here

41:31

in about a month. Have you guys heard

41:34

about Monsieur? Monsieur spade No,

41:37

so it is a sequel David

41:39

spade remaking. Yeah in front of

41:41

Falcon. Yeah, it's Bogart

41:51

Joe dirt me just doesn't You

41:56

have all the actors that you could

41:58

cast to lead a multi and I love

42:00

Spade. It's

42:05

just the randomness of that makes

42:07

me laugh. But go ahead. So

42:10

the lead character of all these acts is

42:12

Sam Spade, the detective

42:14

and the – he has –

42:17

after the movie, he's retired to France. And

42:20

there's this new show coming out about that. It's Clive

42:22

Owens playing the Bogart part, and

42:24

I'm very excited for it because it's the writer of

42:26

Logan and the writer of Out of Sight, Scott Frank,

42:28

created it with Barry Levinson and some people. So I

42:30

think it's going to be a cool show, kind

42:34

of a Perry Mason type thing, but

42:37

in France, so

42:40

that'll be cool. So I'm excited for this.

42:42

It's on AMC, which

42:45

no one I don't think has anymore, so we'll see.

42:47

But yeah. So if

42:49

you're going to watch this show, I think it's going to be a cool show.

42:52

Watch the movie. It's a great classic movie with

42:54

a great classic character, and Sam

42:56

Spade's an all-timer. So yeah, Maltese Falcon

42:58

and M.O.S.S. Spade coming out soon. If

43:01

it's bad, the movie's great. The television

43:03

show's bad. I will be

43:05

surprised, but I take no ownership of that, but at least get ready

43:07

to – Did

43:09

you read that New Yorker piece of Scott Frank? No.

43:13

It just came out – it came out – it

43:16

came out on Christmas, so probably fell under the radar

43:18

for most people. So

43:20

fascinating. Really? He

43:23

has basically written so many movies that

43:26

he never takes credit for, but he

43:28

just gets paid so

43:30

much to not take credit. 300K

43:32

a week. Dang. That

43:35

he makes to just

43:37

like, you know – oh yeah, I'll

43:40

read your scripts and tweak it or

43:42

whatever. Interesting. But I'm

43:44

texting you guys the

43:46

link to it, but it's a New Yorker piece

43:50

about Scott Frank. It's incredible. Queen's Gambit

43:52

was great, so – Yeah,

43:54

Queen's Gambit is his big kind of

43:57

masterpiece, but he

43:59

– He has done so

44:02

much stuff that you would never know. He

44:04

ever did. Never did. Legend.

44:07

I loved his first movie. The

44:10

look out that the Joseph Gordon Lovett movie. Yeah.

44:13

It's really good. I rewatched that randomly, like fairly

44:15

recently. I mean, this is solid. It's good work.

44:18

Yeah, he's good. So

44:21

we will... We shall see. We

44:23

shall see what comes to the show. But that's a

44:25

great movie and great place to crown yourself. And also

44:27

if you're like listening to this show because you're getting

44:29

into movies and stuff, you know, throw a few classics

44:31

in there. It helps. All right. Well,

44:33

we've got some great stuff coming out. And the main feed

44:35

is we kind of catch up on like with the Iron

44:37

Claw, all the Oscar contenders that came out at the end

44:39

of the year in 2023. We have

44:42

some great things coming in 2024 as well. And

44:45

on the VIP feed, we have

44:47

some great bonus episodes and retrospectives

44:49

and things coming in the coming

44:51

year as well. And in about 20 something

44:53

days, guys, we'll be celebrating 11

44:56

years together, growing down here with

44:58

the MAMFAM. So thanks

45:01

for being with us all this time,

45:03

folks. Check us out at madaboutmovies.com. Check

45:05

out the VIP at madaboutmovies.com

45:07

and madaboutmoviespodcast.com. And

45:10

madaboutmoviespodcast.com/VIP for some bonus episodes

45:12

and the Discord full of

45:14

listeners like you. Until

45:17

then, we will see you at the show. Hey,

45:19

baby, I hear the blues are calling. Talked

45:21

about Earth and Scramble day.

45:26

And maybe I seem a bit confused. Yeah,

45:28

maybe. But I got you,

45:30

Peg. But

45:33

I don't know what to do with those tall

45:35

salads and scrambled eggs.

45:40

They're calling again. Scrambled

45:43

eggs all over my face. They're

45:47

making me I got. Scrambled

45:49

eggs all over my

45:51

face. They're

45:54

calling again. I

45:57

can't see how I love this. you