0:00

So many always seem to among

0:02

the A Podcast. Mama. Mia

0:05

acknowledges the traditional owners of land mortars

0:07

that this podcast is recorded on. Hello!

0:13

And. Welcome to Mama Mia out loud! What

0:15

women actually talking about on Friday the fifth

0:18

of April? I'm Holly Wainwright, I may have

0:20

Friedman and I'm Jessie Stevens. Welcome to Friday

0:22

Show! You might have noticed since we move

0:24

things around a bit and freshened up our

0:27

logo on everything. the on Friday we are

0:29

keeping things news free and having a big

0:31

chat about something with dying to talk about.

0:33

So on Today show. Why? Not

0:35

marry a rich old a man

0:38

instead of getting a job for

0:40

one woman's essay about doing exactly

0:42

that went completely viral this week

0:45

or so. recommendations including a book

0:47

we do not agree on and

0:49

best similar to the week including

0:52

stitches, interviews and a religious experience.

0:54

But first, in case you missed

0:56

it, they're awesome phrases that the

0:58

Internet has decided we should retire

1:01

from the internet immediately. stat, if

1:03

not sooner. I'm going to. Read

1:05

you them from tend to Ah now this

1:07

is just one person's opinion, but it's from

1:09

an Instagram page. Cool middle class fat. Are

1:13

you ready yet? At Number Ten, The struggle

1:15

is real. Yeah, I

1:17

don't say that anymore. Number Nine, All of

1:19

the feals don't We sometimes say some of

1:21

these like ironically, is that okay or is

1:23

it just if we say it had a

1:25

paypal, know that it's ironically. That's true. Number

1:28

eight for baby describing your pet is an

1:30

airbase, not known people. safer baby before they

1:32

have a baby. No offense to the forbade

1:34

is because I love my unfair baby like

1:36

a baby. But you can't call them that

1:38

once you've had a baby. yet. Beggars get

1:40

back to being a pet. Yeah, my person

1:42

at it's height, this is my land person.

1:45

Flu. Cloying title of it number six.

1:47

So that happened He put the under

1:50

a big event that you like any

1:52

I like really. Wedding I learned job

1:54

say it happened This is very instructive

1:56

can I use some of days including

1:59

number five. Frame. That we

2:01

need to retire immediately. This or do we.

2:03

Put that under you put it under like

2:05

something that you agree with so it's like

2:08

cease to be have definitely died He that

2:10

possibly this like idea of sunlight sorry I'm

2:12

so that I don't have to express that

2:14

opinion. Bad as yeah I know and I'll

2:16

do an arrow yeah and has he missed

2:19

it? Yeah similarly number four on just kinda

2:21

lazy see I liked that one. The hardline

2:23

think this is used as funny I do

2:25

that as is like I don't wanna say

2:28

the main thing about a pizza of that

2:30

an outlet Brad Pitts plastic surgery or something

2:32

but I'm just gonna. Leaves I. Know

2:35

so it's like still in the blanks.

2:38

Know he and I case number three

2:40

Ohio when I'm not crying your crime

2:42

It's just internet cliche rad. These things

2:45

are just second place had possessed so

2:47

as a huge asset right? Is it

2:49

a main and and they were all

2:51

funny at first. But. He's a

2:54

guy here. The first or I'm not crying,

2:56

You're crying is when like. Informed.

2:59

Yes, Like Tesla is

3:01

a puppy in their money. Hi Reality T

3:03

V A Reality T they moment where it's

3:06

like you're trying to say were having a

3:08

communal moment right now. Second, Top

3:10

phrase that needs to be retired. I say

3:12

pay is. Are. Dancing yeah it does.

3:14

Very little a podcast that one Millennial.

3:16

Ah probably we were going to but

3:18

I'm glad we didn't as it should

3:21

never name anything. Anything that's to of

3:23

the violence. Know short term short selfless.

3:25

This is just cancelling Millennials. All of

3:27

these things were started by Millennials and

3:29

decision said go and get on his

3:32

hands Behavior one hundred percent A Ready

3:34

for the top phrase yes that superiors

3:36

hide forever Immediately I did a thing.

3:38

I think that Sunday you bought a

3:40

house and then you die. Or we

3:42

did. A thing. And whole life, am

3:45

I reading a book or I set

3:47

my hair caught? It's basically it's a

3:49

way of bragging without bragging that it

3:51

used to be hashtag. Side. Last

3:53

hashtag grateful Elise Daves disappear I see these

3:55

things on the Internet I go round. I

3:57

made a thing paypal language. It feels like

3:59

they're the gate keepers of culture that a

4:01

lack know we used a not crying you're

4:04

crying too much and I you can't use

4:06

it and it's place I ever thinks in

4:08

place. I've never once said things that are

4:10

annoying on Monday the roads are things that

4:12

are just cringe because I've been. Or the

4:14

huge Isn't that the point? One of the

4:16

ones the I would add to this list.

4:19

Actors you rise as he is him but

4:21

would designate. Is

4:24

when people say i love doing life with you. Now.

4:26

I'm really sorry to have react ladder of

4:28

this defended who's written that on a picture

4:30

of that partner but that like a Brit

4:33

something you put with a romance is that

4:35

how diverse Ray devices without on years. But

4:38

it sounds like something you might hear in

4:40

some. And bows Yes yeah. Oh, but I'd

4:42

always on their pictures on Instagram. It's like

4:44

I love doing life with your Muslim, but

4:47

me as Rise because it's become wallpaper. It's

4:49

become of these. It's like a whole month

4:51

pods. But now they would be able to

4:53

put a whole lot card fast enough for

4:55

the police as to become cloying. You know

4:57

why they i reckon that all of a

4:59

there and attack at millennial that I'm feeling

5:01

but also when you have a photo you

5:04

want to post because it's pretty you then

5:06

have to send two to three hours coming

5:08

up with a caption that doesn't look grabby

5:10

and so what you do with your regurgitate

5:13

the last ten cliche the same and new

5:15

guy who turn me in my person and

5:17

our survey be did a thing. yes. Have

5:21

club. Was a Mac Suite Lem Bread proposes

5:23

out the up there guy like I did

5:25

a thing I love say live with yeah

5:28

these have. I'm not

5:30

crying. Your crime. And. I

5:32

call him it's hot when absolutely viral

5:34

deflate and we think desperate talk about

5:36

it so much so that we keep

5:38

having said i had to stop say.

5:41

This cited for the show has

5:43

it ceases land. So excited to

5:45

finally device the pace. Is. Cold

5:47

the case, the marrying an older man.

5:50

it argues that a woman plot

5:52

is all work and little rest

5:54

an age gap relationship can help

5:56

be or thought gray see so

5:58

say a christie married a man

6:00

10 years older. And that wasn't

6:02

an accident. She actively pursued an

6:04

older, wealthier, more established man. And

6:06

she explains why. When she was 20,

6:08

she was at Harvard and she realized that

6:10

while of course she could spend the next few decades

6:13

proving how exceptional she was, like everyone else in her

6:15

class, it would be more efficient

6:17

and in fact, cleverer to use the one

6:19

thing on her side that would soon fade.

6:21

And that was her youth. She

6:24

would go to Harvard Business School like the

6:26

actual location and purposely sit among 50 of

6:29

what she calls the world's most eligible bachelors.

6:32

She couldn't understand why her

6:34

female classmates weren't joining her.

6:37

Her youth as she understood

6:39

it. Because they had some

6:42

self respect. Sorry God, I

6:44

just want to understand this a little bit more. I

6:46

know this is very nerdy. But so she was studying

6:48

at Harvard. She was probably studying, I don't know, whatever,

6:50

Bachelor of Arts, whatever you do at Harvard, right? But

6:53

the Business School is quite specific

6:55

and there are people of all ages at the

6:57

Business School. How I understand it is I think

6:59

the Business School is a little bit more postgraduate.

7:01

Yeah right. And if you're postgraduate you're older. So

7:03

this is for the big dogs who maybe already

7:06

are running their own business. Okay. Whereas all the

7:08

other people are just silly undergrads at Harvard. Yuck.

7:10

Yeah. So she thought why not take advantage of

7:12

this while I can in this situation where

7:14

I've got proximity to these rich people. She

7:17

met her husband at 20 when she snuck into

7:19

a graduate school event and she fell in love.

7:22

Rather than get stuck in these

7:24

discussions about fair and unfair, equal

7:26

or unequal, she says she preferred

7:28

instead a thing called ease. Christy

7:31

rightly points out that every relationship is a

7:34

transaction but many read her deal, the trade

7:36

she made as a bad one. Her

7:39

marriage, where she was younger, more

7:41

beautiful, he was older, more wealthy,

7:43

was something those around her took

7:45

very personally. For example, Holly. Meanwhile,

7:48

she says young women were bringing up

7:50

young men, teaching them to floss and

7:52

do their washing before passing them over

7:54

to the person they'd marry. In part

7:56

of the essay, she talks about how

7:59

when we see like her 50 year old

8:01

walking down the street with a 25 year old, we

8:04

mentally make calculations like who got

8:06

the better deal. She

8:08

talks about she went very deliberately to this

8:10

party she snuck in. It was you know graduates

8:12

were there so they were all older than her.

8:14

She said I ate for free, I doused for

8:17

free and then one of the organizers asked me

8:19

to leave. I called an Uber, I got into

8:21

it and then I got straight out when I

8:23

saw this guy walk out of the revolving doors.

8:25

He was 30, turns out he was French. She

8:27

asked him for a cigarette. They went on a

8:29

date and she said a really interesting

8:31

thing. She said until then I d loved

8:34

men in the way that men

8:36

usually love women which is not

8:39

very well and kind of without

8:41

a plan. Because she was 20.

8:43

Yeah and she said but

8:46

not this time. This time I filled

8:48

his fridge with his favorite foods. I

8:50

spoke fondly of my family. I wrote

8:53

a thank you note to his mum

8:55

and basically she played the game. She

8:57

does say we did fall in love

8:59

so it s not like she had

9:01

to force herself. He was French and

9:04

she also said the way a

9:06

decade year age gap reads

9:09

is different. Like she said 20 to 30 is very

9:11

different to 30 and 40 and she said

9:13

that there was a lot of hostility from his

9:15

friends and she was once in the bathroom and

9:18

she heard his female friends sort of saying

9:20

what did he see in her. Yeah so

9:23

the transaction feels personal and also people would look at

9:25

it and be like this is a terrible deal. I know

9:28

it s like falling. And ultimately

9:30

she writes there is no brand of

9:32

feminism which has achieved female rest. But

9:34

what she earned herself by marrying an

9:36

older richer man was that she got

9:38

some time and it alleviated the rush

9:40

of the women field to climb the

9:43

corporate ladder while potentially planning family. Holly

9:45

she says she gets to live the life of

9:47

a writer. She has a lot of leisure time.

9:49

Her life sounds so aspirational. She gets to go

9:51

on holiday. Do you regret not marrying

9:54

an older richer man? I think Holly s jealous. That

9:56

s what it is. I think that s why this

9:58

feels like a personal attack. I

10:01

don't know where to start with this essay. I think you need to be

10:03

a therapist about your reaction to this essay. Because

10:06

I entirely respect her choice to make

10:08

her choices, but the whole... She chooses

10:11

her choice. The whole case

10:13

for marrying an older man. The

10:15

word that isn't in that sentence that needs to be in

10:17

there is a rich older man, very much needs to be

10:19

in there because you can marry older men. Some

10:22

of them. They didn't have any money. Exactly.

10:26

What she's basically bought herself is like

10:28

a five-star backpacking holiday, right? Her

10:31

20s have been, she says to herself, traveling around the

10:33

world, living in a beautiful apartment. There's a bit

10:35

in it where she talks about him showing her

10:37

where they were going to live. And

10:39

she said it was like she was introducing myself to me.

10:42

This is the wine we're going to drink. This

10:44

is where we live. This is like... He is

10:46

in control of everything they do.

10:48

It's not their apartment. It's his

10:50

apartment. She has to ask for the keys to get in

10:52

and out. It's his life and she's living in it. And

10:56

that might work really well for her. But

10:59

the way that she talks with the sort

11:01

of disdain about the people she knows who

11:03

are like messily building a life

11:05

together or on their own

11:08

or whatever is really

11:11

judgmental. Because it assumes that everybody wants what

11:13

she's got. Yes. Which is like

11:15

she doesn't want to have a career. I mean, she wants

11:17

to be a writer and she's a beautiful writer. The essay

11:19

is gorgeous as one of the reasons it's gone viral, I'm

11:21

sure. But it's like I didn't

11:24

want to have to do the crappy jobs that most people

11:26

have to do while they work their way to a career

11:28

that they actually love. I didn't want to have to

11:30

do any of that stuff. And that's fine

11:32

for her. But it kind of makes this

11:34

assumption that we could

11:36

all buy ourselves some ease if we just

11:38

agreed to hunt down a dude who was

11:40

going to pay for everything, which I just

11:42

find regressive and dangerous. I

11:45

was trying to summon feelings when I read this because I

11:47

was like, this is the piece that's gone viral and everyone's

11:49

talking about it. And people

11:51

seem to have really strong feelings about it. And

11:54

I read it and I could not

11:56

summon a strong feeling. And I don't

11:58

know why am I broken. I

12:00

feel like. Just. What she

12:02

says is kind of obvious and I

12:04

don't. Feel. Defensive

12:07

about it. I don't feel. Incredulous,

12:10

Or insulted. it just seems. Really?

12:13

Of he has like fantasy. I fail to

12:15

you. very old fashioned. This is what every

12:17

movies ever been about. Like old a rich

12:20

man, young beautiful woman. So you get to

12:22

live this life for a while then you'll

12:24

probably pass to overthrow a new model. And

12:26

she does say that the only time that

12:28

see debts worry this when she realizes that

12:31

if he betrayed her and she would have

12:33

to take a stand she would lose everything.

12:35

Bright light, she loses the beautiful house and

12:37

the holidays in the all those things she

12:40

said she realized that too much work had

12:42

left. My husband by said he jaded

12:44

and uninspired. He burnt out, but I

12:46

could read something I dance at restaurants

12:48

when they play the song I liked.

12:50

I turned grocery shopping into an adventure.

12:52

Pleased by what I provided, some pills

12:54

I got on our streets. He needed

12:56

someone smart enough to sustain his interest

12:58

that flexible enough in her habits to

13:01

build them around his hours. I could.

13:03

I do, I make most of free.

13:05

I materialize beside him when he calls

13:07

me. See the poppy seeds. A cute

13:09

puppy puppy will grow into a dog

13:11

and then you want another. Cute puppy

13:13

not building anything of her own. With

13:15

space. The meaning in this life and

13:17

this is the thing that I read

13:19

this and I went. I know women.

13:22

I. Know if I ask them straight out,

13:24

did you marry that person for money they

13:26

would say yes and I have had a

13:28

real issue with that and dealt with my

13:30

own. Judgment. Because I've gone. It's

13:32

a transaction. I superficially would

13:35

go. I know why Married you? You

13:37

were able to give him more children.

13:39

Isn't every relationship some kind of transaction?

13:41

A lot of for some reason why

13:43

I thought about this. The reason why

13:45

this transaction riled me is to fall

13:48

the is she's offering advice. And

13:50

this advice is dangerous. It's regressive and

13:52

it is made women miserable for a

13:54

lot. Exile: Why is it dangerous? Because

13:56

it is telling women you're the one

13:58

who I say telling women the Man

14:00

in a Financial Giants none of the

14:03

financial plan and everything plan. And the

14:05

second reason why this is not a

14:07

good long term solution is that the

14:09

issue with finding a man who loves

14:11

the compliant Submissive twenty something year old

14:13

yes is when you become a thirty

14:15

something year old, he probably still once

14:17

at Compliance Submissive twenty something year old.

14:19

And then what are you do when

14:21

I'll a Swiss Lire She sang of

14:23

Zealand Hall. See.

14:39

The. Age gap brought. This is what's interesting

14:41

about this. the case my an older man.

14:43

the age thing is almost irrelevant accepted as

14:45

much in the in this is she deliberately

14:47

wanted some I'm much more well established, said

14:50

they could look after her, writes about the

14:52

Aids peace but as we said, not all

14:54

older men are rich and the way to

14:56

go viral video a financial thing yeah and

14:58

how well do you. See. See

15:00

that as this very obvious thing and

15:02

I don't think she realizes. That.

15:04

That dynamic does not exist in

15:06

in every partnership and in fact

15:09

a lot of people and marrying

15:11

for reasons that. Are. Not financial

15:13

or not necessarily to do with power.

15:15

So she's saying basically that within the

15:17

institution of marriage, women's value is decreasing.

15:19

At the same time men's value is

15:21

increasing. Yeah, that happens with eight. She

15:23

describes it as like a funnel like

15:25

women are on this funnel where things

15:27

are getting slimmer and slimmer. and slimmer

15:29

intent of opportunities and men's the getting

15:31

broader and brought on brought us. But

15:33

you agree with that, You have to

15:35

completely discount all of the work that

15:38

we've been doing in the last fifty

15:40

years to make women's value a lot

15:42

more going. On the value of being

15:44

a human being with her thoughts and

15:46

ideas and you can't live your whole

15:48

ideally six. When I was in she

15:50

said i commend you for the ass.

15:52

It's not a criticism, that's what I

15:54

found interesting. apart from she disliked the

15:56

holidays with sorry I would like all

15:59

it So the. The reality, a lot

16:01

of friction and the lack of having

16:03

to strives. To me,

16:05

it was also at bat.

16:07

the attraction. To. Someone

16:09

who was already formed at that

16:11

would interest. It meant that the

16:13

mental lay boss of having to

16:16

work out who she was what

16:18

she likes: having to kiss a

16:20

lot of frogs, not just in

16:22

romantic relationships but like having their

16:24

own jobs. Living in the wrong

16:26

places like that struggle. he was

16:28

just further down the road. And

16:31

she wanted to just fast track of their

16:33

cattle hood. She wanted to skip the Messy

16:35

Potter. But the thing is and again this

16:37

is why it might be perfect choice for

16:39

her. But the sun is in the sigrid

16:42

it out like having a life is handed

16:44

to on a plate like this is literally

16:46

what he did. Suspicious where we live. This

16:48

is why would telling this lovely for her.

16:50

But like I can honestly say with the

16:53

Aids in hindsight and even all the difficult

16:55

times a million times and that's that. that's

16:57

where the sun is like. I don't know.

16:59

I had an appeal to. Me except for

17:01

five minutes. On the surface, it seems that

17:04

she's happy and she's offering advice if there

17:06

are a few. Very, very telling lines about.

17:09

There's only so many times he can

17:11

say thank you to someone when than

17:13

that there was some line about only thing

17:15

told that you're ungrateful or that you're

17:17

not saying thanks Oh and another the

17:19

put supportive enough is code for your indebted

17:21

to me because also isn't as he's

17:23

writing a novel unsurprisingly she probably and

17:25

a get big money for after the

17:27

spiral essay is her work does become demanding

17:30

as she cannot be constantly available to

17:32

literally materialized beside him when he calls

17:34

for me as he says he not gonna

17:36

like that that's not the way it

17:38

were no I. Once had a

17:40

conversation on sitting next to

17:42

this guy at a dinner

17:44

and he was very wealthy

17:47

and he likes the idea

17:49

of a partner who was

17:51

kind of like may like,

17:53

ambitious and feisty and bowl

17:56

of that stuff. But when

17:58

we spoke more and. Proposition

18:00

in May or anything. but when we

18:02

were talking about what he needed from

18:05

his partner it was exactly what you

18:07

said it was a caboodle essentially with

18:09

someone a skeleton that by were just

18:12

really malleable. Around his life

18:14

because when he needed to guy the season,

18:16

play polo, or when he needed some twenty

18:18

one of the yeah suitable he wanted someone

18:20

who could just drop everything and bay with

18:22

human. But then he was also frustrated by

18:24

that because he said I would come home

18:26

and I'll say see you know the pretty.

18:28

Model. Ah, I'm

18:30

so stressed at work on she would guy

18:33

fades as quick read it would Just moved

18:35

to the south of France and to. Get.

18:37

Hot. Yeah, because her life

18:39

could be that so she wasn't his intellectual

18:42

a cool but his intellectual equal was nocturnal.

18:44

Just a classroom is less essential for an

18:46

interesting is why this essay went viral right?

18:48

and why. And as I've said, it's a

18:50

beautifully written personally. I say that to me

18:52

it feels part of this whole thing that

18:55

I'm saying everywhere I look at the minute

18:57

about tried wives that have girlfriends soft skills.

18:59

I'm not saying that there is it credence

19:01

and credibility to what she's saying about when

19:03

I think of say, my same sex relationships

19:06

what I tend to pits as a woman

19:08

who's doing too much for two little yes

19:10

that's really interesting and her point about know

19:12

view of feminism having a's and it's you

19:14

not wrong. I think that all of this

19:17

sort of yearning for this kind of easy

19:19

soft life where someone looks after you is

19:21

a very understandable reaction to what we're seeing

19:23

all around us. It's just reality for women

19:25

is that mostly that doing everything all the

19:27

time as the opposite of either they've they've

19:30

got the job but they're also taking care

19:32

of this boy child you know who that

19:34

is supposed to be their partner but really

19:36

isn't doing his up that looking after himself.

19:39

And looking after hub I'm looking after

19:41

kids and looking after their extended family

19:43

and all of those things is very

19:45

understandable that there's like this attractive pulled.

19:48

Whether it's through lovely hazy pictures on

19:50

Instagram or beautiful essays like this about

19:52

like my life is, it's time for

19:54

me. I get to wander around and

19:57

think thoughts and would allow is under

19:59

the desk. Sounds great. But

20:01

how much agency do you have? Well, agency

20:03

is the most important thing for everybody. No,

20:05

it's not. And I think that we have

20:08

to be careful of not projecting our values

20:10

onto other people. But you know when these relationships come

20:12

unstuck is when kids come along. Because

20:24

she's able to supplicate her desires, her

20:27

wants, her needs to him and make

20:29

him the centre of the universe. When

20:31

a child comes along, suddenly he's not the

20:34

centre of the universe. He goes down on

20:36

the leaderboard to number two. Or at least

20:38

he should when there's a baby in the

20:40

house, a newborn baby. And

20:42

that tends to really mess with the dynamic.

20:45

Or do they have the perfect dynamic for

20:47

a baby to come along? And in fact, that's

20:49

why this went viral. Because the dynamic, it's

20:52

obvious. The baby comes along, it's very obvious who's going to

20:54

look after the baby. They have

20:56

room in that relationship for

20:58

a baby. Whereas it's almost like what she's

21:00

saying. I don't know what gives her babying

21:02

of him. Well, it

21:04

is clear that he's the one with the career who gets to

21:06

go and pursue this. Children are about to get a book deal.

21:08

Yeah, I know, but she's playing that down very much because she

21:10

likes her holidays. But

21:13

I thought that it was almost saying

21:15

this approach to life where

21:17

we just accept gender dynamics as they

21:19

are. We accept the way that society

21:21

values women and we play by those

21:23

rules. It means that I can

21:26

take my time and then before motherhood I've had

21:28

the holidays, I've had the rest and I'm ready to look

21:30

after a baby. If you compare

21:32

that to the relationship like, the Glucrinise relationship, where

21:34

we're both on this treadmill to work, work, work,

21:37

work, work, work, work. And then

21:39

the baby comes. It's like... Divorce. What

21:42

time is it? You've got two people

21:44

who are heavily invested in their careers looking at each

21:46

other going, wait, what was the plan? So

21:49

I think that's almost what this is

21:51

a reflection of as well. Yeah, absistencyment.

21:54

Feminism has set up, isn't working

21:56

either. And the fact that this is a reaction

21:58

to That... Comey.

22:00

That's what's. But. Itself feminism that isn't

22:02

working right? I agree. I know it. I

22:05

was just saying. I could see. I think

22:07

it's a reaction to Guy. Hold on. I'm

22:09

still doing everything by. I thought the month

22:11

gonna be a fifty fifty situation and it's

22:13

not self feminisms fault. I love their work

22:15

as a problem in that sixty six minutes.

22:18

The other part of it isn't doing everything.

22:20

There's a line in at where she says.

22:22

When we decided we wanted to be equal

22:24

to men, we got on men's time of

22:26

course. The problem with that is that. If.

22:29

You want to have babies he turned around

22:31

and then you've got them. Into light of

22:33

that, it at thirty, you never get sort

22:36

of your room of one's own. that kind

22:38

of women that feminists thought we might pop

22:40

a century guy. I can say how they

22:42

something aspiration about that. but then there was

22:45

a really good critique which basically said this

22:47

is the Republican plan. Some others like me

22:49

is that conservative plan in the U S

22:52

and this is my Cia exactly This is

22:54

my theory about why were saying this tried

22:56

was soft go retreating to the home thing

22:58

is. That one is lacking countercultural reaction

23:00

to the place them dismiss. Got to

23:03

said the other is a post Republican

23:05

conservative agenda because women on having a

23:07

baby Linda Pm if progressive like in

23:09

western countries were not replacing the population

23:11

enough. and you're saying this very unsettled

23:13

messaging which is like women go back

23:15

home and have a baby play one

23:17

hundred percent And it's also what comes

23:19

from governments whenever they want women to

23:21

get out of the workforce. Mcmoran for

23:23

the guys, Like, let's be honest, men

23:25

are being pushed out of the workforce

23:27

by smart women. And lot in

23:30

another generation, women's value in society won't be

23:32

how young they lock. it just won't be

23:34

so sleazy. Want to keep that going and

23:36

you want their independence and you won't be

23:39

choices healthy sucks into this bullshit unless of

23:41

course you can find a really lovely but

23:43

you, They're. Going to

23:45

be fair, I

23:57

went to see some was I have no time for

23:59

really really long. The and siphon book

24:01

tickets to see ah the same

24:03

of many one So it's the

24:05

one woman sorry about Ruth Bader

24:07

Ginsburg. The second as a female

24:10

supreme court judge in the United

24:12

States to became will she became

24:14

a notorious Ah Bj as years

24:16

ago she became a sort of

24:18

a pop culture icon and other

24:20

words of my mother failing at

24:23

all to yourself. Hold

24:25

her. Hand.

24:28

At I'm not clear the last congress.

24:31

Never lose pile. Of

24:35

have a voice of other. The.

24:38

Only way to make your

24:40

a whole to this day

24:42

in the old. Not

24:44

alone anymore. Or

24:47

bull alone global. Com

24:50

O and Polls. Wells.

24:52

Hope. It was the

24:54

nominal. It's the second one person play

24:56

I've been to. I also went to

24:59

a similar one of actually Gilad that

25:01

just and clock within and just for

25:03

a second Can we talk about the

25:06

idea of a one them and play

25:08

on states the whole time? Yes so

25:10

had to meet show her you might

25:12

noise from says in love and love

25:15

me She was so good she was

25:17

sugar waving a gun or love interest

25:19

in wife She's a phenomenal see. Played

25:22

Ruth Bader Ginsburg from age. Thirteen. See

25:24

in Hades when she died she just

25:26

had like always say was just this

25:28

one woman she has every line apply,

25:30

goes for an hour and forty minutes

25:32

know interval. And if you use

25:34

origin A I went sour it when I

25:36

was heavily pregnant. We got a special say

25:39

it's hidden Kitsap tickets but you don't get

25:41

a say a definite animals and saving said

25:43

oh I saw that standing room I was

25:46

in san Intimate what standing or it's must

25:48

have an official think she says it was

25:50

twenty box. clarence

25:52

indulgently was pregnant and had just had a

25:54

broken leg and is so different from i

25:56

would look i'm of a lie back heading

25:58

but i gotta love I was looking at

26:01

her, even she got a seat on stage

26:03

for parts, but brilliant. It was so good.

26:05

I learnt so much. I learnt so much

26:07

too. So I've always loved Ruth

26:09

Bader Ginsburg, but I've had a very conflicted relationship

26:11

with her for the last few years. I've been

26:13

very cross with her because, similar

26:15

to my feelings about Joe Biden, the

26:17

way the Supreme Court work is that

26:19

you are appointed by the president at

26:22

the time. So there are nine members

26:24

of the Supreme Court. It's an appointment

26:26

for life. And I just think lifelong

26:28

appointments are terrible, but that's another

26:30

story. So it's an appointment for life. So

26:33

the only way to get off is to die or

26:35

to stand down. And most people just stay on there

26:37

for life. So at times the

26:39

makeup of the Supreme Court is

26:41

very old. So it's

26:43

always in balance because there's nine. If

26:45

you're a left-leaning person, a

26:47

progressive, socially progressive person, you want there to

26:50

be more Democrat appointments. And

26:52

obviously if you're more conservative, you want

26:54

there to be more conservative appointments. Now,

26:56

the Supreme Court decides the biggest cases

26:58

in America that creates law and massive

27:01

social impact, social change.

27:03

So it was the Supreme Court

27:05

that enshrined Roe versus Wade into

27:08

law, which made abortion legal. It

27:10

was then the Supreme Court who

27:13

overturned that legislation. And

27:15

that's why abortion is now illegal. So

27:18

what was quite famously known is that Ruth Bader

27:20

Ginsburg, who was iconic, she had three strikes against

27:22

her when she went to try and

27:24

get a job as a lawyer after graduating the

27:26

top of her class, firstly at Harvard and then

27:28

at Columbia Law School. She was

27:31

in the late 50s. She was Jewish.

27:33

She was a woman and she was a

27:35

mother. She had two little kids at that

27:37

time. She went on to

27:40

fight for the rights of women and argue

27:42

cases in front of the Supreme Court before

27:44

she was appointed by Bill Clinton in the

27:46

90s. But what

27:48

happened is that she then got cancer quite

27:51

well known. She beat cancer, but she was

27:53

getting really old. And Obama knew that it

27:56

was heading towards 2016. He

27:58

knew that he had a short window. to

28:00

appoint a new Supreme

28:02

Court judge. Hers was the

28:04

most obvious place because she was old and it was

28:06

clear she was already in her 80s. She'd already had

28:09

cancer once. I think her cancer had come back a

28:11

couple of times. He had

28:13

a lunch with her and basically said

28:15

without saying, hey, would you think of

28:17

resigning? She said no. To ensure that

28:19

your position is held by a Democrat.

28:21

Correct. She said no. She said,

28:23

I've still got a lot to do. And

28:26

so she tried to hold on. She

28:29

thought, oh, Hillary Clinton will be the next president.

28:32

Donald Trump was elected. She's like, oh

28:34

no. If I die, she's

28:36

like, I literally have to hold on for four

28:38

more years. Her husband died of cancer. She

28:41

got pancreatic cancer. Cancer came back. She fought for it.

28:43

It's all in the play. Yes. And

28:45

then just before the election,

28:48

when Joe Biden won 46 days,

28:51

she died. And

28:54

she was replaced by Amy Coney

28:56

Barrett, who was part of the

28:58

conservative movement that overturned her way. So I'm

29:00

really cranky with her in the same way

29:02

I'm cranky with Joe Biden for not leaving

29:05

when you should leave the party so that

29:07

you can ensure your legacy by for

29:10

the greater good. My question is, does the

29:12

play have that altered any of your

29:14

feelings about that? Did you understand

29:16

her position better after watching it? No,

29:19

it didn't. But I was

29:21

reminded of how extraordinary she

29:23

was, what an extraordinary woman

29:25

she was. But her hubris

29:27

at the end undid

29:30

a lot of her legacy. And the

29:32

play because, yeah, I watched it a little

29:34

while ago. Is that what you thought, Jessie?

29:36

Yes, but I learned a lot. There was

29:38

a lot I didn't know about her and

29:40

her life and her family. And it was

29:42

funny and it was smart. And so, so

29:44

well written. It's by Susie Miller, who wrote

29:46

Primer Facey, the book that's written by an

29:48

Australian, an extraordinary Australian playwright. So

29:50

it's in Sydney at the moment, but then

29:53

it's going to Melbourne, Brisbane and Canberra this

29:55

year. So it's going to have quite the

29:57

tour. It's a Sydney theatre company production. I

30:00

just loved it. I have

30:02

a recommendation, which is a documentary

30:04

on Netflix called Longshot that Luca

30:06

made me watch. It's from a

30:08

little while ago, but just watched it the other day. It

30:11

was like any other day, but as soon as I

30:13

opened the door, I was

30:15

completely surrounded, like, SWAT style. My daughter,

30:17

she looks up and says, Dad. Oh.

30:21

Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh

30:23

my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh

30:26

my God. Oh my God. Oh my God.

30:29

I'm gonna get you out of here. I

30:32

asked him, do you remember where you were? Oh,

30:36

that was odd of me. I gotta find the whole

30:38

grill of one of the fans. I

30:41

need to place my client at Dodger

30:43

Stadium on that night. It

30:45

is a true crime documentary, but it's only like

30:47

45 minutes long. Right? So quick,

30:50

it's like an episode, but it's very

30:52

interesting. So a guy named Juan Catalán,

30:54

his name is, was arrested for

30:56

murder for this woman who

30:58

was just shot dead on her

31:01

street, suburban street in LA. And

31:03

they arrest him and they say, you were

31:06

seen. Someone's drawn a thing. Oh. Yep.

31:09

Well, you were seen. There's a witness who says they saw you there. Oh, okay.

31:12

Yep. And he goes, I wasn't there. I

31:14

was at the Dodger's game. And because he had like

31:16

a yearly pass, they couldn't tell if he was actually

31:19

there or not. So then they

31:21

try and look at CCTV, blah, blah, blah.

31:23

Turns out that on that day, Larry David

31:25

was filming Curb Your Enthusiasm. Oh. And

31:28

so they went through HBO to

31:31

see if there was any footage of this

31:33

man in the crowd and you would not

31:35

believe the footage that they found of him

31:37

at the exact time that he was meant

31:39

to have. It is fascinating. It's

31:41

just the weirdest, like, and then they interview

31:44

Larry David, who's just like loving. That's

31:46

like a Larry David episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm.

31:48

So Larry David is, of course, a man who

31:50

wrote Seinfeld and is a comedian who does Curb Your

31:52

Enthusiasm. You like Curb, if you watch

31:55

Curb Your Enthusiasm. I never watch it. But, you know,

31:57

everyone I know tells me I have to watch it.

31:59

And I was. wondering if it might fill

32:01

the shit's creek whole left in my life.

32:04

Cause Brent and I need like a short

32:06

comedy, like that you can start lots of

32:08

seasons. I've watched Friday night. Cause you're almost

32:10

every episode of Cabo Your Enthusiasm. Luca as

32:13

a Jewish man. Should I start? This

32:15

is what I'll say. Very unpopular opinion. I might get cancelled

32:17

first. Larry David does not like

32:19

women. I have watched it

32:21

and I have never seen a woman

32:24

portrayed in anything like a positive light.

32:26

They're all annoying and shrill and they

32:28

get even way too. Oh

32:30

no, there's lots of really annoying in his world. No,

32:32

no, no. There's like, Vince Vaughn is in it and

32:35

like, there's a whole lot of really famous people, but

32:37

even in the most recent one, the Anna

32:39

Miller's, like the amount of celebrity appearances

32:41

is ridiculous, but every time there's a

32:43

woman stays them and then, yeah,

32:46

I dunno. I

32:48

dunno if it's just how I read it, but I keep watching it

32:50

and I look at Luca and go, this man

32:52

does not have a lot of time for

32:54

women. Interesting. Holly, what have you got?

32:56

So I've just finished two books this weekend. And one

32:58

of them was your recommendation, the Lisa Jewel. None of

33:01

this is true. And I posted and said, how's Jesse's

33:03

recommendation? It's great. And all that loud is like, yes,

33:05

100%. Love, love, love, love, loved it. But

33:07

I also have been listening to another book while I've

33:09

been driving, because I'm always driving. I've

33:12

been listening to Dolly Alderton's Good Material. Now

33:14

that's the novel of hers that came out

33:16

last year. The audio book is narrated. I

33:18

can't remember the actor's name who plays the

33:20

guy. He's got a Brummie accent, which is a

33:22

Birmingham accent, which is a bit Lord of the East. Vanessa

33:25

Kirby plays the female voice. Now I

33:27

really liked it. I really liked it.

33:29

I loved Dolly's first novel, Ghosts. I

33:32

thought it was great. Yeah. I

33:34

really liked this too. And then I said out loud

33:36

to you a lot and on my socials that I

33:38

loved it. And everybody was like, I didn't really love

33:40

it. And I was like, I really

33:42

did. And that reasons why I did. So if you

33:45

might agree, most of the

33:47

book is from a male protagonist perspective. And I

33:49

struggle with that. It's the story of a breakup.

33:51

So ordinary dude, he's a striving

33:53

comedian, but he's pretty ordinary dude. Breaks

33:55

up with ordinary woman in London in

33:58

2019. And

34:00

the book follows the next six months

34:02

really. And he is really

34:05

blindsided by this breakup. And it sort

34:07

of follows him wallowing,

34:09

I think is the term we might use.

34:12

Completely devastated. He's a wise guy. He

34:14

wanted to settle down. He likes being

34:16

in long-term relationships. He's completely baffled about

34:18

why Jen didn't want the same thing.

34:21

I thought it was really insightful and funny. And

34:23

then the end, without wanting to give away the

34:25

end. I'm not up to the end yet. I'm

34:27

also listening though. At the end you get to

34:30

hear, not the whole story again, because that's what I kept

34:32

thinking. One of the things about listening to books is you

34:34

don't know how far along you are necessarily. I mean you

34:36

could look, but... And I

34:38

was like, oh my gosh, if we're going to hear her

34:40

story from the beginning of this, I might

34:43

die. That's not what happens. But you do

34:45

hear from her and you understand her perspective

34:47

and it turns the whole book... Like Flashman

34:49

is in Trouble? Kind of, yeah. It turns

34:52

the whole book on its head because you're

34:54

like, oh... So the payoff's

34:56

worth it. For me, the payoff was

34:58

100% worth it. I thought

35:00

it was too. The payoff was worth it, but

35:02

I didn't enjoy it like I enjoyed Ghost and

35:05

I found I couldn't

35:07

quite work out where the plot was going.

35:09

It was very slow, I thought. It is

35:11

slow. It's definitely slow. And maybe part of

35:13

why I liked it is it's a very

35:15

particular kind of English London

35:17

story. I noticed... It's so funny

35:19

the cultural differences you notice. No one in

35:21

London drives a car. No one gets in a car at

35:23

any point during this entire book. Everyone's just on the train

35:25

and the tube and the bus. And he

35:27

loves football and he's not in touch with his feelings.

35:29

And really it's kind of the point is that men

35:32

have nowhere to go when their world falls apart

35:35

and women are good at gathering around each other.

35:37

But also when you do meet Jen, she's

35:40

a surprising kind of woman in

35:42

a book. Like one criticism I've

35:44

heard of the book is that

35:47

there's not a whole lot of plot. Like

35:49

it's not very plotty. Yeah, no, it's not very plotty.

35:52

As a writer, you often try and put too much plot in

35:54

things because you're like, I've got to have a cliffhanger at the

35:56

end of every chapter and I've got to... When

35:59

life isn't like that. Life isn't like that

36:01

at all. And I think that some of life in

36:03

the hands of the right writer, though, a lot of

36:05

my favorite books would not have much plot. I think

36:07

you can like both. Like I like them both in

36:09

the same way that sometimes I like hot chips and

36:11

sometimes I like a Degas station. Like

36:13

they're both good. They're just different. Paul, I have

36:15

a question. Can you

36:17

tell me something? How do you

36:20

decide what books to do as audiobooks

36:22

and what books to read? So

36:25

I used to not do fiction

36:27

as audiobooks. I used to only do nonfiction.

36:30

And I love audiobooks for memoir. Love

36:32

it. Right. Like so

36:34

great. Because I just copy you. Whatever audiobooks

36:36

you listen to, I listen to as well. Like

36:38

Brittany, you told me to listen to audiobooks.

36:40

Yeah, that was great. I never would think

36:42

of listening to something. And Matthew Perry and Harry,

36:45

I stand by those as the best audiobooks

36:47

I've ever listened to. So

36:49

I'm listening for material because you are. I've changed that I do listen

36:51

to some fiction now because I listen to Demon Copperhead. It

36:54

was so great. That would have been great. How many

36:56

else was that? Oh, many, many, many. But I do

36:58

it when I'm driving. You don't notice, you know what

37:00

I mean? You've got long car. You've

37:02

got long a lot of time. So it

37:05

has to be a really well done. When

37:07

you listen to audiobooks, just like anything, there's

37:09

like cheap versions and there's like good quality

37:11

versions. So I look at who's reading it.

37:13

I look at how involved the author. You

37:16

can tell because sometimes I can't

37:19

listen to my own books and audiobooks. No way. Because

37:21

the voice, even not, I'm not saying they're not good. They're great. They're

37:24

magnificent. No, no, that is just to be clear.

37:26

As the writer, the voice never

37:29

sounds like the voice in my head. You

37:31

get to have input into who it is. A little

37:33

bit. Yeah, it's in you. They said it's the actor.

37:35

They said it didn't you do yours? Not my recent

37:37

fiction. Why? I would have wanted to do

37:39

it. Because I'm not someone who has skills. Because it's the film.

37:41

You need an actor to do fiction. But then you say, I

37:44

said, let's turn down the voices because

37:46

I can't deal with. And then she said, hello.

37:48

Hello. I really annoyed you. You

37:50

know who I interviewed this week for No Filter

37:52

is Marion Keyes. She

37:54

because I just love her voice.

37:57

I had hoped that Dolly narrated.

38:00

her book and I also hope that

38:02

Caroline O'Donoghue had narrated the Rachel incident

38:04

because I love their accents. Yeah. But

38:06

it doesn't work for fiction. No, I get

38:08

it. Like if it was a memoir then

38:11

yes, right? Well interestingly, Marian Keyes narrated Grown

38:13

Ups, which is an option to be made

38:15

into Netflix. I love that

38:17

book. I don't know if she's narrated her new

38:19

one, but that was 17 hours I think. Oh,

38:22

I bet. Because Good Material, the Dolly Alden

38:24

book is at 9 hours. She said it

38:26

went on for 17 hours with quite the

38:29

marathon, but she said she really enjoyed it. Yeah.

38:32

One unlimited out loud access,

38:34

we drop episodes every Tuesday

38:36

and Thursday exclusively for Mama

38:38

Mia subscribers. Follow the

38:40

link in the show notes to get us in

38:43

your ears five days a week and a

38:45

huge thank you to all our current subscribers. It's

38:57

half the best most of the week if we haven't talked

38:59

too much already. We're looking back on the things that were

39:02

our best and worst. They can be big. They

39:04

can be little. Who wants to go first Mia? My

39:07

worst is that Daylight Savings is

39:09

about to finish in New South

39:11

Wales and Victoria this weekend. I

39:14

think Victoria in the same New South Wales. Well,

39:16

I'm just going to have a double whinge. I don't like

39:18

how dark it is in the mornings and that will change.

39:20

So that's probably going to be the bright thing and you

39:22

get an extra hour's sleep, which is great

39:24

unless you've got really little children who wake up early

39:26

anyway. So now instead of waking up at five, they're

39:28

going to wake up at four. I

39:31

like the longer days. I do. I get a

39:33

bit sad thinking, oh, we're going into the winter

39:35

tunnel. Anyway, at least we'll

39:37

be on par with Queensland because that's really annoying

39:39

when it's different to Queensland. If you've got

39:41

friends that live there. My best of the

39:43

week is that I am back in No

39:46

Filter with a vengeance and I'd forgotten what

39:49

I love about doing that show. I'm really

39:51

reinvigorated and re-experiencing it is when you go

39:53

in thinking you know what an interview is

39:56

going to be or what a person is

39:58

going to be and being really. surprised.

40:02

The episode that is dropping on Monday

40:04

is an interview I did a few

40:06

days ago with Tammy Hembrow who is

40:08

the influencer who she's like an Australian

40:10

Kardashian. She's kind of built this business

40:13

empire. She's released this book and that's

40:15

why she's available for interviews. I've actually wanted to interview

40:17

her for a while and then I was like oh

40:19

I don't know and then I just

40:22

loved the interview so much because

40:24

it just the issues around it not even the

40:26

interview itself so much but she's

40:28

not what I expected and then I've written

40:30

a cover story for Mama Mia which is

40:32

going to drop next week. I've forgotten, I

40:34

love reading those cover stories about you

40:37

know celebrities and interviewees. I was

40:39

like oh I could write it

40:41

and I did write it and

40:43

it's just so varied you know

40:45

I've interviewed Diane Foley the week

40:47

before this week whose son was

40:49

executed by Isis then Tammy Hembrow

40:51

then Marron Keyes. I've got another interview coming

40:54

up with them an amazing

40:56

young man who became

40:58

paraplegic six months ago when he had a

41:00

back accident and interviewed him and his parents

41:02

so I just love the freedom to just

41:05

go I'm really interested in this person or

41:07

this thing or this book or this topic.

41:09

Because your thing has been I'm not interested in

41:12

just interviewing a famous person because they're doing the

41:14

rounds. No. I keep trying to make her

41:16

do that. I know. You won't do it. I

41:18

can't. I get it. I understand it. I

41:20

just have to follow my curiosity which is

41:22

really weird when people go oh so what is

41:25

no filter it's like it's whatever I'm interested

41:27

in and occasionally I get it really wrong and

41:29

it's just me that's interested in it but

41:31

usually I'm a basic bit so if

41:33

I'm interested in something probably other people

41:35

will be as well. Anyway Tammy Hembrow

41:38

drops on Mama. Jessie. My

41:40

worst is I have

41:43

a shameful confession that I finally made out loud to

41:45

a friend yesterday I don't think I've said it on

41:47

the show yet. She said to

41:49

me since you've had your baby you've not

41:51

mentioned your dog and

41:54

I was like I have something terrible to

41:56

tell you and that's that my relationship with my

41:58

dog has changed. Oh yeah. I

42:00

love Chillie, but your fur

42:03

baby, my fur baby, it has

42:05

just changed. And I had a different friend who

42:07

said to me before I had Luna, she was

42:09

like, don't worry, it will change, but it

42:11

will come back. Not for you. It's

42:14

just hopefully Chillie will still be alive. Chillie was my

42:16

baby and now and I do love her. I really,

42:18

really love her. But I just feel such profound guilt

42:20

because Chillie is a rescue. So

42:22

she's a little bit unpredictable. And so if I've

42:24

got Luna around crawling and I've got like, I

42:27

just think I'm really on edge and I'm feeling

42:29

so protective of Luna that I am not the

42:31

mother that Chillie deserves. Oh, darling, you know

42:33

what would be... So do you keep Chillie

42:35

outside now or what's the deal? No, she's

42:37

inside. But when I walk in the door,

42:39

she runs up to me and I'm like,

42:42

Chillie... You've only got eyes for Luna. I've

42:44

got... I just don't have enough hands. You

42:46

know what would be really great is if

42:48

Chillie had a couple of friends. No, we're

42:50

not taking your dogs that shit everywhere. Absolutely

42:52

not. What if she could re-poil it, train

42:54

them? Oh yeah, definitely what the house of

42:56

the baby needs is three dogs inside. Three

42:58

dogs, exactly. Three unpredictable dogs. Absolutely not. My

43:00

best is that over the weekend on

43:03

Easter Sunday, actually, my 31-year-old

43:05

brother got baptized. And

43:08

he was baptized as a kid because we

43:10

grew up Catholic. But I guess this is like,

43:12

it's part of the Baptist Church. Anyway.

43:14

So he's like been baptized in a new

43:16

religion. Yes. And like a thing where you

43:18

stand up and you say, like, I believe

43:21

that Jesus died on the cross and rose.

43:23

So it's like instead of your parents

43:26

just making a decision for you, you

43:28

proactively recommit

43:30

to your faith. And you know how we've talked

43:32

about before how like as

43:34

an adult, you get these moments, right? You

43:36

get a wedding day, maybe it's a baby,

43:39

maybe it's a career milestone. Engagement. Engagement. Book

43:41

launch. Where you get to be the main

43:43

character. Live show. And then there are people

43:45

who might choose, and I don't know what

43:47

my brother will do, but who maybe choose

43:49

not to get married and don't have babies.

43:51

And they're like, all I do is buy

43:53

gifts for people who are getting married. Right?

43:56

But to see my brother get

43:58

a moment. for something

44:01

that is really meaningful.

44:04

And he talked about anxiety and depression throughout his

44:06

20s and basically... Did he have to give a

44:08

speech? Yes, so they do kind of... Oh, wow.

44:11

And it was the most amazing speech. He's

44:13

just the best speaker. He basically said,

44:15

like, I felt like I didn't know what

44:17

I was doing and I'd lost my way

44:19

a bit. And for

44:22

him, he articulated it really clearly, which

44:24

was like professing his faith

44:26

in God or Jesus or however he

44:28

says it is about professing his faith

44:30

in his own life. And

44:32

it's like, he has faith in his life again.

44:35

Very life-affirming. And to

44:37

think in a community at all, but

44:39

of people who are talking about

44:41

values and dying and

44:44

all the things that we're all thinking about all

44:46

the time and meaning was so

44:48

refreshing. And I walked in with Luna who was

44:50

chatting away. And of course you've got that anxiety

44:52

of like, oh, it's going to be quiet. She's going to be... Luna

44:55

came up and was like, if she talks, we

44:57

have toys set up in the corner. Like, this

44:59

isn't, don't you dare think you've got to leave

45:01

and turn to your baby. So there were babies

45:03

chatting. And I forgot that

45:05

that's what this is all about. Like

45:07

it's so diverse. There's a five-year-old boy

45:09

and an 85-year-old man and there's people

45:11

with intellectual disabilities and it

45:14

just was this incredible bringing together of people.

45:16

And I saw how happy it made my

45:18

brother and it was just the most difficult

45:20

thing. That was beautiful. Formalized

45:22

religion, I know there are a lot

45:24

of critics of it, but one thing when

45:26

you go into a house of worship, and I'm

45:28

always reminded of this when I go into a

45:30

church or a synagogue, it's

45:32

devoid of cynicism. Yes.

45:35

Yes. And we live in a culture of...

45:37

Of narc. ...gotta be cool, you know,

45:39

what's your hot take and you've got to be sarcastic and

45:41

you've got to be cynical and you've got to be like,

45:43

don't take anything too seriously. And

45:45

there's something so beautiful about, and it

45:47

doesn't have to be earnest. Yeah. It

45:50

doesn't have to be very funny, but it's just that lack

45:52

of cynicism that can feel really refreshing. That

45:55

search is within everyone. And

45:57

I just thought, you know, if you've had that

45:59

feeling... which I know a lot of people do and

46:01

mental health is something that a lot of people struggle

46:03

with and if this is where he's ended up, what

46:06

an incredible achievement. For

46:08

this to be the thing that liberates you

46:10

and that makes you, and with this particular

46:12

church that he's working with, he's also doing

46:14

a thing, a course where you go into

46:17

prisons and work with prisoners about rehabilitation and

46:19

when they leave and basically giving them hope

46:21

and there's this incredible rate of them not

46:23

going back because they feel like they've got

46:27

a life to live with. I always feel so proud. Yeah. It

46:30

was just so happy for him. It was the best thing,

46:32

coolest thing to say. Holly, what's your

46:34

worst? My worst is that Brent has

46:36

had a big skin cancer removed from

46:39

his face in the last week so

46:41

he's got this huge scar and it's

46:43

a reminder just like we had a

46:45

message from an out louder thanking you

46:47

Mia for your reminder

46:49

recently to go and get various medical checks.

46:51

Yeah, go get your boobs checked. Exactly. And

46:54

an out louder said she did that and as a result

46:56

has found out something that is life changing for her. Brent

46:59

is really diligent with his skin cancer checks because

47:01

he's had skin cancer before and so it's obviously

47:03

a risk for us. Yes, for him. He

47:06

had this one under his eye and it turned out

47:08

to be a nasty one so he's had it taken

47:11

out and he's had this big, big chunk

47:13

of his face taken out and he's

47:15

been really depressed about it. My

47:17

worst is that Brent is very

47:19

optimistic, upbeat person and whenever

47:21

he's knocked it's like none of us know what to

47:24

do. What about it

47:26

has knocked him? I

47:28

mean he's glad that they've got it and they've

47:30

got it in time but I think he just

47:33

is feeling vulnerable

47:35

and... Does it hurt?

47:38

Because my mum had one on her nose that was

47:40

like center of her face but she said it was

47:42

incredibly painful. She's very stoic about it but also the

47:44

fact when you have something that's right on your face

47:46

like that and it's a big, you've had to wear

47:48

this big bandage on his face for quite a while

47:50

so everyone you see, everywhere you go is like what's

47:52

happened to you mate? And

47:55

I think it's just that reminder all the

47:57

time of he feels a

47:59

bit old. He feels a bit like, oh,

48:01

you know, vulnerable. It's important

48:03

to keep on top of these things, but also

48:05

ideally you don't get to that point where

48:08

you have to have a large bits of yourself carved off. So

48:10

another reminder, if you've got a little

48:12

something anywhere or if it's time, just

48:15

go get it checked. See you sooner

48:17

the better. My best is that Brent,

48:19

including his face bandage and I and

48:21

the kids and my mother's group went

48:23

camping this long break. As we

48:25

do every year, long time outliers will know that I

48:27

only go camping once a year and it's with my

48:30

mother's group who we all met when Matilda was a

48:32

baby. So that is now 14 years ago and we

48:35

still go camping together every year.

48:37

How many of you are left?

48:39

So the hard core of my

48:41

mother's group was like six families.

48:44

There was many more of us, but like people who

48:46

kind of bonded and became good mates and went traveling

48:48

together every year. One of those

48:50

families has moved to Tasmania, which is very selfish.

48:53

Sometimes they still come, but this year they didn't because it's

48:55

not school holidays. Think next year we might make them come

48:57

again. So there were five families

49:00

who went this time and it

49:02

was great fun. But last week I

49:04

wrote a piece about the phone panic

49:07

with kids. And I wrote in

49:09

that about iPhone panic and how we all, our kids are

49:11

all living through phones. And in it, I

49:13

wrote that I've got a bit of a new filter, which is prioritizing.

49:17

It's too late to try and wean my kids off phones,

49:19

right? I'm just like me. We're all addicted to our phones.

49:22

I've got a little bit of a chance here with Billy

49:24

because he still doesn't have his own phone yet. But

49:27

how old's Billy, Ian? He is 11. He'll

49:30

get one when he goes to high school. But I'm

49:33

prioritizing if something's in real life, then yes,

49:35

it's a yes. You know what I mean?

49:38

When they're like, can I do X? And I'm like, is

49:40

it in real life? Then yes. And

49:42

we had this weekend, we were

49:44

lucky with the weather in New South Wales for Easter. It

49:46

was beautiful. And we had this weekend

49:48

of the kids who were teenagers and all too cool

49:51

for school, you know, and like kind of start the

49:53

weekend by grunting at each other. And by the end

49:55

of the weekend, they're like, can we all sleep in

49:57

the same tent? They're running up and down San

49:59

Juns. spending all day in the surf

50:01

and like in real life experiences. It

50:04

was beautiful. It was important. I loved it.

50:06

And that was my best of the week. And

50:08

I got to hang out with my girlfriend, so

50:10

even better for me. But I hear there were

50:12

a few outlouders at the campsite. There were a

50:14

few outlouders at the campsite. Outlouders like to camp

50:16

or at least they do so under sufferance. Some of

50:18

the outlouders were chasing around after toddlers. Some were on

50:21

Margies in the afternoon. It

50:23

was a glorious thing. They're everywhere. They're

50:25

outlouders. Loved seeing it in the wild.

50:27

And if you want more, have you

50:29

ever had a burning question you've wanted

50:32

to ask us? Because on yesterday's episode,

50:34

we did an Ask Me Anything and

50:36

we had a really interesting conversation about

50:38

the things we've regretted saying on

50:41

the podcast. Oh, yeah. I spent

50:43

my whole last weekend thinking of more. And I was

50:45

like, I think I can compile a list. And then

50:47

at the end of every week, we can sit down

50:49

and say everything we regret. All the opinions we've changed

50:52

our minds on. A link to that episode will be

50:54

in the show notes. Now, we know

50:56

that there are a lot of you who want to

50:58

come along to our live show. Mama

51:00

Mia Outloud Live presented Anivia Cellula. But

51:02

feel a bit nervous about being on

51:04

your own. Now, at every show, we

51:06

are doing something special. There's going to

51:08

be a spot in the foil for

51:10

all the single ladies to get together

51:12

for a chat and maybe a bit

51:14

of a vino before the show. If

51:16

you've been holding off getting a ticket

51:18

because you can't be bothered to coordinate

51:20

anyone to come along with you or maybe listening to

51:22

Outloud is a bit of a solo activity. There

51:25

are so many other Outlouders like you. Find

51:28

a link in the show notes. Just grab a regular

51:30

single ticket and then on the night head to the

51:32

single ladies sign in the foil. There'll be a big

51:34

picture of Beyonce. And if you want to meet up

51:36

with other solo Outlouders beforehand, there are already people in

51:38

the group organizing meetups in the city. You don't have

51:40

to meet with more friends. You don't have to meet

51:43

with more friends. A single lady, by the way. Oh,

51:45

no. You don't have to meet a single lady to

51:47

go to the single ladies area. You just have to

51:49

be on your own coming to the show. If you've

51:52

already got your ticket and want to chat to other solo

51:54

Outlouders in the lead up to the show, head to the

51:56

Facebook group. We've got a thread in there just for that.

51:59

Thank You. You out Loud as as

52:01

always for to us and being with

52:03

us all week long that we love

52:06

Few! This episode was produced by Emily

52:08

Is Elysee System produces Charlie Blackmon with

52:10

audio production by Leopold and we will

52:12

talk to you next week we will.

52:16

Shout out to any well I'm a as

52:18

subscribers listening. If you love the. Size and

52:21

support us as well subscribing to.

52:23

Know the May I is it's very best way to

52:25

do so. There is a link in the episode description.