0:00

I'm like nineteen years old.

0:02

I can't make I can't

0:04

make to pimp Butterfalo my first album.

0:06

You know, Hello, Welcome

0:09

to Loud and Quiet's Midnight Chats or

0:12

Midnight Chats by Loud and Quiet Magazine,

0:14

whichever way you like it. This is episode

0:17

one hundred and one with tonight's guest

0:19

Arlo Parks, who you may or

0:21

may not know. She is a new

0:23

artist. Her debut album is coming out in January.

0:26

It's called Collapsed in Sunbeams. It's coming

0:28

out on Transgressive Records, and it's

0:31

just gonna work. It's just gonna be one

0:33

of those records that next year just

0:36

lands and does really well. I certainly hope

0:38

that's the case, but I'm quite confident

0:41

that it will be. We start off our

0:43

conversation actually talking about why

0:46

we had to reschedule

0:49

this podcast. We were going to meet up

0:51

and then she had to go to Rome

0:53

and I asked her why she was in Rome, and

0:56

you'll find out why at the beginning

0:58

of the podcast. It's impressive.

1:01

I don't know what else I can tell you about Arlo Parks.

1:03

I mean, she grew up in West London.

1:06

She's still only nineteen years old.

1:08

She made her album during Lockdown

1:11

earlier this year in a rented Airbnb,

1:13

pretty much putting the whole record together herself.

1:17

And her first love is

1:19

poetry, you know, lyrics are her things.

1:21

She's got a great talent in writing

1:23

lyrics, so it made sense that she would

1:25

then become a musician. And she

1:28

also loves horror films and

1:31

Radiohead and all

1:33

sorts of music like everything. Essentially,

1:36

she just loves music. All of that

1:39

will come out in this podcast. And

1:41

that's about it from me. Thank

1:43

you for listening to this episode. I hope you

1:46

enjoy it. If you enjoy it enough to

1:48

sling us some money. There's a link in the

1:50

description of this podcast, as well

1:53

as some links to some of the things that we talk

1:55

about. Thank you for listening to

1:57

Midnight Chats. This one is

1:59

with Arlow Parks.

2:03

I was shooting this, uh kind

2:06

of. It's a collection of short films for for

2:08

Gucci basically, and it

2:10

was directed by Gus Vansant.

2:14

Yeah it was. It was pretty crazy.

2:16

It was.

2:17

So this is like because the first one.

2:19

You directed the first yeah yeah, yeah

2:21

yeah.

2:21

So this is a series called the Absolute

2:24

Beginner.

2:24

Series, right, yeah, So I mean the so The

2:26

absolute beginner series was the one that I did by

2:28

myself, and that was just getting

2:31

like artists and actors to kind

2:33

of get behind the camera and honestly

2:36

just make a film about whatever they wanted. And

2:38

I was always super inspired by

2:40

like Where's Anderson, you know, Grand Bede,

2:43

Pest, Hotel ten and Bounds, and I

2:45

wanted obviously, poetry is like my first love,

2:47

so I wanted to combine that in some way and

2:49

get all these kind of KOOKI margate

2:51

characters and get the sea. I

2:53

always wanted to shoot by the sea.

2:55

So yeah, it was amazing.

2:56

It was Is it called folded gold not

2:58

gold, not gold, notted gold.

3:02

It's great. It's it's got that great

3:04

opening shot of you on the balcon is it the

3:06

war pole, the woletel and there's

3:08

the people playing bowls. Yeah, it has got

3:11

a real way Anderson. Yeah.

3:12

I wanted it to feel, you know, with those

3:14

very like specific color schemes like in Morelli's

3:17

with the pinks and the reds, and I

3:19

wanted it to feel yeah, a little bit surreal.

3:22

But I also wanted to involve like the people who

3:24

just lived in market, like the Bulls team, which

3:26

is such legends like they just they

3:28

were just so down to just like play their bowls

3:30

and be the intro.

3:31

It's really cool.

3:32

And it ends with you chucking

3:35

a Gucci bag in the sea. Did you actually

3:37

chuck it in the sea? Is there someone down there catching

3:39

that bag?

3:40

It was it was another bag, was

3:42

it?

3:43

Because you know, we wouldn't be chucking one

3:45

thousand pounds worth of Gucci material.

3:48

And I was going to say that is decadent.

3:50

That would be very decadent to do that. And

3:52

it ends that video. I'll put a link

3:54

to this in the description this podcast.

3:57

It ends with the bag kind of

3:59

floating out. There's a hand coming

4:01

out of the sea. Yeah, So who was that unfortunate

4:03

person who was under.

4:04

The ways Tom Dream who co directed

4:06

the film with me. That was his girlfriend and

4:09

she just put a wet suit on. It

4:11

was it was cold, she just.

4:13

Got in there.

4:14

I really commended her bravery because

4:16

I was shivering and I was not even in the water.

4:18

But yeah, she had to fully duck underneath with

4:20

wet suit and hold it up.

4:23

It's a great final shot. Yeah.

4:25

I wanted it to be like a message because you know, there's a there's

4:27

a period, there's a point where I like scribble

4:29

something down, put it in the bag and like almost

4:31

like you know, a message in the bottle, like putting it at

4:33

sea. But yeah,

4:35

that was that was It was like my first

4:38

experience doing anything like that, and it was a

4:40

lot of fun.

4:41

So this new one you were doing in Rome, is

4:43

that like a follow up to this to this one?

4:45

No, it's actually a different thing.

4:47

Yeah, it's it's a way for

4:49

like the new collection to be showcased

4:52

in a way that's kind of a little

4:54

bit left of center. So it's basically

4:57

seven episodes. There's like a cameo

4:59

in each one. So there was Me, Harry, Stars

5:02

Elish and a few other people

5:05

just kind of thrown in into the

5:07

into the narrative.

5:10

And my episode is in this

5:12

cafe and it's kind of

5:14

inspired by Andy Warhol's

5:17

Naked Lunch and like and

5:19

yeah, Gus founds Out was directing it and Chrystil

5:21

was the dop He's done

5:23

a lot of the Wan films, which was amazing.

5:26

I would say star struck. I was like, because I had

5:28

to act. I was like.

5:29

Acting, so you got lines

5:31

in it?

5:31

No, I didn't. That's the thing.

5:32

I had to improvise. I had to improvise my lines,

5:34

which is the hard bit, because you know, I had

5:37

to. So Sylvia

5:39

was the character that I was playing opposite,

5:41

and I would speak in English

5:44

and she would speak in Italian, but we

5:46

had to pretend as if it was like a normal conversation.

5:49

Obviously I didn't understand what she was saying, but

5:51

I had to be like.

5:52

Ha ha ha, like yeah,

5:56

great, do you do Do you feel like

5:58

you nailed it? Did you get did you get

6:01

to see any of it back? Okay, sure

6:05

it's not I'm sure it's good. And what does

6:07

it? What was gus Fan sound like?

6:09

He was a very kind of

6:12

quiet, sensitive, confident

6:16

presence, Like he was quite subdued,

6:19

but he knew exactly what he wanted. And

6:21

Chris was more kind of like explosive, like

6:23

he taught me how to play pinball and

6:25

we were just like laughing the whole time. So it was

6:27

amazing to have those two like quite

6:30

juxtaposed presences, but both

6:32

like icons of cinema.

6:33

Yeah, have you done any acting before at all, like

6:35

at school or anything.

6:37

I did like a few bits at school,

6:39

not really, but you know,

6:41

in some of my videos, like for Eugene, I was

6:43

acting alongside this

6:45

actress and media, and you know, obviously we had to pretend

6:47

to be like to have known each other forever, and

6:50

it's something I really enjoy.

6:51

I love it.

6:52

It's so interesting, like putting on that mask

6:54

and like being somebody else for a little bit.

6:56

I really like it.

6:56

Nice. I love that you've just gone straight from

6:59

zero row to gus Van sand Fagucci.

7:02

Yeah.

7:03

In Rome, Yeah, during

7:05

lockdown? What was the lockdown situation like

7:07

that?

7:07

It was pretty literally at the day we arrived,

7:10

everything closed, So

7:12

everything I think was closed from

7:15

like five or six for example, So I only I was

7:17

staying in the hotel, so I wasn't allowed to

7:19

leave. All I did was make

7:21

beats in my hotel room and read my book,

7:24

and so it was literally hotel to set to hotel.

7:27

So I saw the Colisey of like from Afar, but

7:29

didn't really get to see that much of

7:31

Rome.

7:32

Your film had like it, as you said, had like a Wes

7:34

Anderson vibe to But you're also a

7:37

horror film fan, right, Yeah,

7:39

what, okay,

7:42

let's talk about horror. I'm kind

7:44

of the opposite of a horror foror fan.

7:46

Are you you're not into it, I.

7:47

Can't, but but

7:50

tell me about what's your foot when? Okay,

7:53

what horror we talking about? What's your kind of thing?

7:56

What's my thing?

7:57

Okay, So it kind of

7:59

depends, right, So I

8:01

really like the kind of hitchcock like

8:04

Psycho.

8:05

I love that.

8:06

We So I like the more kind of

8:08

stylistic violency ones. I do

8:11

like the kind of psychological

8:13

thrillers as well, Like I

8:15

mean I recently watched Hereditary

8:18

and like you know, Midsimar and stuff,

8:21

like they're in a similar kind of vein. And so

8:23

I like the ones that are like slightly kooky

8:26

or you know, really old ones where

8:28

the special effects are terrible. I don't

8:30

like zombie ones. I'm not really down

8:32

for that. I like the science of lambs

8:35

kind of like Cycloa.

8:38

That's where I'm at. So, yeah, I do like something.

8:40

I mean, I've seen, you know, things like Friday

8:42

the thirteenth and all of that. I watched

8:44

the Human Science People. It was a terrible mistake and I

8:46

don't know why I didn't add to myself

8:49

because it was just all it was just gross.

8:52

But I like ones where there's like a

8:54

storyline and you're a

8:56

little bit on edge rather than it's just

8:58

like someone getting like hacked.

9:00

Yeah, so you're not.

9:02

Well, I've seen it, but I just didn't really vibe

9:04

with it, Like I didn't find it enjoyable. It

9:07

was just a bit like jury, Yeah, you're

9:09

enjoying it exactly exactly the

9:11

eye.

9:12

Okay, So yeah, I mean that type of stuff. I like

9:14

the thriller side of things and stuff.

9:18

Are there any of those films that you've watched

9:20

that have stuck with you?

9:22

I think the first time I watched Science of

9:24

the Lambs definitely, because like

9:27

Anthony Holk, I was I

9:30

was just very taken aback by how good he wasn't

9:32

playing that role and like you

9:34

know with the like that sound he makes when he's

9:36

talking.

9:36

About the beans and stuff. Oh my god.

9:39

I think what I really liked, like Psycho.

9:42

I feel like the twist at the

9:44

end was like I

9:46

don't know, I found it super inventive

9:49

and like progressive like for the time, like I

9:51

didn't expect that at all. I definitely think

9:53

my favorite films are the ones that just like have stuck

9:55

with me forever and ever.

9:57

The one that haunts me of recently,

10:00

He's get Out. Okay, Yeah,

10:03

I mean I've not seen us, And

10:05

part of the reason I've not seen us is because get out

10:08

just I was talking to a friend about this other day. I still

10:10

think about it every now and then, like it's

10:12

one of those things that are just just the

10:14

premise of.

10:15

It that's much more horrific

10:18

then sore or you know, I'm with you,

10:20

because it is that sense of like when there

10:22

is that little grain

10:24

or kernel of like reality or possibility,

10:27

like the fact that that could actually you know, that's

10:30

what makes it scary, because if it's like, you

10:32

know, some kind of supernatural like

10:34

you know I saw like Anna Belle or like those like

10:36

Chucky and stuff, and it's a bit like, you know,

10:38

that wouldn't happen. But when things like get Out

10:40

where there is that sense of like of tension,

10:43

like the tension is established so expertly.

10:45

And yeah, it's so slow

10:48

the reveal of what's going on.

10:50

I know, when he's like crying, oh,

10:53

it's horrible things.

10:56

And the bit where they reveal what's going

10:58

on where he's the picture of him

11:01

is on the easel and the auctioning him

11:04

and it's just so that like the camera

11:07

he's been taken off for a walk, to cat

11:10

Oh, that moment of realization.

11:12

It's yeah, that the premise

11:15

of that film, that is an excellent.

11:16

Thing, absolutely stuck with me.

11:19

I mean, when did you get into have you always liked the

11:22

see?

11:22

Okay, this is the story.

11:23

When I was eight or nine, I saw Coraline

11:25

and it terrified me to the exam that I never watched

11:28

a horror film again until I was like sixteen.

11:30

That's not even a horror film, but I was absolutely

11:33

terrified of I didn't like dolls, I

11:36

didn't like the buttons on the eyes. I

11:38

was very traumatized. And then when I.

11:40

Was sixteen, I watched

11:43

I can't remember what I think, it was like the Shining or something,

11:45

okay.

11:47

And I was like, okay, Like,

11:49

even though I wasn't

11:52

that taken by the Shining controversial

11:54

opinion, I liked

11:56

that sense of tension. And then I watched

11:59

things like seven and just kind of got into

12:01

the more like psychological side of things. And

12:03

then I thought, you know, why not watch some of the groy

12:05

ones. I just didn't do that much for me. Yeah,

12:07

what I mean, I just want it.

12:09

Yeah, They're kind of good to laugh at if

12:11

you watch it with a may and you're just like, yeah, laughing,

12:13

how absolutely absurd.

12:14

It exactly exactly, That's.

12:16

Kind of where that's at. So we're

12:18

currently in well,

12:21

I don't even know what the date is anymore, November.

12:24

We're in November time for anyone listening in the

12:26

future, in November time again, untiwards the end of twenty

12:28

twenty. Your album comes out in January.

12:30

January.

12:31

You are currently well

12:33

and truly in promo

12:35

mode, right, You've been super busy, Yeah,

12:38

but you've actually had I

12:40

was thinking about all the things you've been doing over

12:42

Lockdown. I didn't realize that the album,

12:45

which we have talked about in a bit, but you wrote that during

12:47

Lockdown one.

12:48

Yeah, most of it a little bit

12:50

before and a little bit after.

12:52

Sure, But there's

12:54

loads of things you've done whilst a lot of us have

12:56

been locked in. Really. You played Glastonbury,

12:58

Yeah, and obviously there was no Glastonbury this year.

13:01

For anyone who was not worth of this, there was

13:03

obviously no Glastonbury. But a few

13:05

people went and played and they had like a little

13:07

bit of coverage and

13:10

it looked amazing on TV because

13:12

it was you in front of the

13:14

Pyramid stage. There were cows there.

13:17

Yeah, the pyramid was just like a skeleton. Look

13:19

beautiful. It's a lovely day. It looked

13:21

weird to see Glastonbury have some grass on the floor.

13:24

That was bizarre. How

13:26

how was the experience because you went to Glassenbury

13:28

the year before to play when it was in full

13:30

swing.

13:30

Yeah, and that was your first Classton b Yeah, I mean that

13:33

was my first festival.

13:34

Oh wow, Okay, this

13:36

is a theme you just go you're just going straight for.

13:40

Straight in the defense. But yeah, that was amazing,

13:43

especially you know, the sun was setting. I

13:45

was singing black Dog was a really important song

13:47

to me, you know, on the TV, like

13:49

my parents were watching from home, and

13:52

it felt like it was very surreal.

13:54

It was kind of bittersweet because you know, I remember being

13:56

Glastonby last year and running around

13:58

and playing all these shows and

14:00

you know, seeing Tim in Parlor live for the first time

14:03

and all of that. But it did

14:05

like the actual ground has so much

14:07

energy, Like actually being there just reminded

14:09

me of like the possibility of festival's

14:12

next year and like how special

14:14

live music really is.

14:16

Sure was there? What was the

14:18

crew situation? Where's a lot of people there? It

14:20

looked really sparse.

14:21

Yeah, there weren't there weren't that many people there,

14:23

honestly, probably like ten or.

14:26

So, Wow, that's kind of creepy.

14:28

Yeah, it was really. It was eerily quiet

14:30

as well.

14:31

And were there because a few other people playing,

14:33

hand full of like new artists were

14:35

they were they there when you were there?

14:37

No, they weren't.

14:37

There were no it It was literally just me, my

14:41

manager and my guitarist and

14:43

someone from Transgressive Mic.

14:45

So that was.

14:46

Yeah, it was nice to like, you know, have a little road trip

14:48

down. But I remember last year, you know, we were listening

14:51

to like Princess Nokia and like shouting in the

14:53

van, like so excited.

14:55

So it was definitely a big contrast.

14:57

So when you went last year first festival,

14:59

did you the whole thing? Did you just stay the whole Yeah?

15:01

I was playing. I played four times. I've

15:04

no experienced anything like it. Yeah, because

15:06

it's weird, like all these different kinds of people

15:08

just in this kind of bubble of music, Like

15:11

everyone just kind of is in a good mood because

15:13

everyone's in the sun. Especially it was sunny, thank

15:15

god, it's almost too hot. But

15:18

yeah, it just kind of ignited my love of

15:20

festival. It's not my love of camping, though definitely

15:22

not a camping no.

15:23

Me neither and gastinories. I've not been the

15:25

customary for a good ten years.

15:29

But every time I watch it religiously on TV.

15:31

Yeah, and every year, I'm kind of

15:33

thinking I really miss out.

15:35

I feel I'm really missing out. I always want to be there

15:38

and I always intend to go the following year, and

15:40

I was going to go this year, but obviously it was canceled.

15:43

How are you with Fomo?

15:45

I feel like at the beginning

15:48

when everything kind of dissolved, obviously,

15:50

I was like, oh, I was.

15:51

Supposed to be going here, they're doing this

15:54

that.

15:54

But then I kind of just like, I don't

15:56

know, as we were saying before, like it's amazing

15:58

what people can get used to. It was like, oh, well, I guess

16:00

it's not happening, so it might as well just like write

16:03

some songs.

16:04

Yeah, And it's kind of felt, all right,

16:06

isn't it that we're all at least we're all miserable.

16:09

Yeah, to be fair, it's like a collective collective.

16:12

It's like, well, I mean I am missing

16:15

out, but so's everyone. You're kind of not missing out

16:17

in anything right now.

16:18

Yeah, that's true. It's so weird

16:20

though, how the world just shifted like in a few

16:22

months.

16:22

Yeah, it's crazy. So you were

16:25

saying that you rented an air b and be kind

16:27

of close to hear down the road in Hoxton to

16:31

was it to you recorded there as well?

16:34

So you set up a little studio in there.

16:35

Yeah, I mean it wasn't It wasn't much of it was literally

16:37

a mic guitar, bass

16:40

and like one of these little Midi keyboards in a computer

16:43

and that was literally.

16:43

What the whole record was made on.

16:45

What that's mad?

16:47

So we made yeah, I would say we

16:49

made like five or six of the songs that

16:52

during that period of time. And then afterwards

16:54

I made one of the tunes in the Church with Paul

16:56

Upworth and then he

16:58

helped me like develop one of my demos, which

17:01

is another one of the songs, Portry four hundred, and

17:03

then Bad Sounds down in Bristol

17:06

helped me work on Bluish. So yeah,

17:08

but it was mainly made in apartments, which I love.

17:10

I'm definitely not that much of a studio person.

17:13

Like I like my.

17:14

Comfort and my tea and my windows.

17:18

Right, and I suppose there's no pressure right when

17:20

you're in a I mean when I go

17:22

to if I ever go to a recording

17:24

studio to institute some or whatever I've been to. I

17:27

went to pull Up Works to do a podcast with him,

17:30

and it is I do get quite. I do get

17:32

really excited being in that room and seeing

17:34

the big desk. I'm like a child

17:36

in there. But I can imagine

17:39

there's a pressure because there's a time limit.

17:42

Like you know that this is costing money. It's

17:44

costing someone money definitely, and you're

17:46

like, I need to get some results out of this.

17:48

Yeah, you're right. It is so hard.

17:50

Like when I was writing the album

17:52

before, like I had this

17:54

definitely this sense of like stress

17:57

and expectation, and like I

17:59

was just like I need to make this good.

18:01

Like there are people like.

18:03

Not relying on me, but like you know, I'm

18:06

signed and like all these people working on a

18:08

project, Like I need to make this good. And

18:10

I think that desire to make something because

18:12

you know, I listened to out the albums that I

18:14

love.

18:15

You know, if you're listening to like in Rainbow, it's done me all

18:17

of this stuff. I was like, oh my god, I need to make something

18:19

like groundbreaking. And I was like I'm like nineteen

18:21

years.

18:22

Old, like I can't make I

18:24

can't make to PM Butterflo on my first

18:26

album, you know. And I think once I

18:28

let go of that sense of pressure that I was putting

18:30

on myself, then it just kind of came flowing out.

18:33

You know.

18:33

Yeah, yeah, you kind of got you've got to leave yourself

18:35

somewhere to go as well. You're right, you know,

18:38

and hey, it's great,

18:40

the record's great. We were just saying, I've

18:43

heard it, I've

18:45

played it a lot, and it's one of those records

18:48

sound like I'm on Radio one now. It's one of those

18:50

records that it's really instant.

18:53

It's it's like it's like instantly,

18:56

it's like a no brainer record, Like yeah,

18:58

like this is all great, and

19:00

it's so melodic and lovely.

19:05

I think that's maybe one of the reasons I'm

19:07

surprised it was written in lockdown,

19:09

because I mean, obviously, some of the stuff

19:12

on there is kind of heavy

19:14

and serious stuff and it's super personal

19:16

to you, but there's

19:18

a kind of breeziness to it

19:20

and the tunes of it and the pace of it.

19:23

No, I agree with you.

19:24

I think the reason why is that

19:27

those songs on the record, Like most

19:29

of them were written in terms of like the melody

19:31

and the lyrics in like under an hour,

19:34

like in like thirty minutes. I always just I

19:37

don't know when I when I hear some chords

19:39

or whatever that I'm taken by, I

19:42

just literally just sing the melody into my voice.

19:44

Not it's almost in one go, and I just write

19:46

all in one go, Like I have a little notebook where

19:48

I wrote all the notes for the album, and often

19:50

it is just written just like straight down

19:52

as it as it was in the final song.

19:55

That sense of like writing off instinct. Yeah,

19:57

it's just an impulse and I just follow it and I'm like,

19:59

oh, I guess it's quite good.

20:01

And does that come from? Because poetry is a

20:03

big love of yours. Were you writing poetry way

20:05

before you were writing songs?

20:07

Yeah?

20:07

Yeah, So I started off with writing short

20:10

stories when I was like eight or something.

20:12

I just always loved words, and then I went to poetry

20:14

when I was thirteen, and then lyrics.

20:16

Yeah, what were your short stories about? As an ace?

20:19

It is so funny. I unearthed one

20:21

the other day.

20:22

It was one of them was like kind of like Bonnie

20:24

and Clyde vibes like it was called like the Highway

20:27

Kids or something, and it was like these two kids who were

20:29

like highway robbers and they

20:31

were like running from the law. But then

20:34

and then I don't really understand because I

20:36

loved words, so the plots were like

20:38

not very good. It was mainly just me opening the

20:40

saurus and just adding massive words I didn't really

20:42

understand. But

20:45

there was a lot I guess about like escaping and running

20:47

around, running around and like going to

20:49

other countries. And like, I think it's because

20:51

as a kid, I mean, you

20:53

know, I live in like West London kind of out

20:56

of the way. Not that I was

20:58

bored, but like I was kind of craving that sense

21:00

of adventure when I was a kid,

21:02

and so all my stories were like that.

21:04

Yeah,

21:08

I loved those stories that kids,

21:10

right, because kids just have no rules at

21:12

all. They just do whatever they want. I've

21:14

mentioned this on this podcast before, but my wife used

21:17

to write stories as a kid, and

21:20

but her thing would be she'd get bored very

21:22

quickly, so she'd just kill

21:24

everyone in the story. All

21:26

her stories end up everyone dies.

21:28

Wow.

21:30

Wow, I'm sure there's some deep psychological

21:32

issues going on there underneath that.

21:34

But she says, it's just because she'd get bored like

21:37

that.

21:37

I mean, I can definitely relate

21:39

to that. Like my attention span is very

21:41

short. I think that's why I moved onto poetry, because

21:44

I couldn't really follow a thread for

21:46

like pages and pages, Like I would

21:48

get to the end of like two pages and that I'd

21:50

be like, well, I kind of had enough

21:52

of this now, so I would just like

21:55

finish it really quickly, like in a way that didn't

21:57

make sense.

21:58

Just get it done, do you. I'm

22:00

going to drop a name here because

22:03

this happened recently to me, so that's fresh in my mind.

22:05

It is relevant, I promise. I

22:07

interviewed John Cooper Clark

22:10

and we were talking about poetry, obviously, and

22:13

he was saying he

22:15

was telling me about how he was taught poetry in school

22:18

and it was a big thing, and all the guys,

22:20

he said, in his class would kind

22:22

of use poetry as a bit of a show

22:24

of that mat show their manliness

22:27

to try and get to try and get the girls

22:29

in the class. This is in so

22:31

he's seventy one. Now, this is

22:33

in sixty five, he said, So back

22:35

then they were all go to poetry classes

22:38

in his school, which is just a state school. He'd

22:40

be taught all this poetry and then they would

22:42

write poems and try and like

22:44

kind of bat like almost like rappers, you

22:47

know. And I was like, that's kind of

22:49

crazy because my school

22:53

and when I was like, you know, fifteen

22:56

in the nineties, we

22:58

did know poetry. What is

23:00

the deal now, Like when you were at school, which

23:02

is you know, like five years ago, last

23:05

year?

23:05

Yeah, last year was last year?

23:08

When what was the

23:10

curriculum? Is poetry a thing or

23:13

was this just off your own back of like this

23:15

is my thing?

23:16

Well, when I started, when I

23:18

was like young, like thirteen or

23:20

whatever, then we weren't really taught it that much.

23:23

But as I got.

23:24

Older, it was definitely a part of the curriculum,

23:26

but it was more kind of you know, Shakespearean's

23:29

sonnets and like romantic poetry

23:32

like Byron stuff. And we did some modern

23:34

poetry as well a little bit, because I studied English at

23:36

a level. But it definitely

23:39

wasn't the poetry that I learned

23:41

at school. Was definitely not the poetry that I

23:43

gravitated towards and that I was inspired

23:45

by when I was writing. When I was

23:47

younger, I would read a lot of like

23:50

the beat poets, so like Gregory Corso

23:52

and Alan Ginsburg all of that, and you

23:55

know, Sylvia Plath and all the kind of other confessional

23:57

poets. But we were taught

23:59

it was quite a rigid thing, you know, with the rhyme

24:01

schemes and all of this. But I just didn't

24:03

really like that. It wasn't good at

24:05

that.

24:06

When was the first time you performed poetry

24:08

to people?

24:09

Oh, as in like on stage

24:11

or like just yeah.

24:13

Yeah, has that only ever been at your

24:15

shows? And since being a musician, did.

24:17

You go for a period of being a yeah, no, no,

24:19

I was never like a spoken word, but no,

24:21

no, I think I was too.

24:23

Nervous for that. Yeah.

24:24

It's very.

24:26

To listen to as well, but like

24:29

you know, sometimes it's a little bit like I

24:31

think it's about execution, right like other headline

24:34

shows. I would like write a poem that day about the

24:36

city, and it was like short, you know, thirty seconds,

24:38

and so it's like a nice little interlude. But

24:41

sometimes you know when it like goes off like fifteen

24:43

minutes and it's just like a monologue, just like shouting,

24:46

yeah that's.

24:46

Not that's not you. So

24:49

the record as I say, super

24:52

personal, very

24:54

poetic, and like

24:57

a big thing. A big thing that you love is nostalgia.

25:00

Yeah, I'm really nostalgic as well. Do

25:02

you feel you've got a handle on your nostalgia?

25:04

I definitely think I did.

25:05

That's good. I sometimes question why.

25:07

Yeah, I think, you know, I the

25:11

way that I approached nostalgia, it's not necessarily

25:14

you know, the idea of like looking at the past through

25:16

a rose tinted lens. For me, it's more like,

25:19

I mean, this whole album for me was about

25:21

almost like processing the past and

25:24

discussing the traumas and

25:26

the joys. But like I

25:28

tried to do it in a way that wasn't

25:31

kind of tainted by hindsight, which of course is

25:33

impossible, but I wanted to kind of reconjure

25:35

up how I felt in that moment. And

25:38

also because I was in lockdown, you know, I wasn't

25:40

really nothing was happening in the

25:42

present. So and I always wanted

25:44

my Debbie album to be like a time capsule of

25:47

other things that affected me and moved me and hurt

25:49

me, like throughout my adolescence.

25:51

So that's kind of how I looked at it.

25:57

King Crawl, I was going to ask you about that

25:59

was for you, right, like a bit

26:02

of a light bulb moment to say.

26:05

Yeah, definitely.

26:06

So six Pep Beneath the Moon

26:08

came out when I was thirteen,

26:11

and it was a moment where the

26:14

stars kind of aligned for me creatively. I

26:17

heard this voice

26:19

that was literally like gravel

26:23

and grit and like dark

26:25

London skies, and I heard this

26:28

like poetry and this rawness and

26:30

the fact that the instrumentals will often

26:32

like quite kind of stripped down and simple,

26:34

but there was this sense of like pure

26:36

emotion to me and.

26:40

I just loved it.

26:41

I think it was the first time that I discovered an album

26:44

made recently for myself that

26:46

I was completely obsessed with. There

26:49

was also this album called I Thought I Was an Alien

26:51

by Soco, which was around a similar

26:53

time. I think I just discovered like the

26:56

idea of like super emotional

26:58

music that I didn't really know could

27:00

be executed by, you

27:02

know, like people my age and in that way,

27:04

and that was just immediately like this is

27:07

what I want to do.

27:07

And it's such a like it It's

27:10

such an important thing, that

27:12

moment when you discover music for

27:15

you, but like when you're not living

27:17

off of someone else's golden

27:19

era.

27:20

Exactly, you know, exactly.

27:22

So how did you Was it the thing

27:24

that everyone was listening to at your school? Can you remember how

27:26

you came across that record?

27:27

No? No, no, no, absolutely not.

27:29

So. The

27:31

way that I discovered it was that there was this

27:33

cool girl in my in my class

27:36

who had like cool taste, Like I

27:38

just remember thinking that she was like the cools thing ever, and

27:40

she introduced me to Loyal Kanana

27:43

and King Cruel and she was like, oh, you should listen to these

27:45

guys. And I was really

27:47

taken by by both of them. And we

27:49

had to give a presentation in

27:51

school about an artist that we liked,

27:54

and I was like, OK, I'm gonna do King Cruel.

27:56

Let's do it.

27:57

And I remember putting it, like,

27:59

you know, putting all this work into like the research

28:01

and stuff, and then like playing like baby Beal

28:03

or something, and everyone in the cast like didn't get it,

28:06

and they were like what is I don't really I don't really understand

28:08

this.

28:09

And I think at that moment that.

28:10

Was what were they choosing for their I don't

28:12

know what they were.

28:13

They were picking like kind of noble or something. I don't know, it

28:16

was just not I realized that I was in a slightly different

28:18

way. You know.

28:20

It's like a lot of fall Out Boy and a lot of I mean

28:22

I did like that as well, But for me, it was a moment

28:24

where I was like, Okay, not

28:26

everyone is going to like what I like. Not everyone is

28:28

going to like what I do, so I might as well

28:30

just kind of follow my taste and do

28:33

my thing.

28:33

So you were kind of out on your own with with

28:37

the cool girl. She was into it as well. Yeah, yeah,

28:39

but you were like in the minority at your school

28:41

in terms of your taste.

28:42

Yeah, I think so. I mean I didn't really you

28:44

know, I didn't really talk about music with my friends.

28:46

Like I only actually encountered

28:48

other people who loved music in the same way that I

28:51

did when I was about sixteen or seventeen when

28:53

I was at college. But at the beginning, music

28:55

was very much my own kind of personal little

28:59

it was only my person world. Like

29:01

writing was this private ritual that I did at home,

29:03

Like I would look up on YouTube, like find new

29:05

songs and stuff.

29:06

But I never really told anyone about it. Yeah,

29:08

even my family. I just kind of did it by

29:10

myself.

29:12

Thing can you remember what your first

29:14

song was?

29:15

I remember it, but I have no idea what it was about.

29:18

I remember just like thrashing on the

29:20

guitar I think I listened to I

29:22

listened to like something by Slow Dive or

29:24

something like that, and I was like, wow, like

29:26

I need to just like make something emotional,

29:29

and it was just the lyrics were

29:33

I don't remember the lyrics, but I remember at the time I

29:35

was.

29:35

Like, this is like, this

29:38

is groundbreaking.

29:39

I've got something to say and

29:41

I'm saying it.

29:42

Well literally literally.

29:44

Yeah.

29:45

So what did after

29:48

King Crawl? What did that open up for

29:50

you? Once you went from him? Where did you go after

29:52

that?

29:53

Honestly, there were I went to a million

29:55

different places at once, so I went. I

29:57

got into like the Pixies and

30:00

the students and stuff. I got really into Slowing

30:02

the Family Stone, got really

30:04

into like Elliott Smith, John Martin,

30:06

Nick Drake. I also explored

30:08

the more like soul Roots and Nina

30:11

Simone and Minnie Riperton, and

30:13

then I found Porta's Head and

30:15

the whole kind of trip hop like Massive

30:17

Attack, Tricky and stuff, which was so

30:20

eye opening for me. People

30:22

like DJ Shadow. I got really into electronic

30:24

music as well, so like AFX Twin

30:27

and Joy Orbison and stuff. So honestly,

30:29

I just went everywhere at once.

30:30

It went through. It's like opened this portal

30:33

to possibilities exactly.

30:36

It's great, isn't it that like one thing

30:39

can just do that for you? And

30:41

actually I think it probably I'm not

30:43

sure that necessarily everyone does that. I think some

30:45

people might have heard King Crawl and

30:47

then stuck in that world.

30:50

Although maybe King Crawl is the key

30:52

to it, because he's a guy that is

30:56

just like Encyclopedia of music

30:58

himself, and you can kind of tell that in his music. It definitely,

31:00

even though he's got a very definite sound that he

31:03

if you'd discovered i don't

31:05

know, just a guitar aisle, just

31:08

just a rapper, then maybe you would have just stuck

31:10

in that lane.

31:11

I think for me it was the way that I approached

31:13

it was, Okay, I've discovered

31:15

something that's unlike anything I've ever heard,

31:18

and it makes me feel really good to

31:20

know that there's something other

31:23

than what I've already heard out there. So I

31:25

wanted to kind of keep reincarnating that feeling,

31:27

keep finding that in other places, which

31:29

is why I just kind of went super broad.

31:31

Yeah, and you're

31:33

a Radiohead fan. Oh my god, you're a big

31:35

radio Head fair right. I say that

31:38

because what makes me think

31:40

that was there's just a few.

31:42

Well, and what I love about your songs is there's like references

31:45

and little name drops of things that I like.

31:47

And I think it's in the in

31:49

the Gucci film, the first Gucci film where

31:52

you mentioned kid A. In that you

31:55

mentioned Tom.

31:56

York closing

31:58

Tom York. Yeah, good, Yeah,

32:00

I love them.

32:02

So yeah, So that

32:04

came. That came after.

32:05

Yeah, that came after I think I

32:08

was like sixteen seventeen, okay,

32:10

And that was actually a really beautiful time in

32:12

my life because that was when I

32:14

really found my people in terms of finding

32:16

other creatives. Like I went to college

32:18

and there were people who wanted to be painters, directors,

32:21

and my best friend Matthew showed

32:23

me Weird Fishes and

32:25

obviously I knew I knew Radiohead,

32:28

but after that I was like, oh

32:30

my god, it like listening

32:33

to songs like Nude. It just changed

32:35

the way that I saw music. It was like a seismic

32:38

shift. And then I got obsessed.

32:40

So is in Rainbow's You're that's your Radiohead.

32:44

Well, you know, I enjoy

32:47

all of it, Like I really like Hail to the Thief,

32:49

and like The Bends for like a certain mood as

32:51

well.

32:51

And obviously Idiotech is like one of my tops.

32:54

But in Rainbows, if I had

32:56

to pick just one, like as my favorite, just

32:59

like the warmth of there and the guitars.

33:01

Oh, it's just I listened to it every day. I'm

33:03

serious.

33:04

You great, Yeah, I love

33:06

that. That's great. I like it when someone's

33:09

got an album that they just still can't

33:11

get over, like they're still

33:14

fascinated by it and love it.

33:17

I love it Rainbows and the Bends. I'm

33:19

a sucker for the Bends. Yeah, that's the

33:21

one that Radiohead fans aren't meant to say they like

33:23

it.

33:23

No, I like it. I don't care.

33:25

I love It's good, right, it's good. You

33:27

and Phoebe Bridges. I

33:29

was watching your cover All Faint Plastic

33:32

Trees for the BBC. Where

33:34

was that film that was like in a big church?

33:36

Yeah, it was filmed in a church. I can't remember what it

33:38

was cool now, but it was like a church in North

33:40

London. Sure, and we filmed

33:42

that. Yeah, we filmed that over a

33:45

few months.

33:45

Ago. That was Phoebe came on

33:48

the podcast a few weeks A few weeks

33:50

ago. We had actually had to do it twice

33:52

because I forgot to press record. It's

33:54

bad, isn't it. That's really bad? And

33:56

I think it would have been actually

33:59

probably just before or you

34:01

did that thing, because she was when she was

34:03

here. She's

34:06

very funny. Yeah, she's fun Have

34:08

you known her for a while, like or did you

34:10

just meet her for did you meet her then?

34:12

Well, so we had kind of chatted

34:15

on Instagram and you

34:18

know, she had said she was a fan. Obviously I'm

34:20

a massive fan, Like Stranger in the Alps

34:22

was one of the albums for me

34:25

in terms of specifically in terms

34:27

of the lyrics, like that sense of hyperspecific

34:29

and that wittiness I could even though it

34:31

was very kind of there were moments where

34:33

it was very somber and heavy, like there

34:36

was that sense of like cutting wits

34:38

that I could ascertain. And

34:41

then we had met up like a little bit before

34:43

to like hang out, and then we rehearsed

34:45

and then we played the

34:48

session.

34:48

We did it. It sounded great. Albums

34:50

out in January. How are you feeling

34:52

about it?

34:53

Nervous?

34:54

Very nervous, excited,

34:58

slightly apprehensive.

35:00

I'm just gonna go through all the adjectives I

35:03

think. I'm just I'm excited. I'm excited

35:05

for it to be out in the world. But

35:08

then there is that sense of like, oh my god,

35:10

like maybe I should have just put one more

35:12

song, or maybe I should take that one off, or did

35:14

I say everything? Or is that lyric even any

35:16

good? Like I think when you have it finished,

35:19

so easy to like unpick it. But

35:21

I definitely think that I put as much of myself

35:24

into the album

35:26

that I possibly and physically could. So

35:28

I hope people like it because I love albums,

35:31

that's the thing, and like and obviously

35:34

there's that sense of like I want to create something

35:36

that has like value and meaning and that's going to

35:39

be.

35:39

Important to people.

35:40

But no, you never know, like

35:42

maybe I'm just gonna get maybe it will be

35:45

terrible, it would be great.

35:46

It's gonna be great, It's gonna be great, and

35:48

then I guess next year. You don't really

35:51

know, right, It's like it's

35:53

going to happen next year exactly.

35:55

I'm definitely taking it like one day at

35:57

a time, just because it feels like everything

35:59

can shift, like within twenty

36:01

four hours.

36:02

Anyway, I guess we'll see.

36:04

Well, hopefully the new vaccine's going to arrive,

36:07

We're all going to be cured. Donald Trump

36:09

will leave office. Everything's

36:11

going to be fine. Your album's going to come

36:13

out. It's going to sell millions.

36:15

Yes, I'm loving this premise.

36:17

And you'll make a

36:19

movie with. Who would you most like to make a movie

36:21

with?

36:22

Oh my god, Where's

36:24

Anderson?

36:25

Where's Anderson? Will cast

36:27

you in his new film, starring alongside

36:31

That's.

36:31

So Hard, starring alongside

36:34

Robert DeNiro, Perfect.

36:38

Twenty one, Your Year?

36:41

Love it

36:48

Anyway, good night,