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You're listening to . Melissa and Laurie Love Literacy

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. We just returned from the Plain Talk

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about Literacy and Learning Conference in New

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Orleans and learned so much .

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This episode elevates our takeaways about

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structured literacy and learning from the Plain

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Talk conference . Let's jump in .

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Hi teacher friends . I'm Laurie and

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I'm Melissa . We are two

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educators who want the best for all

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kids , and we know you do too .

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We worked together in Baltimore when the district

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adopted a new literacy curriculum

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.

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We realized there was so much more to learn

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about how to teach reading and writing

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.

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Laurie , and I can't wait to keep learning with you today

0:40

.

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My name is Jen and my biggest

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takeaway from the Plain Talk conference

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is that the

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learning journey is lifelong . At

0:58

any session you went to

1:00

, you could run into speakers

1:02

from other sessions sitting

1:05

in on their colleagues learning

1:07

new things , and that reminded

1:09

me that the learning

1:11

is lifelong and to

1:14

never stop learning . No matter

1:16

how far along in my career I

1:18

am , I can always learn something

1:20

new .

1:26

Hi , my name is Melissa and my biggest

1:28

takeaway from Plain Talk I actually have two

1:30

. It was so amazing to

1:32

be able to sit in and listen to Dr

1:35

Erie talk about her work , and

1:38

then her additional suggestions on how

1:40

to move students in instruction

1:42

, and then Dr Cable's

1:44

emphasis on the importance of conversation

1:47

and five critical turns

1:49

you can make .

1:54

Hi , my name is Elise Lovejoy and

1:56

I'm calling because I attended a session

1:59

by Lorraine Hammond and

2:01

she had an incredible presentation

2:05

on the urgency

2:07

and prompting that needs to happen in

2:09

our classes and

2:12

during my intervention sessions

2:14

today , I required the kids

2:16

to respond more often

2:18

and at a faster pace

2:20

. It was very successful and

2:23

I very much appreciated listening

2:25

to her talk about how all children

2:27

can read , no matter can learn

2:29

to read , no matter the zip code that

2:31

they live in .

2:34

We are debriefing the Plain Talk conference

2:36

today , sharing what we learned from speakers

2:39

and sessions . So , melissa , I know this

2:41

is so exciting because we just got back from

2:43

the conference and learned so much .

2:45

Yeah , from New Orleans , which is one of my favorite

2:47

places . Yeah . I used to teach there

2:49

. I did . I used to teach there and live there

2:51

, obviously . So

2:53

, yeah , it was so fun to be in New Orleans , but we

2:55

learned so much . I mean , by the end

2:58

I was . My brain was full , for

3:00

sure , all the way full

3:02

.

3:04

Yeah , I was exhausted from my

3:06

brain working overtime , but we are

3:08

going to recap our sessions today that we learned

3:10

, or that we that we were in and learned

3:13

so much in .

3:14

Some of them . We should say that I mean

3:16

, we'd be here all day if we

3:18

did all of them .

3:20

We chose a sampling and we tried to vary

3:23

our choices .

3:26

But we saw a lot and learned a lot . So

3:28

do you want to kick us off , Lori ?

3:30

I'd love to . So I saw a session titled

3:33

Building Stronger Readers Through Spelling with Pam

3:35

Castner , and my favorite

3:37

thing that came out of this session was

3:39

this takeaway when you're teaching spelling

3:42

, you're teaching reading . Spelling

3:44

is a window into reading needs

3:46

and also , I should say , reading strengths , so

3:49

that's really helpful . I

3:52

also appreciated that Pam sent everyone

3:54

from the session on the way with a padlet with

3:56

resources . I feel like she really gets teachers

3:59

knowing that everybody wants to learn after

4:01

the session . So

4:03

you know , when you can spell a word , you can read a word , but

4:05

the opposite isn't always true . And she

4:08

took us through a little exercise where

4:10

we all thought we were excellent readers and

4:12

spellers and then we realized , oh

4:14

, we can spell some really tricky

4:16

words , like fuchsia , but

4:20

we can read them . And

4:22

if we are going to implement

4:25

a spelling scope and sequence to

4:27

align with what we're doing

4:29

, it should be least

4:31

complex to most

4:33

complex and most

4:35

frequent to least frequent . So

4:38

that was a great takeaway and something

4:40

really important , I think

4:42

, for teachers to know and for practitioners

4:45

in the classroom . If you're teaching spelling

4:47

, to have that mind and

4:49

you know , can of course , connect it to what

4:51

you're doing , not random acts of spelling

4:54

here and , you know , keep it connected

4:56

to morphology , to

4:58

your phonics skills

5:00

. She did also provide a routine

5:03

called a simultaneous oral

5:05

spelling and SOS routine

5:07

for teachers and students to help students focus

5:09

on the individual sounds in words

5:11

. So I'll run through that quickly

5:13

and then , melissa , you can let me know if you have

5:16

any questions . Sure , so

5:18

. Step one the student watches the teacher's

5:20

mouth to see the way sounds are

5:22

produced . So I

5:24

guess , if you think about it during the COVID pandemic

5:27

, this is right , like when you

5:29

think about all the kids who had went

5:31

through there then with the masks , that would be really

5:33

tricky . Step two

5:35

students repeat the word to stimulate the

5:38

articulators and look in the

5:40

mirror . Students map sounds

5:42

to fingers or chips so they

5:44

might move chips or hold their fingers

5:46

up or tap . Student

5:49

writes the word , spells the word , and

5:52

then students says the word back to the teacher

5:54

. So a really

5:56

simple protocol where

5:58

students are getting

6:00

lots of reps , repetitions and

6:03

practice . Pam

6:05

also mentioned that more theme

6:07

matrices are helpful tools as

6:09

well , so I

6:12

know that we're big fans of those too

6:14

, melissa .

6:15

So for sure . Yeah

6:18

, and it sounds like I mean , what you just went through

6:20

, that was simultaneous oral spelling

6:22

. Yeah , sos , sos . But

6:25

it reminds me of our recent conversation with Matt

6:27

Burns , who's talking about connecting

6:30

that phonemic awareness with letters , and

6:32

it sounds like that happens very quickly here . Right , that

6:34

you let the child hear quickly

6:37

, but then you are immediately attaching

6:39

those letters so they're

6:42

not just hearing the sounds but they're also connecting

6:44

it to the letters too .

6:45

Yeah , that's right . Yeah , so , Melissa

6:47

, I know we sat in another session together

6:50

and I wondered if you wanted to kick

6:52

us off for that one .

6:54

Yeah , so this is one

6:56

of our friends of the podcast , sonia

6:58

Cavill , who very funnily I

7:00

was walking down the stairs before

7:03

her session so it was the day before and

7:06

someone yells Melissa , and so excited

7:08

and I felt I didn't recognize her at

7:10

first because there's like a million people at

7:12

this conference and so it took me a minute

7:14

and then I was like , oh my gosh , sonia Cavill . I was so

7:16

excited because we love her . I forget

7:18

what episode number she is , but yeah , it

7:20

was so fun to like meet her in person . She's

7:22

, she's wonderful , and so she has a

7:24

new book out with Trisha Zucker

7:27

called Strive for Five

7:29

. Is the rest of it what the title

7:31

of the conference session was ? The conference session was

7:33

Strive for Five Conversations to Build

7:35

Language Comprehension in Preschool through First

7:37

Grade . I'm guessing that's the title of the book

7:39

as well .

7:41

The book is Strive

7:44

for Five Conversations a

7:46

framework that gets kids talking to

7:48

accelerate their language comprehension

7:51

and literacy .

7:52

So actually it's different , but Strive for

7:54

Five is Strive

7:57

for Five . Sonia Cavill , trisha Zucker

7:59

, you'll find it . But it was really

8:01

great , I think . I think , going into it

8:03

I knew I was like , ok , strive

8:05

for Five , you want to have five

8:07

back and forth turns with someone while you're

8:09

having a conversation . Seems easy

8:11

enough , but I loved how she talked about

8:14

why right , that was a

8:16

big thing , was like , well , why

8:18

do we care about doing this ? And

8:20

I have I have my five year old , so

8:22

he was in my head the whole time and it made so much sense

8:25

that like this is how you can really

8:27

like build these , like having

8:29

one conversation on one topic

8:31

and building language and building

8:33

vocabulary really

8:35

makes a lot of sense as a teacher . And I

8:38

loved how she talked about it as just like a

8:40

marginal shift , which I was like , yes

8:43

, that's so good , because I think so often

8:45

we want , you know , we want that

8:47

like thing that's going to change

8:49

everything and it's going to be this huge , big

8:52

new thing and I love that she's . It's just

8:54

little , it's just a little shift in

8:56

the way you do things . It's not like

8:58

going to totally disrupt

9:00

what you're doing in the classroom , just

9:02

a little tiny shift in how

9:04

you are talking to your students

9:06

, asking questions , responding

9:08

to their questions , so , or responding

9:11

to their answers to questions . So I

9:13

just thought that was excellent . I

9:16

also loved that she brought up the idea

9:18

of good job as

9:20

a conversation stopper , and

9:22

I am like I'm guilty

9:24

of this to all the time , so

9:26

don't feel bad if you're doing it , because I

9:29

do it all the time with with my son . You

9:31

know , it's just like , oh , look

9:33

at this thing I made mom and you're like that's great , nice

9:36

work , and

9:38

it is just like that's the end of the conversation

9:40

. Right there , you know . So it's so nice to think about

9:42

that , like okay , how do you keep that going

9:45

right , instead of just that good

9:47

job and stopping the

9:49

conversation ?

9:51

Yeah , and I really connected that as as an to

9:53

that as an adult , to and

9:56

I'll give an example like if I walked into Actually

9:59

I feel like I did this , melissa , I walked into your house

10:01

Before you moved

10:03

and you , you know

10:05

, I that was the first time I had been there

10:08

in a while and you had done some things and instead

10:10

of being like , wow , this is so nice , I think

10:12

I asked you some questions about it and I was intentionally

10:15

doing that . I had learned the

10:17

skill and then I was practicing

10:20

it . But if I had been like , wow

10:22

, this is so nice , you've been like , yeah , thanks , and

10:24

the conversation would be over versus , you

10:27

know , oh , how did you think to choose

10:29

this color on your wall ? Or why

10:31

did you select this artwork ? Or you

10:33

know , where did you get your furniture from ? Or what's the

10:35

vibe you went for in here ? It opens

10:38

it up and it's the same for kids , and

10:40

I was thinking of that .

10:42

I don't say especially even more for kids . Right

10:44

, because I mean , as an adult , you could

10:46

give me that just oh

10:48

, this looks great and I might add on to it

10:50

. Right , because I'm an adult

10:52

. But it's unlikely that a four-year-old , five-year-old

10:55

, even six-year-old , like our youngest

10:57

learners are going to like have

11:00

those conversation techniques to be able to add

11:02

on .

11:03

Sure , and what I really liked about this too is that

11:05

it really does extend , not just for

11:08

ELA but to all content areas

11:10

and all areas Really . I mean . Even think about

11:12

art , you know . I mean , if it's a child's

11:15

making a piece of artwork in art

11:17

class , instead of walking by and saying great

11:19

job , that's nice , you

11:21

ask like , how did you think to draw this , how

11:24

did you think to create that ? And

11:26

really modeling those inquisitive

11:28

, curious questions and

11:30

kids want to tell you about

11:32

it . And you know

11:35

, I've tried this at home with Press and I think only

11:37

one time in the history of me

11:39

asking her all of these questions , she's she

11:41

said like I don't know , I just

11:43

did . And outside

11:45

of that , I pretty much always

11:48

get a really great

11:50

response back . That then prompts

11:52

me to ask another question and and does

11:55

forge the conversation forward . So it's

11:57

exciting to think about moving the

11:59

conversations forward and just strive for

12:01

five and why that is

12:03

important that those five interactions

12:05

over time become really

12:08

, really meaningful for kids'

12:10

language and language comprehension

12:12

, yeah .

12:13

And just just to like stamp those five

12:15

. You know your teacher is the

12:17

first turn , right ? So

12:20

the asking that open-ended question and

12:22

then the student response . However , they respond , right , and

12:25

it might even be , like you just said , lori , it might be

12:27

a response like I don't know , I just did

12:29

right , but

12:31

you can still take that to your . You know , your next turn could be like

12:33

okay , you know she called this scaffolding

12:36

down right , like

12:38

the , so might need to scaffold that to . Like okay , well

12:40

, did you do it because of this reason or did you do it

12:42

for this reason ? Right

12:45

, maybe give them some options if they weren't able

12:47

to explain themselves , so you

12:50

give them another chance to to to talk about it . But

12:53

if they do give a , an actual response , then you scaffold it

12:55

up and right , you might take

12:57

it to the next level like , oh , what made you think of that ? Or

12:59

like , how does that connect to something else ? You've done this

13:03

other painting you did the other day , you know

13:05

, so you can take it to another place . And then , you know , let

13:08

let the student respond again . That's

13:10

the fourth turn and then the wrap up . I

13:12

liked that . I always felt

13:14

like that last you know time the teacher got to

13:16

say something was

13:19

the the place you might like be able to like add in some vocabulary

13:21

, like , oh , that sounds like this thing

13:23

that we've been talking about in class , and

13:27

connecting it and making it just

13:29

just kind of putting a stamp on it at the end of

13:31

the conversation ?

13:32

Yeah , and I think if you're curious

13:34

about this when

13:37

Sonya's book and Trisha's book does come out , because

13:39

I think it's on , it's an out , on pre-order . I'm pretty

13:41

sure it's out already . Okay , so we will get

13:43

that information for you in a moment

13:45

, but there are videos that go along with it

13:48

and

13:50

so that is super helpful if you would like to

13:52

see this in action . It

13:54

is out . It's out by tomorrow . I

13:58

wasn't sure if it was out or pre-order . All

14:00

right , so onto the next session

14:02

. I saw another friend

14:04

of the podcast , doug Fisher , called

14:07

Interactive Read-Allowed . Done right

14:09

. He based

14:12

this on a 2004 piece

14:14

and then added onto it which kind of

14:16

made it really fun and special . The

14:18

2004 piece was called Interactive Read-Allowed is

14:20

their common set of implementation practices

14:23

. It was by Fisher Fry and LAP , and

14:27

Doug's original piece called

14:29

out seven non-negotiables for

14:31

an Interactive Read-Allowed that

14:33

there's a clear purpose established , that

14:36

there's a text selection that

14:38

obviously is like , meaningful and

14:40

worthy . That

14:43

we're previewing and practicing

14:45

the Read-Allowed as teachers , as practitioners

14:47

. That students are doing

14:49

some sort of independent reading and

14:51

writing connected to it . That

14:53

we are modeling fluent reading

14:55

and being animated

14:58

and having expression . And

15:01

that we are discussing the text and students

15:03

are discussing the text I'm sorry

15:05

the text . And

15:07

then in this presentation Doug added three

15:10

more to update . So he added

15:12

print referencing , so giving

15:14

the students an opportunity to see the text

15:17

and reference the text . That that's an important feature

15:19

. Again , that word that

15:21

we just talked about a whole lot with Sonia , scaffold

15:23

is coming up . So

15:26

scaffold work , when students have a mental

15:28

model of success and

15:30

so they know what they're doing . The purpose

15:32

is clear , the goal of this Read-Allowed

15:34

is clear and everybody understands the end goal

15:37

. And the third

15:39

thing is think-allowed from

15:41

the teacher . Doug likes to call them think-alongs

15:44

and I thought that was fun and

15:47

he also , of course , is

15:49

like the king of the

15:51

. You know gradual release model , gradual

15:53

release of responsibility . So one

15:56

thing I thought would be really important to note , because

15:58

Doug talked about it quite a bit , is that he said

16:00

anywhere in that gradual release

16:02

model you can start , anywhere in there . You

16:05

don't have to start with the I do , we do , you

16:07

do . It's not linear . So , as you're

16:09

doing a Read-Allowed , you might

16:11

want students

16:13

to begin by talking about something

16:15

, to review a concept . Well , that's

16:17

kind of like the you do right or the we

16:19

do , depending on how it

16:22

looks , and then you might come back together

16:24

Read-Allowed model and then

16:26

kind of release some responsibility and

16:28

come back . So it doesn't have to be

16:30

this linear process in the gradual release

16:32

. But here's the key Close

16:34

the loop every day . It

16:36

has to close . You can't leave it open

16:39

. It can't be I do , we do or

16:41

you do , I do . We

16:43

have to do all of those steps to

16:45

bring the gradual release to a full circle in

16:48

the interactive Read-Allowed and just , I think , generally

16:50

speaking in the bigger picture .

16:52

But for the case of this session in the interactive

16:55

Read-Allowed , and I'm assuming

16:57

that would kind of be driven by the text

16:59

. If I was planning

17:01

a Read-Allowed , I know that places I would want to model

17:03

would be driven by the text . Where

17:06

is it that I want to show them something

17:08

tricky about the text , or the vocabulary

17:10

is tough , or something that I

17:12

want to show them versus

17:15

? Where do I think I

17:18

can just ask them a question here and we can talk

17:20

about it . So did he talk about that ? Is

17:22

that ? Am I on the right track ?

17:24

He did , yes , but I also . I'll

17:26

kind of share that in another

17:28

session . So I don't know why . I was really into

17:31

Read-Allowed , this plain talk , and I saw Molly

17:33

Ness , who another friend of the podcast , speak

17:36

about Read-Allowed , episode 170

17:38

. Episode 170 , and Doug was 158

17:41

. Oh

17:44

, we have to give Sonia's old episode . Do you know that number

17:46

by heart ? No , but I can find it , we'll find it out . So

17:49

in this session with Molly Ness , she

17:52

talked about how we should pause

17:54

for eight to

17:56

10 think-alouds

17:58

. Right , modeling our metacognitive

18:01

strategies , modeling what we're thinking

18:04

for our students , modeling

18:06

. I'm really confused

18:08

here . I'm going to pause and stop and reread

18:10

. Oh , I noticed this vocabulary word . That's

18:12

an interesting word . I wonder if it's talking about this character

18:14

. I wonder what so-and-so meant by that . So

18:16

really getting metacognitive

18:19

and just kind of saying what we're thinking about

18:21

eight to 10 times throughout a text or

18:23

throughout a read-aloud . I'm sorry , because

18:25

I think if we're reading a

18:27

text that is a little bit longer for our older

18:29

students we would do it eight to 10 times throughout

18:31

that read-aloud and with

18:33

our younger students , eight to 10 times throughout

18:36

a text or a read-aloud . That

18:38

makes sense , melissa .

18:40

Yeah , that makes sense , and

18:42

Sonia Cabell is 116 , episode

18:44

116 .

18:45

Cool , all right , we'll link all these in the show notes .

18:48

The next session I went to was about fluency , which

18:50

you know is one of my favorite topics , and

18:53

the speakers were Marianne Wolff and

18:55

Melissa Orkin . Marianne

18:57

Wolff , who we're both familiar with , read

19:00

Proust and the squid and

19:02

we I know we listen to her on an MPR

19:05

show and maybe something else

19:07

. Um , and , and I'm just gonna

19:09

be honest , we're like a little intimidated by

19:11

Mary Ann Woof , because she is extremely

19:13

intelligent , a

19:17

very smart lady , not

19:19

that no one else is , because they really are

19:21

no , I know , but I mean , yeah , I

19:23

mean when , when proust is in your title of

19:25

your book , you know you're here

19:29

, you're a smart , smart lady , so

19:31

I was very pleased that

19:33

she's hilarious and

19:36

she made it very easy to understand . So I

19:38

was like , oh , thank goodness , um , because

19:40

my brain was like not ready for Super

19:44

heavy material . But their

19:46

session was called the future of fluency

19:48

instructional strategies that reflect the

19:50

reading circuit , um

19:52

, and they talked a lot about just

19:55

the you know amount

19:57

of students , the number of students that they see

19:59

all the time . They said it's usually around 70

20:01

of students that have fluency issues

20:04

, right , that need more support with fluency

20:06

. But what they said is what happens

20:08

often is like we , we do the

20:10

the regular things for fluency , which

20:12

is aren't . None of these things were bad . They weren't saying

20:15

what you're doing is bad , you

20:17

know , but repeated readings , the

20:20

you know coral reading and echo

20:22

reading , all of those , all of those things that are really

20:24

good for fluency . But they said we

20:26

might want to dig a little bit deeper too , right

20:29

? So , in addition to those , you might want to think

20:31

about that this fluency issue just doesn't

20:33

like stand on its own right . So

20:35

it's not like there

20:38

are other things that affect A

20:40

student being able to read fluently

20:42

and we need to think about them all because they

20:45

all come together , um . So that

20:47

here . Here was one way that

20:50

Mary Ann Wolf was very smart

20:52

, so they talked about their multi-componential

20:54

you , yeah

20:56

right , multi-componential , um

20:59

, the the way of of

21:01

teaching fluency was is multi-componential

21:03

, and that helps to build the circuit . And

21:06

you might be familiar with the acronym

21:08

possum p o s s u

21:10

m . I know you are lory , I am

21:12

.

21:13

I know you only because Of

21:15

I read an article about possum , but

21:18

I don't know if anybody else is familiar with possum

21:20

other than the animal right .

21:22

Which is a helpful way to remember it . But

21:25

those are the , those are the different components

21:27

. So when we're talking about the different components that might

21:29

affect a student's fluency , these

21:31

are , these are the different components . So one

21:34

is just phoneme awareness , right , so making sure

21:36

that students are actually hearing the right sounds

21:38

, right , so that's a place

21:40

to start . Or the graphic awareness that

21:42

they're connecting those sounds to the letters correctly

21:45

, um , so you know , you're like , yes , this is

21:47

just phonemic awareness and phonics instruction , yes

21:49

, but some students might still be Having

21:51

struggles with that which is affecting their fluency

21:53

. So that's something to think about . But

21:56

then the s's are semantic word

21:58

meaning and syntactic knowledge , which is

22:00

, which is sentence level meaning , um

22:03

, which this was really interesting to

22:05

me because I don't

22:07

think we often connect meaning

22:10

and actually I'll throw in the m here too which is morphology

22:13

, which is the knowledge of the

22:15

, the meaning of word parts . So

22:17

all of those have to do with , like , the meaning

22:19

, um , and , and you know , you

22:22

kind of think of it as well if a student can decode

22:24

, they have down that phonemic awareness

22:26

and the orthographic awareness . What

22:29

do they need to know the meaning

22:31

for fluency ? Yes , absolutely they do

22:33

, and they gave a really cool example , um

22:36

, with two words , one lime

22:38

and the other word lie in

22:40

Um and they said , even

22:43

though Lime is technically

22:45

easier to read in terms of

22:47

, like , just L , I , M , e , right

22:49

, it's pretty straightforward . Lion

22:51

is a little trickier , the way the I and the O

22:53

make that lion sound . But

22:56

because lion is such for

22:58

kids , lion is like a more familiar

23:01

term . They they understand what a lion

23:03

is . Not all kids might have seen

23:05

a lime . They don't talk about limes that

23:07

often maybe . Maybe some kids

23:10

do , but a lot of kids don't , right , it's not something

23:12

that Um kids see as much that

23:14

they actually can read the word lion

23:17

quicker than they can read Lime

23:20

, which I just thought was really interesting . That , like

23:22

because they have more familiarity with

23:24

it , they have more of a meaning than

23:26

they can actually , they

23:29

can actually read it faster . So their fluency

23:31

is faster when they have more

23:33

connections to the meaning of the word , which

23:35

I just thought was really cool .

23:37

That is really neat and the you is understanding

23:39

.

23:40

Thank you very easy , right

23:44

? Yeah , so that was . That was their multi components

23:46

and how just thinking about fluency

23:49

as more than just Word calling

23:51

and rereading , and thinking about all

23:53

the different components that go into a student

23:55

being a fluent reader .

23:57

Cool . Did I tell you that I turned around

23:59

and saw both Mary Ann Wolfe and Melissa Orkin

24:02

at dinner one night ? I know you didn't yeah

24:04

, and I also heard somebody

24:06

yell Margaret and I was like

24:08

that's gotta be Margaret Goldberg , there's not

24:10

other Margaret .

24:12

No other .

24:12

Margaret , yes from the right to read project

24:14

, so I , of course , ran over . It's

24:17

like Margaret , that's you and

24:19

we . So I met some former guests , which

24:21

in person , which is so nice , and

24:23

Lonnie from the same episode as Margaret

24:25

. That was really awesome . That

24:28

was a while back . And then I

24:30

also met Amir Baraka

24:32

, who wrote it was dyslexic

24:35

, wrote a book about his experience Growing

24:37

up with dyslexia , and

24:39

it was just such a that was a

24:41

night where I just feel like I was Overwhelmed with

24:43

meeting people and my brain was even more on

24:45

overload .

24:47

We talked about him With

24:49

Julie and Sherry and

24:51

last summer . Yeah , I talked

24:54

about him on their episode .

24:55

Yeah , we did . We're gonna have to link all these episodes in the

24:57

show notes . Okay , so I think one

24:59

last session we want to talk about is Denise

25:02

I'd , which we both got to go to

25:04

. We did it was really fun , and

25:07

the title is is it time to rethink the definition

25:09

of phonics ? My big takeaway

25:11

English is logical , so

25:14

logical . I loved learning about it . I

25:16

was pumped For

25:18

all of these cool rules that I

25:20

didn't learn , all of these morphology things

25:22

that I didn't know before . So good , she's

25:24

great . If you don't , if you have not read uncovering the

25:27

logic of English , now is the time to pick it up .

25:29

I know , and you did you know , that Corey

25:31

Jensen Recommended that to us in

25:33

his episode , which was many Episodes

25:36

ago .

25:37

I don't remember that .

25:38

I know . So we took a while

25:41

to get on board and

25:43

we are telling you that you should not wait as long

25:45

as we should not wait , because

25:48

it is well worth it and

25:50

it really is just , I mean so logical

25:53

, right , and we , when you hear it , you know to hear things

25:55

like yes , you know the yeah

25:58

. There is a reason that there's

26:00

an e on the end sometimes , and it's not because

26:02

it changes the vowel sound , right , sometimes

26:04

it's what words can't end in

26:07

V , or you , so they just have an

26:09

e on the end For

26:11

sure , and it just explains it . You're like , there you

26:13

go , there's your explanation for so

26:16

many words .

26:17

Yeah , so okay , I'll give you an example . I

26:19

just thought I followed logic of English

26:22

on Instagram and love

26:24

how they put their the rules up and the different

26:26

Things we should know . So

26:28

C always softens to one

26:31

, followed by E , I or

26:33

Y .

26:34

Otherwise C says and

26:37

that explains circle and

26:39

circus , and and

26:41

cylinder and

26:43

cat absolutely

26:46

yeah , and all

26:49

of the rules are also on her website

26:51

, which is so , if you , you know , not

26:53

ready to get the book or dive into that

26:55

, you can go to logic of English calm and

26:57

she . She is not trying

26:59

to , you know , make money off things . She's trying to share

27:02

Information . So she

27:04

puts all the rules there too . So , you know

27:06

, you know , don't even have to buy the book , you can just go there

27:08

and see all the rules , but if

27:10

you want more , buy the book for sure . Yeah

27:12

, yeah , it's very , very good read

27:14

.

27:15

Yeah , so we have some

27:17

new friends of the podcast . After that conference

27:20

it was so nice to make new friends

27:22

and Just kind of

27:24

catch up with everyone . It was really fun to

27:26

meet our listeners . A lot of our

27:28

listeners . We're like , oh my gosh , you're more listen , laurie

27:30

, because we had our sweatshirts on . So

27:33

that was really fun .

27:34

Can we say that we recorded with Denise

27:37

I and she's gonna be on soon

27:39

?

27:39

Yeah , she's gonna be on really soon we just so get

27:41

ready after yeah , yeah

27:44

, we can't wait for you to hear that conversation

27:46

. She always blows my mind , so

27:48

love it . Thanks so much

27:50

for listening . Thanks , melissa , I'm glad we

27:52

got to do this . Thank you everybody , thanks

27:54

.

27:54

Laurie . To

27:58

stay connected with us , sign up for

28:00

our email list at literacy podcast calm , join our Facebook group and

28:02

follow us on Instagram and Twitter .

28:08

If this episode resonated with you , take

28:11

a moment to share with a teacher friend or leave us a five-star rating and review

28:13

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28:14

Just a quick reminder that the views and opinions expressed by the hosts

28:16

and guests

28:18

of the Melissa and Laurie love literacy podcast Are

28:22

not necessarily the opinions of great minds , pbc or its employees

28:24

.

28:30

We appreciate you so much and

28:32

we're so glad you're here to learn with us .