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0:29

today

0:45

hey what's up everybody

0:48

welcome back to you mile higher podcast episode

0:50

one eighty eight and we are so

0:52

excited today to finally be

0:54

in our new

0:57

oh my god it has been a long time

0:59

coming into the really does have no

1:01

idea while we did a whole custom situation

1:03

this is a

1:04

and cable which first of all can we just take

1:06

note of how beautiful this table is so

1:09

cool that he will not pay in guys if you're watching

1:11

you tube this it as the lead acid

1:14

and created these colors

1:15

metal like an acid wash on a cell vs

1:18

on metal it creates as you know

1:20

beautiful and almost looks like

1:22

errol aerial view of islands in a

1:24

guy like if you're gonna like look out like

1:26

satellite images of have some islands

1:28

that looks like ocean pelinka globe

1:30

yeah it's really cool yeah yeah i love

1:33

how it turned out

1:34

that's all three of our sets were designed

1:36

by the lovely blair fowler then

1:38

on youtube for many many years you guys might

1:40

remember to see around seven days

1:42

he only that right so she health of

1:44

come up with this the evening table divine

1:47

don't you feel special i do i saw it i'm

1:49

sitting out like as a news desk me

1:51

feel it's really cool it in a more

1:54

spaced out because we're gearing up

1:56

for a whole new year we're gonna bring desagana

1:58

have like

2:00

so much more going on than we did in our previous

2:02

study which is really as this is

2:04

that our our office space for that

2:06

her house now so it was a little the dogs

2:08

are getting under the door at night like

2:11

saying into the door while recording so

2:13

this so this much more professional set up for sure

2:15

yep of course we kept our sign because

2:17

it's iconic

2:18

we have changed their a bit as you guys can see

2:20

there's now a the plant

2:23

rain around it that miss crowley

2:25

from the sash helped us that

2:27

are set up what fantastic

2:30

i'm so happy with this that i think it looks great

2:32

there are plenty of room now for gas because

2:34

we were a little tight the other do you didn't look like than

2:37

a camera but it was

2:38

the hammer than are here and there was a lot of lingers

2:42

one , that we are going to keep working on i know

2:44

it's probably a little bit dark on some of the

2:46

the shots here but yeah or lighting situation

2:48

where it or converts work in progress lighting's

2:51

really lighting's and

2:54

in a were in an office building three have

2:57

like or i think shitty lighting yeah

2:59

very hard like my balancing that

3:02

window ma'am we hadn't

3:04

difficulties with all three says getting

3:06

it ready because we're all we're all feeling all new equipment

3:08

new camera new makes everything

3:10

is new so getting that all set up an adjusted

3:12

for this and news shows have been the

3:15

little bit of a challenge but i'm happy with the

3:17

i think everything looks great yeah

3:19

all the hard work we've put in in last year trying to get this

3:21

ready has paid off i think

3:24

the i hope though this i think i'd like

3:26

it there like we hear another

3:28

high be some yeah we like yeah i like the as want

3:30

better oh yeah there will be people it's okay i

3:32

understand some people in other would with

3:34

their vibe and everything's a whole new a whole

3:36

new set of it was you know age of

3:38

mile higher like be hotter his new era

3:41

says a new era yeah the

3:43

third round of new sat here hey

3:45

we want our during the throughout much better than

3:47

the basement and the green theories

3:49

earthly that was that was pretty rough yeah

3:52

yeah we have a

3:53

very interesting case to get

3:55

into today this one is wild

3:58

i mean a cry on a really great

4:00

the cases we've ever cover it out the i think

4:02

so it's insane so many twists and

4:04

turns and just the craziness

4:06

within his

4:08

on another lane on another level

4:10

man i mean this this one doesn't get

4:13

going to walk away from this on be and like just what

4:16

the hell happened yeah it's pretty wild

4:18

the out here to of course has got out with

4:20

soap homies me entire here

4:23

new podcast new producer

4:26

set a new new background

4:28

background yeah it's a little wrinkly

4:30

the might have hinted at the little that's for sure

4:32

yeah i'm a producer set up i think a little bit

4:35

but if you're listening i highly

4:37

suggest you either start listening on spotify

4:40

for one because we now upload video on

4:42

spotify and let him watch on

4:45

while aren't were on that topic we should mention

4:47

that the show as a whole is going

4:49

to be uploading everything wednesday's

4:52

going for it were no longer be uploading on

4:54

monday

4:56

the know that annoy people anyway so we got rid of

4:58

that whole situation because now when

5:00

we applaud audio to spot a five

5:02

spotify has the video

5:05

already sort of the rained and to the platform

5:07

it's becoming a lot like youtube now which is really

5:09

cool as theory guan really say they

5:11

did that so and again with the times

5:14

and were one of the few shows that get

5:16

to get experience that tested out really worth

5:18

really lot all three of ourselves to do that

5:21

yeah sweet i think we're one of the few

5:24

ah true crime shows that actually do video

5:26

as well and i think that's very common

5:28

in the true crime no not no not many

5:30

that do do video so yeah that's

5:32

what's cool is that you can watch this and

5:34

listen to the if you want on spotify in a mean that

5:36

the the platform for podcast now really

5:39

and if you've never watched one of our episodes it's

5:41

really worth checking out especially that something

5:44

we have a lot of clip fan or a lot of visual

5:46

because we do add a whole lot

5:48

our producer jaw other producer

5:51

as he doesn't amazing job adding in

5:53

so many different visuals and all

5:55

kinds of cool stuff to see the

5:57

wants out is right

6:00

alright so yeah , is a

6:02

a massive case we have a lots of cover here

6:04

so we're just going to go ahead and jump right into it but this

6:06

episode of the moher podcast is brought to you by

6:08

pretty litter hello fresh modern fertility

6:11

neutral and stitch fix

6:14

our sponsors the case

6:16

our covering it involves

6:18

several individuals with actually

6:20

quite a few people sort of involved as a whole

6:23

but the main people are and be talking

6:25

about our dave krupa carrie

6:28

carver

6:29

now if you know ever heard of

6:31

the author the rule

6:34

more name is for reading her book the stranger

6:36

beside me a bully been called on ted bundy

6:38

and early ship with him and her daughter

6:41

leslie rule wrote a book called

6:43

a tangled web that is specifically

6:45

about this case i should tell you right there a whole book

6:48

about the state and so we've tried

6:50

to take that whole book and then

6:52

sit down we got a lot of

6:54

our information from this book

6:56

and just so you know some of the pseudonyms

6:58

that are used throughout this case

7:01

are there for privacy reasons as you'll

7:03

soon find out so just want to give you

7:06

that sort of of why i but the other

7:08

person may be talking about in addition to dave

7:10

and carry the live

7:12

collier for just keep those names of mine

7:14

because we're gonna have to kind of start with looking

7:17

at the backgrounds of these individuals

7:19

before we sort of get into the meat

7:22

of of the story and where everything's

7:24

where it goes crazy some that

7:26

leads us to start with round

7:28

of carry

7:30

perry leah farber was born on

7:32

november thirtieth nineteen seventy four

7:35

to nancy busy and dennis farber

7:37

she grew up in macedonia iowa

7:40

there he had an older brother named adam any

7:42

younger half brother named john the

7:44

parents divorced when she was eighteen month the old

7:46

and her parents were still on very good terms

7:48

though and she had a close relationship

7:50

with both of them if he remarried her

7:53

high school sweetheart mark rainy when

7:55

carry was says six years old and

7:57

carry landmark she loved padding two

7:59

dads harry lived in macedonia

8:01

her whole life and it was a small country

8:03

town with a population of only two hundred

8:06

he he bought a very small everyone

8:08

knew each other there and people were friendly

8:11

the family lives in iowa generations

8:13

even some of her great great grandparents had

8:15

lived in macedonia the came from

8:17

a long line of loving and compassionate

8:20

people highness was just in carries

8:22

blood not only with terry a

8:24

kind person she was also a brilliant

8:27

as a child her teetered quickly realized

8:29

that she was intelligent and had placed

8:31

her in the schools gifted program like

8:34

her mother she loved the theater they

8:37

were both a talented actresses and singers

8:40

very thin a lot of time and her childhood

8:42

performing plays and musicals our

8:44

community theater

8:45

being a beautiful and smart girl that carry was

8:48

she'd always had her fair share of boyfriends

8:50

and was hard not to be attracted or confidence

8:52

and fearlessness

8:54

the carry graduated high school she went to college at

8:56

the university of kansas or she started

8:58

dating a boy named frank

9:00

some point the relationship they're actually about

9:02

to break up however carry in finding

9:04

out that she was pregnant

9:07

who try their best to keep the relationship going

9:09

but it didn't work out the carry move

9:11

back to her parents' house and macedonia and

9:13

did online class instead then

9:16

on december tenth ninety ninety seven

9:18

carry gave birth to a baby boy named

9:20

maxwell max for short you

9:22

know carry was twenty three year old single mom

9:25

busy with school he was an amazing

9:28

there

9:29

years after max was born nancy started to

9:31

notice that carry was acting differently

9:34

sometimes she had severe anxiety attacks that

9:36

were pretty difficult to deal the north

9:38

of on a periods of depression or she couldn't

9:40

get out of bed she later sent

9:42

from people around her then

9:45

we carry was diagnosed with bipolar disorder

9:47

medication seemed like it helped her condition a lot

9:50

the truth backed her usual up itself

9:52

after a while

9:54

the nancy didn't think the doctor who said she was

9:56

bipolar made the right diagnosis

9:58

none of or other doctor the diagnosed

10:00

with bipolar disorder

10:02

the only that but korea never really

10:04

seen any symptoms

10:06

typical of a manic episode throughout

10:08

the rest of her twenties she bounced around different jobs

10:11

and she also got married and divorced twice

10:14

then she spent a few years living with max and topeka

10:16

kansas actually though she moved

10:18

back to macedonia irina

10:20

up getting a job she absolutely loved as a computer

10:23

programmer at west corporation in

10:25

omaha nebraska two thousand and twelve

10:27

who's working on a big project there then

10:29

she met they've group

10:32

david alexander crew bell was born on october

10:35

ninth nineteen seventy six in sioux

10:37

falls south dakota to parents

10:39

tom interests you should

10:41

have went by day able to parents

10:43

first child but he also had to you your brother

10:46

named adam and max his dad

10:48

worked at a printing companies and his mom

10:50

worked as a better in service officer

10:53

the group as were a very honest and hardworking

10:55

family as southern bad they they were

10:57

very religious and they went to church three

10:59

times a week that and baptist

11:01

church is pretty strict and religiously

11:03

conservative harvard a group of brothers

11:06

really never held onto those police

11:08

unlike their parents religion just ended up not

11:10

being a big part of their personalize it

11:13

had a very happy childhood though the family

11:15

was very loving and he said that

11:17

they were a perfect for the

11:20

group of boys grew up in a typical suburban home

11:22

with a big backyard and lots of friendly

11:24

neighbors and friends

11:26

after graduating high school dave moved to denver

11:28

and spent two years with the national guard there they

11:31

earn an associates degree and automotive engineering

11:33

before moving back to sioux falls then

11:36

for you know dave move to council bluffs

11:38

iowa and started working on a truck stop

11:41

quickly fell for one of his coworkers

11:43

a young woman named amy flora

11:45

they ended up dating for a decade and

11:47

ended up having to kids together

11:49

let me wanted to tie the not officially but dave

11:52

wasn't big on marriage so they eventually

11:54

broke up and two thousand and eleven

11:56

the tenth after the split but they stayed civil

11:58

because they cope parent to their kids

12:00

the oven twelve dave moved omaha nebraska

12:02

which is a city right next to council bluffs or

12:04

am still live like the department

12:06

his job and spending time with his kids but

12:08

he was still lonely it also

12:11

been our the dating game for a while as amy

12:13

was his last girlfriend they've been dating

12:15

since use just twenty two years

12:17

old

12:18

the dave create a profile on the dating

12:20

website plenty of fish and a third

12:22

chatting with a woman named lives go your

12:25

you agreed to grab coffee in omaha

12:27

and at this point they was thirty five and working

12:29

as a mechanic they were thirty

12:32

eight mike days he had two kids

12:35

never they they've told her that he had just

12:37

gotten out of a long term relationship and wasn't

12:39

looking for anything to serious they

12:41

said that that was fine with her shoes busy

12:43

with our kids and her housekeeping business

12:45

so she didn't really have time for relationship either

12:48

the to them sorry the each other regularly

12:51

over the next few weeks it

12:53

could have it was was pretty into him and

12:55

he thought lives as attractive and fun to be around

12:57

which he really liked and after a few weeks

12:59

of hanging out they've started to

13:02

unfortunately lose interest in

13:04

think lives was all that smart or

13:06

well read the wanted someone who is

13:08

a bit more intellectual though

13:11

live ended up being super clinging and

13:14

that know the the wanted to spend way more

13:16

time together than dave was comfortable with

13:18

why to keep his options open so

13:20

he decide to get back why do you fish

13:23

from there they started going on more dates

13:25

and hooking up with other women after his

13:27

lifelong relationship he really wanted to

13:29

send time playing the field and seen multiple

13:32

people when dave very casually

13:34

dating lives he was very upfront

13:36

about the fact that he didn't want to be

13:38

in exclusive relationship he

13:41

also told her that he would keep seeing other women

13:43

that you know just keep it casual agreed

13:46

to keep seeing dave under those conditions at

13:49

first everything was fine

13:52

that is until they started showing up at his apartment

13:54

before some of the states who

13:56

read or less shelf little davis

13:58

she deleted her plenty this profile right

14:01

after they met has she only

14:03

wanted to see him

14:04

that gave was still from about

14:06

what he wanted

14:08

cotto the way to time to wait around for relationship

14:10

with him that was likely never going to

14:12

happen encouraged let's go out

14:15

and find someone that she could actually date the

14:17

live hold him that she wasn't

14:20

going to do that decided

14:22

that if she wanted to keep sleeping with them anyway

14:24

that was her decision

14:26

the to them fight other on know for

14:28

a while on one hand live

14:31

how to have a good time and she could be

14:33

a lot of fun the other hand

14:35

she was jealous clinging and passive aggressive

14:38

whenever they came back from hanging out with his kids

14:40

in council bluffs live would make

14:42

snarky comments about it that accused

14:44

him of going there just to spend time with amy

14:47

in reality amy and days aren't

14:49

really on the best of terms during this time

14:52

they didn't talk much outside of when the in

14:54

our dealing with the kids dropping them off and

14:56

it pissed off dave lynn lives with me honey

14:58

production seen amy especially because he was

15:00

completely just there to visit with his kit

15:03

at one point they've had enough of

15:06

list behavior and he decided to break

15:08

things where'd all we've had

15:10

a way of seducing him back every

15:12

few weeks she'd put back into his life and

15:14

right back out again after they would over

15:17

and over live ignored days when

15:19

he told her that he didn't want to commit

15:22

it it wouldn't take no for an answer he started

15:25

to get delusional about will going on between

15:27

them example in her email

15:29

today if she kept insisting that

15:31

he wasn't being honest about his feelings

15:33

for her she wrote long messages

15:35

trying to persuade him or guilt

15:37

him into an exclusive relationship

15:40

a red flag yeah the

15:42

have enough kind of work out in lizards favor

15:45

after her relentless emails agreed

15:47

to be exclusive for a month the

15:49

situation with liz was totally

15:52

exhausting

15:53

one day dave was working on an auto shop when

15:55

a woman named carry farber brought her ford

15:57

explorer in for a repair they

16:00

were sort of going over what needed to be repaired

16:03

got closer and closer as there is looking under

16:05

the hood of the car they started feeling

16:07

sort that tension the instinct connection

16:09

between them if not carry

16:11

was beautiful the didn't want to ask

16:14

got a client while he was at work

16:16

later on he found carry

16:18

on plenty of fish the search chatting

16:21

harry brought her car back to the shop two weeks later

16:24

just as dave was finishing his exclusive

16:26

month the lives that

16:29

point they exchanged numbers and planned a date

16:31

the apple bees in omaha

16:33

on their day to hit it off right

16:36

away if not carry was perfect

16:38

for him

16:39

who's smart worked a good job

16:41

and they made each other laugh constantly he

16:44

can take his eyes off of her the

16:46

middle of the date list started blowing up the phone

16:48

with endless texan calls he tried

16:50

to ignore and focus on a date but she

16:53

wouldn't stop the demanding

16:55

to come over to dave's apartment and graphs and stuff

16:57

and left behind they told her he

16:59

was on a date and she'd have to wait

17:01

the later oh that extra

17:04

oh yes you like ah

17:05

after the dinner date the to them went back to days

17:07

apartment and they spend some time talking

17:10

getting to know each other omar

17:12

then all of the sudden david buzzer

17:15

and his apartments or to go off over and

17:17

over again and when he went to the front

17:19

entrance to see who was there of course

17:21

he saw liz to cry

17:23

and demanding that dave let her in

17:26

so he went back and told carry that is axis

17:28

crying and front door and he needed to just

17:30

take care of that situation harry

17:32

would actually super chill about the whole thing

17:34

she told him that he could figure everything out

17:37

and and call her after they

17:39

walked carry out of the buildings and that's when she

17:41

enlists saw each other for the first time

17:44

harry walked right past her and neither

17:46

of them said a word to each other after

17:49

lays last even media lee called carry

17:52

the still early in the night and carries grandparents

17:54

were watching max so she invited dave

17:56

over to her house in macedonia while

17:58

the two of them were hanging out it was very obvious

18:01

that they're both really into each other but

18:03

harry wanted to be clear about her expectations

18:06

the that she wasn't looking for anything serious

18:08

she just wanted something fun and casual

18:11

the fleet it may dave really happy

18:13

because they're both looking for the same thing spent

18:16

the night and the two of them side that are multiple times

18:19

over the next two weeks the commute

18:21

for macedonia to carries job in omaha

18:23

was pretty long the david place

18:25

was right near her office and spending the night there

18:28

was a perfect way to save time

18:30

and she slept over there a lot ooh

18:32

them got along great and they were really enjoyed

18:34

each other's company meanwhile lives

18:36

was desperately trying to hang on

18:38

to date the sent him rambling

18:41

emails multiple times a day trying

18:43

to keep his attention the eve of

18:45

course just ignored most of them then

18:48

on the night of november tenth twenty twelve

18:50

someone actually vandalized carries

18:52

car ford explorer by

18:54

king and and spring silver paint

18:56

all over it the record a video

18:59

of the damage on her camcorder and then made a

19:01

facebook post about the whole incident

19:03

was definitely a hassle but she pretty much

19:06

it off after she cleaned up her car so

19:08

the night apparently somebody here i'm a whopping

19:10

metropolis of macedonia iowa decided

19:13

max's explore was not

19:15

the right color or didn't receive

19:17

we can access

19:20

the money that they were

19:20

the artist was the home so

19:23

then on nov twelve twenty twelve carry

19:25

spent the night at dave's please again

19:27

she needed to be at work court pretty early to

19:29

finish a project that she was working on the

19:31

with a typical night for the two of them and nothing

19:34

with the ordinary

19:35

the following morning on november thirteenth two thousand and

19:37

twelve dave woke up early got ready

19:39

for work the remembered seeing carry

19:42

laid out on the couch and or pj's working

19:44

on a coating project yeah to be at work

19:46

at six thirty am and days places just

19:48

a quick walk away from her office

19:50

sixteen carry call her supervisor and

19:52

gave her an update on the product she was working

19:54

on six twenty five dave

19:56

left for work on his way out he kissed

19:59

carry goodbye hold her that it's here

20:01

tonight everything seemed perfectly

20:03

normal six thirty am

20:05

came and went harry didn't

20:07

show up for work six

20:09

forty two her computer logged off

20:11

of facebook

20:13

nine fifty four am herself on logged

20:15

back into facebook the account

20:17

removed david krupa

20:19

from her friends list rana same

20:21

time carries facebook account responded

20:24

to our own post the car vandalism

20:26

incident the comet said that it

20:28

turned out to be just kids they

20:31

didn't explain any further than that twenty

20:33

minutes later they've got a surprising tax from

20:35

carry that going to move

20:37

in together the came totally

20:39

out of left field

20:41

so bizarre because he thought they were on the same

20:43

page about what the relationship

20:45

was the data merely said

20:47

no if you seconds later he

20:49

got a text back the said hi

20:53

i hate you dating someone

20:55

else i don't want to see you anymore

20:59

the way

21:00

meanwhile carry supervisor at work was starting

21:02

to get confused the really needed

21:04

to be there that day the hours past

21:07

and carry was nowhere to be found

21:10

the called her phone multiple times but all

21:12

she got was her voicemail

21:14

it came home from work that day i saw that over

21:16

stuff was gone

21:18

he received from her earlier really weird

21:20

amount

21:21

the shrugged it off until themself that maybe

21:24

it just dodged a bullet he carries

21:26

mom was starting to get worried the

21:28

received a text from her number saying that she getting

21:30

a new job it make any sense

21:32

the nancy because he knew that carries

21:34

absolutely loved her job the was

21:36

corporation multiple days passed

21:39

and nancy didn't see her daughter the

21:41

color over and over again but there is

21:43

no response the only got we're

21:45

text messages back one of the tech

21:47

said that karoo thinking of checking into a mental

21:49

hospital the also mention that she had

21:51

broken up with her boyfriend another

21:53

one said she was going to move to kansas

21:55

with day that friday nancy reporters

21:58

her daughter missing

22:00

the the sheriff's office didn't really give nancy's

22:02

report a lot of attention though

22:04

the gotta carry was an adult and no surprises

22:06

left and she'd come home eventually

22:08

the if he knew her daughter something

22:11

seriously wrong waiter the police

22:13

were treating her disappearance is really frustrating

22:16

max with the most important person and carries

22:18

life kerry would never

22:20

abandon him the the

22:23

only that but carries half brother john

22:25

was getting married that weekend she

22:27

was not about the miss that wedding for anything

22:30

that wasn't enough reason to just in

22:33

his

22:33

father dennis is battling stomach cancer and

22:36

he didn't have a lot of timeless the was

22:38

super important that everyone in the family came

22:40

to jaunts wedding that weekend

22:42

now carried did not show up

22:45

that spent the entire day staring

22:47

at the door waiting for the moment that his

22:49

mother would walk in it never

22:51

came meanwhile table

22:53

starting to get pretty freaked out the

22:55

few days after carry had asked him the

22:57

then he started getting more weird

23:00

tax from her we're all really

23:02

angry and they didn't make a lot of sense

23:04

they were full of grammar and spelling mistakes

23:06

and some of them even said she hated days

23:09

and called him names while others would

23:11

say that she loved him

23:13

many of the tag for about lit they

23:15

were pretty brutal some of them called

23:18

her a fat ugly horror who wasn't

23:20

good enough for days officers

23:22

get nasty tax from carry telling

23:24

her to off of days and threatening

23:27

to hurt her and her kids she didn't

23:29

one day lives called the police and reported

23:32

that someone had broken into her garage

23:34

the burglar or one of her old invalid check

23:37

books and also spray painted the phrase

23:39

or some days on her wall then

23:42

on the night of november seventeenth carried

23:44

mother needs the or a tax from carry

23:46

the picture of one of lizard old checks

23:49

written out for five thousand dollars and

23:51

made out to carry farber and

23:53

a signature on the check was actually live

23:55

his real name center bowyer

23:58

the middle name was elizabeth when by land

24:01

the tax for that harry had sold her bedroom

24:03

set she needed her mother to

24:05

let the buyer into the house to get it if

24:08

he couldn't believe her eyes that bedroom set

24:10

was actually a family heirloom

24:12

carry would have never saw that off like

24:14

that he was sure that her daughter

24:16

was not the one behind these tax

24:19

then if he responded and said i need to hear

24:21

your voice first so that i know it's really

24:24

you all of a sudden she

24:26

responded with a flurry of really nasty

24:28

tax calling near the controlling

24:31

and a bad mother at first

24:33

she was really hurt and angry

24:35

but then she realized that her daughter would

24:38

not say these things and it couldn't have been her sending

24:40

these messages we would never

24:42

speak to her like that not only that

24:45

but attacks are full of misspelled words

24:48

daughter who was a computer programmer and clearly

24:50

smart woman was a stickler for grammar

24:53

the every email and text that she sent

24:55

had to be perfect the nancy

24:57

obviously as like something's up with these

24:59

texas is clearly not my daughter so

25:01

she shows the police these tax and tell

25:03

them that this couldn't come from carrying

25:06

the police aren't exactly convinced that some

25:09

misspelled words for proof of that

25:11

your messages rolled in throughout the next few days

25:13

and some of them said that she was moving to kansas

25:15

and taking max with her

25:17

if he kept trying to work with the police and at one

25:19

point she mentioned that her daughter have been diagnosed

25:21

with bipolar disorder when the police

25:23

heard this the direction they took the

25:25

case and completely changed

25:28

they told me if you that carry probably had a manic

25:30

episode went through a breakdown

25:32

and then just took off

25:34

the damage it's another case of bipolar person

25:36

off with their meds and just skipping town gear

25:39

nancy didn't necessarily believe that the diagnosis

25:41

of bipolar disorder was correct

25:43

she thinks that she was misdiagnosed shatter

25:46

struggles but she never done anything that

25:48

drastic before this would have been

25:50

the first time something like this had happened the

25:53

the week after carry was last seen her supervisor

25:56

got a text from that issues

25:58

quitting her job at west britain

26:00

and moving to kansas

26:02

we thought the track down lives since her name

26:04

was on the check nancy got photo

26:07

totally pictures pretty sure terry had stolen

26:09

her checks and she'd actually been stalking

26:12

her he and date

26:14

investigators found out that some of carry cell phone

26:16

messages were being sent from villages neighborhood

26:19

search for her there but they didn't find carry

26:21

or her missing ford explorer

26:24

the interview dave he explained that he'd been

26:26

getting hundreds of harassing messages from

26:28

carry everyday

26:30

then one of the detectives got a text from

26:32

carry telling them to leave david krupa

26:35

the of the investigation detectives

26:37

responded and told her that her case wouldn't

26:39

be closed until they spoke to her the

26:41

person hurry take it back and

26:43

told them to leave her alone then

26:46

she told them i want one person

26:48

to go away for destroying everything

26:50

for me that point please

26:52

were convinced that carry was missing

26:55

she was just a gel stocker that

26:57

had gone crazy weeks of harassment

26:59

went on david getting

27:01

really sick of it you were getting over

27:04

fifteen messages a day i'm carry

27:07

the man who gets so many messages that his

27:09

phone would both tried

27:11

changing his number the email addresses but

27:13

messages just did not stop somehow

27:16

carry always found his new numbers

27:18

the the messages were totally

27:20

on oh rats cursing

27:23

and of course a lot of spelling errors them

27:26

of the messages live thought threatened to kill

27:28

her and her kids if she did leave

27:30

me alone the same time

27:33

harry was professing her love for dave

27:35

and telling him that she was going to get

27:37

rid of lives they could finally be together

27:41

oddly enough all the stalking and harassment

27:43

actually sorry bringing lists and days

27:46

back together they felt really

27:48

bad that he had dragged listen to this nightmare

27:51

she actually was surprisingly understanding

27:53

about it all and she put up with the constant

27:55

threats from harry the was

27:57

grateful that she was being such a trooper

28:00

everything but he was really worn

28:02

down about the whole situation seeing start

28:05

made him feel scared and alone the

28:07

weird ended up being a source of comfort

28:09

for him the with someone who deeply

28:11

understood what he was going through because she

28:13

was going through two sometimes when the

28:15

two of them hung out they'd get tax from harry

28:18

at the same time the be

28:20

watching a movie when all symbols of their phones

28:22

the blow up with threatening text messages

28:25

try to stay positive and they're just joke

28:27

around that crazy carry was added

28:29

again one at the end of

28:31

december day that from carried a number

28:34

telling him that she was pregnant later

28:37

on her back they've for the

28:39

sake of the baby they

28:41

knew that he couldn't have gotten her pregnant

28:43

he had actually had a vasectomy a while

28:45

ago and carry had a hysterectomy

28:48

before they may although dave didn't know that

28:50

this point the begged for

28:52

carry to leave her alone she in

28:54

fact she's not thing days is it meant the harassment

28:56

would end the tax just kept

28:59

coming thrill for months and months

29:01

if it is that really freaked out dave were

29:03

the ones that said that carry was watching

29:06

him they were sitting in

29:08

his reclining chair his apartment we got a text

29:10

from carry that said see you

29:12

in the chair with your feet propped up you're

29:15

wearing a blue teasers though he

29:17

knew that someone was deathly watching

29:19

him whenever he got these types of

29:21

tags he would run outside and try to spot

29:23

carry but he never found her

29:26

amy faith acts was

29:28

also being harassed these are

29:30

getting scary text from carry all the time

29:33

morning her stay away from days the

29:35

whole thing was really saying to take a toll on her

29:38

as well the can understand what

29:40

she had done to possibly deserve any of this

29:42

november twenty ninth two thousand and twelve nancy

29:44

mark became max legal guardians

29:47

it hurt nancy to fall for guardianship of she

29:49

didn't think she had any other options

29:52

the thirtieth birthday was the next day the

29:54

came and went without her then

29:57

we try to keep dennis in the dark about his daughter's

29:59

disappearance the very sick

30:01

and week

30:02

billy couldn't help but notice that she hadn't come

30:04

to see him anymore the in a wanna

30:06

set him so they try to break it to him as gently

30:09

as possible when they did absolutely

30:12

devastated this is so heartbreaking

30:14

to think about

30:16

that man a sec yeah he doesn't

30:18

know his daughters missing and then he finds

30:20

out he's like my gosh i'm gonna pass away

30:23

it's just the whole thing as of yet this

30:25

such mental mind

30:27

and in ah and especially knowing that

30:29

none of it just makes any sense at all like you're just

30:31

like what is going on or like why would

30:33

see why would she just walk away from

30:35

everything

30:37

the and cut everybody off the sense

30:39

in why would she be so angry at so many people

30:41

harassing all these people when she only knew

30:43

days for like two weeks before she are doing

30:46

this and there's just no

30:48

patterns of that in her pass to really

30:50

for that makes sense other

30:52

than nothing bipolar disorder diagnosis

30:55

that has been disputed the

30:57

summer seven died

30:59

of stomach cancer the family got

31:01

no word from carry the

31:03

turned fifteen three days later his

31:06

mother never showed up

31:08

in his funeral was held on the twelfth and again

31:10

family members glance at door constantly

31:12

waiting for carried a come and say goodbye to her

31:14

dad terry never came

31:18

her facebook account posted an update

31:20

apologizing for missing funeral

31:24

of course it's just so out of character

31:26

why mean we know that she would close with her father

31:28

she cared about him very much and she'd never

31:31

would do this

31:32

one nine after dentists is passing nancy

31:34

saw him in a dream the spoke

31:36

lovingly and told her if

31:39

he's with me

31:41

the with after that dream that she knew carry

31:43

had passed away my interest as

31:45

while if you desperately

31:48

wanted her daughter to be found alive the

31:50

dream gave her some sense of peace

31:52

the was relieved to know that carry with safe with

31:54

their loved ones and have still

31:57

the knew that her daughter's case

32:00

the to be so the i mean it's pretty clear

32:02

that

32:02

the her mother as like figured out that

32:04

somebody you that posing as daughter

32:08

none of it's adding up and

32:10

the hearing from her for so long i hear your voice

32:12

her missing these huge milestone

32:15

sniping there for her son i mean

32:18

see now right especially when she got

32:20

the text from cherry

32:21

then she'd like wanna believe

32:23

anything you're saying until you i

32:26

hear your voice and the not just never happened so

32:28

i think she realized entirely

32:31

wrong happen

32:33

the before we get into what happens next

32:35

is only idiot crazier and crazier going to take

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the getting back to our story here on january

33:42

six two thousand and thirteen nancy

33:45

logged into her facebook account and found

33:47

a new message and he was from a profile

33:49

using her daughter's name and photo

33:52

if he responded saying that phone call would

33:54

be the only way that she would believe that

33:56

the center was actually carry the

33:58

account fence an agreement the back

34:00

to her the message said fine

34:03

i will call you but i am done after

34:05

that you have max and

34:07

i'm grateful that after all

34:09

the cops stuff from for i

34:11

am done hi i'm not ten

34:13

years old mom i can leave him

34:16

and move on with someone new the

34:18

than another method saying everything is

34:20

about phone call i was just heading

34:22

to bed who else would know

34:25

about that fine

34:27

i will call you some time i just wanted

34:29

to let you know that i was ok

34:32

then there's several grammar

34:34

and spelling errors in these messages sounds of

34:36

course you suspicious that this just was not carry

34:39

then carries a facebook account

34:41

posted a status update and it said

34:43

that david krupa had proposed

34:45

to her there's also a picture

34:47

of someone's hand where the wedding ring on it if

34:50

you got the hand in the photo couldn't be carries

34:52

the fingers were sort and study unlike

34:55

carries fingers which were long and slim

34:57

she forwarded the profile to the police who

34:59

contacted days and he told them

35:01

that he obviously never proposed to carry that

35:04

he also told him that he got a scary

35:06

email just after midnight on the six

35:09

the photo of a woman with dark hair

35:12

hide it in the trunk of a car with duct

35:14

tape over her mouth the particle

35:16

exactly what was that the email

35:18

said that it was liz defender

35:21

claimed to be carry and she demanded that dave

35:23

downplays and get back together with her

35:26

or else she'd kill her that

35:28

message was bullshit bow so he

35:30

went to bed the next morning he

35:32

texted less complaining that carry was

35:34

being cycling they replied

35:36

saying that she was fine and that day

35:39

the sweet for checking in on in

35:41

two days later dave spotted a black

35:43

ford explorer in his apartment complexes

35:45

parking lot and he maybe

35:48

it's perry it covered in snow

35:50

which meant that i hadn't been driven for days

35:53

the forensic investigator came out and check the car

35:55

for evidence the car looks like it had

35:58

been wiped clean on the inside the

36:00

only recovered the fingerprint which

36:02

he found on the top of an empty mit

36:04

ten in the cup holder the

36:06

ran it through their system that there was

36:08

no match the also spotted

36:11

a light pink stain on the passenger

36:13

seat as she assumed it was just a spell

36:15

meanwhile date unless we're just becoming exhausted

36:18

by all carries games the the

36:20

allowed the police to do a phone down

36:23

to do that phone dump investigator connected

36:25

a small device to their phones that downloaded

36:27

all of it's content important

36:30

note though that this particular download

36:32

didn't pick up any the did by

36:36

that point he was starting to get tired

36:38

of lives again she's back to her

36:40

normal bullshit sending him long

36:42

passive aggressive emails to get his attention

36:45

they felt bad that list had put up with so

36:47

much so he agreed to set

36:49

aside one day of the week to spend with her

36:52

and that was wednesday then in february

36:54

live the cops twice to report

36:56

that her car they had been vandalized april

36:59

first she reported that someone had keyed

37:01

the phrase whore don't think

37:03

dave in their car on

37:06

april seventeenth fancy got a call from

37:08

someone claiming to be dave krupa the

37:10

that carry called him and told him

37:13

that she would add a homeless shelter in omaha

37:16

if he immediately called the police and

37:18

see in the detectives went to the shelter to see

37:20

for themselves then unfortunately

37:23

carry was not there and see was

37:25

absolutely heartbroken when cops

37:27

as dave about the cause he had no

37:29

idea what they're talking about someone

37:32

had impersonating him on the phone

37:34

when nancy then on may third

37:36

max work that the courage to send his mom's

37:39

facebook account a message he sent

37:41

a simple high and he quickly got

37:43

a message back the said hey little man

37:45

how are you harry never

37:48

called her son little man he

37:50

was a teenager not a little kid so

37:52

he didn't think he was talking to his mom we've

37:55

been back in question what my middle

37:57

name what's the name of our first dog

38:00

and who is my best friend growing up and

38:02

of course this account did not message

38:04

in the with the answers sometimes

38:07

when dave had a new woman in his life they

38:09

would also get harassing text messages

38:12

one woman who was the mother of two

38:14

even got tax from someone told me let

38:16

her and her children's tweets the

38:19

hadn't even met david person the

38:21

just shouted on plenty of fish crazy

38:25

i know somebody like

38:26

monitoring all days accounts

38:29

everything he likes it seems that suddenly

38:31

gotten is logged in information for

38:33

sparsely from plenty of fish i mean if they're literally

38:36

reaching out to everybody is talking to

38:38

so scary is

38:41

any fifteen am on august seventeen two thousand

38:43

and thirteen live call nine one one the

38:45

had broken into her house and set

38:47

it on fire

38:49

when the firefighters went inside the found the bodies

38:51

of lives for pets

38:53

two dogs a snake and a cat which were

38:55

all dead from smoke inhalation that

38:58

is terrifying and i would absolutely

39:01

this destroy someone if they did that

39:03

my house and my pets i can't even imagine

39:06

the anger

39:07

the firefighters amelie began under investigation

39:09

into the cause of the fire then quickly

39:11

they determined that someone intensely started

39:13

the fires in multiple rooms of

39:15

the home i mean if you look

39:17

at pictures is yeah

39:20

roasted like this was a series fire high

39:22

temperatures things are basically

39:25

just smoldering ruins here little

39:27

the party that a woman named carry was stalking

39:30

her to the course of our first got her in like a

39:32

looks like yeah i know some fires

39:34

her who could it be and she

39:36

merely says oh

39:38

the actually cared she's been stalking me

39:40

she also showed him in the email from her that

39:42

said hope you and your kids

39:44

burned to death the little while later

39:46

carry emailed her in claims she was the one who

39:48

torched the house what

39:52

i've seen so far

40:00

he the

40:04

local name

40:19

the bombing i

40:21

know what

40:25

do you think that people i'm

40:28

an intensely set my house on fire and killed on

40:30

my pet harry i

40:33

mean luckily hitler

40:35

and home when that far up that

40:37

was carry yeah will

40:39

etc

40:41

when you start thinking about the all this it's like

40:43

you don't really hear stories of stalkers

40:46

like

40:47

going to this point that often i

40:49

obviously apathy her it's not like

40:51

neither not that to where they're committing

40:53

arson and burning down your entire house

40:55

with all the animals inside leslie when

40:57

they're completely missing in action from the

40:59

rest of their lives right and

41:02

and yeah oh no very very

41:05

scary that

41:07

the barman are still investigating the fire

41:09

at her house was called update the

41:11

to them and had a break up right before

41:14

the fire he told him that carry

41:16

bert her house down the day felt

41:18

guilty and left work to go see her

41:20

that point they've got sucked back into the relationship

41:23

with liz the catholic guilt thing

41:25

him telling him that he brought carrying

41:27

her life harry was the one that

41:29

was terrorizing her that was the one that

41:31

set her house on fire the weaker

41:33

stalking and vandalism dragged on and

41:35

he could tell that was getting to be too much for days

41:38

the almost lost his job multiple times and

41:40

he never felt safe anymore the

41:42

officer the drink a lot more than he usually

41:44

did throughout the next year they're harassment

41:46

continue

41:47

everyone had gotten used to let this point the

41:49

scary tax the threats the vandalism

41:52

the brick through the windows and never made

41:54

anything easier that import

41:57

team came and went with still

41:59

no nine carrie them

42:02

in april of two thousand and fifteen detectives

42:04

right either

42:04

the engine dirty decided to take a fresh

42:07

look at carries disappearing the

42:09

to them came up with a new strategy it had a piece

42:12

this whole mess together the

42:14

active enough let examined case files

42:16

assuming that harry was still alive detective

42:19

dodi worked off the assumption that

42:21

carry was dead a minute please

42:23

hadn't considered much before the prizes

42:26

detective or one name some up a little

42:29

too often in their examination oh

42:33

everything kept playing back to live there

42:35

is how many coincidences no

42:38

detectives wanted to start investigating her

42:41

then it a few days later they were stunned

42:43

to see liz walking through the door

42:45

of the sheriff's office on december

42:47

fourth two thousand and fifteen live

42:49

told police that she wanted to file a harassment

42:52

report against any flora

42:55

the act the whole detective

42:57

a this that amy was stalking her

42:59

on facebook and that she'd probably stole

43:02

the it's going to date had recently

43:04

bought another gun to protect them a

43:06

few days later after dave and lives

43:08

broke up again the gun went

43:10

missing will claim that the

43:13

thief had to be amy the one

43:15

who was crazy with jealousy in

43:17

fact she believe that any was the one who'd been harassing

43:19

her and dave the whole time not

43:22

carry

43:23

they identify as to me understand

43:25

why a person with him

43:28

for years later

43:30

keep me active but

43:33

for but for overboard with days

43:37

then another strange thing is the detective

43:40

asked her she knew

43:42

as have gotten his lights and right away

43:44

she said it was a nine millimeter then she

43:46

said oh i only know that because i saw

43:48

it

43:49

how did the bought some method western chilling

43:51

knew exactly what it was dead though

43:53

she felt like he was much more like that amy

43:56

will be the stalker they told

43:58

and heck of a this that she the bunch of threatening

44:00

tax from a need to prove it though

44:03

he asked to let please download her phone

44:05

content and she agreed the

44:08

time the gamut would collect

44:10

everything that was on that phone even

44:12

deleted data which for

44:15

leave the not realize that this was the

44:17

case

44:17

then things

44:20

got even more wild because

44:22

the next day at six forty one pm

44:24

lives call nine one one from big lake park

44:27

and council bluffs she screamed

44:29

into the phone that someone had

44:31

shot her let's go someplace and i'm on call

44:34

i can't remember

44:37

your mark i

44:49

have a plan for

44:51

, one i say so

44:54

the most of you especially if you're a

44:56

big true crime sand cause pretty

44:58

sauce right off the bat rate so

45:01

officers when they arrived on the scene

45:03

families leading on the ground next

45:05

to her car she had then shot in her

45:07

left thigh this is also

45:10

pretty strange like is you know someone's

45:12

really coming after you what are the chances are just gonna

45:14

shoot you in the wagon and runaway but when

45:17

officer asked her shot her

45:19

she said she didn't then

45:21

all the sudden he came to her and she

45:23

cried out it was amy flora amy

45:25

flora shot me they said that she

45:27

was sitting on the bench just minding her own business

45:30

when amy approached her from behind and said

45:32

so you like fucking days and

45:34

then any solder in the leg

45:37

and rana

45:38

why reason that what you are what motive

45:40

is behind the i mean if you're gonna go shoot

45:42

somebody at night miller park it seems likely

45:45

that i would have been a kill shot versus a shot

45:47

know lagers and it like this was a just scare

45:49

her and than also give

45:51

her identity at the same time why would anybody

45:53

do that plus any is showing no

45:55

signs of wanting days back

45:57

or yeah sadly no says

46:00

really have and then she liked just shot and

46:02

five and ran through thing and there's

46:04

no

46:05

no evidence to back that up it just doesn't

46:07

make any sense pretty obvious was it's kind of starting

46:09

to lose it at this point you're not really able

46:11

to get any better for it henri street ask

46:14

for desperate measures in order to

46:16

keep the story go on seems like a desperate

46:18

person we've searched

46:20

the area but they couldn't find any of

46:22

that a shooter an ambulance took

46:24

lead to a nearby hospital your what are the chance

46:26

that there's there's a shooting in there's absolutely no

46:28

evidence no gun know nothing even

46:31

back that up whatsoever

46:32

around one pm any was sitting on her couch when

46:34

she heard banging at her door the when she

46:36

opened it she saw a bunch of cops with guns

46:38

pointing out her

46:40

they said that senegal you're told

46:42

them that amy flora had shot her

46:44

amy try to explain that she had nothing to do

46:46

with whatever the hell they're talking about and

46:49

she agreed even take even take test

46:51

clearly she was still shaken up a better experience

46:53

with the police when she took it they just putting

46:55

guns at her an accuser shooting someone

46:58

the after all the questions honestly but she

47:00

still failed polygraph which we all know

47:02

i got has or

47:04

you know they work sometimes sometimes they don't you

47:06

know you can't can't base

47:08

everything now on a polygraph

47:10

definitely i suddenly in court

47:12

admittedly it's monitoring heart rate and all

47:14

these things and if you'd just had a bunch of cops showed

47:16

up with their guns drawn on you

47:18

you would likely fail polygraph tests of that's

47:20

really scared you and up and out of nowhere despite

47:23

failing the polygraph test so please quickly

47:25

cleared her have any involvement shooting anyway

47:28

get a very clear to them that amy wasn't

47:30

involved

47:31

meanwhile special deputy tony kappa was

47:33

examining the contents of loses phone

47:36

the first download of loses found from january two thousand

47:38

and thirteen was only a logical

47:41

down meaning a didn't collect any

47:43

delete data the next

47:45

download captured everything including

47:48

anything that had been deleted

47:50

on mobile phone the

47:52

founded on tens of

47:54

thousands of messages sent by lives

47:57

acting up fake email accounts and

48:00

emanating photos there

48:02

was indeed impersonating harry

48:05

harvard he had been

48:07

stalker the entire time

48:10

there were even photos of list dating her kidnapping

48:13

photos of carried car before police discovered

48:16

doubly standing in front of a shower curtain she bought

48:19

using carries credit card

48:21

kava trace dozens of email addresses

48:23

facebook accounts and cell phone numbers

48:25

used to start day right back

48:28

to live sheer volume of data

48:30

that he was able to recover was enormous he

48:33

put in hundreds of extra unpaid hours

48:35

pieces together all the tax the

48:37

emails and photos and even created special

48:39

machine the log in organized

48:41

each piece of data which

48:43

is interesting too that

48:46

by how smart lives thought she was

48:49

by like downloading all these apps that help

48:51

you master numbers and spoof my

48:53

email accounts and the email accounts

48:56

he made

48:57

kerry were just like free to email accounts for she

48:59

just put like and terry and farber

49:01

indifference sort of arrangements

49:04

and she'd cray account after count but what she

49:06

the also they realized that that data

49:08

the pictures on videos

49:11

actually tells you time and day

49:14

of one that photo or video was taken

49:16

it to can sometimes tell you location though

49:18

it's very easy first a forensic

49:21

specialists

49:22

the tech specialist you figure all this out that

49:24

was all clearly coming back i mean a lot harder

49:26

to to fake your ip address and things

49:28

like that so it was very clear that all

49:30

this stemming from liz i would do anything

49:33

to see with like when she had these photos

49:35

of her so i know their own

49:37

finished yet , your side or

49:40

or distressed phase public on average

49:42

cigarettes michael gets mc gets just

49:45

started actually form in

49:48

, the text specialist kava

49:50

said that the amount of time

49:52

dedicated to pull this off

49:54

would have been forty fifty hours we get this was

49:57

lives full time job that's

49:59

sad the way the ah stalker

50:03

though after after all this came out they

50:05

got all the data compiled is very clear to detectives

50:07

at least one that fool your psychopath

50:10

and a stalker

50:11

leaving fraser that she even

50:13

burnt her own house down

50:16

knowing all from asthma thought

50:19

i told our father

50:20

in i mean wow that's a serious

50:23

commitment and just pure evil

50:26

you cannot no amount of money would

50:28

ever know maybe

50:29

at not as you can pay but just me i know what the fuck

50:32

with me on a person that you know member

50:34

of know zealously ran into

50:37

on top of that then she shot herself

50:39

yeah that's some serious commitment in a sign

50:42

and she could easily probably killed herself

50:44

a decision as decision it was just so obvious shooting

50:46

yourself shooting the thigh like come on nobody

50:49

aims for the thigh when they're see if you're shooting

50:51

to shooting somebody most times you're aiming

50:54

the kill shot now

50:56

in a beefy sigh like i'm

50:58

a big meaty

51:02

area so detectors like okay

51:04

this all makes sense now which it's crazy it's took

51:06

this long for the last or

51:08

wrap their heads around it but then again as it

51:10

seems like for a long time

51:12

detective work hannah running with this

51:15

carry story because yes it's a ward

51:17

of makes sense and they did have that diagnosis

51:19

of bipolar disorder and if you think about

51:21

it from their perspective i'm sure they have previous

51:23

cases where

51:25

docker is how you know now i'm like animals bipolar

51:27

disorders very common and it doesn't necessarily

51:30

align line up with these types

51:32

of behaviors at all not plus

51:34

the fact that she'd only known this man for two

51:36

weeks was completely fine before

51:39

he left for work that day was sitting there and out

51:41

till now working and then she to

51:43

sell anything and does all this shit it

51:46

seems so obvious like it's surprising that not

51:48

only the police in figured out the days as well

51:50

like it never dawned on him like maybe

51:53

it's less this person who has done

51:55

all this crazy shit in the past and it's harass

51:57

me of her emails and is clearly obsessed

51:59

with they won't let me go they

52:02

showed up at the apartment on one of their days

52:04

banging on the door just

52:06

like it's it's very surprising

52:08

that no one other than max and them on

52:10

their feet were starting to figure this out

52:13

i know if i were them i'd be so your

52:16

yeah said it took this long the put

52:18

the pieces together when it seems i mean

52:20

i'm sure lot of us can agree to seems pretty obvious

52:23

i just don't understand why law enforcement

52:25

doesn't like i guess maybe because is not available

52:27

what like utilize a mental health professional

52:30

you may be look at the situation be like

52:32

was there triggers hear that could have triggered

52:34

a manic episode it's hard because it's not like they

52:36

would have had a value lead in her in

52:38

advance know had any really looking

52:41

at what everybody telling them just trying

52:43

to as a general offer to using because

52:45

if you look at triggers for manic episode

52:47

the mean it's like

52:48

lack of sleep which may be that that may

52:51

have been it she was up late working on this project

52:53

or whatever but again this is one thing

52:55

blow our arguments with partners coworkers or

52:57

friends that wasn't happening with dave they

52:59

were they had a great night and we're

53:01

going to have another great night most likely

53:04

i mean alcohol abuse there's we don't

53:06

have any evidence of that drug intoxication

53:08

suddenly demanding to move in

53:10

in the then when before she had told him

53:12

running times human rights like casual

53:14

relationship as hundred one on t dude

53:17

i am not like you know it's the really thought

53:19

she was like come on but then again i'm

53:21

in two weeks how old you know somebody

53:23

you don't know somebody that was

53:25

so maybe he just was like all like this

53:27

is a crazy this woman's crazy man

53:30

now and and also you gotta think from his

53:32

position when this it all starts happening to

53:34

you like your your

53:37

ability to think through things logically

53:39

a think kind of goes out the window a little bit because you're not

53:41

scared you're not dealing

53:43

beer and i think it said it's hard

53:45

to judge without being in the situation

53:47

like it's hard to a day

53:49

ago and easy to do it

53:52

, it's his his earlier episodes

53:55

of two weeks it it's crazy

53:57

the going for him but anyway let's

54:00

the little bit more about lives and who

54:02

this woman was

54:04

like we mentioned earlier her real name

54:06

is shannon hey collier she's

54:09

born june twenty nineteen seventy five in

54:11

kalamazoo michigan and lives are separated

54:13

from her when she was very little so

54:15

she doesn't know much about them the mother

54:17

was the kind woman the name dolores or

54:19

be for short that father

54:22

was these boyfriend a man

54:24

named out jenkins our

54:26

be violent alcoholic who repeatedly

54:29

the beauty in front of the kids when

54:31

labour two years old michigan social

54:33

services took her and her brother george

54:36

out of the on the eventually kicked

54:38

out of the house the social services

54:40

agreed to return the kid the

54:42

nineteen family her mother was hit by

54:44

a car and tragically killed social

54:47

services didn't let her relatives adopt

54:49

her kids so lives and george ended up

54:52

in foster care the reported

54:54

that she was abused at least one the

54:56

her foster families financially

54:58

she was adopted by the goal your family

55:00

in battle creek michigan they

55:02

changed her name to share elizabeth

55:05

collier then she didn't start going

55:07

by lives until later in her bowl the

55:10

ninety ninety seven lizard dating a

55:12

man named raymond for a family

55:14

was deathly not a fan of her their

55:16

relationship continued and chin

55:18

of getting pregnant that year during

55:20

her pregnancy labor this is that was

55:23

cheating on him with her new roommate twenty

55:25

one year old land august

55:28

twenty fifth ninety ninety eight live

55:30

gave birth to her son cody nathaniel

55:33

called there the not ercole was born

55:35

live left way for good when

55:38

where the very clear hearted man but unfortunately

55:41

he was very easy for lead to

55:43

manipulate family actually said

55:45

he had a mental handicap in a learning

55:47

disability they've moved in england

55:49

how where he lived with his mother

55:51

gloria gloria really

55:54

did like was from the beginning the

55:56

today she gave her bad vibes not

55:59

only that leave was very good and manipulative

56:02

and she never paid went there

56:05

are also notice that cody seem to be a relief

56:07

the and unhappy baby and he was

56:09

constantly crying minaya

56:12

january twenty eighth ninety ninety nine

56:14

lives had called glenn and him to

56:16

fresh home because she had dropped the baby

56:19

when gwen got back code he seemed

56:21

fine the next morning general

56:24

twenty ninth are you notice that cody

56:26

was unusually quiet around

56:28

five pm that day where he returned

56:31

home and found cody unresponsive

56:33

in his career england and

56:36

me it was called nine one one and police

56:38

took cody to the hospital tragically

56:41

till he did pass away that night and

56:43

his cause of death was listed as shaken

56:46

baby syndrome the police

56:48

ended up fashion england them the net cody

56:50

had died the told him that he

56:52

occasionally would gently tossed the they

56:54

the in the air there and catch him because they made

56:56

cody giggle though they ended

56:58

up arresting glenn for cody

57:01

that the police questioning of

57:03

glenn frey some red flags the

57:06

seem like they were taking advantage of

57:08

his mental state to time coach him

57:10

into incriminating him that

57:13

wasn't the only this is part of this

57:15

case dr testified

57:17

that the baby had died after hagar

57:19

athlete said twenty

57:22

or more second the not didn't

57:24

match up with what glenn said he

57:26

was talking about in a few layers off

57:28

that way that they would have a little air the

57:31

pre unlikely that a late toss could have

57:33

caused such severe seek a baby

57:35

syndrome yeah and after shaking

57:37

incident they can take anywhere from hours

57:39

to days or a baby

57:41

to start showing symptoms multiple

57:43

people thought cody in the days leading up

57:46

to death including with meaning

57:48

that it's possible she had something to do with cody

57:50

that especially since he had called

57:52

gladden and told him that

57:54

she accidentally dropped him in

57:57

the city so people notice that lives

57:59

wasn't acting the grieving mother after the baby

58:01

past the actually went on a shopping

58:04

three and acted super cheerful

58:06

around other people and even slept

58:08

with ray a day before code

58:10

his funeral the funeral

58:12

ray noticed that lives with smiling and

58:14

showing pictures of toti to people as if she had forgotten

58:17

that her son was in the car in behind

58:19

her it just didn't kill down

58:22

raise spine they took the stand

58:24

at cleanse trial disguised in a blonde

58:26

wig and it's probably has something

58:28

to do with the fact that she had a worn out

58:30

for her arrest for car theft

58:32

at the time of it turns out

58:34

live had tried to pin the blame on gloria

58:37

the day after code he died he told

58:39

police that gloria admitted to seeking the

58:41

baby which obviously never happened

58:44

the final blow to glenn's defense came when lives

58:46

read a series of letters that she claimed glenn

58:48

sent her from jail this is

58:50

where we start to see lived as ammo and action

58:53

the letters glenn admitted

58:55

that live had nothing to do with code his

58:57

death some of them had dramatic

58:59

confessions of love for less one

59:02

of the letters the lan hold

59:04

their that he and raymond had talked about her

59:07

then in raymond never talked him weren't friends

59:09

so this made absolutely no sense

59:11

the area knew that these letters were complete bullshit

59:14

her son had a learning disability any couldn't

59:16

write any of the complex sentences

59:18

in those letters unfortunately

59:21

the court didn't challenge that they accepted

59:23

at the forged letters as real evidence

59:26

then was still under live spell and he didn't

59:28

defend himself against or claims so

59:30

he end up pleading guilty and just like

59:32

that lives walked all the courtroom a free

59:34

woman later on lives had to more

59:37

children daughter and son

59:39

then father was her ex boyfriends they

59:42

had broken up with lives after she became controlling

59:44

and insanely jealous after the

59:46

breakup he started dating a new woman named melissa

59:49

lives hated her pretty much from the get go

59:52

they could start by are called are constantly

59:54

once even seed melissa car sometimes

59:57

you attacks most explicit photos of

59:59

her

1:00:00

and dirk to try and get most of the believe that

1:00:02

dark was cheating not only that

1:00:04

but lives trying to become melissa first

1:00:07

we started setting to work as a pharmacy

1:00:09

tech which was the same job that melissa

1:00:11

hat then we've got hair extensions

1:00:13

the match melissa's hairstyle

1:00:15

with the had a black mitsubishi solace

1:00:17

bought a black mitsubishi the

1:00:20

open credit cards anomalous his name sometimes

1:00:23

was even told other people that

1:00:25

her name was in fact melissa

1:00:27

probably melissa pretty good reasons to be afraid

1:00:30

of her

1:00:31

one day was brought cookies to their house except

1:00:33

one container cookies were specifically labeled

1:00:35

for melissa

1:00:36

he joked with dirk that lives was trying to poison

1:00:39

her but he brushed it off

1:00:41

the whole thing so gave her a weird feeling and

1:00:43

she throughout the cookies knowing

1:00:45

what we know now those and things may

1:00:47

have actually saved her life because those cookies

1:00:49

are likely poison later

1:00:51

omelets started dating a man named garrett flow

1:00:54

there are no settlers loved horror movies particularly

1:00:57

gory than ones which he found really

1:00:59

disturbing whenever he'd look

1:01:01

away and horror he live next

1:01:03

to him staring at the tv completely

1:01:06

emotionless

1:01:08

even weirder was that lives once told garrett that

1:01:10

horror movies were funny to her the

1:01:12

same way comedy movies or phonies other people

1:01:15

in two thousand and twelve garrett worried that was cheating

1:01:17

on him she become distant and cold

1:01:20

and it turns out lives was cheating on him

1:01:22

with none other dave group

1:01:25

every wednesday she told garrett who's working he

1:01:28

was really were day and he didn't

1:01:30

find out until years later the

1:01:32

same time dave had no idea that lives had

1:01:34

a boyfriend even though he encouraged her to

1:01:36

see other people one who joked

1:01:39

with dave that she was going to try and set her friend

1:01:42

there it the crazy carry

1:01:45

they've moved in with garrett he thought they'd be sleeping

1:01:47

in the same bed instead live took

1:01:49

the basement and act more like a roommate that girlfriend

1:01:52

the only time he noticed she was sweet him was when

1:01:54

she needs something the why

1:01:56

she had voided them completely they

1:01:59

claim to be a house or but she turned a basement

1:02:01

into a complete mess to a close and

1:02:03

jumped scattered all over the for constantly

1:02:05

it was really common forget to find rotting bag

1:02:08

that half eaten fast food they

1:02:11

had left out for days the

1:02:13

opening pay any rent or any the utility so

1:02:15

garrett one her to find a new place to live

1:02:17

but he knew she couldn't afford it the just

1:02:20

let her stay they want our kids

1:02:22

to be left homeless

1:02:23

we don't know exactly how much investors knew about

1:02:26

was passed at this point

1:02:27

they did have evidence that proved lives was

1:02:29

stalker and they knew she had something

1:02:32

to do with carries disappearance they

1:02:34

just needed more proof now

1:02:37

before we get into the wrap up over

1:02:39

this crazy story or intake

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or final break

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poring over your plugged good her skin is probably

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doing real damage to your foundation

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if you need to do what i did get off the ladder

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and called leave filter yeah but i

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thanks frank calling we filter and i don't

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hundred and four detroit four no

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for an extra fifteen percents on

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it for for three hundred for going to try

1:04:41

to talk one world war three hundred

1:04:43

and week

1:04:44

the detective delhi and detective even

1:04:46

as decided take another look at the then

1:04:48

came that was found in carries car

1:04:50

if you remember it had a fingerprint on when

1:04:53

they compared a little fingerprints to one of the

1:04:55

ten surprise surprise

1:04:57

they lined up it's a match

1:05:00

on december eleventh detectives placed

1:05:03

a tracker on was his car the

1:05:05

third up to alert them when ever lived

1:05:07

the road near a nice hat and

1:05:10

over the next few days detective thought multiple

1:05:12

alerts they would usually drive

1:05:15

through in his parking lot the around

1:05:17

a minute and then hundred

1:05:19

number fourteen detective dougherty called

1:05:21

live for an interview in a

1:05:23

this were start the new plan that

1:05:25

would trick live into giving them more

1:05:27

avenue during the interview

1:05:29

detective duty lied and told lives that

1:05:32

carries or mean had been discovered

1:05:34

and of course she had a big internal oh shit moment

1:05:37

they pretended like she didn't know that much about

1:05:39

the carry situation although

1:05:41

the significant brain of a

1:05:46

fast and then from remains that and

1:05:48

located the initial

1:05:50

indications remains archer is

1:05:54

or anyone you think would not hurt

1:06:00

she told dirty that see only met her

1:06:02

once she claimed that carry had

1:06:04

called her a bitch while the to pass each

1:06:06

other in the doorway they said she

1:06:08

brush that comment on

1:06:10

the hated regarding our three

1:06:12

sarver familiar with her

1:06:15

even our focus

1:06:18

exercise

1:06:22

once again live claim that she thought any

1:06:24

was behind all of the the

1:06:27

only played along with it and told her that is amy

1:06:29

was crazy enough to said dave centuries they'll

1:06:31

be crazy enough to shit

1:06:36

and she sells those hundred dollars in whitehall

1:06:38

the time so he said

1:06:44

there are certain you would be possessive

1:06:46

of days in having her so this is enough

1:06:49

to trick lives into believing that she was

1:06:51

in control the only told her that

1:06:53

the police needed her hope to collect more

1:06:55

evidence against amy and of course he happily

1:06:57

agreed and four days later lives

1:07:00

forward in an email to dodi

1:07:02

from amy in the email

1:07:04

amy confess to shooting liz the

1:07:06

keep her away from day don't

1:07:09

eat home where's that he needed information from any

1:07:11

about carried murder not the shooting

1:07:14

can a pusher first

1:07:17

, info on a carry say what she

1:07:19

did the carry and so forth like

1:07:21

that thousand thousand case

1:07:23

immensely there was more

1:07:25

specific are you ready for

1:07:27

me the trial email her back i'm

1:07:30

leaving that your course flares

1:07:32

i mean it has some you feel okay

1:07:35

, said

1:07:37

be really helpful for us simply

1:07:40

she sells gallingly so right into

1:07:42

their trap so sure

1:07:44

enough in december twenty the

1:07:47

magically got another email from amy

1:07:50

detectives opened it they found a chilling confession

1:07:53

written by lives

1:07:55

the when i met crazy carry to not stop talking

1:07:57

about dave and him being her husband

1:08:00

the try to attack me but i attacked her with a night

1:08:03

and her three to four times in the chest and

1:08:05

stomach area then took her

1:08:07

out and burned her dr

1:08:09

body in a garbage bag with clear

1:08:11

who carried out to the dumpster probably when dave

1:08:14

took out my garbage for the

1:08:16

detective time was working the never

1:08:18

the next few weeks he continued afford emails

1:08:21

the mean the certainly get

1:08:23

frustrated that the has arrested her yet

1:08:25

the cops knew that the thought of amy and dave

1:08:27

been together a drive was even crazier

1:08:30

they waited finally

1:08:32

in late january of two thousand and sixteen dave call

1:08:34

detective avis there's worry

1:08:37

they had told him that amy was actually the one

1:08:39

stocking that not only that amy

1:08:43

apparently murdered carry that

1:08:45

live currently house

1:08:47

down the heck of a was actually urged

1:08:49

dave to move in with amy the also

1:08:51

warned him to avoid lives like the plague then

1:08:54

she shared this information with him that

1:08:57

same day detective dirty business david

1:08:59

where that him down and told him the

1:09:01

truth this is definitely

1:09:03

the one stalking him and she was

1:09:05

responsible for carry disappearance they

1:09:08

also warned him that lives with highly dangerous to him

1:09:10

and his family all the news was

1:09:12

an incredible shock for day what he

1:09:14

thought have been the reality for the past few years of

1:09:16

his life at the completely shattered they've

1:09:19

moved in with amy right away

1:09:20

they didn't realize that the detected that actually kind of

1:09:22

played a trick on him too

1:09:24

because they wanted dave and amy to move in together

1:09:27

so that lizard become desperate

1:09:29

every first live called up to active duty

1:09:31

crying and angry that amy was still free

1:09:35

your partner benefited was her so

1:09:37

she gets to shoot somebody hasn't she has to kill

1:09:39

another person and then she gets to move in with damian

1:09:41

to disturb you for any rights are

1:09:44

rights are

1:09:45

literally the most upset she's been

1:09:47

this entire time of coin dave move

1:09:49

them with amy they're going her way

1:09:52

detective doubt he told me that it is more evidence

1:09:55

against amy and of course he provided

1:09:57

that she gave dodi access to her emails

1:09:59

and the

1:10:00

the he watches multiple emails from amy

1:10:02

popped up on the screen little

1:10:04

playing right into their plan

1:10:06

one of the emails mentioned the union tattoo

1:10:08

that carry had on her thigh growing area

1:10:11

we did mention carries other tattoos in her missing

1:10:13

persons flyers but her yin yang tattoo

1:10:15

had a bit the going to private area

1:10:17

and very few people knew about the

1:10:19

emailed also

1:10:20

the on that the murder took place

1:10:23

in carries car

1:10:25

now once again detectives track

1:10:27

down carries car and searched it

1:10:29

and this time the forensic investigator took

1:10:31

off the covers of the seats and

1:10:34

that's when they discovered large red

1:10:36

blood stains under the passenger

1:10:38

seat a random test

1:10:40

and the blood matched it was carries

1:10:43

why wouldn't they check this before

1:10:45

since he covers like take them off

1:10:48

the you think says it's a pretty big thing

1:10:50

to miss while i mean

1:10:52

from their perspective there is no reason

1:10:54

to necessarily do that

1:10:56

no in depth type of

1:10:58

search they sit and i mean it's she was considered

1:11:01

a missing person wearing bright you will you

1:11:03

expect that no one some he goes missing

1:11:05

that the turnover every rock and

1:11:07

look at everything but yeah i

1:11:09

mean seekers i mean they're not assuming

1:11:12

that somebody is been killed in the car

1:11:14

but i get i get your goes by adding

1:11:16

yeah as probably of and i were hurt them

1:11:18

on their mark especially her son and her mother

1:11:20

and so fucking live

1:11:22

a better if they are less out a ways

1:11:24

back in the are totally and years going by at

1:11:27

this point and meanwhile her name is just been tarnished

1:11:29

throughout all of this

1:11:31

so february twenty for someone threw a rock

1:11:33

through amy's wind up dave immediately

1:11:35

called police who use their tracker

1:11:37

to confirm that liz was the culprit

1:11:40

police arrested her but she was actually released

1:11:42

because she pled guilty and pay the fine

1:11:45

and four days later please there's

1:11:47

live with new apartment while she that work

1:11:50

it had any electronic devices that

1:11:52

they could find including multiple

1:11:54

phones that belonged to live and to

1:11:57

have carried cameras that

1:11:59

day for the the rapidly that work

1:12:01

for an unpaid the traffic violation the

1:12:03

detective walked her into an interview room

1:12:05

and told her that he wanted to talk about

1:12:08

missing persons case

1:12:10

that kind of just worked out really good for them that she

1:12:12

had already been there for an unrelated case

1:12:14

and any all her in there like oh perfect opportunity

1:12:17

to to talk to her about

1:12:19

harry yeah let's say a clip of this interview

1:12:21

with a lawyer was chair for now this

1:12:24

because he level are questions

1:12:28

or , or your house

1:12:30

that after she disappeared

1:12:32

well as you can make

1:12:35

, out your fingers

1:12:38

site or visit how was your experience

1:12:41

a grower

1:12:49

ally yeah

1:12:53

the printer no

1:12:55

i haven't i've never

1:12:57

, around her even see

1:13:00

for years and years people

1:13:02

have been sending ,

1:13:04

hundred series fictitious

1:13:07

off the ip addresses show

1:13:09

up to his house house

1:13:11

out some out have

1:13:13

any why would you create

1:13:16

all these you know i haven't trained now

1:13:18

all the because of years from

1:13:21

entering our house

1:13:22

i'm not to be accused of something i didn't feel

1:13:25

for the red i don't

1:13:28

, have my time as

1:13:30

time did anything so

1:13:33

little defensive

1:13:34

the paid for her traffic violation and she

1:13:36

was released from jail and in the meantime

1:13:38

detectives had to wait before

1:13:40

they can arrest her for carries murder in

1:13:43

you can kind of find more and hopefully

1:13:45

a body so that lives could be conducted

1:13:47

the only had one shot at putting lives

1:13:50

away for life adding that is her

1:13:52

carry depending on how well they could prosecute

1:13:54

in nobody case which is very difficult

1:13:57

without a body they're gonna need a mountain

1:13:59

of evidence the convict lives of first

1:14:01

degree murder finally hundred

1:14:03

them or twenty second two thousand teen

1:14:06

center liz holier was

1:14:08

arrested for the murder of carry arbor

1:14:11

they waved her right to a jury trial at are preliminary

1:14:13

hearing this meant that a judge would decide

1:14:15

issues guilty or not the trial was

1:14:17

that began on may tenth detectives

1:14:20

had worked quickly to build their case

1:14:22

on february first they got a huge break when they

1:14:24

found a tablet that is beth here's miss in their

1:14:26

initial searches the when i looked

1:14:28

at the tablet they found in sd card and

1:14:30

turned out that this sd card had once

1:14:33

been in blood cell phone

1:14:35

when the forensic specialists examined it he

1:14:37

saw that lives had deleted a strange

1:14:39

picture is just because it's release of on

1:14:41

a memory card doesn't mean that it's permanently god

1:14:44

this photo was a someone's tattooed

1:14:47

the decomposing foot the

1:14:50

anti turned over photos of carrots feet then

1:14:53

detectors compare the photos the tattoos matched

1:14:56

they've had killed carry and taken

1:14:58

a photo of her foot some sort

1:15:00

of trophy because that not

1:15:02

only did you take the photo carries foot tattoo

1:15:04

but she took a photo of carries hidden yin yang

1:15:06

tattoo is well

1:15:07

the same tattoo lives mentioned in her emails

1:15:10

impersonating amy this is

1:15:12

the proof that detectives were looking for

1:15:15

the trial officially began on may tenth

1:15:17

and lizards charged with first degree murder and

1:15:19

second degree arson the prosecution

1:15:21

carefully outline their case in the argue that

1:15:23

lives confronted carry a she was leaving

1:15:25

days apartment

1:15:26

then stabbed her repeatedly in the chest took

1:15:28

photos of her body and burned it before getting

1:15:31

rid of remains

1:15:32

i'm from their lives clean the car and pretending to

1:15:34

be carried a cover up for crimes

1:15:37

the argue that listed all this is a jealous

1:15:39

rage the stop at nothing to

1:15:41

try and have dave all to ourselves

1:15:43

after he murdered carry she spent years tormenting

1:15:46

day the amy and carries family her

1:15:48

own six satisfaction

1:15:51

but a lot of effort into a twisted game the

1:15:53

use bpm to try and hide or ip address

1:15:55

when she sent thousands of fake emails then

1:15:58

harassing taxis free messaging apps

1:16:00

to create fake phone numbers the

1:16:02

even move would get tax from carried the same time

1:16:04

although together

1:16:06

the now because list schedule them beforehand

1:16:08

using an app called letter me later

1:16:11

there's even use an app that deep in her voice

1:16:13

to make a fake phone call the nancy

1:16:15

or she pretended to be day

1:16:17

overall his said between twenty five

1:16:19

thousand to fifty thousand messages

1:16:22

to are victims that made it that she

1:16:24

spent over forty to fifty hours a week stalking

1:16:26

and harassing her victims there was literally

1:16:28

her fulltime job after establishing

1:16:31

little complex web of online harassment

1:16:33

and lies the prosecution turned

1:16:35

to the murder itself they

1:16:37

showed how it is fake amy emails massive

1:16:39

closely with the photo evidence they recovered the

1:16:42

corporate shown the photos of carries body that

1:16:44

list took which featured her distinctive tattoos

1:16:47

they also brought up that loses fingerprint was found

1:16:49

in carries car if it were carried

1:16:51

car he'd obviously have her own fingerprints

1:16:54

and there weren't any the

1:16:56

live clearly clean carries car after

1:16:58

the murder she just forgotten

1:17:00

to get that one last fingerprint

1:17:03

next explain how is disposed of the body

1:17:06

photo she took of a burnt tarp know the size

1:17:08

of a person but you probably used to burn

1:17:10

carries remains they're it

1:17:12

testified that list smelled like smoke or something

1:17:14

burnt in the fall or winter twenty twelve right

1:17:17

around the time carry disappeared this

1:17:19

is no stranger to fair he

1:17:22

burnt down her own house just to keep

1:17:24

dave in our life the heartless

1:17:26

so persistent and her mission that she didn't think

1:17:28

twice about killing more innocent

1:17:30

pets the didn't care about animals

1:17:32

and she didn't really care about people either when

1:17:35

the most heartbreaking part of the trial came and amy

1:17:37

read out one of was as emails the

1:17:40

description of carries murder that list sent

1:17:42

under amy's name part of the letter

1:17:44

said when i killed terry you know

1:17:46

she begged me to call day that work the

1:17:49

she begged me to talk to her family before she

1:17:51

died that really devastating

1:17:53

for carries family to hear that nancy

1:17:56

sobbed in the courtroom he couldn't

1:17:58

bear to hear how her daughters moments

1:18:00

where then it was the defenses turn

1:18:03

the try to argue that there is no proof carry had

1:18:05

actually been murdered without a body that

1:18:08

all the evidence the prosecution had was circumstantial

1:18:11

the judge couldn't can fix lives on that

1:18:14

that attorney said she was on trial for murder

1:18:16

not harassment the only thing the prosecution

1:18:18

prove that live with a stalker that

1:18:21

didn't mean that they successfully prove that she

1:18:23

was also a murderer the

1:18:25

judge wasn't convinced by the defense's

1:18:28

case and all the evidence pointed

1:18:30

to live murdering carry in cold

1:18:32

blood on may twenty fourth

1:18:34

two thousand and seventeen shana

1:18:36

elizabeth collier was found guilty of first

1:18:38

degree murder and second degree arson susan

1:18:41

for life in prison and she showed

1:18:43

no remorse or motion with

1:18:46

handcuffed and let out of the courtroom

1:18:49

harry killer it finally been brought to justice the

1:18:52

family crowd and hugged one another after the bird and

1:18:55

loser never build a her anyone again they'll

1:18:57

their hearts were broken the verdict would

1:18:59

never bring back they're beautiful daughter carry

1:19:02

get a life sentence now that she also facing

1:19:05

videos that month period very

1:19:09

nice to meet friends

1:19:11

and allies i'm not having his

1:19:13

mother there and ,

1:19:15

of the people that was her we

1:19:18

have to live with the night

1:19:20

we absolutely certain

1:19:22

someone someone all this

1:19:24

happened dave and amy remained good

1:19:26

friends and they still tell parents are kids

1:19:29

years later david feels a massive

1:19:31

amount of guilt the carried that

1:19:34

the appeared on multiple tv programs about

1:19:36

the case because he believed he needs to help

1:19:39

share carry story i'm

1:19:41

under nancy does not hold any anger towards the

1:19:43

days she believes that he was also victim

1:19:45

of live with evil like carry

1:19:48

was the and her husband

1:19:50

the puck the detectives who thought carried

1:19:52

case and they actually are so

1:19:54

closer than they consider them to be family members from

1:19:57

where she is still serving her son

1:20:00

at the nebraska correctional center for what

1:20:02

then in work nebraska in

1:20:04

two thousand and seventeen her defense lawyer

1:20:06

received anonymous emails threatening

1:20:08

was his children's lives you

1:20:11

can probably guess the most likely sent

1:20:13

these herself from a contraband found

1:20:15

in print then faded active

1:20:18

visited the president to speak with another inmate

1:20:20

that inmate told them that lives was insane

1:20:23

and that she demanded that the the inmates

1:20:25

call her harry well

1:20:27

that's fucking they

1:20:29

filed an appeal to have her conviction overturned

1:20:32

and it was denied into

1:20:33

the knee pain as if she claims she's

1:20:35

innocent of course of all of course

1:20:38

psychopath meant if her daughter now

1:20:40

lives with a loving aunts and her son

1:20:42

lives with his father and her you

1:20:44

know way better off without her in their lives

1:20:47

that carries on is now married

1:20:49

and he end up falling in his mother's footsteps

1:20:52

the went to school for data science and currently works

1:20:54

as a software engineer remarks

1:20:56

mrs mother dearly every day

1:20:59

any hope that he's making her proud

1:21:02

and i know dinner but it's horrible

1:21:04

this poor guy losses mother and and and

1:21:06

insists it's like happenstance scenario

1:21:09

it could have very much never happen

1:21:12

wrong place wrong time literally yeah just

1:21:14

happen to be leaving as list came in and saw her

1:21:16

like out i mean it isn't such a casual relationship

1:21:18

with him feel like just

1:21:21

what are they

1:21:21

camp is why did she get so mad about

1:21:23

carry it's almost like

1:21:25

that day when she was trying to get in and he was

1:21:27

like you're given have to wait i'm on a date

1:21:29

with some around that are made her so

1:21:31

mad and seen heard old message

1:21:34

has triggered something it

1:21:36

wasn't that serious of a relationship carried in even

1:21:38

want anything serious is is terrible

1:21:40

how this whole thing played out i mean i think there's a

1:21:42

lot more going on with lives clearly as an interest

1:21:44

price and mental the issue there that

1:21:46

his crew had psychopath

1:21:48

into forget or history the fact that he

1:21:51

could have literally killed her fabian

1:21:53

the past it seems very likely

1:21:55

that she did yeah the she the killer

1:21:57

like through and through a screen yeah

1:22:00

well while we are in office it

1:22:02

really is

1:22:03

that is going to be it for us today guys we

1:22:05

hope that you found this case as into the as

1:22:08

a we did just

1:22:10

unbelievable how these things happen how

1:22:12

people can be truly so evil to

1:22:14

the core

1:22:16

and just go to the the extent

1:22:18

and lengths that lives dead in order to try

1:22:20

to pull this off and i mean

1:22:22

luckily she was in not the brightest

1:22:24

and mean a lot of many ups and the process

1:22:26

so they were it you know want

1:22:28

forces able to figure it out eventually an

1:22:30

eerie able to get to the bottom of it but

1:22:32

it seems like she really thought she was gonna get away with it

1:22:34

to six she got away with the that the person

1:22:37

right that's that's an accurate i think that's

1:22:39

probably what her brain with things to like

1:22:41

i got away with it before i know of on almanack

1:22:43

do it again so yeah let us know what your guys

1:22:46

thoughts are on this case

1:22:47

that is it for us today make sure you're subscribed

1:22:49

with on youtube definitely watch us on either

1:22:52

spotify youtube so you can see a lot of the overlay

1:22:54

an actual i interrogation footage

1:22:57

of this upset if you're a beautiful new that

1:22:59

yes please check it out or thoughts

1:23:01

on it and you to blair

1:23:03

fowler for it is beautiful design

1:23:06

we are so with happy with

1:23:10

when until he in your mind

1:23:12

a

1:23:31

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