0:04

This constant fear of like what other people

0:07

think. There's no audience, Like

0:09

who do you think is watching?

0:10

If you really want to oversimplified, it's like we're

0:13

not hearing that long for real. Therese

0:16

like just let's roll even when it gets

0:18

hard and bad. I agree with you, and it's

0:20

like, hey, listen, this is hard and bad. And by

0:23

the way, that's okay too, Like that's part.

0:25

One hundred percent and it's going to pass like everything

0:27

else, like including our lives.

0:29

Yeah, hello,

0:32

I'm mini driver.

0:33

I've always loved Proust's questionnaire. It

0:36

was originally in nineteenth century

0:38

parlor game where players would ask

0:41

each other thirty five questions aimed at

0:43

revealing the other player's true nature.

0:46

In asking different people the same set of questions,

0:49

you can make observations about which

0:51

truths appear to be universal.

0:52

And it made me wonder, what if these questions

0:55

were just a jumping off point, what greater

0:57

depths would be revealed if I asked these

1:00

questions as conversation starters. So

1:02

I adapted Pru's questionnai and I wrote

1:04

my own seven questions that I personally

1:07

think are pertinent to a person's story. They

1:09

are when and where were you happiest?

1:11

What is the quality you like least about yourself?

1:14

What relationship, real or fictionalized,

1:17

defines love for you? What question

1:19

would you most like answered, What

1:21

person, place, or experience has shaped

1:23

you the most? What would be your last meal?

1:26

And can you tell me something in your life

1:28

that's grown out of a personal disaster?

1:31

And I've gathered a group of really

1:34

remarkable people, ones that I

1:36

am honored and humbled to have had the

1:38

chance to engage with.

1:39

You may not hear their answers to all seven

1:41

of these questions. We've whittled it

1:44

down to which questions felt

1:46

closest to their experience, or the most

1:48

surprising, or created

1:50

the most fertile ground to connect.

1:54

My guest today is the athlete, podcaster,

1:57

and wellness oracle Gabrielle

1:59

Reese. Gabby is an Olympian,

2:01

which tells you right away a lot of what she

2:03

is made of. We live in the same

2:06

small beach community in California where she

2:08

has these legendary workout sessions

2:10

that leave people stronger, fitter,

2:12

having physically achieved things they never.

2:14

Thought they could. I've never

2:17

run into her and been met with anything

2:19

less than her wonderfully direct gaze,

2:21

her warmth and her presence. There

2:24

aren't many people who I really believe one

2:26

hundred percent about health, wellness and fitness,

2:29

because there always seems to be some kind of Hollywood

2:31

snake oil attached to it. But Gabby Reese

2:33

and her husband Led Hamilton are the real

2:35

deal. Gabby's been living

2:37

what she talks about on her podcast, The

2:39

Gabby Reese Show since she was a kid

2:42

training for the Olympics. This was such

2:44

a great conversation where someone I'm deeply inspired

2:46

by and admire so greatly. So

2:53

my first question is where

2:56

and when were you happiest?

2:58

Where and when was I happiest?

3:00

I think for me, you know, I always joke

3:03

about in a way there's a part of me, a

3:05

lot of me that's very very simple, and

3:07

this has happened multiple times when I'm in bed

3:10

and sort of the immediate circle everybody's

3:12

okay. I know that feeling

3:15

right before I go to bed of sort

3:17

of feeling really good. You know, no

3:20

girls in an urgency, they're healthy,

3:22

I sort of, they're tucked in. Larry

3:24

and I were in a dance

3:27

like we're not stepping on each other's toes.

3:29

So I think for me, that feeling of happiness

3:32

that you talk about has really shown up

3:34

for me in that moment right before I go to

3:36

bed. And I would say, I'm a person

3:38

who doesn't really look

3:41

at the past too much,

3:44

so I don't think it occurs to me. Oh,

3:46

I was really happy when I was playing volleyball,

3:49

or of course I enjoyed when my kids were

3:51

babies. But I think it's

3:53

this idea of I

3:56

also kind of look forward

3:58

often.

4:00

It's a function of also being like,

4:03

quite literally and figuratively, you

4:05

guys lead an action packed life,

4:08

and then there is a huge amount of movement,

4:11

both kind of where you are geographically and

4:14

like the things that make up yours and lad's life,

4:16

and I'm assuming you're girls too, Like, do you think

4:18

that that the notion of action is kind of the stasis

4:21

and then that piece calm,

4:24

everybody's quiet, everybody's tucked in, that

4:27

the space for that is where

4:29

you can really sort of rest and

4:31

feel centered.

4:33

Yeah, I think that really supports that

4:35

mentality. I think, you know, Lared heard a

4:37

quote many years ago, never let your

4:40

accomplishments be greater than your dreams.

4:43

And I think both of us are sort of hardwired

4:47

to go like, hey, what's around the

4:49

corner and listen. It's it's

4:51

great. You know this from your own experience

4:53

to have had some semblance of

4:56

hey, good job, well done. I

4:58

could figure it out. I don't know how to I'm, you know, approaching

5:01

something I don't know how to do. I have a body of

5:03

evidence that I could probably try to figure something

5:05

out. Those things are nice that give

5:07

you that kind of confidence, but the

5:09

hardwiring of that's

5:12

not in my control. I can't spend

5:14

a lot of time there, So why not create

5:17

new experiences or fun or

5:19

challenges or things that will bring me satisfaction

5:22

and purpose. I feel like that's something that

5:24

is hardwired in lair Night individually.

5:27

And then the fact that we're in this

5:29

coupleton makes it maybe a little easier.

5:32

How long have you guys been together?

5:33

We have been together for

5:37

almost twenty nine years. We've been married

5:39

for almost twenty seven years. Wow,

5:42

I know I am way too young, way.

5:44

Too young to have been

5:46

lit.

5:49

I just kid, you know, listen, And

5:51

having said that, that sounds like a grand number. I

5:53

always joke laired and I really almost

5:55

got divorced to different times. You

5:57

know, it's been a really good last fifteen

6:00

years layered you know, stop drinking

6:02

alcohol sixteen years ago. That really

6:05

was really good for the relationships.

6:08

So I never want to sell a bill

6:10

of goods and like, yeah, it's

6:12

just easy street. But I also

6:14

think in some ways we are we

6:17

have some things that make it easier to

6:19

be together.

6:20

So interesting. I think when your happiness is wrapped

6:22

up with another human of

6:25

how the parameters of that change and

6:27

the stuff that becomes non negotiable about

6:29

Yes, we always go I have to look to myself

6:31

to kind of change to evolve

6:33

in a relationship, but there are certain

6:36

hard and fast things that you go, this is no longer

6:38

working, and it's kind of like evolve or

6:40

die. And I think it's amazing

6:42

to be able to stay in

6:44

that version of happiness with someone that accommodates

6:48

sort of radical evolution and

6:51

radical self knowledge to

6:53

support kind of the organism of a

6:55

family. Like it's it's a proper commitment.

6:58

It is. And maybe one thing I do

7:01

buy into coming from sports

7:04

is there

7:06

is good hard and I don't

7:08

believe in making myself my life

7:10

unnecessarily hard. I don't

7:12

like to do that. I like to actually make things

7:15

easy, but I do seek

7:17

out good, hard, hard

7:20

that I know goes to another

7:23

level and not shying away

7:25

from it. But at

7:27

the end end of the day,

7:30

it is still on each of us as individuals,

7:32

like there's just no way around it. Like I could

7:34

have the greatest partner who pushes me,

7:37

you know, maybe I get some courage from laired to

7:39

be kind of certain parts of my personality

7:41

that I wouldn't, you know, even for my children.

7:44

It's like it's on me to

7:47

figure out what's going to make

7:49

me feel good. And Byron Katie said

7:51

to me once something one time years ago.

7:53

She said, you know, if you want to change your environment,

7:55

change yourself, And I thought, yeah, it's such

7:58

a such

8:00

a constant truth. And

8:02

it's so hard because.

8:03

You think I can visit them, I

8:06

know, because it's so much that I need to

8:08

see somebody else's shit than it is to see

8:10

you or to offer up advice on

8:12

how for them to fix it. The exo

8:14

stuff is so much easier

8:16

than the internal journey.

8:19

And yet that's why we've got to do it.

8:25

What is the quality you like least about yourself?

8:28

Jeez, I think I'm not looking

8:31

for fun and that sort

8:33

of that's not great.

8:36

I know, Lair looks at me on the side of his head so many

8:38

days because he really is looking for fun, like the

8:40

real fun. They'll like out in nature, you

8:43

know, be in the moment, have the wind blowing,

8:45

just like the good fun. And

8:48

I'm sort of like, yeah, I'm looking

8:51

for work and order,

8:53

and maybe that's my version

8:56

of trying to have some kind of control. I

8:58

get a deep sense of

9:00

fulfillment from Oh, okay,

9:03

goal task completion. I love

9:05

all that. Like, if you want to visit with me and talk, I can

9:07

be funny and fun, but I'm not personally

9:10

looking for like big fun,

9:12

and I think that's a really important

9:14

part of being human being.

9:17

I really like that observation. No one's ever answered

9:19

that, but it's sort of I think it makes for quite

9:21

a good compliment with someone like Lad

9:24

who is essentially Puck

9:26

in the Shakespearean sense of

9:28

just the mischief maker, the seeker

9:31

of the fun and the naughtiness

9:33

and the loves to get in trouble just

9:36

to see how he can get out of it, Like

9:39

Puck kind of needs to be with Eel.

9:42

Yeah, someone who's taking it a little bit more

9:44

seriously.

9:45

Yeah, And it's funny because obviously at my age,

9:47

I have really learned like it's hard to get

9:50

me to react. I don't get aggravated.

9:52

But as far as like, you know, do you want

9:54

to go get you know, in trouble,

9:56

I'm sort of like, yeah, I'll be ready

9:58

at like seven, you guys when to get

10:00

back. And maybe I intuitively

10:03

chose Lair because I enjoy it through

10:05

him. I know it's important,

10:07

so I have a splash of it in my life, even

10:09

if it's not all coming through me. I'll

10:12

give you an example. I went to this gentleman named Peter

10:14

Evans, and he said, you know you

10:17

don't have wonder, and

10:20

you know you have to get back to your bliss right,

10:22

And I thought, I don't even know what the hell you're

10:25

talking about. Like when he said that word bliss,

10:27

when I see people that are like freely floating

10:29

and like in my bliss, I thought,

10:32

I don't know that I've ever experienced

10:36

that. And I am very open minded. But

10:38

when you talked about wonder, when you see a small

10:40

child and everything is in wonder, I'm

10:43

assessing, who's that, what's this?

10:45

What does that mean? Versus wonder?

10:48

And so that would be another kind of bolt

10:50

on adjunct to this fun component

10:53

that I really think

10:55

I could do better.

10:57

Have you ever actively gone and created

10:59

your version of wonder and fun

11:01

and what does that look like?

11:03

No, because I don't think it's something you can fake, right,

11:06

It's the way that the world hits you. So

11:09

my version of that is I'm

11:11

just gonna see, I'm gonna look,

11:13

I'm not going to think, I know, I'm just gonna

11:16

take it in. And so that has been the

11:18

practice for me that has come out of that.

11:20

That sounds incredibly fun to be actively

11:23

present. What

11:38

question would you most like answered?

11:41

I guess it's not unique. You

11:43

know, you go through this life, and especially during

11:45

this time when it's really wild and

11:48

contentious, it's

11:50

like when you see the lopsidedness

11:53

of all the beauty and the injustice,

11:55

I guess I would like to understand why that has

11:58

to coexist. And I know bright

12:00

light dark shadow, and you can't

12:02

have light without dark, but

12:05

I guess sometimes when you see

12:07

such extreme I would love to understand

12:10

is that the only way is that the only

12:12

way that the one beauty

12:16

and the magic can exist is with the

12:18

sort of other side. I always

12:20

look at that and think, man, that's a

12:22

lot of suffering for some of this other stuff.

12:25

I often wonder if it is I

12:28

mean, I use the word God just some other

12:30

force. Is that God made, force

12:32

made? Or is that man made? Like

12:35

I think about that often, Like

12:38

you sort of see it in nature. You see

12:40

the ostensible rawness,

12:42

but there doesn't seem to be a rage behind

12:45

it. You see that it's balanced the

12:47

light and dark in nature, which is what makes

12:49

me feel that we have a hand and just test

12:51

savage.

12:51

But is that our lesson? Right? Is that we

12:54

have to go through that to tame the

12:56

beast within ourselves? I don't It's so

12:58

complex, right, you go, man, what

13:01

is the real lesson? What is the

13:03

real purpose of that? Because, like you said, in nature,

13:05

it feels very straightforward. It doesn't

13:07

feel personal, and it's freaking

13:10

brutal at the same time.

13:12

Yeah, maybe that's it. It doesn't

13:15

feel personal. It feels like it's part

13:17

of a rhythm that has

13:19

always existed, whereas ours

13:21

feels a lot more manufactured. And you're

13:24

right, it's like, could we ever evolve

13:26

from that? I wonder, like, is it possible

13:29

for us to evolve beyond the savagery?

13:31

I suppose of the way in which

13:33

we whether it's treat each other

13:36

or treat ourselves. I don't know.

13:38

That's a good one. That's actually a really good one.

13:40

I think about AI as well, and going is

13:43

that part of the lure of that

13:46

is this idea that you could

13:48

fashion and create a program that

13:51

doesn't have the

13:53

kind of awfulness that is part of being

13:55

human.

13:56

I asked this gentleman who runs the Harvard study

13:58

once it's a happiness study, right, and

14:01

it's gone on for I think seventy five

14:03

years, And I said, you know, listen, we've written books

14:05

about it, and there's poems and movies and songs,

14:07

like we know the answers.

14:11

What is it about us that we just can't

14:13

figure it out? And he looked at me and he was like, oh,

14:16

Gabby, that's how we gained wisdom.

14:19

And I thought, fair enough. And

14:21

so the AI think will be interesting

14:23

because some of the lessons

14:26

that's what's so great about experience. You can't

14:28

hack it, you can't shortcut it. Right, It is yours

14:30

to possess, to own.

14:32

It's certainly going to speed stuff up.

14:33

Oh hell yes, it

14:35

is.

14:36

Thinking about what the gentleman at Harvard

14:38

said of the idea

14:40

of getting wiser Is

14:42

it just that we can't see our evolution because

14:45

for us, it's it's generational, Like if

14:47

you could look at it in a thousand years, would

14:49

you be able to see this bell curve

14:51

that we don't know that we're part

14:54

of because we can't see it yet.

14:56

Yeah, And the transitions are really really

14:58

uncomfortable, and we obviously

15:01

clearly in a wild transition

15:03

because you know, is it a transition

15:05

away from a biological into

15:08

a hybrid. It's so funny,

15:10

I said the laird. Today. I vacillate

15:12

between I want to check out and just go

15:14

live, you know. But we're

15:16

of the age that we're supposed to be here

15:19

and we're supposed to help, and we're supposed to usher

15:21

in the next group. We're supposed to act

15:23

like the adults. But then it's like, is

15:25

the information or wisdom we have almost

15:28

useless because is it moving

15:30

away from biology towards

15:34

a mashup with technology? So

15:36

that is sort of an interesting question.

15:38

I still think, because we're in our

15:40

biology at this moment, that it's

15:43

really nice to consider it because I feel

15:45

like when we have a relationship with it, you feel

15:47

better.

15:48

I agree. I do think a lot

15:50

about our carbon

15:52

based NICs becoming

15:54

potentially obsolete, or as you said,

15:57

a hybrids. It

15:59

just goes back to be what you said about just

16:01

be present. It's forward moving. It is

16:03

always forward moving, so we might

16:05

as well be that way as well. Yeah,

16:12

what person, place, or experience

16:15

most altered your life.

16:17

I've had a few. I lived with a

16:19

couple from the age of two to seven. They

16:21

recently, I actually both passed away. They were

16:24

a couple from Long Island, New York,

16:27

and they took care of me. And my mother was a young

16:29

mother in her early twenties. She had sort of a far

16:31

out. She was training dolphins at a circus in Mexico

16:34

and she met my father, who's from Trinidad.

16:36

I did not live with my parents, so they

16:38

were really pivotal, and

16:40

I grew up in the Caribbean. After that, I had some families

16:43

that would take me in even though I was living with my mother

16:45

at the time. I had a coach in

16:48

college that was really really instrumental

16:50

and sort of talking about personal accountability

16:53

and help me. So I'd say I sort of

16:55

had these outside people,

16:58

And what I learned from all that was we

17:01

think our parents, like, oh my mom did

17:03

or didn't do this, my dad did or didn't do that.

17:05

But sometimes we have people

17:08

that didn't have to step in and

17:10

they do, and so we got bonus

17:13

even though we felt like we got chinched on this

17:15

one side. And so I think when I got a

17:17

little older, I was like, man, I had some pretty

17:20

stellar people who stepped in and

17:22

really helped me navigate and create

17:25

a really wonderful life.

17:27

Do you think that by being able

17:29

to acknowledge that these

17:31

people were incredibly

17:33

generous and wonderful to step into your life when

17:36

perhaps they didn't necessarily have to

17:38

in the way that we think parents should, did that

17:40

help you let go of the

17:42

hard things? So it

17:44

became a bonus. It became something that

17:46

was actually light filled as opposed to something that

17:48

was dark and sad. And the idea of living with someone

17:51

other than your parents at two to seven might

17:53

like when you say that to me, it sounds sad.

17:56

But did you just manage to reframe

17:58

that later because there

18:00

was a lot of light in it.

18:01

Absolutely, and it's also maybe surrendering

18:04

to maybe it was better for me. Maybe

18:07

my life has turned out better even

18:09

though there was a great deal of unknown

18:12

and my hypervigilance comes from

18:14

not living with my parents. My lack of

18:16

fun, my lack of wonder comes

18:19

from really being

18:21

bounced from the nest very early. But

18:25

what I came to a relationship with is Listen,

18:28

I was out of my house at seventeen and totally independent

18:30

at eighteen. I'm going to adult

18:33

a lot longer than I was a kid. So let's

18:35

take a few hard, shitty years for

18:38

the opportunity to go like, oh

18:40

wait, I have tools that I can build

18:42

a life. I don't like stuff, I know how to change it.

18:44

I have discipline, I can plan, I can

18:47

navigate, and that came from that childhood.

18:49

So it certainly took time. And

18:52

I would also say today I

18:54

have the best relationship with my mother. I

18:57

completely accept and love

18:59

and have no problem with her. But

19:01

I only seek out the relationship with her

19:03

that works for me. So I

19:06

also have a brutality with

19:08

that being able to reframe. So

19:11

I can reframe it and I honor myself,

19:13

and sometimes that's brutal.

19:16

Well, you have extraordinary

19:18

clarity around the tenets

19:20

of your story, which perhaps is part of like

19:23

again, what makes us the

19:25

most human is our ability to really

19:27

examine what our narratives are and to not

19:29

ignore them or just seek

19:32

out the bits that we like and ignore the other, but rather

19:34

see the whole and then holistically move forward.

19:36

It's really hard to do. I think it requires

19:39

a kind of brutality, not

19:42

brutal in the way that what I

19:44

see in the world right now, but I mean clarified

19:47

rather than brutal.

19:48

Well, because with that you

19:50

can't blame anyone. You're not a victim

19:53

of your own story. And really, the more people

19:55

you meet, everybody's had a thing like

19:57

I am not a victim. But having

19:59

said that, but I also know how to ask

20:01

for and put myself in situations that work

20:04

and make me feel good, and so those can

20:06

go part and parcel well.

20:08

I mean also because you've clearly became

20:10

an advocate for yourself, really yeah,

20:13

or maybe we're encouraged you as well by your coach,

20:15

like nobody can advocate

20:17

for you better than you. I don't know. I

20:19

think a lot of people want to be told what to do,

20:22

and I mean that in the nicest way. Like I

20:24

set up an art thing with a boyfriend when

20:26

I was like nineteen, and the art piece was

20:28

just the folding table in Portobello

20:31

Market in London, and we just had a tent card

20:33

that said advice. We just put

20:35

up a chair and then we sat on two chairs

20:37

and I was like, I'm nineteen. I

20:39

barely know how to tie my shoelaces.

20:42

I was like, how am I going to answer any questions? And he was like,

20:44

you just do the best you can, because really most people

20:46

want you to listen and offer a

20:48

little bit of advice. And that's exactly what

20:51

happened. Like we answer questions on infidelity

20:54

and the people's mortgage rates, whether

20:56

or not they should move in with someone. It was

20:58

crazy. People really want someone

21:01

else to tell them what to do. So I think

21:03

those moments of being able to believe

21:05

that you are your own advocate and that you actually

21:08

can give yourself good advice, I

21:10

think it's pretty rare, gabby to be

21:12

able to do that, and kind of amazing to have cultivated

21:15

that.

21:16

But you have to question yourself also at

21:18

every moment. Again, there lies another

21:20

duality, which is if

21:24

you're going to be a good steward

21:27

of your story, you better

21:30

pay attention and not think

21:32

you're right. So it's this weird

21:35

fine line of leaning into this is

21:37

the way to go and keep

21:40

paying attention keep questioning yourself,

21:42

where is this decision coming from? So

21:45

I think it's also staying

21:47

awake the whole time. So

21:49

you are steering the ship at least

21:51

hopefully more times than not, towards

21:54

the light or the right direction.

21:56

Yeah, to be aware of what

21:58

it is to be the captain of your ship. Yeah,

22:16

what relationship, real or fictionalized,

22:19

defines love for you?

22:22

That's an interesting question. I know this is probably

22:24

not great. I like to be surprised,

22:26

but I don't want to be surprised,

22:30

so like I'm great

22:32

with oh I didn't see that coming, but

22:35

I always sort of feel like with love

22:37

for me, and I really hope to be this for

22:39

somebody. Is I'm not really gonna

22:42

surprise you. It's not going

22:44

to be like oh I thought she was this, but.

22:46

Wow, she's that un steadiness

22:49

yes, but not fixed

22:51

right and with allowance and

22:54

movements.

22:54

So it's sort of like this big bubble that kind of bounces

22:57

around and it won't break, but it can kind

22:59

of motion bend, But the inside

23:01

of it is there's something sort of like

23:04

there's sort of a volume that you understand and

23:06

know. It's not a lot more or less.

23:08

So I try to be that

23:11

and really I don't need for

23:13

it to be great or perfect

23:15

and I'm not looking for someone to save me. And

23:17

you're not gonna tell me anything where I'm gonna be like ooh,

23:19

that's bad. Just be

23:22

congruent and I'm cool with it. And

23:25

I really want to be that and no,

23:28

no, tit for tat and

23:30

one for one. If I do

23:32

it, I'm going to do it because I want you and you owe

23:34

me nothing. And if

23:37

you do that for me too, I

23:39

would hope that that's the same.

23:41

Wow, it's very stoic. I

23:44

really like that. It speaks to like

23:46

proper ancient stoicism, that

23:49

notion of I will do what I say. I

23:52

will say what I do, and that's

23:54

what you can expect from me, and that is what I would most

23:56

appreciate from you. Would you say that's probably

23:58

having very clear boundaries around

24:00

what it is that you your expectation of a

24:02

person or the expectation of yourself.

24:04

Yeah. I think I'm much harder on myself than I

24:06

am on others. I think that I

24:08

have learned, especially through parenting and being in

24:10

a long relationship. I can barely

24:13

control myself. But that's going to be the person

24:15

I'm the hardest on and I'm not going

24:17

to be that hard on you. That's on you,

24:20

but just show me the truth.

24:22

Tell me the truth. And also I'm going to keep

24:24

moving. So the hope

24:26

would be if we're going to be in this

24:28

relationship, whatever relationship that is,

24:30

with the exception of my children, you

24:32

want to have forward motion in your own version,

24:35

and then we will know each other. I'm not

24:37

going to hang back because I can't.

24:40

Right, So, even if you're a movement side

24:42

to side or up and down, it's cool.

24:44

That is sort of like maybe we'll

24:46

meet kind of thing. I always tell

24:48

my girlfriends it's perfectly

24:51

healthy to ask yourself, what do I get

24:53

from this relationship, even if it's Hey,

24:55

Minnie is really bright and I like the way

24:57

she lives her life and with Laird, obviously,

24:59

I'm trying to to show up in

25:01

service, but you can bet I

25:03

do some inventory being like, also

25:06

when am I getting because otherwise I

25:08

don't know that that's honest.

25:10

Yeah, I agree, I do. I agree in

25:12

that inventory particularly, and

25:14

I think that that does really help to find love

25:16

for me as well, is that everybody is sort

25:18

of taking responsibility for their own personal inventory

25:21

within a relationship.

25:22

My kids are the only ones. Like I always

25:24

say, there's only one

25:26

group that I never go like, what am I getting

25:28

out of this? It's like, I'm your mom, I'm

25:31

going to be your mom. I'm going to be here.

25:37

In your life. Can you tell me

25:39

about something that has grown out

25:41

of a personal disaster.

25:43

Yeah, one of my daughters went through something

25:45

when she was thirteen. It's like the stuff you hope

25:47

never occurs, and you think, I'm

25:49

going to have a peaceful house, I'm going to be there, and

25:51

sometimes you realize your kids have a journey.

25:54

And I really got flipped upside down

25:56

on it. You think, are we going to get through

25:58

this? Is she going to get through this? And what came

26:01

out of that was a real opportunity

26:03

not only for her and I to grow closer

26:06

together, but for me to change as a person,

26:08

which was so wildly uncomfortable.

26:10

I mean, I wasn't that young. I was in

26:12

my forties. Anything could happen to

26:15

me, and it was not great. Even

26:17

as a young kid. For me, the

26:19

hardest would be when something happens to one of your

26:21

kids. And so I could say that

26:23

that certainly was

26:25

not only a wake up call, but I

26:27

have the opportunity to be a better

26:30

or different person from

26:33

something that was excrucinatingly

26:35

painful for her and for me.

26:38

And were you conscious of taking

26:40

those things that you learned

26:42

with you on and did she also

26:44

do you feel like take those lessons on with

26:46

her?

26:47

She absolutely did what I have learned

26:50

as a parent, and I know you can. Really you're

26:52

not really telling them anything, you're

26:54

modeling. Nobody really tells you. We

26:56

go like this, oh okay, and we do exactly

26:59

what we think. That's what we do. And my girls

27:01

are strong willed, imagine. So I

27:06

thought, I'm uncomfortable and I

27:08

resent the fact that I'm having to make

27:10

a change because the tendency is to be like, hey, I'm going to

27:12

drop my kid off, fix them, and I'll pick them back

27:14

up when they're fixed. And it's like yeah,

27:16

no, no, no, the whole group gets to

27:18

make a change. I think your kids really appreciate

27:21

that you go, I don't know, I'm

27:24

fumbling through, but I'm going to try. That

27:26

is powerful for them. Not that you

27:29

weren't.

27:29

Perfect, absolutely, not

27:31

that you weren't perfect exactly, and amazing

27:34

to see that behavior like that will

27:36

always be with not only

27:38

her, but I think probably with everyone else in your

27:41

family of going we went

27:43

through this thing and now we are on the other side

27:45

of that, and this is how it shaped us. And

27:47

I think it's amazing to be able

27:49

to look back positively on things that were extraordinarily

27:52

hard.

27:52

I remember clear as day going up into the

27:54

bathroom in my bedroom and

27:56

I literally stood six inches from

27:58

the mirror and looked into one of my eyeballs

28:01

and I was like, you're gonna have to keep

28:03

your shit together right now, because the impulse

28:06

was to go, Oh my god, like I'm gonna follow

28:08

apart and it was like, oh, yeah, no. And

28:10

I had a friend say to me, and I know people can relate

28:12

to this. We all get our turn and

28:15

our time in the chamber, and sometimes

28:17

we're gonna have to be there longer than when we want cool.

28:20

And I was like, oh shit, And

28:23

that's the thing. Sometimes

28:25

we can't just fix it and solve it right you.

28:27

We're gonna have to go all the way through it and

28:29

we think we're out of it and then all of a sudden you get

28:31

pulled back in. So just if anyone

28:34

is going through anything like that, just keep

28:37

asking for the answers, and

28:40

remember this, whatever we're going through,

28:42

if everyone's here, like

28:44

you know, Layedi says, if there's air going in and out

28:46

of the nose in the face, we

28:48

can work it all out. Whatever

28:51

it is, we can work it out.

28:55

And on that brilliant note,

28:58

I just l's philosophy

29:01

is their going in and out of the pace. It's

29:04

not over. It's true.

29:06

My oldest daughter, who is almost twenty nine, was

29:09

like going through something at nineteen

29:11

and he's like, oh my god, just make it to twenty

29:13

five. And I thought, oh,

29:16

yeah, that's right.

29:17

Wow, that's amazing,

29:20

it's really amazing. Is she

29:22

ready twenty nine?

29:23

I don't think you know that one. You know the

29:26

middle who's twenty and.

29:27

Okay, I didn't know you had an

29:30

older daughter.

29:30

Laird came with a He came with

29:32

a four month old.

29:34

That's right.

29:35

So I became a step parent at twenty

29:37

five. But see, my experience with living

29:39

with my aunt Or and uncle Joe when I was little

29:41

reminded me that love is love, and so

29:44

I didn't have to be her mom to be another

29:47

source of love, so that I had that lesson

29:49

early.

29:50

That's exactly how it is for my son and

29:52

my partner. His name's Addison,

29:54

and he we call him Daddison. They

29:57

have their own separate relationship that is amazing

30:00

and a source of great joy.

30:03

It's funny that the notion of convention can

30:06

keep us shackled to things having

30:08

to look a certain way. And I think

30:10

clearly empirically, so in

30:13

your own life, things didn't

30:15

look the way that the in quote should have

30:17

looked. But you grew and you got

30:19

some incredible thing from those people.

30:21

Yeah, and you don't get on each other's genetic

30:23

nerves. Imagine that. Yeah, my

30:26

daughter is so much like me. I'm like, oh my god. So

30:29

there's so many bonuses.

30:32

Oh, Gaby, thank you so much with

30:35

all my heart.

30:35

Thanks.

30:36

Mini Mini

30:39

Questions is hosted and written by Me

30:41

Mini Driver, Executive produced

30:44

by me and Aaron Kaufman, with

30:46

production support from Jennifer Bassett,

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Zoey Denkler, and Ali Perry. That

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theme music is also by Me

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and additional music by Aaron Kaufman.

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Special thanks to Jim Nikolay, Addison,

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Henry Driver, Lisa Castella,

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