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your toes west. I

2:07

think grief is like a relief valve

2:10

to these little micro aches, these

2:12

paper cuts that build up over

2:14

time when we start to name

2:16

them and go, oh

2:18

man, actually that was a massive loss that

2:20

I missed my mom's 70th birthday. And

2:23

my mom has been such a significant influence in my

2:25

life and I didn't get to celebrate her. And

2:27

instead of just going get over it Sarah, like other

2:30

people that have bigger pains, I'm

2:32

going, no, I actually need to give this space

2:34

and time in my life to grieve, to sit

2:36

in the sadness of it, to

2:38

name the limitation of having so many kids

2:40

and having this crazy surprise pregnancy and having

2:42

a broken ankle, to name that and go,

2:44

this is actually really hard. And

2:47

for me, it means to do something with that

2:49

grief, to let that grief be productive so it doesn't

2:51

build up and I just keep pushing it to the

2:53

wayside until it starts to show up in other ways.

2:57

Hello and welcome to the Minimalist Moms podcast.

2:59

Most of us struggle to admit that we

3:02

have limitations, let alone actually rejoicing in them.

3:04

However, my guest today, author Sarah

3:06

Haggerty has learned how to better

3:09

recognize and accept her

3:11

boundaries and limitations. In

3:13

today's conversation, we explore how

3:15

idealism, while often celebrated, can

3:17

impede personal growth, fostering

3:19

dissatisfaction and burnout. We

3:22

also discuss how grieving the loss

3:24

of certain expectations and embracing our limits

3:26

can ultimately lead to greater repentance

3:28

and peace. For those

3:30

of you that are new around here, I do

3:33

release bonus episodes that serve a niche part of

3:35

my audience. I have listeners of all faith backgrounds

3:37

that listen to some audio. This

3:39

episode is coming from a Christian perspective, so if

3:41

that's something that doesn't fit what you're looking for,

3:44

check out the other episode that dropped this week

3:46

with Renee Bennett or join me back here next

3:48

Tuesday for a conversation that you don't wanna miss.

3:53

And with that, let's get into this episode with

3:55

Sarah Haggerty. Sarah,

4:01

thanks so much for joining me today on the Minimalist

4:04

Moms podcast. Oh, I'm so

4:06

grateful to be here. I love your work. Oh,

4:08

thanks so much. Well, I'm excited to talk about

4:10

your new book. It's called The Gift of Limitations.

4:12

So I was really excited to see this title

4:14

because I'm 35 now. And

4:17

I don't know why it took me that long to realize that I can't do

4:19

it all. That's okay. I

4:22

think 35 is actually the magic number for that. Oh,

4:24

so I've heard. So I've heard. A lot of my

4:26

friends are in their 40s and they have said, that's

4:28

when I started reevaluating everything when I was 35. 35

4:32

to 37. It

4:34

feels like there's a magic number there. Yeah, yeah.

4:36

Okay. Well, I'm in good

4:38

company. But before we get into the conversation about this

4:40

book, why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself? All

4:43

right. Well, I am a writer. I

4:46

oftentimes say I'm a moonlighter as a writer because

4:48

I write in very small margins. I've got seven

4:50

kids. I have a 20 year old all the

4:52

way down to a very surprised four year old.

4:55

We're still getting over that surprise and she's the

4:57

most wonderful blessing. So with

4:59

seven kids and four of ours are adopted.

5:01

I've got a super full life that

5:04

guard my margins pretty vigilantly. So writing

5:06

falls into that space, but it's also

5:09

super life giving. This is my fourth

5:11

book, The Gift of Limitations. And

5:13

it's a passion of mine to write and create

5:17

in that little marginal space. Okay.

5:20

So this is your fourth book and I've read a few

5:22

of your other ones too. And I really love the way

5:24

that you write and I love your work. And

5:27

I really think this one will stand

5:29

out for listeners that you are a

5:31

Christian author, but I think

5:33

that your message goes so much further than

5:35

just people of faith. I think this message

5:37

is applicable to anyone listening. So

5:40

I want to talk about that. Let's go

5:42

back to what you just mentioned. You said

5:44

35 to 37 was a time of understanding

5:46

limitation. So for you, how was it personal?

5:49

When did you start to realize your

5:51

own limitations? Well, I think

5:53

I was given a lot of opportunities to realize

5:55

them, but I think we come out of our

5:57

teens into our twenties with like this hurtling mentality.

6:00

Like if there's a fence line in my life, I

6:02

will overcome it. I will hurdle it. And so I

6:04

definitely live my 20s like that. I'm going to overcome

6:06

the world. I'm going to take on

6:08

the world. I'm going to do big things with

6:10

my life. And not that those things are bad.

6:13

In my 20s, I actually hit infertility. And that

6:15

was the first time that I realized I can't

6:18

will myself to do something my body just will

6:20

not do. So that

6:22

was the first opportunity that I came up

6:24

against my limitations. Like my body won't do

6:26

this simultaneously. My dad was diagnosed with cancer.

6:29

And he was the ultimate overcomer in my life. My

6:31

dad, who the famous story in our family is

6:33

my dad hiked the Grand Canyon in a day

6:35

with a diet coke in his hand and no

6:37

plan. And if you know the

6:39

Grand Canyon, nobody does that. No one. But my

6:41

dad, that was his mentality. So I grew up

6:43

with this kind of you just overcome. Well, my

6:45

dad actually had a fast growing brain cancer and

6:47

passed away the same time that I was facing

6:50

my infertility. So that's the first time that I

6:52

went, OK, sometimes there are

6:54

limits that we just cannot overcome. But

6:57

then I moved into my 30s. And as we

6:59

adopted and then had some surprise pregnancies,

7:02

time as a mom, I just

7:04

really started to realize there

7:06

really are only 24 hours in a day. And

7:08

I've continuing to try to do the work

7:10

of three people in one, which I did

7:13

in my 20s when I didn't have so

7:15

much responsibility. But in my 30s,

7:17

I started to hit the responsibility and how it

7:19

didn't match up with the actual time that I

7:21

had. And so my body

7:23

started showing me signs. You just can't

7:26

keep this pace. My mood, my mind,

7:28

I was grumpy. Those were the sorts

7:31

of signs for me that, wait a

7:33

second, my schedule is not matching my

7:35

capacity. Absolutely.

7:37

So you mentioned your physical body.

7:40

And I was reading a little bit more about

7:42

you and your story. I read that you had

7:44

suffered a heat stroke while running. It was that

7:46

one of those signs that was like, whoa, whoa,

7:48

whoa, you got to slow down. Yeah.

7:50

I mean, it's kind of revelatory of the type of person I

7:52

am. I trained for a race and had it in my mind.

7:55

It was a small town race in Charlottesville, Virginia, and had it

7:57

in my mind, I'm going to win this race. And

7:59

I knew. based on my running times that I could

8:01

potentially win. But I trained and

8:04

it was, you know, it was a cool summer.

8:06

So I trained in 70 degree mornings and I

8:08

didn't realize that there were actually Olympic trailers who

8:10

would be running the race. So it turned it

8:12

from a small town race to actually not as

8:15

much of a small town race. And

8:17

when I, as I learned that on the morning of the race

8:19

and it was 85 degrees, I

8:22

had my splits on my hand. If you're a runner,

8:24

you know what that is. You've got your times written.

8:26

I was trained. I literally had a trainer train me.

8:29

And I refused to read the signs that

8:31

my body was telling me that I was

8:33

in heat stroke. And I just kept pushing,

8:35

which is, it's such a picture of life.

8:38

I think so many of us do that,

8:40

especially I would say in our twenties and

8:42

thirties, where we resist the signs that say,

8:45

slow down, because we just don't

8:47

have a framework for that. And I actually collapsed

8:49

just before the finish line. My husband dragged me

8:51

across the finish line and I was disqualified because

8:53

you're not allowed to do that. But

8:57

really, if you look, if you do the research

8:59

on it, somebody who has a heat

9:01

stroke, it's actually like a psychological phenomenon

9:03

where you consciously choose to overcome the

9:05

signs that your body is telling you

9:07

to stop. Oh man.

9:10

Wow. Okay. So that was one of those

9:12

physical signs, but how are you seeing it

9:14

emotionally play out and mentally in your life?

9:16

Was it, I guess, sometimes

9:19

big things, what do they say, come in threes? Or

9:21

was there a longer period of time before you noticed, okay,

9:23

I can't do it all? I

9:26

think it was a long period of time, but I

9:28

started to notice, I think all of us could probably

9:30

relate to a shift in personality that might happen in

9:32

our twenties and to our thirties, where

9:34

we maybe get a little bit more cynical, a little

9:36

more edgy, kind of grumpy. We

9:39

might be more snappy with the person close

9:41

to us, whether it be our best friend

9:43

or our coworker or husband. And

9:45

over time, if I could map it,

9:48

I saw a slow disgruntledness with my

9:50

life. And it really was, I kept approaching

9:52

my life like I had no limits. Like

9:54

I just really could do anything that came

9:56

my way. And I wasn't

9:58

letting the limits. actually dictate maybe

10:01

a deeper work inside that needed

10:03

to happen to find a piece,

10:05

to find a settledness, to

10:07

find a contentment with the fence lines that I had

10:09

been given. That's really interesting.

10:12

So you believe that

10:14

idealism negatively influenced you.

10:16

What do you mean by idealism?

10:19

Well idealism by definition is looking

10:23

towards the ideals at the expense of what's

10:25

real. And so I think

10:27

we naturally reward ourselves and are rewarded for

10:29

idealism at a certain stage in our lives.

10:31

It's actually what makes people accomplish great goals

10:33

because you have vision that's bigger than, you

10:36

have eyes bigger than your stomach and that's

10:38

actually for many of us that's a good

10:40

thing for a period of time. But

10:43

then there is a reality where some

10:45

signs in our life are telling us

10:47

you actually can't get that goal. Like

10:50

there is a reality in front of you

10:53

that you can't accomplish and

10:55

you will lose relationship with your

10:57

relationships, peace, sleep, your

11:00

body health, your mental health. If

11:02

you continue to pursue the ideal at the expense of what

11:04

the signs are in front of you. For

11:07

me, four of our seven are adopted. And

11:09

for kids who've been through significant trauma,

11:11

life looks different for them. On

11:14

the outside, a lot of people wouldn't

11:16

necessarily know, but internally life oftentimes has

11:18

to be slower. For some people

11:20

who have a child who has a special need,

11:22

that's a pretty obvious thing. Like you just can't

11:24

push that kid beyond what they're

11:26

capable of. And I think for us, the

11:28

gift of adoption has been us seeing, wow,

11:30

I had an ideal of what our family

11:32

was going to look like that

11:35

didn't actually match what was real in front of me.

11:37

And I'm going to kill my people if

11:39

I keep pushing towards this ideal at the

11:41

expense of what's really in front of me.

11:44

The limit is that I have

11:46

a reality in front of me that's not matching my

11:48

goals and in some ways we're conditioned to just then

11:50

keep going for the goal. But that's like my heat

11:52

strokes and you keep looking at the splits on your

11:54

hands and not noticing

11:57

my body is shutting down. I

12:00

think sometimes we've got all these warning

12:02

signs that we ignore because we're so

12:04

determined to accomplish our ideals When

12:06

in reality, I think ideals can end up hindering us

12:09

if they become something in a place if we put

12:11

them in a place That they're not meant to be

12:13

I think it's been

12:15

really hard processing that I can't do it

12:17

all and I have There

12:19

are so many more things I want to do on top

12:21

of what I'm doing now And

12:23

when I actually sit and write it down, I

12:26

realize I have I don't

12:28

even have the time to really manage What I'm

12:30

currently managing and so I was talking to

12:32

a friend last night This maybe is

12:35

not applicable to all my listeners, but for me,

12:37

I'm like, okay I guess if I'm showing up

12:39

in this influencer e type realm, I'm a podcaster

12:41

So I should probably promote my podcast with social

12:43

media. Okay, how much time should I take in

12:45

this? There are certain times day and

12:47

part of me is like, okay I have to remember

12:49

the algorithm and am I gonna hit it and then

12:51

I was I know this is

12:53

so stupid It's not I mean writers have to

12:55

do that too writers very much have to do

12:58

that Yeah, so I'm sitting there thinking if you

13:00

know what? I can't play these games with whatever

13:03

Forces that be are going to dictate it So

13:05

I should just post what I want when I

13:07

want to post it. Is this the end? I'll

13:09

be out no Not really at the end of

13:12

my day and really I should also just make

13:14

sure that I'm not spending too much time on

13:16

my Social media that I'm taking away from the

13:18

time of being a good parent and that sounds

13:20

really That sounds very straightforward

13:22

and duh duh, of course, you're not gonna

13:24

do that But that's one thing that I've

13:27

been prioritizing in my life and I'm letting

13:29

my parenting fall from the wayside and I'm

13:31

a homeschooling mom And so I

13:33

realized like I really need a time block and

13:35

stick to those limits If my time is up

13:37

for how long I should be working on the

13:39

podcast and my time is up And then I'll

13:42

start again tomorrow, but I think that I thought

13:44

that I could Manage this

13:46

and that and be cooking but like also

13:48

working on this and then home-silling and it's

13:50

like no you can't possibly do that Oh

13:52

gosh, yes. Well you and everybody else

13:54

I think we're all in the same boat and I think the

13:56

reality is it's not until we start to see the thread hanging

13:59

out in our marriages and

14:01

our friendships, in the actual

14:03

quality of our work, that we

14:06

start to go, when I try to do it all,

14:08

there's actually a large loss. It's

14:10

weird, because we think if I can do it all, then I

14:12

can be all these things, but what we don't recognize is it's

14:15

quality over quantity. So if I'm gonna actually add

14:17

all these things to my plate, I'm

14:19

gonna be less of

14:21

the person I actually wanna be in the few things that

14:24

I really care about most. Mm-hmm, absolutely.

14:26

So that kind of brings me to

14:28

my next question. In

14:30

all of that, in recognizing that I

14:32

can't have my hands in everything,

14:35

there is a grief to recognize that. There

14:37

is a grief, and maybe that's too strong

14:39

of a word, but I know that in

14:42

your book, you talk about the same thing.

14:44

So what role has the grieving process played

14:46

in you identifying your own limitations? I

14:49

think grief's been really significant. I think I talked myself out

14:51

of grief for a long time, because I have kids

14:53

who have significant grief in their

14:55

life. In some ways, I think we go,

14:57

well, there is a child starving in Africa,

14:59

so surely the fact that I'm not able

15:01

to go on the girls' weekend with all

15:03

my college friends, because I

15:05

have a young baby that I can't travel with,

15:07

that surely is not real grief. I've gotta get

15:10

over that. I think about the year that I

15:12

wasn't able to get to my mom's 70th birthday,

15:14

because I had broken my ankle and I was pregnant, I

15:16

couldn't travel alone, and there was no way that I could

15:19

figure that out in the amount of time that they had

15:21

actually planned a surprise for her. And

15:23

so for me to just go, oh, get over it,

15:25

which is what I think we oftentimes do to ourselves,

15:27

we coach ourselves in to just get over it. We

15:30

actually don't get over it. We store it up inside of

15:32

us. We store it inside of our bodies in many ways.

15:34

It comes out through headaches and sickness, and we get stressed

15:36

and we don't even realize it. I

15:38

think grief is like a relief valve

15:41

to these little micro aches, these

15:43

paper cuts, that build up over

15:45

time when we start to name

15:47

them and go, oh

15:49

man, actually, that was a massive loss that

15:51

I missed my mom's 70th birthday. And

15:54

my mom has been such a significant influence in my

15:56

life and I didn't get to celebrate her. And

15:59

instead of just going, get over it, Sarah, like other

16:01

people that have bigger pains. I'm

16:03

going, no, I actually need to give this space

16:05

and time in my life to grieve, to sit

16:07

in the sadness of it, to

16:09

name the limitation of having so many kids

16:11

and having this crazy surprise pregnancy and having

16:14

a broken ankle, to name

16:16

that and go, this is actually really hard. And

16:18

for me, it means to process that with God,

16:20

to sit in that grief with God, but to

16:22

do something with that grief, to let that grief

16:24

be productive. So it doesn't build up. And I

16:26

just keep pushing it to the wayside until it

16:29

starts to show up. One

16:35

thing I was realizing, again, talking to this

16:37

friend, I told her she was my own

16:39

personal therapist last night, but I was just

16:41

telling her I was experiencing some of the

16:43

symptoms that you've mentioned, just kind of being

16:45

grumpy or cynical and snapping more. And I

16:48

didn't necessarily realize that is a

16:50

sign of burnout. And all

16:53

that to say, I told her I'd been a lot and she was

16:55

like, Oh, that is so hard. And

16:58

she was like, Oh, that is a

17:00

release of dopamine. Because in that moment where

17:03

you're daydreaming about your future, or

17:05

being somewhere else, you are allowing yourself to

17:07

comfort yourself with that little thought. And then you

17:10

start to get in these bad cycles with

17:12

things that aren't even real. Does that make

17:14

sense? Oh, yes, makes total

17:16

sense. Crazy. Yeah. So apparently I've been doing

17:18

that. Well, and I it's interesting, because I

17:20

talked about that in my book, not necessarily

17:22

a dopamine hit, because I didn't know physiologically,

17:24

that that's what happens, but how we create

17:27

these whole daydreams in our we create this

17:29

alternative reality in our minds, which we

17:31

as humans right now, in 2024, are

17:33

very used to alternative realities, because we

17:35

have this world on our phone, that

17:38

I can access what's going on in my neighbor's

17:40

world, in my friend's world, who's living in London,

17:42

in my cousin's world, who's living in California. And

17:44

so, I can create these

17:46

whole realities. But our daydreams, we

17:48

actually foster this escape

17:51

from our own limitations. And so it's

17:54

just, again, it's the slow buildup of

17:56

like, I'm disgruntled, I'm feeling dissatisfied, I'm

17:58

not doing anything with that. I'm

18:00

just giving it a little bit of release when

18:02

I think about when I'm no longer doing diapers

18:05

or when I'm not doing both college visits and

18:08

Training a child to write their letters at the

18:10

same time You know, I I imagine my life

18:12

with two kids who are four years apart instead

18:14

of seven kids that are all so close together

18:18

and what it actually does is it

18:20

prevents me from facing the limitations that

18:22

I've been given and Receiving

18:24

the gift that they are our limitations are a gift

18:26

and yeah I you know this because this is so

18:29

much of your message But in many

18:31

ways I think we have limitations that we

18:33

haven't said yes to that we haven't chosen

18:36

We we have limitations placed on us

18:38

and because they are placed on us

18:41

We resent them when in

18:43

reality our limitations are a gift and so

18:45

much of life is a journey into Understanding

18:47

that when I am limited there is a

18:49

gift to be had there. Yes, absolutely And

18:52

with that ruminating on the same thought I

18:54

mean our brains are where they're malleable so

18:56

we can change them but we also drill

18:58

these little pathways in our head and that's

19:00

why it becomes so realistic and Someone

19:02

might use shopping to fill that

19:04

that void someone might use food

19:06

or exercise Whatever your

19:08

pleasure is but I I think I realized

19:11

when I was talking to her I'm like, oh, I'm

19:13

not an addict of any sort But that in a

19:16

way is an addiction of just allowing yourself I don't

19:18

know just getting these negative happens where you're not grateful

19:20

And you should be grateful for the things that you

19:22

were given if I don't out and look at my

19:24

life I'm like, wow, what a blessed life I have

19:27

But then you get little cycles of where you forget

19:29

that gratitude and I think that's the most important thing

19:31

and you're talking about being grateful For

19:33

the limits so that we can focus on the things that really

19:35

truly build us up and what we can actually Manage

19:38

in touch right now Yes, and

19:40

I think you know researchers say we have 6,000 thoughts

19:43

in a day What's so interesting is

19:45

we do so much to tweak our schedule and

19:47

our priorities and our goals But

19:49

there's a whole real estate up here in our brain

19:53

6,000 thoughts that for the most part go Unevaluated

19:55

and let until they get so big and out of control

19:57

that we're having an anxiety attack or a panic attack know

20:00

what to do. But every day

20:02

I have real estate, 6,000 thoughts

20:04

here. And if I'm honest, so

20:06

many of those thoughts are these

20:08

very subtle like, if

20:10

I didn't have this much responsibility

20:12

and why is this kid again

20:14

struggling in this way? And if we just had

20:16

a little more of this or if I could

20:18

just travel, you know, I look at Instagram for

20:21

one second and see a friend who's in Hawaii.

20:23

And I'm like already like, oh, why am I

20:25

in Kansas City in January? You know, and these

20:28

so that's my 6,000. And it

20:30

just cycles through unexamined. But there is

20:32

a power actually to starting to

20:35

open the hood a little bit to look into

20:37

our minds and see what's happening with those 6,000.

20:39

And what are we doing with that 6,000? A lot of times

20:42

we're just passively receiving it. So

20:44

I'm standing at my backyard like

20:46

figuratively speaking. And I have

20:48

this luscious yard and beautiful trees and

20:50

green grass. And my eyes are over

20:52

the fence line. This is figurative.

20:55

And my thoughts are over the fence line,

20:57

my daydreams are over the fence

20:59

line. And then I wonder why

21:01

I'm waking up grumpy or why I'm snapping

21:03

at my husband, or why I'm snapping

21:05

at my kids. It's because there's these 6,000 unevaluated

21:08

thoughts. I wonder why I can't be present

21:10

with my kid on their birthday at their

21:12

birthday party because my mind is already thinking

21:14

about something. I have one conversation with a

21:17

mom about some little trip she's taking or

21:19

about some little luxury she has in my

21:21

mind there during the birthday party. And that

21:24

6,000 then is getting occupied instead of

21:27

by receiving my limits and being present

21:29

to what's right in front of me,

21:31

my daydreams and what's on the other

21:33

side of the fence. And then

21:35

it just makes me just heart sick. Yeah.

21:38

Oh yeah, heart sick. That's a great

21:40

word for it. And again, it seems

21:43

like a first world problem. Silly to

21:45

say, hey, like, oh, I'm heart sick

21:48

about these daydreams I have. But

21:50

I mean, I'm heart sick about these daydreams I

21:52

have. But I mean, it doesn't deny that I

21:54

don't feel that emotion. Oh, absolutely.

21:56

That's still real in my

21:58

experience. So. I think that's what's

22:01

been hard to navigate. And I think that's part of

22:03

the grieving too, is I feel like our emotions have

22:05

a lot more power over us when we don't name

22:07

them. Like sometimes we're just so

22:09

afraid of naming them, right? I'm so afraid because I

22:11

don't want to be that grumpy person because I don't

22:13

want to be that disgruntled person with

22:16

my life that I don't want to name that

22:18

I'm actually unhappy. And there's something that

22:20

can happen when I go, I'm really sad. And

22:22

so we use the terminology in

22:24

the adoption world, name it and tame

22:27

it. Like when I can name my

22:29

emotion, it actually loses some of

22:31

the strength over me. It loses some of the

22:33

hold because I'm actually just taking the air out

22:35

of it instead of letting it get bigger and

22:37

bigger because I'm afraid to name it. Yeah,

22:40

absolutely. So going back to

22:42

productivity, you talk about having a productivity fast.

22:44

I think that I could benefit from that.

22:46

So maybe explain that to us. Well, it

22:48

was just kind of, I'm

22:50

always tinkering with different

22:52

ideas. And I was noticing

22:54

just practically the way I would plan my week

22:56

is I would have a list of five or

22:59

six, maybe seven or eight things in a day

23:01

administratively that I would need to get done, like

23:03

very practical things. In addition to

23:05

being a mom and being present and

23:07

writing. And I noticed that at the end

23:09

of the day, it was like I was a slave

23:11

to this list and a slave to the things I

23:14

needed to get done. Not so much of the list,

23:16

but I am wired to feel good about myself when

23:18

I'm productive. I'm wired to feel like

23:20

a day that I've accomplished a lot is a good day.

23:23

And that's a tough thing. Like I, Kurt

23:25

recently in the last year have been diagnosed

23:27

with Lyme disease. Well, that's a

23:29

pretty tough thing to say that my worth and my

23:31

value comes from how much I can accomplish in a

23:33

day when I've got something in front of me that's

23:35

gonna limit that. But the

23:37

productivity fast was years ago where

23:40

I started to notice I felt

23:42

good when I was productive. And then

23:44

I started to think, I don't want

23:47

my productivity to drive my sense

23:49

of worth and value. And

23:51

so for me, I just played a little game

23:53

with myself and I figured out my

23:55

most productive hours were between like, you know, one and

23:58

three, two and four when the kids were now. at

24:00

that point in time. If I

24:02

could limit myself such

24:04

that I would literally be taking walks

24:06

and reading poetry and reading literature during

24:09

my most productive hours, I wanted to

24:11

expose the thoughts that came up here.

24:13

And I thought, what am I

24:16

gonna do with those thoughts? And it was

24:18

actually a very valuable experiment because I started

24:20

to see how much my

24:22

sense of worth was tied to my productivity.

24:24

None of us want that because we

24:26

are gonna have seasons in life where we're not productive.

24:29

We are gonna have times in life where we're not

24:31

producing and then where do we get our worth? Where

24:34

is our value? And so

24:36

for me it was consciously saying, I'm gonna

24:38

limit myself, I'm gonna limit myself here and

24:40

I'm gonna see what comes up. I'm gonna

24:43

bring this to God. I'm gonna figure out

24:45

how and what it where is my real

24:47

worth and value come from and what does

24:49

it look like to be somebody who's confident

24:51

in herself and in God

24:53

even when I'm not

24:56

productive. And it was wildly successful for

24:58

that reason. I

25:00

just want to make sure that we hit everyone

25:02

listening because I know not everyone is a writer

25:04

or a podcaster. So I think this could be

25:06

like cleaning your house and the way that your

25:09

house appears to people that may be

25:11

coming over or just for your husband or even

25:13

for yourself. I think allowing some of those things

25:15

to not have so much pressure over

25:17

our lives, to have so much dictation

25:19

over the way that we feel about ourselves.

25:22

Absolutely. Well and honestly that was my task

25:24

list was not related to writing. My task

25:26

list was related to you know ordering new

25:28

clothes for my kids, making sure they had

25:30

the right winter gear. Like that's a weird

25:32

thing to go, I'm just not gonna do

25:34

it today. Or like I am host, I

25:38

love to host. Hosting a party and going

25:41

well it's right in the middle of

25:43

my productivity fast. I'm not gonna clean the bathrooms. What

25:45

does it look like to host and not clean your

25:47

bathrooms? You know or I'm deciding I'm

25:49

not gonna do three appetizers, I'm just gonna do one.

25:51

Or I'm gonna drive my friends

25:53

kids and I'm gonna let the van be a

25:55

mess. It was those kinds of things that I

25:57

actually was choosing to limit. to

26:00

see what does it feel like to pull up and pick

26:02

up a friend's kids and I didn't clean the van. That's

26:04

great. I love that you didn't do that. That's

26:07

taking our time and our inner. I

26:09

mean, it's mad at me. Yeah, yeah. I've

26:16

said it before, but even though I'm a minimalist,

26:18

I still love clothes. That

26:21

said, I prefer to shop quality over

26:23

quantity, but I can't always afford to

26:25

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26:27

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26:29

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26:31

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26:34

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26:37

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26:39

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26:41

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26:43

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26:46

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26:48

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26:52

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26:54

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26:56

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26:58

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27:01

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29:43

right, so again, we've been talking a

29:45

lot about seasons and how maybe right

29:47

now we don't have the bandwidth to

29:50

do this and that, but seasons do

29:52

change. They haven't slow, and I'm wondering

29:54

what it looks like to find balance

29:56

for understanding our limitations,

29:59

but also understand Understanding that we can

30:01

have hope that maybe our limitations are only for

30:03

a season. Mm-hmm I mean in some ways I

30:05

think it comes back to us being present to

30:07

what's right in front of us Which again ties

30:09

into how we're addressing the 6,000 thoughts in our

30:12

head the more present I

30:14

am with what's what's right in front

30:16

of me the less future casting I do and If

30:19

I have a current limitation like let's just use

30:21

my Lyme disease right now if I

30:23

think Well, or my Lyme disease

30:25

six months ago because right now I'm actually

30:27

on a healing trents six months ago If

30:30

I thought I am gonna be this fatigued

30:32

and this tired forever. I would wake up

30:34

every day so sad So

30:36

I think in some ways we have

30:38

to limit ourselves into going everything in

30:40

life is a season Everything

30:42

in life is temporary I mean, you know one

30:44

of the authors that I love to read Kurt

30:46

Thompson talks about one of the challenges to suffering

30:48

is This fear that we have

30:50

that it will never end and in some

30:52

ways I think our limitations touch that like

30:55

if I actually Believe that this

30:57

current limitation is going to be forever I'm probably going

30:59

to be sunk so in some ways we have to

31:01

and to use the same terminology in

31:03

a different way We've got to limit our thoughts and

31:05

go I'm gonna live this current reality

31:08

and it's challenging and I'm gonna protect

31:10

my mind From

31:12

going to what if this plays out for

31:14

10 more years? Cuz I just am NOT gonna have

31:16

the ability to I can't know what

31:18

10 years is gonna look like It's just gonna sink

31:20

me now if I live that way and if we

31:22

look back I mean the other benefit is if we

31:24

look back and tell ourselves the stories of our lives

31:27

Every season of my life where I have been like

31:30

notably limited has been

31:32

only a season Every hard

31:34

time has been only a season And so

31:36

I need to stop the future casting in

31:38

the dread because it actually really prevents me

31:40

from being present And it's which came

31:43

first the chicken or the egg the more present I am To

31:46

my current reality the more I silence the

31:48

future casting in the dread, which really is

31:50

like, you know, totally hinders me Absolutely. Well,

31:53

Sarah, I feel like we barely scratched the surface with

31:55

all the content you have in this book So I

31:57

want to direct listeners to your books. They get limitations,

32:00

but where else can they connect with you online

32:02

if they want to do so? Well, I'm on

32:04

Instagram at Sarah Hagerty writes, and I also have

32:07

a sub-stack page called

32:09

SOAR, and I write there pretty

32:11

regularly. Great. Well, as we wrap things up

32:13

here, I didn't prompt you for this, but I asked my

32:15

guests two questions at the end of every podcast. And

32:18

the first one is, what has been a

32:20

beneficial resource in your life that you want to

32:22

share with the listeners? You know, I love, there

32:24

is a friend of mine actually who created a

32:26

journal called the Growth Book. If you look up

32:29

Growth Roots Co., that

32:31

journal is kind of a guided journal. It's not

32:34

overguided. Sometimes I feel like when you have a

32:36

journal or something to record your thoughts as a

32:38

writer, I like to

32:40

just write, just get out in my

32:42

system on a page. That

32:44

is a guided journal, but not

32:46

overguided. And I really appreciate, I like the

32:49

feel of the pages. I'm kind of a writing geek.

32:51

So like, I like the actual, the way my pen

32:53

feels on the page and the way that it lays

32:55

flat. So that's been an awesome resource for me.

32:57

Okay. Well, I'll be sure

33:00

to include a link for that journal on the

33:02

show notes. But my last question for you is

33:04

what is something you can't stop talking about? And

33:06

this can be something silly, frivolous,

33:08

serious, whatever you want to share. I

33:10

think I might say Pilates. That

33:13

has been my postpartum rehab, but I'm

33:15

well postpartum now. It's been my later

33:17

years of life strength training. Pilates has

33:19

been like the secret I never knew

33:21

I needed. And once I discovered it,

33:23

I keep telling everybody in my world,

33:25

you've got to do Pilates and I'm

33:28

a hardcore runner. So it's really using

33:30

a totally different methodology and

33:32

body strength. But it's been like a game

33:34

changer for me in this season of life.

33:38

That's so funny. I, I'm not a runner

33:40

like you. I'm like 1130 minute miles. So

33:43

I'm a jogger. I'm about there

33:45

to do that. Well, I wanted

33:47

to do something to support my muscles while I

33:49

was running. So yesterday I took my first Pilates

33:51

class. No way.

33:53

Yeah. Okay. So I Will tell you truly, it is

33:55

a game team. I Mean, I've been doing it for

33:57

seven years now, but like I, being a life. There

34:00

have been a runner since I was fourteen. I

34:02

have My body has not been had the strength

34:04

and shape. and I don't mean like shape in

34:06

terms of appearance but I mean like I feel

34:08

strong without pull up a lot. He says like

34:10

changed my physique and and in a way that

34:12

a if is eager the wrong word but like

34:14

it's just change the way that I feel physically

34:17

and my strength. It's been a game changer. So.

34:20

Keep telling I worked muscles yesterday that

34:22

I didn't even know existed. Lily

34:25

if you're like oh my goodness did I

34:27

ask how muscle where did that come from,

34:30

yeah for sure there would be talking with

34:32

you. Thanks for sharing your buck with me

34:34

and I appreciate you being here. So.

34:39

Why did you think of the episode?

34:41

I hope you enjoyed the conversation to

34:43

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34:45

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34:47

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34:49

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