0:01

And there you sit at the elder meeting. And

0:04

again, some disagreement emerges.

0:07

So maybe you disagree about a potential elder

0:09

candidate. He's

0:12

a good friend of one of the brothers at

0:14

the table, but to you, he doesn't seem, ah,

0:16

what's the word, sober-minded.

0:21

You don't think he'll add to the team,

0:23

but he might detract from the team. He

0:25

might be more of a liability than

0:28

a blessing. Or perhaps you disagree

0:30

about a troubled marriage. One

0:32

pastor thinks that the

0:34

wife is mature and has

0:37

been long-suffering with her husband, who's largely to

0:39

blame. Another pastor

0:41

thinks the wife has come to imbibe

0:43

an unbelieving perspective and

0:45

is angling to be free from her marriage vows. Or

0:48

perhaps it's a doctrinal or

0:51

exegetical disagreement. Let's

0:53

just say female deacons. You're

0:57

on a council of eight. It's

1:00

totally made up. The other seven brothers have

1:02

expressed openness to

1:05

female deacons. And you're the one that

1:07

just doesn't see it in 1 Timothy 3. You

1:11

think the gunaikos there is deacon wives, not

1:14

deacon women. Or

1:18

you disagree about

1:20

priorities. How often should we inform the church about

1:23

the latest pro-life legislative disaster

1:28

in our state? How often do

1:30

we call our people to pray? How often do we ask them to make some kind

1:33

of action? Or

1:36

maybe it just seems like the same brother all

1:39

the time. Clearly,

1:42

the algorithms have the two of you on

1:46

very different feeds. You don't always feel this

1:48

tension. This wasn't always the

1:50

case. But then came lockdowns and the

1:52

masks and the vaccines and

1:56

the social unrest. We're living in two

1:58

different digital worlds. because

2:01

you were. Whatever

2:03

the causes, you were pulled into

2:05

very different ecosystems with

2:08

subtleties of thought and instinct. And you

2:10

wonder how much this was beneath the

2:13

surface all along, but

2:15

you suspect much of

2:17

it has been newly conditioned by these

2:19

devices that we carry around. Our

2:24

focus in this session is

2:26

on seeking unity among the

2:28

pastor-elders in particular. That

2:30

is unity in the lead or teaching

2:32

office of the church, variously

2:35

called pastor or elder or overseer in

2:37

the New Testament. Three names

2:39

for one essential office. That's the

2:41

lead office, the teaching office, with

2:44

Deacon being the assisting office. And

2:47

our task in this session is to

2:49

talk about handling disagreements among

2:52

the pastor-elders. So

2:54

first, I'd like to make

2:56

some preliminary assumptions

2:59

explicit. This is very important. It

3:01

might be the most important part for me. And

3:04

then give some practical advice for those who

3:06

find themselves in the midst of some disagreement

3:10

and have some reasons for hope. So,

3:13

preliminary assumptions first. Now,

3:15

a preliminary word about

3:18

the preliminary assumptions. I

3:21

think this is the most important part. Many

3:25

of the most important factors

3:27

related to disagreements among pastors

3:29

begin long before the specific

3:31

disagreements emerge. So

3:35

I will try to speak for working

3:39

for unity amidst disagreement in the

3:41

council. But I think

3:44

the best working for unity happens

3:46

long before you have disagreements on

3:48

your hands. So

3:51

here's some assumptions, preliminary assumptions. Number one,

3:53

church leadership is

3:56

teamwork. In

3:59

a sense, our topic. assumes it.

4:01

I think you should make it explicit.

4:03

Even in rural settings where the idea

4:05

of a team of pastors may

4:07

seem unrealistic, we still got this

4:09

stubborn ideal of plurality in the

4:12

New Testament. Twice Peter

4:14

addresses plural elders, 1 Peter

4:16

5. Local church elders are plural

4:19

in Acts, so too in the pastoral

4:21

epistles as in James 5 14.

4:23

In fact every instance of local church

4:26

leadership in the New Testament implies plurality.

4:29

If I could give you a four-part

4:32

summary of New

4:35

Testament church leadership, I

4:39

would have team at the

4:41

very heart of it. Here's my little summary. Local

4:45

teams of sober-minded

4:47

teachers. Might

4:50

be the foremost important things, trying to

4:52

put it into one. I put teams

4:54

right at the middle. So there's locality,

4:56

that there's a local church. These are

4:59

real flesh and blood relationships. There's an

5:01

acuity, that's sober-mindedness,

5:03

that's ability to make tough

5:05

decisions, navigate the church's difficulties,

5:08

sober-mindedness. And then there's, I

5:11

like to claim this word, didacity on

5:14

Greek deducticos. Able to teach,

5:17

equipped to teach, inclined to teach, the

5:20

pastors are teachers, they love to teach.

5:23

You can't get these guys to stop teaching

5:25

even if you put a gun to their

5:27

head. And then last, plurality, that they do

5:29

it as a team. But here's

5:32

what I want to say, most

5:34

significantly under this first assumption, not

5:37

only plurality. The

5:40

hope is not just that pastor-elder

5:42

teams would be plural, but

5:45

that pastor-elders would like each

5:47

other and enjoy

5:49

each other. That they would

5:51

be friends and not rivals.

5:54

Maybe team of rivals worked for Lincoln,

5:58

but you're not Lincoln. And

6:01

your church is not the Lincoln Cabinet

6:03

or the Lincoln Administration. My

6:07

experience has been that friendship, love,

6:09

genuine affection among elders is not

6:12

icing on the cake of good

6:14

elders. It's in the cake. Our

6:18

churches do not only want and

6:20

need good men as the Council

6:22

of Pastors, but good men who

6:24

are good friends with each

6:26

other and work well as a team and enjoy it.

6:30

How good and pleasant

6:33

it is when brothers

6:35

dwell together in unity. And

6:39

that's not just put up with each

6:41

other, but actually enjoy each other. Look

6:43

forward to being together rather

6:46

than dreading the gathering. Whether

6:49

the pastor elders enjoy their fellowship will

6:51

soon affect the church and

6:54

it will profoundly affect how we work

6:56

for unity in the midst of disagreements

6:58

that will inevitably come. In

7:01

fact, related to working

7:03

for unity, my counsel would

7:05

be this, the fellow pastors, always

7:09

be working for unity

7:11

through friendship, through investing

7:13

in team dynamics long before

7:15

the disagreements arise. Work

7:18

for unity ahead of time and

7:21

seek to have such settled, stable

7:23

unity that when disagreements do arise,

7:25

your unity isn't soon called into

7:28

question. Then

7:30

you can give your focus to actually

7:32

working through the issue rather than working

7:35

prematurely for unity. The

7:37

relationships are thick enough to handle it. And

7:40

get this, when the relationships

7:43

are strong and enjoyable

7:45

among the elders, you're not

7:47

so nervous about conflict

7:49

and avoiding certain issues. Rather,

7:52

you are free to mind

7:54

for conflict. The kind

7:56

of language you love using in our church. We

7:58

love to mind for conflict. I'm

8:01

going to try to create conflict. You

8:04

ask about it, you talk about it long

8:06

before it becomes the elephant in the room.

8:08

It's a good thing. You

8:10

read the frustrated look on a brother's brow and

8:13

you're not afraid to ask about it. You

8:16

have enough relational context to say, hey, what's that? What

8:19

was that? What are you thinking? Let's hear about it.

8:22

It's no big threat. Let's find out what it is. Surface

8:25

the potential disagreements early rather

8:27

than avoid them and let them fester and

8:29

explode later on. Church

8:32

leadership is teamwork and

8:34

it is best done by friends, not

8:37

rivals and not those apathetic

8:39

of each other. Number two, assumption. Good

8:42

teams guard the gate. That

8:46

is, they're careful who they add to the

8:48

team. They don't rush the process.

8:52

We got a verse on this, right? Do not

8:54

be hasty in the laying on of hands. First

8:57

Timothy 5.22. This

8:59

is not just recent wisdom stuff. So

9:02

we ask all sorts of questions up front. Ask

9:04

about theology and

9:07

not just theology and the pristine,

9:09

but ask about theological hobby horses.

9:12

What do you like to emphasize? If

9:14

you had audience with hundreds or thousands of evangelicals

9:16

and you could talk on any subject you wanted

9:18

to, what do you want to talk about? What's

9:20

your hobby horse? What's your thing? Work

9:23

carefully through the elder qualifications.

9:25

Take them seriously. They

9:28

are amazingly relevant 2000 years later. Ask

9:31

each other, do we think this

9:34

man fits with the shared instincts

9:37

of our team? Will he be

9:39

a good teammate? Does

9:41

he seem to have our chemistry? How

9:45

will he affect the team's chemistry?

9:48

Remember, not a team of rivals. There

9:51

are plenty of issues in life and ministry

9:53

to disagree about. In big

9:55

degrees and small degrees, inevitably

9:58

some differing. instincts already reside

10:00

on your team. There

10:04

they are. And they

10:06

will come to light. After

10:08

a while together, you'll be able to plot on

10:12

a line who's the most knee-jerk conservative,

10:15

who's the most compassionate, who's most hopeful

10:17

about the world and about culture. And

10:20

those differences of instinct

10:23

make a team healthy and effective, and

10:25

those differences will emerge soon enough. They're

10:27

already there. People are different. Don't

10:32

try to staff for difference.

10:35

Difference will be there and

10:37

will arise. Staff for chemistry.

10:40

Try to build a team of friends

10:42

who like each other and have significant

10:44

shared instincts and genuinely want to spend

10:47

time together and so come to enjoy

10:49

the often burdensome work of teaching and

10:51

caring well for the church together. One

10:56

thing about guarding the gate is to be

11:00

clear about what you have in

11:02

writing. What do

11:04

you expect of the elders in writing? What's

11:06

already in writing? What's expected of the elders

11:08

in writing? Do you have anything beyond Scripture

11:11

that your elder team commits to? Do

11:14

the leaders subscribe to any confession beyond

11:16

the membership covenant? Is

11:18

there a pastor's covenant? Are

11:20

there any agreed-upon documents on ministry

11:22

philosophy? I encourage

11:25

you to have something but not

11:28

a lot. There's a Baptist instinct

11:30

coming out. I don't want a big book of church

11:33

order pull off the shelf. So give me something

11:36

in writing, something we can all know and

11:38

work through, but not too much. For

11:42

our church, what we have

11:44

in addition to Scripture and our

11:47

membership covenant and membership affirmation, we

11:49

have a leadership affirmation that is

11:51

the same as Bethlehem College and Seminary and

11:54

we have a very central list of essentials

11:57

and this is very simple. The church knows

11:59

about it. in the membership class, the

12:01

church knows about it. We worship Jesus, we serve

12:03

one another, we seek the good of the cities,

12:05

but we wanna be clear up front what we

12:07

got in writing that rallies our elders together. Third

12:10

assumption, unity

12:12

does not require unanimity.

12:16

I've heard of elder boards who

12:18

insist on unanimity in

12:20

their decisions. I

12:22

don't think that's necessary, and

12:25

sometimes I don't think it's good. We

12:28

need to be wise and

12:30

patient regarding particular situations. Is

12:33

this a situation that needs unanimity, or

12:36

is this a normal situation? Isn't

12:38

this okay for a brother to disagree? If

12:41

it's a huge initiative of the

12:43

church, say like a capital

12:45

campaign, you may wanna

12:48

give the extra time and the extra work to

12:50

press for unanimity, or very close to it,

12:52

and not just a mere consensus. And

12:56

in major decisions like that, don't

12:58

rush the process. And

13:01

for lead pastors, don't

13:04

bring a fully formulated document. Take

13:07

the initiative, bring some

13:09

ideas, get the team going in

13:12

a certain direction, let

13:14

there be space for the ideas to

13:16

settle, for people that contribute their own

13:18

thoughts and give input and have feedback,

13:20

and for the process to develop so

13:22

there's ownership among the team. Mine

13:26

for hesitations and conflict, seek

13:29

to refine the proposal, major

13:31

initiatives, do your best to rally the team together.

13:34

But on other items, it's

13:37

just simply not worth all the work to

13:40

get to unanimity. It's

13:43

not necessary. One or two

13:45

guys have a different opinion, but

13:47

you have a clear consensus on the team and the

13:49

decision needs to be made tonight, and

13:51

so move forward with

13:53

it. It's gonna go forward. So

13:56

that's one disclaimer on the idea of working

13:58

for unity. that many

14:01

things, if not most,

14:03

don't necessitate unanimity. Here's

14:05

another disclaimer on this working for

14:07

unity topic. True

14:12

Christian unity is not

14:14

something that we first produce, and

14:17

definitely not produced in a moment, but

14:19

is a grace we receive and

14:22

then maintain and protect even as we

14:24

grow it and deepen in it. I

14:27

got Ephesians 4 in mind here. Two mentions of

14:29

unity in Ephesians 4. Two

14:31

texts, verses 1 to 3. Actually

14:34

Ephesians 4, 1 to 3. I mean,

14:36

all three verses, just grab all three

14:38

verses, go to all three verses, any

14:41

conflict. These are good virtues, good manifestations

14:43

of the spirit to have. Walk

14:45

in a manner worthy of the calling to which you have been

14:47

called, with all humility

14:51

and gentleness, with

14:53

patience. Here's answers to the

14:55

questions of how to work for unity

14:58

in disagreement. Bearing with one another in

15:00

love, and here it is, verse 3,

15:03

eager to maintain, to

15:05

not freshly establish on your initiative, but

15:08

maintain the unity of the spirit in

15:10

the bond of peace. So in Christ,

15:13

we don't first produce our

15:16

unity. The

15:18

spirit gives it. Once

15:21

we are in Christ, we have

15:23

in common with others who are

15:25

in Christ, the most important realities

15:27

in the universe. Unity

15:31

then, in a very important sense,

15:33

is something that we seek to maintain. However,

15:37

you got another verse in Ephesians

15:39

4, right? There

15:42

is a sense in which unity is

15:44

attained. This is

15:46

verses 12 and 13. Your

15:48

verse, pastor verse here. Pastors equip

15:50

the saints for the work of

15:52

ministry for building up the body

15:54

of Christ until we all attain

15:56

to the unity of the faith

15:59

and of the knowledge. of the Son of

16:01

God to mature manhood. So the Spirit

16:03

gives it, and we attain

16:06

it, even as

16:08

we pastors lead the church in attaining

16:10

that unity of full maturity for our

16:13

wise leading and teaching. Another

16:16

great place for unity in terms

16:18

of biblical backdrop to our topic

16:20

is Philippians. And

16:22

Paul's writing to a church with

16:24

some newly emerging unity

16:27

issues. He says

16:29

he wants them to be of

16:31

the same mind, which

16:33

I don't take to mean that they believe

16:35

all the same things exactly, have

16:38

the same mind, the same

16:40

frame, the same perspective, have

16:42

the same love, be in full accord, and

16:45

of one mind. And he

16:47

hopes to hear from them that they're standing

16:49

firm in one spirit with one mind, striving

16:51

side by side for the faith of the

16:53

gospel. How's

16:56

it going to happen, Paul? Any

16:58

indications of how this unity might

17:00

happen, how it might

17:03

be attained in Philippi? And

17:06

he gives us, which may be

17:08

the single most important text for

17:10

pursuing unity. This is Philippians

17:12

2, 3 to 4. Do

17:15

nothing from selfish ambition or

17:18

conceit, but in

17:20

humility, count others more significant

17:22

than yourselves. Let

17:24

each of you look not to his

17:26

own interests, but also to

17:28

the interests of others. So

17:33

unity does not require unanimity

17:36

with those two disclaimers about working for unity.

17:39

Fourth, then, different kinds

17:41

of disagreement lead to

17:43

different courses of action. I

17:47

know this is obvious, but let me set

17:49

up three categories before working through

17:51

the practical counsel related to the third.

17:54

So I want to make clear that there

17:57

are different kinds of disagreements, and yet

17:59

we're going to linger. over the third

18:01

kind of disagreements for this session. First,

18:05

some disagreements on

18:08

small or silly matters are

18:10

overlooked by wise, peaceable,

18:14

magnanimous men. It's

18:16

very important in our day. Some

18:19

disagreements are small and silly

18:22

and overlooked by those

18:24

who are mature. In

18:27

2 Timothy 2, Paul gives Timothy

18:29

some of the most pointed words

18:31

in Scripture about how to deal

18:33

with conflict. And the

18:35

first thing he says, before he gets to the pointed words,

18:37

I'll do those in a minute, he says in 2 Timothy

18:39

2, verse 23, have

18:43

nothing to do with foolish,

18:46

ignorant controversies. You

18:48

know that they breed quarrels. And

18:53

in 1 Timothy 6, 4, he warns

18:55

about, quote, an unhealthy

18:57

craving for controversy and for

19:00

quarrels about words which produce

19:02

envy, dissension, slander, evil

19:04

suspicions, and constant friction among people

19:07

who are depraved in mind and

19:09

deprived of the truth. Brothers,

19:14

we have an elder qualification called

19:17

not quarrelsome. And

19:21

it's long been a live issue.

19:23

Apparently it was for Paul. But

19:27

in recent years, online life

19:29

has thrown gas on the

19:31

fire of our

19:33

native quarrelsomeness. Brothers,

19:38

you don't always have to have an opinion on

19:41

every topic. And

19:43

all the more, you don't always have

19:46

to express your opinion. And

19:48

you don't have to express it in public.

19:52

This gets me going as an editor. I'm

19:56

all my old jobs about deciding what should be

19:58

public and what should not be public. It

20:02

is a particular temptation for guys

20:04

like us who are word men.

20:07

Pastors are word men. Sometimes

20:10

words come too easy for us. Gotta

20:13

learn to put a guard over that thing. Don't

20:17

let foolish, distant, impractical

20:20

quarrels divide your pastoral

20:22

team, your local team,

20:26

and ruin your trust with

20:28

your own people besides. Second,

20:32

some disagreements are

20:34

on clearly defined matters like

20:37

doctrine or an

20:39

expressed philosophy of ministry. Acts

20:43

chapter 20, verses 29 and 30, Paul

20:45

warns the Ephesian elders that

20:48

wolves will rise up from among

20:50

their own team. That's

20:53

what he says in Acts 20. I

20:55

know that after my departure fierce

20:57

wolves will come

20:59

in among you, not sparing

21:01

the flock, and from among

21:03

your own selves will arise men

21:06

speaking twisted things to draw away

21:08

the disciples after them. That

21:11

is horrible. I hope

21:13

it never happens to you. If

21:15

it does, it will require special

21:19

wisdom and a portion of

21:21

the spirit that I don't mean to

21:23

deal with at length in this session. It

21:29

is the elders who are to deal with such things. God

21:31

made the souls of men in particular

21:34

to rise to the unpleasant

21:36

and essential work of protecting

21:39

the flock from wolves with

21:41

its physical and emotional costs.

21:45

This is what men are for. If

21:48

there's no fight, you might

21:50

just co-ed your counsel. But

21:52

if you're going to protect something, you're

21:54

going to need the souls of men for that. When

22:00

there is false teaching and

22:03

there's this necessity of pastors protecting

22:05

the sheep from wolves, then

22:07

we see the plainest reason that the pastorate

22:10

is for men. God

22:13

made men's souls to be conditioned

22:16

for this calling. And of course, the

22:19

worst of this is when

22:21

such errors arise from within the

22:24

pastors' team itself. May

22:26

God preserve us from that. Brian

22:29

Tab recently wrote in

22:32

an essay for Thamelios, academic

22:34

journal at the Gospel Coalition, on

22:37

the topic of disagreements in ministry.

22:39

Great article. I would commend it.

22:41

He majors on the Paul and

22:44

Barnabas Rift, which we'll linger

22:46

on here for a few minutes later. Let

22:48

me read what Brian says here about ministry

22:53

disagreements that necessitate separation because

22:55

they're doctrinal nature. He says,

22:57

Christian workers are sometimes morally

23:00

obligated to separate when matters

23:02

of essential biblical doctrine and

23:04

practice are at stake. Some

23:08

separations and divisions between professing

23:10

believers are necessary to distinguish

23:12

true faith and morality

23:14

from counterfeit Christianity. For

23:16

example, Paul exhorts, do

23:19

not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. And

23:22

he explains that there must, necessity,

23:25

there must be factions among you in

23:27

order that those who are genuine among

23:29

you may be recognized. Scary

23:32

thought. Likewise,

23:34

John asserts, they went out from

23:36

us, but they were not of us.

23:39

And he warns against partnering with or

23:41

receiving any teacher who does not abide

23:43

in the teaching of Christ, for whoever

23:46

greets him takes part in his wicked

23:48

words. Still reading from tab here.

23:51

It takes biblical wisdom, humility,

23:53

and courage to practice theological

23:55

triage and discern between those hills

23:57

that are worth dying on, on the line. on the

23:59

one hand, and matters

24:02

where fellow believers may agree to

24:04

disagree on the other. This

24:07

is where it helps to have some other things

24:09

in writing, but not too many things. And

24:12

even when you find yourself in such a conflict, now we

24:14

get to the rest of Paul's counsel in

24:16

2 Timothy 2. It is 2 Timothy 2, verses 24-25. Maybe it's definitely

24:18

one of the most important passages

24:25

on conflict. The

24:28

Lord's servant, Paul says, must

24:30

not be quarrelsome. This

24:32

is, we're talking about fierce wolves among

24:34

the elders. This still relates.

24:38

Even for that. Nothing

24:40

about, oh yeah, if the elders are wrong

24:42

in their doctrine, you can sin against them.

24:45

No, Paul doesn't say that. Here's how you treat them. The

24:48

Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome,

24:51

but kind to everyone. Able

24:54

to teach. Patiently enduring

24:58

evil. Correcting

25:01

his opponents with

25:03

gentleness. 2

25:05

Timothy 2. Alright, third. And now here's the one we're going to

25:07

linger over the rest of the time. Third,

25:11

some of the most difficult

25:14

are the gray area disagreements.

25:18

These are the issues that matter, but

25:21

they are not easily settled by

25:23

text of Scripture or the shared

25:25

statements of faith. And

25:28

one classic example is Paul and Barnabas,

25:30

and their disagreement over John Mark. And

25:33

they're separating over the difference in assessment.

25:35

So let me read Acts 15, verse

25:37

36 and following. And

25:40

that will lead us here soon into the

25:43

practical counsel to finish out. Acts

25:46

15. After some days,

25:48

Paul said to Barnabas, let us

25:50

return and visit the brothers in every city where we have

25:53

proclaimed the word of the Lord and see how they are. So they

25:57

agreed on the same page here. Paul is excited. Barnabas

26:00

is excited, let's go do this, great idea.

26:03

Now, Barnabas wanted to take with

26:05

them John, called Mark, and

26:08

Paul thought best. He

26:11

thought it worthy. He

26:13

thought it best not to take with them

26:15

one who had withdrawn from them in Pamphylia

26:19

and had not gone with them to the work.

26:23

And there arose a sharp

26:25

disagreement, a provocation,

26:30

a sharp disagreement so that

26:32

they separated from each other.

26:35

It's so amazing how Paul and Barnabas are

26:37

separating. Barnabas

26:39

took Mark with him and sailed away

26:41

to Cyprus, and

26:43

Paul chose Silas and departed,

26:46

having been commended by the brothers to the grace

26:48

of the Lord. And he went

26:50

through Syria and Cilicia, strengthening

26:52

the churches. It

26:55

ends well. In another

26:57

Sommelios essay, you can tell what I like to

26:59

read sometimes, Don

27:01

Carson, my favorite to read,

27:05

refers to differences in vision

27:07

and priorities in this gray

27:09

area category. Differences

27:12

in vision and

27:14

priorities. Is

27:16

it a case of a Barnabas

27:18

and Paul unable to reach an

27:20

amicable agreement on a pastoral issue

27:24

where both sides feel strongly and

27:26

can marshal compelling

27:29

arguments? Yes,

27:31

we're dealing with here in this gray

27:33

area disagreement among fellow leaders. Again,

27:37

pastor elders are to be men

27:39

who are not quarrelsome. But,

27:42

what's the positive? You

27:44

might say peaceable. Or

27:47

peacemakers. And

27:49

peacemaking, mark this, peacemaking is

27:51

very different than conflict aversion.

27:56

To be a peacemaker, one must be willing

27:58

to engage in conflict. in and

28:01

endure the conflict and do so

28:03

with Christian speech and actions, not

28:06

as an end, rather aiming

28:08

for restoration and peace on the

28:10

far side of the conflict.

28:13

Peace making is hard work. Conflict

28:17

diversion is spineless. That

28:20

leads to our practical counsel after

28:23

all those preliminary assumptions.

28:26

So if you're in a conflict right now, I mean this is

28:28

what you wanted. Sorry that I

28:30

said that the main thing is what you

28:32

do way before the conflict, but there are

28:34

some things we can say about the disagreement.

28:36

When you realize there's a disagreement going on

28:38

right now, I'm in it. I can't go

28:40

back three years and build a different team.

28:42

I'm in a disagreement right now with some

28:44

practical counsel. So what

28:46

more might we say about these Paul and Barnumas

28:49

type disagreements? These

28:52

are not disagreements here on

28:55

clearly defined matters or

28:57

disagreements on trivia or

28:59

foolish quarrels incited by the internet.

29:01

But we're talking about

29:04

real life gray area disagreements between

29:06

brothers on the same pastor elder

29:08

team. And this counsel

29:10

is limited by my

29:12

limited perspective of 15 years

29:16

as an elder. When

29:18

the situation arises, when

29:20

that disagreement emerges among your

29:22

team and it feels

29:24

significant enough that it draws attention to

29:26

the fact that it's a disagreement, what

29:29

do you do? Here's some counsels. Number

29:31

one, rehearse what

29:34

you share in common. Hopefully

29:37

you've been working for unity ahead of

29:39

time, fostering relationships with

29:42

each other, cultivating affection for each

29:44

other, keeping short accounts,

29:46

mining for conflicts, rather

29:48

than letting it fester and go underground till

29:50

it erupts through the surface. Remember

29:53

what you share in common is

29:56

redeemed sinners, indwelled

29:58

by the spirit, caring for the world. for the

30:00

good of this church in which you're partnered. Consider

30:03

how much doctrine and how

30:05

much philosophy you share, number

30:08

one. Number two, query

30:10

the disagreement in three

30:13

dimensions. Got

30:15

any John Frame, try perspectival

30:17

levers here. We're gonna query

30:19

the disagreement in three perspectives.

30:23

Number one, query your own soul. Second,

30:28

query God's word on the

30:30

subject. Third, seek the counsel

30:33

of others. When

30:35

trying to discern what controversies

30:38

to avoid and

30:40

which conflicts to engage with with courage,

30:43

you might wanna query your own soul

30:45

like this. Here's some self-evaluation questions. Just

30:47

examples, but you don't need to write

30:50

them down. Some examples of the kind

30:52

of questions you may ask yourself when

30:54

you sense a disagreement emerging. You

30:56

may say, is this about me,

30:59

my ego, more preference, more threat and

31:02

delusion of control? Or is this

31:04

relevant to Jesus, to his gospel, to

31:07

the good of the church? Am

31:10

I remembering that my greatest potential

31:12

enemy here is not others and

31:14

not even Satan, but

31:16

my own indwelling sin, first

31:19

and foremost? You might

31:21

also ask, what's the tenor of my

31:23

ministry? Is it one

31:25

fight after another? Are

31:28

there any seasons of peace? Am

31:31

I engaging in conflict as an end

31:33

in itself? Or is

31:36

it preserving and securing peace

31:38

as the goal? Another

31:41

question, am I going

31:43

with or against my flesh when

31:46

it inclines me to fight when I

31:48

shouldn't and back down when I should

31:50

kindly, patiently, gently fight? As

31:54

the servant of the Lord, not the servant

31:56

of self, am I

31:58

avoiding petty causes? that

32:01

an unholy part of me wants to pursue, while

32:03

taking on the difficult, painful, righteous

32:05

causes that the unholy part of

32:07

me wants to flee. Or

32:12

you might ask, am I simply angry

32:14

at my opponents, desiring

32:16

to show them up or expose them,

32:20

or am I sad for

32:22

them? Better, am

32:24

I compassionate for them? Can

32:27

I genuinely pray for them that God would

32:29

free them from deception, if

32:31

that's the case, and grant

32:33

them repentance, if that's what's needed? Am

32:36

I more inclined to anger against this

32:39

seeming opponent or tears for

32:41

him, or love for him or them?

32:45

Also, in the midst of a conflict,

32:47

you might want to revisit the elder

32:49

qualifications. Just get a fresh

32:52

sense how you're engaging in this

32:54

disagreement, what shows itself, what comes

32:56

to the surface, is, oh, I need

32:59

prayer on that one. That's a challenge

33:01

for me right now. This disagreement has

33:03

ushered in a new season in my

33:05

life, in which

33:07

this is a potential weak spot for

33:09

Satan. Find

33:12

a brother that would help you with

33:14

that elder qualification that's come to light

33:16

in a fresh way because of the

33:18

brewing conflict. Number

33:20

three, carefully

33:22

ask others for perspective and

33:24

counsel. I

33:27

say carefully, meaning

33:29

not to violate confidentiality and

33:31

not to try to rally

33:33

support. You

33:36

are asking, make this clear when you talk to somebody, you're

33:38

asking for counsel for you. This

33:41

is for me. I'm not asking you

33:43

to be a judge. I'm not asking you to declare

33:45

who's in the right or who's in the wrong. You're

33:48

talking to me. You're not talking to that other brother or

33:50

the other guys. You're talking to me. Give

33:52

me counsel. Help me. Challenge me.

33:55

Exhort me in this situation. However

33:57

much you think I'm right or whatever. Help

33:59

me be a... solution here, not one who

34:01

makes the problem worse on

34:03

this gray area issue. Number

34:06

four, look for objective cues

34:09

and clarity to go on.

34:13

Sometimes we're just in the sea of subjectivity in

34:16

these disagreements, suspecting

34:19

heart motives. Give

34:21

me something objective to go on. For

34:25

us as humans, good decisions are

34:28

not ex nihilo, but

34:30

they are subcreation. It's like Tolkien. Good

34:33

decisions are subcreation with various

34:35

givens. Find out what are

34:38

the givens. What are

34:40

the objective givens that you need to

34:42

rehearse to make wise decisions instead of

34:44

going on some subjective things? You

34:47

need objective grist to work with.

34:51

Perhaps the confusion and disagreement

34:53

stems from some unawareness or

34:56

lack thereof of objective

34:58

givens related to the situation.

35:01

If you listen a little bit more, you might pick

35:03

up on something, oh, that's important. That's

35:05

got to be on the table if you think about how to navigate this.

35:09

Rehearse what you know for sure and

35:12

is not speculation. One

35:15

way to move toward agreement is

35:17

to get more or simply get

35:19

a clear given on the

35:21

table. Biblical text,

35:24

confession, something you've agreed to in the

35:26

pastor's covenant. Number five, give

35:29

it more time without

35:32

negligence. It's an

35:34

important dynamic in elders. This

35:37

interchange between patience

35:40

but not being negligent. This

35:44

relates to looking for objectives. You

35:47

might be stuck because you need more data.

35:50

You need another given. You need

35:52

to plot some more data points that

35:55

would lead you, that would guide you, which might mean

35:58

you're not yet at a wise point to make it decision. You're

36:02

pausing in wisdom because

36:04

you don't have the

36:06

data you need yet.

36:09

That might be the

36:11

case. One thing I found helpful as

36:14

an illustration of this, believe

36:17

it or not, I was ice skating with

36:19

my kids a week ago. Ice skating outdoors

36:22

a week ago today. We're outside

36:25

at Lake Hiawatha and one of

36:27

the biggest challenges in ice skating

36:29

for a Minnesota parent

36:31

has to do with the shoelaces. Untying

36:34

the knots of the shoelaces, getting them

36:36

all tied tightly. You got little ones, my 13

36:39

year old boys, then I got a 9 year old daughter, 6 year old

36:41

daughter. At least I'm only doing 2 skates right now. I used to

36:43

be doing 4 skates. A

36:46

big challenge is undoing the knots or maybe your little daughter

36:48

brings you the tied up

36:51

necklace. So you

36:53

got this issue, you got this

36:55

conflict, this disagreement, it's

36:57

knotted up. And

36:59

what instinct can be is, I'm just

37:01

going to watch that. I'm not

37:04

going to dive in on that, just watch it. The

37:07

knot doesn't untie itself. The shoelaces

37:09

don't come apart if you just

37:11

watch it. Now the other danger

37:13

is you just jump in on that thing. You

37:16

are all in it, you jump in, you start pulling on

37:18

it, you make the thing worse before you even evaluated it.

37:21

These disagreements in church life, the

37:23

tensions we often have in

37:25

church life that we have to work through as pastors

37:28

in governing the church are like these

37:30

knots. It doesn't get

37:32

better with inattention and it

37:34

doesn't get better with hurry. So

37:37

finding that mature dynamic of

37:40

patience with intentionality. I want to move this thing

37:43

forward. I can't see to the bottom of

37:45

this knot until a couple are pulled out.

37:49

And I want to take one good step here.

37:51

Let's start off with one good step. Let's get

37:53

one of these strings out and when this string

37:55

comes out, several others might fall open. Or

37:58

at least there might be an angle of sight in the end. to

38:00

the next one. I can't figure the whole thing

38:02

out right now, but give me the next step.

38:04

God, would you give me clarity about the next

38:06

step? Let me deal with that part of the

38:08

knot and then bring further clarity down the road.

38:10

Number six, ask

38:13

afresh how Scripture speaks

38:15

to the issue from both

38:17

sides. It's

38:19

both directly and indirectly. I'm

38:22

assuming on these gray area issues, there's not

38:24

direct Scriptures to it. That's what makes this

38:26

so important. But there are

38:28

ways that Scripture speaks to our

38:30

issues, even without the direct

38:33

text, right? With

38:36

a gray area disagreement or Jonathan

38:40

or Jonathan talked before about

38:42

jagged line disagreements as opposed

38:44

to straight line disagreements,

38:48

you may simply come across

38:50

surprising insights as you

38:52

continue reading and meditating

38:54

and sitting under God's word

38:57

in your season of conflict. So

39:01

the deliberate passage of time

39:03

might shed new light on

39:05

the issue, which is why

39:07

I'm putting revisiting Scripture here at the end,

39:09

rather than just put it first on the

39:11

list. As

39:14

time passes, you have the opportunity

39:16

to keep meditating on Scripture daily.

39:21

It's amazing what clarity you might get

39:23

on an issue and discover there are

39:25

biblical grains to the issue. You didn't

39:27

see it first, but you

39:30

discover it over say the course of a

39:32

year as a

39:34

tension or conflict or disagreement weighs on

39:36

you. It's amazing what things

39:38

we see in the Bible based

39:40

on the conflicts, the tensions

39:43

that are in our lives in particular

39:45

seasons. So

39:49

maybe you have a chance to read the Bible all the way through on

39:52

your disagreement that lasts months and

39:55

months through a year. You

39:57

might start seeing connections you previously had not

39:59

seen. New issues are

40:01

raised, they're now personal for you, and

40:05

they're presenting in fresh ways because of

40:07

the disagreement. So

40:09

there can be some wisdom in

40:11

letting certain disagreements on our team

40:13

pass through some seasons. And

40:16

let me just say, in

40:18

Minnesota, I think

40:20

it's wise to consider

40:23

the seasonal effect of the season as well. I

40:26

would love to not have anything blow up in

40:29

January or February. We

40:32

can just remind each other. If something starts going really

40:34

south in February, you just go, hey brother, I love

40:37

you, it's February. Let's

40:40

spring on this some, and let's get

40:42

some fresh clarity in April and May.

40:45

In addition to the elder qualifications, Titus 1,

40:47

2nd Timothy 2, 2326, another passage to go

40:51

to in particular, James 3, 13-18. Many

40:57

disagreements will lessen if not resolved as

41:00

you proceed patiently, query the

41:02

Scriptures, query the

41:04

situation, audit your soul, solicit

41:07

perspective and exhortation

41:09

from wise counselors,

41:11

but some disagreements

41:13

prove intractable. As

41:16

you discuss and you keep revisiting the

41:18

issue, you seem to be getting further

41:21

and further apart, not coming together. So

41:24

there's some disagreements you can live with. I

41:28

think you can live with female deacons. Happily.

41:31

Others, it may be a

41:33

matter of time before some parting will

41:36

happen, like Paul and Barnabas. And

41:40

when that happens, my counsel would be

41:42

to walk humbly and

41:44

carefully as to who

41:46

leaves and who stays. There's

41:49

no dynamic to navigate. If

41:51

the elder board is split 10 to 1 and

41:54

deeply entrenched, it's

41:57

the one that's got to go. Navigating

42:00

a righteous departure demands

42:03

great wisdom and perhaps even

42:05

more energy than working

42:07

for unity. Let me close with

42:09

this hope. In Scripture,

42:12

conflict is an amazing

42:14

opportunity for God's grace. He

42:18

does amazing things through

42:20

our silly, human,

42:22

sinful conflicts. Disagreement

42:25

is a chance on the one hand for deeper

42:27

harmony, and in the end,

42:29

greater friendship and wiser elder actions and

42:31

healthier churches. And

42:35

it might spark two mission

42:37

teams, as it is with Paul

42:39

and Barnabas, instead of just one. We

42:43

don't know any more from Acts about

42:46

Paul's relationship with John Mark,

42:50

but we do see in Paul's letters

42:52

that they ministered together later on. And

42:55

even this, the

42:59

last chapter we have from Paul

43:03

in 2 Timothy 4, verse 11. I

43:06

love this. Let me close with this. Get

43:10

Mark and bring him with

43:12

you, for he is

43:14

very useful to me for

43:16

ministry. May

43:19

God give us such hope, and may he give

43:21

us such reunions, even in this life, and

43:24

even more and even better in the

43:26

one to come. So, Father in Heaven,

43:28

for brothers in this room, in the midst

43:30

of a disagreement like this at the moment,

43:33

would you pour out your grace? I know there's been so much here.

43:36

Would you help highlight particular

43:38

things that might speak wisdom into their

43:41

situation and

43:44

wash away anything that wasn't helpful I

43:46

may have given counsel on for these

43:48

brothers' situation? Father, for all of

43:50

us, help us

43:53

to be men who love working together for

43:55

unity ahead of time, to build teams, to

43:57

love each other, to show affection, to...

44:00

cultivate such deep, thick relationships

44:02

in our leadership that

44:04

we can mine for conflict and navigate the

44:06

disagreements that are inevitable to come up in

44:08

church life. And Father, I do pray that

44:11

You would bring sweet reunions, some

44:14

in this life, many in

44:16

the life to come, through brothers who have

44:18

been at odds and return

44:21

to the great unity they have in

44:23

Christ and in the Spirit. In

44:25

Jesus' name we pray. Amen.