0:01

What

0:03

are you prepared to do? I'm

0:06

revengeful. Your powers

0:08

only make me stronger. So

0:10

you can't be matched. Can't

0:14

be controlled. I'm asking

0:19

for

0:19

one last fight.

0:21

Da da da da da da da daaaaaaaaaaa!

0:24

You sound insane. You

0:26

guys act like it's a whole

0:28

world gone crazy! It is

0:31

seriously in June! It's

0:33

showtime. Let's play. Let's play.

0:35

It is probably the third

0:38

Marvel movie of the year of our Lord 2023.

0:40

We tried to look it up in both

0:44

Wikipedia and ChappieTee, which is like

0:47

question marks back there. We honestly

0:49

don't know. It's a real Mulroney

0:52

situation here. Who

0:55

could know? Who could know? It's the Marvels.

0:58

It is, I don't know what phase of the MCU,

1:00

I don't know what number of movie

1:02

and or

1:03

series this is. And maybe

1:05

that's part of the problem. But

1:08

it is a new Marvel movie here, a

1:10

new installment in the MCU, the

1:12

Marvels. And we

1:14

here at Mad Men Movies, we're here to talk about it. So I'm

1:16

your host, Brian Gill, joined as always by my

1:19

illustrious co-hosts, Kent Garrison and Richard

1:21

Barton. We are recording

1:24

a day late and our whole show is

1:28

on the struggle bus. We're having health

1:30

issues and addiction

1:33

issues, a whole lot of weird stuff going

1:35

on here. But we're so glad to be here.

1:37

It's always a fun, it's always an event when you

1:39

get to talk about a Marvel movie, although it's becoming

1:41

less of an event. So I'm excited to

1:43

talk this one out with you boys.

1:45

We're going to get right into it. Let's get right

1:47

into general. No banter, no fooling around

1:50

here. Kent, I'm going to go

1:52

to you first. Give me your

1:54

general thoughts on

1:56

the Marvels. And while you're doing that, I will look

1:58

up and see

1:59

what number this is. in the series and all that good

2:01

stuff.

2:04

Give me your kind of your overall thoughts and whatnot

2:07

on this installment of

2:10

the Captain Marvel universe. Yeah

2:12

overall have really liked Marvel

2:14

movies. I can count on one hand the

2:16

ones I

2:17

disliked and

2:19

whereas with DC I can count on one hand the ones

2:21

I've liked. So they

2:24

got that going for them. You know they're in a really

2:26

interesting spot right now. This

2:28

movie was announced four

2:32

years ago

2:33

and it's just now coming out. So

2:35

I feel like we've been talking about this one ever

2:38

since Captain Marvel came out and

2:40

it's taken a while. Granted some things have

2:42

happened. Some things have been pushed around, shifted

2:45

around but here

2:47

we are

2:49

and I think we got

2:51

to address the elephant in the room right

2:53

off the top Brian. This is the lowest

2:55

grossing

2:57

MCU movie for an opening

2:59

weekend.

3:00

So I don't know what to make of that.

3:02

I'm sure that'll be a big part of this discussion

3:04

about what that means, why that

3:07

is but

3:09

if I'm separating the context of

3:11

that and just talking about this as

3:13

a movie

3:15

it was fine. It's exactly

3:17

what they've been doing you know. It's right

3:20

up there with the Thor love

3:22

and thunders and the ant-man's

3:24

and the Wanda visions

3:27

that we talked about all that stuff. I

3:29

think the level

3:31

of quality you expect with

3:33

a theatrical movie is

3:36

a lot higher than what we expect

3:38

with the Disney Plus series but

3:40

they blurred the line between

3:43

the Disney Plus series and the

3:46

cinematic stuff that there really is no separation

3:49

anymore. I don't know whether I'm happy

3:51

about that or not. I don't know if

3:53

I want an elevated experience when I go to the

3:55

theater versus when I'm watching

3:57

at home or...

3:59

If I can just watch this, because I could have just watched this at

4:02

home, right? I mean I did go to the

4:04

theater, but it doesn't feel like they're doing

4:06

much more, putting much more

4:08

money and effort into the movies

4:11

than they are the series. And I don't know whether that's,

4:13

again, a good or a bad thing for the product.

4:18

But

4:19

like this cast, like Brie Larson,

4:22

she's certainly in the top three

4:24

or four characters that they have at this point,

4:28

which will be a part of this discussion

4:30

too, is who are the linchpin characters

4:32

of the MCU at this point in 2023. And

4:35

I would probably count her among

4:37

those. It's just –

4:39

as I pass it back to you, Brian, it's crazy to

4:41

think that Captain

4:44

Marvel made what, a billion dollars?

4:47

And this,

4:48

with all the hype and promotion

4:51

for four years, is

4:54

the lowest grossing one. I just – I never

4:56

would have expected that.

4:59

There's no drop-off. It's not like it went from two

5:01

to three to four, and then it's like, oh, by four,

5:03

it's like, yeah, it really dropped off. It's like immediate.

5:06

Billion dollars and then completely

5:08

dead.

5:11

I think that that is indicative

5:13

of the

5:15

industry as a whole. It's

5:18

not just – like, there

5:21

are ancillary factors in the

5:23

Marvels doing poorly at the

5:25

box office. There's lots of – I think there's

5:27

lots of little factors, but

5:31

to your point, like, it made – the last one made a billion,

5:34

and that was not that long ago. I

5:38

mean, I know it's a completely new world than what

5:40

we're in, but that was 2019. I mean, it's

5:43

four years ago, and

5:45

this is the returns that we're getting

5:47

on that. I mean, I think that – I don't

5:50

know. There's some criticism that we can level at

5:52

Disney proper, and we will. There's

5:55

some criticism that we

5:57

can level at Disney. you

6:00

know, comic book movies, superhero movies, all that

6:02

kind of stuff. All those things are valid and

6:04

play a part in it. I think there's

6:06

a big chunk of it too that's just that like the world

6:09

has changed and

6:11

it's gonna be a minute.

6:13

I think we're usually, and then I'm gonna turn it over to you Richard, I

6:15

wanna talk business with you on this stuff. I

6:17

think we are usually pretty harsh

6:20

towards the industry

6:22

because it changes so slowly

6:24

and poorly and like continually learns

6:26

the wrong lessons and all this sort of stuff. I

6:29

do think that we're gonna have to be

6:32

somewhat forgiving of the industry

6:34

for a bit here because

6:37

up to 2023, their

6:41

whole industry is built on these

6:43

movies and now they cannot be

6:45

that way. And there are some of these movies

6:48

across the, not just Marvel but DC

6:50

and wherever else, will get scrapped because

6:53

if the money's not there to be made, then they're

6:55

gonna get rid of some of these things. But some of these movies

6:57

are gonna come out and they're not gonna do as well as

7:01

they would have three or four years ago. And

7:03

I think we're gonna have to have a little bit of grace

7:06

with the studios and just be like, yeah.

7:10

You green lit that, you put it even

7:12

into production on some level when that

7:15

was obviously the smart thing to do and now

7:17

it's not. So there's gonna be a little bit of

7:19

that. But Richard, where are you at with

7:22

the financial side of the business

7:24

side of superhero movies

7:26

in general and then maybe a little more specifically

7:29

with the Marvel movies? Yeah, I think

7:32

there's a lot of factors, right? It's like

7:35

they're inherently

7:37

cheapened.

7:38

Eventually we would have picked Critical Mass

7:40

with these at

7:43

some point, right? Now they

7:45

did some things so I think expedite that. First

7:47

of all, I think we really undervalue

7:50

two

7:52

movie nerds or comic book nerds

7:54

or culture nerds to some extent.

7:57

We understand that these kind of things are iterative.

7:59

and there's multi-versus and there's

8:04

ways to continue these things on for, you

8:07

know, in the, literally for the

8:09

interest of shareholders of Disney, as long as

8:11

they can feasibly go on. What

8:15

made Marvel interesting for 10 years is

8:17

that it had that appeal and satisfied

8:20

those movie and comic book nerds

8:22

and just kind of mass culture nerds, but

8:25

also satisfied this really mass audience that doesn't

8:27

think like that and doesn't, that's how you have a,

8:29

that's the difference between a $300 million movie and

8:31

a $2 billion movie is like those people, right?

8:34

To those people, that ended in

8:36

Endgame. Like that, the whole thing

8:39

ended in Endgame. And so I think

8:40

they really undervalued to that

8:43

audience what that meant and it's like, you kind

8:45

of have to start over again, you know,

8:46

with a large

8:49

swath of that audience and build

8:51

the narrative that people care about because what

8:53

the Marvel movies really became in terms of how

8:55

people thought of it was like event television. Now

8:57

you had to drive somewhere and go see it, but

9:00

it felt like every six episodes,

9:02

every six months, rather, there's one episode of this

9:04

show we're all watching and we're all gonna go see it and there's

9:07

great effects and there's movie stars and they're fun

9:10

and there's this,

9:11

you know, these kind of intricate

9:13

small stories per episode, but there's also

9:15

this other bigger narrative that I wanna see

9:17

how it plays out. So to an audience,

9:20

it feels just like watching like Breaking Bad, just

9:22

at a bigger scale and then I have to get my car for

9:24

seven minutes instead of room.

9:26

And

9:28

then Breaking Bad ends, right? With

9:30

Endgame, essentially. And you

9:32

don't have, you can organically

9:35

build that back with like a Breaking Better Call Saul,

9:38

but if you don't have Iron Man again in your back

9:40

pocket, I mean, not literally, like something that's that

9:42

sort of original and starts

9:45

the story again, you kind of start off with these like, right,

9:48

they had that Spider-Man movie that

9:50

came out, it was kind of half in the previous

9:52

story, it half not, it was this kind of weird,

9:55

I mean, it wasn't a bad movie, but I just mean, what

9:57

it meant to the macro story was confusing

9:59

a bit. or didn't seem to move the ball

10:02

at all forward. It just seemed like, and now there's this

10:04

epilogue with Spider-Man, and he's

10:06

gonna fight some people. It's cool.

10:09

And there's multiple Spider-Man, so that's cool.

10:13

And then we'll do a bunch of other multiverse stuff with

10:15

Doctor Strange, and none

10:17

of it was, at first, inherently

10:20

bad. I think Quantum

10:22

Mania is much worse

10:24

than those, maybe not the Doctor Strange one, but

10:28

it was much more of just a CGI

10:30

fest.

10:31

And

10:32

if you weren't into that aesthetic, it could be bad. But they were

10:34

just kind of, everything all of a sudden felt meandering

10:37

and meaningless, it did not capture the momentum.

10:40

We were so used, as a mass audience,

10:42

to momentum. Every six months,

10:44

I'm going to take three steps forward in this story, and

10:47

that feeling was lost, whether the movies are good

10:49

or bad was moot. But if

10:52

they're bad, it's double bad, because it's

10:54

like, okay, that was pointless.

10:56

I do this thing, Marvel taught me to do this

10:58

thing, I don't do that much, I go to this room, I

11:00

watch this thing.

11:01

But it was worth it, because I moved three steps forward.

11:03

Now I'm not moving anywhere, I'm not gonna do this thing anymore,

11:06

I've got stuff at home. And then on top of that,

11:09

they cheapened the entire thing with

11:11

like, hey, I know you just

11:13

went through this whole process, I know we're

11:15

kind of like

11:16

pussyfooting around a bit in terms of

11:19

where this story's gonna go, it's not really clear yet.

11:22

But I will say, to understand, even

11:24

the little things we're doing, you are gonna need to watch 70 hours

11:27

of television. And then that

11:29

cheapens the idea even more, and honestly,

11:32

I'm really interested, especially

11:34

with this movie,

11:36

it's like,

11:36

I don't think it was necessarily Marvel.

11:39

You could enjoy potentially this movie without

11:42

all the stuff that's led up to this on television,

11:44

on streaming,

11:46

but

11:47

the perception that you couldn't, it's like

11:49

really, people are just like, you know what, people

11:51

are aware of that stuff more than they think. I

11:55

bailed halfway through the Scarlet

11:57

Witch show, and I, you know, and

12:00

the WandaVision, it was good, I just, you know, whatever,

12:02

and I can't go see the Marvels, because

12:04

I'm too, you know, and then you just never get to it, and it's

12:06

like the momentum of that. So it's like, Marvel

12:09

from 2008 to 2019 was this like, 2020 even,

12:14

was this

12:15

incredible example of how to build

12:17

momentum, organically,

12:21

in a mass culture way, and then now

12:24

it's like, they just have forgotten how to do that, or

12:26

whatever, circumstances, not to let them do that, or

12:28

whatever, and it's just like these

12:30

random movies that kind

12:32

of have this larger narrative, but some of them are good, some

12:34

of them are not good, and everyone

12:37

just seems like they're like, ah, it's

12:39

fine, I just won't watch those anymore, I'm

12:41

opting out. And

12:45

you see that a lot with like marketing and things like

12:47

that, like think about like, email journeys and stuff

12:49

you've been on, or like customer journeys you've been on as

12:51

a customer for brands, and it's

12:53

like, when there's momentum and I'm leaning towards

12:55

like,

12:56

a point purchase, or some

12:58

sort of status, but the minute

13:00

that's like clouded and I feel like I missed something or

13:03

whatever, it's like, ah, it's fine, I won't even use my

13:05

card anymore, like I'm out. It's

13:07

like a really normal behavioral economic

13:09

thing, and they have created that

13:12

in tenfold, with

13:14

spending $300 million a movie

13:17

to do these, and now they're suddenly, and it's

13:19

not good, because I'm good

13:21

if it ended with Endgame, I don't care about this that much,

13:24

I'm not a comic book person,

13:27

but to your point you mentioned earlier, Brian, the

13:30

entire movie business kinda relies on these,

13:32

they subsidize so much stuff that

13:34

I do care about, and I'm not saying

13:36

those 11 years weren't fun, but

13:39

I was good with the 11 or 12 years, I

13:42

didn't need 40 years of it, but

13:45

it does suck where you're going, oh no, this might

13:47

all, literally, Peter's might close

13:49

and stuff, unless Tom Cruise

13:51

does Top Gun 3 and saves

13:54

it again,

13:55

these are what pay for all

13:57

the stuff, unless

13:59

people like Adam, Apple are continually cool

14:01

losing $200 million on good

14:03

Scorsese movies, which

14:06

I don't think companies are gonna be. We

14:08

gotta get clever real quick or figure

14:11

out something else that brings in $1.2 billion

14:15

every four and a half months

14:17

to supplement everything else. But I

14:20

think that is the major factor.

14:22

It's like,

14:23

um... And that's not Marvel's fault, by the way.

14:25

No, it's, right. Oh, thanks.

14:29

For all of the studios, it's

14:32

not that there's not gonna be movies

14:35

that pop up and make a ton of money. Barbie,

14:37

you know.

14:40

Barbie Oppenheimer making the money

14:42

that they did. Last year, Top Gun, you know,

14:46

we can go down the list and show

14:48

examples of films that came out that

14:50

were expected to do well

14:53

and then were like behemoths at

14:55

the boxes, the totally different thing. Those

14:57

are awesome. But

14:59

not having the predictability of

15:02

putting out, hey, we have four, we

15:05

have every quarter we've got a movie, come on,

15:07

maybe not the first quarter. Second,

15:09

third, fourth quarter, and maybe we mix

15:11

in a fourth one somewhere in

15:13

there. We've got these movies that are gonna come out. Yes,

15:16

they cost just an obscene

15:18

amount of money to make, but they're guaranteed $650,

15:20

$700 million. $650, $700 million.

15:24

We're gonna profit 100 million, 300 million, whatever,

15:29

out of these movies, and

15:33

that's gonna keep us going with

15:35

some of our other movies. It's gonna help

15:38

us do streaming stuff. It'll

15:40

allow us to greenlight 10 indie

15:43

movies that no one's gonna

15:45

budget for otherwise, all these sort

15:47

of things. And it allows, to your

15:50

point, Richard, it allows theaters to be open.

15:53

And I think what you said is exactly right. You guys

15:55

both have touched on some good points.

15:58

I think it's totally...

16:01

Not only reasonable, as much as I love superhero, I

16:05

love blockbuster movies and just going to the theater and

16:07

having a good time and I had a great time with this. That's

16:10

awesome. My kid wants

16:12

to go and see superhero movies and that's awesome, you

16:14

know what I mean? I want these things to

16:16

exist. I also am at a place

16:18

where I'm like, to your point, Richard, we've seen

16:20

a bunch of these. This is, by the way, number 33 in this series. Over 16

16:25

years. I

16:27

mean, that's a lot of movies.

16:31

I think it's okay

16:34

for this kind of era of

16:36

film to be coming to an end. The

16:38

problem is I don't know what replaces

16:41

it and that has got to

16:43

be, you know, we've had these like,

16:46

like the concept of, you

16:49

know, is, are the

16:51

movies dead? Are theaters dead? Is this over? Has

16:54

been around for 20 plus

16:56

years it's the same as like the NFL. You go back.

16:59

Right, exactly, totally. And I mean,

17:01

you can go back, it's the same with sports. You can go find

17:04

issues of sports illustrated from the 70s that

17:07

will tell you that, well, the NFL is about to die

17:09

and it is not and it is not going

17:11

to, you know, anytime soon. These things do come

17:14

up from time to time. As long as there's gambling, we will

17:16

let people die on the field. Exactly,

17:19

exactly. But the

17:22

scary thing with, for

17:24

the industry as a whole with this,

17:26

and again, we're kind of using the Marvel as

17:29

a bit of sort of cover for

17:31

that whole genre of film.

17:35

If there's not something that pops up

17:38

in its place that props up the theaters,

17:40

that props up budget at studios

17:42

and things like that, then

17:44

it does get real dicey real quick,

17:46

I think, and I think COVID taught us some

17:48

of that too of like how thin the margins are

17:51

for some of the studios. And I really talk about the

17:53

Zazz makes a half a billion a

17:55

year and stuff like that. Like, yeah, sure, there's

17:58

cuts that can be made, but we also know. how

18:00

capitalism works and it's not usually gonna

18:02

be at the top, you know. And

18:06

so that makes it, I think that if you

18:08

are in the crowd that is like, I

18:11

hate how Marvel and the rest

18:13

of these studios have

18:17

turned the theater industry,

18:19

the film industry into a theme

18:21

park ride every couple of months

18:24

and that's all that really matters. I hate that, I'm kind of happy

18:26

to see these things going. Or like full on cheering

18:28

for it, I totally get it. Also

18:31

would tell you that that's not, it's not

18:33

a good sign. If you can't replace some of that predictability

18:36

and that guaranteed money coming through, then

18:38

it really dramatically changes what

18:40

gets produced, how much gets produced, et cetera,

18:43

et cetera. You can also make the case, and I would totally

18:45

agree, that we need less

18:47

content and I think that is a place

18:50

where we're headed. If

18:52

you listen to what Iger has said, if you,

18:54

not just him, but since

18:56

we're talking to Marvel, I mean, he's been pretty open

18:58

about like, we gotta cut the, we gotta take down

19:00

the quantity and raise the quality of

19:03

the products that we're putting out in theaters

19:06

and on Disney Plus and whatnot. That

19:08

seems like, well duh, you know, but it's a thing

19:10

that needs to be said because for so

19:13

long in the entire streaming

19:15

industry, or streaming era, it's

19:17

just been pump out content, content,

19:20

content, content. It doesn't really matter about

19:22

cost and it doesn't really matter about quality. That

19:25

has to change and that will help

19:27

things. But can't, Richard brought up a really

19:29

good point, talked about the

19:32

shows that are part of this as

19:34

well. There have been 10 seasons

19:36

of TV shows on Disney Plus within

19:42

this universe since 2021. So

19:46

two and a half years, I think WandaVision, if I remember,

19:49

was like, yeah, it was January of 2021.

19:52

You got WandaVision, Falcon and the Winter Soldier, Loki.

19:56

What if, which you could say that doesn't really qualify

19:58

here and I think that's fair. Hawkeye

20:01

moon knight miss Marvel which is the one that's

20:03

most relevant to this obviously She-hulk

20:05

attorney-at-law secret invasion Loki season 2

20:08

out right now and then what if starts what

20:10

if season 2 starts in about a month? Next

20:13

year we've got echo

20:15

Agatha Darkhold diaries

20:17

And then ironheart and the daredevil

20:20

show are are on the docket,

20:22

but they don't have dates anymore how

20:25

much stock do you put in the concept of Richard

20:28

talked about it a little bit. This was a hot debate in our

20:30

discord, but can't how much do you put in?

20:34

It's in terms of like this doing poorly

20:36

the concept of like well I didn't watch

20:38

miss Marvel or I don't even I don't I did

20:40

watch but I don't remember what happened or Whatever

20:43

else and there's just too much content for me

20:45

to consume and as a result I don't know anything

20:47

about this movie, and I'm out does that I mean

20:49

does that resonate with you is that resonate with? You

20:52

know your household or the people in your peer

20:54

circle or whatever or is that kind of overblown? I'm

20:57

I'm curious Your thought

20:59

at least anecdotally on that

21:01

Yeah, I think it's probably You

21:04

know has something to do with Just

21:06

with this movie in particular

21:08

Why this one didn't succeed? I think this is

21:10

kind of an outlier I don't think this is an indicative

21:13

indicative of Marvel at large. I do

21:16

think it is what

21:18

Richard was talking about a little bit earlier with

21:22

It ended at endgame

21:23

for a lot of people and

21:25

I do think spider-man

21:27

Has that I think you know the next spider-man.

21:30

I think could make a billion dollars like I don't

21:32

think Marvel is completely

21:34

die I think it's just certain characters that the

21:37

mass audience likes I think Thor

21:39

is one of those we know you know The

21:42

world decided we love Robert Downey Jr. As

21:44

Iron Man And we love freaking Captain

21:47

America, and we love you know ancillary

21:49

characters around we love Black Widow We love some

21:51

characters around that and everything

21:54

else it's like you're gonna have to convince me even

21:56

with Paul Rudd as As well

21:58

like this Paul Rudd is he still at the

22:00

you're gonna have to convince me phase

22:04

and it's honestly pretty funny. But

22:06

with this one you see the trailer and

22:09

I had seen I had seen these

22:11

shows

22:12

I had seen WandaVision and Miss

22:14

Marvel and even I was in the trailer

22:17

during Mission Impossible

22:19

going wait what who's that again and I

22:22

watched all the shows imagine being somebody

22:24

that hadn't seen the shows didn't

22:26

know what the shows were didn't know

22:28

they were out there had you know barely

22:30

remembers Captain Marvel and others these

22:34

and with the trailer it makes

22:36

Miss Marvel and Rambo feel

22:39

more important than Captain Marvel in some

22:41

odd way like you're dumb for not

22:44

knowing who these people are and

22:47

so yeah I think this one is is kind

22:49

of an outlier for people that just

22:51

saw the trailer and said I don't know what that is so I'm out

22:54

but I do think like you

22:56

know you roll Chris

22:58

Evans and a Captain America trailer in front

23:00

of them I think most people will be like alright I'm

23:02

back in so that's just kind of where

23:04

we are I did go back and

23:07

do some number crunching Brian

23:10

you touched on it just a little bit there but

23:13

you were close I haven't added

23:15

in by the way Loki season 2

23:18

into

23:18

this yeah

23:20

yeah so I think and or secret

23:22

invasion that was that what it was called

23:25

yeah but there for just the

23:27

Disney Plus series 35

23:29

hours you got a

23:33

gotta be in on so phase one

23:36

Marvel started this thing out to May of 2008 with Iron

23:38

Man it ended in 2012

23:41

with the first Avengers movie phase

23:43

one was 12 hours long of

23:45

content

23:46

phase two started in May 2013

23:49

ended in July 2015 so it's

23:52

two years instead of four there

23:54

still 12 hours of content so there mm-hmm

23:57

you gotta you know crunch your time a little

23:59

bit We move on to phase three, May 2016,

24:02

with Captain America Civil War, and ended with

24:04

Far From Home in July 2019, basically,

24:07

or in the pandemic started.

24:10

24 hours

24:12

of content, so they're doubling it

24:14

then.

24:15

And this is when they started the 35 hours of content.

24:20

So that's what

24:21

I'm calculating, 59 hours

24:24

right there. And then phase four started

24:27

at Black Widow and

24:29

ended at Wakanda Forever, another 16 hours.

24:32

So you're looking at roughly 7,000 minutes,

24:36

something

24:38

like

24:39

five days straight,

24:41

like nonstop, like not taking a

24:44

break, not, I'm talking about if you, it

24:46

was content solid streaming

24:48

for five days. That's

24:51

a lot of stuff that people gotta be in

24:53

on. And so if we get to the

24:55

point where a person can

24:57

go to the theater and not have to YouTube

24:59

or Wikipedia, a recap

25:02

of what I gotta know before going into this,

25:05

and we can just be in on, I like

25:07

Spider-Man, I like Captain America, I like

25:10

Thor, I liked Black Panther,

25:12

you know, there are certain properties

25:15

I think that it does work with, but

25:18

this is rough.

25:19

I mean, and you look at the

25:21

Bob Iger, the big three Bob Iger

25:23

properties of Marvel, Star

25:26

Wars and Pixar. I

25:28

mean, we might be, this might

25:30

be the first time in ma'am history that Disney's

25:32

in real trouble. I mean, it's

25:35

bad, guys.

25:37

Not to spend the ESPN.

25:39

Right, right. I

25:41

think that a couple of

25:44

things, because

25:47

I do wanna transition into the movie, I know we've

25:49

got a time we need to hit here, but

25:51

I did think that the movie

25:54

did a good job once we were in the

25:56

movie of non-

25:59

If

26:01

you didn't watch the Marvels, I

26:03

don't think you're missing anything once you get into

26:06

the movie. Here's the

26:09

new,

26:10

it essentially treats

26:12

Miss Marvel as a new

26:14

character. You do that little

26:16

introduction with her, which I thought was really good, the

26:19

comic book sketch

26:22

or sequence where she was coming to

26:24

life and stuff. That

26:26

was a good intro of the character for anyone

26:28

who didn't watch Miss Marvel or

26:31

for people like me who did watch it, but I

26:33

don't totally remember just a whole lot about it.

26:37

That doesn't matter necessarily if

26:40

you're in the camp that's just like, I didn't watch it

26:43

and so I'm not going to go watch the movie. If

26:46

you get Butts in the seats, I thought the movie did a

26:48

good job of reintroducing that character

26:52

and in some ways reintroducing Captain

26:54

Marvel too because it's been a while since we've seen her

26:57

as well. I thought

26:59

that that was a strong point of the film.

27:02

It's just

27:03

clear that the marketing part

27:05

of it didn't work very well at

27:08

all and didn't get the Butts in the seat. They

27:10

try to be real

27:11

smooth with the exposition. Rambo

27:13

has a lot of lines in the movie that's like, I

27:15

don't care if I got my powers

27:18

from going through a

27:19

witch-ex and she has to

27:21

sum up WandaVision and all her lines

27:24

because they want to tell you, oh you

27:26

don't have to see that to come see this. It's like, well,

27:29

I don't know. The entire plot is explaining

27:33

who these characters are and it doesn't move forward

27:35

any where

27:36

it's just repeating information for those of you

27:38

who did actually do your due diligence and watch

27:41

it. It's just repeated information and so

27:44

yeah, it's frustrating and honestly as

27:47

a movie, this

27:49

was just exactly what you would expect

27:51

it would be. I mean, this doesn't

27:53

push the medium

27:55

forward in any way. I mean,

27:57

I don't want to say that. Cuz

28:00

I don't think people are this smart like I

28:02

don't want to think the pandemic happened

28:04

and everybody got smart and now Nobody

28:07

likes Marvel movies anymore. Now you got to impress

28:09

it, you know, like I'd really I'm not gonna

28:12

Give us that much credit

28:14

But like I'm kind of glad this failed so that

28:16

they have a Ferrari in the mirror crush it for our

28:18

he's gonna do 900 Right. It made

28:20

everyone's a Michael man. It's like I need

28:22

I need yeah an actual car driving is what

28:24

I'm Instead of a CG I

28:27

don't know what to play what what it

28:29

means to be male and in family. Yeah

28:33

Like when when certain things

28:35

become hits You know

28:37

when into the spider-verse becomes a hit, you know, why

28:39

it's because it is something complete unlike

28:42

anything that's ever been done, you know so

28:45

I Disney

28:48

has to look themselves the mirror and say why did this

28:50

fail? Yeah, we need to push ourselves further

28:53

We can't I mean honestly No

28:56

joke They were printing cash

28:59

these movies were are just

29:01

copy

29:02

copy and paste cast a different

29:04

hot person Cast

29:06

it, you know get a new director to just literally

29:09

attach their name. They're not even gonna be directing it

29:11

And we'll crank three of these out a year

29:14

and they make money every time and holy

29:16

crap people are so dumb They keep buying these

29:18

I mean and now they're gonna have to actually think

29:20

about it

29:22

to your point this is

29:24

phase for

29:27

Believe of this this is

29:29

the

29:29

cap the Civil War 1.1 billion dollars. Dr. Strange 668 666 million

29:35

guardians to 870 million

29:40

Spider-man homecoming 878 million for Ragong 850 million Black Panther 1.3 billion

29:47

infinity war to two plus

29:49

billion Ant-man in the last 623

29:52

million Captain Marvel 1.1 billion in game 2.7

29:54

billion and then spider-man

29:59

far from home 1.1 billion

30:01

and then we then we jump into the you

30:04

know the pandy and things get bad again no

30:07

way home kind of brings movies back right

30:09

before Top Gun really brings movies back and

30:11

gets 1.9 billion but yeah

30:13

to your point there's so much

30:15

money just flying around left and right on

30:18

these things and now there's not and so

30:20

you got it you're gonna have to adjust and

30:23

in fairness to Marvel Disney Iger

30:25

etc so is DC so

30:27

is Sony Sony has I think three

30:31

movies that are gonna we just got the trailer for Madame

30:33

web today and it's it's

30:36

a trailer and

30:39

let's just

30:41

break that down you're gonna feel it next year yeah

30:43

I mean they're gonna feel it next year I think pretty pretty

30:46

clearly I would expect

30:48

Madame web and and craving like they're already

30:51

being like hey this is we're gonna lose so much

30:53

money on these things we got to hope then even the hunters

30:56

like who's gonna go see that I don't know

30:58

one it's it's meanwhile Marvel's

31:01

sitting out next year we got we're getting Deadpool 3

31:04

supposedly next year and and that's

31:06

about it I haven't seen the DC slate

31:08

I don't know yet where we're going on we got

31:11

Superman next year don't we know it's 2025 I think that's 25

31:15

dumbest things I heard by the way during this strike

31:18

was like I'm

31:20

so curious like what the reshoots are

31:22

gonna be on that on that Deadpool 3 cuz

31:24

like you know you got the Wolverine thing it's

31:27

fine it's fun and they're like oh yeah but well

31:29

before the actors strike when it's just the writers like they're like

31:32

yeah

31:34

Ryan Reynolds is there but like he can't improvise

31:37

which is like the whole thing that's what makes us unique

31:39

is that

31:40

because he's kind of a you know co-writer

31:42

on it but it's just gonna be and they kind

31:44

of just write from what I understand pretty boilerplate

31:46

stuff and then they riff it you know it's kind of almost like an

31:48

Adam McKay style the way that make does there's

31:51

just like well they can't write cuz

31:53

there's a race right so we're just shooting it like straight up it's

31:55

like yeah guys just send everyone home like

31:57

that's not yeah there's no point in this

31:59

and there was like an actors strike a month and a half later. So

32:02

I'm so curious,

32:03

maybe they were smart enough to be like, let's just shoot action

32:06

sequences for. Right, yeah. I

32:08

mean, I don't know, but it just seems so weird. You knew yourself,

32:10

basically, yeah. So weird that they, I'm

32:13

fascinated by that, because I just seem,

32:15

that's like

32:16

basically being like, yeah, we're making this Christopher Guest movie

32:18

during a writers' strike and none of the actors get into

32:21

it. They're just gonna walk in and be like, that's a dog, because

32:23

that's what it says here.

32:25

Right. Apparently,

32:27

there's bad news coming out about the Captain

32:29

America one with Harrison Ford. They

32:31

don't think he's doing multiple months of reshoots on

32:34

that one too, so.

32:35

Yeah, no one knows that that's Captain

32:37

America. Like, they did, that show

32:40

did fine for like a streaming show on one

32:42

of our 100 streamers, but like. Right.

32:45

That's gonna be hard. They're in for a rude awakening

32:47

again when the mass audience, when the people are like, no, like, but

32:50

that's not Captain America. Well,

32:52

no question in. 40 episodes

32:54

on How He Is, it's like, I don't have

32:56

that.

32:57

Yeah, yeah, it's.

33:00

They're operating as a monoculture brand without

33:03

any kind of monoculture. Well,

33:05

yeah, in that one, I think

33:07

that one, there's no way you can just be like, all right,

33:09

we're just gonna scrap that one and take it off the slate.

33:12

You kinda have to do it at this point. You're

33:14

too, you're pot committed, I think. Some of these others,

33:17

like, I don't believe there's a world where, especially

33:19

given the Jonathan Major stuff, which is

33:21

real, real bad. The, those

33:25

Avengers movies are not happening. And those,

33:27

at least, are far out enough to where they

33:29

can kinda come up with a backup plan

33:32

and figure out something. In

33:34

some ways, the Jonathan Major's

33:36

thing is gonna kinda be a way

33:38

for them to have a really

33:41

good excuse to say, uh, we're gonna pivot

33:43

when that has

33:46

a part of it, but a bigger part is like, hey,

33:48

the Marvels made less than $50 million. Like,

33:50

we gotta do something. We gotta do something

33:52

different. The movies that you have coming

33:55

up, Fantastic Four and Blade, I

33:57

don't know much about Thunderbolts. That one also, I guess there's a world,

33:59

I don't know.

33:59

on how long, how far along in

34:02

pre they are with that one. There's

34:04

bad buzz on Blade too, like the director quit last

34:07

minute. Yeah, there's been all kinds of stuff with that

34:09

one.

34:10

So it could be a bad movie. I just mean from

34:12

a marketing standpoint, a new

34:14

character standpoint, I think Fantastic Four

34:17

and Blade have a little bit of, there's

34:19

intrigue there and then the real thing

34:21

is they have X-Men coming. It's not just Deadpool,

34:24

we'll get into that here in a second but I

34:27

think they've gotta be feeling like X-Men is,

34:30

if not a fix, then at least it's like

34:32

a salve for what's going

34:34

on. If they do it right, it's a whole new run

34:36

of the movie. Yes, yes. But it's a, you

34:38

know,

34:40

that was a tough lift that they pulled off before and

34:42

they deserve all the credit for that but it's

34:45

not as replicable as they made it seem and

34:47

they gotta get it right. Like I texted you guys earlier,

34:50

like it's

34:51

funny I'm sitting there going, oh yeah,

34:53

Pedro Pascal is Reed

34:55

Richards, that's cool. I'm sitting there, I went green in the tweet, it

34:57

went out on deadline

34:59

and then I'm like, good thing about it, I'm

35:01

like wait, kind of the future of pop

35:03

cinema

35:04

rely on him being good in that role and

35:07

the writer being good. It's like the most

35:09

substantial movie news ever

35:11

maybe.

35:12

Well, to your point, you said this, yeah,

35:14

on our tech thread, like not

35:17

very long ago, that would have been a major

35:19

part of a Comic-Con

35:22

presentation and all this kind of

35:24

stuff and instead, it just kind of goes out over deadline

35:27

and that also I think is an indicator.

35:29

Too much egg in the face on Disney

35:32

for that. I mean, the way that that

35:34

happens, the way that the whole

35:39

Patty Jenkins thing went down. With Rogue

35:41

Squadron. Yeah, the

35:43

way that they would do all these announcements

35:45

and have these huge press

35:47

conferences essentially before they'd even had a script

35:50

or anything,

35:52

yeah, I think, I'm

35:54

convinced the only reason that the late is happening

35:56

is because of the Comic-Con

35:58

moment when he walked.

35:59

out there with the hat. Like if that

36:02

had not happened, they could have shelved that

36:04

thing. Yeah, it didn't work. Well, I

36:05

think they lost everyone else. The fact that that was such a public thing,

36:08

like they can't, they have to make it now.

36:11

I mean, I think that they've lost everyone

36:13

else along the way besides Mahershala Ali.

36:16

So if he walks, then you, there's

36:18

got to be at least somebody in the room who's like,

36:20

it'd be really great if Mahershala just pulled

36:23

out at this point and just said, you know, I don't want to do this because

36:25

we can, we can knock this one off. I

36:27

do think that there's some

36:29

cultural intrigue with that, that

36:31

movie that it'll get, it'll get a bump on that.

36:34

I mean, if, if, if you're really the idea,

36:37

like you're not going to stop making some

36:40

superhero projects. I don't

36:42

think, I don't think that it's going to end overnight. I

36:45

do think you need to be more selective. I

36:47

would say that they have an

36:49

out or a way of, of

36:51

kind of, again, like sort of hatching, if

36:53

not fixing this with X-Men

36:56

and potentially Fantastic Fourcoming, I

36:58

would stop doing anything within this,

37:01

the branches of the universe

37:03

that we have already explored ad nauseam

37:05

in these 33 movies. I'm a, besides

37:08

Spider-Man, obviously, but. Stuff

37:10

I didn't know about before 2008. Like,

37:12

you know, that was the reason they pulled off is like

37:15

the, the people like me that are not comic people,

37:17

you got me to care about,

37:19

you know, Hawkeye, not really, but, but

37:21

you know, Thor, you know, I

37:23

thought Thor was a mythological, I mean, he is

37:25

too, but like, I didn't know that was, you know, and all of a sudden

37:28

I was like, Oh yeah, this is cool. But I did

37:30

know Captain America and I did know some of the others

37:32

and it's like, that's again, go back to the ones

37:34

you haven't done on that. Like they are Fantastic Four and

37:36

X-Men. I know those passes

37:38

the like mass audience tests were at least, if they're

37:41

good, people will go to them. If they're good parts

37:43

big, but. Right.

37:45

Yep. I agree. Let's

37:48

talk about the movie itself. And

37:50

we go to you, you Richard, because I know you got to bounce out

37:52

here in a bit. Kind of

37:54

general thoughts on, on, on the Marvels.

37:57

Yeah. This goes into, I've had this

37:59

I've had this problem since the first one.

38:02

And even in

38:04

games, I don't like Brie Larson in this role

38:07

for some reason. I like her in other things. I

38:09

don't find the role to be particularly badly. For

38:12

some reason, the actor and the role

38:14

do not meet for me. I find it very,

38:16

I

38:17

find it stilted the whole time. So

38:19

it operates from a place

38:22

for me. It's a very personal taste. I don't

38:24

know what it is. It's almost like a musical rhythm

38:26

thing. I just always think it's off. So

38:28

all of these,

38:30

when they feature her, or feature this

38:32

character a lot, operates from a deficit for

38:35

me. That has

38:37

to be kind of overcome. This had not overcome

38:39

it too much. I

38:41

didn't think it was a mess by any means.

38:44

It didn't deserve to be like Lampoon.

38:48

Again, we kind of talk about what do the directors do on these as

38:50

part of this overall, Feige versus

38:52

Versai. But

38:55

it causes great, we love Candyman and all

38:57

that.

38:59

But yeah, I honestly

39:01

kind of went in and expected to be kind of lost by

39:03

it because of the Marvels

39:05

thing. I wasn't. They did

39:07

a perfectly fine job doing it, but I did not

39:09

enjoy myself at all. I found it to just be really flat.

39:12

And just

39:15

kind of,

39:17

I don't like the aesthetic that they're in right

39:19

now. That also operates the place from deficit

39:21

for me. It's a lot to overcome

39:24

there too. It's a weird kind of like Power Rangers,

39:28

a TV show feeling. I

39:30

don't know what it is. Maybe it's the scroll characters.

39:33

Maybe it's the lighting that they're using,

39:35

but there's something

39:36

kind of soap opera-y about the

39:40

way that this was shot. I don't know. I'm

39:42

with you there, Richard.

39:44

Yeah, so I didn't

39:46

love this. I did, it's not the worst

39:49

movie of the year by any means,

39:51

but it's a very mediocre, I

39:54

would have expected from a comic book

39:56

movie in 2007 before this

39:58

whole, before everything.

39:59

I honestly was

40:02

thinking

40:03

about that exact same thing. I was like, man, what year

40:05

is this? 2023? Have they really pushed this

40:08

thing that far at all in 25 years?

40:14

I mean I'm thinking back to like X-Men, the

40:16

first X-Men movie. Have

40:18

they – for what this is,

40:21

for what X-Men was, would you think that

40:23

there would be 25 years of filmmaking

40:27

between those? No, absolutely

40:30

not, and that's disappointing.

40:31

So maybe this is a situation

40:34

where it's like, yeah, this is not –

40:37

when you water it down, when you –

40:39

they're watering down their own product with some

40:42

of these shows by putting them on TV because

40:44

then it makes the movies

40:46

look like TV quality because they see this

40:48

on TV every day. So yeah,

40:51

I don't know. It's kind of a catch-22 that

40:53

they put themselves in. It's a real, real

40:55

tough – like you want to build a universe,

40:58

but you don't want to overdo it. You

41:01

want to have consistent releases, but

41:03

you don't want to overdo it.

41:06

I mean it's really tough. I mean

41:08

to –

41:09

and they found the balance for so long. I

41:12

mean literally probably until 2020

41:14

they – we come in

41:16

on here every movie like, well, Marvel did it again.

41:19

Really fun movie, made a ton of money,

41:21

really probably better

41:24

than it should have been, and

41:26

pushes this thing forward, and here's what we can expect.

41:29

I mean that was the review every

41:31

single time, and now it's like,

41:33

I don't know,

41:35

every single time.

41:37

Sure. I think that –

41:41

so I like this – I think I like this more than

41:43

both of you all did because

41:46

Igers check cash, thank goodness. No,

41:49

the – I had

41:51

a good time with this. I think part of

41:53

the deal for these

41:56

movies moving forward – and this

41:58

is a tricky deal. Because

42:01

they sort of set the bar like for to

42:03

your point can't for many years and we come

42:05

in here and talk about

42:07

these movies we would talk about how they'd

42:10

kind of raise the bar or they've progressed the story

42:12

or One of my big things has

42:14

been with as somebody who loves blockbuster

42:18

popcorn II kind of movies I love when

42:20

a Blockbuster popcorn

42:22

movie can also be like a really high-quality

42:25

film too And you see

42:27

that with with some of the Avengers movies you've

42:29

seen that along the lines with several

42:32

of these movies Guardians and and spy

42:34

and Black Panther and spider-man they

42:36

sort of have backed themselves into a corner in some

42:39

ways of

42:41

For many many years. We're making

42:43

popcorn movies that not only resonate

42:46

culturally, but actually are For

42:48

as much as they are then can be

42:51

cookie

42:51

cutter

42:53

They are pretty dang quality movies

42:55

for the most part most of them or at

42:57

least enough of them I think we're

42:59

kind of at the point now where I'm like when I

43:02

go in to see this

43:04

Most of these movies at this point and it's on

43:06

them for them to change this if they

43:08

want to but I think that there's something To be

43:10

said for I went to the movies

43:12

with my family and I had a good time. It was under

43:14

two hours We laughed we have you know, I

43:16

enjoyed myself and then

43:19

we went home and that was the end of it now

43:21

It's it's hard. I think it's really hard.

43:24

One of the things they're battling against I think is

43:26

the challenge of Transitioning

43:29

away from we've spent 15 years

43:31

where every one of these movies every one of these

43:33

characters, etc mattered

43:35

to this overall Huge

43:38

story and now it's not

43:40

that Captain Marvel doesn't matter to the the overarching

43:43

story. Obviously she does It's

43:45

that for this movie in

43:47

and of itself really is just for

43:49

me was just like hey I'm just having fun at the theater.

43:52

That's it. I don't really care how Captain

43:54

Marvel and miss Marvel and whoever

43:56

else Connects you the rest of this

43:59

because

43:59

to your point that you said kind of at

44:02

the outset Richard, I

44:03

kind of already closed that book.

44:06

I'm kind of moved on and it

44:08

was awesome. I love Endgame.

44:11

I think it's one of the best action

44:14

comic book movies of ever. But

44:17

that kind of also ended it. And so for

44:19

me, I

44:20

think trying to, for the

44:23

studio, trying to find the balance between let's

44:25

just make a movie that will be

44:27

enjoyable and fun also will make money,

44:29

which

44:29

they obviously missed pretty big on that one.

44:32

Versus we have to make sure that everything

44:34

connects to a thousand different points is

44:36

gonna be tricky. And again, maybe

44:39

that's the benefit of being able to say, all right, now we're

44:41

moving to X-Men, Fantastic Four,

44:43

et cetera. Just as a movie

44:46

standing on its own, I mean, you're absolutely

44:48

right. It does not progress the story at all.

44:51

Just as a movie on its own, I had a good time with it. I thought it

44:53

was fun. I thought it was really enjoyable. I'm

44:55

with you, Richard, in that there

44:58

is something that's a little off to me

45:00

with the Captain

45:02

Marvel character with the way that

45:05

I think she is such

45:07

a good actor. And sometimes I wonder if it's just,

45:10

talent-wise,

45:13

she's better suited as a dramatic

45:15

indie actor. Yeah,

45:18

serious actor at times. It's not that she's not

45:20

funny. She is, she can be. She has good

45:22

timing. All these things.

45:24

She always seems

45:27

like 5% uncomfortable to me.

45:30

And 5% uncomfortable and 5% disdainful of

45:33

the entire process on screen. Which

45:36

by the way, I'm sure it's tedious and

45:38

all. Sure. Sure. Again,

45:41

her and anything else signed me up.

45:45

I wouldn't even say she's bad in it. It's just something,

45:47

it almost feels

45:49

like A.I. Brie Larson

45:51

as

45:53

Captain Marvel to me. It's just like there's something,

45:56

there's

45:56

a soul to it that's missing. Yeah.

45:59

I can only see that. I

46:02

liked Kamala. I

46:05

thought that Marvel was pretty solid. I enjoyed it enough.

46:08

It wasn't like A plus, but it was B plus

46:10

for me. I thought

46:13

she was a very good addition. To

46:15

me, the moments where Captain

46:18

Marvel works the best was when

46:20

she is in combination

46:23

with Miss Marvel and Monica

46:26

Rambo. I don't know that character's name. I

46:28

don't know if they ever said her super

46:30

secret. They always come

46:32

in today. I mean, they tease it. It's

46:35

a joke throughout the movie. I don't know if

46:37

they ever revealed it or not.

46:39

Good deal. I didn't miss that. Good.

46:42

Or we all three missed it. I don't know. I

46:44

thought that the combo

46:47

with Iman Vellani. I

46:49

know some people maybe found her a little bit obnoxious. I

46:51

thought she was really, really quite pretty

46:53

fun and good. She matched the tone

46:56

of the movie to me better than

46:59

Captain Marvel did, than Brie Larson did for me. I

47:01

don't know. Can't worry about that. Yeah,

47:04

it felt more like the Miss Marvel movie than

47:06

it did Captain Marvel 2. That's

47:09

fine. Only problem with Miss Marvel, huge

47:12

overshirt offender. I mean,

47:15

she's falling from the sky

47:18

and the overshirt is still barely

47:21

flapping in the wind. No

47:24

files anymore. So at least there's that. No,

47:26

there were some for

47:27

sure. She had the iPad and she was

47:30

like, is this the new iPad, bro? I forgot

47:32

about the iPad. I only think of analog

47:34

files. My dog, she's bro. Yeah.

47:37

That is,

47:38

you know, no, she's fine. There was,

47:40

I think the emotional

47:43

stuff that worked well for me was the

47:45

Rambo and Captain

47:47

Marvel. Like,

47:50

you never came back. You left us. Cool

47:53

sequence. The song

47:55

and dance number on Aladdin was

47:57

among. It

48:00

was like scuttlebutt that I

48:02

couldn't opposite. I'm not I

48:05

love that right and great. Yeah,

48:07

what yeah I know. I know maybe

48:09

the honest dude. This is 40. I don't know

48:12

I'm just gonna make you I thought it was that song

48:15

and scuttlebutt on rotation and

48:18

and see if you know Enjoyed

48:22

it that that felt to me like That

48:25

felt like something that was that

48:27

would have fit in Regonk

48:30

or I don't know maybe the better Guardian

48:32

stuff or something I can see what they were going

48:34

for but I thought the idea of a Culture

48:38

that sings everything it was

48:40

not this is not the movie for that. Yeah, I know what

48:42

you're talking about. Okay Like there is

48:45

James Gunn does do that stuff. You're right pretty

48:48

well Somebody in the discord said it felt like a Star

48:50

Trek episode and I agree with that. I like that

48:52

I think that that was meant as a criticism,

48:54

but I enjoyed that. I thought it was a fun a fun

48:57

bit I think we should be having more fun with

48:59

these movies. I think that's probably why I liked I'm

49:02

all for fun I just thought the song was yeah,

49:04

like the music Yeah,

49:07

I tell it when that came through I was like this

49:10

is gonna be hot in the discord people were gonna There's

49:12

gonna be lots of opinions on this thing and

49:15

on and on the episode, but I think

49:17

that's probably why Kamala

49:20

works for me. So well here is because I think

49:22

she matches the vibe Of

49:25

what the movies kind of going for and not that again,

49:27

it's not a Brie Larson performance thing It's

49:30

it's the character just has never totally

49:32

felt

49:33

comfortable on screen I feel like we're

49:36

We're two movies in on the Captain

49:38

Marvel branch and she's been

49:40

in Three others or whatever

49:43

and I still don't totally get still

49:45

totally know that character

49:48

all that well and I think there's

49:50

a there's a Scale of powers

49:52

issue with her too. Sometimes it's like

49:56

feels like she can take on Thanos by herself

49:58

at the end of in-game

50:00

Then in this she's kind of getting whooped by

50:03

One of the worst villains that this

50:05

this series has produced

50:08

with like a staff and I just I don't

50:10

know It's kind of it's

50:11

kind of odd on that plate on that front But

50:13

yeah to your point can in a lot of ways this feels

50:16

closer to a Miss Marvel movie

50:18

than a Captain Marvel movie and that's not a bad

50:20

thing. It's just

50:21

it's not what

50:23

This was sort of build out. Yeah, I

50:25

feel like or what the expectation was on that

50:28

front Yeah for

50:30

sure I mean you've got we've seen this

50:32

dynamic sort of played out in the

50:34

other phases with Iron Man

50:36

and Spider-Man how you have this character

50:39

that is

50:40

kind of the face

50:43

of the Avengers at

50:45

this time and Mm-hmm. It's

50:48

Captain Marvel here. It was Iron Man then and you've

50:50

got this character that really wants to be a

50:52

part of it

50:54

in Spider-Man and Miss Marvel and then

50:56

you've got this other character in Rambo and

50:58

in kind of The Hulk

51:01

or Captain America that really doesn't want to

51:03

be involved and is just kind of mmm road

51:05

into the circumstance We've

51:07

seen that dynamic play out. So that's what I'm

51:09

saying Maybe like refresh the template

51:11

like these are a template that they have

51:14

a writers room And I'm sure they have

51:16

things that they reuse and character

51:18

arcs and things that they You

51:20

know, it rhymes it's like poetry

51:22

it rhymes You

51:25

know shake it up a little bit do something different Right

51:28

change up the formula the algorithm

51:30

that that they were working to make these things.

51:33

Yeah successful Yeah,

51:34

I mean there were seriously it was a point in time

51:36

or if it was Marvel Studios You were making

51:38

a hundred million dollars if it was good or bad

51:41

Yeah opening weekend and it's just not like

51:43

that anymore. And so they're gonna have to put more thought

51:46

and time and effort into Convincing

51:50

us again and on the Rumbling

51:54

side of things I have heard a rumbling

51:56

that they're just throwing cash at

51:59

Robert Downey jr. Chris sevens to come back. It's

52:01

gonna happen. I mean it's inevitable at

52:03

this point. I would, I mean

52:06

we've been saying for

52:08

years that DC needs

52:10

to just take a break, needs to scrap

52:12

it, start over,

52:14

take a breather where there aren't any

52:18

superhero

52:21

movies you do need

52:22

to be like sort of non-canon

52:25

films or stuff that's not gonna

52:27

necessarily work into the timeline like cleanse

52:30

the palette for a little while then come

52:33

back with a better plan.

52:35

My worry is that you are gonna

52:37

see RDJ and Evans

52:40

and whoever else back by like 2026

52:43

and I think that's a mistake. It may not

52:45

be a mistake in the short term to

52:47

like fix cash problems but

52:50

I think it's a mistake long term. Well

52:53

is it a mistake with what happened with. It's

52:55

gotta be a little later. I don't think it's like.

52:57

I think it's gotta have some space. I think I mean they

52:59

had

53:00

honestly Brian they'd bank so much

53:03

of the future of this franchise

53:06

on a Chadwick Boseman

53:09

and Black Panther. That one hurts. That's a big part

53:11

of the. Jonathan Majors.

53:13

Yeah. The entire second arc was gonna

53:15

be him. I mean it's

53:17

not just like oh we gotta save face for

53:20

money or financially. It's like we

53:22

gotta set the story right again. We gotta

53:24

center this thing back

53:26

where we were.

53:27

And the only thing to maybe do that might be

53:30

Robert Downey Jr. in some capacity. I don't know

53:32

what it is. Maybe it's Chris

53:34

Evans. I really felt like Avengers

53:37

was more of a cap property

53:40

than an Iron Man property.

53:43

But you know so I think either of those

53:45

characters could work. They gotta figure

53:47

out a way to ground this and

53:49

maybe Nick Fury is the answer in some way. I

53:52

don't know. But they gotta write this ship somehow. They gotta get back

53:54

on track. Right. Right. I

53:57

think they gotta do that as X-Men and maybe Fantastic

53:59

Four.

53:59

of reader but

54:01

yeah I mean the Chadwick thing is a huge

54:03

part of all this that kind of gets a little

54:06

bit lost in the mix of how

54:08

important Black Panther and

54:11

Chadwick Boseman the actor were to the

54:14

future of this whole thing and

54:16

that's you know such a tragic

54:18

loss obviously much much more tragic loss

54:20

for his family and people who actually were

54:22

you know that knew him but is a loss

54:25

to the studio into the audiences

54:27

into the structure of this

54:29

thing he was a major that

54:32

was a major important part of what was expected

54:35

to happen so like if Kevin Feige came out and said

54:37

you know next Disney

54:40

or next Comic Con next year he comes

54:42

out and says hey

54:45

just so you know we're changing some things around as

54:47

you can tell some things have happened that

54:49

have been unexpected

54:51

like if he just had to come to Jesus meeting with the

54:53

MCU fans and said I think that would I think you should

54:55

we plan this thing out in basically

54:58

in 2018 2019 for the next 10 years

55:01

a

55:01

lot of things happened and so we're gonna have to change

55:04

some things around hope you don't mind I don't

55:06

I think you always get it they just I hundred

55:08

percent I think that's a that's that's a hundred

55:11

percent what should happen I don't think you even have

55:13

to say hey we had some deaths we

55:15

had this awful crap no with

55:17

majors blah blah blah blah I think you just have to

55:19

say hey

55:20

we're being we're

55:21

gonna face this you know

55:23

we're gonna be honest about things have changed since

55:25

we set this plan

55:27

we're gonna reset the plan we're gonna make sure we

55:29

do things right you know we want to do things right

55:31

by the light by the audience by the the

55:34

the folks that are coming to see these movies and and obviously

55:37

everyone will in the back of their mind say I mean

55:39

what you really mean is that you're gonna do right by your shareholders

55:41

and try to make as much money as possible that's what their job

55:43

is so

55:44

but we can be I

55:47

think an honest moment of hey

55:49

we're gonna we're gonna change things up is is

55:51

I would say is borderline

55:53

required at this point to kind

55:55

of change that because you're they aren't

55:58

making a Kang movie it's not gonna happen

55:59

So

56:01

if you're in game on all this is

56:03

these two Avengers movies that now either

56:06

are not gonna happen or are certainly not

56:08

gonna happen in the way that they were intended to happen

56:10

when it was announced and it's Not

56:13

only okay. I think it should be it should be Encourage

56:16

if not required to say yeah, we're gonna

56:18

to come out and face it and say yeah, we're gonna change things We're

56:20

gonna do something different here.

56:21

I'm with you. Can't mean eventually eventually

56:24

that the the original cast

56:26

and crew They're coming back. It's going to happen. It's

56:28

inevitable but

56:30

I don't think that it is I think there are ways

56:32

that you can fix stuff or or

56:34

Stall that process or you know put

56:36

it out a little bit further Without

56:39

having to jump right I don't think it's like a desperation

56:42

either I think like Robert Downey Jr. Chris

56:44

Evans won't come back. I think they're like yeah They

56:47

both are kind of like me. I kind of miss that

56:49

I mean, you know The

56:52

the Chris Evans experience. I don't think it's going great

56:55

Post post my white ear, you

56:57

know, we all saw do little so Yeah,

57:00

it's I think I win the Oscar this year though

57:03

make that

57:04

Sure, that's true If

57:06

he wins the Oscar what else what else does he have left to

57:08

accomplish outside of? Marvel

57:10

so it's like just go back to making money, you know He's

57:14

just got

57:15

I feel like Gavin's is more likely than down he just

57:17

because I mean Danny We just want to do it full of

57:19

the game, but that guy's made so much

57:21

money off those things like right

57:23

Right, right. I don't think I don't think there's a number

57:25

that could get him back if he doesn't want to if

57:27

you but he May just be like like you said, he may just miss

57:30

being a huge Tier

57:33

one star which like weirdly went away

57:35

for all those people the minute for him

57:37

started. Yeah

57:39

No question. No question All

57:42

right. Well, I know we talked more about the business and the studio

57:45

than we have about the movie But I think

57:47

I think that might be a little bit indicative

57:49

of the movie. I had a good time with it I'm ready

57:51

to grade. I don't know if you guys are yeah. Only thing

57:53

else I had was I'm the scroll

57:57

Creed Yeah,

58:00

I just I don't know what it is.

58:02

Yeah At least

58:05

with the Infinity stones I could follow what was going

58:07

on. Yep. Yep Kang

58:10

is obviously not going anywhere and

58:12

I hope this doesn't go anywhere. So maybe they gotta

58:14

find like another antagonist of this series

58:18

or whatever or You

58:20

know, you can lens or whatever

58:22

but Yeah, yeah,

58:25

can't can't hurts man That's

58:27

my favorite chin song new

58:30

gang new king. There we go Yeah,

58:34

I totally alright, let's let's

58:36

let's grade this and get out of here are we going

58:39

to you first I'm gonna give this

58:41

just a straight down the middle C Okay,

58:45

can't believe yeah, I'm not that low

58:47

on it. I did think it was perfectly fine

58:50

It's not any lower quality than

58:53

the other Marvel movies. It's just the same.

58:55

They're just just another one You

58:58

know, so I'll go B-minus on it Right.

59:01

Okay. Yeah, I'm higher than y'all. I mean I had a good time with

59:03

it. I don't know where this leaves us As

59:07

far as the we talked about that quite a bit, but

59:09

just as I'm just stand alone I like

59:12

what Nia de Casa is doing. I think she's got

59:15

She's got something and and there's We

59:18

even talked about like that candy may movie so

59:20

freaking good I'm crazy out so much, but

59:23

it's so good. She's gonna

59:25

do lots of great stuff. I think moving forward and

59:28

I enjoy the cons like the That

59:32

family the Marvel family is a lot of fun. Also

59:34

that by the way, I thought It

59:37

felt like Samuel L Jackson was having fun in

59:39

a movie for the first time in a really long

59:41

time And that was that was

59:43

kind of cool. It was kind of cool to see him be

59:46

But I don't know if engaged is the right word,

59:48

but he seemed to be having a good time They filmed

59:50

his parts during his Magic Johnson vacation

59:53

He's

59:55

had a good move he just came off a bee right

59:58

yeah, it's perfect yeah I was

1:00:00

cooking and magic and the whole crew. Yeah.

1:00:04

One of the great all time zips is

1:00:06

Jimmy Kimmel Photoshopping himself into those.

1:00:08

Right. And people always

1:00:11

think like, so you go on vacation with magic,

1:00:13

right? Yes,

1:00:14

nobody, yeah. I

1:00:16

dig that. Also, it had a BC Boy song, so that

1:00:18

gets it above as well. I'll give

1:00:21

it, I'm between a

1:00:23

B plus and an A minus. I'll be super generous

1:00:25

today and give it an A minus. That may come down when, into

1:00:28

the year considerations. But I had a good

1:00:30

time with it. And I don't

1:00:32

know where we're going from here, but for just that

1:00:34

two, and oh, by the way, hour 45. Yeah,

1:00:37

that was awesome. Love that. That was a good time. You're

1:00:39

right, that and BC Boy's all changed by grade to a C plus.

1:00:43

Perfect,

1:00:44

perfect. Okay,

1:00:46

we're on a crunch today. So

1:00:48

we're not gonna do weekly recommend tonight. We'll

1:00:50

move on. This week in the discord,

1:00:53

no, no, not the discord. In the VIP,

1:00:55

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1:00:58

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1:01:00

mad world. Maybe there was

1:01:02

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1:01:43

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1:01:45

on the day, Richard decides to make an appearance. I can't

1:01:47

book Mad About Movies Podcast.com. Mad

1:01:49

About Movies Podcast.com. Mad About Movies Podcast.com. Not on my work computer

1:01:51

anymore, so I don't have everything to do. Oh, that's a bummer. You

1:01:54

better have to. That's a bummer. Gonna get you on Google Glass, right?

1:01:56

Exactly. That's gonna be good. All

1:01:58

right, cool.

1:01:59

Next week, I believe next week's episode

1:02:02

is going to be David Fincher's

1:02:04

The Killer, which is on Netflix

1:02:06

now. You can check that out. When we get back from Thanksgiving

1:02:09

break, we'll do

1:02:11

an episode on the new Hunger Games. Lots

1:02:14

of fun stuff coming from the main feed

1:02:16

and the VIP. Thanks for

1:02:18

being here. Thanks for listening. Maybe

1:02:22

I hear the blues are calling. Top salad

1:02:25

and scrambled eggs. And

1:02:29

maybe I seem a bit confused. Yeah,

1:02:32

maybe. But I got you, Peg. But

1:02:37

I don't know what to do with those top salad

1:02:39

and scrambled eggs. They're

1:02:43

calling again. Scrambled

1:02:46

eggs all over my face. Maybe

1:02:51

I got the scrambled

1:02:53

eggs all over my face. They're

1:02:58

calling again.