We are now past the halfway point of “The Last Dance,” ESPN’s 10-part documentary series on Michael Jordan and the 1990s Chicago Bulls. Episodes five and six aired on Sunday night and, for the first time, showcased just how much of a fishbowl MJ operated in.

With questions surrounding his gambling, his endorsements and his apolitical nature, along with the pressures of keeping the Bulls on top of the basketball world, you can start to see the fatigue that Michael Jordan was feeling.

In episode four of the Jordan On Jordan podcast, Midco Sports Network’s David Brown and basketball analyst Jordan Dalton examine all the pressures that MJ dealt with from 1991-1993. They also discuss MJ’s role in society at the height of his powers and how that impacted his cultural standing.