0:00

This is Marathon Training Academy, episode 422.

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This podcast is brought to you by Sidekick.

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1:00

♪ Bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum. ♪

1:04

♪ Oh, oh, oh, oh,

1:06

oh. ♪ ♪ Bum, bum, bum, bum,

1:08

bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum. ♪ ♪ Oh,

1:12

oh, oh, oh, oh. ♪ ♪ Bum, bum, bum, bum,

1:14

bum, bum, bum,

1:15

bum, bum, bum, bum. ♪ Hello, and welcome to

1:17

the Marathon Training Academy podcast, where

1:19

we empower you to run a marathon and change

1:21

your life. I'm Trevor.

1:23

And I'm Angie.

1:24

In this episode, we explore the relationship

1:26

between fitness and play, how to have

1:28

fun while training for a marathon. And

1:30

don't forget, you'll have a lot of fun getting your questions

1:33

answered. As an Academy member, you get access

1:35

to all of our back podcast episodes, full-length

1:37

interviews, training plans, and more. Find

1:39

out how to become a member over at marathontrainingacademy.com.

1:44

All right, so the World Championship

1:46

Marathon was just held in

1:48

Budapest. So the World Championships

1:51

are the second most prestigious global

1:54

competition actually managed by the same

1:56

governing body in athletics that

1:58

governs the Olympics.

1:59

The Olympics and the World Championships or worlds

2:02

as most people refer to them are held every two

2:04

years. This year the first place

2:06

woman was Amane Shankulay of

2:08

Ethiopia. She finished in 2-24-23. The

2:12

top US finisher was Lindsay Flanagan

2:14

in ninth place in 2-27-23. Kira

2:17

Damato who we've had on the podcast finished 17th. She

2:20

had a really tough race but still managed

2:22

to come in in 2-31. On

2:24

the men's side of things, the first place finisher was

2:26

Victor Kiplangat of Uganda in

2:29

2 hours, 8 minutes and 53 seconds. The

2:32

top US male finisher was Zach Panning

2:34

in 13th place with a time

2:37

of 2-11-21.

2:38

Running through the beautiful city of Budapest.

2:42

So we always love to give props to

2:44

folks in our community who are out there pursuing

2:46

their fitness. Here's some shout outs for

2:48

you. First of all to Elijah, long time

2:50

listener.

2:51

That's right. He says, I haven't posted

2:53

here in a long time but some of you may remember I DNF'd

2:55

this race last year. Well, I got my

2:57

revenge and beat the Bulldog Trail Ultra

3:00

in Southern California. I had my

3:02

nutrition dialed in and an attitude

3:04

of gratitude. I didn't complain once

3:06

or wish that I could just be done and move on.

3:09

I'm still riding the wave and working to earn

3:11

the 2,500 mile medal I bought last

3:13

year. Thanks MTA for the years of tips

3:16

and tricks. Happy trails and happy goal

3:18

chasing everyone.

3:19

Love it. That was

3:21

the Bulldog Trail Ultra. I believe it was the 50K that

3:23

he did. So congrats on conquering

3:26

that Elijah.

3:27

This comes from Peggy in the Social Distancing

3:29

Run group. She says, I ran the Edmonton

3:31

Marathon, the friendly marathon today

3:33

and it was amazing. I finished in a time of 4.21.17,

3:36

my best marathon ever. I've

3:39

only done three other official ones. I

3:42

came in second place in my age group and almost

3:44

qualified for Boston. 4.20 is

3:46

my BQ time for my age group. My

3:48

training worked. I just needed a bit more energy

3:50

for the last 10 kilometers. This group

3:52

really motivates me and I love learning from other

3:55

people's experiences. So thank you for creating

3:57

this

3:57

group. And that comes from Peggy from

3:59

Canada.

3:59

Awesome finishing time, Peggy. That's so great

4:02

to hear. And finally, we'd like to say congrats

4:04

to MTA coach Chris on our team.

4:06

She won second overall female at

4:08

the tunnel half marathon in Washington

4:11

state. And this is in spite of having horrible

4:13

food poisoning the night before.

4:14

Oh my, that sounds

4:16

rough. You kind of mess up your race day goals.

4:19

Yeah, congratulations on still

4:21

showing up and doing your best. And that's pretty

4:23

awesome. Well

4:24

on my way, well on my way,

4:26

well on my way. Now

4:29

that I'm well on my way. Well on my

4:31

way, well on my way, well on my

4:34

way.

4:35

All right, in this episode, we're

4:37

gonna focus on the relationship between

4:39

fitness and fun. How can you use

4:41

the power of play essentially

4:44

in your long distance running? This idea

4:46

came to me when I was throwing a football with my son.

4:49

I was thinking about the importance of play for kids.

4:52

You've probably heard of the Swiss psychologist, Jean

4:54

Piaget. He's famous for his work

4:57

and how play is essential for early

4:59

childhood development. So we know that children

5:01

learn through play, but what about adults? Why

5:04

do we keep playing?

5:05

Right now in the US, the fastest growing

5:08

sport is pickleball. Wow. I

5:11

actually have not tried it yet. I would like to. And

5:13

apparently pickleball, there's a low barrier

5:16

to entry. Tennis is kind of hard to get good

5:18

at to where you can start having fun. At first

5:20

you're just hitting the ball in the net. You

5:21

know, pickleball's easier. So yeah,

5:24

there's a lot of adults, a lot of older adults coming

5:26

in and playing. So why do we play

5:29

as adults?

5:30

This is from the website Psych Central

5:32

on the importance of play for adults. It

5:35

says, playing is just as important for adults

5:37

as it is for kids. Among its many benefits,

5:40

adult play can boost your creativity, sharpen

5:42

your sense of humor, and it can also help you

5:44

cope with stress better. And they

5:46

say anything you do, recreationally

5:49

that brings you joy or excitement can

5:51

count as playing. Whether it's getting sucked into

5:53

a video game, collecting stamps.

5:56

That sounds exciting right there. I

5:59

say that as a guy.

5:59

you collect stuff, playing

6:02

sports or writing short stories in your

6:04

spare time, whatever style of play works

6:06

for you, know that making time for it

6:08

can have substantial benefits

6:10

for your mental and physical well-being. Yeah, that's

6:13

right. I was reading an article in the New York Times

6:15

by Kristen Wong and a great quote that stuck

6:17

out to me was that she said, generally

6:20

speaking, play is something that's imaginative,

6:23

self-directed, intrinsically motivated

6:25

and guided by rules that leave room for creativity.

6:28

And the article kind of went on to point out how

6:31

play is a way of disconnecting from

6:33

our ego and becoming less self-conscious.

6:36

Of course, part of our ego's job is to play

6:38

the role of self-critic and to try to protect

6:41

us from failure. But that

6:43

can often lead to our world getting smaller and

6:45

smaller until we feel like we're trapped and constrained.

6:47

You know, we have to be the responsible adult

6:49

all the time. So play can be one of those

6:52

ways to break out of the box. I

6:54

know I've fallen into the trap before of

6:56

thinking that all of our free time must

6:58

be spent productively, which eliminates

7:01

play essentially and creativity.

7:03

Play is also a biological drive. As

7:05

with any topic, you know, once you dig in, you see

7:07

how deep it goes. So as I was preparing

7:10

for this, I found

7:11

the National Institute for Play. The

7:13

National Institute for Play was founded by Dr.

7:15

Stuart Brown, and they are dedicated to

7:18

advancing society's understanding and

7:20

application of play, a long ignored

7:22

biological capacity that can lead

7:24

to healthier, happier lives.

7:26

I hope it's fun to work there. I

7:29

know. I hate

7:31

my job. Where do you work? National

7:33

Institute for Play.

7:34

You like walk

7:37

in and the buildings all drab and depressing.

7:39

Fluorescent lights everywhere. You only

7:41

get one 15 minute break a day. This

7:46

is a serious institute. I

7:48

think it might just be a website where kind of research

7:50

is collected. Anyway, Dr. Brown says

7:53

that we have play circuits buried

7:55

deep in our midbrain that are just waiting to be

7:57

activated and when the neurons.

7:59

of our play circuits are activated by elements

8:02

in our environment, we get motivated to engage.

8:05

He says, for example, when you see a ball, you

8:07

want to pick it up and throw it, especially if there's a puppy

8:09

or a fun friend, because your play

8:11

circuit is activated by seeing that object.

8:14

In our case, our cat loves to

8:16

play with a twist tie, just a regular

8:18

ordinary twist tie from a bread bag. And

8:21

it will like chase it for long

8:23

periods of time and retrieve it and bring it back.

8:25

And it brings me a lot of joy to like throw the twist

8:28

tie for our cat.

8:29

Yeah, this cat acts more like a small dog. Isn't

8:31

it funny how usually toys that pets

8:34

like the most are not even the official pet

8:36

toys that you buy? Just random

8:38

stuff.

8:38

It's often the same with kids. Dr.

8:41

Brown goes on to say, the more adults act from

8:43

their play nature, the greater their overall

8:45

well-being. Adults who do not regularly activate

8:47

their play nature may experience their lives

8:50

as tinged with depression. They may

8:52

lack the optimism, adaptability, and

8:54

resiliency to perform well in their work

8:57

and in their family lives.

8:59

So turning our attention for a moment to

9:01

evolution, let's think about how our early ancestors

9:04

played. We had Dr. Daniel

9:06

Lieberman from Harvard on the podcast back

9:08

in 2021 when he came out with this

9:10

book, Exercised. He argues

9:12

that we didn't evolve to exercise,

9:15

per se. Our ancestors were hunter-gatherers

9:18

and they spent hours every day walking,

9:20

carrying, digging, and occasionally

9:23

running, climbing, throwing, dancing, and fighting.

9:25

So in other words, they played. He writes, as

9:28

far as we know all mammals play when they

9:30

are young, helping them acquire social and

9:32

physical skills, humans are one of the few

9:34

species that also sometimes play as

9:36

adults, and uniquely in the context of

9:38

sports, a distinctive human behavior

9:40

common to all cultures. Ancient texts

9:42

like the Iliad and paintings from Pharaonic

9:45

Egypt testify that sports

9:48

like wrestling, sprinting, and javelin

9:50

throwing helped would-be warriors keep

9:52

fit and hone their combat skills.

9:56

You can just see how war-like culture

9:58

sort of just morphed into sports.

9:59

cultures. That's why there's so many fight elements

10:02

in sports. But like Dr. Lieberman says,

10:05

games and play were used to keep skills

10:07

sharp that you would need for hunting

10:10

and for combat, and for socialization

10:12

as well. So it's not just about violence. Also

10:15

for socialization.

10:16

Also group cooperation, physical and emotional

10:19

well-being. There's all elements of a

10:21

team play atmosphere.

10:23

What we need to do in the point of this episode

10:25

is we need to look at exercise,

10:28

not as work, but as play.

10:30

Because

10:30

exercise kind of sounds like a chore, and

10:33

no wonder we procrastinate it, right? But

10:35

play, that sounds like fun. So it's

10:37

really all a matter of attitude.

10:40

Two people might be throwing a ball, but one is

10:42

playing and the other is not. In fact, on

10:44

the National Institute for Play website, there's

10:46

a photo of a dude throwing his golf club. And

10:49

it says, the caption reads, golf

10:51

is not play for this guy.

10:53

It's not having fun. So

10:56

you could be out there on a run having fun

10:59

and it's like play and you could

11:01

be out there just hoping to get it over with.

11:03

Hating every second of it. That

11:06

doesn't

11:06

sound like fun. No. So we're going to

11:08

talk about how long distance running and marathon training

11:11

can be viewed as play. Because I was thinking, you know,

11:13

when I do a trail marathon, especially the ones

11:15

I've done, like in the mountains, they're hard. It's

11:17

a death march up these mountains. It's hot, but

11:20

I view it as I get to play in the mountains.

11:22

It's so fun to be out there in nature.

11:24

If I was doing a city marathon, like if I was

11:27

running Chicago this year, I would view it as

11:29

a fun romp through the city. They're going

11:31

to close down the course just for us. It's

11:33

like a 26.2 mile tour of the city.

11:35

We get to see all this cool

11:36

stuff and all these people are going to be cheering for us. That

11:38

sounds like a lot of fun. Even speed work sessions

11:41

can be play.

11:42

Yeah. The Swedish word fartlek

11:44

means speed play. There you go.

11:47

Those guys got it figured out, man.

11:49

Speed work doesn't translate as fun in

11:52

my brain that easily. I don't know. Do you find it fun?

11:54

I think it depends on your mindset, your attitude

11:56

again. You know, if you look at it as just another

11:58

thing that you have to check off.

11:59

your to-do list, then it can

12:02

be monotonous and grueling.

12:04

But if you look at it as you get to test your

12:06

body out and challenge yourself and

12:09

see what you're made of, then that can

12:11

bring more of a playful attitude towards

12:13

it. So let's say you're going down to the track,

12:15

uh, cause you're going to do some tempo runs down there,

12:18

some Yasso 800s. Why not

12:20

tell yourself I get to go play at the track

12:22

today.

12:22

That's right. Or if you have a hill run scheduled,

12:25

think of it as I get to play on the

12:27

hills today.

12:29

You never know what you're going to see out there. That's

12:31

right. So in just a moment, we're going to share seven

12:34

elements of play that will help you focus on

12:36

the fun in your marathon training. And

12:38

speaking of marathons, we are so

12:40

excited to be partnering with the Flagstaff

12:43

Marathon in Arizona. They have a

12:45

full, a half and a 10 K on beautiful

12:47

trails at elevation. So it's

12:49

a tough race. In fact, they describe

12:51

it as one of Arizona's toughest marathons.

12:54

That's right. This isn't just a race. It's a journey

12:56

through Northern Arizona's famous geological

12:59

wonders, a test of your endurance

13:01

and spirit.

13:02

That's a beautiful area.

13:03

Yeah, it is. So it's

13:06

going to take place November 4th, this year, 2023. The

13:09

Flagstaff Marathon is really bringing the element

13:11

of fun, which we are talking about

13:14

on this episode. This year, expect

13:16

to see a gourmet hot cocoa bar for

13:18

all to enjoy. Featuring a kid's area

13:20

with games, cornhole, and a bouncy

13:22

house. All race participants receive

13:25

a swag bag, metal post-race lunch

13:27

and beer, and they have

13:29

warm and cozy men's and women's race hoodies.

13:32

So they really deliver

13:33

on the swag.

13:35

Yeah. Use the code MTA23

13:37

for 15% off and just a heads up

13:39

prices go up September 25th. So

13:41

if you're hearing this in time, Flagstaffmarathon.com,

13:44

use the code MTA23 for 15% off. Thanks

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also to Ola Dance, makers of wearable

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stereo earbuds. You'll be able to listen

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to your favorite music and podcast while

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still hearing what's going on around you in your environment

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and not have your ears get tired.

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if you listen to a lot of audio, which

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tends to happen. Take it from Angie, she listens

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to audio books every day of the year.

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Guilty as charged.

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These are the most comfortable earbuds

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Just go to oladance.com, use the code MTA20

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14:45

All right, let's talk about the seven elements

14:47

of play that can help you focus

14:50

on finding more fun as a long distance

14:52

runner, getting in those training runs, preparing for

14:54

race day, whatever you got going on. See if you

14:56

can identify with some of these elements.

14:59

They are key elements in a game or

15:01

in sports. The first is challenge.

15:04

One thing that makes a game fun, it's challenging.

15:06

If it's too easy, it's not fun or if the competition's

15:09

too one-sided, like when I played

15:11

cornhole the other day and I started

15:13

losing like the

15:15

first six games. The friends that I play cornhole

15:17

with, none of them are runners, but they're really

15:20

into sports like football. A lot of

15:22

us have kids who are playing sports and

15:24

the kids and the dads were talking about which sport

15:26

has the most running because

15:29

everyone hates running, right? Well,

15:31

basketball has a lot of running. Well, football practice,

15:33

they make you run a lot. And then finally I

15:35

said running has the most running. And

15:40

that's why it's hard, but maybe that's why people do

15:42

it is because it's challenging, it's

15:45

also paradoxically fun.

15:47

And sometimes the more hard it is, the

15:49

more fun it is. This is when you get really

15:52

into the psychology of a long distance runner.

15:54

I remember I was at the Kaiser Marathon

15:56

in Austria. It was in the Alps, so

15:59

elevation gain.

15:59

and the weather just turned really

16:02

nasty and we were just getting soaked and

16:04

there was sleet as I would just soak with

16:06

water and you gotta keep running to

16:08

keep warm. I just had to laugh, I just had

16:10

to smile and laugh because it was so ridiculous.

16:13

The fact that we were all out there doing that and

16:15

we paid money to do it.

16:18

And spent months for some

16:20

people training. Yeah and traveled

16:22

all the way to Austria. But

16:24

it was fun because it was miserable

16:27

and that's pretty weird.

16:29

But something's challenging, it could also

16:31

be really rewarding. Angie, I'm sure you've had

16:33

a race like that before.

16:34

Yeah and I've also been on training runs

16:36

or like you said races where I've asked myself

16:38

why I didn't choose another hobby. Because

16:41

if most people could see me they would question my sanity.

16:43

Like how can this be fun? But

16:46

somehow we know that there is magic in the misery.

16:48

It's like those very memorable experiences

16:51

even though maybe they were hard and

16:53

you're just kind of like rolling your eyes at the ridiculousness

16:56

of it is something that you remember and it really

16:58

cements it in your brain. And you like think

17:00

of it with pleasure later. For

17:03

sure. Another

17:04

way to challenge yourself outside of the race environment

17:06

is to play with speed by throwing in different

17:09

paces on some of your runs. We talked about fartlex,

17:11

speed play. Of course we don't want you to

17:13

do speed work on every run. But playing

17:15

with speed work or running hills or adding other

17:18

challenging elements into your running can

17:20

prevent boredom or add elements of fun.

17:23

I've even named hills on my running

17:25

route. There's one that I call the mother of all hills.

17:28

And it's almost like a challenge. You know, like you

17:30

against the hill. It's sort of like a

17:32

challenging playful element.

17:34

So like play, running

17:36

can be challenging but fun at the same time.

17:39

Yeah, so now you begin to understand how

17:41

people get through 100 milers. Someone

17:43

like Sally McRae who we had recently

17:45

on the show doing 200 mile ultras. One

17:49

run after the other this year in fact. And we've

17:51

talked to a lot of these ultra runners. They

17:53

seem optimistic and they

17:55

just really enjoy what they're doing.

17:57

Yeah, because you wouldn't be running 200 miles if

17:59

you did. enjoy running long distance. Like

18:02

I hope not. No. They

18:04

have the ability to just have fun and keep

18:08

smiling even through all the misery.

18:09

Yeah, that's true.

18:11

So think about that when you're out there. Embrace

18:13

the challenge. Push to the edge, you

18:16

know, safely of course, and enjoy

18:18

getting to that point where your legs are tired.

18:20

Maybe it'll take 15 miles if you're doing 20.

18:23

That last five miles or that last three

18:25

when you're running on tired legs, that's

18:27

where you're gonna find that edge and

18:30

you're embracing the challenge.

18:31

And there's even research that says that smiling

18:34

in the midst of hard things like that actually

18:36

makes it feel easier. So

18:39

you can kind of like sort of trick your body

18:41

into feeling like it's easier

18:43

than it actually is. That's

18:45

right. Okay, the second element is

18:47

progress.

18:49

Games provide feedback loops and

18:51

they titillate the reward centers of our brain.

18:53

I've

18:54

been wanting to use the word titillate on the podcast.

18:56

Glad I had an opportunity Angie. I hope

18:59

that was fun for you. It's a lot

19:00

of fun. Titillate. Video

19:03

game developers realize this that people

19:05

have to be able to make progress through a game. Collecting

19:08

points or whatever they're doing in the game,

19:10

beating the bosses in order to stay

19:12

interested. When you feel like you're not making

19:14

progress, if you're not getting a little bit better,

19:17

it can really be discouraging. So

19:19

definitely celebrate the buildup in

19:21

your marathon training. There was a time when you

19:24

probably couldn't run a mile or you couldn't run three miles

19:26

or five miles and look at you now.

19:28

That's right. You can even look at your marathon training

19:30

plan or whatever training plan you're using and

19:33

kind of gamify it. Look at it as

19:35

a way to see your progress as

19:37

you check off each training run,

19:40

you know, each rest day, whatever is on

19:42

there, you know, it can give you that sense of

19:44

progress that you are,

19:46

you know, changing yourself one day at a time.

19:48

That's

19:49

why we built this run tracker for our

19:52

virtual run folks. We have all these medals

19:54

that we can send people from a hundred miles

19:56

all the way up now to 2,500 miles. So they run the miles.

19:59

They go into the run tracker and every 10 miles,

20:02

there's like this new badge and I try

20:04

to really make it fun. Like for example, the 2000

20:06

mile medal is the great

20:08

wave off Kanagawa. Everyone's seen the

20:10

great wave. There's even a great wave emoji.

20:13

So I think there's 10 badges

20:15

leading up to the great wave. They're all puns

20:17

on the great wave. Like there's the great waiver

20:20

where people are just signing the contract.

20:23

So like when you sign

20:25

up for a race, you're basically agreeing to like

20:27

not sue even if you lose limbs or

20:29

die.

20:30

The great waiver.

20:31

You know, when you're new to running, there

20:34

are many ways to see noticeable progress in

20:36

your training, which adds to the

20:38

fun. But sometimes when you get to be a more experienced

20:40

runner, you have to be intentional about

20:43

changing things up to avoid feeling

20:45

like you're stuck in a rut. You know, so

20:47

maybe like doing a mileage tracker

20:49

that has a fun level to unlock every 10 miles,

20:51

something like that would really add to the joy. Because

20:55

if you run long enough, there's gonna be times when

20:57

you don't feel like you're progressing. You know, you're gonna hit

20:59

a plateau. And of course there's gonna be a

21:01

time when you no longer get faster.

21:03

So I think accepting that that is part of the process

21:06

is really helpful to be able to enjoy

21:08

running in the long term. Progress

21:10

can be wonderful, but if it's the only thing we're

21:13

focusing on, then it's gonna suck the joy

21:15

out of running.

21:16

The cool thing about finishing a race, it's

21:18

like completing a game. And now you have a medal

21:20

to hang on your wall. You've made progress. You've

21:22

done another marathon. Not many people do this,

21:25

but that marathon can be embedded in

21:27

an even bigger game, i.e.

21:30

a bigger goal. Like for years, Angie

21:32

was running marathons that were part of a set

21:35

of marathons. And that set was a 50 state

21:38

goal.

21:38

So like a big goal with, you

21:41

know, running a marathon in every state or half marathon

21:43

or getting to 10 or collecting

21:45

other countries, that could also be a great

21:47

way to touch the reward centers

21:49

in your brain. They get titillated by progress.

21:53

All right, the third element of fun is mastery.

21:56

Sports and games are fun when we

21:59

develop some-

21:59

competency, some levels of skill.

22:02

We'll call it mastery. It doesn't mean you're gonna

22:04

be the best in the world, but mastery,

22:06

just you are mastering elements

22:08

of a game. So running falls under

22:11

a category of play called movement

22:13

play.

22:14

There's other categories, like object

22:16

play where you're throwing a ball.

22:18

But movement play is fun because

22:20

we truly find joy in using and mastering

22:23

complex body dynamics. There's a certain

22:25

coordination needed when you run and

22:27

running on trails is different in running

22:29

on roads. Speed sessions

22:31

are different than going out and doing heart

22:33

rate training or running easy. So you

22:35

get to master all these little nuances

22:38

in running.

22:39

Yeah, that's right. I think actually running could fit

22:41

into several of the play categories. There's

22:43

social play, if you do group runs

22:45

or races are part of your running, of course that's

22:47

social. And there's

22:49

definitely an element of celebration,

22:52

celebratory play involved

22:54

in running. And like you said, by

22:56

mastery we don't mean that you're going to reach

22:59

some level of perfection. Sometimes

23:02

mastery means recognizing that you'll

23:04

probably never be where you want to be physically

23:07

and accepting that. It's

23:09

like mastering your mindset. You

23:11

can look at running as something that brings joy and

23:13

change to your life. It makes

23:15

me think of the book, It's Great to Suck at

23:17

Something by Karen Rinaldi. I really

23:19

enjoyed reading that book. And she says, quote,

23:22

when was the last time you tried something new?

23:24

Something that won't make you more productive, won't

23:27

make you more money or check anything off your

23:29

to-do list. Odds are not

23:31

recently. We're living in a time of aspirational

23:34

psychosis. We humble brag about

23:36

how hard we work, we prioritize productivity

23:38

over play, we clamor for likes on social

23:41

media and are told to not accept failure

23:43

as an option. As a result, we're

23:45

more anxious and depressed than ever. And

23:48

Karen, her thing that she sucked

23:50

at was surfing. So she dedicated 17

23:54

plus years of her life to surfing without

23:56

ever becoming good at it, according to her.

23:59

I'm sure she's way better.

23:59

than I would be. 17 years and she never

24:02

got up on the board.

24:02

No, that's not true. She goes

24:05

on to talk about how she managed to find

24:07

meaning and joy in the resilience that it

24:09

takes to continue sucking

24:11

at something rewires our brain in positive

24:14

ways and helps cultivate grit,

24:16

practice patience and humility, and

24:18

ultimately experience freedom. Freedom

24:21

to pursue the feudal because the freedom

24:23

to suck without caring is revelatory.

24:26

And so having the freedom to not be great

24:28

at something like running, it's

24:30

constantly challenging us. We're dealing with

24:32

changes

24:32

in our body, changes in our environment.

24:35

There's always something that's changing because that's

24:37

the nature of life. And the

24:39

fourth element is exploration.

24:41

This can mean exploring new streets

24:43

in your town or city or getting

24:45

out to the trails, maybe exploring

24:48

trails that you've never been on before. This

24:51

may include counting how many bunnies you see. There's

24:53

a lady named Debbie in the social distancing

24:55

run group that takes a picture of bunnies

24:57

on her run or counts how many she sees. That's fun

25:00

for her. Or deciding which tree

25:02

is your favorite along your running route. I typically do

25:04

that during the fall, like the fall foliage.

25:06

I'm like, oh, this is my favorite tree. And you

25:08

know, you just kind of can catalog the changing

25:10

seasons as you run. Some

25:12

people explore by trying to run all the streets

25:15

in their town. And you know, Trevor,

25:17

you mentioned when I was working on my 50 state marathon

25:19

goal, we really had to be intentional about

25:21

where we traveled. And we

25:23

got to see and experience places we probably

25:26

wouldn't have traveled to otherwise through

25:28

running. So it was really special. And running

25:31

can even take you to different countries. That's one of the things

25:33

you love, Trevor, you get to experience

25:35

interesting scenery, cultures, people

25:37

and cuisine, you know, that you wouldn't be there

25:40

otherwise. Yeah,

25:40

I definitely love me some run

25:42

cations. That's sort of one of my big

25:45

goals and the way that I'm making progress and

25:47

having fun with my health and fitness is I'm

25:49

going to keep running marathons in cool

25:51

places that I want to go to.

25:53

And even if you're traveling for work,

25:55

you know, having a regular running routine can

25:57

help you kind of get out of the box and

25:59

explore.

25:59

other areas, you know, explore routes that

26:02

local runners like to run or, you know, just

26:05

find someplace to get out and get some exercise

26:08

can be really helpful to expanding your

26:10

exploration of the world.

26:11

All right, the fifth element is connection.

26:14

Running is also fun because it brings people

26:17

together and we found runners to

26:19

be just really cool people. So

26:21

connecting with a local group or an online

26:23

group, you'll probably find that to be one of the most enjoyable

26:26

aspects of being a long distance runner.

26:28

Yeah, that's right. Running is ultimately something we

26:31

do for ourselves. But like you mentioned, Trevor,

26:33

connecting with others makes the experience

26:35

much richer. And connecting with others through

26:37

running can be a great way to develop new friendships

26:40

or strengthen existing ones. Maybe

26:42

that's through a running group that you have

26:44

gotten involved with locally. Maybe

26:47

it's a group run that you've gone on. I've

26:49

made friends before by going on like

26:51

a group trail run through our local

26:53

running store. And you know, you can

26:56

find someone maybe that you really enjoy spending time

26:58

with that makes

26:58

running more fun and helps

27:01

keep you accountable to your goals.

27:02

Yeah, speaking of connection, everyone should

27:05

come to an MTA meetup at some point

27:07

in your life. They're a lot

27:09

of fun. We're going to have two coming

27:11

up. We've got the Boulderthon in

27:13

Boulder, Colorado will be there. And

27:16

then the Richmond Marathon in Richmond,

27:18

Virginia. And then next year, Tokyo

27:20

Marathon. Angie and I are running that for

27:22

the charity Room to Read.

27:24

Really excited about that.

27:26

And then we're like we mentioned on our last episode,

27:28

putting together this hike around Mount

27:30

Blanc in France. So trying

27:32

hard to make that a reality because and

27:35

you talk about all of the element for me anyway,

27:37

all of the elements that we've went over exploration,

27:40

progress and challenge and connection.

27:42

All of that is built in to trail

27:45

running and hiking around Mount Blanc in

27:47

the Alps. I mean, it's definitely there's gonna be connection

27:49

because we're all gonna hang out together. That's right. There's

27:51

definitely gonna be exploration. It's one of the most beautiful

27:53

places on earth. It's gonna be challenging.

27:56

Those elevation gains and losses are

27:58

really tough. That's how I want to.

27:59

It's been my retirement, Angie, just like hiking around

28:02

mountains. But you're

28:04

not waiting for retirement, right? You're building

28:06

in play into your daily life.

28:08

Yeah. And I want to stay healthy

28:10

enough to be able to keep playing.

28:13

So that's why smooth transition

28:15

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28:18

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28:20

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28:22

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28:25

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28:27

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28:30

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28:32

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29:29

All right. So number six, we're

29:31

talking about elements of fun that

29:33

can be built into your running and marathon

29:36

training. We've talked about challenge, progress,

29:38

mastery, exploration, and

29:41

connection. Number six is competition.

29:44

It's fun to strive for a PR. It's

29:46

fun to be competitive with yourself, to

29:48

compete in your age group. What's

29:50

cool about marathon training is you can

29:53

kind of a la carte pick how you want to be

29:55

competitive, what elements work for you. If

29:57

you don't care about trying to qualify for

29:59

Boston

29:59

and you know, cause that's pretty competitive to try to get in something

30:02

like that or New York City. You can compete

30:04

against the course. You can compete against

30:06

yourself. Even your local running area,

30:09

Angie talked about we have this hill. It's called the mother

30:11

of all hills. We like to compete against

30:13

that hill. Most of the time that hill

30:16

kicks my ass, but I'm happy for

30:18

the competition.

30:19

That's right. There are challenges that you

30:21

can do on platforms like Strava where you can

30:23

get crowns for segments or become

30:25

local legends. Sadly, I

30:27

just learned that I am no longer the local legend

30:30

on some segments in Italy that

30:32

I got while I was there last summer. Well,

30:35

competition

30:35

is pretty fierce in there. I

30:36

demand to go back and become the local legend

30:38

again. I'll take you. I'm

30:41

just kidding. But maybe it means a race or

30:43

a challenge that sparks your motivation and

30:45

helps you kick it into a new gear. And

30:48

like Trevor has pointed out, competition doesn't have

30:50

to mean speed. Maybe it sounds fun to

30:52

do a running streak challenge. Like runners world

30:54

does one through the holidays. Or you

30:56

can compete with yourself when it comes to your heart

30:58

rate, keeping it in the correct zone or

31:00

even staying consistent with your strength training.

31:03

There is many ways to compete against

31:06

your alarm clock.

31:06

Are you gonna hit the snooze button in the morning?

31:09

Oh yeah, we haven't even talked about strength training. Angie,

31:11

something that you love. You were just

31:13

talking about how you just got a new squat

31:16

record for yourself.

31:17

Yes, I've been working, kind of competing

31:19

against myself and trying to progress

31:22

in my strength training. And yeah, I was

31:24

just able to squat 165 for four sets, which

31:28

I don't usually go for my max squat. Maybe I

31:30

could do more if I was just doing a single rep.

31:33

But I'm constantly trying

31:35

to improve in the area of strength training because I

31:37

know it helps me in every area of life. So

31:40

there's multiple sub areas under running

31:42

where you can compete with yourself and

31:44

try to get better and change

31:46

it up and make

31:47

it fun. Hey, if you're doing your

31:49

first marathon, you can try to beat Oprah.

31:51

Her time was like what, 420 something. Unfortunately,

31:55

I did not beat her at my first marathon.

31:57

I finished in like 430,

31:59

I think but many people try to beat

32:02

Trevor's first time. Yeah,

32:04

you can try to beat me for 31 I doubt

32:07

you can do it though. I mean, that's a great time And

32:11

Finally number seven

32:12

how to find fun in your long-distance running

32:15

the seventh element is Reward if

32:17

you want to gamify something you got to build

32:19

rewards into it, right? There's a good

32:21

reason why runners love getting medals

32:23

and often races will do like metal

32:25

sets You know collect them all run all the years

32:28

or because if that's rewarding

32:30

to our human brains like we're

32:32

squirrels

32:34

Yeah, it's not like we need them I mean They just sit

32:36

on the wall or in a box But it's

32:38

fun to get that and my opinion the

32:40

more clever and interesting the metal the more

32:43

fun it is That's why I hate getting like a dumb

32:45

small metal at a marathon

32:48

Or

32:50

no no metal at all that's like your worst pet

32:52

peeve. Oh, yeah

32:54

While we're on the subject of medals though Angie Let

32:56

me mention some races that I think do a really

32:59

cool metal Alright

33:00

because I'm a connoisseur of fine

33:02

running metals. Yes you are And

33:04

we also you know have ones that we give out

33:06

for our Distance challenges that I think

33:08

are brilliant and I've been told that by many many

33:11

people

33:12

They are very well

33:14

designed yes,

33:15

but here's some cool ones the first one's

33:17

over the top and that's the Little Rock marathon They

33:20

just keep getting bigger and bigger and so now they're

33:22

like the size of a plate and they're always

33:24

like have a theme Another really fun

33:26

one I'm a big sucker for any kind

33:28

of skull and bones and day of the dead thing

33:31

So the Tupelo marathon always

33:33

has like this skull on it and

33:35

it says trample the weak hurtle the dead

33:38

Yeah, that was one of your favorite races. At

33:40

least the bling was all the bling is so

33:42

cool Then there's the iconic unicorn

33:45

from the Boston marathon Everyone wants to have that

33:47

or the wine glass marathon in corny, New

33:49

York where they have the corny

33:52

glass They do a specialized glass

33:54

metal every year. Yeah

33:56

rock and roll series for

33:58

their New Orleans marathons

33:59

instead of a ribbon, they have beads,

34:02

like a bead necklace, and then they quit

34:04

doing that for some reason. Wow, that was really

34:07

dumb.

34:07

I know, that was, yeah. You're

34:10

in New Orleans and it's around Mardi Gras time,

34:12

so to have a medal hanging on beads,

34:15

that was just perfect. Enough metal talking,

34:17

I should be wanting to say.

34:18

Well, I was thinking another post-long

34:20

run or race reward is special food

34:22

or drinks, and obviously, you should never get

34:24

into the mentality that you have to try to earn your

34:26

calories. Eating well is part

34:28

of treating your body with respect, but we all know

34:31

how certain foods and drinks taste extra

34:33

good after a tough workout. It kind of

34:35

reminds me of the Courtney DeWalter shirt that says

34:38

single track and nachos. We

34:40

all have that one thing or maybe many things

34:42

that just hit the spot. So Trevor,

34:45

if you had to have a shirt that said single

34:47

track

34:48

and what would it be for you,

34:50

like fill in the blank. What I took during

34:52

my 50K, at the Continental

34:55

Divide 50K in Montana, I

34:57

took Pop-Tarts.

34:58

Yeah, there you go. It'd

35:00

been a long time since I had a Pop-Tart, so man,

35:02

yeah, that tasted so good after about 20

35:05

miles. So yeah, single track

35:07

and Pop-Tarts,

35:08

but nachos, I would probably take over Pop-Tarts.

35:10

I was gonna say for you single track

35:13

and beer, but that would be more like a post-race

35:15

celebration thing. I mean, yeah,

35:17

I'll drink beer on any

35:19

kind of track. Okay. Train

35:22

track. No,

35:24

that's a little dangerous.

35:25

So besides

35:27

metals, it can be fun to motivate ourselves also

35:30

with new running gear and accessories.

35:32

Of course, we don't need new stuff to

35:34

make running fun, but shoes obviously

35:36

wear out. You need to buy new pairs and

35:39

runners just get a certain joy out of a new pair of trainers.

35:42

There's so many different colors you can get nowadays in

35:45

the ones that work for your feet. It can be really

35:47

fun. You'll see some people who

35:49

wear costumes during their races and

35:52

that's the way to bring in an element

35:54

of fun, like the Disney

35:55

races. Many people dress up

35:57

for their races and that it's like.

35:59

being an adult and getting to play and dress

36:02

up in costumes.

36:02

I should have mentioned them for the medals. They

36:05

got the medal game down. That's true.

36:07

They give you like freaking 16 medals and

36:10

they definitely have that gamified.

36:11

That's right. Yeah, they really added that

36:14

fun play because of course you

36:16

go to Disney because it's the happiest place on earth,

36:18

right? For some people. Not

36:21

the last time I was there. Yeah, if

36:23

you're gonna go, don't go over Christmas break. We

36:25

waited in line basically all

36:28

day and I think even for the Peter

36:30

Pan ride, the line was two and a half

36:32

hours long.

36:33

Peter Pan rides nothing to write home about.

36:35

I was gonna say, don't go in July

36:37

when it's extremely hot and

36:40

your family is all cranky and thirsty. Is

36:44

that when we win? We're not talking from personal

36:46

experience or anything, are we? Oh, that's right. Anyway,

36:49

on to the fun. You know, also

36:51

add that it's important to simply view moving

36:54

your body as a reward in and of itself.

36:57

It's something that most of us take for granted until

36:59

we're injured or we're reminded that other people

37:01

deal with huge physical challenges. So

37:04

there are times when it's important

37:05

to walk, hike, run, or

37:07

ride simply for the joy of movement. And

37:10

I think during those times, it's important not

37:12

to worry about your training stats or posting

37:15

about it online. You know, simply try to be present

37:17

in your body and awake to your surroundings.

37:20

And that can be a form of meditation and intensely

37:22

rewarding just by doing things

37:25

for the sake of movement.

37:26

All right, so the seven elements of play

37:29

to help you focus on the fun in your running

37:31

is challenge, progress, mastery,

37:34

exploration, connection, competition,

37:36

and reward. Hope you identify with

37:39

some or all of those points and that encourages

37:41

you to just keep playing.

37:43

So Angie, what are you playing around with right now?

37:46

Doing a Tough Mudder soon.

37:47

Yes, I'm trying to think too much about it. Some

37:50

of the obstacles look like they could

37:52

be shocking, challenging.

37:56

It's crazy because I keep seeing their

37:58

ads on Facebook because I visited

37:59

did their website one time, and so boom, I see

38:02

all their ads. They took the most

38:04

miserable parts of the course, like when people

38:06

are crawling through mud getting shocked, and

38:08

that's what they're leading with in their marketing. And

38:10

thinking about that, and thinking about what you guys are gonna do,

38:13

because you're running this with other ladies, what

38:15

elements of fun emerge that

38:17

we've talked about?

38:18

Yeah, there's definitely gonna be several elements,

38:21

the connection, the challenge, I'm

38:23

sure the reward, for

38:25

having finished. But there's

38:27

gonna be a lot of laughter too, because it's

38:29

important to be able to not take ourselves too seriously,

38:33

and to be able to just laugh at ourselves.

38:35

And I'm sure there's gonna be a lot of that laughing

38:37

at each other and ourselves. Yeah.

38:39

Oh, that's gonna be great.

38:42

And hey, if you're training for something, or even if

38:44

you're in maintenance mode, we created

38:46

Academy membership, and also our coaching

38:49

services to help you gain mastery

38:51

in your running, and have more fun doing

38:53

it. Because you know, it's fun to see

38:55

progress, and it's fun to connect with other

38:58

runners from around the world, so yeah, I'd

39:00

love to have you join us. Find out more on

39:02

our website, or send us a question, we

39:04

have contact form over there. Find that at

39:06

marathontrainingacademy.com. That's

39:08

it for this episode, until next time, always

39:11

remember, you have what it takes to run a marathon

39:13

and change your life.

39:15

Well on my way, well on my way,

39:17

well on my way. Hey, hey, now

39:19

that I'm well on my way, well on

39:21

my way, well on my way, well

39:24

on my way.