0:01

You're listening to Math and Magic, a production

0:04

of iHeartRadio. So

0:08

many people when I started were like,

0:11

what the hell is she doing? Like she has

0:13

this good day job, Like what is this?

0:15

I lacked the boldness

0:17

even to think through a business plan and think

0:20

this is what I want in three years, Like I

0:22

had to collect the courage

0:24

along the way to become that kind of

0:26

leader. Hi,

0:29

I'm Bob Pittman. Welcome to Math and

0:31

Magic, Stories from the Frontiers and Marketing,

0:34

where we explore marketing from

0:36

the math to the magic, and our guest

0:38

today fits right into that. She once

0:41

said that really interesting things happening

0:43

at the intersection of instinct, intuition,

0:46

and data. She's Gwyneth Paltrow, probably

0:49

best known for her screen career

0:51

as an actor with lots of awards, Academy

0:54

Award, Golden Globe, Emmy, had lots

0:56

of great roles, but today we want

0:58

to focus on her as an inneventative

1:00

and successful entrepreneur, starting

1:02

with an idea and exploding

1:05

it and the multiple business is all tied

1:07

together by her vision. She's

1:09

from a creative family. Her father was a

1:11

producer, her mom and actor. Yet somehow

1:14

Gwyneth had the business Gene from

1:17

Stocking Toy said an alternative

1:19

toy store Penny Whistle on Madison Avenue

1:21

in New York, to founder and

1:23

CEO of Goop. She said, the drive

1:26

and vision of an entrepreneur. She

1:28

made the Loop La New York, London

1:30

and now was back in LA. Gwyneth

1:33

welcome, Thank you very much. This

1:35

is my life. You covered everything

1:37

well before we get into those stories. We're really

1:40

going to boil it down you in sixty seconds.

1:42

Sounds good. I'm ready to go Early

1:45

Riser, night out, Early Riser

1:47

New York or la ooh tie

1:50

New Order or psychedelic furs,

1:54

beach or mountains, beach cats

1:56

or dogs? Dogs? Are you crazy?

1:59

Theater or set them up? Theater?

2:02

Introvert or extrovert. Introvert,

2:04

It's about to get harder. Childhood Hero, my

2:07

Dad, Professional Hero Brian

2:10

Chesky, first job, Penny

2:12

Whistle Toys, favorite pasta

2:14

shape RIGATONI, favorite

2:17

play a street Carnaan desire,

2:19

favorite performance by your mom a

2:21

street Carnian desire, favorite

2:24

vacation spot the exumas.

2:27

Favorite Goop product are

2:30

all in one face oil prefer

2:32

beverage, green tea,

2:35

and what's something you can't live without?

2:38

My husband and children. Let's start with the

2:40

obvious question. You've had such

2:42

an amazing and busy career acting,

2:45

what was the pull to business,

2:48

and more specifically to start your own business?

2:50

Stupidity, naivete.

2:53

I don't know. I guess I always

2:56

have felt like I'm a

2:58

relatively entrepreneurial person,

3:00

though I don't think I would have defined it that way. But

3:03

when I look back at being an artist,

3:06

I think all artists

3:08

who find some success

3:10

at it, all artists who are able to provide

3:13

for themselves by doing their art, are

3:15

by definition entrepreneurial. Like

3:17

you have to have so much

3:19

of those same qualities of self belief

3:22

and abject drive.

3:25

And I know it surprises

3:27

a lot of people when artists become entrepreneurs,

3:30

but it doesn't surprise me because I think

3:32

we are all very cut from the same

3:35

cloth. I've always been a

3:37

very independent person, and

3:40

I think I've always

3:42

wanted real agency, and

3:45

unfortunately, in an acting career,

3:47

you're always waiting for other people

3:49

to let you express what needs to

3:52

be expressed. You need permission from

3:54

the director, or you need to get the part, so

3:56

you need permission from the producer or the studio

3:58

or whatever. And I found

4:01

that very frustrating that I couldn't

4:03

create and put things into

4:05

the world, and I found myself being

4:09

slowly drawn to this

4:12

entrepreneurial space. You know, in the early days

4:14

of the Internet, it was such an exciting time

4:16

to watch businesses

4:19

being created in this whole new

4:22

way and to see all of

4:24

these, you know, existing

4:27

business models being disrupted

4:29

and disintermediated, and I

4:31

don't know, I just thought it was fascinating. I also

4:34

was very very passionate about the lifestyle

4:36

space, and I felt like I

4:39

wasn't seeing anything

4:41

that really spoke to me or answered my questions.

4:44

And that was kind of

4:46

the the early impetus

4:48

towards starting to explore how

4:50

I might participate in the

4:52

space and how I might found

4:55

a business. And before you start a goop,

4:57

you sort of put your toe in the

4:59

water a little bit in this space.

5:02

Could you give us that origin story. When

5:05

I was a kid, really

5:07

starting my movie careers nineteen,

5:10

I've always been kind

5:12

of obsessed with food

5:15

and travel and culture and

5:17

art. I mean, my dad raised

5:19

me in a way to be very receptive and excited

5:22

about these things, and I

5:24

was very much his child in this way. So when

5:26

I would go and do a film. You know, this

5:28

is pre Internet. I would

5:30

find myself living in Toronto or

5:33

Paris or Rome

5:35

or you know, Atlanta, and

5:38

really wanting to understand what

5:40

the best of the city was. What did this city

5:42

have to offer by way of not only

5:45

food and culture, but you

5:47

know stores and were there

5:49

any cool yoga studios?

5:52

And there just wasn't a way to

5:55

find this information. So I would

5:58

go around the city and I would ask

6:00

people. You know, if I saw like a

6:03

cool looking girl in Paris, you know, in a

6:05

cafe, I might ask her like, what are your

6:07

favorite shops? I would ask

6:09

crew members, you know, what is

6:11

your favorite place to get a sandwich

6:13

or a coffee? And I started to collect

6:17

all this information about cities

6:19

and then I thought, I've aggregated all this information.

6:22

I should put it somewhere. So that was

6:24

like the very early, early early,

6:26

you know, Colonel of A. Then what

6:28

became Goop. We're going to talk

6:31

a little bit more about Goop, but I want to first

6:33

jump back in time a little more. You

6:35

stocked toys at penny Whistle and Madison

6:38

Avenue for folks who were not New

6:40

Yorkers of that era. Penny Whistle

6:42

had the cool and unusual toys

6:44

in the day when unusual was hard to find

6:47

back then. It was started by Meredith

6:49

Brokaw, Tom Brokaw's wife. I lived

6:51

above the store for a few years in yearly

6:53

eighties. Oh my gosh, I actually know it.

6:55

Well, how did you wind up at

6:58

Penny Whistle? Well,

7:00

my father was adamant

7:03

that both my brother and I got jobs after

7:05

school, so we

7:08

moved to New York City, and in

7:11

seventh grade, you know, I

7:13

sort of set out on Madison Avenue

7:15

and poking my head into stores and

7:18

seeing if, you know, they needed any

7:20

help. And so they took me at Penny

7:22

Whistle, and I was very

7:24

excited. I mean, my father

7:27

was a self made guy.

7:29

He had an incredible work ethic,

7:31

and I think he was nervous

7:34

to some degree to be raising two

7:37

kids on the Upper East Side of Manhattan, going to private

7:40

school and living in a townhouse. You know. I

7:42

think he saw around corners and saw how

7:44

that could lead to a

7:47

certain entitlement that he really really

7:49

wanted to fight again. So we were working.

7:51

I mean, my brother worked at the Double Duck Delhi

7:54

on the corner of ninety second in

7:56

Madison. I worked at penny Whistle I

8:00

worked at. My next job was at

8:02

Kindersport, a ski store. Although

8:06

I didn't realize when I was a kid that when

8:09

you go on spring break, you're supposed

8:11

to ask permission from your boss.

8:14

So I sort of missed a

8:16

week of work and I came back and they said, no, you

8:18

didn't show up for work, like you're fired. So

8:21

that was also a great early

8:24

lesson for me in business. But

8:26

it was a great place to work, and as

8:29

you said, the curation there

8:31

was so cool and so different, and I

8:33

think that's where I started to understand the power of

8:36

curation. Besides, you have to show

8:38

up for work to keep your job. What other

8:40

lessons did you learn from those experiences.

8:43

I learned about the importance of the customer,

8:46

the way that people interact with a customer,

8:49

to really make the customer feel

8:52

like they're having a special experience, and

8:54

to keep the back very tidy.

8:58

That's good lessons. You

9:00

went to Spain for two months in high

9:02

school? How did that change your

9:04

view of yourself or the world.

9:07

It was like an earthquake in my life in

9:09

the best way. I mean, it just completely

9:12

dismantled so many existing

9:15

structures of who I thought I

9:17

was, and how I saw the world.

9:20

I was really dropped in it into

9:23

this wonderful family in the

9:25

middle of Spain, in a very

9:27

small city where

9:29

nobody spoke English in the family, and

9:32

I had to adapt so quickly and

9:34

learn the language so quickly. And

9:37

I was completely enchanted by

9:40

the culture, the way they saw the world,

9:42

the way they came home and

9:44

had lunched together every day and

9:47

closed their eyes, you know, for twenty minutes

9:49

and then went back to school or work, the importance

9:51

of eating together family.

9:54

You know. I had never been around

9:57

the rituals of Catholicism, for example,

9:59

which I found quite

10:01

foreign and beautiful. I feel

10:04

like I came home a completely different

10:06

kid. So let's move on a little bit.

10:08

A striking number of the

10:10

successful folks on this podcast

10:13

having college dropouts. Bob

10:16

way me included, why did you drop

10:19

out? Well, I was at the University

10:21

of California at Santa Barbara, which

10:23

is a fantastic school and probably the

10:25

most beautiful school in California.

10:29

But I really really wanted to

10:31

be acting. So I

10:33

had sort of hooked up with an agent and

10:35

I would kind of drive back and forth to

10:37

Los Angeles an audition or you

10:39

know, I had gotten a very very small

10:42

part in a film, was basically like an extra.

10:44

And I'll never forget my father,

10:47

who was a very dry,

10:49

hilarious New York Jew saying

10:51

to me, you know, you're doing both of these things

10:54

very badly, meaning I

10:57

wasn't properly trying to act, and I wasn't

10:59

properly trying to go to school. And you

11:01

know, with the support of my parents,

11:04

I decided to drop out

11:06

to see if I could pursue an

11:08

acting career. It sort of felt like it

11:10

was burning a hole in my pocket, like I had

11:13

such urgency to get out there and do

11:15

it and try it. And I felt on some level,

11:18

you know, again this abject stupid

11:20

self belief, like I'm gonna make it. I'm gonna

11:22

make it. I know I'm gonna make it, and I just

11:24

need to get out there. And at some point

11:26

my parents said, Okay, we'll support

11:29

you, go give it a try. Well, it obviously

11:31

worked out for you. I think the first time I met

11:34

you was with the Robin Hood Foundation, which

11:36

for those who don't know, is the innovative

11:38

poverty fighting nonprofit in New York

11:41

City. And I wasn't really taken

11:43

because your career was on a tear. I think

11:45

you had already won an Academy award in your

11:47

twenties, and you

11:49

had one amazing role after another, yet

11:52

you found time to help your fellow

11:55

New Yorkers in need. Can you talk a little

11:57

bit about how you think about this part of

11:59

your life. Yes, man, it was

12:01

a whirlwind. I mean you articulated

12:03

it correctly when you said, me doing what kind of one

12:05

project after the next. It was a

12:08

fast and furious time. I

12:10

spoke to somebody, you know, when I was having

12:12

like an overwhelming time,

12:14

like after the Oscar and everything. My father was sick,

12:17

my grandfather was sick, and I

12:19

remember talking to

12:21

somebody who said, you know, being of service

12:23

is such a great way to stay focused

12:26

on your true north, like who you are

12:28

as a person. So I did a

12:30

few things to be of service, and

12:33

Robin Hood was certainly one of them. I mean, it's,

12:35

as you know, it's a fantastic organization.

12:38

I was so happy to be

12:41

supportive. I mean, all of the money

12:43

from that organization goes into the hands

12:45

and the mouths of people who really needed, as opposed

12:48

to so many of these charities where it's all

12:50

going to salaries and overhead. So I

12:52

felt very proud to help.

12:54

Let's jump ahead. Now, let's jump to Goop

12:57

and you, as an entrepreneur, founder and

12:59

CEO, you started pulling

13:01

together all this information you had and

13:04

you wanted to share it. What year

13:06

did you really start Goop and what

13:08

was sort of that critical moment from I'm

13:11

sharing my information to hey, wait a minute,

13:13

I think I got a business idea. So

13:15

it's funny when I first pressend

13:18

on my mail Chimp account of

13:21

my first Goop newsletter that was in two thousand

13:23

and eight, and I had

13:25

no idea that it would

13:27

become a business or how I would monetize

13:30

it as a business. I was just writing

13:32

content from a very authentic

13:35

place of like, this is what I found that

13:37

I love. This is a great place to

13:40

get the best cheese in London and all

13:42

that kind of stuff. And I found

13:44

that it had a lot

13:47

of traction. And I found

13:49

also that I was really positively

13:52

impacting these businesses

13:54

that I was talking about, and

13:56

I thought, wow, Okay, there's something

13:59

here, like the people are trusting the

14:02

curation. I think it

14:04

was unmonetized for about five years

14:06

and then it was having such an impact

14:08

that people were coming to me and suggesting

14:11

that I monetize or

14:13

really just asking me how I thought I

14:16

could monetize it. And you

14:18

know, at this point, I'd spent a

14:20

lot of my own money running it, and I

14:23

thought, well, gosh, wouldn't it be amazing

14:25

if I could actually turn this into my job.

14:28

So I started figuring it out.

14:30

I met with a guy in London called

14:33

seb Bishop who had

14:35

been in the e commerce in the

14:37

early days, and he was running red

14:40

for Bono, and he was interested

14:42

in getting back into the for profit sector,

14:45

and we sat together and started

14:47

to strategize, you know, how we would

14:49

build it out. And we started

14:51

with kind of an immediate revenue stream,

14:53

which was through ads and

14:56

then some native content, etc. But

14:58

my passion really lay around creating

15:01

product. But it was done very

15:03

very slowly and very organically. We kind

15:05

of dipped our toes in the waters.

15:08

Our e commerce shop was first

15:10

with collaborations with other brands, so

15:12

we weren't doing much

15:14

design or supply chain or fulfillment

15:17

or anything like that. Then we had a

15:19

bunch of other brands that we were aligned with it we

15:22

were selling and then you know, then we got our

15:24

first warehouse. It's very iterative.

15:26

It was slow, and I

15:28

think that I was really discovering what the business

15:30

was as we went along.

15:33

What were your expectations of it? Were you

15:36

just along to see where

15:38

it went? Or did you have a vision

15:40

of ten years, twenty years, here's what

15:42

we're building. You know, honestly,

15:44

I felt like I wasn't given

15:46

the permission to have ambition

15:49

in that way around it. I was very

15:52

timid. I think so many

15:54

people when I started were like, what

15:56

the hell is she doing? Like she has this good

15:58

day job, Like what is this? I

16:01

lacked the boldness even

16:03

to think through a business plan and think this

16:05

is what I want in three years, Like I had

16:08

to collect the courage along

16:10

the way to become that kind of leader.

16:13

And I don't think I was ready

16:15

to be CEO myself until

16:17

I was ready to do that, and so that

16:20

was probably seven years ago.

16:23

I allowed myself to think, you know,

16:25

it's okay to have ambitions, to really

16:27

want to build something that's meaningful

16:29

and impactful. And

16:31

so I still feel like we're very much in

16:34

the process of building that. More

16:38

of Math and Magic right after this quick break,

16:46

Welcome back to Math and magic. Let's

16:48

hear more from my conversation with Gwyneth Paltrow.

16:54

This podcast is about marketing, so

16:56

I have to ask this question, why the name Goop?

17:00

Well, I was seeking advice

17:02

from an old friend of mine whom

17:04

you might know in New York, Peter Arnell, of

17:06

course, legendary marketing

17:09

guy. He was amazing. He was so instrumental

17:12

in helping me meet you know, the first guys

17:14

who helped with web development and

17:17

everything. And I said, I just don't

17:19

know what the name should be because I really don't

17:21

want it to be my name, Like

17:23

my ambition would be to build something

17:26

that would be far greater than me,

17:29

and it could stand for something

17:31

that people would understand, and so I don't

17:33

want it to be my name. And Peter came up

17:35

with the name Goop, and I

17:37

thought he was nuts. I mean, I thought it was such

17:39

a weird sounding word.

17:42

And he said, no, it's your

17:44

initials with two o's in the name. And I was

17:46

like, what is that supposed to mean? And he

17:48

said, you know, all big internet companies

17:50

have two o's in the name, you know, whether

17:52

it be Facebook, Google, Yahoo,

17:54

whatever. So I said,

17:57

okay, Peter, I'm going to trust you, and

17:59

then Goup was born out of that.

18:02

Daily Candy had a successful editorial

18:04

newsletter, Guilt had successful

18:07

commerce, but the combination

18:09

of the two editorial and commerce

18:12

was very elusive. Why were you

18:14

able to bring them together? What was the secret?

18:16

I think the secret was for

18:20

so long, I was so allergic

18:22

to being transactional in that sense,

18:25

and I'll never forget.

18:28

I published one issue

18:30

of Goop. I published an article on the

18:33

French pharmacy, which

18:35

I'm sure you know when you go to Paris or anywhere

18:37

in France, the pharmacies there are so

18:39

cool and they have like, you

18:41

know, homeopathic things, and they have

18:44

like all this special stuff.

18:47

And so I wrote a piece

18:49

saying, you know, this is this great you know, burn

18:51

cream and these probiotic tampons,

18:54

and there's this great lip bomb and all

18:56

this stuff. And a

18:58

woman stopped me and she said, oh

19:01

my god. I loved that article

19:03

on the French pharmacy. But it was so

19:06

frustrating for me that I couldn't just click

19:08

to buy everything. I was on Amazon

19:11

dot fr or trying to buy this and

19:13

that and searching, and it was the first

19:15

time that it occurred

19:18

to me that transaction

19:20

could actually be a service as well, and

19:24

that you didn't have to push product

19:26

for revenue. If you made or

19:29

curated things that you really believe

19:32

in and thought were going to

19:34

genuinely elevate someone's life

19:36

in some way, that you

19:39

could do what we then called contextual

19:41

commerce. And we've always stayed true to

19:43

those principles. You know, we're obsessed

19:46

with clean beauty and we have the highest

19:48

clean beauty standards in the business, and so

19:51

I think when people come to the website,

19:53

they understand that, and they understand that

19:55

there's a really strong point of view. You know

19:57

that I have a very strong point of view around

19:59

fat. So even when we

20:01

were just buying, like from a wholesale

20:04

perspective and had a multi brand matrix, it

20:06

was very specific. When we started g

20:08

label our clothing line is

20:10

very very true to me. So I wouldn't

20:13

have been able to sleep at night if I felt like I

20:15

was pushing something on somebody.

20:18

You've been doing some very successful Goop

20:20

podcast How did you discover

20:23

podcasting and do you think

20:25

of it as a separate business or

20:27

is it integral to your entire brand development.

20:30

I think I understood pretty early on

20:32

in the game what podcasts were and why

20:34

they were valuable. And I think, you know, we

20:38

have always been a content first

20:41

company, and sometimes we've indexed

20:43

too heavily into that, right, and

20:45

so we're not driving enough revenue because

20:47

obviously you want to grow and grow in a profitable

20:49

way. But content

20:52

is so critical to why we

20:54

are relevant as a business, and

20:57

we're always looking at various channels

20:59

we can proliferate with great

21:02

content, you know, whether that's a Netflix show

21:04

or whether it's a podcast, or whether it's

21:06

our digital content, etc. And

21:08

I think a lot of brands have caught up to this as

21:11

well, some with I think more relevancy

21:13

than others. But there's a

21:15

content creation piece. I think

21:17

that's really important for driving

21:19

a modern omni channel, direct

21:22

consumer brand. And

21:24

so the podcast is such

21:26

a great way of folding

21:29

that in. I mean, it is a revenue stream, right

21:31

because we sell ads on

21:33

it, but it also is

21:35

a way to always articulate

21:38

our curiosity goop to

21:41

really dig deeper with experts

21:43

and doctors and amazing

21:45

people that we have on and I think podcasts

21:47

are such a great forum. I love listening

21:50

to podcasts and I listen to a lot of

21:52

them. I think it serves two purposes.

21:54

There is the revenue stream and then it's also

21:57

again like the content. What's

21:59

interesting is that you've jumped

22:01

into a lot of areas. To people thought you've

22:03

gone through sort of all the issues of starting

22:06

a business, but you've gone

22:08

into retail when others are

22:11

scared of it. What's the secret

22:13

of knowing when is the time for that

22:15

next step? And how did you wind

22:17

up doing retail? Yeah,

22:19

and I think that's a really relevant question

22:22

too, especially as we expand

22:24

into wholesale with our eponymous

22:26

beauty products as well, because

22:29

you know, I think there was this desire

22:32

to stay like purely

22:34

direct to consumer for so many brands

22:36

like Goop, and then I

22:38

think we all started to see, Okay,

22:41

we might need to broaden where are we offering

22:44

these products. So I

22:46

personally think that retail

22:48

is super important for a brand because

22:51

it's where the customer can come in and

22:53

touch and feel and sort of

22:55

be immersed in a brand experience. And

22:57

that's why the experiences

23:00

in the stores need to be so good. Because

23:02

if I'm going to sell our

23:05

great face cream on Amazon

23:07

or Sephora, both of which

23:09

we do, I need the brand

23:12

halo to be really strong, like I

23:14

need the Goop brand to be intact when

23:16

someone's adding a cream to their

23:19

Amazon cart. And

23:21

I do think that omni channel

23:23

is really important for modern

23:26

brands, and retail is

23:29

such an important piece of that. Now.

23:31

I'm not necessarily saying we would

23:33

go and open a hundred retail stores, but I

23:35

do think that having

23:37

the right store and the right experience in

23:39

the right market, it works

23:41

as a customer acquisition tool, it works

23:44

as a client telling tool, and

23:46

I think you can really make people forge

23:49

a strong relationship to a

23:51

brand in a retail store the way that you

23:53

just can't digitally. You know, It's

23:55

interesting. Two folks told me very

23:57

similar stories as they began retail. Ralph

24:00

Lauren told me he was starting his retail

24:02

stores but way back when because

24:04

he wanted to show the department stores how

24:07

to merchandise his product.

24:10

Well, Steve Jobs, when he was talking

24:12

about the Apple stores the retail stores, said,

24:16

nobody makes my product look special.

24:18

I need to build my own to show

24:20

people how to do it. But it's interesting.

24:22

They both said, basically what you just said,

24:25

that it is all about sort of making

24:27

it come to life and showing people what it

24:29

should look and feel like talk

24:32

to me a little bit about Some people call it work life

24:34

balance, some people call it work life integration.

24:37

How do you make it work well?

24:40

You know, being a mother and raising my children

24:42

has been by far and away the most

24:45

important aspect of my life, so

24:48

as any working parent does, that

24:51

balance is so important

24:54

to find. And then I think how you define

24:56

boundaries around each thing are so important

24:59

to find. And I think it's an active process.

25:01

You know, at one point in their childhood's

25:03

trying to do everything at the same

25:05

time was not

25:08

great. But then in COVID, you know, we would all

25:10

be around the kitchen table and I could be doing

25:12

emails and they could be doing homework, and it felt

25:15

like a sort of shared activity.

25:18

But you know, I turned fifty in September, and

25:21

I did a big inventory of my life and

25:23

what I thought was working and what I thought needed

25:26

some improvement. And I

25:29

think continuing to set

25:31

boundaries around free

25:33

time, time to be present with family,

25:36

time to really unplug

25:39

on the weekends, like that's become very critical

25:41

for me. I used to spend Saturdays

25:44

and half of Sundays working, thinking,

25:46

catching up, making notes, and I've

25:50

really delineated between my

25:52

work week and my weekends. Now that

25:55

has been very, very important to me. Also,

25:58

you know, meal times really guarding times.

26:00

We don't let any phones at the table at all

26:03

at the house and even with guests.

26:05

You know, people sometimes are like, you're gonna tell

26:07

me I can't have my phone at the table, and I say

26:10

yes, because I want to hear what

26:12

you have to say. I want to watch you think

26:14

through something. I don't want anybody to be

26:16

distracted. And you know, these days,

26:18

so precious little of our time is

26:21

just full of presents,

26:24

and so I've realized, Okay,

26:26

I can't do two things at the same time, and

26:28

I want to be fully present in what I'm doing,

26:30

whether you know, I'm with my kid

26:33

or whether I'm at my desk or at a meeting. So

26:36

let's talk a little bit about the lessons you're

26:39

passing on. You talked about your dad

26:41

and some of the things he gave you, work

26:44

ethic, appreciation for beautiful things,

26:47

real sense of design, taste, etc.

26:50

What are one or two really important lessons

26:52

you've tried to impart to your kids. I

26:54

think kindness above

26:57

all. Manners are really really

26:59

important me. Table manners and

27:02

proper manners. I just think that, you

27:04

know, doors open for

27:07

a young man or a young woman that is

27:09

polite and kind and empathetic.

27:12

You know, my parents were really great

27:14

about letting me dream big and

27:17

supporting that, and so I

27:20

really want my kids to know that

27:22

that is possible, like that dreaming

27:24

big is actually great, whether something

27:26

manifests or it doesn't. You

27:29

get to know yourself and be really

27:31

close to yourself when you're dreaming

27:34

about what you could be. And

27:36

to me, being friends

27:38

with yourself and knowing yourself deeply

27:41

is kind of the great unlock in being

27:43

a human being, you know. And you can't say to a

27:45

kid, hey, just be yourself because it sounds

27:47

like a platitude. So I try

27:50

to foster conversations

27:52

around where the felt

27:55

sense is a visceral understanding

27:57

of who they actually are and

28:00

what is important to them and who they want

28:02

to be, even if or especially

28:05

if it doesn't align necessarily

28:08

with what I think is right for them.

28:11

So, as a disruptor and

28:13

someone who has push boundaries,

28:15

how do you cope with criticism professionally

28:17

and personally, mentally and physically,

28:20

And by the way, what do you tell your kids about

28:22

how to handle that? Yeah,

28:25

you know, I've been through a long road with

28:27

this stuff, you know. I sort of became

28:30

famous when I was probably twenty two years

28:32

old. I learned very

28:34

quickly to make a distinction

28:37

between the

28:39

projections of people who

28:42

do not know me and

28:45

the people who love me and want

28:48

the best for me, even if they have

28:50

to say something that might be hard to hear. And

28:53

I learned I've understood very early

28:56

that strangers

28:59

who criticize you for whatever

29:02

their reason is right, and maybe

29:04

it's well now for clickbait or now, it's

29:06

just to momentarily feel better about themselves

29:09

because they're releasing some venom,

29:11

whether that's you know, online or

29:13

on Twitter or anywhere else, that

29:15

has nothing to do with me. I'm merely a

29:17

projection that they're sort of using

29:21

for some gain that

29:23

they're looking for. And I

29:26

was really able to, i

29:28

don't know, really make the mental

29:31

shift into understanding

29:34

that it had nothing to do with me.

29:36

Now, some criticism is really

29:38

helpful, So you want that

29:41

filtered out right, Like, sometimes

29:44

it's super important to hear

29:46

those things, But if it's coming

29:49

from someone that I don't know, I

29:51

always try to remember that there will be

29:53

a piece that's projection, and

29:56

you know, we live in a culture

29:59

where we don't know

30:02

how to process through our feelings

30:04

very well. Like we don't have rubrics

30:07

for wow, this happened

30:09

to me. This feels terrible, and

30:13

I'm going to make sure I process it out. So

30:15

when we don't do that, those

30:18

feelings get stuck in our bodies

30:20

and they have to come out. So they come out

30:23

in hating someone or something or

30:25

being mean about it. It offers

30:27

a temporary relief to somebody's

30:30

own pain. So I think I also

30:32

understand that very well as someone who

30:34

frankly has spent all of my adult

30:37

life like, I've always been on a pursuit

30:39

of taking full accountability for myself,

30:42

and that's you know, sometimes it's uncomfortable

30:44

to do. This is related to that. How

30:46

do you think about corporate culture?

30:49

It is undeniably your company,

30:51

so the culture is yours. How do you think

30:53

about deliberately building that and what

30:55

does it stand for? How do you use it? How do you

30:58

evolve it? It's definitely evolved

31:00

over time. And as you know, I

31:02

didn't grow up in a corporate

31:05

culture, right, so I didn't start as

31:07

an associate and work my

31:09

way up. So I kind of started

31:11

as a founder and so you

31:13

know, you miss a lot, like I've

31:16

been playing catchup for

31:18

a lot of these years and learning

31:20

on the job, which

31:22

has been amazing. But

31:24

sometimes I think you don't start to think about

31:26

these things until things

31:29

are not working well. Right,

31:31

So when it was just me and a few girls, like

31:33

in the little barn behind my house,

31:35

it just felt great and we

31:38

all communicated. And as

31:41

the company grew and as I had less

31:43

direct interaction with people every

31:46

day, and in

31:48

a couple of pockets like culture started

31:50

to go a bit sideways. I was like, wait

31:52

a minute, wait a minute, this is not what we're

31:54

doing. And you know, having to make

31:56

hard decisions around, for example, certain

31:59

people at company who we're creating

32:02

a bad culture and having as CEO

32:04

to take responsibility for that and make

32:07

hard and necessary changes, or

32:10

also really taking the time

32:12

to step back and think about, okay, like what do

32:15

we want it to feel like to work at Goop

32:17

and what is important

32:19

to us and you know, understanding

32:22

like the communication is

32:24

the foundation of this stuff and creating pillars

32:27

like here we say our pillars culturally.

32:29

We speak straight, we listen generously,

32:31

we are for each other, we honor commitments,

32:34

We acknowledge and appreciate, we

32:36

include an align, and we are

32:39

accountable. So it's

32:41

really living those values every day.

32:43

And I think you have to model

32:45

it from the top, you know, Like for me, for

32:47

example, I always had

32:49

a hard time with the first one speaking straight

32:52

because I'm a pleaser. I don't want to hurt anyone's

32:54

feelings, and so

32:56

I really had to overcome

32:58

that and sort of base through incredibly

33:01

difficult, uncomfortable things

33:03

to just speak straight. And so

33:05

I think it's always an ongoing

33:08

process. But I think culture

33:10

has to be at the forefront

33:13

of any leader's

33:15

mind because without a

33:17

work culture that especially that mirrors

33:20

you know, what you're trying to put out into the world.

33:23

It's an issue. So

33:26

if you could, what advice

33:28

would you give your eighteen year old self,

33:32

gosh, I mean, I think it

33:34

would be around what I alluded to

33:36

be for with my own children, around

33:39

the importance about being radically

33:42

yourself. And you

33:44

know, I think well Shakespeare said it best

33:47

when he said to thine own self

33:49

be true and that

33:51

sort of radical come

33:54

what may, loyalty to yourself,

33:57

and the come what may part is the hard

34:00

part, and I think that's something that we

34:02

learn with age,

34:05

but I wish I could have had

34:07

just a little bit more of that, you know,

34:09

before I turned forty. Can

34:12

you compare and contrast the life of

34:14

an actor with the life of a CEO.

34:17

I think they're very different, Bob. I mean,

34:20

I am such a nine to five or at

34:23

this point. You know, when you're an

34:25

actor, you're all

34:27

over the world. The hours are nuts.

34:29

You know, you're working at three in the morning

34:31

on a night shoot like you

34:34

never know where your next job is

34:37

coming from, who you're going to work with.

34:40

You never know, as I said before, if your

34:42

creativity is going to be expressed in

34:44

the way that you're hoping it will.

34:47

As a CEO, my mindset

34:49

has shifted so much from kind

34:52

of the lone artist to being the

34:55

head of a culture and a culture

34:57

of people who are aligned towards EXE

35:00

shooting on the same vision and hopefully

35:02

doing it happily. And so

35:04

with that come structure and routine

35:06

and okayrs and all

35:09

this stuff that my actress has no

35:11

idea about the actress

35:13

that dwells within me. So I

35:16

think, apart from the

35:19

kernel of hutzpah that both

35:22

jobs really need in order to be successful,

35:24

I think the lives are incredibly

35:28

distinct, so we

35:30

end each episode of Math and Magic

35:32

by giving a shout out to those

35:34

who influenced or inspired us through

35:37

the analytical side and

35:39

from the creative side of marketing and business.

35:43

There's one person in the world

35:45

that has both

35:48

that I have met, and

35:51

that's Whitney Wolf heard from Bumble,

35:55

who is so

35:58

analytically driven and

36:01

so wildly creative.

36:03

And it's just she's like a

36:06

fountain of ideas and

36:08

problem solving. That's fantastic

36:10

where one person gets them both. Gwenneth,

36:13

You've had a remarkable journey, amazing

36:16

experiences, some wonderful lessons.

36:19

Thanks for sharing them with us today. Oh

36:21

thank you so much for having me. I appreciate

36:24

it. Here

36:29

are a few things I picked up in my conversation with

36:32

Gwyneth. One, provide

36:34

meaningful service. Business should

36:36

be more than just transaction. From

36:38

working with charities to providing wellness

36:40

to her customers, Gwenne's stays grounded

36:43

by making sure the work she does can

36:45

make a meaningful difference in people's lives.

36:48

To bottle from the top. When

36:50

you're the face of a company, you need to live

36:52

the values you preach. Healthy company

36:55

culture is an important part of any business.

36:57

Setting an example for your colleagues, give

37:00

you a strong foundation to build upon. Three

37:03

prioritize your values. Everything

37:06

comes down to this, but it might

37:08

be one of the hardest lessons to learn. Goop

37:10

is successful because it is a unique

37:12

extension of Gwyne's interest and beliefs.

37:16

Building something that's so personal can

37:18

be challenging, but in the toughest times,

37:20

knowing yourself in both life and business

37:23

will ensure you stay on the right path. I'm

37:27

Bob Pittman. Thanks for listening. That's

37:36

it for today's episode. Thanks so much

37:38

for listening to Math and Magic, a production of

37:41

iHeartRadio. The show is hosted by

37:43

Bob Pittman. Special thanks to Sidney

37:45

Rosenbloom for booking and wrangling our

37:47

wonderful talent, which is no small feat. Our

37:50

editor Emily Marinoff, our engineer

37:52

Jessica Kranchich, our executive

37:54

producers Nikki Etre and Ali Perry,

37:57

and of course Gail Raoul, Eric

37:59

Angel, Noel and everyone will helped

38:01

bring this show to your ears. Until

38:04

next time,