0:06

Hello and welcome to the Manchester Is

0:08

Red podcast. My name is Stephen Reelston and

0:10

I'm recording this episode on the very wet

0:12

Wednesday afternoon here in Manchester and I'm joined

0:14

by my colleague Samuel Lucas. Samuel, how are

0:17

you? I'm not

0:19

bad, not bad, thank you very much, yourself. Yeah, I mean,

0:21

apart from the weather, is it chucking it down where you

0:23

are? It is,

0:25

of course, yes. You've just

0:27

been at the press conference, of course. United have

0:29

a game against Chelsea tomorrow evening. If

0:32

I was married Samuel, I'd probably say I'm seeing you

0:34

more than my wife at the moment, but I'm not.

0:36

So I'll not make that comment, but we are seeing

0:38

a lot of each other. We're travelling down to Stamford

0:40

Bridge tomorrow afternoon, another long journey. So we'll look ahead

0:43

to that game a bit later in the podcast, but

0:45

to begin with, we'll just have a little bit of

0:47

housekeeping because there has been a few advancements. So

0:50

United obviously approached Southampton for Jason

0:52

Williks for the technical director. Will

0:56

Cox. Jason Will Cox. Will

0:58

Cox. I mean, we'll not see who

1:00

I was watching last night, which is influenced

1:03

by pronunciation there. But would you like to expand

1:05

on that line to start the podcast, Samuel? I

1:08

don't think Magtistrout will be signing any of

1:10

the Willard brothers having had one of them,

1:12

their academy a few years ago. But

1:15

that emerged, what, Easter

1:18

Monday evening, I think, wasn't it? There

1:20

had been an official approach. It emerged

1:23

during Southampton's game at Ipswich

1:25

Town, which ended in, I

1:28

mean, I tuned in for the second half of it, which

1:30

I was quite glad about, given that it was quite the

1:32

exciting finale with Kieran

1:35

McKenna and Lee Grant, Ipswich getting

1:37

a 97th minute winner.

1:39

Are they still top of the championship? I think

1:41

they're having a hell of a season. But

1:44

getting onto Southampton, who are

1:46

or were competing for one

1:48

of those automatic places, it was

1:50

reported back in February that United

1:54

Want, Jason Will Cox, as

1:57

their technical director on the recommendation of the

1:59

Games. Marvarada, who of course is

2:02

familiar with him, having worked

2:04

with him at Manchester City where Wilcox

2:07

was the director of the academy

2:10

before he moved to Southampton in

2:12

the summer to become their director of football.

2:15

He still is at Southampton. I don't think

2:17

he'll be at Southampton for much longer. United

2:19

have offered a

2:21

compensation package equivalent

2:23

of one year's salary, which apparently is

2:25

a money of Wilcox's salary,

2:27

which is roughly around £500,000 to

2:30

Hunter want more. Eventually,

2:35

there will be a resolution

2:39

as there will be, no doubt,

2:41

with Dan Ashworth, who was already

2:43

on gardening leave. I think with

2:45

Wilcox, he could feasibly

2:48

start before Ashworth. Then

2:51

the next question is, what's

2:53

his role specifically going to

2:55

consist of? He's really

2:58

kind of gone to a more senior role

3:00

at Southampton as the director of football. He

3:02

had a huge say in the

3:06

choice of Russell Martin as manager last

3:08

year at City. He was, his

3:11

niche was obviously in the academy and that

3:14

was very successful given that

3:16

City has been very good

3:18

at youth level for a number of years. The

3:21

most impressive at the late 1960s

3:23

academy has been the cash

3:26

cowards who come and the remarkable teams

3:28

they've generated for players who were never

3:31

going to get anywhere near the first team, never

3:33

got anywhere near the first team. In the case

3:35

of James

3:37

Troffs, who had

3:39

never even played in the championship, they still

3:41

managed to sustain a £20

3:44

million in Burnley in

3:46

the summer. With

3:49

the academy, you have to use it in different ways.

3:53

The main priority is to service the

3:55

first team that's five players who are

3:58

going to make that leap. from

4:01

the academy to senior

4:03

side and it's not just themselves. It's

4:06

only always going to be a small percentage

4:08

to do that because that's just the way

4:11

it works. And football for United are

4:13

quite rightly renowned for the young players

4:15

they produce. But one

4:18

of the big sticking parts of the academy is that it has

4:20

not been a cash cow. United

4:22

Academy, they've been back to

4:25

Matt Busby's era, has

4:27

produced brilliant players. Which is very good

4:29

players for other clubs as well over

4:31

the years. But they always

4:34

struggle to get a good piece of

4:36

it. And certainly in this era of

4:38

profitability rules and financial fair play, it

4:40

is very much in their interest to

4:43

start getting their money as well for

4:45

players who could or

4:48

should go on and have good careers

4:51

elsewhere. And

4:53

we're in an ambitious position with Ted and Menge

4:55

that he had two or three

4:57

really bad injuries that were set in back.

5:00

He came to the point where he had to go. But

5:03

now, where he's a Premier League regular

5:05

at Ludes and he's an

5:07

England number 21 international, his valuation, four-part

5:09

figure, he's got to be 10 million

5:12

pounds, just for those two reasons. United

5:14

gave him away at the crisps

5:18

and the twigs or already nil or whatever

5:20

it was with minimal fee. We

5:22

know when it's not a lot of money

5:25

because United is trying to declare

5:27

how much money the buying club

5:29

has paid for it. And I'm

5:31

not surprised that Menge has actually done as well as

5:33

we have at Ludes because he did have very

5:36

good potential in the United. You see, and

5:38

he was involved and around the first team

5:41

midway through 2020. And

5:44

he trained a lot with them. He

5:47

had good loans, good clubs and

5:49

the championship. And it's

5:51

just a shame that he had two

5:53

or three really bad injuries, just in

5:55

fact he got injured during the winter

5:58

training. And

6:01

of course, your resale value is going

6:03

to plummet, but now United look

6:05

like mugs because he's played as regularly

6:08

as he has at Luton. And

6:11

he's got anything done to 21 squad. I

6:13

don't think many people would have foreseen that. And

6:16

people at United will rightly be

6:18

proud of how well Mengy has done so

6:20

quickly after leaving the club. He's a

6:22

boy at United Bank, born in Manchester.

6:24

He is a great story. But

6:29

the new power brokers will also rightly

6:31

have to ask the question, why did

6:33

you give them away for such a

6:36

brutal fee? And whatever Luton paid for

6:38

him, it's been an absolute bargain. Even

6:41

with James Garner when he led. Since

6:44

United get their money, their money's

6:46

worth of players. It was one of the

6:48

strongest players in

6:50

the season that they got the most back to the

6:53

Premier League, who is a

6:55

very accomplished player for Everton now,

6:57

is clearly Premier League quality. And

6:59

there were conflicting fees reported on

7:02

that as well from both sides when he

7:04

did join the deadline day. But the fact

7:07

he left on deadline day also highlighted the

7:09

problem. And OK, Tenard wanted to have a

7:11

look at him and then

7:13

judge. But the way it

7:15

was handled was pretty badly

7:17

handled. And I remember being told at

7:19

the time that United

7:22

put the word out that they were

7:24

looking for players before they'd actually told the players

7:26

that he's going to be available to sell.

7:29

And certainly at the start of that summer, I don't think

7:31

there were very many United fans who thought that

7:33

he would be leaving because he stopped as high,

7:35

he'd done really in the championship. And they were

7:37

hoping to see him start the

7:40

United. And

7:42

I think that if a player is

7:44

going to be served plus to requirements,

7:46

you've got to be served to start

7:48

the summer. And that's probably the case

7:50

with United in two weeks, not just

7:52

with the academy players. And there's another

7:54

example, Jesse Lingard in 2021, it's kind

7:57

of issued there in terms of an

7:59

academy player. because he'd been in this university

8:02

for an interesting squad for six

8:05

hundred years. But there

8:07

was a willing buyer in West Ham who had him

8:10

on loan. They set money aside

8:12

to find Justin Ingalls and then you've got

8:15

the indecisiveness of Ollie Donis, oh he looks

8:17

quite good, do I want to speak, do

8:19

I want to tell him they don't sell

8:21

him, then they've never played him and then

8:23

they miss out on the victory and he's

8:25

released in the summer. So they can't go

8:27

down that route again. They've got to, they

8:29

have got to have an overhaul of that

8:31

department just in terms of treating the

8:34

academy as a cash

8:36

cow and obviously Wilcox is experienced from

8:38

that, from his time at City. In

8:41

terms of what actually happens with Darren Fletcher then Samuel,

8:43

I mean he is the current technical director, he was

8:45

the first ever technical director that was appointed at the

8:48

club along with Joanne Murtagh was appointed as

8:50

football director in 2021, the March of that year. What

8:54

do you think happens to him because he's had a bit of a

8:56

unique role really, as you've

8:58

said in the previous podcast, it was clarity brought his role a

9:00

bit, I can't make a year

9:02

into it, maybe 80 months into it because I

9:04

don't think everyone knew what he did, he was

9:06

present in some training sessions on match days as

9:08

well and obviously recently he's kind of been the

9:10

link between the academy, how many picks out players

9:12

from youth sessions and kind of promotes them to

9:14

the first team and he's kind of that conduit

9:16

between Eric his

9:27

role is still unconventional

9:29

for a technical director, he is still

9:31

on the training pitch but

9:33

there is value in terms of him

9:36

having that insight into which players in

9:39

the academy would be

9:41

suitable for a training session when

9:43

united short of numbers or there's

9:45

an injury in a particular position

9:47

who from the academy would you

9:49

bring over and he has that

9:51

expertise because he is that conduit

9:53

between the first team hub and

9:55

the academy as well. If

10:00

a new technical director is coming in, which is probably

10:03

going to be the case with Will Cox, Fletcher's

10:06

role probably has to change. Would he

10:08

want to stay on? His two lads

10:10

are there now, Jack and Tyler, they're

10:12

in the academy. Would he want some

10:14

distance from that? That was

10:16

a conversation he had with them as well before

10:19

they made the move over from City because I

10:21

think you have to, it's just logical,

10:24

good, parenting advice. You have to

10:27

make your children aware

10:30

of this word nepotism in case they haven't

10:32

heard it already and that there will be

10:34

at some point down

10:36

line possibly accusations made. Although in Jack

10:38

Fletcher's case, he's done very well this

10:41

season. Tyler Fletcher, I assume has had

10:44

a pretty significant injury because

10:46

he has barely featured this season.

10:48

I think

10:50

I wrote something about Fletcher's role maybe a

10:52

month or two ago in that it

10:55

was, there is some uncertainty there, but there's a

10:57

lot of uncertainty over the futures of many

11:01

staff members at United, many players at United

11:03

as well. I think with

11:06

regards to the academy and Will

11:09

Cox's possible input there, Nick

11:12

Cox has to stay. I don't

11:14

think of all the

11:16

people that he'd look at and think, yeah,

11:19

he's expendable or he has to go. Nick

11:21

Cox has done a brilliant job at the

11:23

academy and he's overseen that for

11:25

nearly five years now. It's just

11:28

nobody important. He's

11:31

overseen that for five years now and you just

11:33

look at the success they had at that time.

11:36

During that time they've got the youth cup semi-final,

11:38

they've won the youth cup, they've produced brilliant

11:41

players for the first team in Guarnaccio

11:43

and Coby Mayenu that have been more

11:45

debutantes, there have been some

11:47

success stories elsewhere. As I mentioned with

11:49

Ted and Lingy going

11:52

salute. There's a

11:54

lot of players who are having reasonable

11:56

careers as well, I mean Charlie Savage

11:58

as well as international. We were

12:00

just talking about that in the car last week with Samuel

12:03

and Rich accused me of sounding like Nick Cox when I

12:05

said the percentage of players

12:07

the United's Academy actually produces that go on to

12:09

have wonderful careers in the Football League and I

12:11

think wonderful they might not be at the top

12:14

level or what people may consider an elite level

12:16

but it's still a fantastic achievement to play in

12:18

the Championship League one. You look at Will Fish

12:20

for example recently why interviewed started every game this

12:22

season for Hibernian in Scotland so.

12:24

And has he? That's not gone live

12:27

yet has it? Two weeks ago Samuel

12:29

so you couldn't you slack it

12:31

out. Did you say Will Fish? Yeah Will Fish.

12:33

Or have I just? Will Fish. Well I apologise

12:35

I missed that I will absolutely have to I

12:37

was off that two weeks ago. You were you

12:40

were on holiday so I'll let you go. He's

12:42

an example isn't it and there's obviously the Championship interest

12:44

in him at the moment but a

12:47

lot of players go on to have great careers regardless of

12:49

whether that is in United's first team or not. It

12:53

is and that's

12:55

not going to deter them from that

12:58

duty of care. One of the best things they did

13:00

during the pandemic in 2020 sorry

13:03

was that of course there was

13:05

a release list of players but

13:07

those players were invited back to

13:09

Carrington to use the facilities to

13:11

continue training and United

13:14

always try and help them find clubs as well

13:16

even though these players I

13:21

mean other clubs another several other

13:23

clubs would just cut their losses and let that

13:25

be that shake hands and off you go but

13:27

United do continue without duty of care and

13:29

I thought that was a really really

13:31

good gesture particularly how difficult that time was

13:33

for everybody but if you're if you're out

13:36

of employment whether you're a footballer or whether

13:38

you're in another another

13:41

vocation another another industry it's not going

13:43

to be pleasant so to have had

13:45

that to fall back on would

13:48

have been very reassuring for those those young

13:50

players and some of those players released at

13:52

the time have gone on to do well

13:54

I mean largely Ramazan he's having a pretty

13:57

good career in in Spain I think.

14:00

Peter and Mitchell got a winner for Exeter

14:02

in the early in the season in the

14:04

League Cup. It might have been against Luton,

14:06

in fact. So these

14:08

players are doing quite well for themselves by

14:10

and large. Of course, some just fall

14:13

off the face of the earth. But

14:15

earlier this season, it was

14:17

Tyrone who went to the... He

14:20

was invited down when they had

14:22

this day there where Academy alumni

14:24

were coming back to Carrington and using the

14:26

facilities. And some of them spoke because they

14:29

didn't have clubs at the time for various

14:31

reasons. I think Rashawn Williams was one of

14:33

those players. And of course he moved

14:36

to a club. Was it Laam or Laan?

14:39

Apologies for the pronunciation to any Irish

14:41

listeners, but he's of course gone to

14:43

Belfast, as everyone knows. Tom

14:46

Thorpe, I don't think has got

14:48

a club at the moment. And

14:50

there are other players who unfortunately,

14:53

for whatever reason, they've been

14:55

unattached. They've been in

14:57

limbo for a long, long time. And

14:59

United still stay in touch with them. I think Dion

15:02

McGee might have been one who... I

15:04

don't think he's had a club in maybe three years, but

15:06

he was due to be at Carrington

15:09

that day earlier in the season. So there's

15:12

still a line of dialogue there, which I think is...

15:15

Again, it's very commendable of United that

15:19

as much as we

15:21

all want to see lots of players in

15:24

the academy, from

15:26

the academy and the first team. I

15:28

think this is a possible, possibly

15:30

an important message. No, it isn't.

15:33

I'd have to say a message

15:35

after that. Yes. Yeah,

15:38

the WhatsApp group that we're both in,

15:40

normally when that person messages it, oh,

15:42

we've got to drop everything and do a

15:44

story. But it was the absolute opposite of

15:47

this post. It was very,

15:49

very different. So yeah, go

15:51

back to your point. I

15:53

think it's good what United do.

15:55

I think Litcocks has cultivated that

15:57

culture and... He

16:00

says as well as he's a spinach

16:02

united sit for about eight years now

16:04

think it is, haven't been shuffled united

16:06

at them and wolf it before in

16:08

his career so I would. I'd absolutely

16:11

be keeping him on and.not just because

16:13

a skit be a can talk until

16:15

the cows come home when when we

16:17

do have a son that has. Proven

16:20

on the precision in some it was announcement

16:23

today and see what's going on Wednesday

16:25

they in a puppy in the Region side

16:27

Rosenberg on July sixteenth will be the

16:29

first preseason this summer of us between As

16:31

Embers Well play ranges and in a

16:33

flight United States again this as the did

16:35

last summer and it's a it's an

16:37

interest in schedule because the thing last season's

16:40

unless I'm a schedule was scrutinized a

16:42

little bit because if the load of the

16:44

put on the players in of she

16:46

was him of injuries the season three a

16:48

contributing factor because we do understand. The has

16:50

been some concerns and not dressing room over the

16:53

and training and and other be the preseason schedule

16:55

to the fact that. It

16:58

does and I do it man. Dangerous

17:00

Rick Pressing on not in the third

17:03

try to keep too many territories. Content.

17:06

And instead to do that the commercial

17:08

side is almost over sad when football

17:10

side of it. I don't think I

17:13

need to be going sir. Are

17:16

Spaces Made? Literally went to four

17:18

different countries that some matches

17:20

and that with without him, but

17:23

that's not exactly a track. For.

17:26

The know why game that's become a

17:28

pattern. Six years of pre season say

17:30

that played one baron into and seventeen

17:33

arena clearly didn't fancy. The next year's

17:35

i skipped a and buy you a

17:37

pin friendly was was immunity against by

17:39

and which he thing mass as well.

17:42

Worth. Well worth your

17:44

while. Give me a coming up against us.

17:46

The good side and done at the Allianz

17:48

Arena. But. Since have

17:50

since college and the cells goes nine

17:53

money chest or things that they them

17:55

they tots back in said the said

17:57

Norwegian fan base and tried to maximum.

18:00

Is. It when the. Despite

18:02

keen interest the died of heart but

18:04

emphasising a lovely managing my Darjeeling I

18:06

have it. Scanned. Majors a whole

18:08

those I always has been. No yeah course

18:10

he always has been A they used to

18:12

go to as Scandinavia quite often than in

18:14

the nineties and the two thousands that they.

18:17

Normally. They woods and invariably

18:19

that preseason tools would be and

18:21

in Scandinavia and then it starts.

18:23

It says the yeah that they

18:25

started to explore the Asian market

18:28

and nights tool in Asia and

18:30

then they started in the United

18:32

States. The mad at all there

18:34

in two thousand and three and.

18:37

The. From that point onwards it was

18:39

always America or A shown In recent

18:41

years has been Australia as well. Because.

18:45

They they went there and in twenty nineteen

18:47

and then they went back and and twenty

18:49

twos. Well. But the

18:51

problem I have with Scandinavia in terms

18:54

of touring that isn't that sad here

18:56

is is just a big enough see

18:58

no can be selling enough tickets and

19:00

of course. You. A Pin seems,

19:02

don't flock that. Your pin seems all flocking

19:05

to America or Asia because you can play

19:07

and pick a side. Him she can make

19:09

more money out of it and I don't

19:11

blame me. And I saw that there has

19:13

to be. The. They

19:15

said need to generate some. Commercial.

19:17

Revenue every now and there's nothing wrong

19:20

with that. Are it's main, it's ensure

19:22

that the football is prioritize the problem.

19:24

Last year. Was. That they

19:26

started that us toll on the east coast

19:29

ninja on the west coast which is illogical.

19:31

just kind of the time zone difference normally

19:33

he saw on the west coast new World

19:35

to wipe. Ah, so you're easing and League

19:38

eighteen in the jet lag the the place

19:40

of Sir. I'm

19:43

sure that skeptics out there was have a why did

19:45

I need to go to America? Why they need go

19:47

to my Asia. Typically,

19:49

they don't. Bother. you

19:51

are generating revenue for those trips

19:53

and they're doing things around those

19:56

games and from from our perspective

19:58

going on those tools we see

20:00

people, staff members from Manchester United

20:02

on those tours that we never

20:04

see again throughout the whole season

20:06

because that's the importance of the

20:08

pre-season tours to the club. There

20:11

are lots of opportunities and I don't

20:14

think it's a bad thing whatsoever that they're

20:16

taking their

20:18

tour in territories and putting on

20:20

games for supporters who might not

20:22

otherwise be able to see

20:25

Manchester United and there's merit in

20:27

that. But the whole

20:29

thing about going to Norway every

20:32

year… A bit too much

20:34

of the player Samuel or the squad again

20:36

after seeing such injury problems this

20:38

season. You look at the schedule… It's

20:41

a short tour. West Coast, East Coast, it's five

20:43

games in the space of two and a half

20:45

weeks and it begins three days after Euro 2024

20:47

as well. I

20:51

think the Norway friendly is the day

20:54

after the Euro's final. That

20:57

will be young squad to be very generous. It

20:59

will, yeah. That will pick

21:02

people in Norway. They've got to be braced for… I suppose

21:07

a slightly similar team to the one that

21:09

turned up in Oslo last year because there

21:11

were a lot of players still taking time

21:13

off after playing in international

21:15

games in the summer and

21:17

other various commitments. In

21:20

terms of that friendly, if you're a Norwegian

21:22

fan and you want to get a

21:24

ticket for that game, you've got to be

21:27

braced for quite a depleted team. Anana

21:29

will be in it because there aren't any…

21:32

The last corners has come and gone. Mason

21:34

Mount will probably play because the chances are

21:36

he won't be in England's squad. R1 Bessaka,

21:38

if he's still a United player, could

21:41

be playing. The big

21:43

draw for that game, quite possibly, would

21:45

be the new manager, a

21:48

new manager, not the new manager if

21:50

United decided to do that.

21:54

I do question the wisdom of just going

21:57

to different countries. the

22:01

weekend of the community shield. If United

22:03

win the FA Cup and they get

22:05

to the community shield, that's their final

22:07

friendly, their final preseason game. If they

22:09

don't, the suggestion is that they will

22:11

do another two-game weekend as they have

22:14

done in the previous pre-seasons under

22:16

Ericton Harg where they'll play one game at Old

22:18

Trafford and one game elsewhere,

22:20

possibly Dublin again, which

22:23

is where they went last year, I think in

22:25

his first preseason. The first game

22:28

was in Norway and the following day they

22:30

played in Manchester against Raoul

22:41

and we had to cover that summer and

22:44

of course prompted the Ten Hogs and Mortals

22:46

to do your research advice

22:48

to Simon Peach about five days later

22:51

at Carrington. In terms

22:53

of the travelling, they

22:55

should be limiting it. I do

22:57

question the wisdom of the Norway

22:59

friendly but they have a core

23:01

fan base there and they clearly want

23:04

to keep them happy. They want to

23:06

go to different parts of Norway. I

23:09

don't think they've ever played in Trondheim maybe or

23:11

if they did last play in Trondheim it was

23:13

a very long time ago so it's

23:16

a different part of Norway that they're going

23:18

to as well and they've

23:20

done that a couple of times in recent

23:22

years since they returned to Norway in

23:25

2017 I think it was and they've been

23:27

that back there quite often when they've

23:29

had a preseason schedule apart from those

23:31

in 2020 and 2021 which were wiped

23:33

out by Covis. In the 2021 preseason

23:36

it was just it was just friendlies and England

23:38

wasn't it I think they played Derby, QPR, Brentford

23:41

and Everton it might have been. It's

23:44

a bit underwhelming that wasn't it? It's

23:47

not quite New York and Las Vegas or Melbourne and Singapore. We'll

23:56

leave it there for part one and we'll be back in a moment for part

23:58

two. Welcome

24:09

back to part two of the Manchester. It's

24:11

Red Podcast. Now, Samuelsson, more bad injury news

24:14

last night, arrived on Tuesday night. Sandro Martinez

24:16

and Victor Lindelof are set to be out

24:18

for around a month. Martinez has picked up

24:20

a calf strain in training. Lindelof picked up

24:23

a hamstring injury in that Brentford game on

24:25

Saturday night. He was limping as he walked

24:27

through the mix, so I suspect he wouldn't

24:29

be available for Chelsea. It's obviously being confirmed.

24:33

Fortunately, Samuelsson, on the flip side, Farhan,

24:35

McGuire and Jonny Evans all in training.

24:37

So that's a positive, isn't it? Going

24:39

ahead to the game against Chelsea on

24:41

Thursday. It

24:44

is. I wrote this morning that Farhan

24:46

was hopeful of being past fit and

24:48

10-hug and confirmed that

24:50

at his press conference, although they

24:52

were yet to train. So, touchwood

24:55

for United said there aren't any more

24:57

setbacks, but their training session was after

24:59

the press conference. I

25:02

would imagine they'll travel down to Chelsea tomorrow

25:05

because it's such a late

25:07

kickoff. They did that

25:09

on Saturday and they were able to have

25:11

a nap. It didn't. So,

25:16

there's every chance that the preparations

25:18

will be changed as well. But

25:21

of course, when there

25:23

are another space of injuries at United,

25:25

it's extremely topical because there have been,

25:27

I think it's now, by

25:30

spreadsheet, 53 separate cases of

25:32

injury and illness this season

25:35

that have led to

25:37

a player missing a game

25:39

or missing games, which is an

25:41

extraordinarily high number when we've just

25:43

entered April. And there is

25:45

the mitigation there, as I've spoken before,

25:47

when I had to do that nonsense

25:50

of explaining the new Champions League format last

25:52

week, that the

25:54

backlog of games since Covid is

25:57

still being felt in the, I think.

26:00

The Twenty one, twenty Two season others

26:02

I was on hold and America and

26:04

you've got England Swallows out that. England

26:06

played three games, three nations league games

26:09

and that went on in submit tude

26:11

which was just ridiculous. The nation's late

26:13

should just been scrapped the that point,

26:15

so that the summer. Last.

26:18

Season was a would be taxing season

26:20

because there was a World Cup of

26:22

senselessly held in the middle of the

26:25

census enough to hold in Qatar that

26:27

of course it was always can have

26:29

to be played in the winter and

26:31

unfortunately that will probably happen again when

26:33

the World Cup at some point is

26:35

held in Saudi Arabia. With.

26:37

Got the Champions League been expanded

26:39

next season the World Maxwell Com

26:41

is going to be expanded as

26:43

well. theorized to expand into and

26:45

sixteen so did a lot more

26:47

games In general, Adams does note

26:49

that says not really been appeared

26:51

as of best. Even last season

26:53

is a long season, a blue

26:55

season. The engage The United in

26:57

June thirtieth a cop on was

26:59

on June says months city ended

27:01

on June the Tens and both

27:03

of those clubs have had. Significant.

27:07

Injury issues and in in

27:09

in in recent months throughout

27:11

the season. So.

27:14

Does that take into account for. Their.

27:16

Also, clear issues at United and Ten

27:18

Half Dozen what to say about it.

27:20

He said he has an idea of

27:22

what the issue isn't. Some. Faceoffs

27:25

in which lot sells for the as

27:27

he just said no today and authentic

27:29

in the survey helps himself that I

27:31

think it it would be good to

27:33

be transparent with supporters and opponents as

27:35

about what a be This main below

27:38

the framing a simple these issues the

27:40

like of course and could be there

27:42

and Okafor. And Isis. Science

27:45

Open Weldon. A

27:47

good to be damned. Back there for a final

27:49

image. coming form due to some shows these are

27:51

like exemptions to speak at, you speak and so

27:53

highly of you earlier today but nothing eleven new

27:55

be it's if round the hit the next time.

27:59

said said But

28:01

when you look at a number of injury

28:03

issues that United have had, and

28:06

you consider the Martinez case, in

28:08

September Martinez got injured against Arsenal

28:12

and he's still linked up with

28:14

the Argentina squad for their September

28:16

internationals, came back, played two games,

28:18

United lost both games to Bryson

28:20

and Munich, conceded seven

28:22

goals. Martinez didn't

28:25

look at himself in either of those games. He

28:27

didn't have to have corrective surgery on a metatarsal

28:29

fracture and we don't see him again for four

28:31

months. When

28:35

it was the internationals last month, Martinez

28:37

hadn't played in six weeks and

28:40

he was allowed to go on international duty

28:42

with Argentina and train with Argentina in Los

28:44

Angeles, which is

28:47

11 hours to get there. So it's

28:50

a 22 hour round trip to

28:53

not even play a game. And

28:55

Argentina had two friendlies, though friendlies as

28:57

well. And when I

28:59

mentioned this in September about the wisdom

29:01

of letting Masters go to Argentina, similar

29:04

to United, you said, well, it's good to him to

29:06

spend time with his compatriots being in that environment. Yes,

29:09

of course it is. But if

29:11

Sir Alex Ferguson was the manager, that

29:13

question would not even be asked by Argentina

29:16

or by Martinez, can I go to Los

29:18

Angeles if I've not played in six weeks.

29:21

And of course, when he comes back

29:23

and he's injured quite

29:26

quickly, United look pretty

29:28

daft. And some

29:30

sympathy with the

29:32

manner of his return on Saturday, that Varane

29:34

got injured in the first half, Maguire came

29:36

on. Lindelof got injured in

29:39

the second half. So logically, Martinez comes on.

29:41

They did have the option of Willy Camboiler.

29:44

But if you're taking Martinez in your

29:46

squad, you've got to

29:48

be prepared to bring him on should

29:50

the worst case scenario arise. And unfortunately

29:52

for United, it did. Whether

29:55

it contributed to him then getting

29:57

a muscular problem, injury, sorry, three

29:59

days later. later, only

30:01

United and Martinez will know that.

30:03

The only thing is that unwritten rule. And at

30:05

the time though Samuel, I mean, it was a

30:07

different thing as well, obviously. It was in the

30:10

injury that he was returning from and this was

30:12

a cardistry and said to be sitting in training.

30:15

And look, this is me

30:17

kind of like building up to say

30:19

that the unwritten one football

30:22

that impact injuries are just rotten

30:24

luck, freakish more often than not,

30:26

but muscular injuries are

30:28

always avoidable. And I

30:31

find it quite interesting that Tenharg did

30:34

not bring a fitness coach with him to

30:36

United from Ajax or a

30:38

Dutch fitness coach. I

30:40

mean, Jose Mourinho was not a

30:43

big believer in physiological methods. He was a

30:45

big believer in playing through the pain barrier,

30:47

putting your body on the line. But he

30:49

did bring a fitness coach with him. And

30:52

Lou Dangal brought a fitness coach with him

30:54

in Jose van Dijk in 2014. And

30:57

it was Carlos Lallen who came

31:00

to United with Mourinho. And

31:03

the sales scout, he didn't. He just, maybe

31:05

it was, there was a bit of

31:07

an old boys club going on there. There

31:10

were two departures in

31:12

March 2019, Gary Walker and

31:15

Robin Thorpe from the fitness

31:18

department. And they promoted

31:20

Charlie Owen from the academy to become

31:22

the first team fitness coach. And

31:25

you have to scrutinise, you have to scrutinise

31:27

his role because he

31:30

is responsible for warming them up, for

31:33

going through their paces to ensure that they've

31:35

limbered up properly, that they're

31:38

taking injury prevention techniques. It's not just

31:40

him, there are other people at

31:43

the club. You've got a strength conditioning coach, you've

31:45

got a head of performance as well. They

31:48

kit out the players homes as well, so they

31:50

can do additional work

31:52

away from Carrington. And a lot of

31:54

players do work with their own

31:58

fitness staff away from. the

32:00

training ground. But it's

32:02

really becoming a big problem for United

32:05

because it's not just this season that

32:07

they've had an injury crisis. It was

32:09

happening under Mourinho, it happened under Solskjaer,

32:11

it happened under Van Gogh, it happened

32:14

under Sir Alex Ferguson as well.

32:17

So something is clearly broken

32:19

and they've got a new

32:21

doctor in. Gary O'Driscoll

32:23

joined from Arsenal in, I think

32:25

he officially started in September after

32:29

Steve McNally was the doctor for, I

32:32

think he probably was there for 17 years,

32:34

16 years, 17 years, something like that. He

32:40

started in 2006. But

32:43

really, they've clearly stood still where it

32:45

comes to the

32:48

medical side of things. I mean, they opened a

32:50

tissue, the medical center at Carrington

32:53

in 2012 and Ferguson held

32:55

it as one of their most important signings, but

32:58

they still had to conduct medicals elsewhere.

33:00

That was still going on until about

33:03

seven or eight years ago, I think. Really,

33:06

there's got to be an overhaul of that

33:08

department, of the fitness department, of the physiological

33:10

department, whatever word you want to use, because

33:14

these injuries have had an adverse

33:16

effect on their season. It has

33:18

10 harkers not tied in informing

33:20

us in recent weeks. And

33:22

yes, they've definitely had a bearing on the

33:24

results. I don't think you could ever dispute

33:29

that. But there are also

33:31

issues, some players have issues with 10

33:34

harkers training methods and the

33:37

demands. Casamiro, remarkably,

33:39

we discussed this, didn't we? We looked at it

33:41

before the Liverpool game. A colleague

33:43

told us that he never

33:46

suffered a muscular injury at Real Madrid.

33:49

He's been beset by hamstring problems at United

33:51

this season. He was out for two and

33:53

a half months with a hamstring problem. He

33:55

had a recurrence of it, which prevented him

33:57

from playing against Liverpool in the FAF. wake

34:00

up win last month as well. So

34:02

that's another red flag that

34:04

has to be considered. And we're

34:06

speaking at 20 to

34:09

three. There'll be a bit more on these

34:12

related issues in the embargo section

34:14

at half ten this evening. Going

34:26

back to Martinis, I don't want to be accused of

34:29

English bias. Obviously Luke Shaw joined up with England and

34:31

similar to how Martinis joined up with Argentina just to

34:33

be around the camp really and to be around his

34:35

teammates. But that's a lot more sensible isn't it? When

34:38

it's down the road at St George's Park, it's

34:40

the travelling across to the North America and

34:43

to the States. So you can see why

34:45

that was kind of given the green light

34:47

in the part of Martinis. I

34:50

think the whole nationality aspect is moot. You've just

34:52

got to look at the mileage. Is it

34:56

advisable for an injured player to travel

34:58

to Los Angeles? No. It

35:00

shouldn't even be a question that's

35:03

asked, never mind permission

35:05

granted for the trip. But

35:08

times have clearly changed though. I

35:10

dispute that. I think any club

35:12

who are paying the player's wages,

35:14

if he's injured, he absolutely has

35:16

to stay with the club.

35:18

When Rangit came in, he was only

35:21

interim manager, but he ordered Paul Pogba

35:23

back from his holiday in Dubai where

35:25

he was doing his rehabilitation because he

35:27

was of the opinion that he should

35:29

be doing his rehab back at Carrington.

35:32

He wasn't

35:34

discriminating anyone there. He'd have done it if it

35:36

was Luke Shaw training in Dubai and Luke Shaw

35:38

has trained in Dubai before. One of the best

35:40

things that Ralph Rangit could at the club, maybe

35:42

Anthony Alunga first, that was his legacy, his young

35:45

and poor Paul Pogba away from his family in

35:47

Dubai. Well, they're

35:49

still clear enough to train elsewhere. I

35:52

don't think a Legacy was

35:54

left down. I Don't think there was a

35:56

major uptick in Pogba's performances when he did.

36:00

The point was implying see nice

36:02

it either and. Let's

36:04

face it is, he has not been missed

36:06

whatsoever. That to the other

36:08

London stadium and with last night I watched

36:11

on the West Africa and so a handsome

36:13

as soon as they might find nothing for

36:15

police minister. On

36:17

substances and episode at Chelsea then some. you

36:19

and will be both agree that Miss Mountains

36:22

to start the game way stance against is

36:24

the consensus point and I would start around

36:26

in the guards and off or not he

36:28

checked your team yet and you'll panel but

36:30

I did read a copy of Fun of

36:32

course as as hell out of this is

36:35

a hang out of eleven so I was

36:37

a. Approved us where we will take with i'll suffer

36:39

ones if I'm. No,

36:41

no, I get one. Before Hitler I pass

36:43

attempts. A cat one

36:45

to soccer in and payment right,

36:48

yeah, because of similar extending his

36:50

stint in their pockets is hazardous

36:52

and balance. Like he's

36:54

been exposed and battery seventies and compelling

36:56

enough to keep him at right back

36:59

to be sculpted full backs and dollars

37:01

more. That said less spots and the

37:03

follow it less often wondered after it

37:05

right back and unless unless he wants

37:07

to go with my suggests it unsafe.

37:10

Experiments in the Star and many once you

37:13

have recently well against Liverpool but. I

37:15

still see night with one or you die where

37:17

he stops mls back. Didn't even said piss off

37:20

when he suggested that the new. Politely

37:22

make come into my mouth and and

37:25

yeah he's good at his best that

37:27

he had his best to phone says

37:29

athena say so in very very unique

37:32

and borderline freaky stuff stances. And

37:35

so amazing moments are you didn't have a prisoner

37:37

the know can you discuss the but would you

37:39

saw a man in the numbers and room. And

37:42

his natural position clot us. We stop

37:44

on the rights I mean fun and

37:47

is probably isn't that a huge motors

37:49

indicated on there and see response assembly

37:51

and self promotion. The wings. or

37:55

less your your suggestion is logical

37:58

and my suggestion of Fernando's

38:00

done the right to mount at number

38:02

10 is also logical, but I

38:05

suspect we will both

38:07

be overruled by 10 Harg. Just

38:10

listening to him say the way he spoke about mount and

38:12

said the important thing is that he keeps

38:15

fit and he stays fit. When

38:18

he said that I thought I can't

38:20

really see him starting on the basis of that.

38:22

Do you not think he looked, he's had two

38:25

appearances though and he looked really shocking for him.

38:27

He looked good, he looked

38:29

right. He looked energetic and

38:32

he scored a very good goal at the weekend.

38:34

It was a much more difficult chance

38:36

than it looked at the time when he got the

38:39

ball. I just thought there's only one place to just

38:41

go in and it ended up in the back of

38:43

the net. But I think the replay from behind the

38:45

goal, it showed how precise he had to be and

38:47

he had a player breathing down his neck as well.

38:49

It was a very, very precisely

38:51

taken goal and a very good goal.

38:54

I also think amid doubts whether he

38:56

has the mettle to be a United

38:58

player, put the start

39:00

of him against his former club.

39:02

Don't worry about the hostility that

39:04

he'll doubt the scare. If he

39:07

rises above it, then that indicates

39:09

signing him. If you're holding him

39:11

back, I think that can be a

39:13

negative. But as I said, I

39:18

think 10-Harg is going to be, there are a

39:20

couple of players coming into this game where if

39:24

they get injured, he's going to

39:26

get pelters for it. Varan

39:29

is one of course. I know he told

39:31

you when he was leaving Brentford that his

39:33

injury wasn't too bad, but

39:36

he didn't appear in the training imagery

39:38

that was released on Tuesday from that

39:40

session. Of course, Mount has just

39:42

come back from a four

39:44

and a half month play off and

39:47

he's not had a full game. I

39:49

suppose in Maynooth's case, when he came

39:51

back from injury, he did start for

39:53

the under 21s and the

39:55

EFL trophy did start in the youth

39:57

league As well for the under 19s. The

40:00

different level of course and and mound

40:02

his mouth literally cannot start and in

40:04

those games and the days of Thursday

40:06

miss appear in in. Reserve

40:08

games seem to be long gone as

40:11

well. I'm forced to leave if sadly

40:13

might the more interesting but the.some point

40:15

we ask just if you want sir

40:18

you're a cop your investment. And

40:20

they said that message Sixty million pounds

40:23

and mount. It's is high

40:25

time possibly that he starts and I

40:27

are. Thats why did he says the

40:29

Tuesday morning as easy was the way

40:31

we look at it is that you

40:34

always want to take the onslaught morning

40:36

reads after his junior dust settled pace

40:38

from of the game at the weekend

40:40

than the Village Coates take on was

40:43

to. Consider

40:45

mounts position in the same and

40:47

but the. Weather.

40:50

This game has chelsea's the time started when

40:52

I think it is but. Content

40:55

hard as a said he's he's

40:57

gonna be scrutinized now whether the

40:59

possibility of Russian flies back after

41:01

mass there's returned technically before the

41:03

time frame this as as he

41:05

lay off the United States frequency.

41:08

he came back seven weeks and

41:10

six days and on from from

41:12

his injury against West Ham. So

41:14

it is little bit pedantic, but

41:16

as an as is just about

41:18

rather than as well. That's

41:21

had with Mount The has been training for well.

41:24

Two three weeks? No probably probably three weeks

41:26

of think since he he can buy me

41:28

a running trail is Patreon on grass in

41:31

December and took some longer from thought to

41:33

be returned to it. Too much Disney Eisner

41:35

style. Don't say fuck yes in a sealed

41:37

explain. Some have said today's had three injuries

41:40

the season that was. The.

41:42

One in August, the what on in

41:44

November and then. The. The set

41:46

back wall and he was out injured

41:48

so often used to or those elsa.

41:51

For. Four months I think is t

41:53

separate injuries and that. Contributed.

41:55

To that layoff. Use. one at

41:58

the grown could run and will join you clubs It's

42:00

been such a shame to see him tonight to

42:03

make his mark for injury because at least if he's

42:05

on the bench, he'd just fail. You could judge him

42:07

properly. So it'll be interesting to see what he can

42:09

actually do in the coming weeks. I can't actually predict

42:11

this game because I'm able to have a strong feeling

42:14

going down the branch that somehow cock it up because

42:16

it had more momentum. The team had approval and Manchester

42:18

United in consistency. They just go together. But this game,

42:20

I just, I can't seem to figure it out. Chelsea,

42:23

purely because they're just such a basket against club as

42:25

well. I mean, they've only had 10 at

42:27

the weekend and they drew two. I was dreadful myself. Exactly.

42:30

Chelsea were expected to win that. Obviously got to the

42:32

league cup final against Liverpool. They were brilliant for most

42:34

of that game. And then they just seemed to shrink

42:37

in extra time and they obviously lost on penalties against

42:39

club's kids. So I can't call it.

42:41

What do

42:44

you think? And they've been very good against Manchester

42:46

City in both of their league games this season.

42:48

They got draws and those games, they probably should

42:50

have been 2-0 up at the end

42:53

of the year to have a half time rather than one nil.

42:56

They got a decent draw against Liverpool in

42:58

their first game of the season, 2-2. So

43:00

in some of the big games, they have

43:02

shown glimpses

43:05

of what

43:07

Pocatino would want for them on a

43:09

far more consistent basis. But there's

43:11

a reason why they're lengthening the table. There's

43:13

this nonsense about the underlying stats and Pocatino

43:15

was jabbering on about it last week, how

43:18

they should be in the top four, which

43:20

is complete clap trap. It's a factorial. Everton

43:24

and Chelsea deserve to be in top four. Chelsea's

43:26

league club. Someone

43:29

clearly from Chelsea was peddling Matt Lonson and some

43:31

of the day of the league cup final and

43:33

he got his, he

43:35

or she got their just desserts when they

43:38

lost to a very callow Liverpool side,

43:40

a depleted Liverpool side in extra time.

43:43

But I agree with you. If this

43:45

game ended 10-10, I wouldn't be surprised

43:47

because it's got that potential when they

43:49

played each other at Old

43:51

Trafford in December. Chelsea were, apart

43:55

from United, they've been the worst team I've

43:57

seen at Old Trafford all season, certainly the

43:59

worst team. visiting site. They still

44:01

have greater chances. Exactly. Their fans gave

44:03

them peltas at full time

44:10

and I think it was that Armando

44:12

Broglia hit the woodwork in at a

44:14

time so they were whipped

44:17

as a goal-form away from possibly getting a draw

44:20

on that game. When United had one

44:22

of their better games of

44:24

the season, albeit against one of the

44:26

most dysfunctional clubs, probably the most dysfunctional

44:28

club in the top flight, United's

44:31

record at Stanford Bridge in recent years is

44:33

also very good. They've not lost there since

44:35

November 2017. It's kind of

44:37

flown under the radar. It used to be the

44:39

ground where they never ever won and

44:41

since Celsky R. Kamin as the Caretech

44:44

Manager, I think he

44:46

had three wins there and

44:48

they've not lost in

44:50

their last seven at Chelsea. Chelsea's record

44:52

at United is dreadful

44:54

in general. I think since the

44:57

October 2017 and including

45:01

the October 2018 draw, Chelsea have

45:04

only beaten them once and that was in

45:06

a very forgettable FA Cup semi-final in 2020

45:08

which was played in front of a soulless

45:11

and soundless Wembley because of Covid

45:13

and Oligon the Soulscarf for

45:16

some inexplicable reason, decided

45:18

to pick a team

45:20

that I remember when I got

45:22

the team sheet quite early on and posted

45:24

it and Simon Peach almost messaged me to

45:26

say I think that's a wind-up that team

45:28

sheet. I don't think it's real. It

45:32

was a joke because of the amount of protection. He's been on it

45:34

a couple of times. He

45:40

gets a fair few showers. I

45:43

don't disagree. Apart from that

45:45

aberration, United's record against Chelsea in

45:48

the last six years or so has

45:50

been very good so it should give

45:52

them some hope going there

45:54

but it's

45:57

extremely difficult to call. I'm not a

45:59

betting man unlike some others on

46:01

this podcast. So I'll leave it to them to

46:05

fritter their money away. I'm not sure what

46:07

the odds are. So I'll leave that. Do

46:09

you know what I'm looking forward to tomorrow,

46:11

Samuel? When we make it to the second.

46:14

Yeah, I know what you're going to say. You're going to say

46:16

the spread in the You

46:18

were telling me how good it is. You were telling me if it was

46:20

in a Premier League table, that would be at the top and they'd be

46:22

kind of winners each week. So you've said

46:24

that they would have

46:27

a longer title winning streak than Bayern

46:29

Munich in the Bundesliga League,

46:31

I think, for Press Lounge Foods.

46:33

They're without peer

46:35

on that front. I'll have to give

46:37

that a review on Monday's podcast, I believe we'll be back on.

46:40

So thank you very much for your time, Samuel. You're

46:43

welcome. Thank you, Stephen. And thanks for

46:45

listening as usual. We'll see you after the weekend. Enjoy

46:47

yourself, take care.