0:09

Welcome to material World, where we discovered

0:12

the stories behind all the things you're spending

0:14

your money on. Where your hosts I'm Jenny

0:16

Kaplan and I write about all the things you drink

0:19

and smoke for Bloomberg News. And I'm

0:21

Lindsay Repp, I write about retail for Bloomberg.

0:25

Lindsay, I need to talk to you about something. I'm

0:27

spending more and more of my time,

0:30

energy and money focused on fitness.

0:33

I know I've got a similar problem. I was running

0:35

on the treadmill this morning at the gym thinking about

0:38

all the money I'm spending on this. I mean, I buy

0:40

buy clothes, and I

0:43

pay for this gym membership, and I buy

0:45

these fitness trackers. I'm constantly

0:47

shelling out money to try to get fitter. Yeah,

0:50

we even had an office wide fitness competition

0:53

recently. People got so

0:55

into it i opted out. One

1:00

estimate puts the global market for all that

1:02

stuff I was talking about buying at about

1:04

a half a trillion dollars. Meanwhile,

1:07

we're also seeing historic obesity

1:09

rates in this country. According to a Journal

1:11

of the American Medical Association study

1:13

released in two thousand fifteen, seventy

1:16

percent of men and sixty seven percent

1:18

of women ages twenty five and older we're overweight

1:21

or obese. In the US as of two thousand

1:23

twelve, twenty years ago, it

1:25

was just sixty of men and of

1:28

women. What's happening here? How

1:30

did we as a society get this split

1:32

personality? What's causing this fitness

1:35

obsession? Well, I think there

1:37

are a couple things that happened

1:39

over the last call it years,

1:42

I think, and and to me it comes

1:44

down to kind of generation and gender

1:47

in a lot of ways. That's Jason Kelly.

1:49

He's our New York Bureau chief, and he recently

1:51

wrote a book about the business of fitness called

1:54

Sweat Equity Inside the New Economy

1:56

of Mind and Body. Generationally,

1:59

I think baby boomers in

2:01

many ways kicked off this trend. If you go back,

2:04

sort of way back to Richard Simmons, I know

2:06

what you want to do, now, walk with

2:08

me and walk up run and Jane

2:10

Fonda the Ultimate

2:12

workout. You should have your running shoes

2:15

on so we can go right into Arabics without

2:17

stopping. And don't forget the kind of

2:19

rise in video

2:22

workouts. And and also you start to

2:24

see the proliferation of Jem's

2:26

back then, But importantly, those

2:29

baby boomers had millennials,

2:32

and they raised millennials in a way

2:34

that really much more emphasized a

2:36

healthier lifestyle that

2:38

was much more sort of holistic in the

2:40

in the classic sense of eating

2:43

better, getting out and

2:45

moving around and and just being sort

2:48

of a more fit person. So

2:51

that's the generational piece. The gender piece is really

2:53

that as Title nine, which you know

2:56

sort of legislated equality

2:59

for girls and women

3:01

and young women, you know, as that really

3:03

sort of played through the system. You had a whole

3:05

generation of women who

3:08

played sports growing up and once they played

3:10

sports growing up, but it wasn't like they were going to graduate from

3:12

college and be like, yeah, that was cool

3:14

when I was fit, and I'm not going to be anymore.

3:17

Um so, and and women, as you as you guys

3:19

know from from all your great work control

3:22

you know, somewhere upwards

3:24

of seventy of household

3:26

spending. So when you're

3:29

when you have that mindset and you're in charge

3:31

of spending money, you're going to spend money

3:33

on different things. So

3:39

according to Jason, it sounds like baby

3:41

boomers passed their quest for fitness

3:43

down to their millennial children. That

3:45

makes sense from my personal experience. I'm a millennial

3:48

and my baby boomer parents definitely passed

3:50

on a focus on well being, right.

3:53

I mean, you were talking just the other day about

3:55

your dad's latest fitness obsession,

3:57

so we thought would be a good idea to call

4:00

Jenny's dad, Randall Kaplan to

4:02

talk to him a little bit about his fitness

4:04

journey.

4:12

I would say, in the last ten years,

4:14

as technology has improved, UM,

4:16

we've kind of jumped on the bandwagon. Whereas

4:19

we still do personal training,

4:21

which helps force us to

4:23

to get our exercise. UM,

4:26

we also have UM bought

4:28

exercise equipment like

4:31

treadmills and ellipticals,

4:34

and UM have most

4:36

recently gotten what I think

4:39

is the coolest and

4:41

the next generation of kind

4:44

of exercise equipment, which is we we got

4:46

that a Peloton bike, which

4:48

allows us to actually participate in classes

4:50

even though we're down here in Greensboro, North Carolina.

4:53

I get to have world class

4:55

spinning classes with great

4:58

instructors, with great muse and

5:00

I feel like I'm right there in the class,

5:03

and it drives me to a level

5:05

of exercise that I wouldn't

5:07

do on my own. So when I get on my

5:09

elliptical, I'm not going to force myself,

5:11

like when you're in a class being driven

5:13

by an instructor. I feel like

5:16

I'm right there, but I can do it on my own

5:18

time schedule. You know,

5:20

That's what's really changed for me in terms

5:22

of exercise. In addition to things like wearing

5:25

garment watches or my I

5:28

I watch, or things

5:30

that measure how much exercise I'm getting

5:33

um which also keeps me aware

5:36

of whether I'm

5:38

getting fit. It fits

5:40

together to make being healthy a little

5:42

bit easier. One thing that we've been hearing is

5:44

that it's your generation that's passing it

5:46

on to their children. And now people like Jenny

5:49

are willing to shell out

5:51

all sorts of money for classes and

5:53

apparel, and we really care about

5:56

fitness in a in a much cheaper way than

5:58

maybe we would have. I think it probably

6:01

is true that, you know, people are going

6:03

to fitness centers and and

6:05

being part of classes and just putting

6:07

it into their kind of It's part of the social

6:10

environment, uh for

6:13

for the for your generation. My

6:20

dad's not the only person who's gotten into

6:22

the cycling game. People are obsessed

6:24

with soul Cycle and Flywheel and

6:26

the other big indoor cycling classes.

6:29

The Netflix original show Unbreakable. Kimmy

6:31

Schmidt did a whole episode about it that

6:35

was amazing. I really focused on

6:37

my me. I didn't think about anything else. Isn't

6:40

it refreshing? Next time, Let's

6:42

go early so we can get bikes next to we to Oh, Jimmy,

6:45

you can't ride in the front row with me. Tristophe

6:48

will summon you forward when you've earned it. I'll

6:50

never forget where I was when Tristophe asked

6:52

me to join the front row. I was

6:54

in spin class. I beg,

6:56

you'll be moving up soon. He must have had an amazing

6:59

trainer down in the book care I

7:02

love that show. It's take on spinning maybe

7:04

a little bit harsh, but it does have some

7:07

truth to it. We wanted to get a better

7:09

grasp on the business behind these classes,

7:11

so we reached out to Peloton's co founder

7:14

and chief operating officer, Tom

7:16

Cortes. Tom and the rest of

7:18

the team founded Peloton in two thousand twelve.

7:21

He said he liked indoor cycling and

7:23

other parts of the class based fitness boom,

7:25

but didn't necessarily have the time or capacity

7:28

to go to the classes. The team

7:30

wanted to create a way to get that same kind of experience

7:33

at home. So for someone like my dad,

7:35

he can get the feel of a class without having to leave

7:37

the house. What

7:42

you guys do is pretty unique in the fitness

7:44

industry, I would say, But do see the

7:46

sort of the industry kind of

7:48

moving more in that direction of connected

7:51

fitness? How how have you sort

7:53

of seen the business of fitness change over time?

7:55

And what are you looking at for the future? Yeah?

7:57

I mean, for one, I think we all love being

8:00

together, right, and I don't think you ever replaced

8:02

that, and I don't think we should. That sounds like

8:04

a dangerous world that I don't need

8:07

to be a part of um. And so

8:10

you know, the way we've focused on it at

8:12

Peloton is how do you how

8:14

do you take all of that togetherness and the motivational

8:16

power of being among a group,

8:18

of having a real

8:21

live instructor there to to motivate you and

8:23

talk to you directly. How do you take all of that

8:25

and bring it to the comfort and convenience

8:29

of your own home. Because the truth

8:31

of the matter is, while we'd all love

8:33

to be together all of the time, or at least some

8:35

of us, UM, we don't

8:37

all have that opportunity I've got

8:39

two young kids at home, and I

8:41

would rather spend twenty extra minutes

8:44

a day with them than twenty

8:46

minutes driving to and from the gym. And

8:49

so it's amazing that now when I wake

8:51

up in the morning, I can hop on my bike at at

8:53

six, be done at sixty five in

8:55

the shower, ready to ready to go. They

8:58

wake up at seven, I could spend an hour with that and

9:00

then go to work. And that's something that's afforded to

9:02

me by this intersection of fitness

9:04

and technology and by my bike.

9:08

So in terms of like the business factor,

9:10

I mean that I how is that changing

9:12

and where do you see the business moving forward?

9:15

Yeah? So, um, the business

9:17

of fitness, I mean, you know, we've we've studied

9:20

for the last number of years, specifically

9:23

indoor machines right

9:25

as as one part of it, and we've studied at

9:27

home exercises, the Jane Fonda

9:29

videos of yesterday, um,

9:32

and sort of how it's sort of evolved

9:35

or not evolved into kind of

9:37

streaming extreaming media today. UM.

9:40

I think this idea of you know, a

9:43

approachable workouts, right, Um.

9:46

Um, training always has its

9:48

place, right, there's always I've

9:50

competed in iron Man and and marathon.

9:52

I understand what it means to train. I

9:54

don't want to do that all the time. UM

9:58

so so approachable, rogible fitness,

10:00

UM, convenient fitness UM.

10:03

So you know this whole idea that it could

10:05

be. It could be in my home, but I don't always

10:07

want to do it in my home. I want to I do

10:09

sometimes want to be among among

10:11

real people and and in real setting.

10:14

So having that that choice and that variety rights

10:16

and that's where you start to see kind of moving

10:18

away from the mega gym to UM

10:21

the class pass model, and the and

10:23

and the different boutiques, because now I can kind

10:25

of go to those different style workouts

10:28

and be among different style people

10:30

in different style instructors, and I can I can

10:32

have that variety, and then you add in things

10:34

like Peloton, and now I can also have all of that

10:36

joy and excitement at home. Right. So

10:39

you know, variety and approachability

10:41

I think are are are important and influencing

10:45

where we go as a as a fitness I guess,

10:47

in terms of Peloton specifically, what

10:49

is your ultimate growth strategy?

10:51

I mean, you're you guys hoping to I mean we we know

10:54

soul cycle has talked about in I p O. The

10:56

one of the market's not great, But is that something

10:58

you could see in the few cher I mean,

11:01

what's in the works for for Peloton

11:03

the business. So, for one, we

11:06

don't think of ourselves as a cycling company,

11:08

UM. We do think of ourselves as a wellness

11:10

company, a fitness company generally

11:13

UM, and we are excited to continue

11:15

to take this whole concept of connected

11:19

fitness in the convenience of your home

11:21

and bring it into more

11:23

areas. Right and so immediately

11:26

what you're starting to see at Peloton UM

11:28

we have a series that we call Beyond the Ride, and

11:31

we're going to begin to expand

11:33

upon that overtime Beyond the Ride.

11:35

Now you can hop off your

11:37

bike, you can use our iPad

11:40

app or or you know, turn

11:42

the screen on your on your bike and take

11:45

a pilates class or or a high

11:47

intensity interval training class, do some

11:49

calisthenics, all sorts of things that

11:52

can kind of complement the bike

11:54

itself but also give you kind of

11:56

this one stop access to the

11:58

best fitness in strors anytime

12:01

you want from the convenience of your own

12:03

home. Yeah, Peloton

12:11

is trying to strike the balance between community

12:13

and convenience and fitness. And they're

12:15

not the only people trying to make being fit

12:18

easy. It's not just workout classes

12:20

and gyms, right, I mean, beyond

12:22

exercise, it's really a whole lifestyle.

12:25

It's about the clothes we put on our bodies

12:27

and the food and drinks we put in our bodies.

12:30

In the clothing world, they're calling it

12:32

the ath leisure boom. So that's any

12:34

kind of athletic clothing and stuff that you would

12:36

where to work out or just where to go get coffee.

12:39

That market it's forty four billion

12:41

dollars in the US, according to an estimate

12:43

by the research firm MPD Group

12:46

Active where sales are booming. I mean they increased

12:48

six from

12:50

the year before, compared to only a

12:52

two percent gain in the overall

12:55

apparel market. And actually, if

12:57

you stripped out athletic apparel

12:59

sales from

13:01

apparel sales actually declined by two percent.

13:06

If you think about it in the broadest sense,

13:08

I mean you're talking about trillions of dollars. I mean,

13:10

one one essement I came up with

13:12

you based on some of the bankers that I talked to her that

13:15

I got from a banker that I talked to was upwards

13:17

of three trillion, you know, and that's really

13:19

factoring in everything that's

13:21

spending money on gym, spending money on clothes, spending

13:23

money on food and travel,

13:26

and and lots of lots of different things. When

13:28

you think about the gym industry, the

13:31

fitness center sort of gym industry, eight

13:33

plus billion dollars you know at

13:35

leisure alone, which I know you guys

13:38

have have written and talked about before. You

13:40

know, that's billion

13:42

dollars based on some of the latest research

13:45

I've seen. So, I mean, you're talking about meaningful

13:48

amounts of money, and and when you

13:50

get into the idea of food and

13:53

and uh and travel and things

13:55

like that, it's a little harder to sort of unpack

13:58

and delineate what is tied

14:00

to this. But what we see is people

14:03

willing to spend more money for organic willing

14:05

to spend more money even more broadly

14:08

on experiences, which I think plays

14:10

a lot into into the broader trend.

14:13

Fitness is a lifestyle, but it's not one that

14:15

everybody can participate in equally. We

14:18

asked Jason Kelly about the socioeconomic

14:20

breakdown in this trend. One

14:23

of the things that I really wrestled with is I was researching,

14:26

was how is this happening? How

14:28

is this trend which I identify

14:30

happening at the same time that we have

14:33

record obesity, right, It's

14:35

just like, how do you square that? And

14:37

and so one of the sociologists I talked to laid

14:41

out a very interesting theory, which is

14:43

that part of it is driven

14:45

by the income

14:47

divide. And briefly,

14:51

you know, historically, when when you look

14:53

back, the affluent always find

14:55

a way to define themselves against the

14:57

quote unquote lower classes. And so when

15:01

the working classes, working outside

15:04

the upper class make sure that they are

15:06

pale skinned and soft hands,

15:08

you know, when food is scarce, the upper class

15:11

is you know, favors being fat

15:13

because it shows that they have access to

15:15

as much food as they want. And so we are

15:18

at a time now where the

15:20

affluent sort of upper class you

15:23

know, defines themselves as fit and

15:25

strong and lean because it shows

15:27

I have the money to spend on my body and

15:29

the time. And so there

15:32

is this kind of interesting almost

15:34

dichotomy there which goes

15:37

back to how does this sort of

15:39

play through the rest of the

15:42

culture and society.

15:45

And part of it is going to the costs

15:47

are going to have to come down, right, I

15:49

mean they in the sense that soul

15:51

cycle for the average person is prohibitive,

15:54

prohibitive costwise,

15:57

like people can't generally afford to spend

15:59

forty learns to go spend

16:01

for forty five minutes um

16:03

several times a week. That's

16:06

out of reach for but even

16:08

um, I'm thinking like about the apparel trends,

16:10

right, So athletic apparel is growing at a much

16:12

faster rate than general apparel those

16:15

sales um. But it is

16:17

kind of a status thing, right, like, oh

16:19

I I can afford to wear Lulua, Lemon or even

16:21

Nike. Um. And while everyone's sort

16:23

of coming out with their own athletic apparel and people

16:25

are wearing it for non athletic pursuits, it

16:28

does seem to be uh, sort

16:30

of something that's reserved for higher

16:32

class or it's a status symbol. Yeah. Absolutely,

16:35

And those things, over

16:37

time, you know, do tend to quote

16:39

unquote trickle down, and you know,

16:41

you will have lower cost providers who

16:44

come into a certain extent, you know, and

16:46

then the question we get just playing that out even

16:48

further than the question becomes Okay, So

16:50

once everybody has the equivalent of Lulu

16:52

lemon pants. You know, how

16:55

then do the sort of upper classes

16:57

quote unquote differentiate themselves in

17:05

some ways? There are only so many ways

17:07

to work out, you know what I mean, you

17:09

know, without getting too weird, and

17:12

you know, one of the one of the areas of innovation

17:15

I see a lot right now, as

17:17

as I talked to more and more people, is

17:20

as much around the mind as the body. And

17:24

I do think that when you

17:26

think about meditation

17:28

studios like Unplugged here

17:30

in New York and Los Angeles, you

17:32

know, there is this sense that

17:36

people understand better how to take

17:38

care of their bodies. They may

17:40

be spending or may need

17:42

to spend more time thinking about

17:44

their minds as well. I mean, you

17:47

know, we're we live in anxious

17:49

times. I think that is a that's a fair

17:52

statement we can all agree with. So,

17:54

you know, this notion of people

17:57

finding ways to essentially cope to feel

18:00

better. Um, I think we'll

18:03

continue to find new in different ways. And

18:05

there's just a lot of money flowing towards this

18:07

as well. To

18:15

get some more perspective on how the business

18:17

of mindfulness fits into the rest of this boom,

18:19

we spoke with Rohan Guna, Italica, founder

18:22

and director of Boutify, a mindfulness

18:24

app. So I personally

18:26

been into meditation and mindfulness

18:28

since my last year at college, so

18:31

at twelve thirteen years. And what

18:33

I found was that as mindless was becoming more

18:35

popular, my friends would sort

18:37

of say to me, I'm really interested in this mindfulness

18:40

thing. But and the butts were

18:42

always the same, which were, I don't have time

18:44

and it's too hippie. Given I had

18:46

not only a background in meditation, but also we

18:49

we've been working in technology

18:51

and design. I realized

18:53

that those that those two things of

18:56

the time issue and the hippie issue, who

18:59

were not entering zec to meditation, that they

19:01

were design challenges. So I basically decided

19:03

to make something to solve my friends

19:05

problems, and out of that came but If

19:08

I Buddha by as an app that

19:10

looks to infuse mindfulness into everyday

19:12

activities. For example, there are

19:14

guided meditations for taking

19:16

a work break, eating and even

19:18

being online. I

19:21

guess go back five years and in

19:23

that time we've seen a real, real sort

19:25

of popularity of using products

19:28

for physical health. So apps

19:30

to track your steps or your

19:33

workout regime, you're running roots

19:36

or your nutrition. These are all really

19:38

popular categories of product, but

19:40

they're very much focused on the body and exercise

19:43

and diet as well. And

19:45

then this growth, sort of the growth of mind

19:48

from that app to sort of the next phase

19:50

of that, the idea of being able to use

19:52

your phone as part of your well

19:54

being regime. I guess

19:57

we started with the physical stuff, but now

19:59

we're to see much more, many

20:01

more products around happiness, well being,

20:04

whatever sort of different dimensioned people take.

20:06

And I think a really nice

20:08

elegant irony

20:11

really and maybe around mindfulness apps is

20:13

that we're using the technologies

20:15

that for a lot of people find stressful

20:18

in itself, we sort of turning

20:20

that on its head and using these technology

20:22

technologies for positive well

20:25

being, love and the other thing. What

20:28

is the current demographic that you

20:30

know normally focused on the

20:32

main I guess the main demographic is that a

20:35

English speaking because if you think most of the products are

20:37

in English, so that already

20:40

limits your global audience. The

20:43

most most products sort of work on a sort of subscription

20:46

model, so that necessarily

20:48

goes to someone who can afford

20:52

X dollars a month. But Ify itself is just a simple

20:54

five dollar one off purchase

20:57

because I don't I'm not a particular big fan of such

21:00

option as a as a business model, but

21:02

given that subscription is so popular in

21:05

a way that sort of financially excludes a lot of

21:07

people as well, which is a real shame. Um.

21:10

And also the aesthetic

21:13

and language

21:15

and the kind of voices you find in

21:17

products tend to aim on a sort

21:19

of middle class English

21:21

speaking demographic, which

21:24

makes a lot of sense from a business perspective because

21:26

that's where it's easier to get

21:28

revenue. But it's also that's also

21:31

there's there's a lot of there's a lot more people that

21:33

could get the benefits from mindfulness as

21:35

well than than just that, So I think that's

21:38

where the opportunity is. But I'm confident that

21:40

that that will change and grow as

21:42

the market matures and

21:45

the audience becomes more open

21:47

to mindfulness as a thing with

21:50

your future products, do you plan to continue that

21:52

kind of like flat fee model

21:55

at Economics is a is a strange

21:58

thing. I remember seeing

22:00

us that that maybe only three

22:03

to five of the app store revenues

22:05

in the US come from

22:07

just just a paid up um,

22:10

so budifies very much in the minority

22:12

in that sense because most things

22:14

are free within that purchase or free with subscription.

22:17

But I feel there's a real I think that I

22:20

still believe there's a real value in

22:22

just the very simple transaction of his the product.

22:24

It costs this much, you don't have it, won't trick you into

22:27

spending any more money onto it, and you get this much

22:29

value from it. There's a real elegance and simplicity

22:33

to that, which I think a lot of um

22:35

But I think there's a whole different Our future products

22:37

will all have slightly different revenue

22:40

models, depending on what's

22:42

appropriate. I'm as

22:45

much motivated by accessibility and

22:47

growing the audience as I am as I am in

22:50

being because we are we are commercially successful,

22:53

but we're self We're a self funded companies, so we're

22:55

not answering to venture

22:57

capitalists who are demanding a sort

22:59

of fifty time in return on their investment. So

23:01

we're we're a lot more flexible about how

23:03

generous we can be to our users, and people

23:06

have thankfully responded to that. There's

23:11

a growing concern that are

23:13

sort of most popular apps

23:16

and messaging technologies are

23:19

damaging our attention span and

23:21

concentration and so

23:23

on, and I think there's a real

23:26

opportunity to take for those

23:28

of us who've learned a lot about what

23:30

really works with the God's mind fromous technology, to

23:32

take what we've learned and start

23:35

to embed some of those ideas and practices

23:38

into literally every every

23:40

bit of software could become potentially a mind

23:42

from sapp in a very light touch

23:44

way, and that's where real, sort

23:46

of real scale will happen. And that's

23:48

sort of what I'm excited about as well,

23:50

is that the hope that the

23:53

growth of mind from us apps will influence

23:56

the technology sector as a whole. Clearly,

24:05

people are putting a lot of money and effort

24:07

into just being healthier. But with

24:09

all of this activity, are we in a fitness

24:11

bubble? The sort

24:15

of modality may change, and fashion

24:17

may change, but I think the mega

24:19

trend is intact. And that's

24:21

in part because I don't think that

24:23

if we were sitting here ten years from now, we

24:26

would say, you know, it's great smoking, you

24:28

know, like I mean, or you know, I'm

24:31

really excited because I have heart disease. I think

24:33

the broader trend towards healthier

24:35

living is has

24:38

sort of sunk in. I think people ultimately

24:40

tend to do things that make them feel good.

24:47

I think loyalty is going to be extremely

24:49

important, and I think maintaining

24:51

the both the brand

24:54

and the quality of experience

24:57

is probably one of the biggest challenges for these boutiques.

24:59

Um In order to be

25:01

a robust, successful company,

25:03

and certainly is a public company, you have to

25:05

demonstrate growth, right, And

25:08

so the question that

25:10

looms out there for any company that

25:12

expands in any sort of way as can the experience.

25:15

Can you sort of continue

25:17

to create the community that you're

25:19

talking about around a certain

25:21

brand, And that comes down to are you hiring the right

25:24

people? Are you training your instructors,

25:26

are you keeping your instructors? You're paying

25:28

them out of like all those different things. They're

25:30

like real grown up business questions

25:33

and are much beyond sort of people that gets

25:35

awesome and all my friends go. And

25:38

so I do think that's one of the one of the big

25:40

challenges, especially as companies go public.

25:53

Many of the people that we spoke to have bet their

25:56

careers on the continuation of the fitness

25:58

trend, and it makes the

26:00

reasons for the boom that Jason talked about aren't

26:02

going away. People are living longer,

26:05

women athletes are still looking to stay in shape

26:07

after high school or college sports are over,

26:09

and people are always looking to be part of

26:12

some kind of community. It's also

26:14

a status symbol. I mean, celebrities

26:16

and ceo s are touting their fitness regimes,

26:18

and private equity firms have placed major

26:20

bets on industry players. But

26:23

still, our country is facing a serious

26:25

health crisis with obesity. So

26:27

will the fitness centric lifestyle trickled

26:30

down, for lack of a better term, to people

26:32

who can't afford current prices. I

26:34

think a lot of businesses are hoping so

26:37

and betting so, but only time will tell.

26:40

That's it for this week's episode of Material

26:42

World. Thanks so much for listening. You

26:44

can find me on Twitter at l c Rep

26:47

and you can find me at Jenny M. Kaplan.

26:50

If you like the show, check it out on Bloomberg

26:53

dot Com, iTunes, or

26:55

anywhere you get your podcasts. We'll

26:57

be back in two weeks. Whether

27:06

it be mom or dad or daughter

27:08

who buys the bike, um, but eventually

27:11

they're all riding