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Welcome to Marketing School, the only

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podcast that provides daily top level

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marketing tips and strategies from entrepreneurs

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that practice what they preach and live

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what they teach. Let's start leveling

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up your marketing knowledge with your instructors,

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Neil Patel and Eric Sue.

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All Right, guys, before we start, we got a special

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right, everyone, super excited to bring you

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Lucas Lee Tyson today, founder

0:55

of growth Cave, which is a company that

0:57

helps businesses large and small to dominate

0:59

their industries online by implementing quote

1:01

unquote ahead of the curve online marketing strategies

1:04

with an aim to double sales. So I'm super excited

1:06

to talk about these kind of ahead of the curve strategies

1:09

which is what I like to nerd out on. So Lucas

1:12

first and foremost, welcome to the show. Thank

1:14

you so much for having me on, Eric, It's great to be here. Yeah.

1:16

Likewise, good to see you. So let's talk a

1:18

little bit about it. I mean, because the bio I

1:20

gave is a little kind of ambiguous,

1:23

right, So how do you narrow it down? What exactly

1:25

is growth Cavan? And actually even before that, how

1:27

did you even end up with this this business?

1:30

Yeah for sure. So just as far as what the

1:32

business is today, the way I describe

1:34

it is there's two parts of it. We have the

1:36

agency and the service side, where we actually

1:38

create and manage campaigns for businesses,

1:41

literally going in and managing and doing everything

1:44

for them on the paid advertising side. And

1:46

then on the other side of the business we have the training

1:48

and consulting side for businesses that are maybe

1:50

earlier stage. We teach the things

1:52

that we're currently doing with are done for you agency

1:54

clients, so that businesses on the smaller side

1:56

can still get the knowledge, they can get the experience

1:59

that we're utilized inside all of our ad

2:01

accounts without having to pay us, you know, month

2:03

over month for a retainer so

2:05

that's where we're at today. And I started the business

2:08

almost three years ago. I think it's two and a half

2:10

years ago officially at this point. But I've

2:13

always been a nerd, Like in high school and

2:15

through most of college, most of my time outside

2:17

of class was spent on the computer on the Internet,

2:19

just kind of like nerding out on a lot of online

2:21

business stuff. And I actually made my first

2:23

dollar online when I was fifteen years old. I stumbled

2:26

on like this internet marketing forum and I was

2:28

just blown away by like all the crazy things

2:30

that people were doing to make money, like ranking

2:32

sites on Google, on YouTube and things like that,

2:34

and I just got obsessed, you know, with this world.

2:36

And I thought at the time, I was like, Okay,

2:39

if I can figure this stuff out, I won't have to get

2:41

a job, you know, like being a cashier at

2:43

the grocery store. And that was all I was thinking about. And

2:45

in college I had like little side

2:47

projects here and there. I started like drop shipping

2:50

stores, I started like Amazon businesses. None

2:52

of them really blew up like I expected

2:54

them to. But one summer, the sophomore

2:56

year, summer, I was working in internship

2:59

at this company in Boston called form Labs.

3:01

They're a massive three D printing company,

3:03

and I was doing like a digital marketing internship

3:06

with them, and as an intern, I got to sit

3:08

in on all the meetings that I had with my boss

3:10

see how the company's marketing side worked.

3:13

And one of the biggest parts of the marketing

3:15

side was they worked with an agency that

3:17

was based out of California to manage

3:19

all of their paid digital advertising

3:21

spend. At the time, I'm sure it's a lot larger

3:23

now, they were spending around two hundred and fifty

3:26

thousand dollars a month on Facebook, Google,

3:28

Yahoo, Twitter, all of these other platforms,

3:30

and to manage that, the agency was basically,

3:33

you know, doing it all for them. They would myself

3:35

and my boss would hop on kind of

3:37

these client calls with the agency, and I got to see

3:39

kind of how the business worked. And as I progressed

3:42

in that internship, obviously I was learning a lot

3:44

on the digital marketing side. I was learning, you know, how

3:46

a business actually operates when it comes

3:48

to online advertising. But more importantly,

3:51

at that point, I kind of realized that this

3:53

what this agency was doing, which is basically running

3:56

another company's marketing for them and

3:58

having that be their business model. I realized

4:00

that not only was this something that I could do

4:02

basically, like as a freelancer, as a contractor,

4:05

but not only that, but as I sat in on

4:07

all the meetings, it kind of dawned on me, like what

4:09

they're doing, isn't that like impressive.

4:11

It's not like this out of this world stuff that

4:13

I would never be able to learn. So that summer,

4:16

I started basically marketing myself

4:18

as just a freelancer, just as a contractor,

4:20

someone who could help businesses with

4:23

their Facebook ads. And I got started, you know, very

4:25

slowly. I started with like job sites, I got

4:27

started cold emailing, you know, random

4:30

businesses in my area, and I'd get the occasional client

4:32

here and there. And that was two and a half years

4:34

ago, and now I'm at the point where I've had

4:36

the privilege of, you know, working with companies

4:38

like Joe Rogan's on It, his supplement company,

4:41

snow Teeth Whitening, Real Leads, an Autobox,

4:43

thanks to the skills that I'd learned back

4:45

then. But then also just kind of the realization

4:48

that all this stuff is out there, you know, if I

4:50

just wanted to learn how to run Facebook ads, how

4:52

to get clients. The knowledge is out there, there's people running

4:54

these businesses. It's just a matter of me, you

4:56

know, taking action and putting it to work. Got

4:58

it. So just to clarify here, so the clients

5:00

that you're working with, you're not working in a traditional agency

5:03

retainer model, and correct if I'm wrong, maybe you are,

5:05

but you're maybe working on a pay for performance basis.

5:07

Is that what it is on a lot of those

5:09

clients that I named, Yes, none of

5:11

those clients were agency clients. Well

5:14

really it was one. They were an agency client

5:16

a while ago. But a lot of these companies and

5:18

many companies today offer their

5:21

products and their services on affiliate

5:23

networks like a four D like all these others that

5:26

basically anyone like myself, like an agency

5:28

or just a random person who has a computer

5:30

with an Internet connection can go in and basically

5:33

just start promoting these products, putting

5:35

their own dollars behind the ad spend. And if they

5:37

have a good campaign, if they have good creative and it's

5:39

working, then obviously it's a win win for everyone.

5:41

We get paid on the affiliate payout, they get

5:44

new customers coming into their business. That

5:46

was actually, like I said, like one of the first

5:48

ways that I had figured out a way to make money

5:50

online was affiliate offers, but it never dawned on

5:52

me that kind of combining these two skills

5:55

in addition to having you know, agency clients,

5:57

could be a way to have an actual business. Got

5:59

it? So can you talk about, I mean, how

6:02

the business is doing today, employees,

6:04

revenues, all that type of stuff. Yeah,

6:06

absolutely, So last month

6:08

was our best month across just over two hundred

6:10

and sixty k in revenue cash collected,

6:12

and this month is pacing to be a little

6:14

higher than that. It should be around three hundred,

6:17

but it's still a little early to tell. And

6:19

right now, still have a pretty small team

6:21

around five full time employees

6:23

including myself, to salespeople, two media

6:25

buyers. And that's basically how it

6:28

helworks. And by the way, this is important,

6:30

right and Lucas might kill me for saying this, but

6:32

before we started, keep in mind, I think you

6:34

started this business when you're still, you know, nineteen

6:36

years old, so you're a teenager when you started this. Right

6:39

now you're twenty two years old and

6:41

you've got this business that's doing I think that you're

6:43

pacing for over three million dollars

6:46

right. What I want people to understand listening to this too,

6:48

is that whether you have children or whatever,

6:50

you're a teenager listening to this right now or early twenties,

6:53

you know you can make it happen. Right. So what I'm

6:55

here, I just want to clarify again that you first got

6:57

your initial clients by a lot

6:59

of hand hand combat, right you went to these job

7:01

websites. You're emailing people like,

7:04

that's how you got them? Right? Am I missing anything there?

7:06

No, that's exactly correct. And if you actually go

7:08

on my YouTube, just Lucas Lee Tyson,

7:11

it's just that channel that summer

7:13

where I was working that internship, I

7:15

was starting my journey, and I was one

7:17

of the very first videos on that channel. Is literally

7:20

a YouTube video of me talking

7:22

from my tiny apartment in Boston, from

7:24

my internship apartment, talking about how I

7:26

was using upwork to land my very first

7:28

clients. And it's so embarrassing to look at now because I was

7:31

terrible on camera. I just spoke slow, slowly,

7:33

and it's like it was honestly probably one of the worst

7:35

videos ever, but it became popular because

7:37

people now search for, oh, how do I get

7:39

clients for my agency? How do I get freelance

7:41

clients and things like that. So it was definitely

7:43

very much of a slog to get

7:45

started. But that's

7:48

kind of like anything is like. Once you have those first few

7:50

initial good reviews, those first few good testimonials

7:52

from clients, it's going to snowball from there. Yeah,

7:55

I just want people that I want to really emphasize

7:58

this because the entrepurs I know that,

8:00

you know, they started maybe when they're like thirteen, fourteen

8:02

years older, so it's it's really they've been in the they've

8:04

been playing the game for longer. So I don't want people

8:06

to stress out. I think, Lucas, you shouldn't

8:08

have any problems eventually. My opinion is getting

8:10

to eight figures, perhaps even nine, because you

8:13

know you started earlier and then you know you know what you're

8:15

doing, right, So I think a lot of times it's it's

8:17

it's very overwhelming to compare yourself

8:19

to someone else, which is what I don't recommend. But

8:22

again, you know, Lucas is a perfect example of this of

8:24

making it happen. So can you talk

8:26

to you. I'm looking at your site right now. It seems

8:28

like it drives people to a training. What

8:31

is the goal now because you have it, says over fifty

8:33

five thousand other digital marketers have learned from insights

8:35

and strategy. So what are you pushing now on Growthcave

8:37

dot com right now? So the main

8:39

focus of the email list, and that's actually one of

8:42

my focuses over the next quarter,

8:44

is kind of just making it more

8:46

obvious how we segment a

8:48

lead or a prospect to our business,

8:51

because, like I said, there's the two parts of the business. There is

8:53

done for you agency side, where we literally set

8:55

up and run campaigns for people, and then there's the training

8:58

and consulting side, which there could

9:00

apply to anyone. So right now,

9:03

the way that we have our marketing setup is

9:05

that someone goes to a website, so someone goes to a

9:07

specific landing page, they opt in, they go through

9:09

our email marketing system, and they just

9:12

get hit, you know, with daily emails,

9:14

daily offers pitching them a product

9:16

or a service of ours, or to get on the

9:18

phone with one of our sales representatives to see,

9:20

you know, if they'd be a good fit for one of our higher

9:22

end things. Right now, it's not,

9:25

if I'm being honest, it's not the most organized

9:27

thing. It's literally just like Daily offers daily emails

9:30

that are kind of just all over the place. My goal

9:32

over at least by mid

9:35

this year, so by like June or July, is to have

9:37

some sort of survey

9:40

qualification where before someone even

9:42

puts in their email, because right now, as you just go on the website,

9:44

you click the button, you just enter your email, you get

9:46

the free training. I want to have some sort

9:48

of like survey qualification, which a lot of businesses

9:51

and brands do, which is basically saying,

9:54

you know, you click the button, you say like, okay,

9:56

I'm this type of person. I'm someone interested in starting

9:58

a business, I'm someone that already has a bu and I'm

10:00

interested in growing, and then it asks them,

10:02

based on that question a series of responses

10:05

before they ever have the opportunity to put in their

10:07

email, so that way they only get sent

10:09

products, services, and promotions that theoretically

10:12

are more specific to their current situation versus

10:14

right now, if you opt in, you just basically get hit

10:16

with like a one to two month email chain

10:18

that could just be all over the place for them,

10:20

but it works to a degree, so can't complain

10:22

about that. So I'm wondering right now because

10:25

you're in the season of right now, it's it's

10:27

making money, right, What is the long term vision

10:29

for this business? What are you going to what's the plan with the

10:31

cash flows? Because you can either you have two options

10:34

right now. You can really really just realize the

10:36

games, go buy lambos and things like that, show off

10:38

your house, or you can take it in a different direction. Right,

10:40

what are you trying to do? Yeah? Well, one of my

10:42

biggest goals is just I've kind

10:44

of been talking about, is like, I love entrepreneurship.

10:47

I love the idea of working for myself, of building

10:49

things from the ground up and seeing them, you know,

10:51

actually grow. And obviously, you know,

10:53

money is great, and having the freedom to work and the things

10:55

that I want is great. But I can't imagine

10:58

just hanging up the talent being like, Okay, you know,

11:00

I'm all done. You know, next twenty years of my life, I'm just going to

11:02

sit on a beach somewhere. I just can't imagine

11:04

doing that. So one of my longer

11:07

term goals is to eventually get into SAS

11:09

and software. I think it's a really interesting

11:11

space and I think it is a very different type

11:13

of business model versus agency

11:16

consulting training, which is very cash

11:18

flow heavy and it's very much focused on upfront

11:21

profit sas and software based

11:23

on what I know about it is very much longer

11:25

term focused, where it might be three months

11:27

or even six months before you're profitable

11:29

on a single customer. But once you have that

11:32

recurring revenue coming in and you have that customer

11:34

base, then eventually that business could be acquired

11:36

for eight or even nine figures. And

11:38

that's kind of my goal is to have the

11:41

cash flow side of this current business to be able

11:43

to fund any future projects like software

11:45

like SaaS or even physical product businesses

11:48

that would require a lot of upfront

11:50

investment that this business did not really

11:52

require any Yeah, I love what

11:54

you're saying. I mean, I think the agency

11:56

business is a great starter business for anybody

11:58

because again, not a lot of upfront costs the cash

12:01

flows to bring in, you can, to your point, take

12:03

it and reinvest it in more durable or exponential

12:06

sources of revenue, you know, which is what we've done with

12:08

our SaaS and kind of other investments as well. By

12:10

the way, SaaS sometimes it takes a lot longer than you

12:12

think it will in terms of realizing

12:14

profits. Just keep that in mind. So I

12:16

want to talk about the latest kind

12:18

of you know, because this is you know, we're talking

12:20

about the latest kind of growth tactics or strategies.

12:23

What are some nifty things you can share with the audience.

12:26

So traditionally, when I first got started

12:28

two and a half years ago, and honestly, for probably

12:30

like the first year, year and a half of my business,

12:32

my focus was only on Facebook

12:35

ads. That was the only thing that I offered to clients,

12:37

That was the only way that I was getting clients

12:39

was running Facebook ads for my own agency.

12:41

It was working well. But in the past year,

12:44

past six months, what we've seen

12:46

doing really well both with the clients that we

12:49

work with and for our own business and getting new

12:51

sales, getting more customers for ourselves is

12:53

YouTube and Google advertising. And

12:55

there's a lot of people, a few people in the marketing

12:57

space talking about this. But the

12:59

way that I kind of see it is that

13:02

Facebook and Instagram and most social

13:04

media is very much a form of pattern

13:06

interruption marketing. You know, someone's waiting

13:08

for the subway, they're waiting for their spouse to

13:11

come home from work, They're scrolling through Instagram.

13:13

Maybe they see an ad that they like, they click it, versus

13:16

YouTube and other forms of Google advertising,

13:18

which is very much intent based. It's

13:20

video based, so there's a lot more personality

13:22

that you can kind of convey through that. There's

13:25

a lot more intent behind

13:27

those things. For example, if someone's looking on YouTube

13:29

for how to run Facebook ads, theoretically

13:32

those clicks and those leads that come in from

13:34

a campaign that's targeting that keyword are going to

13:36

be a lot more qualified than, like I said, the person

13:38

that maybe is a good fit for the product

13:41

or service, but they're just waiting for the bus and they just click

13:43

the ad. Then they close it, you know, when they go find something

13:45

else to do. We've seen a really

13:47

big transition in our business,

13:49

not just away from Facebook ads,

13:51

but to the larger paid advertising

13:53

space as a whole, and transitioning

13:56

to a lot more forms of

13:58

YouTube and Google advertising for mostly

14:00

those reasons. There's a few other benefits.

14:02

For example, Facebook, it's kind of notorious

14:05

for not having the best customer support,

14:07

you know when it comes to their accounts. To Google from

14:09

my experience, is a little better, just

14:11

with a lot of the iOS and Apple

14:14

changes that I've come to Facebook. Thankfully,

14:16

our clients haven't been too disrupted

14:18

on that when it comes to Facebook, but YouTube

14:20

and Google hasn't really been in the press

14:23

as much, and I do think it is kind of more of a

14:25

low key, kind of an under the radar blue

14:27

ocean that we've seen across a lot of different

14:29

niches and industries. Got it, Give

14:32

us something that you typically don't share, right, because we do talk

14:34

about Facebook and YouTube quite a bit on the

14:36

podcasts. Give us a secret. Yeah,

14:39

when it comes to YouTube advertising,

14:41

there's three different ways that you basically can

14:43

target, or there's probably more than three. There's so

14:45

many ways, but the main way that people know that

14:48

you can target is keywords

14:50

that they're currently searching for on

14:52

YouTube or the past keywords that

14:54

they've searched for on Google. One

14:56

of the easiest ways that we've seen, especially

14:59

with newer business like businesses doing

15:01

less than like fifty to one hundred K a month in

15:03

revenue, some of the lowest hanging

15:05

fruit campaigns that we've ever launched is

15:08

just either targeting competitor keywords

15:10

people that are already have previously searched

15:12

their competitors on Google, and then coupling

15:14

that with placement video campaigns and

15:16

Basically what a placement video campaigns is

15:19

literally pulling a list of specific

15:21

videos that you want to show your ad in front

15:23

of. So if you found a video that was

15:25

blowing up, that was getting one hundred thousand, five

15:27

hundred thousand views a day and you're like, oh, the viewers

15:30

of this video would be a perfect fit for my company,

15:32

you can literally have Google put

15:34

all of your daily budget on that campaign only

15:37

on that one specific video, and I wouldn't

15:39

recommend it, but that is kind of what we've

15:41

seen, not only work with businesses

15:43

that are on the smaller side and maybe don't have thousands

15:45

of dollars a day to dump into ads, because those

15:47

both those two types of campaigns are extremely

15:49

extremely targeted. Not only that, but

15:52

like I just said, if you can find a video

15:54

that's in your niche, that's in your industry, that's kind

15:56

of on the rise, it's going viral, it's

15:58

getting really popular, it's getting a lot of views per day,

16:01

if you target that specific video or a

16:03

handful of those specific videos, the costs

16:06

on that are going to be dramatically lower. And

16:08

then if you're targeting a video that's maybe six months

16:10

or a year old and it still has views coming

16:12

in, but theoretically the views and the clicks

16:14

are not going to be as cheap. So there's two kind

16:16

of dualities to that. Is just being able

16:18

to target those low hanging fruit campaigns

16:21

to get new companies and new campaigns off the ground

16:23

faster, but then also kind of riding the

16:25

wave of popular and trending videos

16:27

in specific industries to kind of capitalize

16:29

on those lower costs. That's going a little

16:31

deeper into YouTube. But aside from that, what else

16:33

are you excited about? Right? You can talk about clubhouse,

16:35

you can talk about TikTok, you know these other platforms.

16:38

TikTok I think is probably

16:41

going to be one of the biggest advertising

16:43

platforms in the next three or five years. I don't know

16:45

too much about clubhouse. I've been in a few clubhouse rooms

16:47

and I think they're really interesting. But

16:49

just the specific case

16:51

studies that I've heard from companies doing

16:54

TikTok, I've found it's very very

16:56

hit or miss, kind of like I said before, with

16:59

YouTube, where it's like, if you can ride the wave of

17:01

a specific trend or a specific video

17:03

that's blowing up, you can make a ton of money in like two

17:05

weeks or a Month's the exact same thing with TikTok,

17:08

where if you can kind of the way that TikTok

17:10

works is just that there's specific

17:12

trends, there's specific sounds that are

17:14

popular on the app for maybe like

17:16

two weeks at a time. That's how long trends last

17:19

on there. And if you can be a brand that's

17:21

not necessarily promoting something but

17:23

just makes an organic piece of content on there

17:25

that matches a trend and it happens to mention

17:28

your product or it happens to refer back to your profile,

17:30

the reach on there is honestly insane. Like you

17:32

can have a profile with zero followers

17:35

less than one hundred followers in your video could get ten

17:37

million views inside of a week if you're able

17:39

to capitalize on top of a trend. So I definitely

17:41

think that over the next couple of years, more

17:44

brands and more marketers are going to try and kind

17:46

of infiltrate that platform because

17:48

it very much is a platform where if something looks like

17:50

an ad, if it's something that's obviously you know,

17:52

promoting something and it's not going to do well, but

17:55

if it's something that can look organic, if you

17:57

can kind of blend in with the platform

17:59

and you can put some advertising dollars behind it to kind

18:02

of get that initial traction that's just going to

18:04

you know, kind of capitalize on it even further. Right,

18:07

what resources are you going to? So it could be

18:09

podcast, blogs, videos, or

18:11

YouTube channels whatever. What resource are you

18:13

going to to get better as an entrepreneur.

18:17

So, one entrepreneur that I followed pretty closely

18:19

is Alex Hermosi of Jim Launch, mostly

18:21

because his business model pretty closely

18:24

resembles mine. He has both

18:26

a done for you agency and services

18:28

side of his business, and then he has a training and consulting

18:30

side, and he literally only works with jim

18:32

owners, people who own a traditional brick

18:35

and mortar gym or who offer personal training

18:37

services to clients. And they've obviously completely

18:39

blown up. They went to zero to I believe,

18:41

one hundred million in revenue in less than three

18:43

years. And he has a YouTube channel of

18:45

podcasts where they're super short, bite sized

18:48

episodes kind of similar to yours and Neil's.

18:50

Or's just five minutes ten minutes, sharing what's

18:52

working, sharing a lesson of what's working

18:54

in their business. The mindset of running a

18:57

business of that size. So I always try and

18:59

at least start my to a degree with

19:01

something like that, with something from Alex Alex

19:04

hermosy Hrmozi,

19:07

and I take a lot from their YouTube channel, from

19:09

their podcast, and then also, you know, like a good

19:12

marketer, just going through the ads that they're currently

19:14

running, see how they're currently marketing to

19:16

gyms and trying to model that you know in some way,

19:18

shape or form. Got it, love it? And

19:20

what's in your marketing stack right now? So don't

19:22

name everything, but maybe the most important tools

19:25

that you find yourself using every day. Yep.

19:27

So on the Facebook side, Magic's

19:30

m A D. I think it's cgic

19:33

X is probably the most used automation

19:36

tool that we have, just because

19:38

Facebook ads nowadays are very very volatile.

19:41

We could have one ad that generates, you know,

19:43

twenty thousand dollars profit one day and then it

19:45

just completely tanks the next. So

19:47

we have a lot of automation rules set

19:50

up in there where we can basically set

19:52

specific times in the day, and the way we do it is

19:54

we do it at nine am, twelve pm noon, and

19:56

then five pm at the end of the day. And

19:58

basically the way the automation the rules work is

20:00

they'll do specific checks on the

20:02

different metrics in a campaign, because usually

20:05

if a campaign starts off on the bad

20:07

foot at the start of the day, it's probably not going to turn

20:09

around later on the day. Usually it

20:11

just needs a fresh start the next day. So

20:13

basically what it does is it'll check you know, specific

20:16

metrics the cost per click, the click through rate, everything

20:18

like that at those specific times of the day, and if

20:20

it's below a certain threshold, it'll either

20:22

decrease the budget so it's not spending or wasting

20:24

as much money, or it'll completely kill the campaign

20:27

for that specific day so it doesn't waste

20:29

all of that money, and then at midnight the next day,

20:31

it resets everything and it starts fresh.

20:35

That's probably the most technical,

20:38

kind of like the most hands on software tool, and then kind

20:40

of just like on the business side, Rome Research

20:43

is a tool that I've been using a ton of over the last

20:45

couple of months. I've gone through like every

20:47

productivity, personal dashboard

20:50

thing I've tried, Apple notes, Notion bar

20:52

notes, like everything out there when it comes

20:54

to just keeping things organized. And Rome

20:57

Research, for those who don't know, is basically a

20:59

note taking too where you can link

21:01

every single page together. So if I'm you

21:03

know on this podcast and I type Eric's too,

21:06

then it'll automatically create a page of every

21:08

single note that I've created previously that

21:10

mentioned your name, Eric Sue. And it really

21:12

works well with my personality where I think I'm naturally

21:15

just a very unorganized person. I've always

21:17

struggled with just like figuring out like, oh,

21:19

what folder did I put that file in? Or where can

21:21

I find, you know, that thing I was talking about the other

21:24

day with you know, my sales guy. And Rome

21:26

does a really good job of kind of just making sure

21:28

that if you remember just one specific

21:30

detail, like oh, during that conversation we were

21:32

talking about Eric, if I just type in his name, it

21:34

does a really good job of finding all

21:36

of those things and kind of linking those thoughts together.

21:39

So I use that a lot in my business today. That's

21:42

interesting because I have Rome, I use every

21:44

note for for web clipping, I use Rome for kind

21:46

of a linked thoughts where it kind of my second

21:48

brain, and I use Notion as our internal

21:50

wiki. And so it seems like you use

21:53

Rome for everything correct, you know, kind of your daily

21:55

to do list and everything. So is that what

21:57

it is. Yeah, we use we just use

21:59

simple Google Drive on our business

22:01

for like SOPs and like internal

22:03

team files, but everything else basically

22:05

on my end in the business, I just throw it in Rome

22:07

and it seems to do pretty well that way. Got it. Do you

22:09

find yourself clicking on a links quite a bit to kind of review

22:12

your thinking? Yeah? Absolutely,

22:14

And that's honestly, like one of the biggest things for

22:16

me is just because it's like, especially in twenty

22:18

twenty one, there's so much information out

22:20

there that oftentimes, like with

22:22

any problem or any challenge I'm facing, I

22:25

find that I don't need to search

22:27

for new information. Usually it's probably

22:30

nested in something that I've already learned or I've already

22:32

heard, and it's just a matter of kind of reviewing,

22:34

you know, past things, past books that I've learned, past

22:37

podcasts that I've listened to, and it's usually somewhere

22:39

in there. So it does help a lot with like information

22:42

overload and just kind of decluttering the mind

22:44

that way. Great, And so

22:47

you know, one thing I've noticed too, I mean, look

22:49

for most people that are kind of your age right now,

22:51

if they're making you know, two three million bucks

22:53

a year, their egos starting to get bigger and bigger.

22:56

Right, it seems like you stayed pretty ground at least

22:58

from what I've seen so far. So do you want to

23:00

speak to that? I mean, is that something you've consciously worked

23:02

on, because especially in the Internet marketing world or

23:04

an affiliate marketing world, there is a lot of short termism,

23:06

and so that's something that is not the most ideal

23:08

in my mind, but go for it. Yeah, So

23:11

I definitely do always try and keep

23:13

it grounded, mostly just not buying

23:15

flashy things, which thankfully was never

23:17

one of my reasons for getting into this. Was

23:20

not just to buy a Rolex or a Lambeau or

23:22

anything like that, so that was never on my

23:24

to do list. But kind of, like you

23:26

said, with a lot of people

23:28

in the Internet marketing and affiliate game, the

23:30

campaigns that we have, the clients theoretically

23:32

could all leave the next day, and obviously

23:34

the odds of that happening are very very small.

23:37

But I think I'm just naturally a very pessimistic

23:40

and kind of always think about like the worst

23:42

case scenario, like, oh, like if every single one

23:44

of our campaigns died tomorrow, how would

23:46

we recover, how would we get back to the next

23:49

day. So I always kind of think

23:51

about it that way, and I think that does

23:53

help, and that we don't make extremely

23:55

rash decisions. We don't scale up campaigns

23:57

from like five thousand to fifty thousand dollars a day

23:59

and just say, let's see what happens, you know. So it's

24:01

very much the way that I think about business

24:04

is trying to think obviously in the short

24:06

term, obviously thinking about Okay, here's what

24:08

we need to work on for the next month, the next three

24:10

months, but also thinking about the long term

24:12

and that theoretically, if the offers

24:14

that we have, if the products and services that we're promoting

24:17

today no longer are catching people's

24:19

attention, if they die out, then what's kind

24:21

of the next step And always having one

24:23

to three steps initial

24:25

steps of a backup plan that I can always

24:28

kind of go off of, which I do think is different

24:30

compared to some entrepreneurs who I do

24:32

know and they do very well, that kind of have this

24:34

very grand vision of the business, saying Okay,

24:37

you know, if we're doing two to three million this year, we're

24:39

going to ten x that we're going to do twenty to thirty million

24:41

next year. And here's how we're going to spend all this money. We're gonna have

24:43

all these employees, which again I'm not saying

24:45

that's wrong, and I know a lot of people that have

24:47

that mindset with their business and they do incredibly

24:49

well. But it's never been that way with me,

24:51

and I think it's reflective both in the size of the

24:53

team that I have. I still have a very small

24:55

team. I'm still involved in the day

24:58

to day of the business a decent amount, and also

25:00

when it comes to, you know, kind of the core

25:02

aspect of our business, which is paid advertising,

25:04

I'm not incredibly aggressive. I'm not saying,

25:06

oh, let's one hundred x these budgets and you

25:09

know, make a ton of money by tomorrow. I am

25:11

usually thinking trying to think on slightly

25:13

longer timelines and thinking about how those changes

25:15

are going to affect the business over the next

25:17

six months, over the next year. So you mentioned

25:20

Jim launched a little earlier. Are there any other

25:22

kind of blogs or YouTube channels

25:25

or podcasts that you follow Rich

25:27

Scheffrin. I listened to him a decent amount.

25:29

He was the coach of a lot of like old school

25:31

marketers like Ryan Dice and Russell Brunson,

25:34

founder of click Funnels. He is a really

25:36

great marketer. And then also Todd Brown, who's

25:39

kind of in a similar bucket. Those are

25:41

most of the marketing

25:44

content that I consume. And then obviously both yours

25:46

and Neil's podcast very similar to

25:48

like I said, Alex Hermosis, where it's very bite sized,

25:50

it's very kind of like daily mindset,

25:53

daily action items, just one little thing that's

25:55

working. And usually I find that that kind

25:57

of content just meshes better with me

25:59

versus thirty minute sixty minute podcasts

26:02

or like five to ten hour clubhouse rooms.

26:04

I usually I did myself struggling to pay

26:06

attention, and then also like I was talking about

26:08

before, it's struggling to actually get cohesive

26:11

lessons out of all the noise,

26:13

the information overload, things like that. Got

26:15

it? I love that? All right? Final question from my side, what's

26:17

your favorite business book? Probably

26:20

Ready Fire Aim by Michael Masterson,

26:22

who was I think the head of growth at Agra,

26:25

that I think is just a very quintessential

26:28

business book, just especially with a

26:30

lot of business friends that are my age today

26:33

who are interested in like starting their own business. A

26:35

lot of people have the notion that oh, you need

26:37

to, you know, write out this long business plan, and

26:39

you need to go find investors. You need to do all

26:42

these million steps before you get your first

26:44

customer, when in reality, the most important

26:46

thing that I learned in my journey is that nothing

26:48

really exists. You don't really have a business until

26:50

someone's pull out their credit card and giving you money.

26:53

And on top of that, if I can cheat and have a second

26:55

guess. Other favorite book is this book

26:57

called The Third Door by Alex Bannion.

27:00

I think it resonated with me a lot because it's also about

27:03

a young kid who is very interested, you know, in business

27:05

and entrepreneurship. It's basically about

27:07

this college kid who has a dream of interviewing

27:09

like this long list of like a list celebrities,

27:12

basically people like Larry King, people like Tim Ferriss,

27:15

things like that. In the book is about how

27:17

in life in twenty twenty twenty twenty one,

27:19

in the digital age, there aren't really

27:22

any velvet ropes holding you back. If

27:24

you want to interview Warren Buffett,

27:26

if you want to interview Bill Gates and you want to

27:28

do it bad enough, you'll probably find a way.

27:30

In the book is basically about how he finds all these

27:32

ways through what he calls the Third Door. So it's a

27:34

really interesting book. It's kind of just an unconventional

27:37

way of thinking about business and thinking about life,

27:39

which I think a lot of people can benefit from.

27:42

Yep, we've had him on the Leveling Up podcast, so

27:44

you guys can check that out. Type in his name. Yeah,

27:47

just type in third Door Leveling Up. You'll find that one. And

27:49

then Michael Masterson by the way, so if

27:51

you guys all check out Amazon, he's got a ton of different

27:53

books. And I actually think he writes a blog and

27:56

that's not his real name, I believe,

27:58

so you know it is what it is. But definitely check

28:00

out all the books mentioned here. So,

28:03

Lucas, this has been great. What's the best way for our people to

28:05

find you online? Easiest way is

28:07

just through our website. Actually created a special url

28:09

if I can plug that just for the show. It's Growthcave

28:11

dot com slash Eric. There's going to be

28:14

special bundle for everyone that's listened to me talk

28:16

about my journey for this twenty minutes or so, and

28:19

then beyond that. My social media is

28:21

usually just my name Lucas Lee Tyson. The last

28:23

name is hyphenated, and I'm pretty sure there's not

28:25

another person on the planet that has that name, so

28:27

usually pretty easy to find. All right, Lucas,

28:29

thanks so much for doing this awesome. Thanks

28:32

so much for having me Eric. We

28:34

appreciate you joining us for this session of

28:36

Marketing School. Be sure to rate, review,

28:39

and subscribe to the show and visit marketingschool

28:42

dot io for more resources based

28:44

on today's topic, as well as access

28:46

to more episodes that will help you find

28:48

true marketing success. That's

28:50

marketingschool dot io until

28:53

next time. Class dismissed.