0:02

I got such an angry letter from a Liz Fir fan

0:04

when you so kindly came and

0:06

did backing.

0:07

Vocals on So What one

0:09

of my songs.

0:10

One asked me to dance, and I got a letter from a person

0:12

going, don't advertise Liz Fair unless

0:15

she's going to actually be able to be heard

0:17

in the mix.

0:18

How dare you mix her down? How

0:20

dare she be a backing vocalist?

0:22

How dare you, Mini Driver, use Liz Fair

0:24

as you have used you use her own?

0:27

Oh God, and

0:29

so you had on the other country.

0:31

I moved to England.

0:34

Hello, I'm Mini Driver. I've

0:36

always loved Proust's questionnaire. It

0:38

was originally in nineteenth century

0:41

parlor game, where players would ask

0:43

each other thirty five questions aimed at

0:45

revealing the other player's true nature.

0:48

In asking different people the same set of

0:50

questions, you can make observations

0:52

about which truths appear to be universal.

0:55

And it made me wonder, what if these questions

0:57

were just the jumping.

0:58

Off point, what great day would be

1:00

revealed if I asked these questions

1:02

as conversation starters. So I

1:05

adapted Pru's questionnaire and I wrote my

1:07

own seven questions that I personally

1:09

think are pertinent to a person's story.

1:11

They are when and where were you happiest?

1:14

What is the quality you like least about yourself?

1:16

What relationship, real or fictionalized,

1:19

defines.

1:19

Love for you?

1:20

What question would you most like answered?

1:23

What person, place, or experience

1:25

has shaped you the most? What would be

1:27

your last meal? And can you tell me something

1:29

in your life that's grown out of a personal

1:32

disaster?

1:33

And I've gathered a group.

1:34

Of really remarkable people,

1:37

ones that I am honored and humbled

1:40

to have had the chance to engage with. You

1:42

may not hear their answers to all seven

1:44

of these questions. We've whittled it

1:46

down to which questions felt

1:48

closest to their experience or the most

1:50

surprising, or created

1:52

the most fertile ground to connect.

1:57

My guest today on many questions

1:59

is the recording artist Liz

2:01

Fair.

2:02

Liz is a unicorn.

2:04

By that, I don't mean that she's mythic,

2:07

because she's one of the realist people I know.

2:09

But she is rare and she

2:11

carved out.

2:12

Space for herself where she roamed wild

2:14

and free, and from what I can tell,

2:16

still does. Liz was

2:19

an iconic force right out of the gate.

2:22

From initial recordings under the Girly Sounds

2:24

banner. She was then signed and she released

2:26

her first album, Exile in Guyville, in

2:28

nineteen ninety three. And girls

2:30

just weren't singing and writing the songs

2:32

I heard on that record. They

2:34

were honest and factual, blunt

2:37

and sexual. I just thought

2:39

she was the coolest kind of feminist, and

2:41

she still is. She and I share a

2:43

similar sort of doomish

2:45

wisdom, where we think everything

2:48

good comes out of some kind of dead end,

2:50

constantly reimagining artistry and

2:53

continuing to explore life outside the box.

2:56

I am thrilled that my good friend

2:58

Liz agreed to come on the show today.

3:05

So, Liz Fair, where

3:07

and when were you happiest?

3:09

This is a dull answer,

3:12

but it's when I'm on vacation with friends

3:14

and family. I love the feeling

3:16

of being suspended. I

3:19

have a lot of trouble with rules in society,

3:21

although I'm also someone that appreciates

3:24

order, so it's a contradiction in

3:26

me. But I really love taking

3:28

everyone I love out

3:31

of context and being away

3:33

where you're outside of your norms,

3:35

you're outside of your roles, and

3:37

you're together somewhere, and I

3:40

feel a sense of freedom there. And I don't

3:42

think I ever feel more like myself

3:45

than when I'm on vacation, you

3:47

know what I mean, Like you just strip

3:49

off all of society and it just feels

3:51

so good. So I think I'm happiest

3:54

and freest when I'm outside

3:56

of the roles that we're given, that we're scripted.

3:59

That's pretty wild given that you

4:01

like the bell Weather rock and roller

4:04

creating her own reality literally

4:07

a one woman show band,

4:09

Like how does that fit in?

4:10

Like what?

4:10

Because it's so funny the way that you made it sounds like

4:12

it's kind of corporate the world that.

4:14

You're escaping from.

4:16

You know, all these rules and regulations, like

4:18

when you're on the stage.

4:21

To do with your monitors down?

4:24

What is it?

4:25

No, it makes sense, it's all of

4:27

it. If I'd come up now, maybe it

4:29

would have been. But I feel like when I came

4:32

up in the music business, every step

4:35

was convincing someone that I could do it,

4:37

or just taking the step and

4:39

then they're like, what are you doing? You took a step? What

4:41

did you take a step for? I'm walking

4:43

here, I'm walking, you know,

4:46

And so like every step

4:48

along the way felt like a

4:52

bravery test. Wow, you

4:54

know, like a

4:56

fight for the right to

4:59

be an art I know it sounds

5:01

stupid, but that's how I feel now.

5:02

It doesn't sound stupid at all. It doesn't sound

5:05

stupid at all.

5:05

The people that cut the path through

5:08

the field, who are up front with the

5:11

machete so that everybody else can travel

5:13

down that pathway. Like I always feel like

5:15

you were one of those women. Thank you, I did

5:17

that, So no wonder you're tired and

5:19

you want a bloody holiday. And that's why right.

5:29

Down you're always on alert

5:31

for the tigers. You know, you don't know what you're cutting

5:33

into. And a lot of times I know that in

5:35

my career I've ruffled feathers. Look

5:38

my poor fans, are you know, haranguing

5:41

you because I haven't been positioned right?

5:43

They also harangue me, you know, if

5:45

I haven't positioned myself correctly.

5:47

So can I just tell you

5:49

that it's so crazy because like hearing you

5:51

say that, like it makes me

5:54

want to punch something. The idea of

5:56

like being positioned right because for me.

5:58

You are. I can't.

6:00

It's important

6:03

for all these female artists. If you hadn't

6:05

done that, they wouldn't exist. So but

6:08

it's interesting that you the way that you feel

6:10

that you weren't positioned right. I

6:12

think you were positioned incredibly Like

6:15

in my heart and in so many millions

6:17

of people's hearts, you are. But I

6:19

understand that of sort of hitting a wall

6:22

and going wow, they don't they don't get

6:24

where I want to take this next.

6:26

Well, you went into music, and

6:28

you wrote a book, a beautiful book, a beautiful

6:30

memoir.

6:30

I've got to keep making.

6:32

All of those things are things that

6:34

no one gave you permission to do. You just

6:36

said, this is what's in me, and this is what I'm

6:39

going to do next. And I would imagine

6:42

some of your agents were a little

6:44

bit surprised at your musical detour.

6:47

Possibly, yeah, I mean they

6:49

definitely were like, well, that's it for you, love,

6:53

If you're going to move to Hawaii just

6:55

like lat music, goodbye,

6:57

good bye.

6:58

No one will remember you when you come back.

7:01

And largely they were sort of right, but

7:04

I think theyde underestimated how

7:07

much women are used to having to insist

7:10

on their space at the table, even

7:12

if you've left the table briefly for whatever your reasons

7:15

are, mental health, your soul, have

7:17

a child, the fact that we can't come

7:19

back and go yeah, I'm going to sit back down now.

7:21

Which is interesting. And you talk about roles. I

7:23

mean, until I moved to Hollywood, until I knew

7:26

artists like you, I didn't

7:28

realize that acting was

7:31

just another facet of their artistry,

7:34

That everyone who's an actor is

7:36

also an artist. Yeah, and

7:38

so there's so much more to them that,

7:40

you know, Hollywood doesn't have a use for just

7:43

do that acting thing, look more beautiful,

7:45

keep acting these people, these

7:49

large souls getting put into

7:51

small roles.

7:52

Yeah, or if you fall into the trip, the implied

7:55

insistence on youth and beauty,

7:57

and that if you don't subscribe

8:00

to that and end up looking this weird, homogenized

8:02

way that a lot of women look now from

8:05

having bowed to that pressure, it

8:07

doesn't work then either, because then

8:11

in a way you're then punished for having given in.

8:13

You've made yourself replaceable.

8:15

Yeah, but I mean, you know, I

8:17

feel like a lot of people have felt that way

8:19

about women aging anyway, But I don't

8:22

see women doing that. I see people writing

8:24

off ads about women doing that, But no one

8:26

I know does that. No woman I know

8:28

over the age of fifty is invisible. They

8:31

are the vibrant, most powerful versions of themselves.

8:34

I know, I don't understand that. It's almost

8:36

like fear mongering. I'll always

8:38

look up from an article. I'll be like, do I I don't

8:40

feel in.

8:41

If they shout more at the articles that I read

8:43

about you know, women and

8:45

aging and what it means

8:48

and aren't you worried about this? No, you're

8:50

worried about it. You're just getting the clickbait.

8:53

And I suppose I did click on it to read it.

8:55

Well, you always want to know what are they

8:57

saying. There is a sense of our people

8:59

to talking about this. But I mean I

9:02

watched my grandmother remarried twice

9:04

after the age of seventy. So I watched her

9:06

date.

9:07

I love that. Did

9:09

she have a great time doing it?

9:11

She did? And there was one that

9:13

she became like a teenager

9:15

giggly at the tate. We're like, what's up with

9:17

winky? Look at her? She's like like,

9:21

you know, like this laugh. This personality

9:24

comes out of your grandmother that you've never seen

9:26

before. So I think I had a

9:28

good role model in the sense that it

9:30

ain't over until it's over, and it's

9:32

such a brief life anyway, you

9:35

know, why on earth are you limiting yourself

9:37

in these seventy two hundred years

9:39

in any way, shape or form.

9:41

Yeah, because you see it reflected back in the

9:44

media, and it's it's only like that

9:46

if you say it is like, the more I've

9:48

thought about it, the more I genuinely

9:50

believe there is only the meaning

9:52

that we assign in this world, and

9:54

it's what lives in the same space. For me is

9:57

you get what you say, You get

9:59

what you say you worth. I think

10:01

you have to tell the story that

10:03

you want to live.

10:05

You really do that activity.

10:07

I have a great metaphor for this. At

10:09

one point in two thousand and

10:11

three, two thousand and four, there was a lot of

10:13

money being poured into promoting me, so

10:15

I was everywhere I was like under Capitol

10:18

Records, and I was very visible,

10:20

and so everywhere

10:23

I went there's this tension of if

10:25

people recognized you. But I realized

10:27

something at my own shows

10:30

that if I needed to leave the venue or go meet

10:32

someone and there's a line of people

10:35

outside my show waiting

10:37

to see me, if I walk

10:40

like it's no big deal, Like I'm just super

10:42

casually walking back, nobody

10:44

recognizes me. I can walk

10:46

past my own line casually

10:48

strong. But if I have like people

10:50

around me that're like, okay, we got to get her out of here,

10:53

everybody notices. So I'm

10:55

literally creating my own reality by

10:57

how I'm carrying myself and

11:00

how I see that situation, and it

11:02

stuck with me. How you carry

11:04

yourself to a large degree does

11:07

shape how you experience it

11:10

and what that means to you later on, and how

11:12

that sticks with you. So

11:16

if you want to be invisible as a woman, you

11:18

can carry yourself invisibly, or

11:21

you can carry yourself loudly.

11:23

Yeah, it's one of the things that bothers me most

11:25

about the way in which middle aged women they

11:27

speak about this invisibility.

11:29

I bought into it.

11:30

I was like, oh, yeah, that does happen, doesn't it. And I

11:32

was like, no, it doesn't. I remember calling

11:34

my mother really sad, one like genuinely

11:36

profoundly depressed, and going, I'm

11:39

so sad.

11:40

I don't know what to do. What do I do?

11:42

And she was like, oh, put on some lipstick, be

11:44

seen, put your face on, act

11:47

like it isn't what you are

11:49

saying is act like that and

11:52

see what happens.

11:53

I remember being so annoyed with her put

11:55

on.

11:56

Fucking red lipstick to act like I'm

11:58

happy when I'm sad.

12:00

It was completely right, though when they say

12:02

it visible, what they're really just saying is men

12:04

are not going to try to run you

12:07

down and conquer that for such that is.

12:09

That is exactly that is exactly right.

12:11

But I don't want to be run down and conquered

12:13

for sex anymore.

12:14

So enough of that. Oh I'm sick

12:16

of it. I'll tell you what I've been I've

12:18

been run over it

12:21

anymore. Frankly,

12:23

it's you're right.

12:25

It is to do with a woman's worth

12:28

being enforced and tethered

12:30

to this idea of desirability.

12:33

For sex specifically whatever.

12:35

Man, If that's really what it comes down to, just

12:38

like where you want to go and have sex.

12:41

Allow me to be invisible.

12:42

Let me maintain my invisibility, and I'll

12:45

get on and do all the really interesting shit that

12:48

doesn't involve, you know, ten

12:50

minutes of sex with you.

12:55

Oh my god, thank you for putting such a fine

12:57

point on that.

12:59

And now we can

13:04

I'll tell you my visibility over

13:06

a swift turn with you.

13:08

Love.

13:13

The articles never explained that part of it.

13:15

They never do. What

13:19

is it we're going to be seen by a swift

13:21

ten minutes. I

13:24

don't, I really

13:26

don't. I don't go and google

13:28

Sally Rooney and see what she's writing next.

13:31

Thank you off?

13:35

Oh God, what

13:50

relationship, real or fictionalized?

13:53

Defind love for you?

13:57

Okay?

13:58

Tell me.

13:59

I never knew this. In my twenties and

14:01

thirties, how I felt in relationships

14:04

was of paramount importance, and

14:07

it wasn't until I became a mother, and frankly,

14:10

it took fifteen years past that to

14:13

really understand that

14:15

if you love a person, you want

14:18

the best for them. You want

14:20

them to find their journey, you want

14:22

them to realize

14:24

their potential. And that's

14:27

the kind of love that I think is

14:29

the highest love. It's the best love.

14:31

It's the most rewarding love. It's

14:34

really hard to find, and it's really hard

14:36

to give. But to

14:38

love somebody and to love yourself

14:40

wanting the best for you and wanting you to

14:42

fulfill your highest potential,

14:46

that's real love. That's the kind of

14:48

love that if you break up and it's not right between

14:51

you, you can still look at the person and say,

14:53

I admire this person. There was a point

14:55

at which a relationship was something

14:58

that fulfilled me, that

15:00

I got something out of, and

15:02

then I morphed into

15:04

someone that wants the best

15:06

for the other person and only wants to date

15:09

someone that I would feel that way about.

15:12

Hmmm.

15:13

So distill it to what defines

15:16

love for you?

15:17

A lack of selfishness, a

15:19

keen interest and admiration

15:21

and feeling for a real

15:24

connection that you can't put

15:26

into words. But that doesn't

15:29

just consume, that doesn't

15:32

just say, oh great, when can we be together? What

15:34

can we do? But that listens

15:37

to what they want to do, What

15:39

are you trying to do with your life? What are your dreams?

15:42

And then supporting that. I guess

15:44

it's about only dating people that

15:47

you really already respect and admire

15:50

as people individuals, not

15:52

meshing, not going to that full

15:54

mesh that I did in my twenties.

15:57

Do you know what I'm saying.

15:58

About, Like, yeah, full mesh for the

16:00

birds?

16:01

Well, I mean it was fine. Those

16:03

are the epics stories and the fights in the

16:05

street and the like ro Julia

16:07

and the steaks or something. No, I'm

16:10

not into that.

16:11

I'm too tired for that.

16:12

But I also don't want I don't want ten minute

16:14

sex. But I also don't want that. I

16:16

don't want I don't want that screaming

16:18

in the streets you to actualize.

16:21

I want you to have what you want in life, and

16:23

I want to be there for the ride.

16:25

But it's about respect, right, respect

16:28

and recognition. And you're right about

16:30

liking who they are and that you

16:33

support that despite the compromise that it might be to

16:35

your own life, because you love them, because that's actually

16:37

what what love is.

16:39

I think that's interesting.

16:41

You want the best for them.

16:42

Have you got that?

16:44

No? And I remember a boyfriend telling me

16:46

that that's what it was, and I wanted to punch

16:49

him. I really did. I was like, take

16:51

your Hallmark guard and hit the road.

16:53

But he was right.

16:54

I hate it when someone tells you something that's right

16:57

and then you know they were right, and then

17:00

you have to carry that around.

17:02

Yeah it is. I don't

17:04

have the relationship back, but I took the

17:07

advice.

17:07

Then you profited from that.

17:09

No do I have that now?

17:10

No?

17:10

I do not. It's very hard to find. But I

17:12

also don't trifle with possibles.

17:15

If I don't feel deep compulsion

17:17

that this person is connecting

17:20

with me, I think of it as chakras.

17:22

If they're not lighting up five of those chakras

17:25

at once. I'm not going to bother.

17:27

Oh my god, that's so great. It's like a traffic light system.

17:29

That's fantastic. Yeah, I'm

17:32

sorry, and there's all three lights are going. We

17:34

don't have anything happening. Yeah,

17:36

that makes it very practical.

17:40

You have an internal traffic.

17:41

And if you're friends, that can always

17:43

change because you know, you'll fall

17:45

in love if it's not ten minutes,

17:47

if it's half an hour's eare and

17:50

it's satisfying.

17:51

Listen, I'm giving ten minutes. I'm giving ten.

17:53

Minutes a bad app there's a good version

17:55

of ten minutes. It's just the people that are cooling

17:58

women invisible over the age of fifty, and not

18:00

that people have a good ten minute sex.

18:02

Okay, that's the that's the fucking

18:04

deal right there.

18:05

But that fellow, But

18:09

I'll take a good ten minutes.

18:10

This is all the truth you need.

18:12

I'll take a good ten minutes with my boyfriend any day

18:14

of the week.

18:14

God damn right.

18:16

Yeah, but he's

18:18

also probably a forty five minute or a ten

18:20

minute or a five minute or and any sort

18:22

of thing.

18:23

He's all the minutes. Indy,

18:25

Oh, the minutes I need.

18:28

I think we should drive a song. He's

18:32

old minutes.

18:35

And we can even have parts of it. We're like fifteen

18:39

minutes now, you know, No, it's like twenty

18:41

minutes.

18:42

Now.

18:46

Hi, my name's twenty minutes

18:48

and I'm a mid point in your day.

18:52

Hi, my name's two minutes. I'm

18:54

a knee trembling in the kitchen.

18:58

I'm your launch pray.

19:02

It's Friday, Sunday

19:05

afternoon.

19:12

He's all minutes in the hour, so

19:15

he's all a minutes by me.

19:16

Oh my godnes on a Tuesday.

19:18

By the way, I'm definitely writing the song.

19:20

I'm going to send it to you.

19:27

All right, Angel in your life,

19:29

can you tell me about something that has grown

19:31

out of a personal disaster?

19:34

The knee jerk reaction is everything's

19:36

grown out of personal disaster.

19:37

I like that.

19:39

Correct way to say is I

19:42

see personal disaster as opportunities.

19:45

Not at the moment, but I always keep that in the back

19:48

of my mind. So if

19:50

you consider the fact that I was adopted,

19:52

I came right out of a personal disaster

19:55

into a pretty good situation. And

19:59

you know, though I I wanted to be a visual artist,

20:02

the personal disaster of me

20:05

sort of having my I'm not going

20:07

to school anymore. I hate everything, I hate everyone.

20:10

That personal disaster wrote Guyville,

20:13

and so then the personal disaster of

20:16

oh god, now it's my job to perform

20:18

on stage that personal

20:20

disaster. Or when I was having trouble

20:22

with my record company, well,

20:25

I have a college degree. I could write a book,

20:28

you know. So everything comes

20:30

out of a dead

20:32

end. For me. Everything

20:34

that I've done that has really impressed

20:36

me about myself has come

20:38

out of a dead end where something

20:41

isn't working out. And that may

20:44

just be that I value those experiences

20:46

more because I overcame something. But personal

20:50

disaster for me equates with growth.

20:53

So anytime I break something or someone breaks

20:55

me, even in the depths of it, and

20:57

trust me, I'm going to go hide in a cave for about

21:00

six months. It's just been my experience

21:02

on life like that is what happens.

21:04

Necessity is the mother of invention. That is

21:07

the truism. But it's true,

21:09

and it's extremely useful

21:12

in my life because otherwise there's no rhyme or

21:14

reason to what I've done in my life.

21:16

Young people should remember that exactly.

21:19

It's just like wait a minute, just let it breathe

21:21

when it's really bad, give it a second.

21:29

What person, place, or experience most altered

21:31

your life.

21:32

I'm so happy we have arrived at this question.

21:35

Music, music industry,

21:37

music business, music fans, playing

21:39

music, performing music. You know,

21:41

I got into this business to be recording

21:44

artists and never thought that I

21:46

would have to perform said music.

21:49

And it has been something that I

21:52

have had to learn how to do, had

21:54

to learn how to love, had to

21:57

get better at and it has

22:00

changed me so profoundly that

22:02

it's hard to even explain. But sometime

22:05

around two thousand and five, I

22:08

was a new mom. I had a six year old

22:10

and I was teaching him about

22:12

singing, and I realized that opening

22:14

my heart to be a better

22:17

singer was not about technique. For me, it

22:19

was about not strangling my voice,

22:22

not feeling that shyness.

22:24

It's always for me about letting

22:26

you see me, letting myself be vulnerable

22:29

in front of people, and the fact

22:31

that given a choice, I would

22:34

never do that, and that because

22:36

of my job. It's been the

22:38

work of my life. Has

22:40

made me such a better person in

22:42

so many ways. It never lets me totally

22:45

put roots down because I'm always

22:47

being asked can you give more? Can

22:49

you give something new of yourself? Can

22:51

you open up again? And

22:54

that has shaped me in ways

22:56

that I'm deeply grateful for. Wow,

23:01

because I wouldn't have you wouldn't know. I would

23:03

have been like I would have been a know it all. I would

23:05

have sat back and been like, I don't do that. But

23:08

now I can never say I don't do that. I don't know.

23:10

Maybe I do do that. I don't know, because

23:13

the thing that I would least like to do became

23:15

my job.

23:17

What did you think you were going to do?

23:19

Sit back and make records, make art,

23:21

make visual art? Maybe right, anything

23:24

behind the scenes, nothing in front of the camera.

23:27

Who made you go in front of the camera?

23:30

People fans?

23:32

When you made a record, you must have known that you were going to

23:34

have to go out and tour that and promote it

23:37

and get on stage.

23:37

No. No, I

23:40

was twenty six. I had fully

23:42

prepared and trained to be a visual artist.

23:45

I had my whole life set out. I knew I'd have a

23:47

studio. I fantasized about being like

23:49

on the East Coast, you know, and having the

23:51

life of the house and then my studio

23:53

next to it. HM, that would

23:56

be my fantasy.

23:57

Wow, wow, but

23:59

you anyway.

24:00

I did it anyway, I mean not just anyway.

24:03

I did it and did it and did it, and like I

24:05

said, the biggest gift was

24:08

the thing that I wanted to avoid, and

24:10

that lesson never left me. Now

24:12

I always know if

24:15

something comes up and I'm like, you

24:17

know, she'll probably do it, and maybe I should, maybe I

24:19

shouldn't, but like I could, I

24:21

could try.

24:22

I love that. Yeah, I love

24:25

that like I could. My

24:28

mother was like that till the very end.

24:29

She was eighty four, and probably a month before

24:32

she died, she didn't know she was going to

24:34

die.

24:34

She'd started a new business

24:37

because she.

24:38

Was like, I love it because because

24:40

I want to and there's like a gap and because I

24:42

can and I'm doing it, and she did

24:44

it, and that whole notion of

24:47

yeah, you see something that you can't do, you go, yeah,

24:49

but I could.

24:50

I don't feel like doing that, Yeah, but I could. I

24:53

could do that. I love that

24:55

that.

24:55

There is only the limit that you put

24:58

upon yourself. That you say, that is andy

25:00

invisible cloak that you.

25:01

Put on yourself.

25:03

There is only that sort of stifling

25:05

of your thoughts.

25:06

They're fragile, you know, they can

25:09

be shattered. I love that chapter. But may

25:11

I talk about your memoiral like that chapter

25:13

about your mom passing. There was brutal

25:16

parts about it, but the

25:19

eloquence with which you described

25:21

the love you have for her and how she was determined

25:24

the Duchess, I mean, like, it's just that

25:28

was such a satisfying and beautiful

25:32

chapter to explain a

25:35

daughter's love. And it was complicated,

25:37

and it was filled with so much

25:40

stuff, and there were things you wouldn't even try

25:42

to put into words, you

25:44

know, the way you would sit by her, and how quickly

25:46

you were rousable from

25:48

your sleep, the way you had been when your

25:50

son was so young, Like that

25:53

just meant a lot to me as my parents

25:55

are getting older, and just thank

25:58

you. It meant a lot to me. And I think

26:00

that you have a very powerful way of

26:02

opening up private experiences

26:06

to a very

26:09

broad encompassing lens. That's so it's

26:12

really thank.

26:12

You, Thank you so much, thank

26:14

you.

26:15

It's just an exploration, as you know, it's.

26:17

Just like go on a journey.

26:19

That's a hard relationship to define,

26:22

and you did it so beautifully without defining

26:24

it.

26:24

Thank you.

26:25

She sounds like she was a very formative

26:27

love.

26:28

She was always slightly out of reach, like

26:30

I could never quite get her, and

26:32

then obviously death has been the ultimate.

26:35

Oh my god, she got away. I

26:37

never quite. But that's

26:40

that you.

26:41

Wrote a song about you.

26:43

And what she like, what she inspired

26:47

because there was no the

26:50

idea of her being an arrival point. That

26:53

that has been like rocket fuel in my life

26:55

to keep exploring. And

26:58

it's not about not being satisfied, but staying

27:00

curious about how do we keep

27:03

feeling in this world that's

27:05

so hard?

27:07

How do you keep.

27:07

Having fragile feelings and experiences.

27:10

She taught me how to do that because it's what she did,

27:12

and she went out chasing whatever came

27:14

next in a way.

27:16

Always Yeah, yeah, I

27:19

respect that so much. I

27:21

mean, starting a business while you're on your deathbed,

27:24

that's something I'd like.

27:25

To do, Yeah, totally, whilst also watching the football

27:27

and telling us all what we needed to do.

27:29

Yeah. No, she was immense, amazing,

27:32

she was immense.

27:33

That's what you gave word to Our

27:36

mothers are immense. They

27:38

are immense, and that's what you cant

27:40

you.

27:40

Thank you, Thomy, thank you so much.

27:56

All right, I better ask you the next question otherwise,

27:58

well, next question, what

28:01

is the quality you like least about yourself.

28:04

I thought about this for a long time. There's

28:07

a lot of qualities I don't like about myself,

28:09

but the most I think troublesome

28:13

to my The way I want to come across

28:15

is impatience. I

28:17

am impatient. It's

28:20

very hard for me to slow it down and

28:23

let things unfold if

28:26

I think I know where they're going, and

28:28

I miss a lot. I miss

28:30

people by doing that, I miss

28:33

letting them unfold.

28:35

Hmmm.

28:35

So I like that least about myself.

28:37

Hmmm.

28:38

Do you take steps to I don't know have self

28:41

correct is the right word, because that that

28:43

all sounds a bit like you need a writing

28:45

crop.

28:46

What do you I do? I

28:48

could use it.

28:50

I need to whip myself.

28:56

Listening. I practice

28:59

listening, as we were talking about before with

29:01

my career, trying to always step where

29:03

no one has given me permission to step. That

29:06

can create a you kind of a

29:09

not pushing us, but like a I hear

29:11

no, but I'm seeing you

29:13

know maybe that kind

29:15

of like let's try this. So letting

29:18

things happen to me, letting myself go

29:20

through things without speeding

29:23

it up or escaping it.

29:24

That makes sense, Yeah, totally.

29:26

I mean I think a lot of it is wrapped up with like again

29:29

having to be the

29:32

herald of your own work. Like also, you weren't

29:34

in a band like it

29:36

was you, like that's how

29:39

you presented yourself, and

29:41

you're writing all the songs, so there had to be

29:44

probably quite a lot of people that needed to be tuned

29:46

out who were telling you what to

29:48

do. It's interesting, though,

29:50

a really useful tool then becomes something

29:52

that as we evolve,

29:56

it's like, oh, that thing

29:58

that served me so well, then perhaps that part

30:00

of me has to evolve so that now it actually does

30:02

listen, now that it's not a survival technique.

30:04

Not listening, that's it.

30:06

You've just encapsulated perfectly

30:09

growing up because whatever

30:12

characteristics you had in childhood,

30:14

they were adaptive. You're doing

30:16

the best in the environment that you had, and this

30:18

is how you made it through whatever

30:20

you were going through. And if you're lucky

30:23

enough to get control of your life to

30:25

some extent, you can look at those things. Since

30:27

for so much of my life I just kept

30:30

going. It worked before, just keep going,

30:33

and it wasn't until my forties I

30:35

think that I stopped and said, yeah,

30:38

but the same problems keep popping

30:41

up, like the same failures keep

30:44

happening. And so I

30:46

had to kind of pull apart as

30:48

we do our psychology

30:50

and look at it and think about what if

30:52

I changed my mind and

30:56

I approach everything that way. Now I'm

30:58

going to change myself before I'm going to change

31:01

anyone else.

31:02

That's so good. I got to try and do that

31:04

more.

31:05

It's hard. I don't succeed all the time,

31:07

believe me, It's just what I try to do.

31:09

It is interesting, though, when one realizes,

31:13

you know, we've all had to learn how

31:15

to actually be kinder to ourselves. As

31:18

my friend Emma said one day, yeah, but are

31:20

you being too kind to yourself?

31:23

Do you not need to be a little bit tougher with yourself?

31:26

I was like, and

31:29

she's absolutely correct.

31:31

Now and now I think about.

31:32

Being the common denominator in all my shit.

31:35

And even though I used to beat myself

31:37

with that, then I kind of forgave myself completely

31:39

and let myself off the hook. And the weird thing is that

31:41

there's this whole part I just never evolved because it

31:43

was like, look, either you have never found the middle way

31:45

of going It's okay for

31:48

this fallibility and this shit, but

31:50

just let it remind you in a more robust

31:52

way as opposed to I'm either

31:55

going to pretend it's not there and like love myself

31:57

and it's not about me, it's about them,

32:00

beat myself like that. There's somewhere in the

32:02

middle. I think that's actually what middle age

32:05

is, is that you find the fucking middle path. Everyone's

32:07

so busy talking about your wrinkles, they don't realize

32:09

it.

32:09

It's actually quite sweet.

32:11

I'm not living in a quite

32:13

such a polarized way

32:16

with yourself.

32:17

The extreme. Yeah, it's easy

32:20

to shift into the extreme, like go go go that

32:22

way, go go go this way.

32:24

That was my twenties and thirties right there.

32:27

That's it. That's my next book. It's just going to

32:29

be that.

32:29

It's just going to say that's

32:35

fair.

32:35

Wrote my next book.

32:36

That's what it.

32:37

Don't be called by

32:39

many driving.

32:42

I love you Mini, thank you so much for

32:45

this, and thank you for your memoir.

32:47

It was very personally meaningful.

32:48

To thank you so so much.

32:50

Angel, really really really and also

32:52

really hope to see you.

32:53

Back in California.

32:54

Let's do it.

32:55

I mean allor

33:00

right, Angel, Hi, take

33:02

care of yourself.

33:04

We'll see Sue See Sue, Hi Love

33:06

Bye. Mini

33:09

Questions is hosted and written by Me,

33:12

Mini Driver Executive

33:14

produced by Me and Aaron Kaufman,

33:16

with production support from Jennifer Bassett,

33:19

Zoey Denkler and Ali Perry.

33:21

The theme music is also by.

33:23

Me and additional music by

33:26

Aaron Kaufman. Special thanks

33:28

to Jim Nikolay Addison, O'Day,

33:31

Henry Driver, Lisa Castella,

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a, Nick Oppenheim, A, Nick Muller and

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Annette wolf A w kPr,

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