0:00

You're listening too. Mama

0:03

Mia Podcast. Mama Mia

0:05

acknowledges the traditional owners of

0:07

the land we have recorded this podcast

0:09

on. the categorical people of the

0:11

nation. We pay our respects

0:13

to their elders, past, and present, and

0:16

extend that respect to all aboriginal

0:18

and torres strait islander cultures.

0:24

Hello, and welcome to Muralia

0:26

out loud. It's what women are talking about.

0:28

On Friday, the thirtieth of September,

0:30

I'm Holly Wainwright. I'm Jesse Stevens,

0:33

and you might know me Claire Murphy from

0:35

such other podcasts as The Quickie. Billing

0:37

in for me, Friedman. We've had such a

0:39

massive response to your story about

0:42

the unhelpful GP advice from

0:44

Wednesday their Murphy. So I

0:46

know the outliers want me to thank you

0:48

for your vulnerability and it reflected

0:50

back so much of what they were thinking.

0:52

Can I quickly just thank them back? Because my inbox

0:55

is full of gloriously wonderful humans

0:57

who are so incredibly supportive

0:59

in giving me great hints and tips and advice

1:01

and are being just

1:04

brilliant. So thank you. And the GPs

1:06

have reached out as well. Very interesting conversations

1:08

going on. So thank you, everybody. Listen

1:11

back to Wednesday's episode if you

1:13

don't know what we're talking about. But on

1:15

the show today, have we

1:17

reached Peak Mental Health? And

1:21

Chloe Kardashian and when bad relationships

1:24

are shame on you.

1:26

And our best and worst of the week, which include

1:28

making friends, wedding dresses, and

1:30

negative feedback.

1:32

But first, I have a question

1:34

for Jesse Stevens. Did

1:36

you know just how desperately fashionable

1:39

you are, Jesse Stevens? fashion loves

1:41

twins. They always have. Really

1:43

love twins this week. Yes. I've been

1:45

sent a particular story from

1:48

so many outliers I

1:50

am me.

1:51

She is she

1:53

except when I pretend I'm

1:55

her. And when we

1:58

switch, you can't tell,

1:59

which is which.

2:02

You don't know who you're talking to,

2:04

because we're identical.

2:07

Identical twins. Gucci,

2:09

very, very fancy fashion label,

2:12

sent sixty eight pairs

2:15

of identical twins down the runway

2:17

at Milan Fashion Week

2:19

this week. The audience wasn't

2:21

even aware they were watching twins because they were

2:23

like observers seated between

2:25

two different rooms with the screen dividing,

2:27

but the whole point is that these models

2:29

looked exactly the

2:31

same. And apparently Gucci sent

2:33

a secret scouting party to Wednesday,

2:36

which is an annual twins convention

2:38

that takes place in Twinsburg, Ohio. And

2:40

I don't know why you and your sister Claire haven't been

2:42

Jesse. But my question for you

2:44

is,

2:46

Do you feel celebrated or fetishized

2:49

by your big fashion moment?

2:51

My first reaction was I am not a freak

2:53

show. and it can feel a bit freak

2:56

showy esque. And I think that

2:58

most twins will know the feeling of being

3:00

described as twenties and everyone

3:02

asks you the same questions and all that kind of

3:04

stuff. And I kinda

3:06

looked at it and everyone's goal king

3:09

I don't know. Like, I know even it's all a bit

3:11

of fun. It can be a little

3:13

bit dehumanizing, I think, to just be like,

3:15

oh, look at these breaks, look exactly the same,

3:18

walking down the runway. and fashion has done

3:20

it before. There was another show

3:22

years ago where and it was actually a pretty cool

3:24

concept, but someone was walking down

3:26

the runway and then out of

3:28

the audience would come someone who was

3:31

their identical twin and come onto

3:33

the runway as well and everyone was going, oh my

3:35

goodness. I get it. It's pretty

3:37

incredible that two people can look so

3:39

so alike. But my thing was as

3:41

well that all of these twins also

3:44

had the bodies and the look of

3:46

professional models. Like, they

3:48

were all six foot tall and

3:50

very very thin. So I couldn't believe

3:52

they could find that many twins who fit that

3:54

type as well. How many of them do you reckon

3:57

have PTSD after that? Like,

3:59

you know how

3:59

moms dress their twins in me the same outfits

4:02

for, like, years and years and years and here they are

4:04

straddling the runways in matching outfits.

4:06

I wonder if that was very triggering for

4:08

them. Claire and I had to do a shoot

4:10

recently for a work thing, and we

4:12

were asked, bring a few outfit options. And

4:14

can you just bring, like, if you guys just have, like,

4:17

the same outfit. Can you bring that? We might put them in the

4:19

same outfit, and we were like,

4:20

we don't have, like, a twin

4:23

a portion in our wardrobe where it's like,

4:25

Here's our cute twin overalls,

4:27

like mom dressing us all the same when we

4:29

were five. No. We

4:31

have rebelled against that even though we sometimes

4:33

accidentally turn up in exactly the same

4:35

thing. Well, maybe you should get yourselves a Gucci

4:38

outfit. Yes. Any type of

4:40

ongoing work that improves your mental health

4:42

is therapeutic. anything that

4:44

helps you become more comfortable, being

4:46

uncomfortable. It won't be quick or

4:48

easy, and it's pretty tough to do alone.

4:50

I have an unpopular idea I'd

4:52

like to work through

4:53

with you both.

4:55

There was an article in The New York Times

4:57

recently with the headline we

4:59

have reached peak mental health.

5:02

And it was intentionally

5:05

designed to get people attention

5:07

because I know a lot of people who even the headline,

5:09

pissed them off a bit. The author,

5:11

who's a clinical psychologist, argues

5:14

that talking about mental health has been

5:16

enormously positive in a bunch of ways and

5:18

he does list them. But he

5:20

says the term mental health is so

5:22

vague and it's so thrown around

5:24

that it's now used to mean a

5:26

lot of different things. It conflates a

5:28

whole lot of various issues together.

5:31

And while all of us can work on and

5:33

invest in our mental health, we do

5:35

not all have a mental illness.

5:37

And he writes that there are feelings that are unavoidable,

5:40

they're purposeful, or they're morally

5:41

significant.

5:43

and suffering

5:44

is not a mental illness.

5:46

This might sound obvious, but

5:49

I was thinking about how we discuss

5:51

therapy and he uses this as an example. A

5:53

woman named doctor Emily Anault

5:55

did a very popular TED talk where she

5:57

proposes that everyone should

5:59

try therapy.

5:59

Have you ever wished that your family

6:02

had done the work to build better tools

6:04

or that your boss was a little more self aware,

6:07

or that your partner was a better communicator?

6:09

Well,

6:09

the pure magic of it is, by doing this

6:12

work on yourself, you are breaking the

6:14

cycle. Things will change around you.

6:16

She suggested on Twitter recently that

6:18

therapy should be a prerequisite for

6:20

anyone becoming a parent. Apart

6:23

from being unrealistic, my

6:26

question was whether that in

6:28

tantalizing to

6:29

think that someone can't be a good

6:31

parent without psychological intervention.

6:34

So look, I suppose what I'm getting at is

6:37

and it's something that Freddie DeBower

6:39

has written about in his newsletter this week

6:41

as well. is a totally

6:43

permissive mental health culture where

6:46

everyone is sick and struggling.dangerous.

6:49

Does this cause more harm than

6:51

good? And to the people with acute

6:53

issues, I'm thinking

6:55

chronic crippling depression, schizophrenia,

6:58

or bipolar, do they

7:00

get lost in a world where

7:02

we are all always pathologizing

7:05

our pain? I don't know how I

7:07

feel about living in a world

7:09

where many people believe

7:12

deeply that there is something wrong with them.

7:14

Claire Murphy. am I wrong?

7:16

I think there's a few ways to look at this.

7:18

One is mental health

7:20

and the surrounding

7:23

or adjacent topics have become

7:25

very popular because of

7:27

things like TikTok, for example.

7:30

Five, ten years ago, we wouldn't have talked about taking

7:32

mental health days from work and or

7:34

the traumas that have shaped the people that we

7:36

have become. So it's become very trendy to

7:38

talk about mental health. But

7:40

that has not removed the

7:42

stigma for those who have legitimate

7:45

mental health issues. So

7:48

people who suffer from them

7:50

are still disproportionately representative

7:53

in homeless populations, for example,

7:55

they're still disproportionately represented in

7:57

the prison system. So there

7:59

is two Sides of this, there are

8:01

people with legitimate mental health issues who

8:03

are still stigmatized and those who find it

8:05

trendy to talk about how their trauma

8:07

has shaped them. And so

8:09

I feel like there is a saturation

8:11

point for talking about mental health

8:13

in this way, but I feel like we

8:15

have created this arena

8:19

where we all want to sort of shout

8:21

about it at this point.

8:23

And I think it'll probably fall out of favor

8:25

again at some stage, because we've gone through a long

8:27

period of never talking about it.

8:29

You know, in your workplace, for example,

8:31

you would never take a mental health day, and you would

8:33

never talk about how your work

8:35

is in acting your mental health. But now we

8:37

talk about it all the time and people are free

8:39

to kind of take more space for themselves

8:41

that they don't feel like their mental health

8:43

is suffering. There's only so

8:45

much trauma you can discuss before you

8:47

get to a point where you're like I can't

8:49

do this anymore, like it feels like it

8:51

gets a bit too much. But I feel

8:53

like that shouldn't take away from the fact that there

8:55

are genuinely people who are struggling. So

8:57

having these conversations is actually

8:59

quite helpful.

9:00

I wonder if this is one of those

9:02

things where sometimes you have to remember

9:05

how far we've come in

9:07

terms of what this sort of

9:09

complaint that there's too much discussion of

9:11

mental illness, how we

9:13

got here, and what we were pushing back against

9:15

to get here? Because if I think about

9:17

When I was young and I was in

9:20

my teenage years, nobody

9:22

talked about mental health. We had a

9:24

very specific idea in

9:26

our minds of what a mentally

9:29

ill and inverted commas person looked

9:31

like and acted like and

9:33

they were as Claire you just

9:35

touched on. at the very un fashionable

9:37

end of mental illness we would

9:39

consider and that, you know, I don't want this to

9:41

sound dismissive, but this is like literally the language you

9:43

would have thought of. somebody muttering to

9:45

themselves in the street and shouting at voices

9:47

that weren't there, and people

9:49

made a lot of jokes about that

9:51

kind of presentation about mental

9:53

health. And we didn't

9:55

necessarily think that people who were

9:57

struggling with their mental health could hold down a

9:59

job or a

10:01

relationship or be a productive

10:03

member of society because we

10:05

had such narrow parameters

10:07

for what we thought negative

10:09

mental health was. now where we're

10:11

at all these years

10:13

later and obviously the big

10:15

issue here too is social media and

10:17

the impact of that. Is it a

10:19

place where almost if you don't

10:21

have something that could be termed? Something

10:24

on the poor mental health front, whether

10:26

it's an incident, or a

10:28

condition. You're a little bit

10:30

vanilla. I was talking to my

10:32

daughter about this the other day, and she's

10:34

only twelve. And she was talking to

10:36

me about people, not necessarily people

10:38

she knows directly, but, I guess, maybe,

10:40

parasocial relationships. Of

10:42

why there are so many young girls

10:45

talking about how sad they are

10:47

on their social media all the time.

10:50

And we were discussing why that

10:52

might be. And it

10:54

made me realize that, you know, for

10:56

adolescents, because I know there's a lot of hand wringing

10:58

about what this is doing to adolescent girls in

11:00

particular in terms of making

11:02

them think that they have conditions

11:04

that they may or may not have is

11:06

all girls that age want two things

11:08

they want to be completely unique

11:10

and exactly the same as everybody

11:12

else. And so if everybody around

11:14

them is getting attention and

11:16

DeBoer talks about this, that there are influencers

11:18

who have built their followings on

11:21

mental illness. But at a much lower level

11:23

than that, there are just people, all of us who

11:25

know that when you share something vulnerable and

11:27

something sad and honest, you get

11:29

a lot of traction. If that's what

11:31

the currency is, which it is, then you can see why

11:34

adolescent girls would be like, I wanna be like

11:36

Betty who's been talking about

11:38

how sad she's been lately in getting all this

11:40

attention. So I guess I can

11:42

see the downside

11:44

of that to a point

11:46

But

11:46

holding it up against where we came from, which

11:49

was zero understanding of mental illness,

11:51

and that when people did have

11:53

an incident of mental

11:55

ill health, them

11:56

panicking and not understanding it at all and

11:58

worrying what it said about them because the

11:59

only thing they knew about it was that your life

12:02

would be over and before you knew it, you

12:04

would be one of these

12:06

caricature I'm talking about mothering to

12:08

yourself on the street has

12:09

to be a good thing, really. I'm

12:12

really in two minds about it because all

12:14

the research says that

12:16

interventions, particularly with kids,

12:18

makes a massive, massive difference

12:20

and that you see if those

12:22

interventions don't happen, whether it's

12:24

addiction or some

12:26

coping mechanism that can cause a whole

12:28

host of other issues in adulthood. But

12:30

then at the same time, I was

12:33

reading about millennial

12:34

suicide rates that

12:36

are going up, and I thought millennials

12:38

were the most literate when

12:40

it came to mental health before the

12:42

Gen Z came along. And so

12:44

this idea that

12:47

always talking about our mental

12:49

health a spike in diagnoses

12:51

and

12:51

treatment and therapy

12:53

is fundamentally and intrinsically

12:56

good and helpful is

12:58

something that maybe

12:59

needs to be put under the microscope because

13:01

it the facts don't seem to be suggesting

13:03

that. I don't know what the answer is

13:05

at all because I I completely agree. I don't think

13:07

the answer is that you don't diagnose

13:09

people and I'm not suggesting for a

13:11

moment that anyone who's listening that has

13:13

a diagnosis doesn't actually have

13:15

that diagnosis or that we should question

13:17

people diagnosis. I just

13:19

wonder if it's actually doing what it

13:21

says it's doing because I'm not sure people

13:23

are feeling better. And there was a really good

13:26

point that devour made as well, which is

13:28

that society cannot

13:30

possibly give special accommodation to

13:32

everyone. It's not how a society works.

13:34

And so what happens when you're nearing one hundred

13:37

percent of people who

13:39

require those special accommodations due

13:41

to a mental health issue,

13:43

which

13:43

I think is again an interesting question

13:45

that I do not have the answer to.

13:49

Hey.

13:49

This is Rose from Melbourne. I've

13:52

been listening to Roma Mia for

13:54

a very, very long time. been

13:56

a great part of my life. I had to stop

13:59

listening during

13:59

lockdown because I felt as

14:02

though Melbourne was

14:04

in such a weird strange

14:06

space that I stopped being

14:08

able to read or watching

14:10

or even listen to things. Like, all I could

14:12

do is kind of continue press

14:14

conferences. I decided to start

14:16

listening again this year, and I'm really,

14:18

really glad I did. Sorry.

14:20

Thanks for your amazing work, ladies.

14:23

going

14:24

through what I went through with Tristan was

14:26

incredibly

14:27

hard. The hardest part

14:29

about it all is training

14:32

yourself

14:32

to unlove someone. This

14:34

was my life for

14:35

six years, and

14:37

so learning how to undo all

14:39

the things that takes time. Just

14:41

because someone does you dirty doesn't mean you fall

14:43

out of love with them instantly. At what

14:46

point is being in a terrible

14:48

relationship it with an awful human your

14:50

fault. Always

14:51

ever? Today,

14:53

Chloe

14:53

Kardashian, the guru we always look to

14:55

for guidance on navigating the world, of

14:58

course. answered where that

15:00

line was for her. So

15:01

I'm not entirely ophae

15:04

on all of the ins and outs of

15:06

Chloe Kardashian's relationships. I

15:09

do have some other things happening in my

15:11

life, but I I dip in and out.

15:13

But what I do know is that

15:15

she has got two children

15:17

with a man who is clearly

15:19

not

15:19

very nice. I'm trying to use

15:22

nonjudgmental language. It's bloody, horrible.

15:24

Thank you. Thank

15:26

you. he has repeatedly cheated on

15:28

her, humiliated her publicly, all of

15:30

these things. Right? And

15:33

apparently on the show or on a trailer for the show

15:35

or something recently, She spoke

15:37

for the first time about

15:39

the fact that he proposed to her

15:41

last year after he cheated on her

15:43

and just before he was about to cheat on

15:45

her again, And she said yes,

15:47

but she didn't tell anyone because she

15:49

felt very guilty about it because she knew everyone

15:51

would think she was an idiot for

15:53

saying yes. This is what she said.

15:55

So when we're in the peak of our

15:57

relationship, you

15:58

go ahead and cheat on me. God,

15:59

like, I don't even wanna know what you do in the worst

16:02

of our relationship. I'm just like

16:04

shame on me almost.

16:06

I know

16:07

better and I didn't do better

16:10

because I had so much hope and

16:12

like faith So women everywhere who've been in love

16:14

with an awful human know this feeling. You're

16:16

not telling your friends and family what's going

16:18

on. You feel foolish, but you can't

16:20

bloody help it because you're kind of addicted.

16:22

And Chloe really knows his feeling because her

16:24

ex husband, so the guy before this guy,

16:27

also cheated in spectacular fashion. He was

16:29

suffering from severe addiction issues, so it's a

16:31

complicated sick situation, but there was a lot

16:33

of public humiliation there and she

16:35

helped him clean up that mess. So

16:37

here's my question. Chloe

16:39

Kardashian or Sylvia from accounts, is

16:41

it ever shame on

16:43

you for sticking with a shippable

16:45

narcissist. It's so complicated.

16:48

It really is. I

16:50

really feel chloe.

16:53

And you know what? No. I don't think it

16:55

is shame on

16:56

her and that sort of broke my heart a bit

16:59

hearing that because I have felt

17:01

exactly that shame is

17:03

such an unproductive

17:05

emotion that makes us

17:08

isolate ourselves and not tell people

17:10

what's going on. So In the past,

17:12

when I had, for example, been cheated

17:14

on or someone had treated me badly, and I

17:16

would tell my friends, and they would say,

17:19

breakup with him. And then I

17:21

wouldn't and then they would do something again, very

17:23

quickly, you learn to just stop

17:25

telling your friends. And because you can't be

17:27

honest with them, you sort of stop

17:28

hanging out with your friends. and

17:31

that can get very, very

17:32

dangerous. I remember

17:34

the impulse

17:36

to

17:37

wanna show my friends than

17:39

my family like I need you to know what this person's saying to

17:42

me because I feel like I

17:43

can't trust my own brain right

17:46

now because the

17:47

things that are said to you in those moments to

17:50

make you trust

17:50

them and make you forgive them are

17:53

often very

17:54

convincing or else you

17:56

wouldn't do

17:56

it. And so I

17:58

would

17:59

be completely

17:59

convinced. And then when they

18:02

did something more so

18:04

than feeling anger

18:05

towards them. I just

18:06

remember and I said this so many times,

18:09

like,

18:09

you have made me look stupid.

18:11

You have made me look

18:13

like I am an idiot. And

18:16

that is so so hurtful

18:19

when what

18:19

have you done? You've trusted someone who told you

18:21

to trust them and you've forgiven them. Which are

18:23

things that we are And that ends up with the

18:26

shame? Yes. And what and there are things that we're taught

18:28

of good qualities to give people

18:30

another go. you just kinda go

18:32

with your heart and

18:33

oftentimes it's wrong

18:37

and even having

18:39

a family member or whatever come

18:41

in and tell you

18:42

what's true

18:43

doesn't help. You've gotta learn it on your

18:46

own. Like, you kind of get there eventually and realize how bad it

18:48

was while you were in it. But

18:50

feeling shame or being shamed

18:53

by others in that situation I don't think is

18:55

helpful. What are you reckon Claire? I feel

18:57

like Chloe is the victim of

19:00

a few sort of societal

19:03

pressures. at this point. She's

19:05

in a family who

19:07

were all going through the same stage at the

19:09

same time. It seems except for Kendall who

19:11

is still apparently, very happily

19:13

non baby fib. But all

19:15

of the rest of her sisters are

19:17

partnering up. They're having babies.

19:20

doing the family thing. And Chloe's always kind of been

19:22

the outsider in amongst her own family. For

19:24

a long time, she was considered, you know, the biggest

19:26

or the most overweight or the

19:29

non exciting Kardashian, but she wants to stay

19:31

in the same lane as her sisters because

19:33

there's a pressure to do that

19:35

when the whole world's eyes

19:37

are upon you. And so they've reached the stage where

19:39

they wanna have kids and they wanna have families and they do

19:41

it all in the spotlight and she's already had one

19:44

child she wants to have another baby.

19:46

She has also fallen victim to something

19:48

that Some of my friends have also gone through

19:50

where they've stayed with an awful man so that they

19:52

can have a second child and have their kids

19:54

be full siblings. which is a pressure that a

19:56

lot of women feel they'll be judged

19:59

if they have

19:59

multiple baby dairies. So she's

20:02

gone through that as well.

20:04

And yes, She probably, in

20:06

hindsight, when she looks back at all of this, we'll go,

20:08

god, I was such an idiot. I knew all these things were

20:10

happening. I shouldn't have done this, and I shouldn't have

20:12

done that. and we all do that when we

20:14

come out of a shitty relationship. But

20:16

she's under such immense pressure

20:19

to perform in a way

20:21

that none of us have any idea how terrible

20:23

that must be, and she's

20:25

performing her life. in

20:28

front of us. But is there a time at

20:30

which it's fine for your friends and family,

20:32

whether your sister is Kim Kardashian or

20:34

whether it's Claire Stevens, Jesse's sister,

20:36

or whether it's any of our mates? When it's okay

20:38

to say, change your bloody

20:40

type, Chloe, Sylvia,

20:42

Jesse, change your bloody type

20:44

because This

20:46

is a pattern now. These guys are

20:48

doucheys and I know that no one wants to

20:50

hear it and I know certainly I've also

20:52

been in this situation and also

20:54

there's important distinction here that this is

20:57

not, you

20:57

know, physically abusive relationship to our

21:00

knowledge in any way, but these are bad

21:02

relationships. These guys are obviously very exciting.

21:05

But

21:05

doesn't Chloe and Sylvia have to stand

21:07

up at some point and go, I picked the wrong

21:10

bloody guys and it's my responsibility I

21:12

need to change tack. Like she

21:15

goes, like for

21:16

exactly the same time, like same career,

21:18

break away from Basketball is even

21:20

might be awful. And I know that she was spotted with

21:22

that super hot dude from that Netflix movie that

21:25

everyone frothed over last year, the very

21:27

sexy one. the Italian guy. And

21:29

it runs, like, seem like a good idea

21:31

that clearly doesn't, but it seems better

21:33

than a basketball player. Let's be

21:35

honest, because she has not had

21:37

great work with them, and neither has her sister

21:39

for that matter. I think all of her sisters have

21:41

dated a basketballer at some stage. Like,

21:43

it just feels like

21:45

Take a look at yourself for a minute, and this does that

21:48

offer because it's not Chloe's fault that

21:50

Tristan is an almighty douche bag.

21:52

Like, he has tried do some pretty manipulative

21:54

things and anyone who's been manipulated by

21:56

anybody, as you said, Jesse, knows

21:58

how much of the fairy tale it feels

21:59

like in the moment. and it's

22:02

only in hindsight that you realize how terrible it

22:04

was. But

22:04

it's like, you've got

22:06

to at some stage when you've had that

22:08

shot at your track record. go,

22:11

maybe some of my choices have been

22:13

a little dubious and

22:15

maybe I should try not to go

22:17

for the most exciting man or

22:19

the rich this man or the this man.

22:21

But in saying that, I'm not sure her

22:23

dating pool. Probably includes

22:24

a lot of men who fit into that genre. I

22:26

don't know. Basketball is a kind of like

22:29

the male. kardashians. Right?

22:31

They've got all of the tic tics

22:33

that the alpha males have and

22:35

also lots of money in status. You know

22:37

what's complicated too

22:39

is that we

22:40

date more now than we ever have

22:42

because of dating apps. And therefore, we

22:44

face more rejection, which I think has

22:46

an enormous impact on our self esteem. Right?

22:48

So Chloe's coming out of this relationship.

22:51

And the last one, self esteem

22:53

at zero because she

22:55

has really copied and

22:58

like, She's been on the receiving end of a

23:00

man who has manipulated her and betrayed

23:02

her trust and all of that. I

23:04

think it's

23:04

easier to make good decisions

23:06

when you like yourself? What's

23:08

hard is that when

23:10

you're coming at it from a place

23:12

of like such pain and

23:14

trying to find someone who will kind of fill that void, you're gonna make

23:17

terrible decisions. So it becomes

23:19

this self fulfilling prophecy cycle

23:21

thing where you just go, this feels

23:24

familiar to have a guy who never texts me on the

23:26

weekend, and then you find yourself in

23:28

exactly the same relationship over and

23:30

over again. You need a circuit

23:32

breaker, but I'm not

23:34

sure how you find that. You either need

23:36

a circuit breaker or you need to

23:38

just stop. Like, you just need to back out

23:40

of the dating world altogether.

23:42

How can

23:44

we get out loud? If you

23:46

wanna make out loud part of your

23:48

routine five days a week, we release

23:51

segments on Tuesdays and Thursdays

23:53

just for Mamma Mia, subscribe to

23:55

get full access, follow the link in the show notes,

23:57

and a big thank you to all

23:59

our

23:59

current subscribers.

24:08

It's

24:08

time for best and worst.

24:10

Class Murphy. You should go first.

24:12

Alright. Well, let's start with the worst.

24:14

I have always said to

24:16

my friends, if ever any of them want to

24:18

invent a service where they come to my house and fill my

24:20

car up with petrol, I will pay

24:22

them to

24:23

do that. I feel like

24:26

petrol

24:26

stations was having to stop, get

24:28

out of your car, stand by a car

24:30

for a length of time. Go in.

24:33

Like, it's just such a bloody

24:35

inconvenience. And so, petrol,

24:37

in all its way shapes forms annoys me. It's

24:40

expensive. It smells terrible. I shouldn't have to

24:42

rely on it. It's damaging the planet. Like,

24:44

all the things. Right? So when

24:47

you

24:47

know the excise was coming back that

24:49

they cut previously to help us out with

24:51

cost of living. And then immediately,

24:55

watching servos jack the price up. Some even

24:57

further than the twenty odd cents that

24:59

it was. God, I'm enraged. I

25:02

noticed my petrol station

25:04

was like, Before the exercise

25:06

even ended, they're like, yep. We're

25:08

now two dollars a liter, and I'm like,

25:10

you greedy, grubby

25:13

buggers. I despise

25:15

you even more today. So

25:17

my worst is petrol. Is that what

25:19

that's been about? I kept seeing

25:21

the lines, the queues of

25:23

people. And I was like, we queuing for petrol? Are we running

25:25

out? This is making me anxious. I'm just

25:27

gonna close my eyes, but now I understand.

25:30

I think of you, Jesse Stevens, every single

25:32

time I fill up my car with petrol, which is

25:34

often because of that time when you revealed

25:36

to us that when you put the

25:39

petrol thing in the car thing, listen to

25:41

me. Oh my god. I sound like the

25:43

worst kind of stereotypical woman.

25:45

When you put the nozzle in your car

25:47

and you hold the trigger, you

25:49

have to wait for the guide or

25:51

woman inside to press the go. I

25:53

had no idea until Jesse Stevens revealed this. I

25:56

didn't even know that the way the nearly

25:58

fifty years old about. Now every

25:59

time I fill up with petrol, which

26:02

is when too often and spending way too much

26:04

money. I'm standing there going, thank

26:06

God, Jesse, so we didn't play

26:08

that. I think the same thing and I often

26:09

make eye contact. like I know that you

26:12

are involved in this process. Yeah.

26:14

And I know that inside that store, there is an

26:16

awful sound going off that's telling you that I

26:18

wanna feel my car up with

26:20

petrol, and you're ignoring it. So Give us

26:22

your best class. Murphy. Alright. My best

26:24

is and many people might know that I moved

26:26

to the country. Last year?

26:29

What's it? You're before I can't remember. The

26:31

time is It was before I

26:33

did. COVID time has really

26:35

messed with my timeline. It

26:37

took me a really long time to get into this

26:40

community. It's a weird one because I live in

26:42

mining territory. So a lot of people come here to work

26:44

and then they leave. lot

26:46

of people don't drop their kids off at

26:48

school or pick them up. They're all bust in and out. Even

26:50

if you live like a street over, it's a

26:52

weird kind of vibe. I

26:54

also work from home, so I don't have any work

26:56

colleagues. And my husband is the boss at

26:58

his work, so he can't really befriend

27:00

his colleagues the way that he used to. So we've

27:02

really been devoid of

27:04

a social life here.

27:06

Weirdly, my child has

27:08

changed that because she

27:11

has been walking out to the car after school and

27:13

chatting to one of her classmates, moms,

27:15

because they have a very cute little puppy

27:17

that she likes to pat. And

27:19

one day, she came into the car and she

27:21

handed me a slipper paper and she said

27:23

that's Stella's mom's name and

27:25

phone number. You need to

27:28

call her. And I was

27:28

like, I love you. She said, you are not

27:31

a bitch. She's a bitch. She's a

27:33

bitch. I love her. I love her.

27:35

Match made me a friend and that is extended

27:37

to more friends in a bigger circle and

27:39

there are camping plans that have been made and

27:41

we go for dinners. and

27:43

there are girls drinks and there

27:46

are like barbecues and it's

27:48

just I have finally made

27:50

friends and it's a wonderful, glorious

27:52

thing, and I've met some incredible new

27:54

women that I can add to my circle. I

27:56

think it's such a lesson, Murphy.

27:58

in how actually

27:59

making friends takes

28:01

time.

28:02

Like, you don't form an instant

28:04

circle

28:04

of new friends in your old besties.

28:07

It takes a little while. That's what I've also found

28:09

moving to a new place. And it

28:11

feels good when you recognize that

28:13

and it starts to

28:14

kick in. No. It's formed

28:16

the cocolates of my heart. I'm

28:18

very happy. We did a subscriber episode

28:21

recently on super friends and what

28:23

makes someone a super friend. And that is

28:25

classic super friend

28:26

behavior. To put your name and number on a piece

28:28

of paper, more women should show as a

28:31

hardcore super friend. Oh, yeah.

28:33

Legend. My worst

28:35

this week has been wedding

28:37

dress shopping. Hate it. Hate

28:40

it. I've seen a video that your sister

28:42

has posted wedding shopping with your mom, which

28:44

is hilarious. Look. Mine's supposed to be

28:46

a joy, Jesse. No. No.

28:48

Joy. No. I hate shopping at the best of

28:50

times, and this is the worst of times.

28:52

This is I don't

28:54

really like looking at myself in the

28:56

mirror. I don't like getting

28:58

changed into new outfits. The

29:00

thing

29:00

about wedding dresses that everyone will tell you is that what you

29:02

like the look of won't suit you and what

29:04

you don't like the look of will

29:06

absolutely suit you. So then

29:08

in dress that you're like, I don't like

29:11

it, but it kind of

29:13

suits me anyway. Really weird

29:15

experience. don't like it. Why don't you

29:17

buy your wedding dress on the internet? Like, a

29:19

lot of people do now. I know. I

29:21

had to eat, cost me a hundred and twenty bucks.

29:24

Bargain. Bargain. Okay. My problem

29:26

is that, like, my body is

29:28

very weirdly proportioned, and that is

29:30

what tailors were invented. Exactly.

29:33

buy a dress you like and get it fitted for

29:35

you. Maybe if I go and just kind of know what

29:37

suits me, then I can go from there.

29:39

Because going into a shop and

29:41

spending hours is just I don't

29:43

like it. Little hinty hint by the

29:45

dresser size larger than what

29:47

you would normally buy, so the tailor

29:49

has things to work with. I have heard that. That

29:51

is a really good point. My

29:54

best has been

29:55

yesterday. I just

29:57

had such

29:58

a great day. I've spoken on this podcast. It

29:59

is so boring to hear people talk about how

30:02

busy they are, but I have

30:04

been trying to do five jobs

30:06

at once. really tired. And then I get

30:08

really grumpy and irritable with

30:10

people. And things fall off like you'd

30:12

start eating badly, you

30:14

know, exercising properly, sleep falls off then yet,

30:16

more moody, and it just is a

30:18

disaster.

30:18

Yesterday, I was in Melbourne

30:20

for the project, and I got in the night

30:23

before I had eight hours late. I

30:25

woke up

30:25

in the morning. I wrote my book

30:27

for an

30:28

hour. Then I went

30:29

to the gym.

30:31

where

30:31

I exercised and I got

30:34

endorphins shut up. I

30:36

think exercise might be really good

30:38

for your mental health. Just putting him to cover,

30:40

especially in the morning. No one says that.

30:42

I know. Trevor. I

30:44

know. I got that awful thing

30:46

people talk about and I went, oh, this

30:48

is weird. It's like I have taken a

30:50

drug. And then I went to

30:52

a cafe. I ate

30:54

scrambled eggs and did emails.

30:56

I

30:57

had work to do, but I could

30:58

focus and I didn't feel like I was doing

31:01

thirteen jobs badly. And

31:02

it just reminded me that sometimes

31:04

just slowed down a little bit and

31:07

I just really appreciated it. I got

31:09

on the plane afterwards and I was like, what a

31:11

bloody great day. Holly,

31:12

what's your worst? My worst.

31:15

well

31:15

meaning friends who indirectly

31:17

send you into a spiral of self

31:19

loading. Some of you might know, I've got a book out

31:21

at the moment. It's called the couple upstairs, but

31:23

out for nearly a month, Thank you to everybody

31:25

who's bought it. Lots of people tell me they

31:27

like it and I love that, but I'm not

31:29

a person who is blind to

31:32

criticism. However, I am a

31:34

person who does not go and read all my one star

31:36

reviews. You know, like, there are two types of authors.

31:38

There are some who love

31:40

that. They'll go and seek out

31:42

their one star reviews, their

31:44

terrible negative reviews, and there are those

31:46

like me who go no. The bad

31:49

criticism usually has a way of

31:51

finding you I'm gonna focus on the stuff because otherwise

31:53

I'll spend my whole life in the fetal

31:55

position crying. Because I know what's wrong with

31:57

my book already, and

31:59

I don't think

31:59

you're telling me too. Anyway,

32:02

wonderful well meaning friends of

32:04

mine who I hadn't seen for ages I saw on the

32:07

weekend. and my friend said, Rejji Bork

32:09

is so good. I went online to give it a

32:11

review and then they do

32:12

this noise. And

32:17

I'm like, what? And

32:17

she goes, you must have such

32:20

a thick skin. And I'm like,

32:21

whoops. And she's like,

32:24

I

32:24

don't know. Some people are just really mean, are they? And I'm

32:26

like, what? And

32:28

then you can't

32:30

not look. And then my other friend who

32:32

was with her was like, yeah, I know. Some

32:35

and I'm just

32:35

like, stop it.

32:36

Stop it. Like, don't say

32:39

that to people. because then the whole of the

32:41

rest of the day, all I could think

32:43

about was, oh my god,

32:44

everybody on the Internet hates my

32:47

book. And I Did you go and

32:49

read the reviews? I held

32:51

off doing that, but in my

32:53

mind, they're probably worse than they actually are.

32:55

And I just wanna tell people a little hint about

32:58

not directing people towards

33:00

terrible feedback about her. I

33:02

am had mom recently. I

33:04

think she went to leave a review on podcasts.

33:06

And she was like, oh, people are

33:08

just awful. Have you seen it? And I

33:10

was like, Mom. Mom.

33:12

I wouldn't get out of bed like it

33:15

paralyzes you too much criticism. But

33:17

anyway, generally speaking, there are lots of

33:19

lovely reviews and thank you to those people and please if

33:21

you liked it. Go and make one. Yes.

33:23

I'll leave my mirror out loud a good

33:25

review. We do see them and we do cry

33:27

sometimes. So Or if you wanna leave

33:29

me a negative review door, but make sure you do it

33:31

under a banner of five stars. Yes. That's the thing that makes laugh.

33:35

My best was

33:36

delegation. So some people might

33:38

know I moved house this week.

33:40

and I have been very busy. I have been in a

33:43

a Jesse Stevens esque busy period.

33:45

I was working on the weekend at

33:47

various bookings. things at

33:49

work are very busy. We're prepping for the

33:51

tour. Everything's going a bit nuts. And so I

33:53

didn't get to pack like I literally didn't. I

33:55

got back to Sydney on Wednesday night.

33:57

We were moving on Thursday morning.

33:59

I was like looking at all these boxes that

34:01

my wonderful partner, Brent, have thrown together

34:03

and thinking, god knows. What is

34:05

it? Okay. And, yes,

34:07

yesterday was a bit of a hellscape

34:09

of a day, but It

34:12

was amazing because I

34:14

just gave it to Brent to do. I

34:16

didn't know where anything was, but it was done. It

34:18

was one of those lowest standards and handover.

34:20

Was everything perfectly wrapped? No. Did

34:22

some things get broken in transit? Yes.

34:24

Did it take us fourteen hours to

34:26

try and find the right cables to

34:28

make television world last night? Yes.

34:32

But are we in our house? I'm

34:34

not dying

34:35

of exhaustion. Yes. So the

34:36

best was my excellent partner Brett for handling it all, but

34:39

also just sometimes just bloody

34:41

handed it over. and

34:43

letting it get done. Before we

34:46

go, Claire, that you have a recommendation

34:48

for us. Oh my gosh.

34:50

Guys, I'm so excited by this. I can barely

34:52

control myself. And I know

34:54

that I should not get excited about household

34:56

appliances because that says something

34:58

about me, but I am going to.

34:59

Because the other day, my

35:02

vacuum broke.

35:02

And I have

35:03

loved this vacuum for a very long

35:05

time, but my husband said that he'd

35:08

gotten quite obsessed with this other

35:10

vacuum and could he buy it? And I

35:11

was like, okay. I'm a

35:14

bit wary of changing

35:16

brands, but

35:18

alright. He came home with

35:20

a Samsung Jet Elite extra

35:23

bespoke stick vacuum.

35:26

in midnight blue. Okay. I'm blue. Now let me

35:29

tell you this. Not only does it

35:31

have two batteries because anyone who uses

35:33

a stick vacuum knows

35:36

that It runs out of battery relatively quickly. This one has two. So

35:38

if you want to vacuum your house for like an

35:40

hour, you can, which is brilliant.

35:43

Not only does it have a

35:45

mop head with a water

35:48

tank, so you can mop

35:50

after you

35:52

vacuumed, delightful. It

35:55

empties itself. No. I I don't

35:57

know how that happens, Claire. I don't

35:59

understand

35:59

where does it

36:02

empty at self. The robots are taking over. What else can it do?

36:04

So basically, you whack your

36:06

vacuum back onto its little stand and you

36:08

press a button. and a big

36:10

like noise happens like and

36:12

it sucks all the dirt out of

36:14

it. Someone has

36:15

asked me who then

36:17

empties the emptier But

36:19

that's a mystery I feel like will resolve itself some down the track. That's

36:21

not my problem. People get very

36:23

excited about good back cleaners

36:25

because there are lots of not very good ones, so people will

36:28

love this recommendation. Is it

36:30

expensive? Look, it is not

36:32

cheap. I will give you

36:34

that. It did cost

36:36

around twelve

36:37

hundred dollars.

36:38

Baby. So it is

36:40

not a cheap vacuum I'm in

36:42

a very privileged position in that my husband

36:44

can get very good deals from a certain

36:47

retailer. Yeah. So I have not

36:49

done the dream job. He's certainly

36:51

does. Electrical goods on

36:54

tap. Pretty much. I did get

36:56

it for less than that, but it does

36:58

retail for like between twelve and thirteen

37:00

hundred dollars. So She's x e. But gosh, she's pretty enough

37:02

to put in your lounge room and it looks like a bit of

37:04

art. Like it's

37:06

so nice. That is all we've got

37:08

time for on today's show. If you're

37:10

looking for something else to listen to on

37:12

yesterday's subscriber episode, because as you

37:14

know, these main episodes of Molyneux

37:16

Out loud are free, but

37:18

we do episodes just for subscribers on Tuesdays and Thursdays. And

37:20

yesterday's is called leave Ellen

37:24

DeGeneres alone. own. And Jesse alerted us to the fact

37:26

that Grayson Chats, who

37:28

was made famous by Ellen

37:30

when he was twelve years

37:33

has done quite a lot of

37:35

what we call it shit talking. A battle

37:37

and bashing. Yeah. Ellen

37:40

bashing recently. And we have a good chat about whether or not it's just

37:42

very fashionable to hate on Ellen right now or

37:44

if she had some charges to Absa.

37:46

If you wanna listen to that, there's a link

37:48

in our show notes.

37:50

Thank you for listening. This episode is produced

37:52

by Amiglesby with audio production

37:54

by Leah Porteous. Bye.

37:58

Big thanks to anyone listening who has become a

37:59

Mamma Mia subscriber. Subscribers

38:02

get access to every podcast

38:05

exclusive videos and all the

38:07

great articles on Mamma Mia.

38:10

Subscriptions cost as little as five

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seventy five a month. There's a link

38:14

in our show notes.