0:11

Hello, and welcome to

0:11

another episode of the men's

0:13

wear style podcast. I'm your

0:13

host, Pete broca. How we're

0:16

doing this episode we're gonna

0:16

be talking to Simon cotton chief

0:20

executive of Johnston's of

0:20

Elgon. Johnston's about Oregon

0:24

has over 200 years of tradition

0:24

and experience in textile

0:28

manufacturing since 1797. The

0:28

company has produced the finest

0:33

woven products from the finest

0:33

of fibres. Over the years, they

0:37

have expanded their business and

0:37

extended the mill, but they've

0:40

also built a community, which

0:40

time and again has proved to be

0:45

their greatest asset. To date,

0:45

they employ 900 people in this

0:50

country alone and Simon has

0:50

graciously taken our time of the

0:54

day to talk about the company

0:54

and how it's dealing with the

0:57

pandemic, along with other

0:57

things. So that interview coming

1:01

up shortly in the meantime, make

1:01

sure you're checking out the

1:03

website menswear style dot coat

1:03

UK, that's where we put all the

1:06

show notes, all the links to

1:06

everything that we talked about

1:09

in the show. Also you have

1:09

lifestyle features, travel

1:11

features, what's going on with

1:11

the brands right now during this

1:14

crazy time, so make sure you're

1:14

checking that out. And if you

1:18

want to get in touch with me

1:18

here at the show, maybe you want

1:20

to be a guest maybe you want to

1:20

come on and talk about your

1:22

brand. It's info at menswear.

1:22

style.co.uk Okay, here is that

1:28

interview with Simon cotton

1:28

chief executive of johnstons.

1:40

It's my great pleasure to

1:40

introduce to the podcast Simon

1:43

cotton chief executive of

1:43

Johnston's of Elgon. How it is

1:47

today, Simon. Very good. Thank

1:49

you. Excellent whereabouts in the world are you? I'm up in Elgon. I'm just five

1:51

minutes away from our mill which

1:55

is closed at the moment. So I'm

1:55

working from home. But I am in a

1:59

beautiful part of the country

1:59

overlooking the barley fields

2:02

and a small Scottish castle. So

2:02

it's not a bad location.

2:05

It sounds since very

2:05

picturesque. And for the people

2:08

that can't obviously see the

2:08

recording. There's a nice sliver

2:10

of sunlight coming in through

2:10

your window and if sitting is a

2:14

glorious day as clearly always

2:14

as a glorious day up here in

2:17

Marion, Scotland. So Simon,

2:17

maybe if you can just give us a

2:23

thumbnail sketch of view. I know

2:23

Johnston's of Elgon has got a

2:26

huge history so I won't ask you

2:26

to kind of go into the entire

2:31

backlog but maybe what you do

2:31

within the company and how the

2:36

company is in its current state. So I'm the chief executive I

2:38

have been for six years. So our

2:44

operation consists of to

2:44

manufacture two major

2:47

manufacturing plants and a

2:47

couple of satellites where we

2:50

make woven products and knitted

2:50

products so we have the woven

2:54

products up in Elgon, the

2:54

knitted products down in hike.

2:57

And we also have our own retail

2:57

our own coffee shops and but the

3:03

majority of our business is

3:03

manufacturing for some of the

3:06

world's top luxury brands. So we

3:06

are we are largest as a private

3:11

label supplier to luxury brands.

3:11

about one third of our business

3:15

is our own brand. I see. And so for the people

3:16

that are uninitiated what luxury

3:21

brands would these be? Well, we don't talk about them.

3:23

They talk about us. But if you

3:26

imagine the the best brands that

3:26

you will see on Bond Street or

3:30

any other world's top shopping

3:30

streets, we're probably

3:33

supplying around about two

3:33

thirds of those

3:36

interesting, amazing and where

3:36

do we source the Kashmir? Is it

3:42

local to Elgon? No Kashmir, Kashmir, you get a

3:45

tiny tiny amount from every

3:49

Kashmir ago. So you get about

3:49

200 grammes on average for

3:52

Kashmir goats. So we need our

3:52

there needs to be a huge grazing

3:58

area for Kashmir. So it is

3:58

generally grown in Mongolia and

4:03

Inner Mongolia region of China,

4:03

a little bit in places like

4:06

Afghanistan as well. And it is a

4:06

vast, vast area that Kashmir

4:11

herding happens over tends to be

4:11

very poor land that's not

4:15

suitable for much else with

4:15

really extreme winters which

4:18

make the fibre the under down

4:18

which is what we want to become

4:23

very, very thin, very fine, very

4:23

soft, and give the animal a lot

4:27

of protection during the winter.

4:27

And it's cold in the springtime.

4:31

So as as the fibre starts to

4:31

float, the animal wants to lose

4:36

that the herders will comb that

4:36

fibre from the animal and it

4:42

will can retain the guard hair.

4:42

So it's a very long traditional

4:47

process has been going for

4:47

hundreds of years within a lot

4:50

of cases traditional nomadic

4:50

herding practices behind it so

4:54

it's not something we could do

4:54

in scale here in Scotland. That

4:58

has been attempted before the

4:58

climate tends to be Believe it

5:00

or not a little bit warm here.

5:00

And actually, you do need those

5:04

extreme temperatures of down to

5:04

minus 30. Or you need very,

5:08

very, very good genetics, there

5:08

are some attempts, or there are

5:11

some really good work being done

5:11

with a small herd in England and

5:15

also one in New Zealand now to

5:15

develop those genetics that you

5:18

could do it even without the

5:18

extreme temperatures.

5:20

That's interesting. And so just

5:20

dial me back a little bit. So

5:24

you've been with the company six

5:24

years, how did you get

5:26

ingratiated into Johnston's

5:26

evolving?

5:30

Yeah, well, I like to tell what

5:30

taught it sorry that it was it

5:33

was a little like getting Willy

5:33

Wonka's golden ticket, because I

5:36

mean, in textile manufacturing

5:36

is kind of a dream job. I'd been

5:41

in textiles for 11 years

5:41

previously, with a company

5:44

called Russell Corporation who

5:44

make Russell athletic and some

5:47

other brands as well. So very

5:47

much at a different end of the

5:50

of the market, much more

5:50

sportswear, promotional wear,

5:53

corporate, where that type of

5:53

thing. So I've done that for 11

5:57

years, I had managed companies

5:57

making kitchen sinks for five

6:01

years. And I've done a lot of

6:01

international work, brand

6:05

development, work marketing,

6:05

product development, that that

6:07

kind of thing. So I had done a

6:07

lot of things that we do in

6:11

Johnson's, but there's no job

6:11

that's really similar to it, to

6:15

be honest, in terms of the the

6:15

variety and the breadth of

6:18

things that you need to you need

6:18

to be able to do.

6:21

Interesting. And so the the term

6:21

chief executive, can you just

6:26

give us a little insight into

6:26

what it is that you do with

6:29

Johnson's amalgam now? Yeah.

6:33

I look after the team who looks

6:33

after the various bits of the

6:37

business. So my top team

6:37

consists of operations directors

6:42

for the two for the two Mills,

6:42

our finance director, our sales

6:46

director, our retail director,

6:46

a, a marketing director, and our

6:53

creative director, so sorry, and

6:53

an HR director, probably the

6:58

most important right at this

6:58

moment. But yes, it's a it's

7:02

it's really about coordinating

7:02

that team, making sure all our

7:05

various operations are going in

7:05

the right direction, and looking

7:09

after the strategic development

7:09

of the business. So I need to

7:13

ask the elephant in the room

7:14

question. How is the pandemic

7:18

affecting Johnston's Elgon now,

7:18

and what's the state of play

7:22

there? Yeah, we closed down operations

7:24

earlier in March. So we had to,

7:30

I should say, That's not a COVID

7:30

related call thing. We closed

7:35

down operations earlier in

7:35

March. So we have been locked

7:39

down in hibernation whatever

7:39

term we want to use, really,

7:43

since. Since the 20th of March,

7:43

we closed retail and the 23rd of

7:50

March, we closed our

7:50

manufacturing operations. So

7:53

we're well into that process.

7:53

Now. out of our 1000 employees

7:58

around about 960 are furloughed,

7:58

and at home at the moment, and

8:02

of the remaining 14 most of

8:02

those are at home as well.

8:05

working from home like myself. I see.

8:09

And I guess it's it's a worrying

8:09

time for everyone. And is there

8:15

any kind of light at the end of

8:15

the tunnel? Is there anything

8:18

that you guys can be doing in

8:18

the meantime, taking stock,

8:21

paying more attention to digital

8:21

campaigns, etc?

8:26

Yeah, I mean, we are big digital

8:26

businesses is doing very well.

8:30

We're still communicating with

8:30

customers, we're still,

8:33

obviously there's certain things

8:33

that we need to do around

8:35

maintenance, etc. But most of

8:35

the operations depend on on

8:39

having manufacturing running. So

8:39

you know, until manufacturing,

8:43

running again, it will be very

8:43

quiet. Doesn't necessarily feel

8:48

very quiet at the moment, because there is a lot of strategic planning going on.

8:49

There's a lot of preparations

8:52

needing to be done for whenever

8:52

the eventual return to work is.

8:56

And we're doing a few bits and

8:56

pieces, like for example, where

9:00

we're now getting into a

9:00

situation where we can make

9:03

samples again, and we can do

9:03

things like that we're doing a

9:06

little bit of scrub manufacturer

9:06

for local NHS, facilities,

9:11

primary care facilities, things

9:11

like that. So there is a there's

9:14

a lot of activity, but it's not

9:14

the normal activity that we

9:17

would do you know, we've not got

9:17

any, we've not got any weaving

9:20

going at the moment. We haven't

9:20

got any knitting going at the

9:22

moment. And yeah, it's a very,

9:22

very different business for the

9:26

time being. Yeah, I know about interesting.

9:27

And talk to me a little bit

9:32

please about the the website and

9:32

also you had the flagships or a

9:36

store in London on Bond Street,

9:36

and how, how is that performing?

9:42

Or, you know, up until this this

9:42

pandemic, how is that going on

9:46

in London for you? Yeah, lung

9:49

has been very good for us. It

9:49

was a it was a step at the time

9:53

because I mean, we best been

9:53

known as a manufacturer and

9:55

we've been developing the brand

9:55

as a real brand, very hard over

10:02

the last five, six years. We

10:02

established Bond Street a few

10:05

years ago. And it was it was

10:05

considered a risk at the time

10:09

buyers. What was really

10:09

gratifying was that people who

10:12

knew or said, Well, why is it

10:12

taking you so long? Because we

10:16

have been, you know, known as

10:16

the the best kept secret in

10:19

British textile manufacturing.

10:19

You know, we've redone the brand

10:23

behind the brands for many, many

10:23

years. And it was really

10:28

gratifying that everybody

10:28

responded to it very well and

10:30

said, Well, actually, you know,

10:30

you guys should be here. So that

10:33

was nice. Yeah. And I guess I mean, before

10:34

that you have concessions, I

10:39

don't know if that's the right

10:39

word in fortnum, Mason, liberty,

10:43

and etc. So it must have been

10:43

something of a leap of faith to

10:47

get some bricks and mortar in

10:47

London under your own name.

10:50

Yes, it's helped. It's helped us

10:50

It helps people understand what

10:55

the whole brand does, because a

10:55

lot of our customers come into

10:58

us on a specific category. So

10:58

actually, it was the first time

11:02

we could showcase everything we

11:02

do, which is everything from

11:05

socks through two jackets

11:05

through two coats through to

11:08

knitwear through to obviously

11:08

what we're probably best known

11:11

for, which is accessories. So it

11:11

was a chance for everybody to

11:16

see that in one place. And that

11:16

was, has been very helpful

11:20

because companies like Harrods

11:20

and Selfridges have been very

11:24

good in terms of developing with

11:24

us and helping us develop into a

11:29

more rounded brand and have

11:29

given us space and given us

11:32

support in London, and I think,

11:32

you know, that has helped with

11:36

that relationship. Yeah, I'm just as we're talking

11:37

nosing around your website for

11:42

the 10th time today. How much

11:42

input do you have on the e

11:46

commerce side? You know, by doing that, you're

11:48

going to throw off all our metrics, we're going to be

11:50

measuring why this person is

11:52

spending so much time on the website. Yeah, where's the funnelling come from

11:53

you and the e commerce side of our

11:57

business and we're very

12:00

fortunate we've got a really

12:00

exceptional team, most of whom

12:04

are based up here in Elgon, and

12:04

it's not the obvious place to

12:07

have a top class ecommerce team,

12:07

but but they've been with us for

12:11

a good length of time. And

12:11

they've, they've got tremendous

12:13

skills. We're seeing great

12:13

growth on that before the

12:18

crisis, actually, we've had an

12:18

extremely good time during the

12:21

crisis, as you can imagine,

12:21

because people can get our

12:24

products from shops, in many

12:24

cases now. But obviously, on

12:28

certain things, you know, we're,

12:28

we're very closely associated as

12:32

a brand with with comfort with

12:32

home with loungewear. And all

12:37

those things are quite pertinent

12:37

at the moment, you know, so if

12:41

you really want us to cocoon

12:41

yourself up in Kashmir, well,

12:45

while the world goes by, we can

12:45

cater for that. We're also very,

12:50

very well used for gifting. And

12:50

a lot of what people have been

12:54

doing is going out and sending,

12:54

you know, a cashmere blanket to

12:58

to a friend who's isolated or a

12:58

pair of cashmere socks. And it's

13:03

been nice to be able to put some

13:03

things in place to support that

13:06

and make it easier and maybe a

13:06

bit more affordable as well.

13:10

Good. I need some friends like

13:10

that. I'm just mentally going

13:14

through my Rolodex of friends

13:14

thinking who's gonna send me a

13:16

cashmere fro no one is, but the

13:16

word cocoon or cosseted in

13:21

cashmanager. Sounds like a

13:21

beautiful way to spend a Sunday

13:24

afternoon. You've got a you've

13:24

got so many great garments on

13:28

the website. I'm wondering do I

13:28

don't know if you know this, but

13:31

is there a certain portfolio

13:31

that gets a lot more attention

13:35

than something else? They like

13:35

the home interiors, versus

13:39

accessories etc. You know, the interesting thing

13:41

is everybody has their own view

13:45

of what we do. And everybody

13:45

tends to come into one area and

13:49

fall in love in that area and

13:49

assume that's all we do. So you

13:53

know, we do have people who, who

13:53

just come in every year and they

13:57

buy their new cashmere scarf,

13:57

and they're very happy with

13:59

that. And really don't look at

13:59

the rest. We've got other people

14:03

who are really loyal to us on

14:03

knitwear. We've got people who

14:07

have their entire homes, kitted

14:07

out with Johnson's throws and

14:10

fabric and rugs and all the rest

14:10

of the stuff, which is which is

14:14

lovely. And it is that I guess

14:14

it is a brand which you you can

14:20

form a relationship with you

14:20

know, I mean, we we're very

14:23

proud of the people that we have

14:23

the craftsmanship, the stories

14:28

that we can tell. And I think

14:28

people connect with that and

14:33

then want to get more into the

14:33

brand and explore more areas

14:37

with them. Yeah. Interesting. And I guess

14:37

with the commerce side naturally

14:43

then comes social media and how

14:43

to leverage that to bring and

14:46

generate traffic to the site. Do

14:46

you indulge yourself with

14:50

influencers at all? Does that

14:50

have any bearing on the

14:53

business? We do? Yeah.

14:55

We've had some great

14:55

interactions with influencers

14:58

and I think influencers are

14:58

generally very keen to be

15:02

associated with with a

15:02

manufacturer, you know, a lot of

15:05

what they are interested in the

15:05

industry is that manufacturing

15:09

process, you know, they like to

15:09

see raw cashmio being turned

15:12

into a finished garment and to

15:12

seal the manufacturing

15:16

processes. So what we try to do

15:16

is bring them up, show them

15:20

around the mill, let them

15:20

experience a little bit of

15:23

memory and hospitality and so

15:23

forth, and try and let them form

15:27

a real relationship. We're not

15:27

so interested in paying somebody

15:31

to wear something or, you know,

15:31

just just trying to associate a

15:36

name we want, we want influences

15:36

who have a genuine and authentic

15:40

interest in what we do. And

15:40

we're quite lucky that many of

15:44

them do that. On the social

15:44

media side, we've got a, we've

15:48

got a brilliant person in house

15:48

who deals with all of that. And

15:53

it really helped because because

15:53

a lot of what we do, post about

15:57

and talk about is what's going

15:57

on in the mill, you know, it's

16:00

it's real stories, it's really

16:00

important that that is somebody

16:03

in house that they can they can

16:03

glean all that information and

16:07

understand what's going on. It's not something we could do outside.

16:09

Yeah. Interesting. And I'm just

16:09

also curious does because of the

16:15

the history of johnstons of

16:15

Elgin, do you have a royal

16:17

warrant at all? We do we have the Royal warrant

16:19

for estate tweets from Prince

16:25

Charles called it's called a Jew

16:25

kharrazian in Scotland. Yeah,

16:30

and I'm curious about royal

16:30

warrants, because it came up in

16:33

a conversation earlier with a

16:33

friend. What, what kind of

16:36

cachet does that give a

16:36

business? if any?

16:39

No, it's a great Association. I

16:39

mean, obviously, um, it's an

16:44

eclectic group of brands that go

16:44

in there, but they're all ones

16:46

who've been selected by the

16:46

royal family, as as you know,

16:50

the best of the best. So it's

16:50

something we're, we're very

16:53

proud to be associated with is

16:53

something that is increasingly

16:59

recognised, I think it has taken

16:59

on even more prominence as

17:02

people try and cut their way

17:02

through the sways of brands who

17:06

are who are making claims you

17:06

are, you know, you're trying to

17:09

put on a story. And the market

17:09

is crowded, I mean, there's

17:13

there's so many brands out there

17:13

that having something which

17:16

really signifies that you are

17:16

recognised by somebody

17:22

independent and you can get much

17:22

more independent than the royal

17:24

family is, is very nice. And it

17:24

does work particularly in Asian

17:29

markets. Also in the American

17:29

market,

17:32

it's very helpful. And who would

17:32

you say is the biggest

17:36

demographic outside of the UK

17:36

for you.

17:40

Also the UK our biggest market

17:40

is Japan. In Japan, we are very

17:44

much associated with the Kashmir

17:44

store. And and Japanese ladies

17:49

love to wrap themselves up in in

17:49

Johnson and Kashmir tartan

17:53

store, a very traditional

17:53

product for us. But one that,

17:56

you know, is it's a very, very

17:56

luxurious item. And we we have

18:01

sold an awful lot of them into

18:01

the Japanese market. And we are

18:05

very, very appreciative of that

18:05

custom. It's become quite an

18:09

iconic product, you know, so the

18:09

every every year, the well to do

18:15

Japanese ladies will will go out

18:15

and select the next product the

18:20

next design for the season which

18:20

is which is very, very

18:24

gratifying for us. And it's

18:24

almost the mark of the seasons

18:28

when you start seeing the

18:28

Kashmir stores coming out in

18:30

Japan it says as iconic as the

18:30

cherry blossoms in the spring.

18:33

Oh, that's so sweet. God bless.

18:33

That's really nice. I have a

18:39

question. It's probably going

18:39

off the grass a bit. But have

18:41

you ever entertained the idea of

18:41

or have you ever done as a brand

18:44

suits and suiting I know you do

18:44

the jackets, the shirts and

18:47

coats, but have you ever done suits. We did a little bit of it. We

18:50

decided it really wasn't suiting

18:55

as we are a much more casual,

18:55

relaxed brand. That's what our

18:59

fibres suit. Our yarn production

18:59

is a woollen yarn manufacturing

19:05

process. So we do have a product

19:05

that we make in house is

19:10

naturally a more and more

19:10

fibrous, more More, more fluffy

19:16

yarn, then you would you would

19:16

use for suits. So it's not a

19:19

native product to us, we would

19:19

use somebody else's yarn for

19:22

that. And also we started to

19:22

enter at the time when really

19:26

the move towards casualization

19:26

was was taking off. And of

19:29

course there's brilliant British

19:29

suiting brands and brilliant

19:34

brilliant Italian suiting

19:34

brands. But there is less and

19:37

less demand out there as people

19:37

go more casual in the workplace.

19:41

So it was kind of the wrong time

19:41

to be going in that direction.

19:44

So we're really retrenched

19:44

around, you know, gorgeous

19:48

knitwear. Very comfortable

19:48

clothing, relaxed jackets,

19:51

relaxed fit trousers, you know,

19:51

a much more casual or smart

19:56

casual look interesting well Listen, Simon,

19:58

thanks for taking time out of

20:01

your day to walk me through the

20:01

brand and the various facets and

20:04

the various sections of

20:04

Johnston's of Elgon. I find it

20:09

fascinating I find the website

20:09

beautiful the products look

20:13

immense and I'm actually

20:13

hovering over the the the book

20:17

section as well as we speak. So

20:17

again, it's gonna screw with

20:20

your statistics a little bit of

20:20

where this is coming from, but

20:23

the analysts are gonna go crazy. I do like the fabrics of

20:25

Scotland's got a foreword by Her

20:28

Royal Highness. I'm all over

20:28

that.

20:30

I'm getting involved. We all

20:30

have to send you a copy.

20:35

That'd be great. tangentially

20:35

Simon.

20:37

I have to end this question because I

20:38

wrote it down at the top before

20:40

any other questions as a proud

20:40

Scot is your favourite film

20:44

Highlander or Braveheart? Haha.

20:50

I'm not sure how much real

20:50

Scottishness is in either the

20:55

grey part. Yeah, good choice. All right,

20:56

brilliant. Well, Simon, thanks

20:59

again for your time. Bye for a lot.

21:01

Take care. Bye. Take me away. Simon cotton, they're given the

21:05

agony of choice Highlander.

21:08

abreva. Which would you go? Anyway,

21:11

that's it from me. Thank you,

21:11

Simon for coming onto the show.

21:14

Thank you for listening for

21:14

sharing writing those lovely

21:18

reviews on iTunes. It means a

21:18

lot to us. In the meantime, stay

21:22

safe and remember, it's only

21:22

fashion people and you're never

21:25

fully dressed without a smile.