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This. Is Marathon Training Academy

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Episode Four Hundred And Thirty Six.

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problem hello and welcome to the Marathon

1:24

Training Academy Podcast! Were in power and

1:26

inspire you to run a marathon and

1:28

change your life. I'm Trevor. And I'm

1:31

Angie. In this episode we speak

1:33

with ultra runner Dave Proctor who ran

1:35

across Canada and sixty seven days averaging

1:37

one hundred and five point three kilometers

1:39

per day. That sixty five point four

1:42

miles his new book is called on

1:44

tethered the comeback story of one of

1:46

the longest fast as runs in history.

1:49

And. Just reminder. As an Academy member,

1:51

you get access to all of our

1:53

interviews, podcast, episode, train plans, and more.

1:56

Find that I join Honey! Visit Marathon

1:58

Training academy.com. All

2:00

right, so here we are at the end of January.

2:02

It's cold and miserable most days

2:04

where we live, but we're training for the Tokyo

2:06

Marathon. Angie and I are both running it, or

2:08

I'm gonna be running part of it. I'll probably

2:11

be walking part of it. Same here.

2:13

So the struggle is real if you're out

2:16

there training in the winter and things are

2:18

not going ideally. You know, it happens, especially

2:20

if you run enough marathons. We feel you

2:22

out there. We hope that this interview will

2:24

give you a good mental boost. Dave

2:26

is a fun guy to talk to.

2:28

His mindset is something we can all learn

2:31

from, even if you never plan on running as far as

2:33

he did. So we'll get into that in just one moment.

2:35

Here's the headline I saw come across

2:37

Runner's World Instagram. It said, six

2:39

people arrested for stealing gold medals at

2:42

the Mumbai Marathon. And gold is in

2:44

quotes. Yeah, gold. Because they're not really

2:46

made of gold. The article says, over

2:48

the weekend, six were arrested after stealing

2:51

2,200 finishers medals because

2:54

the thieves believed that they were actual gold. The

2:58

crew pilfered the medals

3:00

from boxes scattered across various tents at

3:02

the Mumbai Marathon. Of course, the article

3:04

says, not even Olympic gold medals are

3:06

made of solid gold. And

3:08

Olympic gold medal is mainly composed of silver,

3:11

which is then plated with at least six

3:13

grams of actual gold. So the 2,200 stolen

3:15

medals were said to be worth around 1,700

3:18

bucks, which is about the value of

3:21

four actual gold medals. Of

3:23

course, they are of value to the runners who would

3:25

like to receive them once they cross the finish line.

3:27

So I'm sure if people didn't receive

3:29

medals, they felt doubly robbed. It

3:32

made me think about all the medals that we

3:34

have from our various races. The marathon

3:36

medals are on the wall in our basement where our

3:38

treadmill is. Half marathon medals, mine are in a box.

3:40

I don't know where yours are. In a

3:42

drawer somewhere, I think. Well, just

3:44

think how expensive race registrations would be

3:47

if the medals were actually solid gold that

3:49

we were getting. I know. So

3:52

I Thought it was kind of a funny article.

3:54

But Then I was reading the comment section and

3:57

people were kind of mad that Runner's World brought

3:59

it. The to the Mumbai Marathon.

4:01

The Mumbai Marathon is the largest race

4:03

in Asia with fifty five thousand, two

4:06

hundred twelve participants. Last year obviously have

4:08

a half and a ten K. I'm

4:10

not sure how the numbers breakdown for

4:12

each event. But this. Race

4:15

has been gone since oh for

4:17

and it's been instrumental in promoting

4:19

a growing culture of running in

4:21

India. Yeah, that's fantastic. Well

4:23

speaking of marathons and half marathons,

4:25

we get some people we wanna

4:27

send out a congrats to academy

4:29

member named David. He just ran

4:31

the first half marathon. Yeah,

4:33

he says I just completed my first half

4:35

marathon. The goal with one fifty in my

4:38

stretch goal was one forty five and I

4:40

finished in one forty six. Nice! I joined

4:42

Mp right before Christmas and was already running

4:44

the eighty Twenty Nine plans. I have another

4:47

half next month and with mainly using this

4:49

race to get a feel for the run

4:51

and pace for future race plans, I intend

4:53

to dive into the empty training fans. This

4:56

comes from an in the social distancing

4:58

run group. She says the day before

5:00

yesterday was my retirement party and I

5:03

just celebrated sixty seven years on earth

5:05

let a party that was today. I

5:07

reached my twenty five hundred mile metal

5:10

thinks Angie and Trevor for all the

5:12

fantastic medals and challenges. Lysis Fun! That's

5:14

then my motto for many years. That.

5:17

Is of course the metal we

5:19

designed inspired by the Dutch graphic

5:21

artist Mc Escher. not made of

5:23

real goal by the way. But

5:27

still really cool book and grass

5:29

and on retiring that's epic And

5:31

since senior twenty five Hundred Mile

5:33

Challenge and his from Finland I

5:35

believe so always cool. See the

5:37

global nature of running in the

5:39

people in this group. Whittlesea Force.

5:42

this comes from kelly in the academy

5:44

she says i attempted something this morning

5:46

that i was reluctant to tell anyone

5:48

about beforehand because i wasn't sure i

5:50

would make it to the starting line

5:52

i started a marathon at four thirty

5:54

am to qualify for marathon maniacs since

5:56

i did the houston marathon two weeks

5:58

ago because I'm a slower runner, the

6:00

early start allowed me to have extra

6:03

time out on the course. I

6:05

love that the marathon was not overpacked

6:07

and that everyone was so friendly. I'm

6:09

now qualified to be a marathon maniac.

6:12

Alright, you have to get your t-shirt. She was

6:14

saying that at the finish line, she

6:16

saw an older lady wearing a marathon

6:18

maniacs jacket and you

6:21

know was asking her about her races and apparently

6:23

the lady was completing her 281st marathon and her

6:25

goal is to get to I think 300 marathons

6:27

before age 70. So

6:33

there's maniacs and then there's maniacs. There's

6:36

Kelly's well on her way. And finally, this

6:38

is from Mike. He sent us a message

6:40

on Instagram. He's listening to the podcast and

6:43

finished his first marathon, the Clearwater Marathon in

6:45

Florida. He said, well today's the day. I

6:47

just want to thank you guys for doing

6:49

what you do. I've listened to just about

6:51

every episode that's available on Spotify and it

6:53

has been a large part of what has

6:55

been motivating me and educating me on this

6:57

journey. And then he says off to the

6:59

pain cave. Indeed.

7:03

And yeah, he finished his first marathon and just

7:05

like everyone does when they finish their first one,

7:07

he had the thought, I bet I can do

7:09

this faster next time. That's

7:11

right. And speaking of marathons, we are

7:13

so happy to have the Las Vegas

7:15

Marathon as a sponsor of the podcast.

7:17

The inaugural Las Vegas Marathon will be

7:19

November 3rd, 2024. And

7:22

they'll also have a half and a

7:25

seven mile, actually 7.02 mile

7:27

race inspired by the area code

7:29

of Las Vegas. And this is going to be

7:32

an iconic race. It's going to showcase

7:34

the best that Las Vegas has to

7:36

offer. The Red Rock Canyons, the eclectic

7:39

18B Arts District, the Strip, of course.

7:42

Fremont Street is where the finish line is.

7:44

So Vegas, man, so much to see and

7:46

do there. And a marathon is a great

7:48

way to experience it. So you can etch

7:51

your name on the archives of running history

7:53

and become a member of the Las Vegas

7:55

Marathon's inaugural group of finishers. November 3rd, it's

7:57

got plenty of time to train. Line

8:00

up now and then by September you'll remember that you

8:02

signed up and then you can start training, right? If

8:05

they're on the Trevor training schedule, that is. They

8:09

also offer a generous withdrawal and deferral policy

8:11

in case that you forget you signed up.

8:15

The Las Vegas Marathon is a Brooksea

8:17

race production. It's the same company that

8:20

produces Revel Race Series, the Mesa Marathon

8:22

and the Portland Marathon. Yeah, these

8:24

people are great. I'm really excited about how

8:26

they've grown and I know Las Vegas Marathon

8:29

is gonna be very well organized. So you

8:31

can register at vegismarathon.com, use the code MTA

8:33

for $15 off. vegasmarathon.com,

8:36

15 bucks off with

8:38

the code MTA. All

8:41

right, so let's jump into our conversation with Dave Proctor.

8:43

Angie, what can you tell us about Dave Proctor? Well,

8:46

Dave comes from a small town

8:48

in Alberta, Canada. In his professional

8:50

life, he's a massage therapist and

8:52

has three children and he really

8:54

has become one of Canada's foremost

8:56

ultra marathoners. He's been studying world

8:58

records for about 17 years, including

9:01

the 24 hour, 72 hour Canadian records. In

9:05

the summer of 2022, at the age of 41, Dave

9:08

etched his name in history. He shattered

9:10

the Trans Canada Speed Running Record, which

9:12

had stood for 31 years by conquering

9:14

the 7,159 kilometers from St. John, Newfoundland to

9:19

Victoria, British Columbia. He covered

9:21

an average of 105.3 kilometers per day and

9:26

he completed this in just 67 days, 10 hours

9:29

and 27 minutes, solidifying his place as

9:31

one of the greatest ultra runners in

9:34

Canadian history. Yeah, his book is

9:36

called Untethered. I think when we talked to

9:38

him last, he kind of hinted that he

9:40

had a book coming out, so he sent

9:42

us a copy. It's an interesting read and

9:44

was really enjoyable to follow along the journey

9:46

and man, he really goes into the pain

9:48

cave and doesn't hold back. I

9:50

mean, he just shares the ups and downs,

9:52

the ugliness and the beauty and everything that's

9:54

involved and pushing your body that much every

9:57

day and also the support crew that he

9:59

needed to pull. This off. So

10:01

without further ado, here's our conversation with

10:03

Day Proctor, author of the book on

10:05

Tethered. Hey,

10:17

we're on the podcast now with the proctor

10:19

author the book on Tethered David Three to

10:21

have you back on the into a podcast

10:23

The I Think traveling weekend guys. We

10:26

talk to you last time it was

10:28

just two weeks after you finish steer

10:30

Trans Canadian World Record Ryan and of

10:32

course that was really interesting for us

10:34

to be able to read the book

10:36

kind of here and the entire blow

10:38

by blow plus your perspective now like

10:40

a year and a half after you

10:42

finished which I'm sure you know has

10:44

seen since we talk to you last

10:46

time. so we're really excited about talking

10:48

to you and digging into this. Now

10:51

and thank you. And yeah, running across the country

10:53

was hard of course but I'd consider writing this

10:55

book to be even harder for it has going

10:58

to ask you a star. You think about it.

11:00

If I asked to go to go run a

11:02

marathon, you know which I could do that. For.

11:05

Said you know, go play the guitar

11:07

and in do those solo of November

11:10

Rain. He will address I don't

11:12

know how to do that on play the guitar

11:14

but so we are not a writer your I

11:16

can I have to figure it out along the

11:18

way and it was scary been. I'm super super

11:20

happy with product and all the reviews that we're

11:22

getting our back. I'm so happy to kind of

11:24

your be of the show the story. I

11:27

think it really gives a great

11:29

visceral look at what it takes

11:31

physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, really to

11:33

undertake such a huge endeavor like

11:35

it was. Yes, it was really

11:37

gritty, which I think as powerful.

11:39

As and you haven't read a lot

11:42

of books about running and memoirs like

11:44

this. I think it's hard to put

11:46

people in the moment and make them

11:48

feel the suffering, right? But I was.

11:50

I'm definitely feeling. it's summer Recess when

11:52

I realize you're great. Yeah, that now

11:55

is my hope. That was my hope.

11:57

You're ultimately on. Tethered is is a

11:59

walk through. a day by day blow of

12:01

all of the things that would happen in a 4,500

12:03

mile run. I

12:07

know that that sounds so stupid even to say that, but

12:10

not only the day by day happenings,

12:12

but also these macro and micro

12:14

concepts that you kind of bring

12:16

into something like this, like the

12:18

sports imagery and the doubt

12:21

within and, you know, kind of even the

12:23

mental management of the voices in your head

12:26

when you enter into a province and you're like, Oh my

12:28

goodness, I'm going to be here for another 20 days. How

12:30

do I, how do I manage that? And

12:33

so I try to give a lot of kind

12:35

of tricks and tips that I've picked up over

12:37

the last two decades of ultra marathoning to the

12:39

audience, because, Hey, I would have loved to have

12:42

read this before enduring that.

12:45

Would you have done it though, if you'd read your own book? Probably

12:49

not. And so some people might say, Hey,

12:51

yeah, you're trying to scare people away from,

12:53

from doing something like this. And yeah,

12:56

you convinced me not to try it, Dave. Yeah.

12:58

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely.

13:01

Well, yeah. And you know, I

13:04

can even say now after being

13:06

done and now written a book about

13:08

it, there's a saying that says your

13:10

lows will be your highs. Right.

13:12

And, you know, sometimes when you're

13:14

reading the book and you're like, whoa, okay, this, this

13:16

is getting ugly. Um, those now

13:18

I look back as my highs. You're

13:20

like, wow, that was cool. It was,

13:22

yeah, I'm enduring comfort all the time

13:25

here now. But sometimes when you're having

13:27

like true discomfort, when you're in the

13:29

middle of nowhere and it's either the

13:31

weather or injury or whatever it

13:34

is, you look back upon it

13:36

now and those were your highs. It's pretty cool.

13:39

I remember you saying during our last

13:41

conversation that comforts were very few out

13:43

there that, you know, getting like a

13:45

good cinnamon roll from like a small

13:47

town bakery was just like, you know, fed

13:49

your soul and your body kind of. Yeah,

13:52

absolutely. What's really kind of cool about

13:54

writing a book about this too is

13:57

I had those feelings, but circling back.

14:00

and kind of doing it in an artistic

14:02

way, like writing a book, it starts making

14:04

sense of a lot of the things that

14:06

you're feeling and ideas and behaviors and

14:09

actions that you took, and kind of

14:11

creates a bit of a loop, right?

14:13

And so, you know, you're bringing up

14:15

energy about the comfort. Yeah,

14:17

it's absolutely true. There's that saying, you

14:19

know, desire makes slaves out

14:21

of kings, whereas patience and discipline makes kings

14:23

out of slaves. And,

14:25

you know, we desire so heavily

14:28

the comforts of the world, but

14:31

ultimately that makes us a

14:33

slave to those comforts, whereas

14:35

reading between the pages of

14:37

Untethered, you can kind of

14:39

see, I don't know, I kind of was

14:41

a king out there. I felt like

14:43

I was taking something. I felt like I

14:45

was living my best life.

14:47

I know that sounds so cliche, but

14:49

I kind of was. I

14:52

remember you saying that you've had to

14:54

put things into a vault because, you

14:56

know, almost like everything else had to

14:58

fall away. You could only control your

15:01

next steps, what you were eating, like how you're

15:03

taking care of your body, like all those other

15:05

kind of pressures, the things in

15:08

life that we, you know, being on hold

15:10

with customer service, like all those things had

15:12

to go away and you had to like

15:14

just put yourself in the moment. Including

15:17

your foot, which would fall

15:19

away. That wasn't allowed in the vault

15:21

when you're out there running. Right, right.

15:23

But you had to open up that vault

15:26

at night because you can't disregard it always,

15:28

right? You have to open it up at

15:30

times, right? So there's times to be, you

15:32

know, processing things emotionally and feeling your feelings.

15:35

I remember you were really good about pointing

15:37

that out, but then basically it was your

15:39

job to run and to set

15:41

this record. You had to

15:44

be like so in the moment when you were

15:46

out on the road, how much did you have

15:48

to rely on the memory of other people, like

15:50

your crew members, your

15:53

crew chief, Lana Ray? Like how much did

15:55

you have to ask them questions about their

15:57

impressions to include in the book? You

15:59

know, number one. I dictated along the

16:01

way. So at about 95 or 100

16:04

kilometres into every run, every

16:06

day's run, you know, about 60 miles in, I would

16:08

speak into my phone. But then, you

16:10

know, the most amazing thing too was

16:12

that when you end up printing off

16:14

all that, you know, that journal and

16:16

reading it, it lays out this incredible

16:18

groundwork. Like you remember every little specific

16:20

thing and that kind of brings you

16:22

back. Then further, yeah,

16:25

I sat down with all my crew members

16:27

and kind of went over because it wasn't

16:30

necessarily my point of view that I was wanting

16:32

to get across as well too. It was also

16:34

my crew members point of view because as

16:37

I was running, they were parked up ahead on

16:39

the side of the road awaiting me. I

16:42

had a recollection of what I said and how

16:44

I acted, but ultimately they played

16:46

such a major role because they saw it

16:48

and they were like, well no, not necessarily

16:50

this because you were doing that or you

16:52

said this or you responded in this way.

16:56

And it's really kind of cool to then

16:58

take all those influences and

17:00

come up with kind of a real storyline.

17:03

Furthermore, there will be a documentary that's going

17:05

to be coming out here in the next

17:07

many months. There was a documentary

17:10

film crew that was following me along and

17:12

I haven't seen anything. So

17:15

it's an independent film. I don't know how she's gonna portray

17:17

me if I'm gonna be like moody

17:19

or bossy or I'm

17:21

gonna be unattractive. I'll tell you that. I

17:24

didn't shave for like two months and stuff but

17:28

I think it was accurate based upon

17:30

the way that I recollected all of

17:32

the memories. I thought it

17:34

was interesting. There's one chapter contributed by

17:36

Lana Ray, your crew

17:38

chief and girlfriend. And

17:41

I think this was about the time you'd already run all

17:43

the way across the country. You were in Alberta and

17:45

she met up with you again and you

17:47

were just a skeleton of yourself, right? You've

17:50

been out on the road so long and

17:52

we're so weathered and leathery and had lost

17:54

so much weight and gristly and she described

17:56

just your appearance and how long it would

17:59

take you to walk like from the bed

18:01

to the bathroom after running 105 kilometers or

18:03

108 kilometers. Totally. That

18:06

was an interesting chapter to like get that other

18:08

perspective and be like, oh wow, yeah, this guy

18:10

is really, he's really rough shaped out there. Oh

18:13

yeah, no doubt. I think it's the best chapter of

18:15

the entire book because

18:18

it's honest. It paints

18:20

the other side of the picture. You

18:22

know, she's even said, you know, yeah, don't

18:24

believe everything he said when he left out

18:26

of the vehicle. No, it took me this

18:28

long in order to get out and you

18:30

know, and I think what she said was

18:32

the man that she left in Ontario was

18:34

a very different man. Now he

18:37

was a lot leaner. I think she said

18:39

my I look like a free Q-tip. I

18:41

wish it's, yeah, that's the most complimentary

18:43

thing a woman can say about a

18:45

guy, you know, it's like hugging a

18:48

sack of sucking poles. I think I

18:50

think she said that, you know, hey,

18:52

that makes me feel pretty sexy, you

18:54

know. Yeah, but

18:56

I think it's a brilliant chapter

18:58

because it gives perspective and yeah,

19:01

I think it's the ultimate perspective because she was

19:03

there living it from a very different point of

19:05

view. The reason why I kind of

19:07

did that and I asked her to write the chapter was

19:11

Scott Juric's book, North, his wife, Jenny,

19:13

ended up going back and forth and

19:15

they kept kind of doing chapters back

19:17

and forth and I thought that was

19:19

such an exceptional way to

19:21

tell the story and I got

19:24

so much out of it and I know a lot of other people did

19:26

too. Definitely. I got to meet

19:28

Scott last year. He's a cool guy

19:30

in person and I don't know if you heard

19:32

but Mike Wardian, who's also mentioned in the book,

19:34

he's going to try an Appalachian Trail record this

19:37

year. Yeah, we saw that coming.

19:39

Yeah, like I think that he really enjoyed

19:41

the run across America and the kind of

19:43

these multi-week runs but yeah, totally saw that

19:45

coming. Like, you know, the guy doesn't have

19:47

an end. He's

19:49

eager and interested. Oh, he's

19:52

awesome. So I'm so

19:54

excited for him to make a go with that. Another

19:57

inspiring ultra runner we've had on

19:59

the podcast. I wonder if you maybe you

20:01

could share some thoughts about is Pete Kostelnik. Oh,

20:03

yeah. So we talked to Pete right after

20:05

he ran from Alaska to

20:07

Florida. Yeah. What are your thoughts on

20:10

on what Pete has done? Oh,

20:12

you know, I think we hope we

20:14

I think we need an entire hour

20:16

long podcast to talk about because like

20:18

I there's a saying that says you

20:20

should never meet your heroes because we

20:22

lift them up to be something that

20:25

really they're not. That's not true. When

20:27

I met Pete and Pete now and I are

20:29

great friends, which yeah, his

20:31

trans American speed record 42 days.

20:34

It's it's the greatest record in

20:36

the world. I think he's incredible. Why would

20:38

you say that that he believed that record

20:41

is the greatest? I

20:43

think that, you know, he traveled in

20:45

well, I'm a Canadian. So in kilometers,

20:47

115 kilometers a day for 42

20:50

days in a row, you know, that

20:52

mileage of that many kilometers a day

20:54

or miles a day is astounding,

20:57

you know, so it's almost like we

21:00

all know that. Well, we don't all

21:02

know and we can have this debate that I

21:04

think the marathon is the hardest distance to run

21:06

fast. Forty two point two

21:08

or twenty six miles is just it's

21:10

brutal. And I think that

21:13

the distance in America from

21:15

San Francisco, New York City is kind

21:18

of perfectly terrible, you know,

21:20

where you have to go fast. But

21:22

you also have to go along, you know, in his

21:24

42 days is it sends shivers

21:27

up my spine. So as much as

21:29

people say, hey, Canada being,

21:31

you know, the widest area of

21:33

this continent is brutal. Yeah,

21:36

you shorten something up like a marathon. I know

21:38

it sounds stupid and shorten up like a marathon.

21:41

But you know, 26 miles run

21:44

fast enough will make you find Jesus pretty

21:46

quick. Yeah. So

21:48

we have Pete Pete's approach to

21:50

America and his his summer

21:52

going and doing that. It

21:54

was spectacular. And I Can't

21:58

imagine anybody I Can imagine. One

22:00

person right now breaking at. but it

22:02

was truly remarkable. And. I was seeking

22:04

to how hard it is to do

22:06

something like what you did with are figuring

22:09

out the logistics and having the crew is

22:11

just invaluable people to stay on top

22:13

of stuff so you can just focus on

22:15

the running. and but this dude ranch

22:17

self supported from Alaska like pushing all the

22:19

stuff in a stroller. M S is nuts,

22:22

that's nuts at any. was also covering

22:24

I guess significant distance a day like like

22:26

fifty miles at most days and show

22:28

a I mean yeah, he was governor shorter

22:30

distance and was young, hanging out with locals

22:33

and eating pancakes. At the local bakery

22:35

that's cool he but he wasn't

22:37

and so after the transmitter can

22:39

speed record I think that your

22:41

his key to keep run. Now

22:43

I'm Alaska down Florida. I think

22:45

there was also a finding yourself

22:47

trim for him and that's cool

22:49

right? Sometimes you compete. And

22:51

then sometimes you look after your

22:54

soul. And I think that was a

22:56

year of him looking after a so in a way

22:58

that other people are like oh my goodness I couldn't

23:00

even possibly imagine he was out there and he was

23:02

having a good time. And you know

23:04

I think that we all need those.

23:07

Yeah, yeah, go train hard for a

23:09

marathon, but then go on that really

23:11

cool backpacking trip with the family. There's

23:13

a time for both, I think. Yeah,

23:16

Okay, so speaking of these runners, I

23:18

think everyone should know about and great

23:20

Canadian runners Terry Fox and how how

23:22

he the guy that had a record

23:24

before before you broke it? So can

23:27

you just briefly tell our listeners who

23:29

these Canadian runners are. Terry

23:31

Fox. He if you ask any Canadian,

23:33

he is the hero he is that

23:36

the Canadian icon Terry Fox your last

23:38

one make to cancer at a very

23:40

very young age and at the age

23:42

of nineteen years old he ran a

23:44

marathon with a prosthetic leg and back

23:47

in nineteen eighty. You gotta remember that

23:49

look like a baseball bat can duck

23:51

tape to his way. Geico.was insane right?

23:53

But he ran a marathon with that

23:56

nice a hey I can do this.

23:58

I'm gonna do this every. The across

24:00

the country I want to raise one

24:02

dollar for every Canadian at the time

24:04

or populace was twenty seven million people

24:07

in in the country. As a wanderer

24:09

a twenty seven million dollars and he

24:11

traded a movement. He. A people

24:13

just stopped what they're doing. Everything

24:15

with Terry Fox and test showed

24:17

us what determination and will can

24:19

do you just showing up and

24:21

so the in Canada every child

24:23

Now when they go to school

24:25

they go into the Terry Fox

24:28

Run every year and they raise

24:30

money for cancer The Can eighty

24:32

Cancer Foundation and ever since Nineteen

24:34

Eighty when Terry Fox good the

24:36

run across Canada the Canadian has

24:38

foundation that give The Terry Fox

24:40

Foundation has raised just under nine

24:42

hundred. Million Dollars so I'm now

24:44

of course is while to. Terry

24:46

ended up passing away during that

24:48

run across Canada use Cost Of

24:50

and Debate almost halfway Mom just

24:52

over half way through and the

24:54

cancer came back and he passed

24:57

away not longer after so will

24:59

always remember Terry You He keeps

25:01

a big place and lot of

25:03

people's hearts and that's mine as

25:05

well. To the I'm Al how

25:07

he years of an absolute running

25:09

legends when I started running Ultra

25:11

Marathon site nineteen years. Ago I heard

25:13

about this guy and he ran across Canada and

25:15

hundred kilometers a day for seventy two days in

25:17

a row. And. Just who

25:20

does this he was routinely runs from one

25:22

city to the next when the marathon to

25:24

run home I got was his same as

25:26

what he did and you're like who, who

25:29

is this guy and so ultra Take my

25:31

my running career I'm thinking like yeah yeah

25:33

I ran hundred kilometers or yeah, run out

25:35

of miles around or man two hundred miles.

25:37

But yeah I didn't run one hundred kilometers

25:40

a day for seventy two days are like

25:42

that's a mythical. And. So I

25:44

think over the years I thought, yeah,

25:46

maybe maybe I could do this And

25:48

so that was. That was like fifteen

25:50

years ago and I'm absolutely honored and

25:53

I'm very thankful that people like him

25:55

dead there so that people like me

25:57

can dream. My. Hope is

25:59

that. Somebody who's listening to his podcast

26:01

right now is going. You

26:04

know might not be like and six

26:06

months of work or two blocks of

26:08

training or you know my not even

26:10

be here but might be a decade

26:12

away. But if you to start to

26:15

chip away at those little pieces you

26:17

know fine tuning yourself, making yourself one

26:19

percent better every day. Yeah, maybe I

26:21

can run across America. He the I

26:23

can run across Canada Australia you cannot

26:25

Russia right now because it's as a

26:27

different story has different podcast altogether. Yeah.

26:30

We simply just six. I would

26:32

say I would say yes. I

26:34

thought about running across Marilyn. Yeah.

26:37

But. Only the skinny parts as like to

26:39

modify. Yeah you could go after the

26:41

that part of the skinny parks. Yeah

26:43

yeah miss. maybe the skinny part now

26:45

maybe the fat part later. How about

26:47

you can start somewhere and other start

26:50

somewhere. It was almost like

26:52

this whole process is like three different

26:54

during his there is the preparations to

26:56

even starting your ryan including you know

26:59

when you try to twenty eighteen and

27:01

had to pull out due to injury

27:03

and your mindset, your and process and

27:06

Twenty eight Tina how that differed from

27:08

Twenty Twenty Two and realizing that you

27:10

had to do it for you this

27:12

time. Maybe you can talk about that

27:15

a little bit because as amazing as

27:17

as it is to do something for

27:19

charity in. That's a huge part of

27:21

many people's journeys. It's not Celsius, To do

27:24

it for ourselves either. Yeah, I I.

27:26

I think we need to have that

27:28

conversation right. and that's the way I

27:30

kind of position the book as well.

27:32

To start right into New Feminists are

27:34

right into the Run and Twenty Twenty

27:36

Two. And then the next chapter is

27:38

going through the On the Run and

27:40

Twenty A Team where I failed and

27:42

it was a very different run so

27:44

you could then easily compare the two

27:47

runs. And the biggest thing? The biggest

27:49

thing was that the second run was

27:51

ultimately for myself by myself and Snc

27:53

by. myself at the of definitely incredible crew

27:55

members but it was pared down by ninety

27:57

nine percent and that's okay And in fact,

28:00

it wasn't just okay. I found out after

28:02

a while, like a number of weeks of

28:04

being out there running, that it was actually

28:06

kind of nice that I was out there

28:09

running for me. So

28:11

I got up in the morning and it's not that I

28:13

needed to run, it's that I got to run. I

28:16

had the opportunity to run. And sometimes, you

28:18

know, you feel like even in training, you think,

28:20

if I need to do something, that's a lot

28:22

harder to do than I want to do something.

28:25

I need to make this meal for my partner versus

28:27

I want to make this meal for my partner. Such

28:30

a significant difference. And getting out of bed

28:32

in the morning on day 35

28:35

after running, you know, a gazillion miles, you

28:37

know, it felt good to go, hey, when

28:39

I swing my legs out of bed, I'm

28:41

doing this for me, you know, 10 miles

28:43

into the day, the next 10 miles. That's

28:45

for me too. Yeah, I felt for a

28:47

while that I always had to give people a reason

28:49

of why and give them that, you know, and you

28:51

can almost even apologize a little bit because people say,

28:54

oh, hey, what did you run for? Well,

28:56

I ran for myself. It's kind of awkward

28:59

silence, right? Well, what about what about cancer?

29:01

What about, you know, children's this and that.

29:03

And you know what, you're absolutely right. And

29:06

those campaigns have a purpose as well,

29:08

too. And I would love nothing more

29:10

than to go out and do more

29:12

rare disease work or doing work with

29:15

Mido Canada. But I think a big

29:17

part of the success, especially now circling

29:19

back and really, you know, completing my

29:21

thoughts after writing a book, you

29:23

know what, you're enough. You know, you

29:25

are worthy of whatever you're going through. And if

29:27

you can feel like you're worthy of whatever you're

29:30

going through, you can go through it. Some

29:32

people don't feel like they're worthy of

29:34

the suffering they're going through. Yeah, absolutely.

29:37

And I think that I quoted in the

29:39

book, Mansur Shroomening, Victor Frankl,

29:41

I forget the quote exactly, but his

29:44

greatest fear was that he would become abundantly

29:46

aware that he was not worthy of his

29:48

own level of suffering. Yeah. Now,

29:50

of course, people haven't read the book. He

29:53

survived the Holocaust as a

29:55

Jewish war prisoner. And so, of course,

29:57

you and me, we would quit. In

30:00

the middle of a runner race and the

30:02

world wouldn't and he quits and he dies.

30:05

When you're not worthy of the whatever

30:07

you're going through, you will quit. You're

30:09

absolutely right. I think that a lot

30:11

of people, a lotta people don't really

30:13

feel that that they're worthy of suffering.

30:15

But. I. Think we all are and

30:17

he there's nothing that are feeling in

30:19

the world than coming out the other

30:21

side and standing tall. Is. The reason

30:24

why switch directions this time? Yes and no.

30:26

The I started off in the other side

30:28

last time. So I'll start off on the

30:30

side to side and one day experience in

30:32

a different way. Even the parts they ran

30:35

the the time before I only got one

30:37

third away across. I want to experience it

30:39

looking at different way. I also wanted to

30:41

kind of experience in the way that Terry

30:43

Fox experienced it. You know

30:45

I want to start where he started one

30:48

to run. The roads are he ran because

30:50

I I feel like it. I was very

30:52

lonely out. There are a lot of the

30:54

time like you're running on your own. But

30:56

the coolest thing as you're never really ever

30:59

truly alone. You're running with ghosts that have

31:01

been there before and they've suffered and they

31:03

felt the same feelings. A lot. The same

31:05

feelings that you felt. Where's your feeling right

31:08

now? and I think that's kind of rat.

31:10

You know, Terry Fox did this back Nineteen

31:12

Eighty. That's here as Born. But.

31:14

He's still very very much alive.

31:17

Still, Like his spirit was with you the

31:19

whole time. Yeah. Absolutely,

31:21

especially in tell ya when he took

31:23

his last apps or last many days.

31:25

But I also had the privilege of

31:27

of connecting with Terry Fox, his brother,

31:29

your friends, Fox on the phone you.

31:31

We had a really good lengthy conversation

31:33

about brothers, my brother without their crew

31:36

in the at the time and my

31:38

brother were kind of at one another.

31:40

We were just endlessly frustrated with one

31:42

another. and and yeah, other crew members

31:44

you say hey, can I get more

31:46

fuel? hummus in that neck sandwich or

31:48

whatever And I kept got you? Yeah.

31:50

You see that your brother. Office

31:52

on he reverts back to and use Nine

31:54

Years Old and your seven years Old and

31:56

you're You're being a jerk and history and

31:58

have no such titles. Faster. And

32:01

you know like yeah it's weird, weird and

32:03

like you okay why or why are we

32:05

fighting but this this is different and he

32:07

pointed out that your brother was isn't a

32:10

distance runner either so he didn't really understand

32:12

the perspective that you were coming for. yeah

32:14

and I think he tried. he tried his

32:16

best he really did but honestly it's just

32:19

didn't have the energy to to go there

32:21

and so he alford about you use sense

32:23

this frustration between Ottawa and Thunder Bay where

32:25

he was creamy which is the hardest part

32:28

of of Canada to Helios it's the it's.

32:30

Most remote and he and I were

32:32

were saber rattling out there using the

32:34

big brother and I was being that's

32:36

the brother out there doing the thing

32:38

and it was awkward at times but

32:40

any I think he picked that up

32:42

and between the patience for sir and

32:44

that all areas full of lakes so

32:46

would you say that he was probably

32:48

the most mosquito silver. That. Was insane.

32:50

yeah fast and anything cats and that

32:53

in Manitoba our just west of of

32:55

there's while to and they're huge. They're.

32:58

Not the size of birds but but they're

33:00

not far off and it's amazing. When you're

33:02

running, you look back behind, you need to

33:04

see this massive cloud of of bugs and

33:07

you just think he. I really hope I

33:09

don't have to scratch my leg or something.

33:11

you know his because they're on you. Yeah,

33:14

it's It's incredible. and but whole area

33:17

along Lake Superior. Lake Superior's as truly

33:19

is Superior. It's a monstrous body of

33:21

water, and you don't quite know it

33:24

until you're running across him. And seven

33:26

days later, you're still running across. And.

33:29

Yeah, the bugs in there were on real. Well.

33:32

Hope you enjoyed this conversation thus far.

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Muscle Health Plus. I'd

35:11

like to have you talk about some of the mindset

35:13

that you needed and the mental strategies

35:15

you used as you ran across Canada.

35:17

So let's just give people an

35:20

idea of how things kind of got off

35:22

to a rough start back in the Atlantic

35:24

provinces. And then how did you deal with

35:26

that as you're going across the continent?

35:28

Yeah, I think that there's always things.

35:31

No matter what, like you think about running a

35:33

marathon, you're going to have

35:35

a thing or two come up. But

35:38

what if you run two and a half of them a day and

35:40

then seven days a week and 67 days of

35:43

those back to back to back? It

35:46

started off rocky to say the least. On

35:48

day one, I started feeling a tickle in

35:50

my throat and I got

35:52

COVID and that sucked. That

35:54

was not fun. And

35:56

so ultimately right away, you had to kind

35:58

of suspend your buy. Yes. Everything

36:01

you read in the news says you can't

36:03

exercise through COVID. So I just

36:05

said, you know what, I'll take it day by day. If

36:07

I can't, then I won't. Then I'll stop. I'll circle back

36:09

and I'll try it again. But let's see

36:11

how this goes. So, you know, you have

36:13

to kind of also accept your current state. And

36:16

so there's a number of little mindset bits. You

36:18

know, I think that, too, you

36:20

know, we always look for comfort. The comfort

36:22

that you understand and know is the comfort

36:24

that you remember. So, you know, let's say

36:27

three days in and you're really uncomfortable running

36:29

with COVID. And you've been running for, you

36:32

know, 230 miles at this point. You

36:35

still remember what it's like to be sitting on

36:37

your sofa the day before you started. But

36:39

on day 45, you don't remember

36:42

what comfort feels like. So you're like,

36:44

well, this is this, right? Like, this is

36:46

what this is this. And so, you know,

36:48

getting through that first week with COVID was

36:50

just ugly to say the least. But

36:53

then, you know, I got onto the mainland of

36:55

Canada, you know, nine days across Newfoundland.

36:59

And quite early on, because of the embankment

37:01

in the road, I ended up, you know,

37:03

fracturing my foot. And that was

37:05

a really ugly, difficult piece

37:08

where I still had over 6,000 kilometres

37:10

left to run. Yet I'm feeling broken.

37:13

I'm feeling my my navicular is

37:16

fractured. And in fact, it was. We

37:19

circled back at the end and it was with

37:21

MRIs. And so how do

37:23

you mentally manage this? You know, and

37:25

I just said the phrase as well,

37:27

too. This is this is

37:29

the most powerful phrase. Yeah, I like

37:32

that. That stuck out to me, too.

37:34

I have thought about it multiple times this

37:36

week since I read that, because there are

37:38

so many situations that applies to, you know,

37:40

there's obviously there's chosen suffering, you know, you

37:42

stand up for a race, you do a

37:45

challenge like, you know, you're talking about. But,

37:47

you know, everyone listening has unchosen suffering. And

37:49

sometimes it feels like this

37:51

current hardness is going to stretch on forever.

37:53

It's hard to feel hope in the midst

37:55

of that. And I think that that statement,

37:57

this is this is so powerful. Yeah.

38:00

And I remember talking to my sports psychologist while

38:02

I was running out there and we talked about

38:04

this and that's exactly what she said, Dave, this

38:07

is this. And

38:09

she said, there's so much power in

38:11

understanding that you can accept this. You

38:14

know, of course we don't want to

38:16

accept it, but so much is wasted.

38:18

So much is wasted in wanting something

38:20

to be different than really kind of

38:22

what it is. And so, hey,

38:25

yeah, my foot is broken. Can

38:27

I run on it? Yes. Does it hurt?

38:29

Yes. Can I accept it? And can I

38:31

suspend my wanting this to be any different

38:34

for the next 50 some odd

38:36

days? Yeah. I think I could do

38:38

that because this goal is bigger than

38:40

that. And so, you know,

38:43

that saying this is this, it's

38:45

so beautiful and so all encompassing

38:48

because you could tuck that aside and say,

38:50

well, yeah, it is what it is. It's

38:52

not going to be any different until I

38:54

stop and then I can heal, but I'm

38:56

not going to stop until I get to

38:58

Victoria. So I'm just going to have to

39:00

accept this and accept it for being it

39:03

and not anything different. And I

39:05

think there's so much suffering that takes place

39:07

with us wanting something to be different than

39:09

really, truly what it is. Yeah,

39:11

for sure. Another fascinating part that

39:13

you brought out was relating different

39:15

parts of your being to four

39:18

different animals. You know, that

39:20

was just really fascinating. I was thinking like, you

39:22

know, maybe other people relate to different animals, but

39:24

it would be really cool if you could kind

39:26

of share those voices, those parts of you, you

39:29

know, as personified by animals. Yeah,

39:32

it's, I don't know, I at the beginning

39:34

of when I, you know, kind of

39:36

came up with this, I thought, I thought this

39:38

was so stupid. And I thought, I don't know,

39:40

what am I thinking? Right. And this was about

39:42

like nine years ago or so I was, my

39:44

kids were younger, my oldest is now 18. But

39:47

my kids were younger. And I was reading a lot of, you

39:49

know, storybooks to them. Like Winnie the

39:51

Pooh, right? And now Winnie the

39:53

Pooh is so rad, because you got Piglet, and you

39:56

got Tigger, and you got Eeyore, and you got all

39:58

the characters and... If you really

40:01

think about it, they just personify

40:03

feelings, emotions, thoughts, ideas. But we

40:05

put so much attention on children

40:07

on better understanding and identifying

40:10

their thoughts and feelings and ideas and mental

40:12

health. But yet when we're running,

40:14

I don't know about you guys, but it's a

40:16

hot mess of a lot of thoughts

40:18

and feelings and ideas and everything

40:21

gets either catapulted out of

40:23

the stratosphere or remains buried

40:25

deep inside. And neither

40:27

one of those things are effective and they do

40:30

not yield positive

40:32

results when it comes to execution

40:34

on race day. So what

40:36

I've done is I've identified four animals that are

40:38

always with me when I run. And

40:41

my number one guy is my salamander.

40:44

He is prolific. He's the only of my

40:46

four with a name and his name's Emilio.

40:48

And he is pasted on my left brain

40:50

and between my skull and my brain. And

40:53

he always, always, always talks.

40:56

And he doesn't talk nicely. And

40:59

he tells me that, you know, I should quit,

41:02

I should stop. What are you

41:04

thinking? You're fat, you're lazy, you're stupid.

41:07

Nobody likes you, you're unattractive. All the things, all of the

41:09

things. He tells me to go get a second bowl of

41:11

ice cream. And he's always that guy

41:13

that gets in my head right away in the morning

41:15

when my alarm goes off and I hit snooze, right?

41:18

He's the guy that makes me hit snooze. But

41:21

you know, he never stops and I've come to understand that

41:23

he will never stop. He will

41:25

always be there. He's present all

41:28

the time until the day I die. And he was

41:30

there when I was born and he's going to be there until the

41:32

day I die. Slippery little guy, isn't he? Yeah,

41:35

you know, he's kind of like,

41:37

you can almost imagine he's kind

41:39

of like, wormy and squirmy and

41:41

like, he's got a voice of

41:43

Danny DeVito, if that helps, you

41:45

know? So

41:47

you can't ever get rid of him. You

41:50

just look somewhere else. Pay attention to a

41:52

different voice. And so

41:54

really, it's not even a voice. My

41:56

eagle never, ever says anything. He's just

41:58

there. Yes, and when

42:00

you look up at an eagle, you know,

42:02

he's way above my head and he is

42:05

always facing in the direction that I'm running

42:07

in. And whenever I look up at him,

42:09

I see he's in control.

42:11

He sees something up there that I can't see

42:14

from where I'm standing on the earth. That's

42:16

worthwhile going and getting and so he's

42:19

stoic. He's

42:21

resourceful. He's

42:23

wise. And you know, like those

42:25

rusted cowboys, they don't even have to say anything.

42:27

They just give you that look. And

42:29

you're like, oh yeah, I see you. You know,

42:31

they're so wise. And so yeah, so

42:33

he's always flying well above my head. And then you got

42:36

of course, you got your coyote. And

42:38

my coyote is always in the ditch beside me

42:40

or in the trail behind me or, or whatever.

42:42

And my coyote bites a lot. And he bites

42:44

my legs and he takes, you know,

42:46

chunks out of my flesh. And he's bitten me thousands

42:48

and thousands of times all my life. And, but yet

42:50

I'm still here. You know, and every

42:52

time you get bit, you think, okay, this is the one

42:55

that's going to kill me. It doesn't kill you. It just

42:57

hurts. Right? It's your relationship

43:00

with pain. Right. And

43:02

my coyote, you know, he doesn't respect me

43:04

much. He doesn't like think much of me.

43:07

I'm just a meal for him. But

43:09

he does pay attention and make eye

43:11

contact with, you know, the

43:13

big black fire breathing dragon way up in the sky

43:16

doing figure eight in the distance, because

43:18

he is ominous, in

43:20

control, capable, powerful,

43:24

beautiful. He's just

43:26

everything that you would ever, ever want

43:28

in a leader in, in anything

43:31

you, oh my goodness, wouldn't it be amazing to

43:33

be him? You know, so

43:36

long story short, I am him. That is me

43:38

in the distance. I am the dragon. I

43:41

am strong. I'm capable. I'm all of those

43:43

things. And just uncomfortable being those things. Right.

43:46

And I look up upon him sometimes

43:48

not only as, Hey, that's a

43:51

beacon of strength, but that I am strong. And

43:53

it's a reminder that you can do hard things and

43:56

that you can not listen to that salamander. And

43:59

you can ignore that. dragon because you're

44:01

strong and capable. And

44:03

sometimes you just have to tether yourself. I remember

44:06

you saying to your dragon, let him tow you,

44:08

you know, forward. Yeah.

44:10

And that's, and that's, you know, a part of

44:12

the book. And that's why, you know, the book

44:15

was supposed to be called Outrunner, because Outrun rare.

44:17

And, and, but at the last minute, I changed

44:19

it to Untethered. Because, you know, we

44:21

seem to think that our tethers are the things

44:23

that keep us down. And let's face it, you

44:26

know, Emilio, your salamander, he tells you, that

44:28

voice in your head tethers you, it just

44:31

does. Right. But we

44:33

never really ever think about

44:35

tethering to a greater power

44:37

to a greater source, you know, and seeing

44:41

that dragon and I know with my

44:43

run across Canada, I envision this long

44:46

rope, a long tether coming up

44:48

from my chest that extended up and in front of me

44:50

and up into the sky and dragon would take ahold of

44:52

it and give me a tow, he would give me a

44:54

ride. When times got hard, or

44:56

when I was running up mountains, or I was

44:58

at the end of my days or and you

45:00

can tether to a greater part of yourself. It's

45:03

not just both being tethered down. But are we

45:05

really ultimately at times tethering up? Yeah,

45:08

it's a beautiful metaphor. You introduce those

45:11

characters in the beginning. And then

45:13

they kind of reoccur throughout. And as you're going

45:15

over the Canadian Rockies, you're tethered

45:17

to the dragon and he's pulling you and

45:19

dragging you up. And then

45:21

at the end, you realize you are the

45:23

dragon. Spoiler alert. Spoiler

45:26

alert, right? Yeah, you're untethered. You know,

45:28

it could be the final day. Like,

45:30

yeah, let's just go there. I looked

45:33

around and there were no animals. There

45:36

was no Danny DeVito voice in my head.

45:38

Honestly, there was no pain. Like

45:40

there was no bites. I was looking

45:43

around for that coyote. He wasn't there. You get

45:45

so so often you look around for them. You

45:47

know, the eagle there was really no point. Right.

45:50

And the dragon wasn't there because ultimately he was

45:52

you. So if you

45:54

were tethering to him, you were

45:56

therefore untethered. You at that point,

45:59

for a short period of time, I felt

46:01

invincible. And I can't

46:03

tell you how wonderful of a

46:05

feeling that is. Even for a

46:08

brief period of time in one's life, in one day for

46:10

the rest of your life, I will always feel

46:13

that and I will never ever let go of

46:15

that feeling ever again. A feeling

46:18

untethered. Dr. Patrick Seyfried And I think

46:20

you said in the book that feeling gave

46:22

you so much buoyancy that you just wanted

46:24

to keep going. You know, like you had

46:26

reached your end goal. You were exhausted. You

46:29

lost 18 pounds and at a broken foot,

46:31

you needed to recover. But still, your soul

46:33

had just expanded to the point

46:35

where you were like, I want to maintain this

46:37

feeling. Dr. Patrick Seyfried You thought about turning around

46:39

and doing it again the opposite way. Dr. Patrick

46:41

Seyfried Oh, and that's absolutely true. There was a

46:43

point in time where I was running across Vancouver

46:46

Island at the end and it was a 35

46:48

kilometer, 22 mile run. And I got thinking,

46:52

I'm like, when I stop this run

46:54

in a matter of hours, I'll no

46:56

longer, I will never feel this good ever again in

46:58

my life. I know that. I'm

47:01

not running across Russia or circumnavigating the moon.

47:03

It's not going to happen. And it

47:05

kind of got me sad. I got

47:08

thinking that I don't ever want

47:10

to not feel like this again. No, I

47:12

like this. I want this. In fact, I

47:14

started feeling like I needed it. So

47:17

I convinced myself that I wasn't going to tell anybody. I

47:19

was going to just circle around the monument and run away.

47:21

And all the media was going to be like, what the

47:23

heck? And but

47:26

then very quickly, you start thinking, well, I think

47:28

that's kind of how meth addicts feel. You

47:31

know, afraid of the come down is

47:34

real. Hey, I think I'm addicted to

47:36

coffee. But that's about it. Hey, probably

47:38

addicted to running. Let's face it. And

47:40

exercise, that's a dopamine dump unto itself.

47:42

But of course, you quickly realize, I've

47:45

got children, I've got a life

47:47

to get back to, I've got

47:49

responsibilities. I want to

47:51

make the choice to not actively be that

47:54

person that's chasing that dragon. And

47:56

would you say like that third aspect

47:58

was the most challenging? part of

48:00

the journey of where you had to like

48:02

your body really had to reregulate your serotonin

48:04

levels because you had been really chasing that

48:07

dopamine high for days and days and days.

48:10

Your body had acclimated to it. I think

48:12

you talked about the book Dopamine Nation, which

48:14

is an excellent read and you

48:16

are really honest about what the aftermath

48:18

was like for you. So maybe

48:20

go into that a little bit. Dr. Justin Marchegiani

48:22

Yeah, this might be relevant to anyone who's

48:24

felt post race blues, which is a real

48:27

thing marathoners feel. Absolutely. And

48:29

a lot of my friends who like guys

48:31

like Pete, you know, told me,

48:33

hey, brace for impact. And

48:36

I, I don't know if I didn't believe him or just didn't

48:38

want to believe him. You know, in the book, I do my

48:41

best to explain it. I think

48:43

it was multifaceted. I think that

48:45

coming down off of a high, you

48:48

know, there is that dopamine

48:50

deficit that takes place. And

48:52

the best way I kind of explained it

48:55

is every province I ran across, I felt

48:57

higher and higher and higher as much as

48:59

I felt broken, like my body and my

49:01

legs. I felt broken, but I

49:03

also felt good. In fact,

49:06

not only good, but I felt amazing.

49:09

I explained it in the book that there was

49:11

almost like a doctor that was coming in sneaking

49:13

into my hotel room at night, injecting me with

49:15

these feel good, you know, endorphins then made you

49:17

just motivated and driven happy. And

49:20

you got so much of it. I can't

49:22

imagine how much dopamine was going through my system. And

49:25

then the day that you stop, he doesn't show up. And

49:29

it didn't, it didn't really feel bad right away. I

49:31

felt kind of relieved like, Hey, I don't need to

49:33

run tomorrow. This is great. I get to

49:35

go to Starbucks and grab a coffee after many days.

49:37

And this felt as well too. I was in an

49:39

air cast for the better part of two and a

49:41

half months. So you didn't have access to your drug.

49:43

No, I could not exercise. I'm still hung up

49:46

on the fact that you didn't go to Tim

49:48

Hortons to get a coffee. I know. Yeah.

49:51

I'm one of these Canadians who's like, you know what?

49:53

Tim Hortons is actually just not very good. Like,

49:56

I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Tim. You know, you

49:58

know, it's. Yeah,

50:00

I do prefer Starbucks. Ah you know

50:02

I think that over the next many

50:05

weeks I started feeling the best word

50:07

I could use is empty. I felt

50:09

void of feeling good and out eat

50:12

food. I would just my girlfriend, I

50:14

would hug my kids and will sound

50:16

stupid but I didn't feel a damn

50:18

thing. And I was eager

50:20

to feel something. And boy after a

50:23

period of time I was shocked My

50:25

psychologist and talking about thoughts and feelings

50:27

in ideas. it's as busy blaming lot

50:29

of people in my life and I

50:31

was busy kind of acting out. The

50:34

acting out sessions got worse, the blame

50:36

got worse. And it got

50:38

worse to a point beyond I talk

50:40

about in my book where I consider

50:43

taking my life. I was

50:45

ugly. And. I

50:47

knew enough to know that I got

50:49

a lot to live for and that

50:52

I needed to go get some support

50:54

and help and so I end up

50:56

of hospital and that was the beginning

50:58

of a whole the anti depressants and

51:00

it was. It was hard and and

51:02

you know wasn't hate taken into person.

51:04

You're in your good know it's not

51:06

that way and the dams was continually

51:08

happening in I was harming. Relationships.

51:11

And acting out in ways

51:13

and very embarrassed. I.

51:16

Wrote this book and I was thinking i'm like

51:18

okay, I'm just gonna ride or organically, I'm gonna

51:20

get to appointments and we're not going include that.

51:22

To. This kind of embarrassing yeah but

51:24

also think it's a wrote the book

51:27

very honestly about the good and the

51:29

bat. It's

51:31

it's. very forthcoming and so health.

51:33

You. Know I was just do it and I sent

51:35

it to the outer and I also center guys I

51:38

peed in lazarus lake and on so forth and and

51:40

they said keep it in their. Make

51:42

this is important because the lows after

51:44

the highs are real and this is

51:46

when you need support and we also

51:49

need to educate the people around us

51:51

to know that those high achievers, those

51:53

people were going after things. There.

51:55

With them, they'll be back. right?

51:58

they're they're they're coming back and And so

52:00

it was a long year after the fact.

52:02

I think I even alluded to the

52:04

hardest part of this run was not the run itself,

52:06

it was the recovery after the run. And

52:09

I'm glad I wrote it. I've been getting

52:11

incredible responses from people. I feel like when

52:13

you open up, your others open up and

52:15

it just creates a beautiful world where we're

52:17

like, hey, yeah, me too. I totally get

52:20

it. But I didn't

52:22

want to tell anybody. I didn't want

52:24

to admit that I was weak or that

52:26

I was broken or wrong or whatever

52:29

you want to call it. And you're none of those.

52:31

Like nobody's any of those at any one time. But

52:34

I think that sometimes people will look up to

52:36

people like me who do these things. But I

52:38

think that we need to be honest with the

52:40

community and say, yeah, as strong as I was,

52:42

I was teetering on the other side as well

52:45

too. Yeah. And I think people

52:47

are going to really relate to that, that when there

52:49

are highs, there are going to be lows. Even

52:51

like you said, the strongest, most motivated,

52:54

positive people can go through that and

52:56

it's not a weakness. And

52:58

just by sharing your story, I think it's

53:01

really going to give people hope that

53:03

there is something on the other side that

53:05

whatever they're going through right now, this is

53:08

this to seek resources, to

53:10

talk to people, to get the help that

53:12

they need. Because ultimately

53:14

there are going to be things in life that

53:16

you can't do on your own really. We're

53:18

not meant to interact and live on this

53:20

earth by ourselves. And that's not the healthiest

53:23

way to operate. So I think that's really

53:25

important. Yeah, absolutely. You know, I

53:27

also think though too that part

53:29

of my healing from coming off

53:32

of that year was thank

53:34

God I was writing a book. You know,

53:36

I'm not an artistic guy. I don't play

53:38

the piano. I don't sing. I don't paint.

53:40

I don't. But I also thought that I couldn't

53:43

because I just don't have that gene. I'm

53:45

not. But I'm now a

53:47

writer, you know, and I feel that putting

53:49

your thoughts and feelings on paper when it

53:52

comes to connecting the dots

53:54

with what happened over that last

53:56

year and also being honest with

53:58

the world then therefore. I can

54:00

be honest with myself. I

54:03

feel the best part of my hurt

54:05

healing over the last year was writing

54:07

this book. The

54:10

most wonderful thing, sorry, I'm just jumping here

54:12

now, but is when I end

54:15

up getting private messages on Instagram or Facebook

54:17

or whatever from people who are reading the

54:19

book all over the world and it's since

54:22

I'm opening up, they're opening up and I

54:24

want to tell you that I'll read every

54:26

single message that comes in because there's

54:29

nothing better in the world than knowing that

54:32

your message has landed with people in a

54:34

positive way. So if anybody wants to send

54:36

me a message, it's such an honor to

54:38

receive that from you. Yeah, that's cool, man.

54:41

So everyone check out Run Proctor on

54:43

Instagram. How do you like to get

54:45

messages if we want to direct people

54:47

somewhere? Oh yeah, yeah, Instagram is a

54:49

perfect place. So everybody check out the

54:51

book Untethered. The comeback story of one

54:53

of the longest, fastest runs in history

54:55

by Dave Proctor. Well thank you for

54:57

sharing your story with us. Looking

55:00

forward to seeing what's next and you're always welcome

55:02

to come back on the show. Thanks

55:04

a lot for having me guys. All

55:31

right, I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Dave Proctor. I

55:34

didn't even put two and two together

55:36

that the title of the book Untethered had to

55:38

do with he and his dragon and like by

55:40

the time I got to the end of the

55:42

book, I forgot what the title was and I

55:44

was just like busy reading it. You're

55:47

sucked into the drama of it. You

55:49

know, I would like to drive across Canada. Angie

55:51

and I used to go on these long camping

55:53

trips during the summer and we drove all the

55:55

way to Alaska and back. One

55:57

thing we haven't done is drive across Canada.

56:00

They might be a thing we do someday and see cool

56:02

stuff along the way lots of mountains and beauty and lakes

56:04

and mosquitoes And all kinds of good stuff. Yes, it is

56:06

a beautiful country Well that brings

56:08

us to the end of this episode. Thank you for being

56:10

a listener if we can help you in your journey Please

56:13

reach out. We have a contact form on

56:15

our website marathon training academy calm We also

56:17

have a team of coaches that are very

56:19

skilled at helping you accomplish whatever goal you're

56:21

working on Whether it's to run your first

56:24

marathon half marathon Ultra or

56:26

build back after injury target a PR or

56:28

a Boston qualifying time We've got someone on

56:30

the team who's done it and who can

56:32

help you do it until next time keep

56:35

taking action in your goal It's worth it.

56:37

And remember you have what it takes to run

56:39

a marathon and change your life