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0:40

Hello, and welcome along to the latest episode of

0:42

the Manchester Is Red podcast from the Manchester Evening

0:45

News. I'm today's host, George Smith, and I'm pleased

0:47

to say that I'm joining my colleague and chief

0:49

united writer Samuel Lutkerson this Wednesday morning. Samuel, how

0:51

are you? Not bad, thank you.

0:53

How are you? Very well, thank

0:56

you, Samuel. Good to hear all is

0:58

well at your end too. Well, after

1:00

a busy eventful Easter period for Manchester

1:02

United, they put a free midweek this

1:04

week, which is a rarity after a

1:06

pretty chaotic Easter period with three games

1:08

in a week. But that didn't stop

1:10

the news coming for United with this

1:12

big announcement coming on Tuesday. Yes, days

1:14

we record this off the pitch with

1:16

John Murtagh leaving Old Trafford. His position

1:18

of football director has come to

1:20

an end. His resignation was accepted last

1:23

week and it means to

1:25

Jim Ratcliffe is continuing to shape things up at

1:27

the top of the football club. Samuel

1:30

in truth, this is a decision that's been fairly

1:32

obvious to most it was going to happen at

1:34

some point you report as far back as November

1:36

that it was likely. And here we

1:38

are now and John Murtagh's time at Old Trafford is

1:40

officially over. Yes,

1:42

it's not a surprise. He's

1:45

been quite prominent, very visible still

1:47

in recent months. But as

1:49

soon as it was clear that Ineos were

1:51

going to be coming in at United and

1:53

that was October time.

1:57

And I think they were getting their ducks lined

1:59

up quite early. The and that there were

2:01

gonna be changes to the structure that

2:03

was going to be a restructure and

2:06

there aren't too many sounds less if

2:08

you like from the way to at

2:10

would would error or era and Dad

2:12

and and John Murtha is is one

2:15

of one of those and or a

2:17

thing just by virtue of association with

2:19

Woodward and that that particular period and

2:21

united recent history his his position was

2:24

was untenable which was It is a

2:26

little bit unfair on him but when

2:28

new people come in. And any organization

2:30

that tend to be changes in there

2:33

tends to be upheaval sooner or later.

2:35

Remember asking some people united back in

2:37

January or February or Com and which

2:39

month about it did? It was around

2:41

that time that browse, which was common

2:43

in quite a law and was quite

2:45

visible early on. and I said as

2:47

the has men in L paypal it's

2:49

whether it's just been business as usual.

2:51

nothing that tends to be the case

2:53

but one point or another. Eventually. Some.

2:56

Point down the line that dude and

2:58

be quiet and in cook. Quite substantial

3:00

changes in the cases which Donald he

3:03

he jumped before he was pushed There

3:05

was always going to be new chief

3:07

executive come in and at John Murtha.

3:10

It I think I did the and

3:12

many people really looked is Roland for

3:15

yet any else will continue with him

3:17

just because he has. He had been

3:19

at Manchester United sir a long time.

3:22

Think he starts in December twenty thirteen.

3:24

He'd done a number of rows before

3:26

he was appointed the Football Director. In.

3:29

March, Twenty Twenty one and recruitment

3:31

is still one of the biggest

3:33

problems at Manchester United. Mcmurdo was

3:35

billed as a six of by

3:37

at would would put as a

3:39

lot that still coconut United and

3:42

that's not Nurses does not entirely

3:44

mattress full by any stretch and

3:46

if you have to assess his.

3:49

Is tenuous. As football director,

3:51

I would have a. Cunt.

3:53

and have done a patient at this morning

3:55

that the that touches upon it's he absolutely

3:57

got it right in a point in our

4:00

it's and hog from Rocio Pochettino. You look

4:02

at Pochettino over the past five years, I

4:04

think he's a manager, a coach who's been

4:06

in gradual decline really and

4:08

that wasn't an obvious decision to make at

4:11

the time. I said it time and again

4:13

that I was of the opinion that it

4:15

should be Pochettino to come in and

4:18

as the permanent successor to Oleg

4:20

Onsolska, murder went with

4:22

Tenharg and despite the way this

4:25

season has gone, he made the right decision there.

4:27

He put a lot of legwork in on

4:30

the Casamiro deal, about three months

4:32

worth to convince him that United

4:34

was a challenge worth accepting. Casamiro

4:36

was probably their most influential player

4:39

last season. Unfortunately for

4:41

Murta, unfortunately for Tenharg, it's

4:44

this second season, the second full

4:46

season in the case

4:48

of Tenharg that is current and

4:50

it's still ongoing and that's what

4:53

Murta is probably likely to be remembered

4:56

for more than some

4:58

good decisions along the way. I

5:00

think his intention in bringing Ralph

5:02

Rangley kin to

5:04

kind of be this objective troubleshooter

5:06

was perfectly sound

5:08

and refreshing because United

5:11

had to comply in a culture

5:13

under Woodward but

5:16

Ralph Rangley should have been in the director's box, he

5:18

shouldn't have been in the dugout and

5:20

going back to that appointment in March 2021, the

5:24

interesting thing at the time was that

5:28

if you were to go back a little

5:30

bit further even, five years to when Solskjaer

5:32

was upgraded from caretaker to permanent manager, the

5:35

main story around it was that United

5:37

were close to appointing a technical director

5:39

as they were billed at the time

5:41

and Edward Wood told us this as

5:43

well, this was March 2019. Now

5:46

that appointment didn't happen until two years

5:48

later and when it did happen it

5:50

was a technical director and a football

5:52

director being appointed

5:54

and those two people were John

5:56

Murta and Darren Fletcher, Two men

5:58

who were right on United's back. It's doorstep.

6:00

So the question was why did it

6:03

take to years to look to

6:05

internal candidates and a murder of really

6:07

he was. He wasn't

6:09

an unlock the as candidate and because

6:12

he'd been at the club for a

6:14

long time and he had dealt with

6:16

the recruitment side of things and savers

6:19

for example, he was there when I

6:21

like he was. He picked up Alexis

6:23

Sanchez from the airport. He drove Alex

6:26

Allies in to Carrington back in the

6:28

days when yeah to in a cat

6:30

social distancing and though these protocols to

6:32

adhere by a he introduced himself as

6:35

the Director of Football when he recruited

6:37

for the women's team. In

6:39

twenty eighteen, so he was kind of warming

6:41

up for it. but from what I was

6:43

told, it wasn't a role that he actually

6:45

wanted. He didn't see himself as a direct

6:47

to the. Yet

6:49

United offered it to him and.

6:52

If you're offered that low, it would

6:54

take a very brave man to say

6:56

no to it because is the opportunity

6:58

of a lifetime. And it was that

7:01

the option to to be the inaugural

7:03

Football Directorate united this role that I've

7:05

never had before and that taken far

7:07

too long to to install. But

7:10

here we all three years later

7:12

these tendencies resignation and he was

7:14

on borrowed time for number of

7:16

months of the everybody could see

7:18

that. As you said, I did

7:20

the story back in November and

7:22

big. A he he was a bit of

7:24

a he was bit of a victim of

7:26

if the street strategic review in a way

7:28

that had the strategic review know happens you

7:30

nice probably carrying on regardless with him that

7:32

that doubtless would have been scrutiny over his

7:35

role every now and then. But

7:37

he i thought you in the whole

7:39

this period and Ten Hog when you

7:41

look at night, his recruitment a dancing

7:44

him can necessarily point the finger at

7:46

John Murtha because the signings very much

7:48

And on Ten Hog say so. And

7:50

that's structural problem. At United

7:53

and so. That that's

7:55

That's a decision that should be taken above

7:57

month. So that's session that Richard on on

7:59

should have. Made in

8:01

set in and if anything try to empower

8:03

much more to say no to tend hall

8:06

can look at if you go about ten

8:08

hotspots of a transfer window. It

8:11

ended well but it ended well

8:13

that they went about it in

8:15

the wrong way that that to

8:17

customers signing that the Anthony signing

8:19

stove has been on both of

8:21

them and they were both appeasement

8:23

signings after to really really die

8:25

results against Brighton and Brentford. There

8:27

was a a panicky element about

8:29

them and that that was his

8:31

on. They couldn't panic. the season

8:33

went quite well but again either.

8:35

But is that the reason Summer

8:37

transfer window that were deadline day

8:39

signings and. They they yielded ten Haga

8:42

who really wanted softly and I'm robots and

8:44

sofie Number by is barely planes United. It

8:46

was A. It was a bit of a

8:48

surprise when he came on a weekend against

8:50

Liverpool. Is not played in the Premier League

8:53

much at all this calendar year that that

8:55

might be one is. Make. Two

8:57

or three appearances he's made since

8:59

since we entered twins. Twenty four

9:01

So, but Mercer could say no

9:03

to ten hard because he he

9:05

did either. Hachim see a cube.

9:08

Coincidentally is is it isn't see

9:10

my of Am robot sets him

9:12

at international level. So in terms

9:14

of his his legacy united, I

9:17

don't think it's an entirely on

9:19

favorable bomb because he did make

9:21

some good decisions. Journeys relatively brief

9:23

stints as Football Director and I

9:25

are dealt with him number of

9:28

times. Knee was extremely amiable and

9:30

approachable. And he did

9:32

one to cultivate a more communicative

9:34

culture with us dedicated close bonds

9:37

because he saw the value in.

9:40

Offering us and tidbits often

9:42

us insights and. Opening

9:44

up the doors to us as well at

9:46

times a month at with with all had.

9:48

Now a comprehensive tour of Carrington

9:51

and that is mainly thanks to

9:53

him and default and our perception

9:55

of Karen. Some would have been

9:57

this run down. like

10:00

this training facility that

10:03

is not state of the art, that really

10:05

is unbecoming of Managedianity and it

10:07

certainly can be improved and there's

10:10

a lot that needs to be

10:12

done to get it back to where

10:14

it was when it first opened its doors in 2000. But

10:18

it is better inside than we

10:20

all thought and allowing

10:22

us that access, which is obviously

10:25

a privilege of this job and being able

10:27

to be there

10:29

in the canteen, see what the gym's like, see

10:31

what the pool's like. We didn't get

10:33

in the pool, I should add, didn't

10:35

get in the gym or anything like that. But

10:38

having a look around, it's

10:40

beneficial for Managedianity because

10:43

they're cultivating, they're

10:46

fostering a good relationship with

10:48

journalists that hasn't always

10:50

been as good as it should be and it's

10:54

beyond beneficial for us, it's brilliant for

10:56

us because we can write until our

10:58

hearts content about it and it's pretty

11:00

fascinating as well to inform readers of

11:03

what it is actually like behind

11:05

those closed doors. So he

11:08

did a lot of good work beyond the, you

11:11

say the words football director and people

11:13

just associated with recruitment and quite rightly

11:15

so. And that has been far

11:17

from plain sailing and there

11:19

have been mistakes along the way there and

11:22

with some of the players that

11:24

they signed this summer, maybe they'll turn out to be

11:26

brilliant United players, maybe they won't be, but

11:28

the majority of those players, they were signed

11:31

on 10 hard say so and that was

11:33

a structural problem. The whole,

11:36

the issue of saying to

11:38

a manager, you can pick and

11:40

choose when in this day

11:42

and age, it's the director

11:44

of football who's doing the majority of the picking

11:46

and choosing and they've got their ducks lined up

11:49

right from the get go and that's not

11:51

always been the case at United. But

11:53

there was definitely a shift with murder after

11:55

I did that story in November and others

11:58

did stories about... I'm

12:00

getting a ride back Ashworth as well of course towards

12:02

the end of last year and others did as well.

12:05

Normally if you encountered him

12:07

at Old Trafford or Carrington

12:10

or somewhere or other, he

12:12

would do as much to catch your eyes, you'd

12:14

do to catch his eye just to have a

12:16

quick chat and say hello and shoot

12:18

the breeze. And at Newport County

12:20

after the FA Cup game he was in

12:23

conversation with Dave Brailsford, we

12:25

were coming in the opposite direction and I

12:28

thought this is maybe a decent opportunity to

12:30

have a relatively

12:32

private informal introduction to

12:38

Brailsford and Brailsford of course has been

12:40

burned by the press way

12:42

more than murder has in the past. But

12:44

murder just looks straight ahead and kind

12:46

of rather not maybe expertly blanked us,

12:48

I'm not too sure what the right

12:50

phrase would be necessarily. And

12:52

then he chose not

12:55

to acknowledge us at the Unit Memorial then at

12:57

Old Trafford and on Sunday he

12:59

was just by the tunnel as we were

13:01

approaching the mix zone and

13:04

when he saw some journalists approaching the mix zone who

13:06

he recognised that was his cue to go into the

13:08

tunnel and if you access the mix zone you go

13:10

up a gangway next to it. So by

13:13

the end of it I don't harbour a

13:16

grudge whatsoever against him for

13:18

that, it can't be pleasant when you're

13:20

reading stories that are

13:23

charting your possible

13:25

departure or your probable departure in this

13:27

case from the club, it's not going

13:29

to be pleasant but

13:31

that's an occupational hazard of working

13:34

from Manchester United. Yeah absolutely

13:36

and you've raised some very valid points there and

13:38

you've given me insight that I wasn't aware of

13:40

how open he'd been with you and colleagues in

13:42

the past in giving you insight

13:44

into things behind the scenes because people obviously

13:46

don't work in this industry, football clubs can

13:49

be pretty secretive when it comes to things

13:51

and be very very tight on what they

13:53

are willing to leak or whatever like that.

13:56

But Would you say Samuel Overall: John Murtagh Not

13:58

just looking for a game? His role as football

14:01

directors whole time Old Trafford. would you say

14:03

he produced more positive than negative because that

14:05

settling seen that game. For more information you

14:07

share in the. I

14:09

would. Overall I mean to to

14:11

be a club for. Said.

14:14

More than just over ten, just

14:16

over ten years his. It isn't

14:18

achievement in itself, especially at that

14:20

level on I'm sure some people

14:22

will. Yeah, that

14:24

that Dell dispute that ends

14:26

that. There's no doubt that

14:28

this complying coaches it would

14:30

would. Cultivated. It it

14:32

did. Benefit. Mercer he was

14:34

never going to be someone says to rock

14:37

the boat and it was telling the two

14:39

weeks after he and our flagship got their

14:41

roles and twenty Twenty One the Keep Up.

14:44

Left the club because but was appointed

14:46

the that of the could mean twenty

14:48

six days. Which. Was falling on

14:50

know at that period way the Academy was

14:53

and state of flux and immersive and John

14:55

Alexander than the club sex at the time

14:57

nor nor particularly popular Man ice for the

14:59

club it must be said eve some of

15:01

these the uncle of trying Alexander on old

15:03

and and he is a Liverpool fan so

15:06

think a few at is called Muffins start

15:08

for they were jointly run the Academy for

15:10

most of twins you fifteen and Nicky Butt

15:12

to cousin that and then in some of

15:14

twenty nine same nick cops can you can

15:16

we hadn't I think Nicky Butt to com

15:19

that role as. Head of player

15:21

development think it might have been. And

15:24

just I've seen plays moon from

15:26

the academy going into men's football

15:28

hopeful in many place case insert

15:30

the United first team but but

15:33

clearly was looking for more senior

15:35

role and it wasn't surprised when

15:37

United announced that he last two

15:39

weeks after months left because but.

15:42

Didn't. Really the A didn't really care

15:44

so much of from was told that

15:46

was a shouting match one time occurrence

15:49

and ah were bought repeatedly brought up

15:51

as much as history on on Mercy

15:53

saw it because he attended John before

15:55

John most university. And. He

15:58

also wants rabbits and and if you been

16:00

to him as that those a point where

16:02

I couldn't work out with it. Was actually

16:04

born in Manchester or Liverpool because the I

16:07

think he likes of has got a slight

16:09

scouse twang. I don't know if there were

16:11

too many and yet the interviews of him

16:14

online where where people can go on you

16:16

tube and listen switzer themselves. The

16:19

Nikki Ball. Is. If anyone saw

16:21

him and if anyone knows his nature

16:23

of and of evidence gives him and

16:25

and watched him as apply of as

16:27

well you know his character and he's

16:29

going to be someone who will rock

16:31

the boat and that's why he blasted

16:33

split about eighteen months in the play

16:35

development role and of course is now

16:37

the chief executive. The. That

16:40

soul food city was murder. He did

16:42

it. It keeps powder dry. I think

16:44

he played the politics pretty well, but.

16:46

When. You. When. You over see

16:48

a lot work at the academy level and I

16:51

remember when I was that the F A Youth

16:53

Cup. Win against Chelsea in

16:55

December, Twenty eighteen when my son Greenwood

16:57

scored a hat trick and Chelsea. It

16:59

absolutely dominated the Youth Cup for for

17:01

five years and it was seen as

17:03

a shock that Monday nights it knocked

17:05

them out at the first round because

17:07

night and when the Youth Cup since

17:10

the classes Twenty Eleven of Pogba Morrison

17:12

and and lingered and here was this

17:14

not lifting night where they beat Chelsea

17:16

for three Greenwood School hat trick in

17:18

and Mertz It was absolutely pleased as

17:20

punch and he was one of those

17:22

people that when you. Encounter that meet you

17:24

thought having dealt with him in met him and

17:27

spoke to him a number of times he so

17:29

if if. If. Everyone that Munchies United

17:31

had the enthusiasm for months shut down.

17:33

Well that been a much better place

17:35

and they are the moment. Because he

17:38

did. He absolutely cared deeply about the

17:40

club or every single level he recruited.

17:42

The plan for the women's team. as

17:45

a said earlier and and that was

17:48

part of the reason why it would

17:50

would made in the football director because

17:52

he saw him as a fixer because

17:54

it was academy level eat eat overseeing

17:57

and the did that get that the

17:59

development of the

18:01

women's team, he'd dealt a lot with first

18:03

team matters as well. When it was Jose

18:05

Mourinho's first day at Carrington in

18:07

May 2016, Murtagh

18:09

was there at reception to greet him.

18:11

And I think his role at the

18:14

time was head of football development, which

18:16

he'd quietly been assigned and was

18:21

revealed by Woodward on one of the conference

18:23

calls earlier that year. So

18:26

he was involved with a hell of a lot. And

18:28

he was pushing for

18:31

improvement. There were no two ways about it.

18:33

He wasn't just someone who sat around

18:35

and was happy just to exist at

18:37

Manchester United. He wanted to justify his

18:40

existence, and he did want to get

18:43

them moving in different directions. I mean, even

18:46

at academy level, he was very much backing

18:49

the decision to be more decisive

18:52

in selling academy players

18:54

who just weren't going to get any... who

18:58

were never going to have that

19:00

pathway to the first team at United. He

19:03

was heavily involved in the academy recruitment

19:06

as well. You go back to that

19:08

final summer before the Brexit regulations kicked

19:10

in that prevented clubs and continued to

19:13

prevent clubs from being able to sign

19:15

overseas youngsters under the age of 18.

19:18

They got Garnaccio, they got Willy Campoala,

19:21

Alvaro Hernandez, and Mark

19:23

Horado. So far, that's looking two out

19:25

of four successes, which is pretty good

19:27

going still. I mean, it's better going

19:29

than the first team. So

19:32

I don't think he... As

19:34

I said, I don't think his time

19:36

should be remembered as an

19:40

unsuccessful period because he was a

19:43

bit of a jack of all trades until he got

19:46

that football director role in

19:49

March 2021. And

19:51

six months into

19:53

the role, of course,

19:56

United signed Cristiano Ronaldo, and you've

19:58

got Ed Woodward. to

20:00

claim credit. From Unsenited, resigning Cristiano

20:02

Ronaldo and Woodward was telling us two

20:04

years earlier around October 2019 time that

20:06

he had nothing to do with recruitment

20:09

and here he is trying to claim credit

20:12

for this coup but and let's face it

20:14

that coup was achieved through Sir Alex Ferguson's

20:16

intervention and some peer

20:18

pressure from some of Ronaldo's

20:21

former players so from from

20:23

Murtur's perspective it was

20:25

it was probably just as well that

20:27

he was a bystander amid that smash

20:29

and grab and beyond

20:32

other beyond the signings

20:34

and and recruitment

20:37

he was a big believer of data science

20:39

and he wanted he bought Dominic

20:41

Jordan in who I think is the head

20:43

of data science at the

20:46

club as well and he's I think

20:48

there'll be a lot of people at

20:51

United who will be sorry to see

20:53

him go from a professional and a personal

20:55

perspective I am

20:57

sorry to see him go we contrary to

21:00

what some people may think I don't think any

21:02

of us relish writing

21:04

stories about someone

21:07

leaving a club when we actually we actually

21:09

like them and we've had we've had good

21:11

interactions with them and that was certainly the

21:13

case with with John Murtur. Absolutely

21:16

and moving forward obviously this highlights that

21:18

Sir Jim Ratcliffe is continuing to shake

21:21

things up and make these alterations. Samuel

21:23

you've been a story this morning where Matt Hargreaves

21:26

is going to see oversee recruitment now certainly on

21:28

an interim basis with obviously United

21:30

still waiting on Dan Ashworth to come in

21:32

and Jason Wilcox as well so

21:35

it really is clear that Sir Jim Ratcliffe

21:37

wants to shake things up he's moving the

21:39

club in the right direction as you've headlined

21:41

your piece this morning United are making these

21:43

changes that are potentially five years too late

21:45

which shows positive steps are being taken under the

21:47

new regime very very quickly. Yes

21:49

and it's it was an open goal for

21:52

them and they are they are taking it

21:54

which is encouraging for United I think all

21:56

the all the moves they've

21:58

made so far in the host. since

22:01

they came in, since Jim

22:03

Ratcliffe became the co-owner, have

22:06

been very positive. Obviously,

22:08

Barada, you're getting someone from

22:11

probably the best-run elite football club in

22:13

the world. I know that

22:15

the Premier League may have something to say about that with the

22:18

115 charges, and that

22:20

is certainly something that needs to be

22:22

addressed sooner rather than later, but beyond

22:24

the potential or alleged book-cooking that's gone

22:26

on at Manchester City, at every level

22:29

of their infrastructure, they are best in

22:31

class and have been for quite some

22:33

time. Dan Ashworth has got a really

22:35

good reputation from the work he's done

22:38

with BFA, with Brighton, with

22:41

Newcastle, also going back as

22:43

far to his time at West Brom.

22:45

I know the Sandro Tenali signing is

22:47

going to be something that's held

22:50

against him, and I think in the eyes of

22:52

many Newcastle fans, that'll probably define his legacy at

22:54

the club. It's very,

22:57

very difficult when

22:59

you're doing due diligence on a player

23:01

to unearth a player's gambling addicts or

23:03

any form of addiction, especially when the

23:05

player is doing their utmost to conceal

23:07

that addiction. I think you

23:09

just have to dismiss that as an aberration.

23:12

Jason Wilcox will be interested to see what

23:15

his specific remit is. I

23:18

certainly think that his experience

23:20

as Academy Director at Manchester City

23:22

is potentially more important from a

23:24

United perspective, in

23:32

that City have done phenomenally

23:34

well-obtaining borderline

23:36

extravagant fees for Academy players who have

23:38

never ever got close to playing for

23:40

the first team. James Trafford being a

23:42

great example in the summer, United

23:45

have not used their Academy as a

23:47

cash cow, and that applies to a

23:49

number of players in recent times. James

23:51

Garner could have got a higher fee

23:53

for him after a superb season

23:55

on loan at

23:57

Nottingham Forest when they got promotion to the

23:59

Championship. Ted and Mengy was

24:01

effectively given away for a meal deal to

24:03

Luton in the summer. Now

24:06

he's a Premier League regular and

24:08

an England under 21 international. His

24:11

valuation ballpark figure is probably 10 million

24:13

pounds now and I know he had

24:15

some really unfortunate injury issues at United

24:17

and in the end it was

24:19

you know they decided to cut their losses but

24:21

they they really did give him away and they

24:24

hopefully for their sake there's quite a hefty sell-on

24:26

clause if he does move on

24:28

from Luton because I think there's every chance they could get

24:30

a good good fee for him should

24:32

they go down and he moves on in the

24:34

summer we'll wait and see. Even

24:38

more of a legacy play as far as

24:40

the Academy is concerned Jesse Lingard in 2021

24:42

he was brilliant online at

24:44

West Ham. West Ham

24:46

set aside money to sign effectively to sign

24:48

him it was clear that he

24:50

should be sold because he'd entered the last year

24:52

of his contract then you've got an indecisive manager

24:55

who can't make his mind up whether he

24:57

should stay or go I mean that is

24:59

a decision that Murtagh should have taken out

25:01

of Oleg on the Solskjaer's hand set. No

25:03

look we're getting 30-35 million pounds for this

25:05

player he's been brilliant we've got to

25:07

strike while the iron's hot we've got to sell him

25:09

it makes complete sense so that's

25:12

going to be a challenge for

25:15

whoever is I mean Nick Cox

25:17

has done I think tremendous work as the Academy

25:19

head at United since he came in in the

25:21

summer of 2019 and there

25:24

are so many so many highs

25:27

over that that period but

25:29

the failure to obtain really good fees

25:32

for some really good players in the

25:34

case of those three just named there

25:37

is still is still a black mark

25:39

against them and that's something that they've

25:41

really got to tap into Wilcox's knowledge

25:43

of because I'd be looking at that

25:45

more as his as his specialty

25:47

rather than what he's done at Southampton he's

25:49

only been at Southampton for nine months as

25:52

the director of football and of course they've

25:54

made a very good managerial appointment in Russell

25:56

Martin del Dautler's being the playoffs I think

25:59

automatically promotion is probably beyond them

26:01

now, especially after that dramatic defeat

26:03

to Ipswich last week. And

26:06

yeah, looking at his

26:08

body of work at football administrative level, you're looking more

26:10

at what he's done at the

26:13

Academy side at City rather than what

26:16

he's done at Southampton so far. But if

26:18

you'll become the technical director of Manchester United,

26:20

it would indicate that

26:23

your remit is going to extend

26:26

well beyond the Academy. Absolutely.

26:29

And that does conclude part one of this

26:31

episode of Manchester City's Red Podcast. Do rejoin

26:33

us in part two. We'll have a little

26:35

bit more conversation on matters off the pitch

26:37

and where Sir Jim Ratcliffe might lead United

26:39

this summer. Welcome

26:55

back to part two of the Manchester

26:57

is Red Podcast with myself, George Smith

26:59

and Samuel Luckhurst. Samuel, you discussed

27:02

in part one about Dan Ashworth being a

27:04

name that you've been writing about for several

27:06

months now. He is the man that United

27:08

wants to Jim Ratcliffe has openly admitted that.

27:10

And United are obviously in the position now where they're

27:13

having to play a waiting game to be able to

27:15

get hold of him. He's still on guard from Newcastle

27:17

United because people being no real progress with

27:19

the regional agreement for Newcastle to buy

27:22

his contract out. United

27:24

ultimately, though, they're probably making the right decision

27:26

in waiting for him. They've set their target.

27:28

Ineos have made it crystal clear they want

27:30

him. They don't want anybody else. I

27:33

think it's a positive step, even if it means

27:35

waiting, that United have clearly got their prime target

27:37

in position. It's going to be him. We'll wait

27:39

however long it takes, but it's going to be

27:41

worth it. I think that's the general perception, the

27:43

way United are looking at it, isn't it? I

27:47

would assume so. And in the

27:50

case of Matt Hargreaves, where he's now,

27:52

as I said, he's overseeing recruitment plans,

27:54

he was heavily involved last summer. He's

27:56

been the de facto replacement for Matt

27:59

Judge. who was the director of

28:01

football negotiations, I believe it was, he left

28:03

in 2022, unsurprisingly,

28:05

shortly after Woodward. You had

28:07

that, the University

28:10

of Bristol alumni is there,

28:12

Woodward's judge, Richard Arnold's, they're

28:14

all gone now. That

28:17

era, that culture is pretty much ended,

28:20

which is for the better. I mean,

28:22

again, dealt with some of them on

28:26

a number of occasions, and they could

28:28

be really good to deal with, and,

28:30

generalistically, that's what you want.

28:32

You want to be able to have

28:34

insight and have cordial

28:37

working relationships. But

28:40

when you look at, when you assess their

28:42

time at United, was it a success or

28:44

a failure? It was an undeniable failure. So

28:46

they're having to move on from there. And

28:48

when you've got a new co-owner coming in,

28:51

who's in charge of football operations, you

28:54

really have got to change the

28:56

makeup of the structure and

28:59

there is, of course, a restructure that's

29:03

underway now. In

29:05

fairness to Hargreaves, I mean, I wrote back

29:07

in, I think it was September time that

29:10

the early word was that

29:12

people were quite impressed with him and that he

29:15

was trying to change the culture at United as

29:17

well, and they absolutely need that. And I mean,

29:19

in terms of changing the culture in

29:22

the transfer market, they do

29:24

need to become more principled now. And

29:28

really, if they don't qualify for the Champions League

29:30

this summer, I do

29:32

see it as an opportunity for them to

29:35

really set a new standard in terms of

29:37

the transfer market because yes, if they didn't

29:40

qualify for the Champions League, it

29:42

was always their most extravagant spending in the transfer

29:44

window, 2014, 2016, and 2019. In

29:50

each of those summers, they spent, I

29:52

think it was around between 140 to 152 million pounds, I

29:58

think in the 2014. summer, it

30:01

went just beyond that with the

30:03

Madam El Falcao loan deal. And

30:05

then of course their record summer

30:07

of spending was in 2022, which

30:09

again, was after failure to qualify

30:11

for the Champions League. They

30:14

can't be as extravagant now, because

30:16

of the profitability and sustainability rules.

30:19

But also, they can't

30:22

be allowed, they can't be spending 100

30:24

million euros on a winger that

30:26

they wanted all summer pretty

30:28

much on deadline day. They

30:31

absolutely cannot do that for very

30:34

obvious reasons. And it will

30:36

be very interesting to see how the transfer

30:39

market plays out for them. But

30:42

until maybe three years ago, City were,

30:44

although they spent a hell of a

30:46

lot of money, of course, they

30:48

were pretty principled in terms of never

30:50

spending more than 60 or 65 million

30:53

pounds on a player. I think the exception

30:55

was Jack Grealish, who of course cost 100

30:57

million pounds. And when you

30:59

look at their two strikers, Erling

31:02

Haaland and Julian Alvarez, I don't think

31:04

they spend, in terms

31:06

of transfer fees, that they'd have come in under

31:09

70 million pounds, I think. United

31:11

spent more overall, or have

31:13

committed to spending more on Rasmus Hoyland. So

31:16

however way you look at it, I think, in

31:18

terms of the order that Dave Brailsford will have

31:20

done, it's not difficult

31:23

to pinpoint all these errors

31:25

along the way, whether they've turned out to be

31:27

successes or whether they've turned out to be failures.

31:31

But I really hope United say that

31:33

they don't get into these negotiations where

31:35

they are overspending on players, because

31:37

you have got to change the culture and they

31:39

have to see this as an opportunity to

31:42

do so. There are new people running

31:44

the show. There could be a new

31:46

manager in charge as well for the

31:48

summer. And I think a

31:51

lot of managers, they will be fully

31:53

aware of the

31:55

financial realities now, because

31:59

teams are getting deducted points and there

32:01

have been three separate press releases

32:03

from the Premier League this season

32:06

on teams being deducted points for

32:08

breaching financial regulations. Clubs

32:10

are very careful of it. United have been very

32:12

mindful of financial fair play for a fair

32:15

old while now, which accounted

32:18

for a number of players

32:20

leaving in the January transfer window

32:22

with their wages being

32:25

covered in full

32:27

or a large portion

32:29

of by the clubs who

32:31

are bringing them in on loan. And

32:34

of course, if they're not in

32:36

the Champions League next season, that does have a significant

32:38

bearing on what they could do in the market. I

32:41

remember in 2017 doing a story that

32:44

Jose Mourinho had actually compiled two separate

32:47

transfer lists, depending on whether United qualified

32:49

for the Champions League or not, because

32:51

their season, of course, came down to

32:53

the Europa League final and

32:55

the season being a

32:58

success hinged on that game. Fortunately,

33:00

if United, they won it, they qualified for

33:03

the Champions League. The season was a success

33:05

and they were able to flex their

33:07

muscles in the transfer

33:09

market more than they would have been

33:11

had they lost that final tri-ax in Stockholm.

33:14

The weight shaping up at the moment, it would be a

33:18

minor miracle if they're in

33:20

the Champions League next season, given the state

33:22

of play in the Premier League. But

33:25

again, although that will have dire consequences for the

33:28

finances, I'm sure, see it

33:30

as an opportunity to have

33:32

a clean slate, to establish this new culture

33:34

in the transfer market, to have your ducks

33:36

lined up for players that you want to

33:38

get out this summer. And if you can't

33:40

get them out this summer, you know they're

33:42

going next summer. You look to

33:44

next summer, if Donny

33:46

Van Der Beek is somehow still at Manchester United

33:49

beyond the closure of the summer transfer window, he's

33:51

out of contract next year, he is going. So

33:54

the countdown is already on until he leaves

33:56

United, it's just a case of when. But

33:59

There are other players. The who on the same

34:01

length contract to a sellable assets mean

34:03

is if they're not getting a decency

34:05

for for conduct blistering summer there will

34:08

be something wrong because he's playing caught

34:10

a lot in Spain. He's got a

34:12

very very good profile is it starts

34:14

to few why. You. Should begin,

34:16

they should be making a profit

34:18

on him. However, peripheral he's been

34:20

for Manchester United since he came

34:22

in from Penn year old and

34:24

indulged in October. Twenty twenty he

34:26

has done pretty well career wise,

34:28

I've ruled planet well, cop I

34:31

think. Started in two of you

34:33

acquire three games so as as

34:35

unsuccessful as this season may turn

34:37

out to be. They've.

34:39

They've the. I. Think I

34:41

looked on the annual compass. Bet

34:44

and Us does that am the words

34:46

they don't like and cons is one

34:48

of them And so. On

34:51

a completely agree with that. they take the

34:53

shouldn't be looking at these plays. I'm thinking

34:55

what we saddled with them we can't sell

34:57

them. They can

34:59

sell them and yes done with won't

35:01

be in there and yes they'll be

35:03

some upheaval as well and if next

35:06

season doesn't turn. Particular positively

35:08

in your skin's I will let We didn't

35:10

have done us was in the summer were

35:12

restructuring we didn't qualify for Champions league so

35:14

that. Of. See wreaked havoc with the

35:17

plans as well. so. I don't

35:19

think it, sir. I. Don't think

35:21

it's.dot.invidious a position for them to be

35:23

in ah compared to previous some as

35:25

he nice if hardware aegis know how

35:28

is the kind of know how it's

35:30

going to play out before its Ethan

35:32

started. I think I've got to see

35:34

the summer as it is a pretty

35:37

good opportunity to. To.

35:39

To really establish a new month

35:41

she cited in in in every

35:43

sense possible of course, There's.

35:45

Still one more big decision to be made

35:47

and that is on the manage. And of

35:50

course. Whatever. The restructure

35:52

is the manager is still. Guns have

35:54

a big bearing on recruitment. Yeah,

35:57

definitely. There's no doubt about the Us all the

35:59

i think. That me from from our point

36:01

of view in the in the job that

36:03

we do at innocently and elements of intrigue

36:05

ahead of this summer. whatever happens in the

36:07

next. For five weeks with the Essay Cup

36:09

semi final United remaining seven Premier League games,

36:11

he sent me an exciting time. I feel

36:14

to be covering the club because there is

36:16

so much into you about what might happen

36:18

in the summer, what could happen next season.

36:20

But ultimately. As you said what

36:22

rally so really is an opportunity be said this

36:24

summer weather United in the Champions League on off

36:26

to wipe the slate clean whoever the manager raised

36:29

and and build something fresh. Yes,

36:32

and it's a good thing. Reckless is

36:35

totes a very good game. So far

36:37

it's now it's them said. Supply a

36:39

good game on the pitch, in in

36:41

the boardroom and in the marketplace, and

36:44

do their utmost to have as as

36:46

good United squad as possible next season

36:48

and slow as a road the other

36:50

day. They can clear the decks to

36:53

an extent in that there were seven

36:55

players. As. Get.

36:57

Serious profile Who A senior players

37:00

that they can just get rid

37:02

of because that comes into their

37:04

contracts and. They

37:06

can that they can sense of and

37:08

I'm about bunch of you're insane that

37:11

because this certainly no can be taken

37:13

up the options i him. But then

37:15

it is undermined by. The.

37:17

Lone Pine is coming back and of. With.

37:20

With a couple of them, some show

37:22

and greenwood there is. There is considerable

37:24

package there as well because of a

37:26

lot of United fans were not. One

37:28

son said to a for the club

37:30

again after he accused the manage of

37:32

line. It was pets who them

37:35

under his next season and a lot

37:37

of United fans will not want may

37:39

some Greenwich place the club ever again

37:41

and fan power. Force. Them

37:44

into that climb down and the some insight

37:46

you turn that the only reason may some

37:48

Greenwood has not played for months shy of

37:50

the season and is online. It had to

37:53

say it because of supporters and there are

37:55

lots supports. I'm sure he would want to

37:57

see him play for the club again, but

37:59

ultimately. because

38:02

of the reaction to

38:04

the plan to reintegrate

38:06

him into the squad. That

38:08

is why he is a head taffy,

38:10

why he's playing in Spain. And

38:13

Jim Ratcliffe has said there'll be a fresh decision

38:15

on that, but he also said, he posed

38:18

the question, would the fans be comfortable, sincerely

38:21

comfortable with him playing for Manchester United again?

38:24

I don't think within a year's time they

38:26

would be comfortable with Mason Greenwood

38:28

playing for Manchester United again, a lot of them,

38:30

maybe the majority of them wouldn't be comfortable with

38:32

him. There are always going to be some that

38:34

will want him to play again. I think

38:39

people who are trying to speak on

38:41

behalf of Manchester United fans,

38:44

saying that the fans want him back in, they

38:47

need to do their research, because it was

38:49

fan power that ensured he is not in

38:51

the squad this season, that ensured that he

38:53

is not on the back of the programmes

38:55

on the squad list. So

38:58

those two decisions, they have really got

39:00

to decisively

39:02

sort out in

39:05

June. And I think they should have

39:08

made those decisions by now already, but you cannot

39:10

have a scenario of United

39:12

coming back in for pre-season training,

39:15

and James Ancho being at the barriers

39:17

and behind him, Mason Greenwood is waiting

39:20

in his car. They've got to be

39:22

very, very quick in making

39:24

those calls. And with other players who have

39:26

resale value, and their options won't be taken

39:28

up to sign them, I don't think Hannibal

39:31

Mezbri is going to be signed permanently by

39:33

Sevilla the way it's going for him. He's

39:35

only made one La Liga start. Alvaro

39:38

Fernandez has been unused the

39:41

last few games, and that's

39:43

only going to become a permanent deal if

39:45

he plays a certain number of games. So

39:47

that's already a bit of a telltale sign.

39:49

But there was obviously resale value in those

39:51

two players. There is resale value in

39:54

Facundo Polistri as well. I

39:57

suppose there is a little bit of resale value in

39:59

Donny van der Beek. might be equivalent to the

40:01

cost of again a meal

40:03

deal, but he's

40:05

someone who is small

40:08

fry really, like you can keep him

40:11

around the place, don't send him on

40:13

the pre-season tour, but you've got

40:16

to find a buyer for him, he's got to

40:18

go. I mean Mason Greenwood is out of contract

40:20

next year as well, so the decision

40:22

has to be made this summer. There's not

40:24

going to be a scenario where United have

40:26

him hanging around the place until the January

40:28

entrance window and then they decide to get

40:30

him off the books. It

40:33

has to be this summer and they can't

40:36

get that wrong. They got it

40:38

right eventually after going about it

40:40

in the wrong way last summer

40:43

and I understand why Ratcliffe is

40:45

saying we need to make a fresh decision

40:49

because it's new decision makers who

40:52

are calling the shots, but

40:54

really do INEOS want or need

40:56

the baggage or the outcry of

40:59

Mason Greenwood potentially playing for Manchester

41:01

United again. Everyone knows the answer,

41:03

no they don't. Yes,

41:05

absolutely. It's going to be a complex issue that

41:07

INEOS are going to have to try and solve

41:09

as quickly as possible as you say Samuel. Donny

41:12

van der Beek is another good point to make

41:14

and I actually wrote about him yesterday on Tuesday

41:16

in the sense that United obviously

41:19

have the option to turn that loan deal into a permanent

41:21

one. It already looks highly unlikely

41:23

with the limited number of games he's had for

41:26

Frank at this moment in time.

41:28

The biggest challenge for United could be actually

41:30

finding a buyer for him because he's regressed

41:32

so much since he joined United from Ajax

41:34

nearly four years ago. This is

41:36

going to represent a big challenge just to find a buyer for

41:38

him, isn't it? Because they're not going to be queuing up around

41:40

the block to take him off United's hands. No,

41:44

and I have half joked about

41:46

it that Ajax, so United, won

41:48

after getting all that money for

41:51

Anthony. It's high time

41:53

that United go back to them and say, look,

41:55

could you take this chap off

41:57

our hands please? And I actually think that

41:59

would... Su Van Der Beek from

42:02

a lifestyle perspective and a playing perspective

42:04

in that he's not been in the

42:07

Netherlands squad since he had to withdraw

42:09

from the last Euros through injury. He

42:12

didn't get a look in whatsoever under Louis

42:14

van Gogh, he isn't getting a

42:16

look in whatsoever under Ronald Cooman, he will not be

42:18

at the Euros in the summer. So if he

42:21

wants to revive his international career, going

42:24

back to the Netherlands playing for the

42:26

biggest club in the Netherlands would be logical, but

42:28

Ajax have been in a real

42:31

state of disarray pretty much since 10 hard

42:33

left it feels like. It

42:38

may not appeal, but he doesn't

42:41

appeal to many clubs either and

42:43

there has to be a reality

42:45

there that his stock is

42:47

so low that going

42:50

to the biggest club in the area

42:52

Divisi where he had such an

42:55

brilliant time previously does make infinite sense. So

42:57

if you're if you're Matt Hargreaves, you should

43:00

be getting on the blow to Ajax and

43:02

trying to sell them Van Der Beek even

43:04

if it is for a

43:06

very you know a knockdown fee. I

43:09

think it was 35 million rise into 40 million

43:11

when United did that deal in

43:14

2020. The loss

43:16

would be considerable, but they've

43:18

got to get him out because he's not going to play

43:20

for United again, he's not good enough to play for United.

43:23

And so that's just an example of how proactive

43:26

they have to be and how

43:28

proactive they can be in offloading

43:31

a number of players. I think

43:34

it's certain players futures are

43:36

a lot clearer. Having

43:38

done that piece a few weeks

43:41

ago on how you're looking at

43:43

about 21 senior players facing uncertainty

43:45

entering the summer, you

43:47

look at Harry Maguire and the character

43:50

he's shown this season and the

43:52

injuries to the other centre halves and two

43:54

of them being out of contract and breaking

43:56

down recently and being referred to as old

43:58

soldiers by the way. Eric Teneharg and

44:01

Victor Lindelof is out of contract next

44:03

year, you look at

44:05

Harry Mcguine, you say he's probably,

44:07

he's got to stay now by virtue

44:09

of that and also he's done well

44:11

for himself this season, particularly given the

44:14

starting point. But then next year, when

44:17

I think his contract

44:20

technically expires next year, but there's the plus one option,

44:22

so if you trigger the plus one and

44:25

then you think well, he's on trial next season,

44:27

if he has a brilliant season, maybe give him

44:29

a two year deal, if

44:31

not then cash

44:33

in. But things

44:36

can change so quickly in football, as I said in

44:42

regards to that piece, when I did it at the time, I

44:44

think he was injured and

44:46

of course a player stopped when they're injured, there

44:48

is always bound to be a bit more uncertainty,

44:50

especially if you're a player who the

44:53

club accepted an offer for in the summer and

44:56

coming up to the Euros, his record

44:58

in big tournaments is excellent, he

45:00

was probably the best centre half, not probably, he was

45:02

the best centre half at the Euros in 2021, if

45:07

his resale value is high after the Euros and

45:09

if there's a brilliant,

45:11

an acceptable offer that comes in, can

45:14

you say no to that? I don't

45:16

think that United would be able

45:18

to. So there are opportunities

45:21

galore in that squad for getting

45:23

good money and that's without naming

45:25

some of the high profile ones,

45:27

Rashford and McTominay, two

45:30

players who would represent a complete

45:32

profit under the PSR regulations as

45:34

well because they're academy players and

45:38

given the profile of those two players, United

45:41

should be, if they want to sell them,

45:43

United should be looking to get more than

45:45

£100 million for those two. Yeah,

45:48

very intriguing indeed, it's going to be an

45:50

interesting summer for sure but that didn't really

45:53

close to part two of the Manchester is Red

45:55

podcast, we'll be back in part three to very

45:57

briefly look at matters on the pitch and a

45:59

big few games. coming up for United. Welcome

46:16

back to the third and final part of this

46:18

episode of the Manchester is Red podcast. Samuel

46:21

we've had a long discussion about matters off

46:23

the pitch we're going to quickly touch on

46:25

matters on the pitch and what's coming up

46:27

for United. Obviously yourself and Stephen recorded the

46:29

podcast on Monday looking back on the the

46:31

Liverpool draw on on Sunday and YouTube course

46:33

as everybody else has discussed the chaotic style

46:36

and United's way of playing at the minute

46:38

we all know what's happening there but United

46:40

ultimately now we've obviously been hoping and

46:42

willing them on to hopefully get into

46:45

those Champions League places it is looking

46:47

increasingly unlike now 11 points behind both Spurs

46:49

and Villa with just seven games left to

46:52

go. United now looking in that

46:54

rear-view mirror opposed to in front of them because Newcastle

46:56

and West Ham are creeping up and United

46:58

ultimately they're not even assured of Europa

47:00

League football yet perhaps even Europa Conference

47:02

League so United need a big

47:04

finish here but you look at their next three

47:06

league games either side of the FA Cup so

47:08

far with Coventry City, Bournemouth away

47:10

and then back-to-back cone games with Sheffield United and

47:13

Burnley it's got to be nine

47:15

points hasn't it? It really has to be. It

47:18

has to be the aim unfortunately for them they've

47:20

only won one of their last six in the

47:23

Premier League and if you're an

47:25

extremely optimistic United fan you'd look

47:27

at Bournemouth away with

47:30

Villa playing against Arsenal on

47:33

Sunday and then United ending the month

47:35

with two home games against

47:37

the the two worst teams in the

47:39

league and suddenly you think if

47:41

they take nine points out of nine there maybe

47:45

maybe there's an outside chance that they can

47:47

still sneak in probably by

47:50

finishing fifth but very

47:52

few people have faith in this team to do

47:54

that and that's even taken into

47:57

account how how much Villa

47:59

have been wobbling in recent months, probably

48:01

going back to the Boxing Day comeback

48:05

that United had against them. I

48:07

wasn't particularly impressed with Villa at all that evening.

48:10

I've been impressed with Villa under Unai

48:12

Emery, but they are not only walking

48:14

the touch upon it at the weekend,

48:16

how they struggle with

48:18

a big game mentality. And that's

48:20

because they're not really accustomed to

48:22

big games because they've been, they

48:25

were only promoted back to the

48:27

Premier League in 2019. They survived

48:29

by the skin of their teeth

48:31

in the first season. They

48:34

were plowing through a tree call under

48:36

Dean Smith and Steven Gerrard,

48:38

and then they got Emery and he has

48:41

elevated them to heights

48:43

that they probably didn't anticipate they

48:45

would reach this season. And the

48:48

Champions League is within sight, but they

48:51

are wobbling. And

48:53

the Tottenham, everyone knows how often and

48:56

how prone they are to bottling it, but

48:58

there's a reason why they're fourth. And

49:01

there's a reason why they're as far ahead of

49:03

United as they are because United also, they

49:06

don't have the right mentality.

49:09

That's been clear all season. The evidence

49:11

this season would suggest they do not have it

49:13

in them to finish fifth. And

49:15

as far as Europa competition, as you

49:18

said, George, it is

49:20

a question I still think as to which

49:22

Europa competition there will be in next season. And

49:25

that rescheduled game against Newcastle, Old Trafford,

49:27

I think will probably be the penultimate,

49:29

their penultimate league fixture of the season.

49:31

It will probably be the final midweek

49:33

of the season because the

49:36

Premier League will absolutely want that for

49:38

television and they won't want to

49:40

hit clashing with the Champions

49:42

League and the European midweeks. So

49:45

it's likely to be that final midweek

49:47

of the season as the Chelsea home

49:49

game was for United last season, which

49:51

was rearranged after they reached the

49:53

FA Cup semi-finals. And that game,

49:55

it could be a shootout to see who's

49:57

in the conference league and who's in the

49:59

Europa League next season. and that said if

50:01

United are in the FA Cup final

50:04

and if they win the FA Cup

50:06

I think that triggers Europa League competition

50:08

so it might go down to the

50:11

data Wembley should they get past Coventry. Absolutely

50:14

and just looking at the data now which is

50:17

interesting actually and I wasn't aware it was quite

50:19

so poor as this. United more than likely going

50:21

to have to win every remaining game if they

50:23

are going to stand any chance of achieving one

50:25

of those two Champions League spots but their longest

50:27

winning run this season in the league is four

50:29

games their longest unbeaten run in the league is

50:31

only five games it's going to

50:33

be a big tall order and Samuel you quite rightly

50:36

mentioned that the character and the mentality of this team

50:38

it's unlikely that it's got it in it

50:40

to go and win seven Premier League games in a row bearing

50:42

in mind they've got to face Arsenal still they've got to play

50:44

Newcastle as you say and they've got an

50:46

FA Cup so final sandwiched in it it's

50:49

going to take a hell of a lot and

50:51

it is increasingly unlikely. And

50:53

they're playing away to three teams who

50:55

have won Old Trafford this season Bournemouth,

50:58

Palace and Brighton Bournemouth

51:00

were excellent at Old Trafford in

51:02

December I was really impressed by

51:05

them their decision in the summer

51:07

to sack Gary O'Neill I don't think many people

51:09

agreed with it but Iraiola's come in and

51:12

it's certainly overseeing

51:14

excellent work I thought Gary O'Neill was probably the

51:17

manager of the season last season given the job

51:19

he did after they started

51:21

the season the Scott part occurred and they just seemed

51:23

doomed and bound

51:25

for the championship to keep them

51:27

up was a magnificent

51:30

effort and he's doing a really good job

51:32

at Wolves now as well but

51:34

I thought Bournemouth in Old

51:36

Trafford in December were excellent possibly the

51:38

best opposition team at Old Trafford this

51:40

season and I know United were really

51:42

bad that day but seeing

51:45

Bournemouth play the way they did and I

51:47

think it was their second goal they scored it

51:49

was so superbly worked everyone hitting their cues they've

51:51

got some good players as we all know Dominic

51:54

Solanke will not be at the Euros but

51:57

he's having the season of his life to the point

51:59

where but people are looking at him thinking, well, in

52:03

another lifetime, he might have been, you know,

52:05

back in the days when United could go

52:08

down the ladder

52:10

and take the best player off those

52:13

clubs in the Premier League. They'd be doing that with

52:16

Bournemouth and Solanke as they did

52:18

with, for example, Luis Aja from Fulham in

52:20

2004. It doesn't

52:22

quite work out like that anymore now. So

52:26

that game this weekend, it's

52:28

far from a fault-gone conclusion that United

52:30

will win that. They eked

52:33

out a 1-0 win there

52:35

last season in May, having

52:38

lost a couple of games before it. So

52:42

if they win their final seven games,

52:44

I think most people will be pretty

52:46

shocked by that because I'm not surprised

52:48

whatsoever when you trust out those

52:51

stats there about the longest winning

52:53

run and longest unbeaten run in

52:56

the Premier League. It's just not good enough

52:58

for a team that wants to finish in

53:00

the top four. And at

53:03

the start of the season, most people had United

53:05

down to finish in the top four. I

53:08

think Liverpool, Arsenal and City

53:10

were givens. And

53:12

Tottenham had only disappointed a new

53:14

coach. Chelsea had

53:17

a disappointment, a new coach, and was still

53:19

clearly quite dysfunctional. Nobody

53:23

really saw Villaers being contenders. I think

53:25

they were dark horses at best. So

53:28

to not finishing the top four, it will be

53:30

a big failure. I still think, I said it

53:32

on Monday, I do think the league season, it

53:35

already feels like a bit of a write-off. And I think

53:37

some of the fans feel that way as well during the

53:39

Liverpool game, they were singing about going

53:41

to Wembley and the FA Cup. And that's what

53:43

they've got to look forward to now. And they've

53:46

got that day next week against commentary and hopefully

53:48

they'll be back there next

53:51

month for another FA Cup final. Yeah,

53:53

fingers crossed. It certainly applies plenty of pressure to

53:55

that game with the league position, as you say.

53:58

But just lastly, Samuel, to wrap things up. It's

54:00

come out in the last couple of days that

54:03

there is apparently an extra loophole where United could

54:05

get into the Champions League via finishing in sixth

54:07

spot, but that would require West Ham to finish

54:09

fifth. Bear

54:11

in mind they're 12 points behind, Villa and Spurs at the

54:13

minute, and have to win the Europa League as well. Bear

54:15

in mind they're going to play by a Labour cousin this

54:17

week. It's highly unlikely, so

54:20

we can probably extinguish that hope that United might

54:22

have had. So there's a hell of a lot

54:24

to fall into place for that one. You've

54:27

told me something I didn't know there, but it's

54:30

amusing nonetheless. Yeah, it would

54:32

certainly need a lot to go United's favour, but

54:34

ultimately United shouldn't be relying on favour, should they,

54:36

in this position, the amount of money that is

54:38

spent, the quality that they have. And of course,

54:40

we've all done it to death about

54:42

the style of play and the injuries and things like

54:44

that, but ultimately United, with the quality they've had, albeit

54:47

not all at the same time this season because of

54:49

the injuries, they should have had enough to

54:51

be well within touching distance at the very least at the top

54:53

four at this stage of the season. Yes,

54:56

they've gone backwards this

54:59

season. There's no denying

55:01

it, and that's why the

55:03

manager's future is in the balance,

55:05

and it's why the result

55:07

of the weekend had some

55:11

laudable characteristics, there was some resilience about

55:13

them, but it wasn't a good

55:15

result. It was a worse result for Liverpool, of

55:18

course, given that they

55:20

could have gone top and they had 15 shots

55:22

to none in the first half, and they

55:25

repeated mistakes that they made against United in the

55:27

Cup game. But

55:31

it wasn't like the draw that United had against

55:33

Liverpool in February 2019, which contributed

55:38

heavily towards Liverpool not winning the

55:40

title that season. United were

55:43

on an upward curve at that point. They

55:45

did have momentum. They were doing

55:47

well under Solskjaer, and there was a feel-good factor

55:49

around the place. That was not the

55:52

case, and it hasn't been the case

55:54

for most of the season, unfortunately. I

55:56

think the killer was that Fulham game.

56:00

on paper that was their easiest game in

56:02

February. They'd won all their games before

56:04

that and to have lost

56:07

as decent a team as Fulham are but

56:09

to have lost to a team that I

56:12

mean their way following didn't even sell

56:14

all their tickets that day. You're at

56:16

home having won all their games in

56:19

the month to

56:21

perform that badly. That was

56:23

the day that it was almost the

56:26

defining moment of United's league season that

56:28

they somehow lost that game. They've

56:30

had far more memorable defeats this

56:32

season beyond that Fulham one and

56:35

more chaotic defeats than the Fulham

56:37

one but that was

56:40

a setback that I don't I just don't see them

56:42

recovering from as far as the league is concerned. Yeah

56:45

there's certainly been too many home defeats certainly within

56:47

that similar bracket such as losing to Crystal Palace,

56:50

Bournemouth as you mentioned were very very good on

56:52

the day in December but that Fulham defeat was

56:54

particularly damaging you're quite right but that does bring

56:56

an end to this episode of the Manchester is

56:58

Red podcast. A big thank you to Samuel for

57:01

joining me today. As always if you've enjoyed listening

57:03

to this episode and you'd like to watch it

57:05

as well we are on YouTube of course just

57:07

search Manchester is Red and you could subscribe to

57:10

the channel. We'll be back again later in the

57:12

week on Friday to look ahead to Saturday's trip

57:14

to Bournemouth so do rejoin us then for that

57:16

one but until then have a great week and we'll catch

57:18

you again very very soon. you