This is the first part of a multi-part interview with Roger Hallam, co-founder of Extinction Rebellion, an environmental movement which is using nonviolent civil disobedience to force government action around the climate crisis. 

This episode marked kind of a watershed for the Make World project, in that it galvanised both some of my own personal thinking around system change, and suggested what could be a new way forward for the project -- more on that soon. 

This episode was recorded with Roger in person, at his farm in South Wales, UK. We discuss: the need for radical change, and what history can teach us about how and under what circumstances change happens; how Roger sees XR's programme as part of a moral imperative, one he argues is 'beyond' politics; and we dig a little bit into the detail of the 'Citizens' Assembly' XR proposes to deliberate on the massive challenges facing us as a society -- how Citzen's Assemblies would work in practice, and some recent examples suggestive of their efficacy.