0:00

this podcast, explores themes of

0:02

murder and rape listener discretion

0:04

is fishing

0:05

that

0:12

a serial killer is it worth mountains

0:15

of washington offer? these

0:22

i i

0:24

women cuz it was

0:26

i had a problem with killing

0:28

women back then figure

0:30

that is illness and i don't know

0:47

nineteen eighty

0:49

two the strangled body

0:51

a fifteen year old monday have club

0:53

is some hello done and seattle's green river

0:56

a month later and address three

0:59

more bodies are found in the water then

1:01

another in the long grass on

1:03

the riverbank police confirm

1:06

that all five young women homicide

1:08

system several ,

1:11

marsha chapman cynthia

1:13

heinz open mills

1:15

and wendy caufield have all

1:17

been strangled to death death

1:20

discovered that all of them disappeared

1:22

from a notorious stretch of sizes

1:24

were women so their bodies for said in

1:26

the shadow a seattle seats seattle still

1:30

reeling from the reeling became king

1:33

jr smith worst king

1:35

are realized side young

1:37

and and have been killed in the same wall killed

1:40

weeks of agenda as ,

1:42

serial killer and hey i'm

1:45

that to michelle would and this is mind

1:47

of a monster ted bundy and

1:49

the green river two episodes

1:51

he had his

2:01

then body starts showing up in seattle's

2:03

green river

2:04

in the summer of eighty two it

2:06

had been eight years since ted bundy

2:08

terrorize king county i

2:10

want to know what it's like when in new nightmare

2:12

begins nightmare begins city still corrupt

2:15

with fear

2:16

the get a first hand account i talked to

2:18

he

2:20

an attorney

2:20

the brief and king county

2:23

okay so let's start with you telling a see

2:25

you are and what your relationship is

2:27

to the green river murder case

2:30

in nineteen eighty two i had graduated

2:32

from high school and i lived

2:34

the karma which is just a little south

2:36

of seattle for it came to

2:38

school at the university of washington in the

2:40

fall of nineteen eighty two and that

2:42

was about a month after the first

2:44

bodies were found in the green river and

2:46

i was in college and then law school from

2:49

nineteen eighty two until nineteen eighty nineteen

2:51

and during and large portion of that time

2:54

green her and the murders

2:56

were front page news wow

2:58

thrived and on a scary

3:00

ridgeway prosecution from two

3:02

thousand and one until he was

3:04

sentenced at the end of two thousand three

3:07

i was a king county prosecutor that

3:10

did you feel afraid because you'd

3:12

certainly the demographic you're the age

3:15

and you're a female

3:16

what about feeling

3:18

i spent the first couple of years in a sorority into

3:20

school on the sorority it was still very

3:22

much really and from the ted bundy

3:25

murders that had occurred in of just

3:27

up the street frankly from where i lived sell

3:30

the disappearance of any young women

3:32

alarmed the community you know

3:34

feet even though it turned out that a lot

3:36

the victims were women who were

3:38

engaged in another profession

3:40

there was no reason that necessarily think that people

3:44

like me young women or necessarily

3:47

outside the to potential victim pool

3:49

and it must have been particularly

3:51

scary because as you say you guys

3:54

are coming off the heels of the ted bundy

3:56

murders i mean you're

3:58

twelve years during the seventies

3:59

the seventy four killings of i'm cracked and

4:02

now you're awesome college and there's another

4:04

cereal

4:05

right it guy was

4:07

and can bundy courses also

4:09

front karma which happened to be where i grew

4:11

up so you know the knowledge about

4:14

these serial killers to and know

4:16

people didn't really understand what was happening

4:19

because it's are there aren't that many serial

4:21

killers of course bundy was so notorious

4:24

so it was still very much been

4:26

on the front of mind for lot of people

4:28

even by the time the bodies were starting

4:30

to be sound along degree

4:31

let you need to do you feel like security

4:34

in front of parenting was ramps up during

4:36

that time i'm not so sure about parenting

4:39

there was a great focus on making sure that we

4:41

lived in these big sorority houses and

4:44

that all the doors were always lived there was

4:46

just a lot more security than their head then in

4:48

the recent past and then of course there's a

4:50

lot of parties and

4:51

again just as a focus

4:53

on get off from the guys

4:55

in the fraternities to make sure the girls got home safely

4:58

that people were walked all the way up to their doors

5:00

seem to go inside their door those

5:02

kinds of things

5:04

it's natural for the public and

5:06

particularly young women like patty to

5:08

be scared what's it like for

5:10

those in law enforcement what's

5:12

it like to realize there is a

5:14

nother serial killer in seattle

5:17

explore these questions i get in touch with say

5:19

brooks

5:21

robbing her unique perspective at the heart

5:23

of the hunt for the green river killer say

5:26

what is your connection to the green river

5:28

kill

5:28

case i'm retired

5:31

member of the king county sheriff's office

5:34

and i was one of the abysmal investigators

5:37

on

5:37

green river homicide case

5:39

a psychologist i have an interest in serious

5:41

crimes but it's academic

5:44

what made you want to go out there and be on the from

5:46

line working in law enforcement

5:48

i knew in high school that wanted to

5:50

do something in sociology

5:52

don't you know life happens i got

5:55

pregnant dropped out of college and

5:57

my roommate in college at the time

6:01

ended up what working for the king county sheriff's

6:03

office been it she said you know the king county sheriff's

6:05

offices hiring i'm wanted

6:08

to try and get on i applied

6:10

to the written test took

6:12

the

6:13

the past

6:14

and i guess the rest is history i

6:17

was hired in october

6:19

nineteen seventy eight and

6:22

in my academy class there were twenty

6:24

six recruits and

6:26

i was the only woman

6:28

in one of two black people who were in the

6:30

academy class

6:31

really yes and

6:33

at the end of that

6:35

three month period i graduated

6:38

added the academy at at the number

6:40

two spot

6:41

that's awesome i definitely want to talk

6:43

more about your experience in the sheriff's office

6:45

but i'm fascinated by this moment

6:47

when king county becomes aware

6:49

that there's another serial killer out

6:51

there

6:52

what was your introduction to the case

6:55

i'm i can remember it was a hot

6:57

sunday afternoon and i'm at home looking

7:00

the the then i see

7:03

oh man detectors are out in the green

7:05

river

7:05

and there's multiple victims

7:07

there

7:08

though i knew going in that

7:10

the next day was gonna be busy when i got

7:13

to work the next morning they hadn't

7:15

had an opportunity to identify

7:18

any of the victims at that point so

7:20

they were trying to pack as evidence

7:22

and evidence can remember thinking

7:24

okay this three victims

7:27

found at this site and then

7:29

there had been to other victims found there

7:31

within the previous month further

7:34

downstream so we thought okay

7:37

flute it's a serial killer, and

7:39

end

7:41

up identifying

7:42

a few of the early victims in one

7:44

of them was marcia chapman,

7:47

and i'll say her name in memory

7:49

her i also worked

7:51

at shortly before she

7:53

was killed with her as her as

7:56

i had met her and had talk with her

7:58

and that was

7:59

hard for me i

8:02

wanted to help identify

8:05

who had done that to are so that

8:07

wasn't a commitment of mine

8:09

the detected like stay motivated

8:12

by a personal connection to the case it's

8:14

hard to believe that it is almost twenty

8:16

years before the killers com

8:19

why was

8:19

every which way the green river killer

8:22

so hard to catch i

8:24

returned to say bronx

8:26

that challenging part of the early

8:28

investigation and subsequent

8:30

parts of the investigation is

8:33

first of all they were run away so they

8:35

weren't reported missing back missing that

8:37

era if you are runaway reaches the

8:39

runway they're also wasn't also

8:42

system in place

8:43

where should you find

8:46

the remains of someone how

8:48

could you identify them

8:49

what how do you identify these girls

8:51

as sex workers and runway

8:53

primarily it's to dental records or

8:56

fingerprints when we had

8:58

missing people they would just be missing

9:00

at that time didn't have the protocols in

9:03

place where if someone was reported

9:05

missing you try and track down the

9:07

dentist so you can get that information

9:09

and have it on file should

9:11

the person

9:12

need to be identified so green

9:15

river homicide investigation tanks protocol

9:17

in those to a specific areas

9:20

wow so how did you identify

9:22

them before that

9:23

if they had a criminal history that's

9:25

primarily how we were identified

9:28

them his successors

9:30

or for runaways

9:35

at first i'm a little surprised that protocols

9:37

are all meet scenes in response to the green

9:40

river killer this ted bundy

9:42

abductions but ,

9:44

it makes perfect sense almost

9:46

all of bundy's victims are high profile

9:48

disappearances the girls are

9:50

only gonna matter of hours before

9:53

the reported missing sparking a flurry

9:55

of police and media interest

9:59

polar opposite runaways who

10:02

are already missing but hasn't been reporting

10:04

the disappearances

10:05

easily

10:07

when approaching vice attention the other

10:09

completely bypass is it is a

10:11

striking and fundamental gary

10:15

ridge with message from ripple the surface

10:17

had bendy operates with his last

10:20

never more so than in the winter of ninety

10:23

seven

10:23

well they're still looking for

10:25

a murder suspect seat or monday who celebrated

10:27

new years eve by escaping from a colorado

10:30

jails undersheriff robert

10:32

hearts as a whole have been cutting the ceiling

10:34

of his cell for a light fixture bunny

10:36

apparently pushed the light fixture out

10:38

climb through the crawl space to a jailers apartments

10:41

and then walked out heart says it

10:43

is a solid steel cel except

10:45

for that small whole wheat

10:48

stop rewind and

10:53

he said he said that apply

10:55

lost enough weight this is whispers

10:58

basically the my dear i could crawl

11:00

out that them and it's an escape

11:03

from prison

11:04

in our last episode larry

11:06

anderson who was friends with ted bundy

11:08

in salt lake city told me bundy

11:11

whispered an escape plan in his ear

11:13

on a visit to see him and a utah prison there

11:15

is no logic that can explain how

11:18

he's been able to execute the same

11:20

plan and a colorado prison

11:23

clearly he has escape on his mind

11:25

every second

11:26

he's behind bars

11:28

despite a state wide search and colorado

11:30

bundy manages to flee

11:32

the makes his way to florida he

11:34

has only one thing the

11:38

stock the local

11:39

is inserted his next victim the comes up

11:41

empty

11:43

finally on january fifteenth nineteen

11:45

seventy eight he discovers the

11:47

unlocked door to a sorority

11:49

house

11:58

killer

11:59

or at the chi omega sorority

12:02

house police say he simply walked

12:04

in through an unlocked door they say

12:06

he was armed with a heavy law he

12:08

club and then strangled to death twenty

12:11

euro lisa levy and twenty one euro

12:13

margaret no one at least one of them was

12:15

raped then he brutally beat three

12:17

more sleeping coeds karen chandler

12:19

and cassie kleiner cheryl and thomas

12:22

was severely beaten in her apartment six

12:24

blocks away their conditions today

12:26

fair to serious

12:28

the needed shocking frenzied a

12:30

car to the kyle make a sorority house

12:32

rocks tallahassee and detectors

12:34

are wrong footed by the brutal random

12:36

nature of the crime as a result

12:39

bundy still at large three weeks later

12:42

on february ninth he had ducks

12:44

and murders twelve years

12:46

kimberly lose she's

12:48

sunday's final victim police

12:50

arrested this thirty one year old man after man high

12:52

speed chase wednesday morning and pensacola florida

12:55

he claimed the claimed florida state university law

12:57

student at now he has been positively

12:59

identified as business kp theodore

13:01

pundit a suspect in the rape murder

13:04

cases of at least thirty six young women

13:09

volkswagen beetle it ironic

13:12

that bundy isn't another he'd have a nice

13:14

his reign of terror and to an end

13:32

like only before him

13:35

geary midway on

13:38

the his victim profile is different

13:40

making it clear early on that he isn't

13:42

just a copy cat killer were

13:45

ted bundy sought out mostly

13:47

college girls prowling university

13:49

campuses and streets around sorority

13:51

houses gary ridgeway tix

13:53

ridgeway different route sneering sex

13:55

workers from seattle

13:56

city neighborhoods

13:58

i asked to mosque yeah the author

14:00

of the search for the green river killer about

14:03

the area ridgeway is hunting in

14:06

can you tell us a little bit about pacific

14:08

highway the street life

14:10

sir well the socially is

14:12

is down the road around the state or

14:14

two from alaska has a was a gold

14:16

rush session so people

14:18

science the city to spend the money is

14:21

so the pacific rim without the strap

14:24

for , airport is basically

14:26

became a prostitution strip and

14:29

so is that a lot of motels and hotels

14:31

topless joint said you could try

14:34

to visualize almost like baker sometimes

14:36

that was essentially is a long stretch but

14:38

basically the girls lost it at

14:40

night and so they were girls galore

14:43

i mean that was once you put finances

14:46

girls at every street corner if

14:48

you stopped at you stopped bit sit on the hood

14:50

or your costs you know they'd sachet

14:52

to the window and that's what it was late

14:55

at night or

14:56

over twenty years after gary ridgeway

14:58

began abducting and murdering women off

15:00

the pacific highway

15:02

prosecutors bringing the case against him record

15:04

every word he says as evidence

15:06

image clear

15:08

the describes meeting women on the strip and

15:10

how he feels

15:12

those usually they're either she tech red

15:14

line at the around the bus stop

15:17

get out and walk over testament

15:19

vostok live walk out

15:22

the i picked up

15:23

the relays or , i killed him on

15:26

the bus stop and lion lion

15:28

use always the word

15:31

ladies for prostitutes their separate

15:33

from working class

15:35

this to me like , lot

15:37

of ladies ladies are prostitutes

15:40

are are ,

15:42

man jobs and that's

15:45

why i didn't tell a woman there were a

15:47

work in the

15:48

as the hunt for the green river killer takes

15:50

off the victim profile isn't

15:53

the only difference

15:53

between had bundy and dairy ridgeway

15:56

ominously ridgeway is also far

15:58

more prolific

15:59

what had been he's killing spree between nineteen

16:02

seventy three and nineteen said before results

16:04

in each region the

16:06

end of nineteen eighty kill just six months

16:09

after the first body is found in a green river

16:11

ridgeway has taken thirteen on

16:14

earth

16:14

king county police set up

16:16

green river tasks

16:19

in investigated unit dedicated entirely

16:21

to catching the killer

16:23

the task forces green jackets become a

16:25

regular an iconic image on tv news

16:27

in the eighties every time another body

16:29

is discovered investigators are broadcast

16:32

hacking the way to the undergrowth searching for

16:34

evidence i talked to say brooks

16:36

about been on the green river to

16:39

hey how was been on a taskforce

16:41

different from working a more routine investigation

16:44

often times when you're detective you have

16:46

a caseload and you work

16:48

on your case of and , else

16:50

has a caseload and every now and then you make

16:52

compared notes because something

16:55

made p an interest

16:57

or may be like will do something similar

16:59

to yours than is to mine this

17:02

particular case everybody on

17:04

it was focused on month in

17:07

the person who's doing this and so there was

17:09

a big camaraderie working

17:12

on the task force the green river task

17:14

force

17:15

the charges investigation the

17:17

of resources

17:18

money and manpower one

17:20

of the priorities is to form a suspect

17:22

profound

17:23

that the investigation which which i'm

17:25

fascinated

17:26

that need a serial killer

17:28

dude had been the and carry the to

17:30

his formative years first i talk to

17:32

new york times bestseller rebecca more

17:35

the kid was born illegitimate

17:38

and his mother louise left

17:41

him at

17:41

home and vermont putting up for adoption

17:44

the story is that her father

17:47

made her go back and pick up ted

17:50

so there is least three or four months

17:52

there when he was abandoned

17:54

try out you could say but then

17:56

the first near as he lifted his grandparents'

17:58

house with his mother

18:00

it's really hard to sort out with somebody

18:02

like

18:02

monday what is smith and what is

18:04

true but one of the myths is that

18:06

he was told his mother

18:08

was as mr and his

18:11

grandparents because their fear

18:13

of the shame and stigma of their daughter having

18:16

an illegitimate baby his grandparents

18:18

had told friends are we at a late in life

18:20

baby you know but

18:22

something happened and when

18:24

he was forty years old here's

18:27

relative sent ted

18:28

the matter in a way to com a washington

18:31

to live

18:32

that the other the really

18:34

important first a new information was

18:36

that his grams

18:37

father who he lived with was a violent

18:39

person swung cats

18:42

pornography was

18:44

involved

18:44

the domestic violence and that

18:46

grandmother had been institutionalized

18:49

more than once said have electric shock treatments

18:52

so there was a lot of dysfunction and mental

18:54

illness in that family where he

18:56

was the first years and can

18:58

what happened after that so ten and his mother

19:01

some west and since she

19:03

married and had four children and

19:05

i've always thought boy that must have been

19:08

the talk for ten because for

19:10

a long time at binges he and his mother

19:12

and suddenly you know yet

19:14

a stepfather that he didn't really

19:16

have anything in common with

19:18

he was blue collar and in

19:20

old the very thing kid

19:22

hated most was being blue collar

19:25

that wasn't alive he wanted a

19:27

one of the people i found that never been interviewed

19:29

was kids best friend when they eight

19:31

nine ten years old and

19:33

they live near care and she has stories

19:36

in the ted would take little girls other

19:38

words piano or

19:40

you know he loves to scare people eat hide

19:43

and then jump out you know if there

19:45

was always something kind of odd

19:47

the show was about about

19:50

ten

19:52

bunnies disturbed childhood certainly

19:54

sit some ideas about really like

19:56

trauma contributing to violent behavior later

19:58

in life how the question

20:00

of nature versus nurture is outdated

20:04

really we should be talking about nature and

20:06

nurture

20:07

genetic factors are incredibly important

20:10

by

20:11

we need to remember that it's only in very

20:13

rare cases that a combination

20:15

of jeans and early life trauma

20:18

results in this

20:19

level and violent behavior

20:21

the sea of juri ridgeway fits the mold

20:23

i discuss his up bring

20:24

with terry michelle

20:27

tell me how you new gary ridgeway gary

20:30

was

20:30

the brother of one of the guys that

20:32

i knew very well grades and

20:35

we saw walk to school together greg

20:37

was going with the girl that was one of my best

20:39

friends

20:40

did you live on the same street or the same area

20:43

the do the same area we lived on

20:45

one seventy six and they lived on one

20:47

seventy says not exactly the same

20:50

neighborhood the tennis just the same

20:51

the area close enough we can all walk

20:54

together but you know he

20:56

was he was very quiet in those days

20:58

and i mean really and truly you'd hardly know he was

21:00

there he was a scandal a quiet

21:02

guy

21:03

how old was he when you first knew him i

21:05

would have been that fifteen so he was friendly

21:07

sixteen

21:09

when i first met him

21:11

and then he'll seventeen

21:13

i think my sister

21:14

ahead a little crush on him she

21:17

was sitting outside the principal's

21:19

office for being in trouble one day

21:21

and , was sitting out there in the hallway as

21:23

well and silver principal

21:26

said you most in detention after

21:28

school so they did and

21:31

you know start mean it can a dark out on the way

21:33

home and so

21:34

he says i'm going to walk you home

21:36

because

21:38

dark out here and in all at once

21:40

you to have to walk my or so

21:41

can we will buy a lot of would you have to go

21:43

about almost a half a mile by

21:45

woods and it was pretty frightening

21:47

in any time soap be by

21:50

yourself at night would have been a ,

21:52

for me or anybody says so

21:54

he walked her home is that the curator books

21:56

and everything oh my that is surf

21:59

studies though but that now when i think

22:01

about how she walked home

22:03

with him now you think about maybe one of

22:05

us could have been his first victim back in

22:07

those days you know you never know i

22:11

don't know how old he was when he started

22:13

killing women but said have been so

22:16

with someone was in my family

22:19

and that would have been horrible the

22:21

hitting on your sister do you think did he ever

22:23

thing for the girls at that age and sure

22:25

he must have heard of either loved him or

22:27

hate and i'm i'm not sure which you know

22:30

probably a love hate relationship is what

22:32

i guess

22:34

his mom

22:35

my mom and her friend

22:37

would go to the p t a meetings at

22:40

school and his mom would come

22:43

and , had a beehive hairdo

22:46

and makeup

22:48

like nobody else isn't in rent

22:51

and

22:51

short short skirts

22:53

high heels and everything and

22:55

they all have more just be

22:57

oh my god who is that

22:59

it's of did you meet his mother i never

23:01

miss her

23:02

i did not meet her i

23:04

, her one time though she was out order

23:06

for jos at my girlfriend's house next door

23:09

she was out on her porch and she was screaming

23:12

at her husband just yelling at him and that's

23:14

the only time the only

23:16

saw her

23:18

at all but she's really scream at the top

23:20

of our lungs and him

23:21

where did a strict house

23:23

i think their mother did all the punishing i

23:26

think she was the one that really does run

23:28

house

23:29

i've heard that his dad was kind of tough

23:31

finding as well but i think is it really

23:33

was some overall i'm

23:35

gary ridgeway his demeanor as a young man

23:37

certainly doesn't give any clues about who held

23:39

the com being shy or

23:41

quiet is most definitely not

23:43

concern

23:44

so far so normal

23:46

but in this clip ridgeway talk

23:48

to investigators about his feelings

23:50

toward his mother they're not warm

23:52

and fuzzy clean

23:55

think about having sex

23:58

when for

23:59

fifteen i think i'd see around

24:02

sunbathing and needs is a

24:04

fantasy of wanted to have

24:06

sex kutcher of his body

24:09

have show me show to have sex hum

24:13

majesty each other's engine and she's

24:16

loved or have loved your body and

24:19

is the do some way to defile

24:21

what she's always loved

24:24

me be slicer offer some

24:26

be file or and her parents

24:28

to her more than forty

24:31

and meal

24:33

the criminal psychologist wrong

24:35

unscripted recordings like this one of

24:37

ridgeway are fascinating but

24:39

the question of nature and nurture can be misleading

24:42

in it's simplicity

24:44

when we compare bundy and rich ways formative

24:46

years there are similarities particularly

24:49

dysfunction in the relationships with their mothers

24:51

that is a small piece of the puzzle

24:53

there to be no argument however about where

24:56

they grew up

24:57

yeah com tn as a child and

24:59

in king county might be an ingredient

25:02

that made them so

25:03

what are your thoughts about how and

25:05

why king county was home to to serial

25:07

killers at once i mean

25:09

you don't think it was something like the on beyond landscape

25:12

of the time the police things

25:14

would agree

25:15

that

25:16

i agree is a useful but i don't think

25:18

isn't a water where

25:20

the cool a years eliminate or the why

25:23

you know you some people think that's

25:25

because there are a lot of was here of people

25:27

live outdoors and inside that's a breeding

25:30

places i would disagree in on

25:32

i took his more you've got individuals

25:34

of the city neurologic too long as an

25:37

adult environment system

25:42

putting a family which

25:45

may already have the genetic makeup secure

25:47

then any influence king county house

25:49

on them hasn't come from the mountains and forests

25:52

it's from the neighborhoods they grew up in

25:55

hillary rochelle grew up in the same neighborhood

25:57

as ridgeway and confirming exists

25:59

we would it was

26:00

the i grew up right up the hill

26:02

from sea tac airport

26:04

you know when we were grown up winning even think

26:06

about prostitutes or anything but then

26:08

after

26:08

that at a high school me started seeing

26:10

more and more the area then i got more cd

26:13

i was working a boeing and i'd

26:15

come home from work and are you see the

26:17

girls walk and up and down the street he

26:19

went to wendy's you can sit in their window

26:22

there

26:22

in watch the girls work

26:24

perhaps the nature of gary rich

26:27

ways crimes

26:28

the personally a reaction to both his mother

26:31

and growing up by the pacific highway east

26:34

the on this trip that marine all var

26:36

is working in april nineteen eighty three the

26:38

haven't been long since we moved out of the house

26:41

and she still works sister the family restaurant

26:43

what murray family doesn't know is that she's

26:45

got a second job working on the street

26:47

for her boyfriend is also her pin

26:50

on april thirtieth he watches as murray

26:52

gets into a red pickup truck

26:53

the noted is a distinctive patch a primer

26:56

on the pavement murray's boyfriend him

26:58

foes the try to keep an eye on marine but

27:01

he loses it at it at light he

27:03

doesn't come back that night or even the next

27:05

day

27:06

the mufti and reported on the disappear

27:08

murray malvo stag

27:10

one in found a pimp then he says you better

27:13

tell me my daughter is or where

27:15

you saw it's well the last team

27:17

was a pickup picked her up and they turn

27:19

left up to heal and basically

27:21

she's never seen again so for the dad

27:23

says you take me for you

27:25

saw this sucks so they go driving around the

27:27

neighborhood looking for the truck to the

27:29

find it they see they pickup truck

27:32

the house well it turns out a d ended

27:34

his juri ridgeway sounds so they go towards

27:36

least detectors are dispatched

27:38

to the house they take to which way and

27:40

of course he shrugs off the allegations

27:43

the local police detective files report

27:46

that it isn't shared with the county homicide

27:48

unit until months later the

27:51

opportunity to add ridgeway to the list

27:53

of suspects less than a year

27:55

into the two decade long hunt for him is

27:58

overlooked

27:59

when murray

27:59

missing she's one of which waste

28:02

first twenty or so victim

28:04

it is believed he killed around seventy

28:06

women in total so

28:08

many lives could have been saved if he'd been

28:10

thoroughly investigated at this point

28:12

what else is it that gets him off the hook i

28:15

ask patty ekes what he's like in person

28:18

here the first time we met him i'd only seen him in court

28:20

up until that point and he was so

28:22

incredibly unimpressive to be honest

28:25

mean he's not only not physically

28:27

very

28:28

the big but he

28:30

was also

28:32

farming and

28:35

how

28:36

or non threatening and is probably the wrong

28:39

word but you can't goofy i guess is what

28:41

i would say and i think that nobody

28:43

really

28:43

anticipated that because again

28:46

what they say about serial killers is most of the time

28:48

they're highly intelligent and

28:50

i remember it we all did kind of looked at each other's

28:52

prosecutors and more like ah that's the

28:54

guy eluded you for twenty years cause

28:56

she's like thomas iraq ridgeway

28:59

might be dumb as iraq but is all american

29:02

blue collar credentials and unassuming

29:04

demeanor get some of the hofland

29:06

police come calling about murray more var

29:08

he's left

29:09

free a key punch why

29:12

would

29:12

kill pew and one day in other words what

29:14

were the urges in terms of

29:16

what you're feeling that they had to be

29:18

different from on are times when you would only

29:20

kill maybe once a week or once

29:23

every couple

29:23

and i urge to kill my

29:26

need to kill

29:28

over our nine of

29:30

logic and , one time i'm i'm

29:33

one or two hours later he

29:36

was early in our son went back out to

29:38

same place and noah's acts and

29:40

i don't know if i did kill two and one day one i'm

29:43

on my to kill i know i killed one one

29:45

n one one day in on the record

29:48

years to done to to wanted to the spirit

29:50

wanted same day so it's possible

29:52

i would have to the went back out

29:54

look at his early enough he's only nine

29:57

o'clock at night i'd rather go out for another hour

29:59

and look for another one the

30:02

public is gripped by fear

30:05

investigators are out of ideas

30:07

and this story is all over the news

30:10

king county is desperate for desperate break in the

30:12

case

30:13

what happens next

30:14

save everything

30:22

green river task force detective bob

30:24

capital receives a letter from a wannabe

30:27

consultants the letter

30:29

has come from a cell on death row in florida

30:39

next time as the green river killers body

30:41

count keeps claiming a look at the

30:43

public cry in a city under siege

30:46

explore what's going on with bundy

30:48

the offer to help cross the case

30:51

kind of a monster ted bundy and

30:53

the green river killer if bush you

30:55

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