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the Million Brazilian wherever you

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find your favorite podcast. The

1:33

numbers are not going in the

1:36

direction the third with like them

1:38

to be going from American Public

1:40

media. This is marketplace. And.

1:51

In Washington, Dc I'm Kimberley Adams and

1:53

for Kai Raised all. It's Friday, April

1:55

Twenty six. Good to have you with

1:57

us capping out a week of big.

2:00

economic data releases, we got a

2:02

view this morning of the Federal

2:04

Reserve's preferred inflation measurement for March,

2:07

the Personal Consumption Expenditures Price Index,

2:09

or PCE. And

2:11

the headline? Core PCE, that's excluding

2:13

volatile food and energy, was up

2:15

2.8% from the year before, which

2:19

is still well above the Fed's 2% target.

2:23

That and much more to discuss with

2:25

so little time, but we have Catherine

2:27

Rampel with us from the Washington Post

2:29

and just Catherine today, but you are

2:31

more than enough. Happy Friday. Happy

2:34

Friday. You'll have to make do with only little of

2:36

me. I'm sure

2:38

we'll be fine, but let's talk about

2:40

PCE first, hotter than expected, but not

2:43

way hotter, but still not what the

2:45

Fed wants to see, right? Absolutely.

2:49

Look, it could have been worse, and

2:51

some other indicators that we saw recently

2:53

made it look like it could

2:56

be worse, but it's

2:58

still not great, definitely hotter than

3:00

the Fed wants to see. And

3:05

part of what was going on here is

3:07

that it seems like consumers were dipping

3:10

into their savings to keep

3:12

spending, and that may

3:14

be part of what's pushing prices higher

3:16

and higher. And I think there

3:19

are risks ahead. It seems pretty likely

3:21

that when the Fed next meets, they

3:24

will signal that they're a little less

3:26

confident than maybe they had been recently

3:28

about how quickly we can get back

3:30

to their target rate at 2%, as

3:32

you mentioned. And

3:34

so what that means for interest rates,

3:37

we'll have to see, but those rate cuts

3:39

may not be coming as soon

3:41

as many borrowers would like

3:44

to see them happen. Interesting.

3:46

You mentioned savings. We've got Henry up coming

3:48

up talking a little bit more about that savings

3:51

rate. But we also got

3:53

GDP numbers this week, and the US

3:55

economy is growing a little bit more

3:57

slowly than folks expected. talk

4:00

about what's holding things back and

4:02

sort of the interplay between

4:04

GDP and PC. So

4:08

the GDP numbers were

4:10

much lower than they

4:12

had been relatively recently, but I don't

4:15

think there anything to get too freaked

4:17

out about at this point. The

4:20

economy is still chugging along. We still

4:22

seem to be doing much better than

4:24

many of our peer countries abroad. But

4:28

you know, those inflation

4:31

numbers still not great. I know

4:33

that some people out there have

4:35

been uttering the dreaded S word,

4:38

the idea that you might have inflation and

4:41

stagnating growth. I don't think we are there

4:43

yet. The economy still looks relatively hot. And

4:45

I think if you kind of dig

4:48

into the guts of the GDP report, it

4:51

did not look quite as discouraging

4:53

in any event as

4:56

the headline number suggested. I

4:59

want to read a tweet from Diane Swank,

5:01

who is the chief economist over at KPMG

5:04

and also regularly on Marketplace

5:06

Morning Report. And she wrote this morning

5:08

on X, the data is in the

5:10

wrong direction for the Fed and reflects

5:13

the dry tinder that was ignited as

5:15

financial markets rallied and tried to front

5:17

and front run the Fed on rate

5:20

cuts starting in November of 2023.

5:22

That easing of

5:24

financial conditions stoked inflation and created

5:26

a floor which made it difficult

5:28

for the Fed to get inflation

5:30

to recede into the background, which

5:32

is the primary goal. Now the

5:34

Fed will be on hold on

5:36

its own monetary policy purgatory as

5:38

financial markets reverse. What's your take

5:40

on that? I

5:42

think that's quite possible. It did

5:44

look like the markets were getting

5:46

ahead of the Federal Reserve. We're

5:48

anticipating and pricing in rate

5:50

cuts certainly much sooner

5:53

than the Fed seemed to want

5:56

the markets to act anyway, wanted market

5:58

participants to act. which led

6:01

to loosening financial conditions. And

6:03

you know, as I just mentioned, and I you'll

6:06

go into later in the show, savings

6:09

rates are down, which means

6:12

that if consumers are still spending

6:14

as much as they had been

6:16

before or more, but

6:18

they're dipping into their savings, they may

6:20

need to be purchasing more things on

6:22

credit. And if credit

6:24

is easier to come by, financial

6:26

conditions are a little bit more

6:29

lax that will enable more and

6:31

more spending, which, you know,

6:33

all of that stuff feeds into inflation, feeds

6:35

into price growth. So all of

6:37

these things are connected. Certainly

6:39

possible as Diane hypothesized

6:42

that part of the issue

6:45

here is that the Fed's

6:47

intended tightening of financial conditions

6:49

has not been quite

6:51

as tight as they intended

6:54

maybe because markets were

6:56

getting ahead of them. But again, there's a lot of

6:58

other stuff going on here, too. I think consumers really

7:00

got used to spending. We saw

7:02

a huge spending spree that began earlier

7:05

in the pandemic for for goods

7:07

in particular that hasn't really abated.

7:09

And so

7:11

as long as there's that really strong

7:13

demand out there enabled either

7:16

by income gains

7:18

and or credit, that's

7:20

going to help push prices further. And unless

7:22

you see some major supply side changes in

7:26

the minute or so we have left, I

7:28

mean, we saw consumer sentiment is down. But

7:30

as you said, the spending remains strong.

7:33

Do you think consumers, aka

7:35

us, have just kind of baked

7:38

in and accepted inflation or, you know, have

7:40

we ever really done the thing that people

7:42

predicted we were going to do, which is

7:44

change our spending habits based on inflation? Usually,

7:49

there's this line that economists say

7:51

that the cure for high prices is high

7:53

prices. That basically,

7:55

when prices get really

7:58

high, They

8:01

discourage people from buying

8:03

stuff and that in

8:06

and of itself should lead to

8:08

either lower prices or at

8:10

least slower price growth. We

8:14

have seen slower price

8:16

growth but not quite,

8:18

as we've been discussing, not quite where the

8:20

Fed wants it to be. It's

8:23

not clear why. I don't know, again,

8:25

if consumers kind of got used to

8:28

spending as much as they have been.

8:30

Again, at some point they should hit some limits, particularly

8:33

if their incomes are not able to

8:36

sustain that increased level of spending. Or

8:43

I don't know, people are feeling flush. For

8:46

lots of other reasons, the value of

8:49

their homes, for example, have gone up.

8:52

So that wealth effect may also be enabling more

8:54

spending. But I think it's a bit of a

8:56

puzzle at this point. Dissertations

8:59

on that to come, I'm sure, in the

9:01

next couple of years. Katherine Rampell at the

9:03

Washington Post, thank you so much. Thanks,

9:06

Kimberly. On Wall Street today,

9:08

tech stocks help push the markets up. We'll

9:10

have the details when we do the numbers. So

9:46

as we were just mentioning, that PCE report we

9:48

got today did give us a bit of insight

9:50

into the financial health of American

9:52

households, specifically how much money we're

9:54

saving right now. That's the personal

9:57

saving rate that Katherine was talking

9:59

about. how much money we're able

10:01

to keep after we finish spending. And

10:03

that declined a bit to 3.2%, which

10:07

is the lowest level since October of

10:09

2022. Henry

10:11

Epps has more on that. Generally,

10:13

when the personal saving rate dips, it's not

10:15

a great sign for a lot of American

10:18

households, says Angela Fontas, Vice President of Policy

10:20

and Research at the Financial Health Network. We

10:23

start to be concerned about

10:25

households' ability to withstand

10:27

financial shocks. If,

10:30

unfortunately, that car were to break down

10:32

or they needed to replace an appliance.

10:34

But Americans are choosing to spend more right

10:36

now rather than save for those potential

10:39

shocks for a few reasons. For one,

10:41

everything consumers buy has gotten more expensive,

10:43

says Mark Hamrick at Bankrate. They

10:45

resent the high prices that they're seeing,

10:48

but nevertheless think, you know, let's go

10:50

ahead and spend. Two, a

10:52

lot of people may still be holding on

10:54

to some of the money they stored away

10:56

during the pandemic, says Tim Quinlan, Senior Economist

10:58

at Wells Fargo. When you've got a

11:00

full piggy bank, you don't feel like you have to set

11:02

aside as much from each paycheck. And

11:04

three, high-income Americans have an appetite

11:06

for some risky investment bets right

11:08

now. Joe Brusuela says Chief Economist

11:10

at RSM. If their appetite

11:13

for risk is enhanced, savings rate tends

11:15

to fall because they're reallocating assets

11:18

out of liquid-guaranteed accounts into more

11:20

riskier accounts. Brusuela says

11:22

that appetite for risk could grow even more

11:24

if central banks around the globe start cutting

11:26

interest rates. And I would not

11:28

be surprised to see the overall savings rate fall on

11:30

the back of that. And he

11:32

says investing money instead of just socking it

11:35

away could be a sign of confidence in

11:37

the economy. I'm Henry Ann for Marketplace. Speaking

11:44

of confidence, if you want to make sure

11:46

that you have all the news you need

11:48

to start your day confidently, David Brancaccio and

11:50

the team have you covered on the Marketplace

11:52

Morning Report. Check them out every morning or

11:55

wherever you get your podcasts. Despite

12:11

the jump in remote work that

12:13

began during the pandemic, only about

12:15

half of U.S. workers have ever

12:18

worked remotely, according to polling from

12:20

Gallup, and most only do it a few

12:22

days a month. But for the

12:24

folks who are fully remote, four years

12:27

in, for some, it's getting

12:29

a little lonely. And that's a

12:31

business opportunity for event planners.

12:33

In cities from Dallas to

12:35

Los Angeles, they're organizing pop-up,

12:38

co-working events at small businesses.

12:40

KCRW's Megan Jamerson reports.

12:46

Inside a cafe in Los Angeles' Korea

12:48

town, about a dozen people are gathered

12:51

in a circle for an icebreaker.

12:53

That's Daniel Che, his company, L.A.

12:55

and Common,

13:03

organized this co-working event for remote

13:05

workers. For the last hour, people

13:07

from all different industries have been

13:09

clacking away on their laptops. Usually,

13:12

co-working is where people buy a membership

13:14

to a shared office space. But this

13:17

event is at a cafe to bring

13:19

remote workers here during slow hours.

13:22

I thought this would be a good opportunity to

13:24

meet people who are in similar

13:26

situations and to decide about working

13:28

from home situations. Alice

13:30

Cho's worked remotely since 2020 for

13:33

the United Nations. According to

13:35

Pew Research, about 22

13:37

million Americans, like Cho, are

13:39

still working remotely. This

13:41

can be great for some workers.

13:43

No commutes, flexibility for picking up

13:45

the kiddos. But others say it's

13:48

really isolating, including Matt Cleve. He's

13:50

a writer and an actor. And

13:52

yes, even he works from

13:54

home. Everything's self-tape auditions

13:56

or Zoom auditions. He's

13:59

here. to get some face-to-face interaction.

14:02

I feel like I'm still stuck in that pandemic

14:05

stay-at-home mindset and routine, even though things

14:07

have opened back up now for a

14:09

while. Loneliness is

14:11

a big problem in America. The

14:14

U.S. Surgeon General declared it an

14:16

epidemic last year. Daniel Che

14:18

says there is an overlap of people

14:20

who want connection. As well

14:22

as they have the ability to work

14:24

from home or hybrid, why not bring

14:26

those two together and kind of create

14:29

an experience as a solution? Something

14:32

that sets these events apart is that they

14:34

start cheap. WeWork charges about $200 a month

14:36

or $30 for a co-working day pass. Che's

14:41

events are around 15 bucks. And

14:44

these pop-ups are becoming more common. Andrea

14:46

Ramirez is another event organizer. Her model

14:49

is to ask bar owners if she

14:51

can use their space during the day,

14:53

when the bar's closed. We

14:55

bring the people, they provide the space,

14:57

and we share the joys of our

15:00

labor. Ramirez's company

15:02

is called The Next Fun Thing, and

15:04

she shares a portion of the $18

15:07

ticket revenue with the bar owners. To

15:09

be clear, if there's no alcohol, it's

15:11

coffee only. She says the

15:13

pop-ups can kind of feel like a

15:16

library with everyone focused and quiet on

15:18

their laptops. But now, as people become

15:20

regulars, they're starting to form

15:22

this, like, co-worker-like relationship

15:25

with each other, where people

15:27

are naturally mingling

15:30

and networking, which is beautiful. Back

15:34

at the coffee shop event, Hannah Lee,

15:36

who is a podcaster, says if so many

15:38

of us are working remotely, it's nice

15:40

to be together. If we're

15:42

all separately in our home, just

15:44

all our laptops, like, staring at the screen, might

15:46

as well, like, you know, say hi, chit chat

15:48

a little bit, and then also be productive. She

15:51

says she didn't make any new besties,

15:53

but that's okay. I think I

15:56

just, like, enjoy the small interactions of, like,

15:58

oh, maybe you're just a... passing

16:00

person in my life, that could be it. Which

16:03

is just enough to feel less lonely in our

16:05

work from home world. In

16:07

Los Angeles, I'm Megan Jamerson from Market

16:09

Place. Coming

16:16

up, our

16:20

average dollar amount per sale is up,

16:34

even though we have less purchases.

16:37

As long as those numbers are going up though,

16:39

right? But first, let's do the numbers. As

17:40

the mass surged more than 27% on earnings and revenues atop

17:44

analyst expectations, the company cited

17:46

growth in its digital advertising

17:48

business. Bonds rose, the yield on

17:50

the 10-year T-note fell to 4.66%, and

17:54

you're listening to Market Place. With

18:02

access to so much information, it's hard

18:04

to feel like an informed, discerning citizen.

18:07

That's why on Make Me Smart, which is

18:09

a podcast from Marketplace, we make it easy

18:11

for you to stay in the know. Hi,

18:13

I'm Kai Rizdahl. Every weekday, Kimberly Adams and

18:15

I unpack the latest from Washington, D.C. The

18:18

Senate minority leader has announced that he will

18:21

step down as a Republican leader. What's

18:23

happening in AI? I mean,

18:26

don't buy at the top, but holy

18:28

cow, artificial intelligence and all the companies

18:30

related to it are the hot new

18:33

thing. And we do the

18:35

numbers. So as a refresher,

18:37

inflation is the rate of

18:39

increase in the prices of things. It's not

18:42

just sort of things getting more expensive, it's

18:44

a speed at which things get more

18:46

expensive. Because in a world that's constantly

18:48

changing, we all need to stay smart.

18:51

Listen to Make Me Smart, wherever you get your podcasts.

18:56

This is Marketplace. I'm Kimberly Adams.

18:58

A big deadline is coming up

19:00

for people with federal student loans.

19:04

Borrowers with certain kinds of loans need to

19:06

consolidate by this Tuesday, April 30th. And

19:09

that involves basically refinancing with the

19:12

federal government in order to be

19:14

eligible for debt cancellation through two

19:16

existing programs, income driven

19:18

repayment and public service loan

19:21

forgiveness. This is Samantha

19:23

Fields reports. Jordan Pope-Roush was

19:25

18 when he first took out student

19:27

loans in the late 90s. I

19:30

went to two private schools for undergrad

19:32

and then for graduate school. Emory

19:34

University for college, then the University

19:36

of Southern California for his MFA

19:38

in screenwriting. I think when I

19:41

finished USC, I want to say I owed like $130,000

19:43

total. At

19:47

the time, he was told it was good debt. It's

19:49

not. There is no good debt. Pope-Roush

19:52

is 42 now and he is

19:54

still paying those student loans. He's got about $60,000

19:56

left. But

19:58

Recently he mentioned all this to a student loan. the friend

20:00

who works on student loans. And she started bugging

20:02

him to consolidate his. He did that before

20:05

April thirtieth. She told him he would be

20:07

eligible to have the rest of his that

20:09

forgiven, likely in just a few years. That

20:12

he may I add, the nonprofit Institute

20:14

A Student Loan Advisors says that's because

20:16

of something the Department of Education and

20:18

doing right now called the One Time

20:20

Account Adjustment. Catchy, I know, Essentially

20:23

what it is is saying. listen. We.

20:26

Don't think that the industry as

20:28

a whole get a good job

20:30

communicating to bars about the existence

20:32

of the income driven plans. Income

20:34

driven repayment plan to been around in

20:37

some form since the mid nineties. They

20:39

allow people with federal student loans to

20:41

make monthly payments based on their income.

20:43

Those payments are often lower than they

20:45

would be on a standard tenure repayment

20:47

plan, so it takes longer to. Repay

20:49

the whole loan. Or one of

20:51

the things that they tend to these id our

20:53

plan is that if you're on them for either

20:56

twenty or twenty five years and he saw a

20:58

balance a forgive the balance. At least

21:00

that's how it's supposed to work. In

21:02

reality, Happy Safra at the National

21:05

Consumer Law Center says very few

21:07

people were actually getting that forgiveness.

21:09

Decades of loan servicing mistakes and

21:12

systemic failures. Across the federal, student

21:14

loan programs have prevented most farmers from

21:16

getting credit for all their time and

21:18

repayment, meaning that borrowers were stuck in

21:20

that when they should have been eligible

21:23

for loan forgiveness. The Biden

21:25

ministration is trying to six those past

21:27

mistakes by reviewing every borrowers accounts that's

21:29

more than forty million people and giving

21:32

them credit. for years have passed, payments

21:34

nearly a million, have already had their

21:36

loans forgiven through Id Are, and many

21:39

more are years closer. To

21:41

my peers at the non profit Student

21:43

Borrower Protection Center says not everyone is

21:45

currently eligible. You need to have

21:47

the right type of loan to get your deck

21:50

cancelled under income driven repayment. And. A

21:52

lot of people dead. aid or loans

21:54

made by sallie mae or made by

21:56

city bank or other big banks back

21:58

before 2010, they didn't have the same

22:00

rights and protections that are available to

22:02

people that have newer loans made by

22:04

the federal government. And so to be

22:07

able to take advantage of these debt

22:09

relief opportunities, you need to turn your

22:11

older loan into a loan made by

22:13

the federal government. Jane Fox

22:15

at the Association of Legal Aid Attorneys Union

22:17

says a lot of people who could benefit

22:20

from this temporary fix still don't realize it.

22:23

There has been very little direct

22:25

outreach to borrowers from the Department

22:27

of Education. To anyone

22:29

who's hearing this who's not sure what kind of

22:32

loan they have, Fox says now is the time

22:34

to find out. Generation X,

22:37

elder millennials, the people who are

22:39

really going to be impacted by

22:41

the IDR account adjustment, take the

22:43

10 minutes to look into this,

22:45

to make a phone call, to

22:48

go on studentaid.gov. Before

22:50

Tuesday, it could pay off in a big

22:53

way. I'm Samantha Fields

22:55

for Multi-Paste. At

23:17

the end of the show, Catherine and

23:19

I were talking about the macro picture

23:21

on inflation and consumer spending. There

23:23

is, of course, the micro picture of

23:26

what it's like to be running a

23:28

business where those consumers are spending. We

23:31

gave one of our retail regulars a

23:33

call. Annie Lang Hartman runs the greeting

23:35

card and gift store, Wild Lettie, in

23:38

Leelanau County, Michigan. We definitely

23:40

feel like we called a shoulder

23:42

season, so it's between that flow season and

23:45

that busy tourist season where you

23:48

never know what the day is going to be. During the

23:50

week, it could be a $0 day. We

23:56

have $0 days all the time this time of year, or

23:58

it could be a really great day during the week. But

24:01

weekends is where we make our money so

24:04

it's really all over the place. You can't really

24:06

plan on busyness this

24:08

time of year. We

24:12

are both up online and in

24:14

store. I

24:16

honestly was surprised when I was looking

24:18

at it this morning. Our average dollar

24:20

amount per sale is up even though

24:23

we have less purchases which

24:26

makes it feel slow but we're still

24:28

doing good. Our

24:31

busy season is going to pick up just in

24:33

a month and I think my

24:37

biggest thing is we work with manufacturers

24:39

to make our own products and coming

24:41

off a slower season like

24:44

having the stomach to spend a lot

24:46

of money trying to

24:48

be as smart as possible when

24:50

we're making new products

24:53

is something that's a

24:56

big stressor to me right now. The

25:00

only thing that we've seen change for

25:03

costs have been our utilities. I

25:06

feel like when we first started out our

25:09

utility costs were just a few hundred dollars

25:11

a month and now it's a

25:13

thousand dollars a month. I haven't looked

25:16

at it recently but every time I do look

25:18

at it I'm like holy cow. As

25:21

far as products we did up

25:24

our prices of our greeting cards

25:26

to accommodate the rising costs

25:29

elsewhere. I

25:34

just really want to see people

25:36

come in the door and see

25:38

our customers that we

25:40

only get to see a few times a year when they're

25:43

here for the summer and locals

25:45

coming back to say hi and a

25:48

lot of what we sell are products that I

25:50

make and I design and I get so much

25:52

joy out of creating

25:54

because I am a creative person and I

25:56

think knowing that

25:59

that business of that

26:01

passion is kind of what keeps

26:04

me motivated 90% of the

26:06

time. When I'm in the

26:11

store they're talking like, oh who

26:13

does all the artwork? I'll say, oh the owner

26:15

of the shop, she does all the artwork. Because

26:20

I have a really hard time taking

26:22

compliments. Annie

26:33

Lang Hartman trying to take compliments

26:35

at her business Wild Letty spacing

26:38

Leland Auchenie, Michigan. This

26:46

final note on the way out

26:48

today, at last, a bit of positive

26:50

news in the media industry. Satirical website

26:53

The Onion will be continuing with its

26:55

funny takes on the news. Private equity

26:57

backed GEO media had reportedly been trying

26:59

to sell the site along with others

27:01

in its portfolio for a while. Now

27:04

The Onion has a buyer, a new

27:06

company called Global Tetrahedron, that name being

27:09

a nod to a fake company Onion

27:11

staffers created in 1999. Speaking of Onion

27:15

staff, the new CEO Ben Collins

27:17

posted on X that the new

27:19

company will be keeping the entire

27:21

staff and bringing back the Onion

27:23

News Network. Our theme music

27:26

was composed by BJ Leaderman, Marketplace's executive

27:28

producer is Nancy Cargali, Donna Tam

27:30

is the executive editor, Neil Scarborough

27:32

is the vice president and general

27:34

manager, and I'm Kimberly Adams. Have

27:37

a great weekend. With

27:58

access to so much information It's hard

28:00

to feel like an informed, discerning citizen.

28:02

that's why on make me smart pushes

28:04

apart. As for Marketplace, we make it

28:06

easy for you to stay in the

28:08

know. I am far as doll. Every

28:11

weekday Kimberly items and I unpack the

28:13

latest from Washington D C. as. His

28:15

Senate minority leader has announced that he will

28:17

step down as a. Republican. Leader:

28:19

What's happening in A I. I

28:22

mean don't fight the top but holy

28:24

cow artificial intelligence and always I'm usually

28:26

to do with par the the hot

28:28

new. And we do

28:31

the numbers. So as a

28:33

refresher, inflation is the rate.

28:35

Of increase in the prices of things

28:37

not to sort of things getting. More

28:40

expensive at the speed at which things get.

28:42

More expensive because in a world it's

28:44

constantly changing, we all need to stay

28:46

smart, Listen to makes me smart. Wherever

28:48

you get your pockets.