0:00

This is the Marathon Training Academy Podcast,

0:02

episode 440. This

0:04

podcast is sponsored by Prevenix, makers

0:07

of Joint Health Plus, which we

0:09

take every day to keep our

0:11

knees and other joints happy. And

0:13

now they make Muscle Health Plus,

0:15

the most comprehensive muscle health supplement

0:17

clinically proven to decrease muscle breakdown,

0:19

increase lean muscle mass, and boost

0:21

protein synthesis. Use the code

0:23

MTASTRENTH at checkout and have Muscle Health Plus

0:25

in the cart and you'll save 15% off

0:27

your entire order. Even

0:30

if you've previously used our code. Visit

0:32

prevenix.com, that's p-r-e-v-i-n-e-x.com,

0:35

and use code

0:37

MTASTRENTH at checkout.

0:40

Hey, big thanks to the Drury Hotel Company

0:42

for sponsoring the podcast. They've been a sponsor

0:44

of ours almost since the beginning. And if

0:46

you're traveling somewhere in the US, definitely look

0:48

for a Drury Hotel. They're so nice. They

0:51

got free breakfast and free food and drinks

0:53

in the evening. That's what they call the

0:55

5.30 kickback. You can use our link to

0:58

save 10% on your

1:00

stay at any location around the US. They're

1:02

in over 25 states. Just go to

1:05

druryhotels.com/MTA to get that

1:08

discount. druryhotels.com slash

1:10

MTA. Welcome

1:28

to the Marathon Training Academy podcast where we

1:30

inspire and empower you to run a marathon

1:32

and change your life. I'm Trevor. And I'm

1:34

Angie. In this episode, we

1:37

speak with fellow podcaster Tina Muir,

1:39

co-author of the book, Becoming a

1:41

Sustainable Runner, a guide to running

1:43

for life, community, and planet. And

1:45

just a reminder, you can get all

1:47

of our training plans, back podcast episodes,

1:49

courses, and more as an academy member.

1:51

Find out how to join when you

1:53

visit marathontrainingacademy.com. All

1:57

right, well, we just got back from Japan

1:59

last night. We're still actually adjusted to

2:01

Japanese time, which is 14 hours ahead. So

2:04

how's that working out for you, Angie? My

2:06

body doesn't know what time it is. In fact, my

2:08

Oura ring doesn't know what's going on either. It's like,

2:10

your bedtime today is 6.30 in the morning. Uh,

2:14

no. But wow,

2:16

we had such a blast in Japan.

2:18

What an amazing country. And Tokyo Marathon

2:20

was so fun. We got to meet

2:22

a lot of listeners over there. And

2:25

we've got a big race recap that we're

2:27

going to work on. So look for that

2:29

around March 20th. That'll be our next episode

2:31

after this. We would do it now, but

2:33

we just don't have enough time to get

2:35

it all put together and do it justice.

2:37

So definitely look for it in the next

2:39

episode. But today we're excited to talk with

2:42

Tina Muir. We know you'll enjoy this

2:44

conversation. Let's give a couple of shout outs before

2:46

we get any further, Angie, today. Let's see

2:48

what is going on out there at MTA Land.

2:51

We'd like to say congratulations to Julia on

2:53

running a 10-minute marathon PR at the Napa

2:55

Valley Marathon with a time of 4.02. She

2:59

is a coaching client of Coach Athena. And

3:01

this comes from Jervis in the Academy. He

3:03

says, I ran my first marathon this last

3:05

Sunday and it was an experience. Huge thanks

3:07

to Angie and Trevor for all the knowledge

3:10

and inspiration. I've gained listening to the podcast

3:12

for the last several months. My time was

3:14

4.18. However, halfway through I

3:16

was at 1.43. At

3:18

mile 11, my legs got tired as I had gone

3:20

out too fast. Then by mile 16, everything

3:23

in my legs were cramping. Even though the

3:25

time isn't what I was expecting, I am

3:27

super proud of myself for finding the mental

3:29

strength to push through and finish. My next

3:31

marathon is planned for October. Hopefully I'll be

3:34

healthy and I'll have a better time training.

3:36

I'll be using an MTA plan for the

3:38

first time. Anyway, thank you for all the

3:40

support and stories this community gives out. I

3:42

am just now joining the group with the

3:45

success stories from everyone here that is shared

3:47

on the podcast. Help me get through those

3:49

last 10 miles. Those

3:51

are tough 10 miles, those last 10 miles of

3:53

marathon. That's right. We Love sharing

3:55

success stories. That is what fires us up

3:57

and keeps us going. Congrats

4:00

Jervis on running your first marathon! Looking

4:02

forward to see what happens at your

4:04

next marathon and we're excited to have

4:06

you in the group. And the

4:09

final email concern Bernice. He says my

4:11

husband surprise me if I guess seen

4:13

me three months at Mt A coaching

4:15

for Christmas. It came at a perfect

4:17

time as I was getting ready to

4:19

run my ate half marathon. I was

4:21

assigned to Coats Land who has an

4:23

incredible running history and is also nutritionist

4:25

sees impressive. I didn't know what to

4:27

expect but coastline quickly help me identify

4:29

key goals and I was amazed by

4:31

all Day learned. I look forward to

4:34

reading Coach Lens detailed emails with feedback

4:36

on my runs and information for continued

4:38

progress. I learned to focus on

4:40

my breathing space seen conquering hills, increasing

4:42

my speed, few lean and pre and

4:44

post run exercises. I ran as I

4:46

and half marathon and finished in two

4:48

eleven fifteen. This was the goal I

4:50

wanted to accomplish. Not only was I

4:52

able to improve my time, I was

4:54

able to enjoy the race and run

4:56

with confidence knowing I was prepared for

4:58

the silly course. I'm thankful the coach

5:00

land for teaching me how to run.

5:02

I recommend Empty A Coaching to anyone

5:04

who is looking to get better in

5:06

the sport and enjoy the miles. This

5:08

has been invaluable experience and she says

5:10

thank you M T A and that

5:12

comes from Bernice. Well for you

5:14

so much blood. Nice email of progress

5:17

on runs as I am. Half marathon

5:19

looks beautiful and greste everyone out there

5:21

just get it done. We hope is

5:23

is conversations is inspiring. Room talk with

5:25

Tina about all kinds of stuff including

5:27

plugging he see what is plugging. Listen

5:30

to find out. Assess, assess your some

5:32

nudity and you what we tell people about

5:34

teen a mere. Tina is

5:36

originally from England. She was a professional

5:38

runner who represented Great Britain and Northern

5:40

Ireland in a World Championship sees the

5:42

host of the Running For Real podcast

5:44

in Twenty Twenty One. She began collaborating

5:46

with the United Nations and has been

5:48

celebrated as one of the lead climate

5:50

activists in the running space. And

5:52

more time or new book is called

5:54

Becoming a Sustainable Runner A guide to

5:57

running for life, community and planet which

5:59

she co wrote with Zoe Row. So

6:01

without further ado, here's a conversation with

6:03

Tina Mirror. Okay,

6:15

we're on the podcast now. It's seen a

6:17

mere coauthor the book becoming a Sustainable Runner

6:19

Tina Welcome to the M T Podcast. It's

6:21

been a while. It has been a

6:23

while that is a long time with ice and

6:25

say that I've been on. Here in I'm

6:27

I'm very excited. See that say he was

6:30

twenty seventeen I looked it up. I think

6:32

when we talk to you last on the

6:34

podcast you just represent a Great Britain throughout

6:36

the world. Have to sit marathon deaths that

6:38

was our allies title as Stampedes Hips the

6:41

up. A lot has happened in your life

6:43

so thought maybe it just brings up to

6:45

speed. I know one thing you've done is

6:47

moved since then he added you were in

6:50

Kentucky less than we talk to you yet

6:52

Yeah I mean living with finance The smallest

6:54

thing that happened. As.

6:57

A. Cs. I live in St.

6:59

Louis now, I have two children Now

7:01

it's ah yeah, that's really funny because

7:03

that would have been right before I

7:06

clicked running because it's we talked And

7:08

twenty seventeen I quit early Sunday seventeen

7:10

say I dramatically and. Emotionally click

7:12

running and now running again that and

7:14

with a different path as in mind

7:16

of so we'll took that of that.

7:19

Yeah have had two children were

7:21

sent her running try to make

7:23

some well as they identified cooler

7:25

combat but sides be competitive before

7:27

deciding. Math assists rather hang

7:29

out with his with everyone else

7:31

in the middle of middle or

7:34

races. Said, I do a lot

7:36

of getting back so guiding visually

7:38

impaired runners are any listeners he

7:40

may remember seeing Tally Williamson Finish

7:42

kneel. Down Syndrome. Ah, I was

7:44

her guide for that. Mom and

7:46

I have completely shifted my career

7:48

paths and now be and of

7:51

one of the voices in sustainability

7:53

and running. Very. Much targeted

7:55

towards getting. People to select their part

7:57

of the solution because isolate. everything

8:00

Environmentally is very much telling us

8:02

go vegan and never go in a plane Be

8:05

extreme or don't bother at all and that's very

8:07

off-putting I very much believe in speaking to everyone

8:09

that we can all do our part in Starting

8:12

wherever we're at. So that's kind of it in the

8:14

gist a lot has happened. Yeah

8:17

Yeah, so do you feel like the changes

8:19

in your life was that what led to writing this

8:21

book? Because you know

8:23

you kind of went from in a way an

8:25

unsustainable Approach to

8:27

running. I mean you were very successful, you

8:29

know is working until it didn't work But

8:31

it wasn't sustainable for you on a

8:34

personal basis and so kind of

8:36

your journey into What

8:38

running can look like as a

8:41

sustainable runner starting with self

8:43

and obviously then branching out

8:45

into Community and the planet,

8:48

you know kind of tell us like how the book came to be

8:51

Yeah, I mean elements of it had been building

8:53

for a long time. I have

8:55

very much always been someone who

8:58

Wanted to look at the long term my coach

9:00

in high school And I may have even talked

9:03

about him was very much a believer in like

9:05

running for life He didn't push me too hard

9:07

in high school because he wanted me to have

9:09

a lifelong career But then

9:11

yes somewhere along the way I got wrapped up

9:13

in kind of the here the now the next

9:15

race and letting that dictate my you

9:17

know long-term future for

9:19

short-term success And

9:21

it wasn't sustainable and I think that's where for

9:24

me why I reached a breaking point to which

9:26

I Something had to give I've explained

9:28

this to hundreds of people now But a

9:31

lot of people look to elite runners and they

9:33

think wow, they've just got it all together But

9:36

as you just said a lot of the time it

9:38

isn't sustainable and we do see this a lot of

9:40

runners like do very well And then crash out of

9:42

the sport or do very well and then struggle to

9:44

get back to where they were and for

9:46

me I knew there had to be more to

9:48

it because running started off as joyful So

9:51

I had to find a way back to that and

9:54

I have really loved Learning

9:56

Along this journey of writing the book

9:58

of reflecting on those experiences. The not

10:00

saying don't challenge yourself, don't set goals, They

10:02

do things that a hot see a But

10:05

how can we do it in a way

10:07

that if you don't achieve your goal and

10:09

I sorry doesn't go well. How

10:11

can you have more to it than

10:14

just the results and then the environmental

10:16

pieces? The lead Sustainable is some saying

10:18

of either view of I have you

10:20

seen Send Gully. Now. Is

10:23

your cartoon? go back in the nineties

10:25

and he of leave I have seen

10:27

that yeah that the fairies that live

10:30

in the forest and you a lotta

10:32

was a specific at. Least

10:34

easy go back and wasn't my children now.

10:36

Love it. It's a it's like a way

10:38

ahead of its time. the about fairies that

10:41

live in the forest in the forest is

10:43

being cut down and the fairies talk about

10:45

how the trees they feel pain and us

10:47

So that was very much that the start

10:50

for me. I'd always cut about sustainability, always

10:52

been interested environmentally and I just died thinking

10:54

about it talking about a month my close

10:56

friends until one day one of them was

10:59

like why do you talk about this and

11:01

vent about this incessantly to us but you

11:03

never say. Anything publicly. And then I

11:05

did. Ah, and then eight days later,

11:08

Chicago reached out to Chicago Marathon and

11:10

I was like, okay, I

11:12

guess this is there is none. Had it

11:14

and and says the sense that really kind

11:16

of set that direction in terms of sustainability

11:19

and and. The book coming together will. What?

11:21

What did the Chicago Marathon way to do? They

11:23

have the sustainability of s and lakes have

11:26

to now but at the time they had

11:28

one and they're doing the work but they

11:30

recognize that if people on participating in what

11:33

they're doing for example if they put. Up

11:35

Com posts recycling and trust

11:37

spins and then have Terrorists

11:39

cycle. Collection for bar wrappers

11:42

and gels. and collecting at

11:44

the heat sheets they like aluminum foil

11:46

thanks but no one is giving them

11:48

in what's the point in doing it

11:50

so they wanted help in getting the

11:52

word out and getting run is to

11:54

just break that cycle of have bit

11:56

silly throwing anything in any trash can

11:59

and so status saw what I was

12:01

doing and thought that I would be a good person to

12:03

bring in to help with getting the word

12:05

out about what they were doing. I was at

12:07

the Boulder-thon in Boulder, Colorado last year and then

12:09

at the end of the race because I stuck

12:11

around to kind of see how things were wrapped

12:13

up and they had an eco team which I

12:15

thought was a good idea. And

12:17

one of the jobs of the team was to

12:19

make sure that every scrap of litter was picked

12:22

up and I've always hated litter. I

12:24

guess it's how my parents raised me. There's one good

12:26

thing they instilled in me, I didn't listen to them.

12:30

My mom is listening. Thanks

12:32

mom. But I'm kind of jumping ahead because I

12:34

wanted to talk about this later but I love

12:37

the concept of plugging. And

12:39

I had not heard that term until I heard

12:41

it from you either maybe from your Instagram but

12:43

here in the book you talk about plugging as

12:45

well. So what is plugging? Everyone can

12:48

go out and plug today if they want to. Well

12:50

firstly I want to recognize the fact that

12:52

you said about you hate litter and said

12:54

it in a way of like I'm a

12:57

rare person that does. You

12:59

know like we should all hate this. Even

13:01

our route around here, I mean Angie, she was

13:04

just saying it seems like all the litter that

13:06

you usually see is like fast food and what

13:08

were you saying? Beer

13:10

cans, soda cans, like cigarette

13:12

butts, like a lot of just

13:14

things. And I was thinking like I don't want

13:17

to like come across as judgmental because people are

13:19

doing the best that they can but it seems

13:21

like they are not taking

13:23

care of themselves and that has waves

13:25

that goes out into the world. And

13:27

so it's like you have to start

13:30

by taking good care of yourself and developing

13:32

that self-compassion and love. Then you can like

13:35

spread that throughout the world like loving

13:37

other people, loving the environment. Well two

13:39

things. One Trevor, I'm going to need

13:42

to borrow Angie for the next year. That

13:44

was the perfect description of my book. I

13:48

can negotiate a contract right now. I'm

13:50

her... A sustainable contract. ... her

13:52

manager. Yeah, yeah. You know you're absolutely

13:54

right and that is the core concept of the

13:56

book as a whole is like you can't take

13:58

care of your community. in the planet if you're

14:01

not taking care of yourself and giving yourself exactly

14:03

what you said, compassion and understanding and respect. But

14:06

also, when we see trash, and this

14:08

is like a subconscious thing in humans,

14:10

when there is trash, you think, well,

14:12

doesn't matter anyway, there's one more thing.

14:14

But when that's the one of the

14:16

beautiful things that I have experienced through

14:18

this plugging, which is yes, picking up

14:20

trash while running. Yes, it

14:22

could be like I might do these

14:24

events at major races where we get

14:26

a whole group of us, we go

14:28

around. And by the way, you said

14:30

that cigarette butts cigarette butts, especially in New

14:32

York is like the number one thing I

14:34

pick up. And I don't in my head,

14:37

no one smokes anymore. But somehow

14:39

I'm like, who smokes these things?

14:41

There's so many cigarette butts everywhere.

14:44

But it really wakes people up to

14:46

I did a plugging event

14:48

in Boston, in Dorchester, in

14:50

one of the neighborhoods with pioneers run

14:52

crew. And afterwards, all the people that

14:55

did it were like, wow, I'd never

14:57

thought about all these times I just

14:59

run over things, I just step over

15:01

them. And if I just reached to

15:03

grab it, you know, I could have just put that

15:06

in the trash. And if every runner picked up one

15:08

item during their runs, think about how much trash there

15:10

would be. Just one thing. So it

15:13

can be an event like

15:15

what I do, but it can also just be

15:18

where you run, you see a plastic bottle. And I

15:20

did it yesterday, I was running with a friend,

15:22

we were on the trails. And

15:24

I saw the pretzel, what's it

15:26

called rolls gold, rolled, rolled gold,

15:28

or whatever. What a packet of that.

15:30

And it stood out because in the trails, you

15:33

don't tend to see it as much. So I

15:35

just bent down and grab it. That wasn't like

15:37

a big pat me on the back thing. That

15:39

was just like, there's a piece of trash that

15:41

doesn't fit here, I'm going to take it away.

15:43

So it can just be something incorporated into daily

15:45

life, you know, walking your kids to school, you

15:47

see you pick up a piece of trash on

15:49

the way. And that's just something that exactly what

15:51

you were saying, like taking pride in yourself and

15:54

in your community, I am proud to live here,

15:56

I want to make this a better place than

15:58

I left it. And if you If you

16:00

want to organize events in your area to do

16:02

a group one, even better. Great

16:04

way to get some squats in too. Yeah,

16:08

you got to pick it up

16:10

correctly. I actually

16:12

do often host them the day before racism.

16:14

People get very nervous, but then they see

16:16

that we're running literally 25

16:18

minute pace and they're like, Oh,

16:21

okay, this is not really texting my buddy very

16:23

much. That's

16:25

cool. So you'll go to a marathon

16:27

and put it out to your network.

16:29

And like the day before do a

16:31

meetup where you guys go around and

16:33

plug. Yeah. So instead of like

16:35

a shakeout, it gives people a way to do

16:37

something good, feel good about

16:39

themselves. And also, especially, I personally

16:42

feel, and this is me coming from, I

16:44

recognize I have that privilege

16:46

of a body that can run fast

16:49

any time I want it to. But

16:52

I feel like a lot of people, a

16:54

lot of shakeouts end up going too fast,

16:57

end up taxing people. This is a way

16:59

of basically walking, but a way to

17:01

give back away to be a part of a

17:03

community event. So yeah, I will do that. We're

17:06

actually going to do one in Boston. I really want to

17:08

make it 500 people. And so

17:10

I'm using all my contact points

17:12

that I can think of to get it out

17:14

there will be, I've got

17:16

kind of a list in mind. So I

17:19

will be doing one before Boston, but I

17:21

did it before New York. And it was

17:23

it was just amazing ending up in Times

17:25

Square with all these bags of trash that

17:27

we had removed from the ground. And, you

17:30

know, people yell things like, wow,

17:32

that's so inspiring or appreciate you. A

17:35

little kid yelled at one point, wow,

17:38

dad, those are some good people. You

17:40

know, like little things like that. They're

17:42

just making like this is appreciated. Even

17:45

though I recognize in New York, that

17:47

amount of trash will be back on the ground again

17:49

next week. It's

17:52

something and it makes you just start having pride

17:54

in where you live and where you visit. So

17:56

I Wanted to like. kind of rewind a little bit because

17:58

I'm really fascinated by this. Concept of having

18:01

more self compassion, separating the ego from

18:03

running and and you know we should

18:05

look at this in any area of

18:07

life. and I think in the book

18:10

he right about separating self worth from

18:12

outcomes. One quote from Zoe that was

18:14

really good. I think she had gone

18:17

through several Dns and her running and

18:19

she said running became an exercise in

18:21

self compassion rather than a negative self

18:24

assessment. And I

18:26

think if that's really where it starts

18:28

because so many people. A cat's

18:30

their ego to they're running or to

18:32

their physical appearance or their pace or

18:34

their the distance they're doing and it

18:36

can be com. Just really kind of

18:38

a negative feedback cycle. Yeah, what's coming

18:40

to mind when you when you bring

18:43

that up is not so much even

18:45

necessary. The outcome? Peace. But a lot

18:47

of runners and I'd imagine this is

18:49

a lot of your listeners. This is

18:51

certainly been me in the past ten

18:53

to get to a place where they're

18:55

running, they're doing their race. Things are

18:57

going well, the dream is coming true,

18:59

and then. All of a sudden something goes

19:01

wrong. Guilt stomach is upset. You talk to

19:03

Dell on. The floor you get

19:05

a stitch something and. Rather

19:07

than saying okay or or something is

19:10

wrong as okay lightless just list is

19:12

regroup and and ticket slice of the

19:14

next smaller will assess in a mile

19:16

In a people have told me even

19:18

as I feel bad at mile sixteen

19:20

doesn't mean elect for good eighteen. Instead

19:22

we say ah soon Unraveling This has

19:24

never meant to be at her Do

19:26

this I I I I guess this

19:28

day is just a waste of time,

19:30

like I'm useless and you start breaking

19:32

yourself. When. Actually, I in a mile

19:34

you could have felt that again and you make up

19:37

the time. And for me

19:39

that's what I used to do. very much that

19:41

like I guess awards myself when it was going

19:43

wrong. Of. Like a will. Of

19:45

course this happens to me. Of course

19:47

everything goes wrong, but then when that

19:49

happens what happens. You get tense and

19:51

you give up. You just say fine.

19:53

I'm just going pick another race or

19:55

the ultimate and next time. And

19:58

instead giving yourself. The of

20:00

Compassion that trust that respect. If.

20:03

You are able to do that even

20:05

if he is doesn't all come together.

20:07

Maybe you find another runner, his a

20:09

friend who just happens to come by

20:11

you when you get to have this

20:13

experience together. Or. Maybe you.

20:16

Decide. Okay, a minute to take this moment where

20:18

I see my family rather than high five. I'm going

20:20

give them a hug and they'll say I'm so proud

20:22

of you and I'll get this experience So. I.

20:25

Think Self Compassion is such a critical

20:27

piece of not only running for best.

20:30

But. That soy of keeping it

20:32

sustainable for long term rather

20:34

than just this short term

20:36

success at all costs which

20:39

just has a slipping between.

20:42

And I can't Do this. Because

20:46

even when you do cap into that

20:49

success that moment we're just feels like

20:51

everything is coming together. Life is all

20:53

about change and doesn't mean that your

20:55

next race, your next goal is going

20:57

to come together like that. I feel

20:59

like. Especially as women. We ride that

21:02

cycle even more strongly is because our

21:04

bodies are always in flux and just

21:06

when you think you get one thing,

21:08

figure it out. Then oh surprise some

21:11

says he. That

21:13

had the conversation my six Rhodes she was

21:15

saying about something changing, unlike and sorry that

21:17

the only thing we can be sure about

21:19

is. That things change and see the sled. What?

21:24

The fuck out there. You suddenly that

21:26

thing and I think it's as

21:28

I have a surreal life. Here

21:32

in her early that sometime are like

21:34

the concept but someday we'll see like

21:36

similar says none of us like it

21:39

that much for sure fill. A.

21:41

Quick Break Things are Absolute Sponsor Previn

21:43

X, makers of Join Health Plus and

21:45

Muscle Health Plus. One way to be

21:47

a sustainable runner is to take care

21:50

of those joints and those muscles and.

21:52

That's why we recommend Joint Health

21:54

Plus because it is really key

21:56

to keeping your cartilage and joints

21:59

healthy. Stick. Boswell in which is

22:01

a natural, powerful and clinically proven anti

22:03

inflammatory and pain reliever that provides additional

22:05

support for joints. We know it's not

22:07

good to be taking and said for

22:10

pain, so this is a great alternative.

22:12

It also has Any M which is

22:14

clinically proven to reduce joint pain, joint

22:16

stiffness, an improved flexibility, and seven to

22:18

ten days. And the other product we

22:20

love is called Muscle Health Plus it's

22:22

designed to fuel your muscle health by

22:25

decreasing muscle break down, increasing lean muscle

22:27

mass which we can all use more

22:29

of and. Muscle Have Plus combines ingredients that

22:31

you'd normally get from two to three different

22:33

products so you be taken a great product

22:35

and saving money at the same time. And

22:37

help you save even more. You can use

22:40

the code M C A strength that check

22:42

out if you have muscle health plus in

22:44

the cart you'll see fifteen percent on the

22:46

entire order even if you've used our code

22:48

in the past. To visit privetx.com use a

22:51

good empty A strength. So

22:54

he along these lines is another great quote

22:56

from the book I we wrote down answers.

22:58

When your ego is tied to a certain

23:00

outcome, everything feels like a zero sum game.

23:04

Did it feel that way sometimes as an

23:06

elite runner? Yeah absolutely yeah and

23:08

it just made it to where I got

23:10

to a point and i guess as I

23:12

have been on his twenty something I got

23:15

to a point mrs when i really realized

23:17

something was wrong some me list when I

23:19

was in January and I was looking at

23:21

a race in July and thinking i felt

23:24

like to the at the said us. Lose.

23:26

Sight of the finish it wasn't even i

23:28

collect gallon the start line at heart rate

23:30

to be at the race the finish. insist

23:33

it yes a me it is all

23:35

gone and say yeah i absolutely felt

23:37

that way in a time sometimes i

23:39

have to remind myself not to fall

23:42

into that the same trap because it

23:44

is tempting we are told in many

23:46

ways this is what running his and

23:48

so many ways we are all fighting

23:50

like salmon swimming upstream to continue verging

23:52

on that path in the same way

23:55

that have so many of your listeners

23:57

it often feels like unless you're running

23:59

marathons you're not really a runner. Or

24:02

if you aren't running marathons, well, when

24:04

are you gonna do a marathon? And I

24:06

just don't agree with that messaging. So there's

24:09

a lot of things that I really, and

24:11

Zoe as well, we both really feel passionately

24:13

about trying to find more

24:15

to your running than just those

24:17

results, those outcomes, those monumental moments,

24:20

because you just miss so much when

24:22

you're focused that way. And I

24:24

think that comes across really strong, just in

24:26

the stories you share are the examples on how

24:28

to be a sustainable runner, how

24:30

really you need to be in it

24:32

for the journey and not just that

24:34

finish line that is easy

24:36

to fantasize about. Yeah, and

24:39

then when you do that, you get to race week

24:41

and all you're thinking is, I don't wanna hurt, I

24:43

don't wanna hurt, I'm scared of that pain because

24:45

you've made it about the wrong thing. So

24:48

yeah. It feels great to finish a

24:50

marathon. It feels great to finally sit down. As

24:54

long as you're not getting up anytime soon. Yeah.

24:57

It probably feels amazing to stand on a podium.

24:59

I've never had that experience that you have, Tina,

25:02

but I remember you telling us that you

25:04

won a race and you didn't know what

25:06

to do with your hands when you broke the tape. That

25:08

was pretty funny. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no,

25:10

that's so funny. That's actually now I look

25:12

back on it. That was one of my favorite races,

25:14

but that moment was funny. Although I did have two

25:17

years after that, so my first postpartum race

25:19

was the Disney World Half Marathon. And

25:21

because of what we've been talking about, I decided I

25:23

wanted it to be about fun. So

25:26

I signed up for the Disney World Half and

25:28

then I was running towards the finish and I

25:30

was winning, which yes, again, privileged

25:32

body, I recognize that. And

25:34

Mickey and Donald were facing away from

25:36

me. And so I was like, oh,

25:39

they're coming, they're coming. Oh,

25:41

I just got to like tap them and be like, I'm finished.

25:44

And then all of a sudden I was like,

25:46

wait, wait, wait, they're not there for you. They're

25:48

there for the picture. They're face, they're turned around

25:50

because then in the picture, they're looking

25:52

at the camera. It was

25:54

the funniest thing at that moment being

25:56

like, oh, this is not about me.

25:58

This is about Disney World. and doing

26:00

what Disney World does, which is making

26:03

the pictures afterwards. So that

26:05

was another funny moment of coming into the finish.

26:07

Did you get anything special for winning? Yeah,

26:10

I got a very like at

26:12

least 15 pound, if not 20

26:14

pound Donald trophy. Very,

26:16

very heavy and also to

26:18

carry. But, um, and I got

26:21

one of the, some of the ears, you

26:23

know, some ears, says Disney World, but no

26:25

beyond that, I think everyone gets those maybe.

26:27

No, beyond that, no. I got an amazing,

26:29

my favorite race picture of all time though,

26:32

Mickey and Donald and Confetti. Yeah. Um,

26:34

that's what I got out of it. Can't top that. Yeah.

26:38

I'm not sure I ever can top that to be honest.

26:40

They're good at what they do. They know how to nail

26:42

it. I

26:44

set that up because like, as good as it feels

26:46

to finish a marathon emotionally, psychologically,

26:49

there's the next day, a lot of people

26:51

get post run blues or the next week,

26:53

you feel like you have to chase that

26:55

high again. And in the

26:57

book, you guys talk about the hedonic

27:00

treadmill. Yeah. So I wonder if

27:02

you could just, uh, speak about the hedonic treadmill and

27:04

what that means to you. Yeah. So,

27:06

I mean, it's kind of along the same lines

27:08

of what we've been talking about that we think

27:10

like people look to elite runners and think, if

27:13

I can just get to there, then I'll be

27:15

happy. Or if I can just accomplish this, then

27:17

I'll be happy. But it it's that we have

27:19

a general baseline in happiness. Each of us have

27:21

it. And while you converge

27:23

and you can think that when I do

27:25

this, then I'll be happier. When I do

27:28

this, then I'll be good. Then I'll check

27:30

that box on happiness. It just doesn't work

27:32

that way. And it's always going to flux

27:34

back to where our baseline is. And so

27:36

the concept of it being like a treadmill

27:39

is that we never really get off that.

27:41

Um, and so the more we

27:44

keep striving for, if I, then

27:46

I kind of thinking we're just

27:48

making ourselves miserable. And you said about those

27:50

post race blues, I

27:52

think a lot of that is because we

27:54

put so much into this that we feel

27:57

lost because now it's

27:59

because. all about outcomes

28:01

versus that journey of discovering a part

28:03

of ourselves we didn't know or the

28:05

process of working through these challenges, the

28:07

runs along the way. And I actually

28:10

think this is a very good reminder

28:12

in life too and we started the

28:14

book with, I can't remember exactly what

28:16

we said, but running is a lot

28:18

like life only smaller. I believe that was the

28:20

opening of the book and it's very

28:22

similar that in the US at least, we live,

28:25

and you get this with your kids, I am

28:27

really struggling with the concept of like, it's

28:29

the 26th of December, I can't

28:32

wait for Valentine's Day! And it's the

28:34

15th of February, I can't wait for

28:36

evening! And it's like constantly looking ahead

28:38

and I really try and teach my

28:40

kids like there's something good and tough

28:42

in every day and running, we definitely

28:44

do that a lot of like, I

28:47

can't wait for this, but even in

28:49

that day post race, there can

28:51

be things we can celebrate that maybe are

28:53

not as big and fulfilling as completing a

28:55

race, but they are beautiful. Maybe we can

28:57

enjoy the fact that we don't have to

29:00

run and we can sit outside and have

29:02

our coffee slowly, I don't know. No,

29:04

I totally agree and as you're

29:06

talking I'm thinking also this can

29:08

be related to like hedonic consumerism.

29:11

Maybe talk a little bit about that. Yeah,

29:13

well I think the first thing I want

29:16

to say is recognizing that to any of

29:18

us, to you two, to myself, to anyone

29:20

listening, it is not your

29:22

fault, it is not your willpower,

29:24

same with like logging into social

29:26

media. There are like some of

29:28

the smartest people in the world

29:30

working to get us to pick

29:33

up our phones, to buy things, to make

29:35

it as easy as possible for when our

29:38

temptations are strong and know exactly what

29:40

to put in front of our faces.

29:42

So I want to first start with

29:44

that because it feels at least to

29:46

me like a lot of the time

29:48

I'm like, ah, why do you fall for that?

29:51

But we're being targeted and we're not designed

29:53

to be able to override that. And

29:56

then beyond that I would say that we're

29:58

also in a world, again a lot of this is

30:00

money or privilege based, but

30:03

they make it easy with the one click. They

30:05

teach you and train you to buy things that

30:07

are cheap that break, so then you go back

30:09

and buy another one. And

30:12

so with runners, I think one of the biggest things you can

30:14

do, as much as it

30:16

feels uncomfortable and doesn't feel as good

30:18

to buy fewer things that are really

30:20

high quality, when you get those things

30:23

that last and can handle wash after

30:25

wash after wash and can handle the

30:27

tough runner lifestyle and don't shrink, you

30:30

know, Angie, you messed up this with

30:33

the sleeve, like works its way up

30:35

till it's basically at your shoulder and you're like, Where

30:37

is the sleeve going? That

30:42

is because we haven't, they're not made of

30:44

materials that are designed to last. And

30:46

actually the average clothing item

30:48

now is starts to fall apart

30:51

after five washes. And clothing used

30:53

to be something that was passed

30:56

down in wills, you know,

30:58

literally here, my son take my

31:00

coat that I've been wearing for my whole life.

31:02

Like, it's insane.

31:05

So buying fewer

31:07

things that are higher quality is

31:09

definitely the biggest thing I would

31:11

say there's also plenty of reuse

31:13

options like Zoe and I

31:16

differ and I'll be honest in terms of

31:18

like she does buy mostly used running clothes,

31:20

I will be honest that for me is

31:22

not somewhere I've got to but in my

31:24

casual day to day work clothes, I do

31:26

buy used because you can find really good

31:28

things for a lower price. And

31:31

that also is a good example of the

31:33

book is called becoming a sustainable runner and

31:35

we're not perfect. I'm not perfect. We're

31:37

all going to have things that we prioritize.

31:39

But also, I'd like to

31:41

tell people to keep in mind where something

31:43

is going afterwards. If you are

31:45

going to buy glasses

31:48

on December 30, let's say

31:50

happy 2025. Think through the fact That

31:53

you'll wear those on New Year's Eve And yeah,

31:56

you'll get some fun pictures, but then those are

31:58

going to spend 100 years minimum in a. Landfill.

32:01

Really worth flake that picture and so

32:04

it's trying get people to think about

32:06

where this is going off. Would not

32:08

support realize you. Because. Sometimes you

32:10

don't have a choice. I often use

32:13

Example for yoga. Unless you live in

32:15

the crunchy is city ever you can't

32:17

buy yoga in the jaw. It comes

32:19

in plastic and say. It

32:21

doesn't mean don't ever have yoga, it just

32:23

means that something you don't have a choice

32:26

over that for the system has to change.

32:28

Man that was a bit rambling and off

32:30

in many directions, but I think that was

32:32

since help. With no I think that's that's

32:35

really the good examples And I was thinking

32:37

also like something I do with my kids

32:39

is meaningless when they were younger though it

32:41

out in their begging for the latest thing

32:43

like our gotta have the saw my friends

32:45

have and like okay let's think about it.

32:48

Let's think about it for a couple of

32:50

weeks you know and will will circle back

32:52

to Ban. If you still want that saying,

32:54

if you're still wanting to spend your money

32:56

on it, will consider it and it's It's

32:58

really interesting I find with myself to if

33:00

you just give yourself that pause that breathing

33:02

room often. He circle back in your

33:05

like i don't need that you know

33:07

So it's like those little things that

33:09

you're talking about can really make a

33:11

big difference. So. Quick. Break

33:13

think our sponsors to assess, assess

33:15

assess assess assess. Is it like

33:17

over by the way These are

33:19

very important things such as a

33:21

i hate sites selects carefully. he

33:24

put that prosecuted for six o'clock

33:26

So here's the course we had

33:28

free. what are some ways that

33:30

runners can give back to the

33:32

community. This. Is such

33:35

a critical piece the me

33:37

and my long term happiness

33:39

Selman just feeling grounded in

33:42

life. Is. So me

33:44

this as top of my a mean the

33:46

first fourteen years of my running like rule

33:48

about me I what I get it was

33:50

a sustainable. Now. that

33:52

i have found ways to give back i so

33:55

pure joy and you'll have seen the picture in

33:57

the book the picture of me running as a

33:59

guide served my said Kyle visually impaired runner. He

34:02

had said to me, do you know where all

34:04

the cameras were in the Boston Marathon? And I

34:06

was like, no, I just genuinely was smiling the

34:08

whole way. And

34:11

he did say he he told me last time I

34:13

saw him like, you better add what I said afterwards.

34:16

So this time, I'm gonna add what he said afterwards,

34:18

which was, well, next time, can you let

34:20

me know? That's because

34:25

it is just it just feels good

34:27

to be part of something bigger than

34:29

yourself to be a part of someone

34:32

else's dream chasing. And so

34:34

for me, what I do a lot of is yeah,

34:36

guiding for visually impaired runners. Can I ask you

34:38

about that real quick? Sure, go ahead. Okay,

34:40

so I've never done it. Do

34:42

you kind of hang on to the runner or

34:44

just verbally guide them? And do you guys practice

34:46

this beforehand? Okay, these are

34:48

literally the two biggest questions. So good,

34:51

good thing. And the visually

34:53

impaired community is always needing more guides. So

34:55

it doesn't mean you commit to doing this

34:57

every day for the rest of your life,

34:59

you could do it once a week with

35:01

a runner locally, you could just be in

35:03

the resource directory so that someone says, Hey,

35:05

I'm coming in for the weekend to run

35:08

this race. Is there any way you want

35:10

to be a guide for me? And then

35:12

you can sign up to answer your question.

35:14

It depends on the runner what they want,

35:17

and what their disability is. A lot

35:19

of runners have tethers, which is kind

35:21

of the rope about I never

35:23

know feet, I don't understand, let's say

35:26

like, three hand widths

35:28

apart. You hold one, they hold one, and

35:30

you kind of give them some visual cues.

35:32

Like for me, I would say, I would

35:34

say 321. And when I

35:37

say that, they know pick their feet up because something tricky

35:39

is coming. So they need to be

35:41

careful, essentially, it's essentially saying to be careful in

35:44

three seconds. Some

35:46

people will hold on to your arm, some

35:48

people don't need you to hold on. But

35:50

maybe when you turn a corner, like every

35:53

friend, Mauricio, who has a

35:55

traumatic brain injury, he just needs when

35:57

you turn corners, he'll grab my forearm

35:59

so I can guide him where we're going. So

36:02

it really depends on the person and no,

36:04

with every person I have run with,

36:06

I have maybe gone on a run

36:08

the day before with them for like

36:11

a mile. But no, you don't need

36:13

training, you don't need to practice beforehand,

36:15

you get in a rhythm with

36:17

them much quicker than you think each person

36:19

is different in what they need. Like some

36:21

people just need being told visual cues, but

36:23

it just kind of it tends to fit

36:25

and to demonstrate this point further. In 2022,

36:28

I ran New York

36:30

with a runner from Mongolia who was blind,

36:33

but he didn't want a tether. He didn't

36:35

want anything and he's Mongolian. So we did

36:37

not speak the same language. We

36:39

made it work. Yeah, at times

36:41

it was like, we were kind

36:44

of hurt bit stumbly. But

36:46

that was me stepping it up to a whole

36:48

new level of guiding. You know, but

36:50

I do I want to encourage as many

36:53

people as possible because that's, for me, the

36:55

greatest way of giving back. But you can

36:57

also do things like volunteering. We all appreciate

36:59

the fact that we get a cup or

37:02

the fact that you have someone who to put your

37:04

medal on you at the finish line. That is another

37:06

way that you can give back to the community that's

37:09

given you so much. So those

37:11

are two of my favorite ways. There's also like pacing,

37:13

you know, if you're someone who loves to

37:15

run with a pacer, could you do that

37:18

for another group, not necessarily your PR pace,

37:20

but you know, a few groups back. So

37:22

there's plenty of ways to like level up

37:24

your relationship to running that don't have to

37:26

affect your training. At my point, I kind

37:29

of am at the point where it's affecting

37:31

me a little bit, I shouldn't have really

37:33

done a 10 hour marathon with Kaylee. That

37:37

wasn't the best for my body and its cadence, but

37:39

it was worth it for me. Most

37:41

runners who have goals, you can still do

37:44

this without affecting your training. Can

37:46

you tell us a little bit about that run?

37:48

Because I do remember seeing runners

37:50

world and other places post

37:52

the photos of her crossing the finish

37:55

line. Yeah, I mean, it truly

37:57

went viral. We Yeah,

38:00

so I ran Boston with her and

38:02

her mum in 2023. She did not

38:05

finish. And afterwards, they were really deflated.

38:07

And I wanted to give them

38:09

a better opportunity. And I knew

38:11

New York was a more welcoming

38:14

and a space that

38:16

would potentially allow them to thrive. So

38:18

as I am fortunate to have friends in the

38:21

right places in New York, I called them said

38:23

I'd like to bring Kaylee and Sandy in and

38:25

they said, amazing, let's do it. And

38:27

so we Yeah, we went into the

38:29

New York City marathon, a very, very important

38:31

marathon to Kaylee in general. Her

38:33

grandma was one of her most, her most

38:35

treasured people in her life. She wanted to

38:38

do it in her memory. And she kept

38:40

saying like, I can hear grandma telling me

38:42

go Kaylee, go Kaylee. And

38:44

she'd say, you know, she was just talking

38:47

about her grandma constantly. And that's the beautiful

38:49

thing I want to add for listeners about

38:51

Kaylee. If anyone's seen it, if you haven't,

38:53

go watch it have a tissue, you will

38:55

cry. She doesn't

38:57

do this. She does it for herself, but

38:59

she does it for other people. She really

39:02

does it for the people she loves.

39:04

And so we started off New York, and

39:06

she just danced her way

39:08

along the course, high fived

39:11

probably 500 people was

39:14

not in any kind of hurry. For

39:17

me, that was a very strange situation to be

39:19

in while I've been a guide many

39:22

times, every time the runner has had

39:24

like, I'd like to run this speed. And I

39:26

this is what I'm going to do. Kaylee was

39:28

just out there for the experience. And

39:30

yeah, we went through the halfway point in

39:33

five hours. And I thought, okay,

39:36

it's gonna be a long day. But

39:39

yeah, she she I mean, and yes,

39:41

as you see with her crossing the

39:43

finish, she gave it everything she had

39:46

with a few miles to go. She

39:48

was so done, but she kept moving

39:50

forward. We had to try

39:52

new things constantly to keep her going

39:54

when she was struggling. And yeah,

39:56

she ended up being such an inspiration for

39:58

so many people of like You know

40:00

challenge yourself see what see what you

40:02

can do, but also to my point

40:04

earlier Doesn't mean it can't be fun

40:07

doesn't mean you can't find joy along

40:09

the way Even if

40:11

you are pushing yourself to your limit Wow.

40:13

Thank you for sharing that story. That's amazing. Yeah,

40:15

she is amazing We

40:17

weren't even planning to ask you that Cool

40:20

how this just comes about you know I do want

40:22

to say for anyone who's running the United half in

40:25

March Kaylee and I and Sandy

40:27

are gonna do that and we

40:29

also hosting a plugging event the day before no,

40:32

ding-ding if someone wants to meet Kaylee

40:34

and She gives the best

40:36

hugs in the world like better than my children

40:38

like literally in the world And

40:41

so if anyone wants to come meet her or come

40:44

to the plugging will be we'll be there together good

40:46

stuff. Yeah Everyone

40:48

go check out the book becoming a sustainable

40:51

runner by Tina Muir and Zoe Rome Tina

40:53

great to speak with you Again, it's been

40:55

a long time I'm glad we got to

40:57

catch up and if we want to send

41:00

listeners to your official your official home online

41:03

Where is that home? One

41:07

of the homes is under repair is under

41:09

repair or like having a resting period

41:11

so the main place I would send them to is

41:13

running for real calm As that's

41:15

where it's most up to date It's fine

41:18

meals social media and yeah The book is

41:20

available in all the major retailers also available

41:22

in audiobook if you can tolerate nine

41:24

hours of my voice But

41:29

yeah, thank you so much I always love talking to

41:31

you both and appreciate all you've done for the community

41:33

is that's another piece we didn't talk about was Finding

41:36

your place finding where you belong and I know

41:38

you two have created that for so

41:40

many people So thank you for that

41:42

too. Thank you Tina. Hey, I like that.

41:44

That's that's a great way to end the show, right? I

41:49

know this is not your first book, right? You wrote one I

41:51

mean I felt it was essentially a rambling blog

41:53

post that I like you got up on the

41:55

internet Human

41:58

kinetics, I mean they're serious public with

42:00

shirts. They usually do those like

42:02

thick tomes. Oh yeah. Theory of

42:04

books. It's like a

42:07

jam. Yeah. It was an interesting process.

42:09

In my head I thought when you wrote

42:11

a book it was about like you write a chapter

42:13

and then they say, let's reword

42:16

this sentence. Oh, you spelled something wrong

42:18

there. But it's like, okay,

42:20

take this. This order isn't

42:22

working. So do something with it. And

42:24

you're like, and then

42:26

when she starts taking chunks, then it

42:29

doesn't flow down here. So then you have to read it

42:31

and like, so it's really a bit

42:33

of a mess with your head. But it

42:36

was an amazing experience. Zoe and I, I mean,

42:38

friends and I don't know if you could feel

42:40

this can tell which pieces I wrote and which

42:42

pieces Zoe wrote, but I'm the

42:45

more fluffy version in case that wasn't

42:47

obvious. But I do feel like we

42:49

found a nice central voice that is

42:51

quite digestible. She's coming from

42:53

the publishing world. I'm coming from the like,

42:55

let's just word vomit all over the

42:57

internet side. And we found a

43:00

nice middle ground. You

43:02

definitely did. I think it's wonderful. Yeah,

43:04

we really, we've been, we've been very

43:06

happy with it. So yeah, it was cool.

43:08

How about you? What's coming up? For

43:10

us, Tokyo marathon. Oh,

43:13

amazing. Yeah. It'd be our first time going to

43:15

Japan. So we're both doing it. We are.

43:17

Yeah. We're doing it with the charity room

43:19

to read. So we're really excited about that.

43:21

And I forgot. Yeah, you're a big reader,

43:23

aren't you, Angie? Yes, we're both. Yeah, probably

43:26

read a lot. Our houses has an uncomfortable

43:28

amount of books. You're gonna be when you're

43:30

in your like 80s, you're gonna be one

43:32

of those hoarder families. All right, well, it

43:34

was fun to catch up with Tina Muir.

43:36

If you're out and about today on a

43:52

run, you can start plugging. See one of

43:54

those McDonald's big gulps on the side of

43:56

the road like we see in our neighborhoods

43:58

sometimes. and whatever's in

44:01

it, you can finish. It's

44:04

free. Now, but

44:06

it does feel good to live in an

44:08

area with not a lot of litter. And

44:10

that's something that really impressed us about Japan

44:12

is how clean it is. We

44:14

were walking through this huge market and there's

44:16

great food, tons of snack food in Japan and

44:19

all of it I wanna try. So I buy

44:21

this little tasty, I don't know, it's like this

44:23

dumpling and I was just gonna eat it and

44:25

walk around eating it and apparently you don't do

44:27

that. It's kind of like a faux pas to

44:30

walk around eating food. In Japan,

44:32

you just don't see people doing it. So I bought

44:34

this thing and I was about ready to tuck into

44:36

it and Angie, you're like, you're gonna eat

44:38

that here? And

44:40

I'm like, oh yeah, I forgot. So then I

44:43

turned down a side street, standing there in the

44:45

dark, hiding my shame and eating my thing I just

44:47

bought, which was tasty. And then I'm like, all right, now

44:49

I gotta throw this wrapper away. Let me look for a

44:51

trash can. Nope, can't find them.

44:53

So you're just expected to pack it

44:56

out with you, right? And

44:58

it works. Hey, and speaking of

45:00

Japan, keep an eye out for episode

45:02

441, our next episode, we're gonna do

45:04

a massive race recap. We'll tell you

45:06

all about the Tokyo Marathon. Wow, what

45:08

an experience. Thank you to all of

45:10

you that listen. If you haven't officially

45:12

subscribed to the podcast, let's make it

45:14

official, hit that subscribe button. You can

45:17

also find us on social media at

45:19

Marathon Academy on Facebook and Instagram. If

45:21

you wanna share your story or ask

45:23

a question, we have a contact

45:25

form on our website, marathontrainingacademy.com. We'd

45:28

love to hear from you. Until next time, remember

45:30

you have what it takes to run a marathon

45:32

and change your life. ["A

45:34

marathon with a man"]