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2:40

Oh,

2:58

quarter.

2:59

Yeah, we provide the water and

3:01

the soap

3:03

and the six topless women and

3:05

you just wash the car yourself.

3:07

It's an 80s style.

3:09

It's like a kind of an 80s music video

3:11

style car wash. And

3:16

our change machine never works by the way.

3:18

So you have to bring in quarters. One

3:20

time I won't say his name. And we're out of

3:23

soap.

3:23

It's just water. You're

3:25

paying for water.

3:26

His name was Baramy Bamsil.

3:29

I'll rhyme it, Kent, so you can do math on

3:31

that. But one time we lured a kid from

3:33

high school to one of those car washes near the

3:35

house because we told him we're going to 7-Eleven and then

3:37

we washed him in the car wash because he smelled really bad.

3:40

Because he was in the back of the truck?

3:42

No, he walked and he just stunk. Oh,

3:45

so we lured him in there. We walked

3:47

him in there and held him. He pulled

3:49

the old, hey, hop in the back of the truck. We'll run up to

3:51

7-Eleven. We sudzed him up because

3:54

he was real stinky. And we don't

3:56

think his bathing was regular. We

4:00

bathed him. Me

4:03

and Bcat and a few others.

4:07

You hosed them down. We literally

4:09

hosed them down. Like the whole addiction back

4:12

in the backyard scene. Yep.

4:14

Oh, he was a nice kid. He was always around

4:16

us. He always stunk and we just were like, you know

4:18

what? We're gonna take matters in our own hands here. It's gonna

4:20

cost a quarter

4:21

and we just pinned him and there's

4:24

always one smelly kid. Yeah, exactly. Oh,

4:27

yes. And everyone wants everyone. No

4:30

one's willing to do something about it. And you know, we were willing

4:32

to invest. You were made of action. Yeah, we were willing

4:34

to invest 50 cents. There's probably years of grime that you

4:36

pressure washed away. Yeah. I was just lingering

4:39

there. No one's here to get away.

4:41

Fully clothed by the way I shouldn't mention.

4:44

I'm talking about all the clothes too. Yeah. When I

4:46

was in high school, speaking of the smelly kid, this

4:48

is a weird start to this episode. But

4:51

when I was in high school, I went on a mission trip

4:53

to Honduras with

4:55

a group of folks and there

4:58

was one guy, same thing. Richard's a nice guy. Enjoyed

5:02

his presence except he smelled terrible

5:04

and he met

5:06

Vince Juan in Honduras. This

5:10

is where the Smells Bad All-Stars started. He

5:13

owns a speaker cities. What he's got a more electronics

5:15

up there than a GD kids concert. Yeah, he even

5:18

has time.

5:20

Yeah, nice guy. Just just smelt

5:22

pretty rank and got worse because we

5:24

were in Honduras like

5:26

building houses and stuff. It's humus.

5:28

Yeah. That's a Jurassic Park type

5:30

climate. Yeah, exactly. And

5:32

then at one point, I mean, we're like four or five

5:35

days into this thing and I would,

5:37

I don't think he had bathed yet. I would

5:40

hazard to guess and

5:42

the adult who was sort of chaperoning

5:45

this trip, he came into the

5:48

barracks, I guess. Came

5:51

into the barracks and was like, he

5:53

was like, Mr. Paul Giamatti, come

5:55

with me. Come over here. He

5:58

tried to. All right. Let's get you

6:00

over here. Yeah. Yeah, he tried to do the nice

6:02

thing and he you know He's hit this all

6:04

down and he says boys the

6:07

The girls have been complaining that Some

6:10

of you don't smell great I mean he did like

6:12

the nicest thing you could possibly do like he let this kid off

6:14

the hook so hard like I'm gonna address

6:16

the whole room But clearly everyone in the room knows

6:18

that I'm talking to this one kid and

6:21

all right we good. All right, so shower up Okay, like

6:23

let's get clean. This is we don't you know, it's

6:25

a hygiene issue at this point All right, cool,

6:27

and he leaves the room and we're all kind

6:29

of like quiet nodding to ourselves

6:31

like all right That was a great way to handle it. He'll get

6:33

it now

6:35

He

6:42

didn't get it we're gonna have to be more direct now and

6:45

There's always one

6:47

yeah every time we go on any church

6:49

camp trip. There's one kid. That's not gonna

6:51

shower I mean I'm in a macro sense

6:54

Kent my I don't know if they you're younger than

6:56

me. They may have changed it but

6:58

Kent and I went to a Religious

7:01

school which was lovely and

7:03

all that stuff but in middle school when you're at

7:05

your most sort of you know hormonal

7:06

and all that

7:08

there was we had a chapel We were like elf

7:10

In formal sort of you know, basically

7:13

a school assembly at the end of the day every day they

7:15

would have chapel So that was like

7:17

seventh period was chapel But six period

7:19

for the sixth graders like when you're the most awkward

7:21

like you haven't really figured your stuff out yet for us was

7:23

PE and There was no like

7:26

shower situation or anything. You're in PE. You're not in athletics

7:28

yet, which starts in seventh grade So

7:30

they would make us all go work out run like two miles

7:33

Whatever and then bring us to chapel and then and then

7:35

yell at us for smelling. Yeah, we're

7:37

like, yeah

7:42

So, yeah, we all think by the way half

7:44

of us are girls Well have eating disorders now

7:46

because you're yelling at them like we can't help

7:49

this We'll

7:55

go work out then we'll go home guarantee

7:57

you will shower as soon as we get home, but

7:59

yeah, we all

7:59

smell they'd be like well the sixth graders over here stinky

8:02

sixth graders like yeah

8:04

we do we all smell yeah

8:07

anyway even if we hadn't it that is the worst

8:10

smelling group of kids ever so yeah

8:12

of having PE

8:15

or athletics football practice before

8:17

school was bad too yeah that's he always still

8:19

mm-hmm but at least they had the

8:21

there was ostensibly a shower that you could

8:24

take and then they could be like wow you need a shower

8:27

no they didn't no I know and plus they would you

8:29

know the coat the way our school was is

8:31

that like the gym situation was like a quarter

8:33

mile from the school situation

8:36

and so Brian knows because

8:38

you play basketball there so they

8:40

would be like cool your classes

8:42

start at 915 football

8:45

practice ends at 9 so

8:47

why

8:48

don't you go you got 15 minutes to fully

8:50

shower dress yourself and

8:52

get get a third of a mile over to school by the way

8:57

there's 60 of you and there's three shower heads

8:59

so good luck and then they'd yell

9:05

at us for being late and we're like I know you

9:07

guys probably should get some walkie-talkies or something coordinate

9:10

amongst teachers but we're got

9:12

here as quick as we can I'm still covered

9:14

in mud because I took

9:16

eight seconds of a shower

9:17

I'm ready to start my academic journey yeah

9:20

great time wet sitting there it's like cuz I literally

9:23

five minutes ago what do you want me to say all right

9:26

great types I'm not so I were that's why Kent and

9:28

I are enormously confident

9:31

again speak for yourself welcome in

9:33

VIPs thank you for being here

9:36

hold on we're welcoming in another audience

9:39

welcome national audience now man okay

9:41

we're sorry

9:43

we're sorry our other audience you had to witness welcome

9:45

in welcome you now

9:49

in to the Mad about movies VIP bar lounge

9:51

grow here on the main feed we're being

9:54

store guys you

9:56

might listen to that about movies every single week

9:58

on your iTunes your Spotify something

10:00

like that but you might not realize we do episodes

10:03

other than that on our well VIP

10:06

feed we have here on our website mad about movies podcast

10:08

calm slash VIP and

10:11

so here we are we thought

10:13

in honor of the anniversary

10:16

of this movie the overdue

10:18

nature of the discussion of this

10:20

episode and the fact

10:23

that we're in Halloween times

10:25

we would drop a little main

10:27

feed throwback episode but keep

10:29

in mind we do these weekly sometimes

10:31

multiple times week sometimes every day

10:33

will drop episodes so

10:36

just stick around to that VIP feed subscribe

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it's about dollar a week if you want

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of other free perks a Christmas gift coming soon

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if you sign up soon so get on over there mad about movies

10:55

podcast calm slash VIP sign

10:57

up if you want more throwback discussions

10:59

movies that might not be new movies we

11:01

try to keep it some new relevant

11:04

up and coming movie news type items in

11:06

the main feed and then we throw it back to maybe

11:09

some some classic movies some some

11:11

Netflix side movies some Oscar

11:13

movies that we don't get to on the main feed we'll get

11:15

to on the VIP so stay tuned for

11:18

that over there but

11:20

again welcome welcome in to

11:22

the VIP lounge bar grill we like to just hang

11:24

out here it's really relaxed environment we're

11:27

all sipping our various beverages

11:29

of choice what do you what do you have tonight Richard I

11:32

have a little think

11:34

it's a real thing

11:36

yeah yeah it's not a reason I've got a little

11:38

red here

11:39

a pineal noir I think I

11:42

think it's a blend actually nothing fancy but

11:44

you know it gets a job done on a little

11:46

relaxation agent there you go I've

11:49

got a little topo Chico slash

11:53

I guess it's a crystal white a

11:55

little crystal white powder

11:58

in the topo

12:00

You know change your life you're welcome

12:02

brian where do you sit on got a cup

12:04

of coffee it's my

12:06

first evening coffee you know you know i roll

12:09

yes.

12:10

Fully caffeinated i will probably hit

12:12

the evening coffee for the next episode

12:14

will record which we're talking about sign felt we've done

12:17

every season of sign felt this year we're working on way through

12:19

it got one or two more left

12:21

for the year and we're gonna get that.

12:23

Later so it's another part of the ip

12:26

sign felt talk monthly anyway.

12:29

This discussion is about the shining and

12:31

fellas i'm very excited to talk about this

12:34

in fact.

12:35

So excited to talk about it that when i watch it

12:37

again i was confident in fact hundred percent

12:39

confident that we had done an episode on this already

12:42

like.

12:43

Or

12:45

have we maybe at some

12:47

point somewhere down the line and

12:50

some kind of talk on it i don't

12:52

know i feel like i've talked about this at

12:54

length with somebody

12:55

one of you guys maybe in the past at some point

12:58

maybe i'm wrong. Regardless

13:00

mentioned plenty of times obviously it's a

13:03

yeah movie but i don't think we

13:06

have but i honestly can't

13:08

i had that used to be like the i mean

13:10

i always knew i'm like hey we've done this we've done that

13:12

whatever. I have back to the future on our

13:16

calendar for this year right up until like a week

13:18

before we were gonna do it and somebody in

13:20

the vit hey we've already done

13:22

that you guys have already done it i mean i'm happy to listen

13:24

to another one but i was like oh okay

13:26

well. The next step so possible

13:29

the way i don't think it six hundred in there sometimes

13:32

episode four seven four will get lost

13:34

in the shuffle area whatever it is. So

13:38

we reviewed little women twelve times

13:40

i'm all i have to say i'm fairly fairly

13:43

confident after very little research that

13:45

we have not done a shining episode already.

13:47

Please be fresh thoughts and.

13:51

Again brian you mentioned it we've talked about

13:53

this movie before on the show in fact.

13:56

As early as last year when we talked doctor sleep

13:59

we have an episode. about that, the sequel. If

14:01

you want our extensive thoughts on that, we'll

14:03

get more into it on that. I'm sure it'll come up in this episode.

14:05

But yeah, it's a topic

14:08

of conversation. I think Stanley Kubrick in general

14:11

has been a topic. Maybe we've talked about

14:13

The Shining there.

14:15

Maybe we've talked about

14:17

horror movies in general. Maybe we've talked about favorite

14:19

movies and it's come up. I'm

14:22

sure it has, but I want to rewind,

14:25

start this thing off with general thoughts

14:27

and background on this movie.

14:30

Where you guys first encountered it,

14:33

whether you grew up with it or not, and all

14:35

that stuff. I started

14:37

with this, actually

14:40

reading the book. I had read the book because I asked

14:42

my dad when

14:44

I was younger, hey, what books did you

14:46

read when you were younger that you really enjoyed?

14:50

He said, I remember reading The Shining and being terrified.

14:52

I was like, oh, okay.

14:55

I heard of Stephen King. I was probably 12, 13, whatever.

14:59

Read the book, loved it so

15:01

long, so dense. For

15:05

what I was expecting. That's weird. Yeah.

15:11

If you've seen any of the movie, it's very, movie

15:14

is very skeleton. In fact, not accurate

15:16

at all. We'll get into that here a little bit

15:18

later. I read the book and then

15:21

ended up seeing the movie later when

15:23

I went in

15:26

my deep dives into movies that I needed to see

15:30

somewhere along the line. I saw The Shining, loved it,

15:34

bought it, have revisited it a little bit,

15:36

but I try not to watch it too much. Just like,

15:38

I don't know, a lot of classic movies that I

15:40

know I love. I try not to watch every

15:42

single year, even though I could and probably

15:44

want to, especially around Halloween.

15:48

I don't do that, but man,

15:51

I revisit this one a lot and I got a lot of thoughts

15:53

on it, so I'm excited to talk about it with you. That's my background

15:55

on it.

15:56

Richard, what's your

15:58

overall

15:59

thesis? on your background on The Shining.

16:02

One of my favorite movies ever,

16:04

Jack Nicholson, probably.

16:06

I was thinking about this

16:07

the other day. I was like, man, that might be my favorite actor

16:10

ever. And

16:12

that's not a cool one, because it's such an obvious

16:14

choice. But dude, he is cool. What are you talking

16:17

about? No, it's cool, but I mean, it's a little too, it's like being like,

16:19

you know, my favorite baseball team, the Yankees.

16:22

But I love Jack, love this. I

16:25

didn't come around to it till I was probably 15,

16:27

maybe, was when I saw the first time, 2015, early

16:30

high school, maybe late middle school, I don't know.

16:32

But I certainly grow up with it by any

16:34

means. But yeah, it's one I watch pretty much every year.

16:37

Just

16:37

watched it last week, and we were

16:40

talking about doing this episode, but I

16:43

actually watched it independent of this episode, because it's just such

16:45

a classic. I love Kubrick. I know Brian's

16:47

a little less of a Kubrick guy,

16:50

and Ken's a big Kubrick guy, so we kind of

16:52

all straddle the different sides. But

16:54

I love this. I

16:57

know Brian is like, this is probably the best Kubrick

16:59

film, this is 2001, and I certainly, I

17:02

think this is just a perfect movie. Every

17:04

frame of it is awesome. And yeah,

17:07

I just love this movie. To me, this is like

17:10

spooky movie number one.

17:11

And I love some slasher

17:14

movies. I love Halloween, and I love Exorcist.

17:18

I'm not as big on the Exorcist, but I mean,

17:21

I certainly respect it. I'm

17:23

a scary movie guy, not quite to your level, Ken, but

17:25

definitely more than Brian, but to me, this is

17:27

the goat. I think this is just awesome.

17:30

Brian, what about you? This

17:32

is one of the few movies I don't really remember

17:34

the first time I saw it. I

17:37

think partly because it was, I

17:39

mean, this movie is just so prevalent

17:42

in the culture, you know, that it's, you

17:44

feel like you've seen it before you've ever seen it, I

17:46

think, because of Here's Johnny

17:49

and some of the,

17:51

I mean, there's just a lot of stuff that at least

17:53

when we were growing up, it felt like it was-

17:56

Yeah, the twins and- Yeah.

17:59

All the, yeah. So all that

18:01

stuff, it just felt so omnipresent

18:06

that – so for whatever reason, I

18:08

don't really remember seeing

18:09

it for the first time. I've probably watched it

18:11

half dozen times since then. I watched it last night

18:14

with my wife. Lindsay's a big fan of this one. And

18:16

you guys are right. I mean anyone who listens to the show knows.

18:19

I'm not a horror movie guy. I don't

18:20

like to be scared.

18:24

But also, I'm with you Richard. I think this is probably

18:26

the best horror movie ever. At

18:29

least it gets my vote. I know it's so little,

18:31

so maybe my vote shouldn't even count, but

18:33

it's such a – I think it's a perfectly made

18:35

movie. It's not one that I'm

18:38

ever going to be excited to sit

18:40

down and watch because it's not my

18:42

favorite type of thing obviously. But

18:45

I think Jack is incredible. I

18:47

think

18:49

the

18:50

lengths to which Kubrick went

18:53

to get the performances is

18:55

insane and probably

18:57

abusive. But it worked

18:59

and it's a –

19:01

it's incredibly effective on that front. And

19:03

I don't know. I like when a horror movie

19:05

or a scary movie or a thriller or whatever you

19:07

want to categorize this as. I like when

19:09

there's an intelligence to it and when it is

19:14

designed to be terrifying –

19:17

how do I put that? I'm sorry. I

19:19

don't sound very eloquent right now. I

19:21

like when a movie is terrifying in the moment

19:24

but doesn't keep me up at night later. So

19:26

that's a great – I really appreciate it. Would

19:28

you put this along with like Silence of the Lambs?

19:31

I think that's a pretty good –

19:33

I think this leans a little

19:35

more horror than Silence of the Lambs

19:38

does because – I mean,

19:40

Silence of the Lambs has one or two moments that are just

19:42

pretty –

19:43

that are at your feet

19:46

thrilling gore – yeah, gory-type

19:48

moments. This one, it really does

19:50

build psychologically through the course

19:52

of the movie. I mean, I

19:54

know there's been – you would know

19:56

better than me, but there's how many documentaries

19:59

and – books and features and whatnot written or

20:02

shot specifically about this movie.

20:05

It is a masterclass in

20:08

how to do a psychological thriller type

20:10

of a movie. I think Silence of the Lambs is a great

20:12

movie but it's not quite... I don't

20:14

remember watching Silence of the Lambs and just being

20:16

like for two hours just being

20:19

super tense the entire time and

20:22

worrying for the characters

20:24

the way they do with the shiny. Yeah

20:26

man this movie is great and

20:29

if I'm going to sit down and watch a scary movie

20:31

or a horror movie during spooky season this one is

20:34

way way way up on the list.

20:36

I think this world is cool too. Today just

20:40

a quick aside we watched Shining Last

20:42

Night with my wife and I and this morning while

20:44

I was working in my office I rewatched Doctor

20:46

Sleep. I really dig that movie man. That

20:48

was a solid pull last year. That

20:52

one if ever I recreate

20:55

a top ten horror

20:58

slash scary slash thriller list that one definitely

21:00

I think makes the list because it's just really solid.

21:02

I think this world is interesting and

21:05

Kubrick did

21:07

some stuff obviously that Stephen King

21:10

hated but it makes for I think an

21:12

incredibly interesting and

21:15

freaky movie. Yeah

21:19

I mean Stanley Kubrick I mean

21:22

might be my favorite director in terms

21:26

of the outside the

21:28

good Doctor Uwe Bowler out

21:32

there Eastlander his name. I didn't he's

21:34

got a PhD I respectfully say

21:37

the good doctor. I said the good doctor because that's an insulting

21:39

show to compare him to the

21:41

doctor. Yeah

21:44

I know I love Kubrick and I

21:47

totally am on board with

21:49

anyone who's like don't understand

21:51

it. Not for me can't get it. I

21:54

totally understand that whereas if somebody

21:57

says I don't understand.

21:59

Steven Spielberg movies, I really

22:03

don't understand that at all. No, I

22:05

mean you understand them, Richard. No,

22:08

I do. They're just not your preference.

22:10

You know what I'm saying? There are people that literally just

22:12

like I didn't understand

22:14

E.T. I couldn't. To

22:16

me, they're the most approachable

22:20

movies out there on all fronts,

22:22

on every genre. You want a horror movie, approachable

22:25

one? Jaws, right? You want an approachable

22:27

science fiction film? Close encounters.

22:29

Go ahead. Is this great

22:32

effect sometimes and to lesser great effect exactly

22:34

what you should be feeling in every film? Sure. Yes,

22:37

and… And most of the time, by the way, it's good. Don't

22:40

think me as an idiot.

22:41

He nails it 80% of the

22:43

time. I would just say I'm the rare

22:46

person that says 20% of the time. It's a little on the

22:48

nose. That's my Spielberg take.

22:51

When you look at Stanley Kubrick's

22:53

filmography, I mean it is an

22:55

incredible line of work. I

22:58

mean he was kind of a prodigy of his time.

23:00

He was an incredibly successful still

23:03

photographer. You know, like could have been

23:05

in all time

23:07

great, you know, like an Ansel Adams level

23:10

well-known photographer. And

23:12

he was in his day as a very young

23:15

person and ended up

23:17

discovering film and made

23:20

some wonderfully successful

23:22

films early in his career. Spartacus

23:25

and Barry Lyndon and Lolita and

23:27

some of these movies before 2001,

23:30

which everyone considers his kind of coming

23:33

out party or his debut really.

23:36

It was kind of more in his late Beatles

23:38

phase, right? And this

23:40

is no different. I mean

23:43

I really think Stanley Kubrick

23:45

more than anything was searching for a property,

23:47

a skeleton of a property

23:50

to adapt. And okay,

23:53

I just need a setting. I need a place. I need

23:55

a situation, and

23:58

I'll do the rest. I can figure out the rest. want

24:00

to create because he knew what kind of mood he wanted

24:02

to create. He knew the atmosphere, the

24:04

kind of winding

24:06

atmosphere of the interiors of the hotel. I

24:09

feel like he had all that stuff internally

24:11

mapped out in his head beforehand, you know, in his mind's

24:13

eye. And then comes across the

24:16

Shining and of

24:18

course, very well known, and I'm

24:20

not saying anything new here, took

24:23

very bits and pieces of this Shining book, made

24:26

it into his own, changed some things around

24:28

to his liking, to

24:31

Stanley Kubrick's liking, to make the best Stanley Kubrick

24:33

film he could and put

24:35

it out there. Some people got

24:37

it. Of course, fans of the book didn't get it. Of

24:39

course, Stephen King hated it, bashed it, ended

24:42

up making his own version some years later and

24:45

still bashes it to this day. But I

24:47

really think it's more of an artistic

24:51

statement, more of an experimental

24:54

feat of filmmaking than it is like

24:56

him trying to adapt a book into

24:58

a movie, you

25:01

know, and trying to tell this story of Jack Torrance,

25:03

you know, this is about an atmosphere.

25:05

This is about a feeling that you get when

25:08

you leave the theater, but you don't

25:10

know what you experienced and all

25:12

that. I mean, when you think about nonlinear filmmaking,

25:16

this movie,

25:20

it's also very well known that you can play

25:22

the movie kind of overlapped on

25:25

each other. Like it's a very

25:28

circular film in terms

25:30

of how it's shot and how it's

25:32

told. So like literally,

25:34

if you took the entire movie on a film strip,

25:37

folded it in half and then ran it through the projector,

25:40

like

25:41

the front and the back of the movie would line up in some really

25:43

eerie ways that even Stanley Kubrick

25:45

thought of back in the day. So I think

25:48

there's a lot of, and I don't want to get

25:50

too deep into the conspiracy theory side of

25:52

things, because I think from

25:54

a technical side of things, this is a masterpiece

25:56

of filmmaking on

26:00

a lot of levels and we'll get into that. But there

26:02

are some fun, interesting conspiracy theories

26:04

on what it means and why he made the movie

26:06

and all that. But we'll get into that

26:09

a little bit later. But in terms of,

26:11

like you said, Brian,

26:13

the master class of terror,

26:15

I think it really starts with

26:19

the overlook and the setting of

26:21

the overlook and the look of the overlook.

26:24

And I was going back and watching

26:27

this little documentary thing.

26:29

I think it was on the Shining Blu-ray

26:31

or something like that. Wow,

26:34

I'm a brag. And

26:37

I watch it on YouTube, I don't have it. I

26:39

just search for it or whatever. And sometimes I

26:41

go, oh no, we get it. Yeah, I know,

26:43

I have YouTube, it's pretty cool. And

26:46

so, you

26:48

know, Stanley Kubrick

26:49

was saying,

26:51

I think Jack Nicholson

26:54

said this, that Stanley

26:57

hated production design, like

26:59

hated sets, hated some

27:01

dude coming in here and saying, all right, well,

27:04

his apartment's gonna look like this. Like

27:06

he would go around and send people around

27:08

the world with cameras

27:11

and take pictures of hotel rooms and take pictures

27:13

of different places. He

27:15

would line up all the photographs and say, okay,

27:19

here's the gold room, here's the Colorado

27:21

lounge, here's the red bathroom, here's

27:24

the hallway, you know, and did it that

27:26

way. And I think that really comes

27:28

across in the authenticity of

27:30

this movie and the fact that this

27:32

does feel like a real place that ghosts

27:35

would exist in. In fact, it's

27:37

all fake,

27:38

it's all plastic, it's all a set, right?

27:40

But it feels so real. Like this has to be

27:42

a real place, right?

27:44

But it's not. And I think that's

27:46

an incredible feat of, I

27:49

don't know, foresight to just set this

27:51

in a really natural environment with what

27:54

seems like real people and with not a lot

27:56

of fanfare and let

27:58

the camera.

27:59

to do the talking and you

28:02

talk about a bare minimalist script.

28:04

I mean, there's not a lot to work with here. Of course there's some bombastic

28:07

scenes and some, some big moments,

28:09

but overall it's

28:11

very minimal and you spend a lot

28:13

of time browsing the hotel. I mean, this is a two

28:16

and a half hour movie and I was

28:18

about 80 minutes of talking in it,

28:20

you know, a

28:22

lot of, a lot of, a

28:23

lot of tones, a lot of, a lot of music,

28:26

a lot of score, a lot of cinematography,

28:28

but I think it's all for the better and I'll get, we'll

28:30

get into the weeds here in a second. But

28:34

yeah, that's kind of my first impression is just how awesome

28:36

the overlook is. And Brian, you say you watch

28:39

Dr. Sleep and

28:40

something I remember talking about in the Dr. Sleep

28:42

episode was

28:44

how did they do this? How did they recreate

28:46

this? The Shining, you know, and

28:50

they literally did. They built it. They went back

28:52

and they just built the whole set again. It's

28:55

awesome. There's a, I'll probably put

28:57

it in the link in the description

28:59

for this episode if you want to check it out on YouTube, but

29:02

there's a little video where they actually

29:05

build the Colorado Lounge and everyone's just geeking

29:08

out like the director, you know,

29:12

to get the big wheel and it's like riding it around the

29:14

hallways of this place. Like it's an actual physical

29:17

place. And I think that's so

29:19

cool too, to be able to recreate, in

29:21

my opinion, the most iconic film set of all time

29:24

is a really cool,

29:26

cool thing. And I wish it was somewhere

29:28

where you could go visit it, you know, or

29:30

stay there. Because I think they

29:32

actually, the real one is called the Yaha Wani

29:36

Lodge or something. It's in Yosemite. There

29:39

is a Colorado Lounge there. Like it's the exact

29:41

same layout. Someone that Kubrick modeled

29:43

it after, but it slightly changed over the years.

29:46

But I think they should open an overlook hotel. Like

29:48

how awesome would that be to stay there? Like if it was

29:50

the same layout, carpet,

29:52

red bathroom, all that kind of stuff would be

29:55

I mean, no, thanks for me, but I get it.

29:57

As long as you're not staying in room two through seven,

29:59

you're good.

29:59

or 217.

30:04

Yeah, man, the structure

30:06

of this is so cool. It's

30:08

really interesting to me the

30:11

kind of, I don't know if it's a feud

30:13

or whatnot, but the maybe creative differences

30:16

between King and Kubrick on

30:18

this. It's one of those, to me at least, where you can kind

30:20

of see both sides of it. I

30:22

haven't read The Shining. I've read plenty

30:25

of other King works. It's

30:27

just really funny that King says, man, he had

30:29

no interest in adapting my book.

30:32

He just took the idea – he did

30:34

just exactly what he said, can't he? He took the idea

30:36

because the setting is cool and is

30:38

interesting and the themes

30:40

are interesting and then basically just tossed

30:43

out everything else and wrote a story. All

30:45

the mythology, all

30:47

the real logic to it is going on. Sure.

30:51

And you can totally see King's point of view

30:53

of saying, hey, man, why are

30:55

you getting my book

30:57

and then just going to completely destroy it and

31:00

not do anything with what I wrote?

31:03

What did he say? I have it in my notes somewhere. He

31:05

said something like, oh,

31:07

it's a fancy car without an engine because he

31:09

stripped out all my writing. And Kubrick

31:11

kind of fired back and says, well,

31:14

I mean, it's a cool idea,

31:16

but the writing's pretty weak. And

31:18

so they're just the back and forth between

31:20

the two of them. Because you see, King, that when

31:23

I was leading the research that when

31:25

King wanted to make that 97 miniseries,

31:29

Kubrick still owned the rights to all TV

31:32

and film adaptations

31:34

and whatnot. And so King had to

31:36

go to him to get permission to

31:38

make a miniseries out of his own book.

31:41

And Kubrick let him do it as long as he signed

31:43

a letter saying that he would no longer slander

31:46

the movie and film book, which is pretty

31:48

great. So I enjoyed it. You can sign

31:50

a letter that says Stanley Kubrick's

31:52

version of The Shining is a good movie

31:55

or something like that. Like to say that

31:57

it's not because that's what he slandered.

32:00

Not only that it's not a faithful adaptation, but that

32:02

it was a bad movie and no one should

32:04

go see it. That's nonsense. Yeah.

32:07

Even for Stephen King and –

32:10

New rules. Granted, I didn't – and I

32:12

love Stephen King. American treasure is Stephen King. I

32:14

love that guy. I don't want to slander

32:16

an American treasure. But at

32:18

the same time, even for – Well,

32:21

that's still coming to me. You know, if this – yes,

32:23

we can slander former – former

32:26

disgraced American treasures. Even

32:29

for Stephen King, he should realize

32:32

that this is a great film. And

32:34

granted, it's not me. I didn't write The Shining, so

32:37

I can't really sympathize with that. But

32:39

at the same time, he should be able to say, wow,

32:42

I've never seen a movie like that before, you

32:44

know? Because again, up to this

32:46

point, this is 1980. You know,

32:49

there was Halloween. There were – there

32:51

were some horror movies out, Alien. You know, those kinds

32:53

of movies were out there. It

32:56

wasn't like this. There was never really –

32:58

I don't know if anyone had ever really

33:00

done The Haunted House, taken

33:02

it seriously like this. It was almost

33:04

like a Christopher Nolan horror movie, you know?

33:08

Like it's a serious-minded horror

33:10

movie. It strips away the camp in

33:13

a truly terrifying way. Because

33:15

I think everybody out there can sympathize

33:18

that if you were stuck in a hotel by yourself

33:22

for six months or whatever it was, they

33:24

were going to be in there,

33:26

that you would probably go insane too

33:28

and have those fears of, can I even do this?

33:31

And then like

33:34

it starts happening to Jack Torrance without

33:36

him even realizing it. It's like the

33:38

very stark

33:40

realization some people come to when they watch this because

33:43

it's way more terrifying than they anticipate.

33:46

Of course, there's some ghost moments and the twins

33:48

and some jump scares.

33:51

But I think it's more of a psychological – like

33:54

trapped in your own mind type movie.

33:57

And that comes across, man. I re-watched

33:59

this again over the last –

33:59

the weekend and

34:01

it just looks incredible man. It

34:04

might be the Blu-ray restoration

34:06

or whatever it is or whatever the version

34:09

is that I watched

34:11

but it looks so

34:13

good.

34:15

It holds up on almost every level. Even

34:19

movies that I love and I love, I think Halloween is probably

34:21

the best horror movie ever and even that

34:23

doesn't hold up in some areas in terms of decades. Only

34:26

the Rob Zombie though, right? Yeah.

34:29

I think Rob Zombie is Halloween.

34:33

The fact that

34:35

all of that holds

34:38

up really encouraged me on

34:40

this last rewatch and it made me even say, gosh,

34:42

this is a good better movie. I looked at my all-time

34:45

list because I hadn't watched it in a couple of years

34:47

when I made our most recent all-time list and I had

34:49

it I think 20 or 17 or somewhere

34:51

around there on

34:53

the list. I was like, man, that should have been a top 10 for

34:56

me. If I have one Kubrick movie,

34:58

it's probably going to be this one although I do like

35:00

all of these movies a lot. I

35:03

do. We

35:06

could talk about that another time and rank the Kubricks

35:08

but I

35:11

think this is the best movie and I

35:15

don't know. Anything over space

35:17

odyssey?

35:19

Space odyssey is not. I'm fine with

35:21

that. I don't like 2001 as I said

35:24

previously. I would much rather watch The

35:26

Shining. I mean sure. If Stanley Kubrick had never

35:28

made The Shining, hell yeah, 2001

35:30

would be his best movie. The Shining is like

35:34

on another level. I think The Shining is

35:37

bigger than 2001 even. More

35:40

influential on

35:41

more people and has

35:43

stood the test of time and maybe

35:45

Jack Nicholson has something to do with that but

35:48

again, I just think the

35:51

way he went about this and we'll start with the

35:53

Steadicam. He

35:56

hired Garrett Brown, the inventor of the Steadicam

35:58

to shoot this movie.

35:59

person who knew the most of how

36:02

to get the most out of this new technology.

36:05

We say that new because that seems

36:07

so foreign. What do you mean

36:10

you couldn't shoot a movie without

36:13

a

36:13

shaky cam? Basically

36:15

no. This was the first movie where you didn't

36:18

have to have a physical track on the ground

36:21

to get a steady smooth shot, like

36:24

moving shot. That was a big deal.

36:27

You see it in this movie really highlighted

36:31

by

36:35

the fact that they put the cameras close to

36:37

the can to the ground, they have that striped carpet,

36:39

and you really see the

36:42

depth of field

36:45

the way it is. There is no

36:47

track. This camera

36:50

really moves around almost independent

36:52

of anything else. This is a

36:54

masterwork of cinematography. I

36:56

don't know

36:59

if there is. If

37:01

there is a video on just camera movement

37:03

and the shining, please send that to me. It's

37:05

like a character in the movie. The

37:07

way he tells

37:10

you where to look, takes

37:12

you around this hotel, confuses

37:14

you, is truly brilliant.

37:18

Kubrick again built this set,

37:21

pieces of this set, different locations, pieced

37:23

them together and the

37:26

contradictions pile up in your mind, in your subconscious

37:29

of the locations of things. He

37:31

really starts out in the front lobby of

37:33

this hotel and you follow Jack Nicholson into

37:36

the middle of this office that's in

37:39

the middle of the hotel. Why is there a window

37:41

in the middle of the hotel?

37:44

All these things add up

37:47

in terms of

37:49

they walk into the freezer and

37:52

there's a hallway behind

37:54

them and then they walk out of the freezer and there's a different hallway

37:57

behind them. So, subconscious things. It's

37:59

the only And Vancouver was

38:02

super into subliminal advertising and things like

38:04

that at this time. So

38:06

I really think on a truly,

38:09

truly honest

38:11

level, he was just trying to mess with people

38:13

with this movie to

38:16

the greatest, greatest links. And

38:19

it really worked. I mean, he's a guy

38:22

who never let anything slip through the cracks. Continuity

38:25

errors. You talk about costume

38:27

choices, things in the background,

38:32

the typewriter. What brand of typewriter

38:34

is it going to be? What color is the typewriter

38:37

going to be? And again, during the movie,

38:39

the typewriter changes from white to gray. I don't know if

38:41

you guys noticed that or what that symbolic

38:43

of,

38:45

Jack's lack of shining or whatever

38:47

that is. But again, that's a conscious choice by

38:49

the director. And there are certain things in here

38:52

that they add up over time. And

38:55

again, I don't know what Stanley Kubrick is really trying to say with

38:57

this movie, but it's not the shining.

39:01

And I want your opinions on what you really

39:03

think that is. I have my thesis

39:06

after this most recent rewatch of probably what

39:08

I think he was most likely trying to

39:10

say with it. And

39:12

I have some evidence for that that I'll get to

39:14

or point out. But I want y'all's

39:18

thoughts on just like what the shining means. You

39:20

know, Brian, what do you think? It's

39:23

a good question. I mean, there's definitely

39:28

more at work here than just straight

39:30

up, I'm going to make a movie. I'm

39:32

not a conspiracy guy.

39:34

And

39:36

I mean, I'm not smart enough to get into the head

39:38

of what Kubrick was trying to do. You're

39:41

pretty hard in the pizza gate, though.

39:44

I mean, you know, I'm just saying

39:46

there's some dots that can be connected. What do

39:49

you mean was an end of pizza gate? Right.

39:53

Right. That's why I had to turn my camera off tonight. I don't

39:55

want you guys to see the yarn wall

39:57

behind me.

39:59

I definitely think that

40:02

part of this was... So

40:06

when I'm looking through the research, it's not just

40:08

Stephen King. There's lots of people who

40:10

said about Kubrick,

40:12

not great things.

40:15

And a common refrain

40:18

was kind of like what I say about Zemeckis, is I don't

40:20

think he understood human emotions. I

40:22

don't think Zemeckis understands human beings. And

40:25

I think other people feel that way a little

40:27

bit about Kubrick. And I definitely

40:31

think this was partly... I mean,

40:34

I think he took this movie in part because he was interested

40:36

by the setting and using the

40:38

setting as a character. But also I

40:40

think he was interested in... He

40:44

wanted to explore making a horror movie and

40:46

what that was. He's never

40:48

done that before, didn't do that afterwards, you know,

40:50

unless you... I mean, Eyes Wide Shut's kind of a horror movie.

40:54

But doing... he wants to experiment in

40:56

the genre. But I think part of even that

41:00

attraction for him was the psychological...

41:06

I think he's just a dude who was really interested

41:08

in the psychological side of things. And the chess player, you

41:10

know, he's kind of that. Yeah, for sure.

41:13

That's exactly right. And so the

41:15

psychology of a horror movie and what

41:17

makes people tick and how

41:19

he could explore that on screen. I mean, we

41:22

know... I mentioned Eyes Wide Shut,

41:24

but we all know him. It's a very common story

41:27

that we know at this point that part

41:30

of, if not maybe the only reason he made that

41:32

movie is because he didn't think that Tom Cruise

41:34

and Nicole Kidman had a real

41:36

marriage and he wanted to break it apart. Which is revolving

41:39

against Hollywood's couple. Yeah.

41:42

Gosh, there's a... Have you read

41:44

that book, 1999 movie year?

41:48

I haven't yet. There's a chapter in

41:50

that book that talks about

41:52

Eyes Wide Shut. And he

41:54

made it for like two years

41:57

straight. Yeah, I know.

41:59

It's so long. It was one the longest shoots

42:01

ever. Oh, dude. It's insane. So the the

42:03

close-to-man theory I don't think you've read that camp but the close

42:05

to my theory is he was trying to break them as a

42:07

couple That was the whole reason we made that movie is

42:09

that

42:10

He was trying to break he

42:12

knew that that relationship was fake and he was

42:14

trying to break it. So he he

42:17

Conjured up this entire film. I'm

42:19

gonna say I initially agree with all of

42:21

it But it certainly was effective if that was the goal

42:23

then yes Right. You

42:25

got it done Yeah, I just I

42:28

I don't know Kent just kind of a brain

42:30

full circle I don't really have a great answer to your

42:32

question other than I think he

42:34

was interested in the psychology of of

42:37

the genre and maybe

42:39

wanted to see if he what he could do within

42:42

that genre and I You

42:44

know this thing it's so the

42:46

cinematography is incredible the way it's all structure

42:48

is incredible the

42:51

I think it's probably I mean I Slammed

42:55

on like Darren Aronofsky last week

42:57

when we talked about I'm thinking of ending things And so I guess

43:00

I'll just keep it up but like you watch

43:02

a movie like mother that's sort of about

43:04

the the descent into madness

43:06

and the protection of this

43:09

of your of your baby your story

43:11

your your book or your whatever it is and

43:14

Then you watch this and it's just like it is

43:16

to me It's just laughable with somebody

43:18

like our not see like the way that yeah that

43:20

Kubrick is able to handle that same concept

43:23

within the actual framework of Yeah

43:26

of like with an actual good movie. It's it's

43:29

it just makes our not he looked like a child to

43:31

me But but that whole I mean he he

43:33

does that better He did that better than

43:36

than anybody of doing

43:38

of doing very very

43:40

difficult complex things

43:42

and

43:43

Our themes and exploring those themes within

43:46

the concept of a medium that actually had

43:48

some some I

43:51

almost said relevance. It's not really the right word some

43:53

some structure in some Substance

43:56

goodness couldn't think of the word. Sorry guys. Yeah that there's

43:58

real substance to this while also

44:01

exploring these really deep

44:03

dark themes. And that,

44:06

I mean, that carries over to almost all of his

44:08

movies, I would say.

44:11

Yeah, 100%, and

44:14

again, Cooper's not for everybody. I

44:16

like Full Metal Jacket a lot more than most people

44:19

do,

44:20

because

44:21

I don't know if, and again, we've

44:23

done an episode on that one, didn't we?

44:25

We did, yeah. A couple years ago.

44:27

So yeah, I won't go after that one. Yeah,

44:29

it's your old place, your old house. Yeah,

44:32

yeah. While your roommate watched us.

44:35

We had an audience of one. I don't remember

44:37

any of these. I really don't remember any of these

44:39

recordings. I got problems, guys. I

44:41

know we did Dr. Strangelove. That one, I think,

44:44

is, I

44:46

might have that one at the, it's tough, it's

44:48

tough. And I think we did a 2001, but I'm not,

44:51

I guess, Cooper's pretty good. Yeah,

44:54

we did do 2001, 100%. I remember

44:56

it.

44:57

I love Spartacus and Path of Glory.

44:59

I think those two are really,

45:01

have become somewhat underrated

45:04

just based on how. Old they are.

45:06

Yeah, and how huge, you know, I

45:08

mean, Correct of the movies, right? Look, 64 to 71 is Dr. Strangelove 2001

45:13

and Clockwork Orange. You can forgive

45:15

somebody for forgetting that he did Spartacus

45:18

and Path of Glory before. You know what I mean? Because

45:20

it just, those movies are so huge and

45:22

swallow up so much of

45:24

what. You mean Spartacus is only Oscar? That's

45:28

a good. Thought he won Best Picture for that,

45:31

didn't he?

45:31

I think, let's see, he,

45:35

yeah, you know what, he didn't win anything.

45:38

He won special

45:41

effects. That's

45:43

a shame. I thought Spartacus won. He

45:45

should definitely have a, I'm an idiot. I'm

45:48

gonna memorize my best picture. No, he's nominee

45:50

for writing on Full Metal Jacket, nominee

45:52

for Best Picture and Director and writing on

45:55

Barry Lyndon.

45:56

That's a third. Picture, director writing,

45:58

Clockwork Orange, director,

45:59

director writing on 2001

46:03

and then

46:06

Best Picture nominee for and

46:09

director and writing for Dr. Strangelove. Sorry.

46:12

Yeah, all those, he racked up the nominations but no ones.

46:17

Insane. Truly one of the

46:19

most brilliant

46:20

directors and

46:23

Richard, do you want me to pass it to you on what

46:25

The Shining means or do you want me to go? You

46:27

go nuts, man. You go nuts.

46:32

I mean what do you guys think about the symbolism of

46:36

the setting,

46:37

right? The

46:39

Indian burial ground. What do you

46:41

think the symbolism is there? I think there's

46:43

something there with

46:47

the fact that it was on an Indian burial ground.

46:49

You talk about this elevator.

46:51

I don't

46:54

know. I don't want to say

46:56

homage but this elevator

47:00

refrain I guess is the right word that you

47:02

see throughout the movie. It

47:04

pops up like the souls of

47:07

the underground, right?

47:09

Rising the blood of the dead,

47:11

right?

47:13

That iconic line that I

47:15

think has

47:17

some weight in this movie in a big way

47:20

that I don't know what Kubrick meant by it. He

47:22

was writing this movie as he was shooting it. I

47:25

mean that's well documented. There's

47:27

a little mini documentary that his daughter

47:31

Vivian did while shooting

47:33

and did a lot of cool B-roll of

47:35

it. That's about an hour long if

47:37

you want to go look that up too. It's really, really cool

47:40

to see Jack Nicholson pumping himself

47:42

up before throwing the axe in the wall. I

47:45

love that. It's really

47:48

good. He

47:50

was writing this up to the moment. What

47:53

do you think that

47:56

line of white man's burden

47:58

is?

47:59

White man's burden,

48:01

white man's burden, boy, white man's burden, you

48:03

know, and they're talking about women there. I don't think

48:05

it's like a sexist, like

48:08

the whole point of this movie is women suck

48:10

and this woman sucked the life out of me so I'm gonna

48:12

murder my family. Like that's too odd,

48:14

like out there on the nose, obvious

48:17

upfront for Stanley Kubrick, I feel like.

48:19

But I feel like there is something about

48:21

like the, I

48:24

don't know, American, Native

48:26

American, white man genocides

48:29

type thing happening here maybe, and

48:32

some kind of symbolism there. And

48:35

maybe that's too obvious with just some

48:37

of the paintings you see around the

48:40

Overlook Hotel and some of the, some

48:42

of the things that are said throughout the movie,

48:44

but

48:46

I don't know. I mean, to me, that's

48:49

a pretty, I don't likely thing.

48:52

And again, you look at the character

48:55

of Danny,

48:57

he only wears red, white, and blue

48:59

throughout the movie. You notice that? All

49:01

of his clothes in different forms, different

49:03

shirts, different sweaters,

49:06

over shirts, things like that. It's always,

49:08

we're always wearing red, white, and blue. I don't know

49:10

if

49:11

he's some kind of symbol for America or

49:13

us or something like that. I

49:16

think there's something there. Also,

49:18

you know, I talked about Kubrick

49:21

not letting anything slip through

49:23

the cracks when it comes to what's in the movie, what's

49:26

on screen. He left everything in focus too. He

49:30

never shot anything with

49:33

any kind of character in close up and the

49:35

background blurred, right? Kind of

49:37

depth of field with his stuff.

49:40

Everything you see, right? I

49:43

think it's trying

49:46

to paint a little bit bigger picture, right? So

49:48

some of the items you do see throughout the

49:50

hotel at different moments in the different scenarios.

49:54

I wrote some of these down as I was watching it just because

49:56

they started to really stick out to me on this

49:59

last rewatch. You've got Marlboro

50:01

cigarettes, Coca-Cola, Jack Daniels,

50:04

Tang, Heinz, Louisville Slugger,

50:07

Kool-Aid, Oreo, Country Time

50:09

Lemonade, right? All these iconic

50:12

American companies just

50:15

out front in this movie for

50:17

some reason. All like brand

50:19

names too. It's not like, oh, it's

50:23

Red Apple cigarettes or whatever Tarantino

50:26

universe branded. To

50:28

me that's for a reason. I don't

50:30

know what that is, but I

50:33

think he was trying to say something about American

50:36

life, American guilt, American –

50:41

the American dream, something like that

50:43

with this –

50:45

using the construct of

50:47

Jack Torrance and the Overlook. I

50:50

don't know. The maze – I think the labyrinth in

50:52

the maze is a big, big

50:54

symbolic thing here too

50:57

where the only way to truly

51:00

learn – to truly

51:02

defeat your demons is to learn from your past,

51:04

right? The whole thing

51:06

of Danny covering up his tracks in

51:08

the snow is a whole very big symbolism

51:10

thing. I don't need to point that out to anyone,

51:12

but I think there's a big,

51:15

big thing with the maze and the Overlook. And

51:18

some symbolism there somewhere along the

51:20

lines that I can't – I don't know.

51:22

I think –

51:24

I've got a few things on that. One,

51:26

I was never very good at symbolism

51:28

in like English

51:31

class or whatever. I always got very

51:34

frustrated because I loved

51:36

reading, loved writing, loved English. And then

51:38

you'd occasionally – I had a teacher. I

51:40

think my 11th grade English

51:42

teacher was just like

51:45

a freak for symbolism and it drove me

51:47

insane because she would just – it felt like everything –

51:51

I would enjoy whatever we were reading and

51:53

then she would be like, well, here's the symbolism of literally

51:56

every word in this book, you know? And you're just like, oh my gosh.

51:58

I just – can I just – can we just –

51:59

I just read the freaking book.

52:02

I was never graded identifying

52:05

all that stuff. Number

52:08

two, I definitely think, you're right, I think there's

52:10

for sure some stuff in here

52:12

that

52:14

you can get to the heart of if you wanna try or

52:16

you can think you're getting to the heart of. Number

52:19

three, I definitely think he was messing with people too. I

52:22

think that's part of it. And

52:24

I see, like the Apollo 11 sweater

52:26

to me is like the greatest, the most obvious example.

52:29

I'm not that smart. And so the Apollo 11 sweater

52:32

that Danny's wearing is so clear to me

52:34

of it's a wink and

52:36

a nod and a you dummies

52:39

that you're gonna obsess over this and

52:42

you're gonna say that it's me

52:45

admitting to helping to fake the moon landing but really

52:47

this is me just making fun of you. It's

52:49

hard for me to watch something like Dr. Strange.

52:52

So let me put it this way, I didn't watch Dr. Strange

52:54

until we did that episode,

52:56

however many years ago that was. I

52:58

don't think I'd ever seen it beforehand. And

53:01

that movie sort of reframed

53:04

some of the, watching

53:07

some of the other Kubrick movies for me.

53:09

Yeah, because there's some real joy, it's not to interrupt

53:11

but. No, no. It can come off as pretentious

53:14

because of a subunit but there's like a weird

53:16

satirical nature to him. Yes, yes.

53:18

That is only really overt

53:21

in Dr. Strange Love and once you see that you

53:23

see it in the other movies and you go, oh

53:25

boy, okay, this guy. That's exactly right. He's

53:29

smirking while he does this. He's not

53:31

showing you how smart he is. He's like, it's

53:33

for a laugh which makes him so much more enjoyable, sorry.

53:36

No, no, but that's 100% what I mean. Watching

53:39

that movie sort of, this movie in particular

53:41

because I'm more familiar with it than I am, Clockwork

53:44

Orange or Foil and Well Jacket or whatever

53:46

and it's just so much more significant

53:50

culturally but for me immediately,

53:52

watching Dr. Strange Love for the first time really

53:55

all the way through, I was like, so

53:57

much more clicked into place for me. The

54:00

Shining and it it really I don't

54:02

know. I know you we've we may have

54:04

even talked about that the doc the room

54:07

237 documentary that came out a few years

54:09

ago, and

54:10

I watched that and and I

54:12

mean it's well made It's it's enjoyable and stuff,

54:15

but there were for me There was a point

54:17

at which and I don't I don't know where it was but at a

54:19

certain point I was like, okay, we've we've

54:21

gone too far here. We're we are digging

54:23

too deep into every L This has

54:26

become my junior year English

54:28

teacher type stuff And I I think

54:31

there's a one guy who thought it was about some stuff that

54:33

he just met there one guy who thought it was about

54:35

like Suppressed

54:38

homosexuality thing I didn't see

54:40

that like honestly and yeah Of

54:43

all the ones I that was the one that

54:45

I didn't see the most. I mean there's

54:47

hints of like sexual abuse

54:49

between Danny and and Jack in

54:52

the movie and that Maybe you can

54:55

point there, but I don't think that's the overarching.

54:57

I Mean the evidence

54:59

is less convincing for that Conspiracy

55:01

theory than even the moon landing one to

55:04

be a quail. I told you I

55:07

can get on more on board with oh yeah,

55:09

I can see how he put some some

55:11

Easter eggs of of

55:14

You know room 237 being

55:17

Two 237 thousand miles

55:20

away, you know small things like that that

55:22

you know wink and a nod maybe but

55:24

also You know true

55:26

Easter eggs and true things that he did put in the movie.

55:29

That's right. Yeah Tang that

55:32

being the astronaut stuff, you know things like

55:34

that that's that

55:36

There's more an argument for that than there is

55:38

Like like Stuart Omen is his is

55:41

his suppressed gay lover and you

55:43

know, right? I don't right I mean come on like

55:46

again. What do you think? Who do you think Stuart Omen represents?

55:48

I mean look he looks exactly like

55:51

JFK

55:52

Cosplay and you've got a huge American

55:54

flag on his on his desk. Like what

55:58

are they trying to say? It

56:00

doesn't make any sense to me, you know, like yeah,

56:03

but again, I only believe in any conspiracy

56:06

theory and we're seeing I mean It's it's

56:08

just conspiracy theory stuff conspiracy

56:12

theory culture has gone from

56:14

Kind of a funny

56:16

side thing to like oh my

56:18

god We're this is actually terrifying over the last

56:20

few years, but regardless I think it's with

56:23

with almost any conspiracy theory if

56:25

you want to believe a thing you

56:27

can find evidence for that thing You know and

56:30

and especially when you're talking about a

56:32

movie or a book symbolism within a book

56:34

If you if you want to believe that the

56:36

symbolism for whatever it is that you want

56:38

to believe is there you can find it It's just

56:41

is you know, is that movie is the movie actually

56:44

saying that and for me my take

56:46

on it Is that I definitely there's some

56:49

parts of it there. They're true, but I

56:51

don't think I Think

56:53

Hoover was just trying to mess with everybody's head Yeah

56:55

with all these because you're totally right like he there

56:58

is no Frame and we always talk

57:00

about like the mark of a great screenplay is

57:02

that there's no there's no or a great movies

57:04

There's no wasted shot, right? There's no

57:06

race page on it on the on

57:08

the screenplay and there's there's no way to shot like there's

57:11

not one thing in frame that Ever

57:14

in in this movie in particular, but but

57:16

pretty much any Kubrick movie that he

57:18

did not purposefully put there There's no

57:20

accidental. Oh, wow. We caught this or whatever.

57:22

I mean, there's a reason for everything that it's done

57:25

I just think a lot of times in

57:27

this movie in particular The reason

57:29

was these idiots will obsess on

57:31

their three years, you know

57:34

Yeah, no, it's almost like a meta movie

57:36

But by the way, he made a classic while he's trying to

57:39

do a meta commentary right like

57:41

you said with Aronofsky He's

57:43

meanwhile. He's also making a super watchable

57:47

If

57:49

you never want to pick up on those things at all You

57:51

do not you don't have to it's not being thrown

57:53

in your face the whole time There

57:56

are some just incredibly iconic

57:59

moments

57:59

in the movie and the way Kubrick sets them

58:02

up is just truly genius

58:04

the way he directed the film. First

58:07

of all, something I really noticed this

58:09

last rewatch is how he repeats the

58:11

shot of the gold room every single

58:13

time, like that long dolly shot down the

58:15

hallway and then that horizontal

58:18

shot walking across

58:20

the gold room to the bar. He does it

58:22

three times when they're introducing

58:24

him to the hotel,

58:27

right? Or walking him

58:29

through with Wendy

58:31

and they meet Dick Haller in there and all

58:33

that. Then

58:35

Jack goes by himself, right, and sees

58:38

Lloyd in an empty bar, same

58:40

exact camera shot, right? Same

58:42

exact camera movement, different time, different scenario.

58:45

And then does it again the third time

58:47

as an entirely full gold room.

58:50

And dude, I got chills this last time when

58:53

he did that. I was like, that is so cool

58:55

because you don't expect it because you've

58:57

been to this place twice before in this movie and

58:59

it's been the same both times, an empty place

59:02

and then that reveal of the completely

59:04

full party there. And

59:07

the way Nicholson just walks through like it's this

59:10

dream, I mean that whole

59:12

scenario, that whole

59:14

sequence of going there

59:16

and getting the things built on him and then going back into

59:18

the red bathroom with

59:21

Grady and all that stuff is just so

59:24

perfect, man. Another

59:26

thing that he does to set up

59:28

a reveal in

59:30

the movie is the mirror in the apartment.

59:35

He uses it to great effect

59:38

early in the movie when Wendy kind of walks in and

59:40

you see Jack laying in bed and he

59:42

thinks it's through a door but it's actually a mirror, right?

59:45

And he uses it again when Danny comes in the

59:47

room. There's some cool perspective

59:50

shots of the mirror early in the movie but it really

59:52

doesn't pay off until the end or near

59:54

the end when Danny's sleepwalking

59:57

in there right to Red Rum and then his mom

59:59

wakes up. looks in the mirror and sees murder,

1:00:01

right? So this whole mirror thing had to

1:00:04

be set up in some convincing

1:00:06

cool way beforehand for it to make

1:00:08

sense why she would look at this mirror, why this

1:00:10

mirror would be significant. So those types

1:00:12

of things that he thought about and

1:00:15

really emphasized make all the difference.

1:00:18

And he really understands

1:00:21

like movie

1:00:23

making. That's a

1:00:25

simple way to put it, but I think

1:00:29

some people just know the language better

1:00:32

than others. And yeah, he did. And

1:00:34

in a lot of ways he – and to that

1:00:36

point, but also add into it. In a lot of ways,

1:00:38

he invented the language. Right. Great

1:00:41

point.

1:00:42

Great, great point.

1:00:43

Another funny

1:00:46

thing is how Laron's

1:00:48

coming back this whole time. He's trying to call

1:00:50

the overlook, can't get through, spends –

1:00:53

he spent all this time cutting back to

1:00:55

him, flying across the country, renting

1:00:57

cars, doing all this stuff. He

1:01:00

finally shows the overlook and then Jack immediately

1:01:02

acts as him. It's such a Kubrick

1:01:04

thing to do, right? It's like

1:01:06

all this time you think this guy's going to save the

1:01:09

day and then he just gets axed in the freaking

1:01:11

chest immediately. It's so

1:01:14

funny. It's such a Hitchcock killing

1:01:17

the girl in the first act kind of thing. It's like

1:01:19

this was for nothing. This is because you

1:01:21

expected something to happen that it's not going

1:01:23

to happen. Sorry. This is not the same kind of movie

1:01:26

you're expecting. And at

1:01:28

the same time, I do think he's making final horror movies.

1:01:31

I think one of the final shots

1:01:33

of the film of

1:01:35

the frozen Jack Nicholson head, I think that's

1:01:37

for a laugh, honestly. It looks so dumb

1:01:39

and ridiculous. But

1:01:42

Brian, I wanted to ask you – we'll

1:01:44

wrap this up here

1:01:46

pretty quick. I wanted to ask you though, the

1:01:49

bathtub scene's pretty intense.

1:01:53

Did that scare you at all or you

1:01:55

knew what to expect? It probably creeped me out the first time I saw

1:01:57

it. Now you just kind of –

1:01:59

it's –

1:01:59

It's not something that

1:02:02

sticks with you. I will tell you that – probably

1:02:04

because I just haven't seen it as many times. But rewatching

1:02:07

Dr. Sleep today, the way that they do

1:02:09

The

1:02:09

Woman in the Bathtub a

1:02:12

couple times in that is

1:02:14

creepier I think long

1:02:16

term than it's done in the show.

1:02:19

Dr. Sleep love it or hate it. We don't need to go into

1:02:21

that too. It's such an interesting film in terms

1:02:23

of conceptually. It's almost like a meta-commentary

1:02:26

sequel.

1:02:27

Yeah, it's like such –

1:02:29

where it fits in relation to its original

1:02:32

four construct is so interesting.

1:02:34

Yeah, the way they went about that was awesome.

1:02:37

It'd be like making a Star

1:02:39

Wars movie that was about the

1:02:41

engine on the Millennium Falcon or something. I'm

1:02:45

sorry. I didn't mean to give Disney that idea. I just

1:02:47

made 400. I

1:02:49

just made that a 10-part series. Wow. That's

1:02:52

cool. Yeah, no. The first time you see that

1:02:54

scene, it's pretty

1:02:57

disturbing because you know something's going to happen. By

1:03:00

the time you've seen The Shining, I would guess 99% of

1:03:04

first-time Shining viewers, this is not

1:03:06

the first horror movie they've ever seen. You

1:03:08

kind of know the beats,

1:03:10

right? You know – all right,

1:03:13

the music is swelling. You know something's going

1:03:15

to happen here. The score is

1:03:17

incredible. Oh my God. Again,

1:03:20

this last time, I'm like, God, it makes all

1:03:22

the difference. The setting, the tone

1:03:24

is that score. It's just so weird and different.

1:03:28

I mean, I'm glad they

1:03:30

used it in Dr. Sleep too. Like that – oh,

1:03:33

it's so good, man. I want this on vinyl. Perfect

1:03:35

utilization. It's the perfect weird

1:03:38

atmosphere, tense situation

1:03:41

soundtrack. I mean, it is so good, but that's

1:03:44

an aside. But go ahead. You

1:03:46

know something's going to happen in that scene, but you're

1:03:49

not quite sure what it's going to be. And then when it – you're

1:03:52

like, oh, gosh. It's pretty – so

1:03:55

very effective use of the

1:03:58

sort of jump scare and the – makeup

1:04:00

and all that sort of stuff. They're done very well. I

1:04:02

like you mentioned that

1:04:06

when oh now I've lost the character's

1:04:08

name I'm sorry the the chef's

1:04:10

character. Goodness

1:04:13

gracious. Yeah yeah thank you sorry goodness. When

1:04:16

he shows up and just immediately gets axed is

1:04:20

very kubergy but the to me like the

1:04:22

best point in this when I was looking through

1:04:24

the the notes when

1:04:26

I'm pretty sure it was Spielberg that said this that

1:04:30

I but I really appreciate it. It's so

1:04:32

smart to save that for that moment

1:04:34

rather than use it when when Wendy

1:04:37

is looking through

1:04:40

his book and it's just you know all

1:04:43

work and no play. You expect right there

1:04:46

that you're gonna get because of the way the camera

1:04:48

is focused in it's a tight focus and you expect

1:04:50

there that you're gonna get the

1:04:53

jump scare and him popping out and and

1:04:55

freaking around stuff but instead he pulls

1:04:58

the camera back behind the wall to show

1:05:00

Jack sort of slowly creeping around the

1:05:03

corner and so it's a different kind of. It's

1:05:05

so good when you're hollering just walk through the hotel.

1:05:07

Yeah exactly. Is anyone here? Is anyone here?

1:05:09

And it's just like oh you know something's

1:05:11

coming around the corner and here comes the ax. I

1:05:17

think that moment is is a little bit less

1:05:20

well a little bit less effective

1:05:23

if we've already had one of those you

1:05:25

know 30 minutes earlier or whatever when

1:05:27

she's looking through his manuscript. It's really

1:05:29

smart obviously. It turns

1:05:31

out he's good at making films but yeah it was

1:05:33

a really smart play in the midst of all

1:05:36

of the other good decisions that were made in this movie.

1:05:39

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1:06:35

This movie, man, it's an all-timer, masterpiece.

1:06:39

I'm gonna save it for next year. I'm not gonna watch it again

1:06:41

until maybe this time next year, maybe not until

1:06:43

later, because I love it. I find

1:06:46

something new every time. And I

1:06:48

think that's true with most Kubrick movies for

1:06:50

me, though. I

1:06:53

don't know which one I watched the most. Probably

1:06:55

Eyes Wide Shut. I've probably

1:06:57

seen- It's not for the sex,

1:06:59

it's for the mask. Yeah, it's

1:07:01

great masks. I've

1:07:04

probably seen 2001 the most times, but

1:07:08

I don't know. Which

1:07:11

one's the most rewatchable? Probably

1:07:13

this one. I

1:07:15

don't know, there's something about it. And again, I'm glad Dr. Sleep came out. And

1:07:17

plus, it's got a seasonal aspect to it. Yeah,

1:07:20

and I'm glad Dr. Sleep came out so we can, again,

1:07:23

Brian, you pointed it out earlier, that we can just live

1:07:25

in this universe and the

1:07:27

world it's created and the world beyond

1:07:29

the movie is really interesting, that

1:07:31

I'm glad we're getting to explore it now. One

1:07:34

other note I had,

1:07:37

do you think the

1:07:38

Jurassic Park scene

1:07:41

with the, under the stainless

1:07:43

steel, kids hiding in the

1:07:45

cabinets, I don't know, I

1:07:47

think that was maybe an homage, like a subconscious

1:07:50

level. Yeah, it is, it definitely is. I

1:07:52

think Spielberg is- I don't think there's any hiding in the stainless

1:07:54

steel thing. I noticed that this time, I was

1:07:56

like, gosh, there's gotta be a connection there.

1:07:59

I know Spielberg's a big-

1:07:59

Kubrick guy

1:08:01

of course made AI. It's so funny that they're so

1:08:03

tight and and I mean not funny

1:08:05

but that they Were

1:08:08

such good friends and they were made

1:08:10

AI. They make completely different kinds of movies. It's

1:08:13

just yeah, it's great

1:08:15

I'd rather watch

1:08:16

Yeah, I'd rather Spielberg be friends with

1:08:19

with

1:08:20

Kubrick over George Lucas

1:08:23

Yeah, can you imagine if Kubrick was still alive man? I

1:08:26

think he'd be still cranking out

1:08:28

some some awesome movies Well,

1:08:30

this has been the shining again. We do these throwbacks

1:08:33

every week here on Mad About Movies

1:08:36

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1:08:38

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Let's grade this one out Brian, what are you gonna give this shining?

1:09:01

Maybe like a C C plus C

1:09:04

plus my there's a genre No,

1:09:07

this is an a-plus. I mean you mentioned Halloween.

1:09:09

I think that's probably One

1:09:11

and two or two and one

1:09:14

different there are different genres of Halloween's number

1:09:16

one. Yeah, lasher movie I think this is number

1:09:18

one like Yeah,

1:09:21

and then I don't know what you do with jaws how you classify

1:09:23

that yeah, that's another one that it's oh

1:09:25

I mean, there's all kinds of

1:09:28

Sub genre and categorization within

1:09:30

this genre, but if if you

1:09:32

just lump them all together, it's a horror movie I think this

1:09:34

is the best horror movie ever made so that

1:09:37

it gets it gets an a plus for me

1:09:40

Same a plus for me Richard a

1:09:42

plus There

1:09:43

you go. Three a plus is for the shining

1:09:46

glad we finally have this conversation It's been

1:09:48

long overdue and it's one of the great movies

1:09:50

of all time. Thanks for listening Please

1:09:53

become a VIP, please leave us a five-star

1:09:55

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1:09:57

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1:09:59

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1:09:59

Gotta laugh out of the episode, something like

1:10:02

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1:10:04

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