0:01

Welcome to Marketing School, the only

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podcast that provides daily top level

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marketing tips and strategies from entrepreneurs

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that practice what they preach and live

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what they teach. Let's start leveling

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up your marketing knowledge with your instructors,

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Neil Patel and Eric Sue. All

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right, guys, before we start, we got a special message

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0:50

Marketing School listeners, we got a special guest

0:52

for you today. Her name is Iris Shore

0:54

who She is the founder and CEO of

0:57

rib which is an alternative for Google

0:59

Onalytics. It provides actionable data

1:02

insights for funnel optimization and strong audience

1:04

segmentation. So I thought she would be great

1:06

for the show. You know, obviously we talk

1:08

a lot about you know, Google analytics is free.

1:11

But there's a lot of great solutions out there, and RIB

1:13

happens to be one of them. So Iris,

1:15

first and foremost, welcome to the show. How are you? I'm

1:18

great? Thank you? Yeah, so

1:20

thanks for thanks for joining tell us a little more. I mean I

1:22

gave a kind of high level overview what

1:24

is RIB kind of how do you guys separate

1:27

yourselves from the other solutions

1:29

that are out there? M very

1:32

can you mentioned other solutions? Maybe I can

1:35

address it better? Yeah, Google Analytics,

1:38

Okay, yeah, I think that this is like the main

1:40

point is it? So really

1:42

is made service stuff startup and I

1:47

started more on product and then

1:49

fell in love with marketing. And

1:52

something that I always found amazing is

1:54

how hard it is to answer

1:56

the very basic questions. So I'm not

1:58

speaking in right now on read deep

2:01

analysis of your audience and so on. So

2:03

just to understand like which content

2:05

converts, the how each campaign

2:07

is really doing and so on today

2:10

requires lots of resources.

2:12

And I think that the probably

2:15

like the main alternative unless you're

2:17

an enterprise company or a very very

2:19

techy company is Google Analytics. Everybody

2:22

use it and not many

2:24

people like it. I think it really

2:27

addresses like very professional users

2:30

with developers and so on. And what

2:33

we do is REBI, and

2:35

I think like the first problem that we decided

2:37

to tackle is as a barrier

2:40

of needing developers in order

2:42

to collect data. So today,

2:44

even if you're very data

2:47

driven you know how to work with Google Analytics,

2:49

you still need someone to

2:53

embed the code every time you want

2:55

to collect a new event. And if

2:57

you're part of a small company, you don't

3:00

have developers. If you're part of

3:02

a large company, you need lots of approvals

3:04

and time from the dev team, and it doesn't happen.

3:07

So the main technology to REB is around

3:09

collecting events.

3:11

And when I say events, it's everything that happens on

3:13

your site from ED two card to sign

3:16

up request, the demo, someone

3:18

who started a try, someone who stopped paying,

3:20

and so on, and without using code

3:22

at all, so we're able to really analyze

3:25

the website. We give you some kind of a catalog

3:27

and we suggest all the events, and

3:29

we collect all the buttons and pages in

3:31

a dynamic way. So if you add like a new button

3:34

of sign up with a different caption,

3:36

we'll know that it's part of this group and

3:38

then monitor all the data. It's also retroactive.

3:41

So let's say, for example that right now

3:43

we want to see if the webinar that we had

3:45

like six months ago really contributed

3:47

to sales, so I can ask this question. So

3:50

this is the first thing. So we collect all the events

3:53

without using code. We also export them

3:55

to other platforms, so we're able to create,

3:57

for example, an audience on FAI book

4:00

based on events that you defined in

4:02

the coldless way to reb without

4:04

developers, without asking favors. And

4:07

on top of it, we built a

4:09

very simple analytics to very simple

4:11

to understand. So, as I mentioned, Google

4:14

Analytics is very much oriented

4:17

to professionals and people with love

4:19

numbers. Many marketers they want

4:21

to be data driven, but they just

4:23

want to create funnels

4:25

and see what's broken and to

4:28

and to have like an attribution and

4:30

to know how each

4:32

channel will contribute to sell so on.

4:35

So it's really answering the basic

4:37

and most important questions without all

4:39

the hussle of creating

4:43

code based events, the reports

4:45

and so on. So data without developers

4:47

and without analysts. Got it? Okay,

4:50

that makes sense. And by the way, I'm looking at your website right

4:52

now, so RB dot io there's a

4:54

actually there's a comparison on RB versus

4:56

Google Analytics, and I think that's does a really good

4:58

job of explaining how it's different.

5:01

Would you say, iris that this

5:04

product is more of fit

5:06

for like a large publication or is it fit for

5:08

more like like a SaaS product, right, because I'm

5:10

talking to actually I'm talking to some of my developers right

5:12

now and they're like, oh, you know, we evaluated

5:15

it and it seems like it might be a good fit for clickflow,

5:17

which is our SaaS product, right, So what is your

5:19

response to that? Is it a fit for everybody or is

5:21

it more fit for certain types of products? Yeah,

5:24

so I got sure a

5:27

bit about our customer base today. So

5:29

today about half for customers

5:32

are coming from e commerce sites,

5:35

and we have about ten percent of SaaS

5:38

companies, and we have everything

5:40

else from like hospitals to MBA

5:42

teams to lots of different

5:45

and cool websites also marketing

5:47

agencies. Got it So

5:49

not really like if I had a large publisher

5:52

and I was driving like millions of visits. Not the right

5:54

fit, right, It can

5:56

be, but they think that it's mostly for websites

6:00

that generate revenue that you want

6:02

to track the behavior of users, where you

6:04

have lots of call to actions,

6:06

lots of activities, features

6:08

and so on. Got

6:11

it? Okay, And I'm just looking at your testimonials page.

6:13

Is there any one case study

6:15

you can speak to that's just like wow or the totally

6:18

did an amazing job and numbers are always great

6:20

too. Yeah,

6:22

not sore. I can mentioned the customer that just

6:25

like someone I spoke with yesterday,

6:28

but something that he shared

6:30

is just around like funnel optimization,

6:33

that they were really able to understand for

6:35

the first time what are

6:37

the most common paths of their

6:39

customers and then to analyze them.

6:42

And then they saw that something is broken on

6:44

a specific page that most people

6:46

over there live, like a very strong com

6:48

feature of for Rebi's correlations, so

6:50

you can ask, do people that

6:53

view the video of my homepage you are more

6:55

likely to buy or not? So they

6:57

use this feature and they discover that people

7:00

that read more of like their guides and

7:02

more data about their pricing actually

7:05

leave more. And they used

7:07

to send more traffic over there, and

7:09

they joined the funnel and we're able to

7:11

increase the conversions by twenty

7:13

percent. Wow, that is amazing to increase

7:16

there, you go increase convergerrate by twenty percent using

7:18

ORIB. I'm looking at some of your testimonials

7:20

here. This person said, I use RB

7:22

to increase traffic by around twenty percent in sixteen

7:24

hours by editing blog posts because ORB

7:27

has figured out the whole events and funnels thing. That's

7:29

one thing. And the other person said, ORB

7:31

is like having an analytics and data employee in my business

7:34

twenty four hours a day. So I'm almost selling myself

7:36

on it right now. But iris,

7:39

how do you guys make money? How do you price

7:41

in general? And all that? So it's

7:43

pretty straightforward. We have a

7:45

SESS model and you can pay

7:47

either monthly or annually. The

7:51

price starts at three hundred

7:53

and fifty dollars a month. It depends

7:55

on traffic, and I would

7:57

say the averagejet price is usually around like

8:00

five hundred or six hundred US

8:02

dollars. Got it? Okay? That sounds

8:04

good? And then is there any I mean, I think a lot of people

8:07

here might be, you know, starting out or their businesses

8:09

are not that events online. Is there kind

8:11

of like a trial option anything like that? No,

8:14

And the reason is they usually don't

8:16

need to really. I think that when you just

8:18

start out there, the website

8:20

is pretty small. You don't work with lots of channels,

8:23

you don't have tons of content to analyze.

8:25

So usually we see that Rebe

8:28

starts to provide value. If you

8:31

cost like the five ten k visitors

8:33

a months, if you have a very small website, it's

8:36

usually I think it's usually will get analytics.

8:38

Is enough? Got it okay? Makes sense? So

8:40

what would be the right size for people to start

8:42

exploring? Like what traffic size would be perfect?

8:45

I would say probably like five

8:48

thousand visitors a months and up? Got

8:51

it okay? Perfect? And what would you say is so five

8:53

thousand is good for starters, but what would be like a

8:55

sweet spot where they're really you know, doing amazing

8:58

stuff with it? And think

9:00

about like ten twenty k. It

9:02

depends on the business if it's more onund content

9:05

or maybe more, but I would say that

9:07

with most of our customers in

9:09

which they do have transactions

9:12

happening throughout the website.

9:14

So that's enough, got it okay?

9:16

And one thing I want to call out to you, I think it's helpful for people

9:18

to know is you've raised more than twelve point

9:20

four million dollars in funding. Correct? Well,

9:23

actually we just closed their serious BIS

9:25

so now it's twenty seven million. Congrats

9:28

on that. So when I say congrats on that, by the way,

9:30

I mean that's when the work is starting. I think most people should

9:32

understand that raising the money is one piece of

9:34

the puzzle. Right, So raising twenty

9:36

seven million dollars, what numbers can you share around

9:39

the business, because I want to get a sense for to tell people

9:41

kind of what they should be doing with the money, should

9:43

they be raising and all that type of stuff. So what kind of numbers

9:45

can you share? I can share the number

9:47

of customers that is close to one thousand

9:50

companies that are using go Rebus, like paying

9:53

customers. And

9:55

unfortunately I can't share the revenue.

9:58

That's totally fine. And so just so

10:00

people understand this, I mean, right

10:02

now, you know twenty seven million dollars raised, and

10:05

you might be thinking, oh, I don't want to give up any equity.

10:07

What iris? What would you say to that? You know, why raise

10:10

the twenty seven million? Why I start with twelve and then get

10:12

it up to twenty seven? What is the long term play

10:14

here? Yeah, it's a very

10:16

good question, and I can share that.

10:19

I also had so as I mentioned, this is

10:21

like my third company, I

10:23

had a huge question when I started

10:25

it, whether I want to raise money or not,

10:27

which kind of company do I want to start?

10:30

I think that's what led me is that I have a

10:33

very big vision around

10:35

the revie. I really think that something

10:37

is broken with the current market, and

10:40

in order to grow fast, I do think

10:42

that in most cases you need to raise money,

10:45

and I would say that once you start to raise money

10:47

from vcs, that's probably the round. So

10:49

I think that if I would, if I would

10:51

hold my current investors, that I

10:53

want to take everything slow, just to be like

10:55

very even I

10:58

didn't try it, but I don't think that it would worked

11:00

out well. And so once you take

11:02

money from VC, you need to show like

11:05

three x growths the year and to grow

11:07

fast. But I would say that

11:09

I think that if

11:12

you do have like a very wide

11:14

vision and you do want to take

11:16

over a large segment of the

11:18

market, would I would probably

11:20

raise money from VC. If

11:22

not, I think that the second option is also

11:24

great. Yeah. I mean to your point, Iris,

11:27

I mean kind of what you're addressing is

11:29

the total addressable market is very big

11:31

for this right and you're trying to kind of, you know, eat a

11:33

big part of the second A big segment

11:35

of it. And I think for most people, and

11:38

I always hit on it, the vision matters a lot.

11:40

So I think most people actually don't even think about

11:42

their vision. So it's really important to define

11:44

what you want. And if you want to have a

11:46

lifestyle business, that's you know, doing you know, a couple million

11:48

dollars a year and generating a good lifestyle

11:51

for there's nothing wrong with that word, right Some people write

11:53

down on it, but it's just a different goal here,

11:55

So there's there's nothing you know, it's just a different

11:57

way of doing it, right iris. Yeah, definitely.

11:59

I think that people really need to ask

12:01

themselves about how they

12:03

want to live. Like for example, when I started

12:06

a rebe, I knew that I

12:08

don't want to fly a lot and so

12:10

I decided that they don't want an enterprise oriented

12:13

company. So I really think that people need

12:15

to ask themselves like how do I want to live

12:17

and then decide what are my financial

12:20

goals and then decide which

12:22

kind of company to build. Got

12:24

it? And you mentioned earlier? Sorry, was it fifty

12:26

percent of your customers or e commerce? Correct? Yeah,

12:29

okay? And what percent are because you I'm looking at the website,

12:32

what percent are actually agencies and

12:34

probably twenty percent or agencies. We

12:37

do include them within the e commerce So if we have

12:39

an agency that represent e commerce

12:41

site, so it's part of the fifty percent. Got

12:43

it? And what's the selling point to working

12:46

with agencies? It's exactly

12:48

the same. We'd say we have some features

12:51

for agencies like why labeling,

12:54

health check where they can see all the domains

12:56

together, but they use it the

12:58

same scenits for them, being able to collect

13:00

events and data without asking

13:04

to have a permission to access the website

13:06

or to change it. It's really a game changer

13:08

for them, and they analyze all the different

13:11

channels and campaigns and in marketing

13:13

and content with the RIBBA instead

13:15

of Google Analytics. Got it. That's perfect.

13:17

And by the way, Alby does have a video

13:19

section on their site, so i'd recommend checking that outs.

13:22

I'm curious, what has been working for you in terms

13:24

of acquiring new customers? What's

13:26

been working really really well? So

13:30

the main channels that we're using is

13:32

paid advertising. My background

13:35

in marketing is like from really different

13:37

words of content and influencers

13:40

and communities. But

13:42

when I started a rebia, I decided to shift

13:44

because I think that it's easier to scale

13:47

with these channels, so

13:49

today we advertise mainly on

13:52

Facebook and Instagram and YouTube.

13:54

YouTube has worked really well for us

13:57

during the last year. I think it's much more

13:59

stable with like Q four with

14:01

all the e commerce and the elections,

14:03

so it was much easier to maintain

14:06

the same cost on YouTube.

14:09

I would also share that we see

14:12

even though we're very focused on paid acquisition,

14:15

I think that we have a very holistic view

14:18

of the funnel. So I think it's in

14:20

most cases where companies are very focused

14:22

on paid acquisition, it's mainly about optimizing

14:25

the bids the creatives,

14:28

and for us, it's an ongoing work of

14:30

optimizing the funnel. We have a

14:33

dedicated developer just

14:35

to work on the website and the

14:37

funnel, and

14:40

we our KPIs is to improve

14:42

the funnel all the time and to really match

14:44

it to everything that's happening on the pay

14:47

compaign. And I

14:47

think that I

14:49

would advise like I think most companies

14:52

they're very focused on getting more traffic

14:54

or cheaper leads and so on, and they

14:57

really missed opportunity of even

14:59

like changing two percent of how many

15:01

people convert to trial

15:04

or how many people sign up to them or

15:06

can make it you change. So for

15:09

us is like the entire flow from

15:12

the ad to pain customer got

15:14

it. So that's fascinating to me, right, because

15:16

you're an analytics product and you

15:18

are what would be intuitive when

15:20

you're saying paid ads is probably Google Search and

15:22

then LinkedIn, right, But you're you're actually doing

15:25

You're doing Facebook, Instagram and YouTube, So why

15:27

do you think it's performed so well on YouTube? So

15:30

I would also share about something that is working well

15:32

for us, and that's what you've saw on

15:34

the website of going ahead to head with Google Analytics.

15:37

I've never dreamed of taking this approach. When I

15:39

started the company, it was more about explaining the

15:41

value and I didn't want to

15:43

like trash on a different company. And

15:46

then we just found out that people

15:48

don't actively look for analytics

15:51

product because they're so used to Google Analytics.

15:54

But most people don't like it.

15:56

They're frustrated about it. And

15:58

I see that's what's working so well with

16:01

this platform. So we don't have a

16:03

use search volume. So search

16:06

is very like Google Ads. It's

16:09

very limited for us. But when

16:12

you're able to like really hit

16:15

them with the right messaging

16:17

or frustrated by Google analytics. Analytics

16:20

is old, looking for an alternative

16:22

which really works, so people don't

16:24

think that they need something new, But when they see the ads,

16:27

they try it out. And I think that's what's

16:29

working really well on YouTube, that they're able

16:31

to get the messaging.

16:33

It's easier to explain it then on Facebook

16:36

and then they just write out I would side it.

16:38

Probably like ninety eight percent of our customers,

16:41

they didn't have any intent, They

16:43

didn't search for a new tool. They just saw

16:46

this ad and decided to try it out, and so

16:48

that it's a better alternative, got

16:50

it? Yeah, I think that makes all the sense in the world, right.

16:53

I think when we talk about there's your creating

16:55

demand here, and so the position

16:58

makes a lot of sense because had you said just the orb

17:00

analytics, it probably would fall flat. But

17:02

because you're saying, hey, this is a better solution

17:04

to Google analytics, they're like, oh, the better solution.

17:07

And it sounds like you're hitting on a lot of pain points. How

17:09

did you land on that messaging? How did you get

17:11

there? One of the thing that

17:13

I'm always doing is just to brainstorm

17:16

as many different messaging as possible.

17:19

I think that We're very lucky to be

17:22

at an era of marketing and

17:25

where you don't need to be the smartest marketer.

17:27

You could just try out forty different

17:30

messaging types place like a

17:32

few hundred doors on Facebook,

17:34

see what people click on, then improve

17:36

it. So it was just like another idea and

17:39

I could share it. When

17:41

we uploaded the video that really was

17:44

against Google analytics, I was terrified

17:47

and what people are going to think about the brand, and

17:50

it performed really well, not only converting.

17:53

Also it's like it's very controversial. A lot

17:55

of people comment on it, other people

17:57

answer them, so we don't really need to

17:59

even step in. So I

18:02

think it's really about just like finding

18:04

what's is really

18:06

painful for people, and that's what we

18:08

discover. But it was by luck and

18:11

by trying out dozens of different

18:13

ads and videos got it. That

18:16

makes a lot of sense. And so when

18:18

you think about all the people

18:20

that come to you from Google analysts they start using it,

18:22

what would you say the number one benefit? You say,

18:25

is it like they're saying, oh my god, the funnels are

18:27

amazing, Like the funnel visualization is

18:29

the best. Like what's the thing they call out the most? Probably

18:32

funnels analyzing events,

18:34

like for example, they want to see all the requested

18:36

demos where they came from and

18:39

for the past like six months, and they could

18:41

do it easily. And maybe the

18:43

correlation features that's also a strong

18:45

one that that doesn't exist on Google Analytics.

18:48

And maybe the last

18:50

one is just visitor journeys. So that's

18:53

an interesting one because I think that usually

18:55

you see the value with like aggregated

18:57

data, and with the visitor journeys you can just

19:00

see for each visitor, for

19:02

each session what they've done. But

19:05

the thing, it's kind of like peeping to

19:08

for the first time to your users understand

19:10

what they do, what is the flow? And

19:12

people find it very interesting? Got

19:14

it, guys? I mean this is amazing. Right. I'm

19:16

not affiliated, I don't get paid commissions, but I'm saying,

19:18

look, Google Analytics, it does not have

19:21

a lot of the things we're talking so fun of visualization

19:23

oftentimes, I'm like, at least be

19:25

wanting more. Right and by the way, Google

19:27

Analytics, they're not incentivized and necessarily create

19:30

the best analytics free tool for you. Right,

19:32

it sounds like, you know, IRIS is figuring out a good

19:34

spot to kind of a good segment to an attack.

19:37

So iris working towards wrapping up here,

19:39

what would you say is your favorite

19:41

business tool that's not called or REB I

19:44

would say Figma probably.

19:46

I'm really trying to be connected to the product

19:49

all the time. I think that, like at a RIBS,

19:51

the marketing and product teams or work together.

19:54

And I seeing that in order to be a

19:56

good marketer you need to really understand the

19:58

product and vice versa. So

20:02

I like Figma because it really enables me

20:04

to see all the designs of the product

20:06

all the time, to qumment easily, to change

20:08

things easily. So and you see

20:10

that the entire team is using it to also

20:13

like to design a bit to change

20:15

the text, and so I like it, got

20:17

it And that's a good point. I mean you had

20:19

the foresight to be like, yeah, product

20:21

marketing should be working together. How is your

20:24

meeting cadence with these teams? How did

20:26

you make it work right? Because oftentimes it's not

20:28

like that. Yeah, I

20:30

think it's easier when the CEO is

20:32

very product and marketing oriented, but

20:35

I really see the product

20:37

as the main driver of the growth.

20:40

So even with other teams, it's super

20:42

important for me for them to really understand

20:44

the product, the value.

20:46

When we're onboard and new employee they

20:49

see like ten sales

20:51

calls and on boarding calls, they have

20:53

a test on all the features.

20:56

So I really think that people

20:58

need to understand what they're working on and what is the

21:00

value that we provide, and then

21:02

everything else becomes easier. Got

21:05

it? I love that earlier we talked about

21:07

culture and remote work. Is there? We can call it

21:09

another tool? What's your favorite kind of culture slash

21:11

remote work tool? I have to

21:13

say that I'm still looking for the

21:16

right dashboard to really

21:18

understand how everybody

21:20

is doing. I am who's

21:23

happy, who needs feedback,

21:25

who's loss? I really think

21:27

that like this period of COVID

21:30

is mainly about like the mental

21:32

situation of each one of us.

21:35

So I really looked for like a good dashboard

21:37

where you can see like the status of like

21:39

how you're feeling of everyone's

21:41

in the team. I didn't fund one yet,

21:43

but also just to like quickly see

21:46

and who is working on what, who needs help with

21:48

what? But they didn't find it yet, got

21:50

it? Irish? I'll give you two. I mean one we've

21:52

been using for eight years is called fifteen five,

21:54

So that's the number fifteen and five that's

21:57

been really good. But then during COVID,

21:59

we started using this free tool called Amplify.

22:01

It's an employee well being survey. We

22:04

send it like we used to send it like every two three weeks

22:06

or so. So we combine those two and those

22:08

make it really easy for us. But feel free to use

22:10

it if you want. Okay, sounds great. Yeah,

22:12

And then what would you say is the most your

22:15

favorite business book? I'll

22:17

share first, that's about like for

22:20

reasons, for like a decade, it

22:23

was clear that once I have some time to read,

22:25

it's going to be a business book or listen to a

22:27

podcast. And about

22:29

a year ago I decided that I

22:31

want to start reading fiction again and

22:34

fantasy books. And I think it really helped me

22:36

with work because I think that it's

22:39

it's really good break and

22:41

it helped me to become more

22:43

creative. But to answer

22:46

the question, I think that's one of my favorite

22:48

books is Lost and Founder of

22:50

frand fish Kin. I think that it really speaks

22:52

about the pest

22:56

of entrepreneurships and management

22:58

in a very sincere way. It's

23:01

all us your favorite fiction book. I've

23:03

just finished the book

23:05

His Dark Materials. It's a

23:08

fantasy book. So okay,

23:10

it's a really good one. I think you might have convinced

23:12

me because I actually have a lot of fantasy books that I haven't

23:14

read. I always just go back and I read business,

23:17

but I find that I get exhausted, you

23:19

know, because the whole day is busy. Yeah yeah,

23:21

cool, yeah yeah. I remember like a year ago

23:23

if that's like, open my audible

23:26

and done all the fiction book and said,

23:28

oh well this is nice and this is

23:31

not more relaxing. So that's good.

23:33

That's important. You talked about the kind

23:35

of mental stress for people, right, So Iris

23:38

is great. I know you have an offer for the audience

23:40

as well. So do you want to tell us the best way to find

23:42

you online and what the offer is? Yeah,

23:44

definitely. So you can enter a ribe dot

23:47

ao. We have an offer for you. So

23:49

you can enter a ribe dot io slash

23:51

marketing school and you can

23:53

use the marketing school and coop

23:55

and cold. It will give you twenty percent off

23:58

for the first three months. If you forget

24:01

about it, you can just write us on the chat

24:03

that you arrived via marketing school,

24:06

even if it's going to be a few months from now.

24:08

We'd love to see you using

24:10

Goribbian to hear your feedback all

24:12

right, Iris, thanks so much for doing us. Thank

24:15

you. We appreciate

24:17

you joining us for this session of Marketing

24:19

School. Be sure to rate, review, and

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subscribe to the show and visit marketingschool

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dot io for more resources based

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on today's topic, as well as access

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24:31

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24:33

marketing school dot io until

24:35

next time. Class dismissed