0:22

Hi, everyone. Welcome to the Men's ADHD

0:25

Support Group podcast. I

0:27

am really excited to do this

0:30

episode today. This is a subject that

0:32

is near and dear to my heart.

0:34

And today we're going to be talking about

0:36

navigating ADHD. As

0:39

a Hispanic male. And

0:41

this subject is really special to me because,

0:44

and I just gave this field to everyone before,

0:46

but many of us growing

0:48

up with ADHD, we don't

0:50

really have role models to look

0:52

up to. We feel, especially in Hispanic

0:54

communities, we feel very alone

0:57

and crazy and lazy

0:59

for having this condition and way of operating.

1:02

And one of my intentions

1:04

within the next year is to bring some more.

1:08

awareness to the Latin Hispanic

1:10

experience with ADHD. And I'm

1:12

so excited to be talking today

1:14

to James O'Gara and then

1:16

Julio. Julio, what's your last name? Rojas.

1:19

Julio Rojas. Awesome. That's crazy.

1:21

My mother's last name is Rojas too.

1:24

But But I'm really excited to be here

1:26

chatting with you both and we'll

1:28

start off with with you, James James,

1:31

tell me a little bit about yourself, your

1:34

background with ADHD.

1:36

Well, I mean, for my last name, it doesn't

1:38

sound Hispanic because my father

1:40

is Irish. My grandparents came from Ponce,

1:43

Puerto Rico. So my grandmother

1:46

had and my grandparents had 7 children. My

1:48

mom's 1 of 7, none of them married

1:50

Puerto Rican. So my family is very multicultural.

1:53

Going down the siblings married Irish.

1:56

Venezuelan my dad, Irish

1:58

off the boat Italian, off

2:01

the boat, Greek, like, literally jumped off the boat in New

2:03

York Harbor, was an illegal immigrant to

2:05

my, like, to my uncle's

2:08

married, German Irish. So,

2:10

I grew up with multiculturalism, like

2:12

all this, like, backlash against

2:14

diversity, well, that's my family. I can't

2:16

not be that. Thanksgiving

2:19

at my house, all these wonderful

2:21

foods from different, you know, the different cultures.

2:23

I didn't find out I was ADHD

2:25

until January 2021.

2:29

My sister, my youngest sister, who's 4

2:31

years younger than me said, Jim, I think

2:33

you're ADHD like me. She was diagnosed 2

2:35

years prior. So, March 25th,

2:38

2021 6 days before I turned

2:40

45. I got my diagnosis

2:42

for combined

2:45

type. I had. Been

2:47

diagnosed gifted at 5, I skipped

2:49

kindergarten, right? 1st grade. I

2:51

spent, like, maybe 4 days in kindergarten. So

2:54

I was always in advanced classes, but

2:56

I didn't realize my or it

2:58

was undiagnosed all that time. There's

3:01

times where I drop out, you know, and not perform

3:03

well enough to stay in the advanced classes, go back to regular.

3:06

Ace those because they were just too easy

3:08

and they get bumped back in. So that was like all

3:10

through my career in till,

3:13

I graduated high school, that was a pattern

3:16

in my academics. It wasn't,

3:18

my ADHD wasn't caught then,

3:21

or for probably a number of reasons, probably lack of understanding

3:23

or the myth that smart kids can't have ADHD.

3:27

But my parents separated when I was a freshman

3:29

in high school and my dad's an alcoholic

3:32

and. So there, there

3:34

were all my. Therapists

3:37

all the guidance counselors, the

3:39

counselor at school was focused on that

3:42

aspect of my life and they were

3:44

very helpful with that. And, so, I can't

3:46

fault them for not seeing the, you

3:48

know, or I don't, blame them for not seeing

3:50

it. And so that's that's kind

3:52

of me in a nutshell. I'm a. A music

3:54

teacher, I adjunct instructor at

3:56

the college level. And then I have

3:58

2 daughters, 11 and.

4:02

And they, um, after

4:04

I got my diagnosis, we realized, oh, they're

4:07

ADHD as well. So they got their diagnosis

4:09

in July 2022.

4:13

Wow. Okay. Well, excited to dive

4:15

further into that. Thank you for sharing

4:18

your story. And now, Julio,

4:20

can you tell me your background?

4:22

As far as when were you diagnosed with ADHD

4:24

and what that journey was like?

4:27

Yeah. So I, I

4:30

got diagnosed in 2010.

4:32

So basically for me, it was, Parents

4:36

came from Mexico to

4:38

California here and when I was

4:40

like three and a half years old, dad was always

4:42

working work two jobs. Mom you

4:45

know, wasn't too much in the picture. She

4:47

was also working. So,

4:49

in schools are quite different from me. I

4:51

so I was being taught in English

4:53

yet Spanish is my 1st language.

4:56

And not only was I taught in English

4:58

and Spanish me, my 1st language, I had a

5:01

so called learning I call

5:03

it a learning difference. Some people call it a learning disorder,

5:05

but just learn different. So, basically, I had to learn

5:08

the language and then I had to learn how to learn in that

5:10

language as ADHD years. We kind of learn different,

5:12

right? So I had two things, not in

5:14

my favor, so to speak. So then

5:16

I went, I mean, I basically just don't

5:18

even know how I flew through the school system. I,

5:21

I just don't really know, you know what I mean? I remember being in

5:23

high school, they're like, we're gonna ing it to a different

5:26

school because you you don't have enough credits This other

5:28

school was a you know, like the continuation. Anyway,

5:30

so I got outta there and then

5:33

you know, whatever, just work. Whatever. And

5:35

then like at 28, I just got really fed up

5:37

of people just, you

5:39

know, looking at me because my English was so bad

5:42

and, you know, and, and, having that that little self

5:44

esteem. Cause you can't communicate. I mean, throughout

5:46

my life, I dated, you know, also multicultural.

5:48

So I remember going to. To my girlfriend's

5:50

houses and and everyone speaking

5:53

English and I was just quiet because I didn't

5:55

understand what the heck they were saying. Yeah, I mean, the

5:57

stuff they were telling me. I was like, I don't know

5:59

what that means. You know, it was just very embarrassing.

6:01

So, basically, at 28, I got fed up. I'm like, I'm going

6:03

to go back to school. And so with the help of a

6:06

psychologist, I specialized with ADHD.

6:09

I went from straight F to

6:11

straight A's. And then all

6:14

of a sudden I'm like, well, this is interesting. I'm considered

6:16

dumb and then I'm smart because

6:18

I got straight A's and that I was able

6:20

to get into the 2 top public universities

6:22

in the United States at that point,

6:24

United University of California

6:27

at Berkeley and University of California at

6:29

Los Angeles. Anyway, so that that's

6:31

kind of what's going on with me. But

6:34

I guess for me, it was more about. My

6:37

mom was there Dad didn't support me

6:40

much. He didn't understand me. This mom was more

6:42

like, showed me love and I think that's what really

6:44

helped me. If she always accepted me for

6:46

who I was, you know what I mean? Dad

6:48

was more like, well, this is the way you do things

6:50

and that's the way you do things. Mom was more like, you know, do

6:52

things your way and. And so

6:54

I think that that support that I had from her,

6:56

even though she wasn't too much in the picture when

6:59

she was, she supported me a lot. That's kind of what got

7:01

me through. And to me, now, in retrospect,

7:03

that like that, that was very important. Extremely

7:05

important.

7:07

Wow, I hear you talk. I'm like, I

7:10

completely relate. Yeah, same

7:13

exact thing. Almost now. I'm,

7:17

I'm curious to hear from the 2 of you, what were

7:20

some of the challenges

7:23

and we're going to get into the positives of

7:25

it too. But some, maybe some of

7:27

the challenges that you

7:29

faced when getting

7:31

a diagnosis for ADHD

7:34

and if you

7:36

feel that, like, the Hispanic aspect of it was

7:38

at all part of it. So, like, what I'm asking is basically

7:40

is when I think about when I first sought

7:43

out an ADHD diagnosis at

7:45

that time, I pretty much had it. instilled

7:49

in me that I was that I was lazy.

7:52

That I just wasn't applying myself as much as

7:54

I should. And a

7:57

lot of that came from the fact that most

8:01

of my

8:03

family, my, my mother at the time

8:05

and my aunts and everything like that, they

8:08

didn't even know what the term ADHD meant, you

8:10

know what I mean? Like it was just like a hyperactive

8:13

boy and everything like that. For me, I was, I

8:15

was diagnosed with an inattentive type.

8:18

And You know, for

8:21

me, it was like the stigma

8:24

that that a lot of our culture

8:26

tends to have around something like this was definitely,

8:29

it wasn't a full block, but it was, it was definitely

8:31

a bump in the road that I faced. So I was wondering if any

8:33

of you two relate to that, what are your thoughts on

8:35

that?

8:36

I don't know if it's necessarily a

8:38

cultural thing as maybe a

8:41

A growing understanding thing over

8:44

time, like that in that, like,

8:46

an ex-girlfriend of mine, this would have been like 2002,

8:49

you know, I was, I'm in New York city, you

8:51

know, we go hang out with one of her best friends and the

8:54

best friend's boyfriend is a, like

8:56

a filmmaker and he's got ADHD, but

8:59

you know, I don't think my girlfriend at the time was like saying,

9:02

I see the traits he has in you. Like we

9:04

didn't it just wasn't on our radar.

9:06

Like in my, I think my family. We

9:10

knew, so

9:12

this is a teenager. So like, I mean, I graduated high school in

9:15

93. No, we did go to therapy

9:17

at times for like, you know, actually my

9:19

parents splitting up. My uncle.

9:22

The, the 1 that jumped off the boat Greek,

9:25

he passed away somewhere of 96 for cancer.

9:27

So we did have therapists met

9:30

with therapists to talk about grief. And

9:32

we knew that my grandfather, the

9:34

Puerto Rican grandfather, he fought in

9:36

World War 2, and we knew that he

9:38

had post traumatic stress

9:40

disorder from that PTSD. And that's

9:44

1 reason why he was a workaholic, but so

9:47

we were folk. I think my family was focused on,

9:49

like trauma, and

9:51

we didn't know that we

9:53

had these neurotypes. Brain

9:55

brains differences like recently, when

9:57

my cousins got diagnosed with

10:00

general anxiety disorder it just, but

10:02

I think we just, it's just lack

10:05

of general knowledge, not necessarily

10:07

a thing that, you know, we have a Puerto Rican family, I

10:09

don't think it's just, I think

10:11

greater awareness. Over

10:13

time of. Mental health

10:15

and mental conditions and neurotypes

10:18

is what because looking back

10:20

though, like a good number of my cousins,

10:23

you know, like, you could tell we were ADHD as kids,

10:25

you know, bouncing around, you know, being

10:27

huge risk takers or doing impulsive stuff

10:30

had I think our parents known we

10:32

might have, you know, been diagnosed.

10:37

Yeah, no, definitely. Yeah. And

10:39

by the way, maybe I worded it a little weird, but I'm

10:41

in complete agreement. It is definitely a

10:43

lack of. Awareness

10:46

kind of like I mentioned early on, like, they don't even know a lot

10:48

of them and even know what ADHD is and

10:52

and our education system

10:54

definitely has to come into play there a

10:56

little bit in my view. But yeah,

10:59

100 percent Julio.

11:01

Did you have any thoughts on that?

11:04

Yeah, for me, it was more about,

11:06

I mean, I've

11:08

asked my mom a few times and I think, you

11:10

know, I mean, they were just too worried

11:12

about, putting food on the table and sending

11:15

my dad, you know, sending money back to Mexico

11:17

and so they,

11:19

you know, it was just work, work, work and more work.

11:23

So, I think definitely a lack of knowledge.

11:25

I mean, back in those days, you know, growing

11:27

up, I think I mean, it wasn't much research like

11:29

there is now and like, there's probably like only

11:31

a few medications around. I

11:33

mean, I could tell you that if I

11:35

believe that if they would have got me diagnosed,

11:38

life would have been a lot easier.

11:40

But in a way, I think that it got me stronger,

11:42

though, you know, if you want to get a positive, like, going

11:45

through this tough. Being here, it kind of got

11:47

me a little stronger. But then again,

11:49

we don't know what would happen if I had I got medicated.

11:52

You know, maybe I found out earlier that I was straight

11:54

A student versus like way later in life.

11:56

And I felt dumb and the self

11:58

esteem would have been better. Yeah, and

12:00

in terms of therapy, I

12:03

laugh at it now, but I remember one time.

12:05

So my dad used to take, I used to like to dress nice,

12:07

for, you know, want to look good. Yeah. And

12:09

my dad would take my clothes away and he would just give

12:11

me one, one set of pants and one shirt.

12:14

So I remember going to, you

12:16

know, getting sent to therapy

12:18

and mom would show up. And, and then like, we

12:20

went there like three times. And then a third time,

12:23

like the therapist is like, Oh, you brought your uniform.

12:25

You know what I mean? Cause it was always the same, same

12:27

shirt, same pants. And so she,

12:29

you know, I think she finally think three after

12:31

the 4th time said, you know what, that's

12:33

not showing up. And I clearly

12:36

remember these, these words, lost cause this is

12:38

a lost cause. I had no clue

12:40

what that meant. Yeah, to me, it was more

12:42

like, Oh, I guess we're, I guess we're not coming back.

12:44

she, she can't help us. She goes, the father

12:46

needs to show up. And my

12:49

dad didn't believe in that. He was just

12:51

like, you know, we can have their own business here.

12:53

We don't need anybody to get in our business and blah, blah,

12:55

blah. Yeah. So that was definitely

12:58

a challenge, I think, in retrospect,

13:00

you know, that could have helped, right? The therapy and then

13:02

the knowledge of, you know,

13:05

what is this ADHD thing? Maybe my

13:07

son has it. I mean, no one caught it. Like, I

13:09

remember being in class and because

13:12

I'm combined type, so they would put

13:14

me on the side, like, there would be a bunch of kids here

13:16

and that would be like on the side there. And I would ask,

13:18

like, As much as I could in the

13:20

language and, you know, like, why am

13:22

I here? And why are they there? You know what I mean? Like, because,

13:25

I'm, I guess I was just talking a lot

13:27

and trying to start conversations with people and

13:29

they were just trying to teach the tradition, the traditional

13:31

school system way, which

13:34

obviously, you know, for most of us doesn't work.

13:37

So, yeah, so those are definitely some some challenges.

13:39

And definitely low self esteem. You know what I mean?

13:41

No, I mean, there's just so many

13:43

different ways that we can go with that. Because

13:46

like I said, similar case to me. With my background,

13:48

I grew up, I'm from Washington Heights in New York City.

13:50

I grew up around a lot of Dominicans and whatnot.

13:53

And, in a very low income area.

13:57

I mean, Shane kind of sent

13:59

me a comment as you were talking on what you said,

14:01

because the reality

14:04

is, is that there are a lot of Hispanic

14:06

kids growing up with a mom who's

14:08

working two jobs to

14:10

hold it down and everything like that. Like

14:13

we're talking like lack of awareness

14:15

with ADHD. I mean, what time do they even have

14:17

to be aware of that? You know what I mean? James,

14:20

I saw you got your hand up. I mean, do you have any thoughts

14:22

on that or anything you want to contribute?

14:24

Well, I want to share actually what my sister wrote my

14:26

ADHD sister. Her name's Katie because

14:28

I told her I was going to be doing this podcast. And I, you

14:30

know, did she have any thoughts about growing up in our family

14:33

and did that being

14:35

Puerto Rican that had that affected

14:37

us with our neurodivergence? And she wrote well, nothing

14:39

super in particular because. But

14:42

I will say, because it is a cultural thing in Latino

14:44

families, is the teasing. Outsiders

14:46

may think it's mean, but it's always done out of love.

14:49

Like calling our sister, other sister, Kelly, Blanca,

14:52

you know, white. So

14:54

like my, me and my sister have my mom's

14:56

coloring Katie have my mom's coloring. Kelly

14:59

has my mom's facial features, but my dad's

15:02

skin color. So she's when

15:04

we were, mom would go grocery shopping, like

15:06

my mom looks like Maria from Sesame

15:08

Street she would, oh, good.

15:10

Oh, who's this kid? You're babysitting. And, you know,

15:13

my mom be like that's my daughter. Are

15:15

also our grandmother would call 1 of my cousins

15:17

as a baby. You know, a

15:20

little chubby. And so my sister. Keeps

15:22

writing and in regards to neurodivergence

15:24

with rejection sensitivity, dysphoria,

15:27

sometimes it hurt and it made me feel unloved,

15:29

even though I knew I was. Also

15:32

something that happens in Latino families is just

15:34

the non accepting acceptance. And

15:36

she wrote, watch the Saturday Night Live

15:38

skits with Pedro Pascal as a Latino mom.

15:41

Yeah. Oh, my baby does not have depression. He just

15:43

gets sad sometimes. Yeah. Or,

15:46

or she writes literal quotes from our family.

15:48

That's just the way he or she is shrugging

15:50

his shoulders. I think a lot of Latino

15:53

kids don't mask around their families because their behavior

15:55

is just accepted, even though not understood.

15:58

And, you know, like, yeah,

16:00

I was known as the, the

16:02

nerd in the family, the geek. I was into, like, comic

16:05

books. I was just, I was a little weird, but okay,

16:07

you know, but we love you. You know, like, we

17:22

don't understand your weirdness. And like, my best

17:24

friend in high school. He once said to

17:26

me and I quote, Jim, you're the weirdest

17:28

person I know, but that's why

17:30

I love you. And I like having you around. And,

17:33

and so Julio, like, when you said your mom, you know,

17:35

being accepting of who you are and just giving you

17:37

that love that, you know, that was there

17:39

even in our family, even if there wasn't

17:42

understanding.

17:46

Oh man. I think Shane. I think

17:48

we might make this like a four part series

17:50

up so many different directions I can

17:52

go.

17:53

So I want to, for the podcast

17:56

listeners out there, I want to sit here and say something

17:58

Jim has. The brightest

18:01

green goatee I

18:03

have ever seen on a person.

18:06

It is absolutely amazing. And

18:08

I just need y'all to understand this. But

18:10

no, I, I just, that's all I wanted to say as far

18:12

as that was concerned for what's for the podcast.

18:14

Oh man, that is the best interruption

18:17

you have ever done. It

18:19

has nothing to do with what he was saying.

18:22

I've been looking at it for like, for 15

18:25

minutes now, and I'm just like, I have to say

18:27

something or I'm just going to

18:29

explode.

18:30

And, and, and what's, what's funny is like when

18:32

When I was younger, I had hair hair down to

18:34

my shoulders, curly, like

18:37

beautiful hair and curls

18:39

that women pay money for. But, you know,

18:41

I'm a musician, you know, I've played on stages

18:43

all over the country, but now I'm a dad

18:45

and, you know, how can I be cool for my kids? And

18:47

my girls were like, can you dye your beard? And I've done it pink,

18:50

blue, multiple colors. And

18:52

obviously this is for a St. Patrick's day. Yeah.

18:55

And my daughters do Irish dancing.

18:57

So I played guitar while they did a performance

19:00

at their school. So that's what this was for.

19:02

That's awesome. That's awesome.

19:04

I love that.

19:06

Change. Can we tangents real

19:08

quick? And this is for, this

19:11

is for all three of you, and this is just me being super

19:13

curious, because Jim, with your

19:15

background being Irish Puerto Rican,

19:18

and Julio, with you growing up

19:20

where you did y'all celebrate

19:22

all of the holidays? Like,

19:26

like growing up, was that a, was that a major thing?

19:28

Because whenever I think about the Hispanic culture

19:30

is like that, my uncle

19:33

who married my aunt, he was

19:35

Hispanic and every year,

19:37

like. Everyone

19:40

came together like four or five times

19:42

a year from like hundreds of

19:44

miles apart to come together

19:46

and have these gigantic like,

19:50

like backyard barbecue front

19:52

yard was like had all the kids playing

19:55

and then All the women were in the kitchen,

19:57

and it was just this huge

20:00

mess of people who were just

20:02

having fun. Was that something that y'all really

20:04

experienced a lot of?

20:06

I'm actually really glad that you brought that up, Shane,

20:08

because there's a powerful point that we

20:10

can get into on just holiday events,

20:12

like, all together. And I'm curious to see

20:14

if any of you two relate. But in my

20:16

experience, to answer your question directly, Shane, I

20:18

mean, there, there, there have been

20:21

definitely holidays, like, I mean, like, Easter,

20:23

for example, like, I have yet to meet, like, anyone

20:26

in my family who acknowledges that day.

20:29

But, and we'll do, like, Christmas on Christmas

20:31

Eve. I don't know if y'all relate to that,

20:33

but, like, Christmas is just another day

20:35

for us here. But, When

20:38

we would get together, we

20:41

would get together, like people would like

20:43

travel and everything like that. And we would see everybody.

20:47

And that

20:50

time was always a time that I, that

20:54

I dreaded. And I promised like with this podcast,

20:56

I do want to get into the positive aspect

20:58

of things. And I, I really don't want

21:00

to have that victim mentality field, but I'm

21:02

going to temporarily step into that space.

21:05

But when those

21:08

holiday seasons would occur, That's

21:11

when the

21:13

comparing would happen

21:16

to like the cousin who is well organized

21:18

and a straight A student and everything like that and maybe

21:21

doing well in his job and everything like that. And,

21:25

you know, and I would look at myself and

21:27

think that I'm, that

21:29

I'm doing something terrible, but the one that would, that

21:32

this would really impact is actually my mother. Not

21:35

even because she didn't love me or anything like that, but because.

21:38

She felt the whole time that, and mind you, she

21:40

didn't know about like, what ADHD was like,

21:42

but it would like impact her self

21:45

confidence. It's like, why is my son struggling

21:47

with school? And, you

21:49

know, like, what am I doing that's wrong?

21:53

And yeah, I mean, just, just thinking

21:55

about that time, it, I just, I just thought a lot

21:57

about comparing

21:59

myself to others, like the shame I would

22:01

get for not being interested in some of the same

22:04

things. Like James, you talked about how you were

22:06

into comic books. I mean, can you tell that

22:08

Batman is my thing? You know, I,

22:10

I was, I was always that

22:12

like nerdy and like weird kid

22:14

and everything like that. And you know,

22:16

those, those times were definitely a little bit challenging,

22:19

but what, what do y'all have to say on

22:21

that? I guess we'll start off with you Julio.

22:23

All right, man. I, I don't remember

22:26

much. I think that due to the,

22:28

you know, being 1st generation here, like

22:30

parents that they were still trying to assimilate.

22:33

They were still trying to figure things out and.

22:35

And then again, I don't think they had much time

22:37

to figure things out really because there were just work, work,

22:39

work and more work. So I do remember

22:42

the Christmas Eve. Definitely. Like, we would we

22:44

wait until 12 PM, you know,

22:46

and then here, having the Mexican background

22:48

that the tomales we'll just wait until, you know,

22:50

whatever midnight and then start opening our

22:52

presence.

22:53

So, my family, you know, my family, it was big.

22:56

I am in my generation. I'm 1 of 18.

22:58

My mom is 1 of 7. So,

23:00

our family get togethers are like, 25

23:03

for for Christmas is small. We

23:06

are you mentioned tomales?

23:09

Puerto Ricans have pasteles. You

23:11

know, meat and mashed plantains and,

23:13

you know, I remember making those every Christmas. It's like a

23:15

2 day affair of everyone

23:18

taking turns mashing yucca and

23:20

plantains and making this mixture

23:22

and then tying them up and cooking. We would cherish

23:25

like our family allotment and, you know, put them in the freezer

23:27

and, and save them. So

23:29

I think having that big family,

23:31

just like I have friends. Built

23:34

in, you know, my cousins were my first friends and

23:37

my family is a little different Julio, in

23:39

that my mom and her generation,

23:42

they weren't raised bilingual. My parents,

23:45

my grandparents kept like Spanish as

23:47

a language between them. They wanted their kids to assimilate

23:50

a number of my. Ants have went

23:52

back and learn Spanish, in their adult

23:55

year. So, like, 2 or 3 of my aunts are

23:57

fluent. So my,

23:59

you know, on 1 level, my family is, it

24:01

was very Americanized, but, like,

24:03

you look at my aunts and uncles, they're

24:06

not, the olive skinned and

24:09

you can tell, you get the, well, where are you guys

24:11

really from? So we,

24:14

we try to get together a lot. Some of

24:16

my aunts and uncles moved away, but like a

24:18

good number of us live in Long Island, but we hawk

24:20

and so, we would try to get together

24:23

often as a family and multiple

24:25

times during the year.

24:27

And do you relate as far as the, the comparing

24:30

yourself thing or,

24:32

I, I don't think we had that,

24:34

like, competition in our family or like that. It

24:36

was always like, what, what No, we always

24:38

share what we were doing, you know, be it academically

24:41

or activities. And we, I think

24:43

I was fortunate in having a family that was just

24:45

really well, everyone has their gifts

24:48

and. You know, you should pursue

24:50

them. I have cousins who are artistic and can draw

24:52

like one of my, one of my cousins ended up working

24:54

for Martha Stewart for a while and, you know, decorating

24:57

and like, I don't

24:59

have that skill, you know, but I'm the musician of

25:01

the family. And, I got my degrees in music. So

25:03

we were always pushed and our

25:06

individuality celebrated.

25:09

That's awesome. Cool. Love

25:11

that. We

25:14

talked early on about, like, a lot of the

25:16

the struggles that we face being

25:19

due to lack of awareness and information

25:21

out there on. Navigating ADHD.

25:26

I mean, where do we even, where

25:28

do we even start with that? What does taking

25:30

step forward look like there? Like, is, is

25:32

it a political thing of, of many

25:34

of our parents having to work two

25:36

jobs and, and struggling

25:39

to make it week, week by week? I mean, what

25:41

is it here?

25:42

Well, I mean, I don't know how it is

25:45

in like public schools now. One,

25:47

we send our daughters to a private school

25:50

because my wife is Jewish. So they go to a Jewish

25:52

day school. So actually, side note,

25:54

when, you know, I said to my grandmother, oh, I'm marrying

25:56

someone Jewish, she was like, no problem,

25:58

mijo, just tell me when, you know, when the wedding

26:00

is, I'll be there. Is, is public

26:03

awareness of ADHD, you know,

26:05

in, in kids, are

26:07

they getting identified earlier? Are there, are we still

26:09

having this misconception that it's just,

26:12

you know, bouncing boys and

26:14

then it shows up differently in girls? I'd

26:17

like to think as a whole, maybe

26:19

there is, you know, and I

26:21

don't since my kids go to a school where

26:23

they're not really it's not their school

26:25

is not diverse. They get, they encounter.

26:27

Cultural diversity in their summer camps,

26:30

I've seen the statistic. Yes, people of color

26:32

are not getting diagnosed as much, but

26:34

I have to think it's. Hopefully

26:36

it'll be better in schools than it was

26:38

back in the 80s when I was, you

26:41

know, in elementary, middle school.

26:42

It is, yeah. It's grown in that way.

26:44

We're still, we still got some work to

26:46

do, but It's

26:49

definitely growing. Julio.

26:50

I think that, you know, I'm

26:52

also an ADHD coach and

26:55

going through training people get diagnosed

26:57

and oh, my God, they're there. That's what I did. So, basically,

27:00

I got diagnosed at 35 by 20

27:02

years. I started going back to college, but at

27:04

35, I actually got diagnosed, which is. 14

27:07

years ago. Anyway, so I when I got

27:09

diagnosed, I basically it's funny

27:11

because I saw them in my training. That's what they did.

27:13

They're like, oh, my God, I'm diagnosed as explains everything.

27:15

So they start to do a whole bunch of research.

27:17

So that's that was me in 2010. Like, I'm

27:20

in research book. I mean, we would have been in my

27:22

other room. You would probably see. 300

27:24

books, and they're all, you know, psychology,

27:26

ADHD, personal development. So

27:29

I think there's a lot out there. There's

27:32

TikTok, there's YouTube. And then, the

27:34

doctors, Dotson and Barkley and all

27:36

these other folks that are doing the actual research,

27:39

so I think for me, there's, seems like there's a lot

27:41

out there. I just don't know

27:43

that. I

27:45

don't know what folks wanna do with that from, I

27:47

mean, and again, this is just my perspective

27:50

on, on when I go on YouTube and, 'cause, you know, a

27:52

bunch of a d ADHD stuff pops up because,

27:54

the algorithm or whatever. So I

27:58

think it's a matter of what happens when,

28:00

I'm 16 and oh, neurodiverse

28:03

or this, or that? And then

28:05

now I kind of like that might be me. Like, what

28:07

does 1 do in that, you know, depending on

28:10

again, depending on the

28:12

awareness of the family, right? Because at

28:14

16, you can't just say, oh, I'm going to go get diagnosed

28:17

because that's what I did at 35. I said, I'm

28:19

going to get diagnosed. But at 16, what

28:21

do you do? What do you do at 12? And so,

28:24

and do they even want to get diagnosed, right?

28:26

Or do they even, or, and then, you

28:28

know, we want to follow the crowd when we're like, I remember

28:30

wanting to be with the here. They call them the homies.

28:32

You know, we want to be with the homies. The

28:34

homies are doing their thing. I don't want to do

28:37

like, what would I want to go a book? What

28:39

would I want to be a bookworm? You know what I mean? Yeah,

28:41

because, you know, in the, in the barrio, in the hood, we're doing

28:43

other things. We're not doing reading and writing.

28:46

I mean, I was, The neutral

28:48

guy, he was like, I never wanted like to

28:51

be doing bad things. I also want I want

28:53

to do good things. And when they did the bad things, I would

28:55

always like, make an excuse. You know, I got

28:57

to go do this real quick. I'll meet you guys later.

28:59

So that kind of saved me and mom

29:01

was again. Mom was always in the background that you would

29:04

hear that voice, don't get in trouble. Don't,

29:06

go hang out with those guys. And so again,

29:08

like, wow, this is, this, this

29:10

podcast is like really bringing, like, I never had

29:12

thought about it as much as. Having that

29:15

support, you know what I mean? How, how important support

29:17

is. And so the voice was always there and

29:19

I think that saved me a lot. So

29:21

again, like, I don't I don't know that. I

29:23

mean, you know, I know people in the UK

29:25

that in, in, in other areas

29:27

coaches there and, and it's really getting

29:30

there. Right? And a lot of people are becoming more

29:32

aware, but here in the U. S.

29:35

I think that it's,

29:37

it's believing that there is

29:39

help out there and 1 to get that

29:41

help I think is very important versus

29:44

like, ah, that's just a bunch of nonsense.

29:47

Yeah, you know, being a little more open.

29:49

I think that would be key to me.

29:51

No doubt. Yeah, that's a good point. And,

29:53

times are way different now, too. I mean, we,

29:58

as an organization, the men's ADHD support

30:00

group, we reach 17,

30:02

000 people through social media

30:04

for free without charging. You know what I mean?

30:07

And, and that's, that's a good way

30:09

to use social media. And

30:11

information has become much more accessible.

30:14

And the process that started when I was

30:16

a teen, but it's definitely gotten so far. So that's

30:19

a really good point. I mean, my, my

30:21

two cents on it is and I'll give a shout

30:23

out to my friend. Cam

30:26

he's the host of a podcast called Translating

30:28

ADHD. They're, they're a top five

30:30

podcast for people with ADHD. But,

30:33

he did this awesome series where,

30:35

like a month or two, He was

30:37

highlighting people of color, like

30:39

he was bringing in like he

30:41

brought in my friend John Hazelwood,

30:44

who does work for black men with ADHD.

30:46

He had me speak on it and things like that.

30:49

What I think is beneficial

30:52

is when it comes to these

30:57

leaders with

30:59

ADHD books, you know, you mentioned Julio, you

31:02

have like a, like a library, you

31:04

know what I mean? When it comes to big ADHD

31:06

platforms on YouTube and things like that

31:08

my words of encouragement would always be

31:10

to understand

31:13

that a person of color has a voice and

31:18

giving people like us

31:20

platforms To share

31:22

this message and reach somebody who was probably

31:24

just like us and probably

31:26

a little bit stuck in their head when it comes

31:28

to lacking in self confidence and whatnot. It

31:32

can really make a difference for the better. And

31:35

there's no such thing as too much of it. You

31:37

know what I mean? Like Julio, I'm an ADHD

31:39

coach too. I hear that you're a coach and I think great.

31:43

There's more of us, there's, there's millions

31:45

and millions of people diagnosed with ADHD

31:47

and it's a more of us, the better type of thing.

31:51

And on the flip side too, if you're somebody who has

31:53

a voice, I

31:55

mean, share that thing. You

31:57

know what I mean? Even if you are doing

31:59

an Instagram live with only 10 people watching,

32:02

if you're impacting those 10 people for the better, then

32:05

that's a positive step forward, you

32:08

know?

32:08

Listening to you to it brought up, like, 2 thoughts in

32:10

my mind were that I think with my

32:12

family, it was,

32:15

we just didn't know about ADHD. My aunts and

32:17

uncles all cared all 1

32:19

of the best for us and I think of my. Oldest

32:22

cousin who's sadly, took his life

32:25

back in April of 2005. I'm

32:27

sorry. And he had been struggling with mental

32:29

health issues his entire life. But

32:32

looking at it, we think, well, he

32:34

may have been undiagnosed ADHD.

32:37

So that all the treatment for depression

32:39

wasn't getting at the root cause of

32:42

the issues in his life. And it's

32:44

not. Because his

32:46

mother or any of us in the family didn't

32:49

love him enough, you know, his mother didn't

32:51

deny him going to therapy we did not

32:53

know probably what the root of his,

32:56

his mental pain was, so

32:58

that that was 1 thought. And the other thought was being

33:02

multicultural, I was a bridge in

33:04

my community. Like, I was thinking about, growing up

33:06

you know, I'd hang out with the Latino kids.

33:09

My friends. Omar, Denny,

33:12

Jose, Rodolfo, and then

33:14

I'd go and easily hang out the white

33:16

kids in my town, with names like Paul,

33:18

Josh, and, all the typical

33:21

white names, and I was fortunate that I was

33:23

accepted in both groups and neither group

33:25

said, you don't belong here. My

33:27

friends who are Puerto Rican never said to me, oh, you're not Puerto

33:29

Rican enough. So I

33:31

was blessed in that, you know, the acceptance

33:34

and I think I

33:37

told my niece who's Puerto Rican,

33:39

Irish and black, she's felt

33:41

that in her growing up that she

33:43

was not enough for any of those groups. And I say. Well,

33:46

that's where you turn around and say, no, I

33:48

choose you and you get to be

33:51

the bridge between these groups. And

33:53

I think more of us

33:56

who are multicultural come along. That's

33:59

what's going to happen. And we'll change the culture

34:01

of our respective groups for the better. It's

34:04

amazing. Love that.

34:08

All right. What's if you were able

34:10

to go back in time and give yourself

34:12

a piece of advice when you were at struggling

34:15

at your worst with ADHD, what

34:17

would that be? For

34:20

me. I would

34:22

tell myself that

34:28

you underperforming

34:30

in school, the disorganized

34:33

room, the struggles with self confidence

34:37

that doesn't come from a place of you being

34:40

broken, it comes

34:42

from a place of you simply

34:45

not understanding how your system works.

34:47

Yeah. And having been taught how

34:50

everyone else's system works, you

34:53

just need to understand what your strengths

34:55

are and how to navigate

34:57

the different challenges you face and

35:01

you will see how far you can excel. Yeah,

35:07

I think I would go for. I think a

35:09

lot of my problems in my life came from impulsivity.

35:13

And I look back and there's like, plenty

35:15

of times I should have died, like, you know, taping

35:18

pennies to railroad things,

35:20

or I jumped into

35:22

the mud underneath of a bridge in a river near our

35:24

home, try it and show my friends.

35:26

Oh, that's solid ground. Well, I sunk

35:29

up to mud to my chest. I could have,

35:31

like, really injured myself. going

35:33

back. This

35:36

wasn't a thing back then, but, you know, teaching

35:38

mindfulness teaching that pause.

35:42

Think about the effects of what your

35:44

choices will be. Yeah, I know

35:46

they're teaching that to young kids now in school.

35:49

So it's mindfulness is a thing in the in

35:51

general culture. Now.

35:54

I wish I had that. Going back

35:56

all the way to 1980, you know,

35:58

like when I was five, that would have been nice

36:01

to have that then. Julio.

36:02

Yeah. Everything you guys said. I

36:04

would say it's your own unique way

36:07

of learning, just keep doing it your

36:09

way. Do your thing, you know, ask

36:11

questions. And I

36:13

think that, I mean, as an ADHD for me,

36:16

I always had like, for whatever reason, this instinct

36:18

that this is right, that's wrong.

36:21

So if I were to ask a question, I was like, that's not quite

36:23

it. And I would ask, you know, ask a lot of questions period

36:25

anyway, and so I could figure it out. I was

36:28

a go getter. I was pushed. I was like, I

36:30

didn't settle. I mean, I think that the only thing

36:32

that kind of got me was the language, right? It's kind

36:35

of like, you're being spoken

36:37

to in this language that you don't quite understand.

36:39

So you just got to have to figure it out through seeing things

36:42

or like, okay, did it, did it like this? I remember watching

36:44

TV and, I just watched it

36:46

for the way people moved and they did things

36:48

so again, it's just, this

36:50

is how you are. You,

36:53

your unique way and just keep doing it your way. You'll

36:55

figure it out.

36:56

Love that.

37:01

Now, what about to a listener who is

37:05

fully related to everything that we're, we're

37:07

all saying here and just got diagnosed

37:09

with ADHD or maybe not even diagnosed

37:11

yet, but feels they have it. Where

37:15

do they start?

37:18

Well, start with this. Okay.

37:21

Whether or not you have ADHD does not change

37:23

the fact that you

37:26

are lovable. You are capable

37:28

of loving and capable of

37:30

being loved, so, you know, I

37:32

know so many of us struggle in relationships,

37:35

but our worth, our, our

37:37

basic worth of as a being does

37:40

not change with how your brain is wired.

37:43

And then I, I think. You

37:45

know, that framing the challenges our

37:47

ADHD brain has. A

37:50

lot of those challenges can be positives,

37:53

you know, and so the

37:56

whole idea of learning how to work with your brain,

37:59

rather than against it. That applies for

38:01

anyone, but when I was. Talking

38:03

with 1 of my mentors recently, we

38:06

she was the registrar at the college. I

38:08

went to, and she was like,

38:10

Jim, when you were there, we didn't, even if

38:12

I thought you had, where

38:14

it came across as was an

38:16

incredible amount of enthusiasm

38:18

when you were excited about something, like, was something you're

38:20

interested in. Your enthusiasm

38:23

was off the charts, and that was infectious

38:25

for other people. So learning

38:28

how to frame these challenges

38:31

as positives, or, you know,

38:33

can have positive sides to it is

38:35

I think the most important thing part

38:37

of the reason my, my, my wife loves me.

38:40

Is my ADHD, even though

38:42

we didn't know what it was. I'm the one who's

38:44

always seeking fun in our relationship

38:47

coming up with ideas for dates, you know,

38:49

that it's not all stuff that I want to do. It's

38:51

fun. It's, finding out stuff that she wants

38:53

to do. It's fun and planning that date. Well,

38:56

that's direct out of

38:58

my novelty sinking for ADHD.

39:01

So those two things. It's

39:04

awesome.

39:05

Shane sent me a message as you were saying that saying, I

39:07

swear to God, Mark, I've heard you say that exact same

39:09

thing because I believe the exact same thing.

39:12

It's no doubt. I mean, it's like when

39:14

we think about Our lives as someone

39:16

with ADHD and and the the

39:20

comments that we've been met with and

39:22

the self dialogue that we often always have. It's,

39:25

we're lazy, we're just not applying ourselves,

39:29

we're not enough, all these type of things.

39:32

So when you're talking about like actually learning

39:34

to navigate the thing, it's

39:37

like half the battle is learning to build self

39:39

confidence and seeing your worth. beyond

39:42

learning how to do laundry. It's a self, it's a self

39:44

taught game that a lot of us are, are playing

39:46

here. And that's

39:49

just the truth. We're lovable. And

39:53

the people that we compare themselves to,

39:56

like, they have their own set of flaws too.

39:58

We might just not be seeing it so much on a,

40:00

on a highlight reel, like social media, but

40:03

That's just 100%. Well said, James. Thank

40:05

you.

40:06

And, and I think, seeing representation

40:09

of us in popular media.

40:11

I, I mentioned, um, Maria

40:14

from Sesame Street, you know, that

40:16

she looks like she could have been one of my aunts.

40:18

My, like my top three

40:20

guitarists, but like one of the biggest inspirations

40:23

for me is Carlos Santana. He's,

40:25

Mexican and, but, you know, growing up

40:28

on Long Island, you know, all my white friends, you know,

40:30

all these rockers, you know, yeah, I love Led

40:32

Zeppelin and, you know, Jimmy Page, Eric Clapton,

40:34

but like, I was able to latch onto Carlos

40:36

Santana. There's someone Latino, like me

40:39

making music and rock music and

40:42

leaning into being Hispanic. So,

40:44

like, now with, social

40:46

media and stuff we can, and people being

40:48

able to talk about, we're seeing people,

40:51

I have ADHD, Justin Timberlake, I'm thinking

40:53

of just musician off the top of my head who

40:55

has ADHD, you know, 30

40:58

percent of musicians and people in the arts

41:01

are neurodivergent. Like there was a recent study about

41:03

that. That's a lot. Yeah

41:06

and then those who are open

41:08

about how their brain works, I'm thinking of

41:10

like Selena Gomez talking about her mental

41:12

mental health issues. No, that's just

41:15

inspiring to, anyone,

41:17

you know, there's, there's some girl out there who heard

41:20

her talk about that, who feels

41:22

heard and seen and there's

41:24

someone like me on up there.

41:26

Yeah, no doubt about it.

41:28

Well said. Julio?

41:31

Yeah, I'll give you my take because

41:33

I think it wasn't until I actually got serious

41:36

that things changed for me. It actually

41:38

picked up the phone and said,

41:41

I called the psychologist from

41:43

a pay phone. Remember that that's back in the days

41:45

in the pay phone. Yeah. And

41:48

I was serious about this. I'm serious about

41:50

making a change and it

41:53

all started for me. It all started there because

41:55

again, I was, you know, I was the leader of my group.

41:57

I was a clown. For me, didn't

41:59

get me anywhere. You know what I mean? It just got me more

42:01

of like dopamine. And so,

42:04

Hey, so if I'm making people laugh, if I'm people

42:06

pleasing, everybody's liking me, why change

42:08

everything is cool. I just keep my little

42:10

warehouse job and do this and do

42:12

that and not really grow. Right.

42:14

So it was until like, I'm going to learn this language

42:17

well, so people can respect me. And

42:20

so I would say that there's

42:24

help, there's support. The

42:26

ball is in your court. You

42:28

have a choice. You always have a choice. And

42:32

so what would you like to do? It's

42:35

awesome.

42:37

Man, Shane, we got a bunch of good clips

42:39

from this, this podcast episode right here.

42:41

That last one that Julio just did.

42:44

I'm just going to like,

42:46

yeah.

42:48

Also so Jim, whenever you sat

42:50

here and you said that first phrase, everyone deserves

42:52

loves. I love hearing that.

42:55

I loved hearing that it was, it

42:57

just echoes a lot of the

42:59

greatest minds out there. Whenever they talk about those

43:01

things by greatest minds. I mean, Mark,

43:05

yeah yeah, no,

43:09

no doubt. But all while said, I mean,

43:11

as we're wrapping up are you to

43:13

both both

43:15

active on social media for people to

43:17

go ahead and find you if they want to learn more or connect

43:19

with you.

43:20

Yeah, I'm on Instagram Kaizen

43:23

Guitar Facebook. I do have a Twitter.

43:26

I have, I've been taking a break from Twitter. I think

43:28

I'm there under Jim O'Gara.

43:31

I'm in the Men's ADHD Support Group on Facebook.

43:34

I've been past couple of weeks trying to limit my

43:36

social media time to Get

43:38

more productive stuff. Like I'm

43:40

playing guitar and my sister's wedding. I got like

43:42

songs. I need to learn. I do have a gig

43:44

coming up so Like

43:47

yeah, my cousin, you know, it's like oh you should

43:49

try this video game and i'm like wait

43:51

You know, I have adhd because you have adhd as

43:53

well. I'll get too involved with it And

43:56

i'm playing my guitar It's

43:59

awesome.

44:00

Yeah. I know what that's

44:02

like. It's like the, the ADHD interest

44:04

level is like either completely

44:07

on or like not interested at all. So

44:09

my girlfriend thought it was a good idea

44:11

and I usually don't play video games for that very

44:13

reason because they would consume so much of my life. But

44:16

she thought it was a good idea for me to learn a little bit

44:18

about Fortnite, which I never thought I would

44:20

ever care for or be interested in, but

44:23

I tried it. And like, now I'm like, I have to

44:25

like go a week without it.

44:27

Cause But anyways

44:29

yeah, cool. Thank you for sharing your

44:31

social media Julio, where can people find

44:33

you if they want to connect?

44:35

Not yet. I'm in the process of getting

44:37

there's a lot going on right now with, with what I'm

44:39

doing, so, got that ADHD

44:42

thing, like 20 things to do and got to sort them

44:44

out. So, I mean, if anybody

44:46

wanted to reach me, I'm also on the Men's ADHD Support Group

44:48

Julio Rojas. So somebody,

44:50

send me a message or whatever. Yeah. But, I love

44:53

talking. Definitely in the future.

44:55

I will be out there for the I mean, 14

44:57

years of studying ADHD and personal development.

45:00

I got to do something

45:01

No doubt, no doubt.

45:03

And the voice

45:05

is needed. Definitely the two of you. So it's amazing

45:07

that you two will do this. And,

45:09

thank you everybody for listening. This has been a really

45:12

fun podcast to record, and

45:14

I look forward to talking with everybody soon.