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1:16

That's R-E-B-A-G-1-0. This

1:25

week's episode of Listen Bitch contains

1:28

very strong language and some

1:30

adult themes as well. It's

1:42

time for Listen Bitch. Nini, this is

1:44

all yours. This is all yours today. I'm

1:46

gonna say nothing. No, that's not fair. I

1:48

made it quite clear last week and you

1:51

agreed that you were going to join in

1:53

and you weren't gonna let me just take

1:55

all of the flack like I normally do.

1:57

Listen, bitch, I've got notes. I've got notes.

2:00

Don't worry about me how you know

2:02

going into with that in that league

2:04

and into posts and into the home

2:06

page Jesus who put from the solo

2:08

it's know I just need you take

2:10

us to the bridge as it was

2:12

take off to the Blue Ridge. Just

2:16

say welcome to Misadventures Wow!

2:18

Can say listen fit. This

2:20

week we are talking about.

2:24

Love history. I. Say.

2:29

I've written some stuff down, I've done some

2:31

historical research he of my life and how

2:34

the patriarchy is effect Sit it. But for

2:36

now on know you guys think I say

2:38

we take this to the floor immediately know

2:40

who I'm Really just want to learn this

2:42

episode on. No, I haven't got much to

2:44

say. just one alarm. Size.

2:47

Suffice to love to have

2:49

our Sos moment of ah.

2:52

Education of the Patriarchy.

2:56

Is time to time. Hi Lily on

2:58

love you Poco So thank you very

3:00

much to me improve the last few

3:02

weeks mornings when a coup or live

3:05

in a small village called mobile he

3:07

was just the signals and on a

3:09

bow and sixty or seventy miles south

3:11

of Manchester to say that you understand

3:13

exactly where on my arms and of

3:16

you Drew Griffin My question is when

3:18

didn't dawn on you have this a

3:20

patriarchal system. What? Was the moment

3:22

would experience on what did

3:24

you do? Thank you thank.

3:26

You Michael the I Do I live really

3:28

kicks announcing thing about my a little and

3:30

house you live in what is your street

3:33

that like so yes and love the details.

3:35

Of the specificities, I'm.

3:38

Not unique Assist. With sea sauce says realize

3:40

that we live in a picture of his. Think

3:43

it might have been day me.

3:46

My. First. Single. Smile

3:49

as is my second single. I.

3:51

Went to number one in the chart. And

3:54

I was at T in the Park festival

3:56

and I was interviewed by I Think It

3:58

with someone from the and. me. And

4:02

they said, how are you going to celebrate your

4:04

number one? And I made a joke, as I

4:06

often do, that I was

4:08

going to engage in some,

4:11

you know, drug taking

4:13

and drinking, because we'd had

4:17

this we were having a conversation about

4:19

drugs in the music industry, me and this

4:21

journalist. And so then to follow up from

4:24

that conversation that we've been having about basically

4:26

how rice cocaine was in the music industry

4:28

at executive level. And so then at the

4:30

end of the conversation that I was having

4:33

with this guy who was like in his

4:35

mid 20s, maybe late 20s,

4:38

early 30s from the enemy. And,

4:41

and then he said, Oh, boy, how are you going to celebrate your

4:44

number one single? And I went, probably, I was

4:46

like, oh, and then the next day,

4:48

I think it was, you

4:50

know, a Sunday. And so it was a

4:53

front page of the

4:55

then news of the world. And

4:57

it was like, Lily Allen says she's

4:59

going to celebrate her number one single

5:01

with plates of cocaine. Now you might

5:04

think, Oh, that doesn't seem that

5:06

strange that that would be sensationalized

5:08

in such a way. But take into

5:10

account, my dad was, you know, an

5:13

actor and hung out with some

5:15

very famous showbiz people who were

5:17

all male, and all engaged in

5:20

these kind of activities, and were pretty vocal

5:22

about it. So, and I had

5:24

watched them all talk quite freely and

5:26

openly about the way that they spent

5:29

their spare time. And, and

5:32

so wrongly assumed that I would be able

5:34

to speak about these things in the same

5:36

way, without it being sensationalized

5:38

and euthanized and used against me in such a

5:40

way. Why was it

5:43

wrong? Oh, yes, you are.

5:45

I remember I was on, I was traveling

5:47

around the country for I think, people some

5:49

at all. And I read I remember seeing

5:51

that in the papers and thinking, Jesus Christ,

5:53

this is a lot. It was cute.

5:55

It was like, just, just that

5:57

language. Like I think it I think

5:59

they genuinely say plates of cocaine or something like that and

6:02

I was like this is bad. I think I had said

6:04

plates of cocaine to be fair

6:06

to them. It was a quote but it was just

6:08

that it was sensational. It was like the

6:11

front, the big headline on the news of

6:13

the world. I'd only just gone to number

6:15

one. I wasn't even around

6:18

for a couple of months so it was kind of like it

6:21

was very crazy. But yes I

6:23

think that was when I realised

6:25

okay, okay there's a different

6:27

set of rules for boys and girls,

6:29

men and women. I

6:32

think mine would probably be the writer's room

6:34

in Potwell when I was about 16 and

6:36

I said something was not funny and

6:41

I didn't think that was a big thing to say

6:43

because it wasn't funny. It was like a pun, you

6:45

know how much I hate a pun and

6:47

I think it involved the word smorgasbord and

6:49

I was like this is bullshit and they

6:51

were like what? You don't think

6:53

this is funny? And I was like no. And

6:56

they were like well have you got, you have to think it's like better

6:58

then. I was like okay. And I

7:00

was like oh right I'm not allowed to think that you're

7:02

not a genius and this is

7:04

dog shit and you know it. So

7:07

I quite like continuing

7:09

to test that theory. I

7:12

don't think men like being told they're not

7:14

geniuses. No, no. It's

7:18

not fun. But yeah thank you. Thank

7:20

you Michael. Thank you. Can we have

7:22

another question for Lissenbitch, the

7:25

patriarchy. Hi it's Liz from Eastbourne.

7:28

We've gone patriarchy-like with this question.

7:30

I would love to know of

7:32

any famous men you've come across

7:34

in your time in your careers

7:36

who were feminists. I'd love to

7:39

hear about some strong feminist

7:42

famous men that you have come across

7:44

that you could tell us about. Thanks.

7:46

That's nice. Patriarchy-lite. Thanks

7:48

Liz. I'll not step on

7:50

anyone. While

7:55

talking about the patriarchy. It's a nightmare.

8:00

Let's keep it light, let's keep it peppy. Lil, what's your

8:02

answer to that question? It's a bit of a

8:04

difficult little answer. Um, I... I

8:08

would say... I'm not my

8:11

husband. My husband is

8:13

famous and he is a feminist. That's

8:16

true. He's true. What

8:19

would you say makes you cool? Why

8:21

would you say that David is a feminist? What

8:23

about him? What about his actions and his moves? Makes

8:26

you feel that way. I think

8:28

maybe it's because he is

8:30

very sensitive to, um,

8:33

you know, my resistance

8:36

to, you know,

8:38

a marriage that adheres to sort of

8:41

like gender norms or societal norms. You

8:43

know, he can see how uncomfortable

8:46

things make me and

8:50

he's very good at helping

8:52

me navigate and negotiate those things. So like,

8:54

you know, I remember once

8:57

when he... We went on a

8:59

holiday and he paid for the whole holiday and that

9:01

never happened to me before. Like, I'd always paid for

9:03

everything and it came out in other ways. Like, we

9:05

were arguing about something and he took me and said,

9:07

can I just have a word with you? And I

9:10

was like, yeah, sure. And he took me off and

9:12

he was just like, no, look. I

9:16

know this makes you very uncomfortable.

9:19

And that's okay. It's okay. I love

9:21

you. I love your children. I

9:23

love this. It's an

9:25

absolute pleasure for me to treat you

9:27

guys to this experience. You don't owe

9:29

me anything. You don't have to do

9:31

anything in return. And I was

9:34

like, shit, I married the right

9:36

person. She knows me and loves me. What

9:38

will I do? No, but he's very good.

9:40

I don't think many people... Well,

9:42

I don't... I'm not going to speak for

9:44

men because I wasn't even articulating or vocalizing,

9:46

but he was able to see exactly what

9:49

was winding me up that

9:51

I didn't want to be... whatever. I

9:54

digress. I get it, babe. I love him

9:56

too. I love him too. question

10:00

I don't think I have a famous one they're all

10:02

unfamous the one that I can

10:04

think of. Matty Healy he's a big old feminist. There

10:07

you go, there you

10:09

go. Steve

10:14

Jones, Steve Jones is a feminist. I

10:16

was going to say Steve Jones but

10:18

I've already talked about Steve Jones so

10:20

we'll just go with Matty Healy. Next

10:22

question. Such a big old feminist. Such

10:25

an incredible feminist. Next question

10:27

please, so listen bitch. Hi Lilly,

10:29

hi Makita. My name is

10:32

Josh. I'm from New Jersey in the United

10:34

States. Question for you

10:36

both about the patriarchy. I

10:38

was wondering if you have any favorite art

10:41

that is reflective of a

10:43

woman's experience living in the patriarchy or

10:45

something that shows how bad the patriarchy

10:47

is or is a good portrayal of

10:50

showing the patriarchy in a way

10:53

that's productive. I guess

10:55

just to plug as a fan really quick I

10:57

think a really good example of something that comes

10:59

out of the patriarchy, Lilly, is your song not

11:01

fair because it's all about men

11:03

focusing on their own pleasure and not the pleasure of

11:05

a woman. So I'm

11:07

just curious. Love you both and if

11:10

you take this question, thanks and yeah

11:12

have a great day. Bye. Thanks

11:15

Josh. I love when Americans say my name. Makita

11:17

is hot. Thanks Josh. Oh

11:19

that's nice. I agree with

11:21

Josh about that. It's

11:23

not fair. It's about a woman's right

11:25

to pleasure in sex. A woman's right to

11:27

pleasure in sex. Look at you you bloody

11:29

feminist. I was talking such shit I didn't even

11:32

have an orgasm at that point. I

11:34

know I regret. I'm

11:36

so about to say at

11:39

that time you were only at the

11:41

beginning of your sexual pleasure journey

11:44

awakening. Well quite. So

11:47

how did you step in those, how did you

11:49

get into that headspace? You

11:51

just sort of women their needs all around the world? No

11:54

I guess maybe it was because I wrongly

11:56

had assumed that my way to an orgasm

11:58

was going to be a... man giving it

12:00

to me and that

12:03

hadn't happened yet and

12:05

so I was cross I was very cross.

12:08

People don't know this about me but I'm

12:10

a big Taylor Swift fan. There's

12:13

a song of hers called The Man. Do

12:16

you know it? Do you know the song? No I

12:18

don't think so. The chorus goes I'm so sick

12:20

of running as fast as I can wondering

12:23

if I'd get there quicker if I

12:25

was a man and I'm so sick

12:27

of them coming at me again. If

12:30

I was a man and I'd

12:32

be the man I'd be the

12:34

man. Yeah? Yeah?

12:37

Yeah? I'd be

12:39

the man. Yeah? Everything

12:41

sounds like a nursery rhyme from Taylor Swift and not

12:43

in a rude way.

12:45

I'm not being derogatory. I think she's very clever.

12:47

They say I'd hustled put

12:50

in the work they wouldn't shake their heads

12:52

and question how much of this sounds good.

12:54

Okay okay we definitely don't have the right

12:56

fees you just keep singing the whole song. Well

12:58

there we go Taylor Swift I love

13:00

your song The Man. David and I

13:02

debate it quite often because he it's

13:04

not his favorite Taylor Swift song and

13:07

it's one of my favorite I think

13:09

the lyrics are very clever and he

13:11

does not. She's very clever at writing

13:13

very simplistic sort of nursery

13:15

rhyme sounding songs

13:17

but actually she's saying something in

13:20

the background. Yeah. She's nice. She's

13:22

undeniably smart. She is exactly. The

13:25

only artist I've ever made a

13:27

billion dollars from music. She's not

13:29

an idiot. News slash. No. Can

13:32

we have another question on Listen Bitch?

13:34

4 Listen Bitch? 2 Listen Bitch? Hello

13:37

Nikita and Lily is Dan here from

13:39

London. About 18 months ago my husband

13:41

and I had a gorgeous daughter, Hargo

13:43

Lily, by a surrogacy in America and

13:46

we've got a little boy just about

13:48

to be born in May.

13:50

Now we're always talking about as two

13:52

dads what the best way to bring

13:55

our daughter up is and we always

13:57

want to make sure she's used to

13:59

it. living the fullest,

14:01

most brilliant, strongest, most incredible

14:04

life. And I would

14:07

love your advice on what tips you

14:09

think we should give her as two

14:11

dads to overcome the patriarchy. Do

14:13

you know what? I just remembered

14:16

something from a previous question, a famous

14:18

male in the world that is a

14:20

brilliant, true feminist is Loyal Connor. He

14:22

was doing for People in America. He

14:24

does well in America, but Loyal Connor's

14:26

a rapper, a musician, he's more

14:28

than a rapper, he's just an artist, he's

14:30

brilliant, and he's a great man, and a

14:32

friend of mine and my mum's. And he

14:36

was doing a six music residency,

14:38

and it was banging, and one

14:40

episode was about, it was

14:42

Mother's Day. And the way he spoke

14:44

about his partner, his girlfriend,

14:46

and his mother, I

14:48

was kind of bowled over by just

14:50

the love he has for women, proper,

14:53

it's true and it's real. And it

14:55

made me think that if

14:57

you're, I know you're raising a daughter, but if

14:59

you were raising sons, it's like how do you

15:01

raise sons to truly love women? And I

15:04

think as a woman, you know, you're raising

15:06

a daughter, as a woman, that's what stands out to

15:08

me when you know that a man has been raised

15:10

to truly love women. That

15:13

for me feels really good. I don't know whether

15:15

that answers the question that you asked, but I

15:17

just wanted to make that point. Because you're raising

15:19

daughters as well, Lil. I am raising

15:21

daughters. I guess language,

15:24

I think, is important.

15:26

I think there are so many words

15:29

that on the surface seem quite

15:32

inoffensive or that

15:35

actually can be quite insidious

15:37

when they're sort of used

15:39

every day. And words that

15:41

would, that you hear

15:44

being used in conjunction with women or girls that

15:46

there isn't really like a male equivalent for. Right,

15:49

like what? Like

15:52

bitchy or nag

15:55

or, you know, do you not

15:57

hear people go like, he's a bit cold. It's

16:00

not really a word associated with men. For

16:03

women maybe like intense

16:05

or stroppy. Forward. You

16:07

just sound like the Daily Mail now.

16:11

Shrill. Shrill

16:13

is a good one. Shrill.

16:15

Isn't that interesting though, that word? Because

16:17

it's literally like the

16:19

sound of a woman's voice

16:22

irking another human being. Just

16:24

the sound of a woman's voice. So basically

16:26

a woman existing and having space and a

16:28

voice. Language

16:30

is a big one. Point though.

16:32

Yes and even when you're talking

16:34

about the way women look, just

16:37

words like, oh you know that's

16:39

flattering. He's

16:42

really let himself go. Never said to be

16:44

a man, ever. Babe

16:48

you look a bit frumpy in that to be honest. I

16:53

used to really like you in that shirt but it looks a

16:55

little bit frumpy. Maybe we should

16:57

do an experiment and try and use some of this

16:59

language again. I don't think I've ever spoken to a

17:01

boy like this. Well you know what actually I was

17:03

looking last night on the

17:05

Daily Mail website just to see what the some

17:07

of the adjectives used for women

17:10

versus men are because there's always like you

17:12

know the person's name and then an adjective

17:14

right. Yes. Nicola

17:16

Pelt suffers unexpected

17:19

backlash. Nicola Pelt's

17:21

Brooklyn Beckham's wife. Henry

17:23

Cavill reveals he is

17:25

expecting his first child. Johnny

17:28

Depp embraces his co-star.

17:32

Salma Hayek puts on a busty display

17:34

as she shows off her chest. Justin

17:40

Bieber makes surprise

17:42

return. Nikki

17:45

Hilton shows off. Keith

17:47

The Sutherland reunites. Jerry

17:51

Bruckheimer looks dapper. Oh

17:53

yes of course always.

17:55

Alessandra Ambrosio flashes her

17:57

taut abs. Paris Hilton shows

17:59

off. shows off. Timothy

18:01

Chalamet is joined by Harrison

18:05

Ford recalls Anna

18:08

Maxwell can't wipe the smile

18:10

off her face and

18:13

I think we'll end with that one.

18:15

I think that says it all really.

18:17

Language is important. So last night I

18:19

was doing a little bit of a

18:21

deep dive around this language

18:23

and communication and was reading the musings

18:25

of Deborah Cameron who was the Rupert

18:28

Murdoch professor of language and communication

18:30

at the University of Oxford.

18:33

Wow. That's right. The

18:35

Rupert Murdoch professor of

18:37

language and communication. She

18:41

specialises in socio-linguistics especially the

18:43

relationship between language and gender,

18:45

language ideologies and linguistic normativity

18:48

discourse analysis. That's the Rupert

18:50

Murdoch professor of language and

18:52

communication at Oxford University. I

18:54

hope that answered your question.

18:56

We really did go on but there

18:58

was a lot to cover within that.

19:00

Thank you very much and good luck

19:02

raising your beautiful daughter in a

19:05

slightly less patriarchal world which we all

19:07

hope for every day. Okay.

19:09

Thank you. And we

19:11

will be back with more questions about the

19:13

patriarchy after this little break. Just

19:16

a little one. Just a little breaky. Cool

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a given month over 70% of LinkedIn users don't visit

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20:06

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20:10

linkedin.com/people today. We

20:19

have a question now from Charlotte. Lovely Charlotte.

20:21

Hello, Charlotte, what would you like to know?

20:23

What would you like to share about the

20:25

patriarchy? Hi, I'm Makeda and Lily. My name

20:27

is Charlotte and I'm based in Kent. So

20:29

for context, I started my

20:32

own social media marketing business when I

20:34

was on maternity leave with my nearly

20:36

two year old daughter now. And somehow

20:38

the majority of my client base is

20:41

made up of middle aged men. And

20:44

with that comes the odd misogynistic comment that you

20:46

get. So my question for you is in your

20:49

career so far, how do you handle these types

20:51

of comments from superiors that you still want to

20:53

work with because they pay you? But how

20:56

can you have a funny comeback that doesn't make

20:58

you lose your job? For example, one of my

21:00

favorites is what weird thing to say out loud,

21:03

but I'd love to hear what yours have been

21:05

and ones that you've used in the past. That's

21:07

very good, Charlotte. Confusion works

21:10

better than in like

21:12

sort of knee jerk

21:15

reactive emotion, I

21:17

think in those kinds of situations. I

21:19

really like that. That's so cutting. What a

21:21

weird thing to say out loud. Oh yeah.

21:24

That's basically saying you're

21:26

a dickhead without saying you're a dickhead. Nice.

21:29

Lily, lyrics thread, songwriting

21:31

genius, Ivan Avelo winning

21:34

lady. You've

21:36

got some bloody corkers

21:39

in this field, haven't you? Really? I'm

21:41

drawing blanks right now. To be

21:43

honest, I don't really have any male

21:45

superiors. I'm self-employed.

21:49

I guess, you know,

21:51

maybe the people that my old record company

21:54

could have been described as being my superiors.

21:56

Yes, and you were with them entangled with

21:59

them for life. 15 years. I

22:01

remember once actually when I wrote this song called

22:03

Hard Out Here, it had

22:05

like the word bitch in it about 176 times. And

22:09

when it got sent to America to like the radio play people,

22:11

we got an email back from them saying, you know, she's going

22:14

to have to take some of the bitches out of this. And

22:16

I was like, which one? And

22:21

there's like bits of it where like she

22:24

refers to herself. I like I referred to myself as

22:26

a bitch. It's like some boys be talking about their

22:28

bitches and be making a fuss. Anyway, he'd like written

22:30

this thing. And he was like, I think, you

22:33

know, men don't really want to hear women

22:35

refer to themselves as a bitch. I was

22:38

like, thank you. Thank

22:40

you for that. Graham

22:42

from radio promotion

22:45

in like Idaho. Like

22:48

why don't you go fuck yourself? There you

22:50

go, Charlotte. Just

22:53

a classic. Why don't you fuck yourself? Just

22:55

keep it classic. Keep it classic. The bitches

22:57

stay. The bitches stayed. And

22:59

I'm scared of him right now. I don't know. It's because we're

23:02

talking about the patriarchy. No,

23:04

no, no. Dino's a feminist. It's fine.

23:07

Dino's taking all this in. He's like, I'm not a fan of him. I'm

23:09

not a fan of him. I'm not a fan of him. I'm not a

23:11

fan of him. I'm not a fan of him. I'm not a fan of

23:13

him. I'm not a fan of him. But if you're

23:15

gay and you do,

23:18

you're gonna be like, I'm sorry.

23:25

If we're sorry. We're

23:29

gonna Only se you For

23:32

blaming Light. That shows you you know what? Well,

23:36

all your love-ins SELL her. For

23:39

what? Sure. I love

23:41

that, I love that. I love that. No. We

23:44

can create life inside of our bodies. We

23:47

literally can grow babies. There's a

23:49

power in that, being able to create

23:51

life. And actually, men are

23:54

resentful of this because they don't have that

23:56

power to do that. And that's why,

23:58

since the beginning of time they've basically

24:00

been trying to take power away

24:03

from women, you know, since forever,

24:05

especially sexual or reproductive freedoms. So

24:07

just wondered if you thought if there was any truth

24:10

to that. Thanks, bye. Absolutely. Sorry,

24:12

I got that so wrong. You're actually

24:14

from North West London. My R is

24:16

a bit so thank you. And

24:18

you're actually called Laura. Thank you, Laura. I totally

24:21

agree. I think it's

24:23

almost, it's also a bit like

24:27

racism towards black people. I feel like

24:30

for millennia, the fear

24:32

was about the power and magic

24:34

of black people. And

24:36

if there's nothing to be scared of,

24:38

you don't try and suppress something or

24:41

dehumanize something if it doesn't scare you.

24:44

And I think that women do scare men with how

24:46

powerful we are, and always have.

24:48

I remember I was doing this, remember

24:50

that there was that brilliant TV show

24:52

The Underground Railroad. It's absolutely brilliant. So

24:54

I did a podcast to accompany it.

24:56

And it was all about rebellions throughout

24:59

enslavement that we aren't told about. And

25:02

there was this incredible story about the

25:04

Dohome tribe. This is men underestimating women.

25:07

And they capture or this whole gang

25:09

of women, but in their head, it's

25:11

just a load of chicks. But actually,

25:13

they're an army. And because they're women,

25:15

and they want to sort

25:17

of rape and torture and sodomize them, they don't put

25:19

them on the lower deck, they put them on the higher

25:21

deck, and they don't tie them up. And

25:23

the women overthrow the boat and turn

25:25

it around and take it back to

25:28

Africa. And that is what happens when

25:30

you underestimate a woman. So I think

25:32

that the power of women is

25:35

underestimated often, but it's known and

25:37

feared, which is why we're suppressed

25:39

by men so often. That's

25:41

what I think. Yeah, no, I totally agree. I

25:43

mean, I think that, you know, ultimately, it's rooted

25:46

in greed as well. I mean, as far as

25:48

I know, I think that like the patriarchy in

25:50

it, you know,

25:53

came from, you know, the transition

25:55

between hunter and gatherer times to

25:58

like, when land and agriculture

26:00

became like tools of

26:02

bargaining and trade and so women kind

26:05

of got lumbered in with that

26:07

as a commodity and that was the sort of

26:09

beginning of like the subjugation of women in that

26:12

sense. I think that yes there's

26:14

a fear of it but it's also like oh that

26:16

we can use them, we can

26:18

profit off of them. I think

26:21

it's interesting as well as that you

26:23

know the period of time

26:26

that we are fertile for that we

26:28

can make babies relatively short and

26:31

I feel like in

26:33

my own life anyway it'd be great to like be

26:35

able to get that stuff over the way, out of

26:38

the way, do the feeding and then get to work

26:40

like actual work in

26:43

the world. That's when I became like smart

26:45

and understood things

26:47

better anyway like before I had kids I

26:49

was relatively a fucking idiot. Excuse me I

26:51

haven't had kids so do you bar? No

26:54

I don't, I'm talking about my own experience

26:56

but I think that like if it was

26:59

the societal norm for you to like get

27:01

them out when you're young and

27:03

chuck them you know and then the dad

27:05

raised them they're like much better made for

27:07

raising kids anyway they can lift them up,

27:09

they can play the games, they're more on

27:11

their emotional level like you know they're

27:14

the ones that should be raising the kids while

27:16

we go and do the proper stuff. That would

27:19

be great. Yeah you know we'll just pop

27:21

them out and I'm like we're done for when we're done

27:23

for like you know find another one

27:25

that you need to knock up the duff

27:27

and but look after the kids while I'm

27:29

out there murning the money. Doing the stuff.

27:32

This is taking a strange chance.

27:35

Well I am with you. Yeah

27:39

exactly. But Lily, alarm for

27:41

Lily to stop.

27:44

I hope that answered your question. I

27:46

feel like we did. Yeah, bit around

27:48

the houses but we definitely got somewhere

27:50

in the end. Next question please for

27:52

listen bitch. Hey Lily and Makita my

27:55

name's Maisie I'm from South London and I've really really

27:57

been enjoying your podcast. It's so nice to hear you

27:59

guys chatting. My question for

28:01

you guys is how do

28:03

you feel that the effect the patriarchy has and

28:06

has had on the creative industries has

28:09

changed since you guys first started out and

28:11

from when someone might be starting out now?

28:14

I think it's gotten easier, it's gotten worse,

28:16

the effects, yeah that's basically my

28:18

question. I really wish I could say it's got

28:20

it's changed so much in 25 years but I don't know

28:25

how much it has in my

28:27

industry anyway in telly. How about in

28:29

music? How about in acting? No I think it's

28:31

worse. Worse?

28:34

Yeah but I think that's rooted in social

28:36

media and rather than anything else I just

28:38

think that social media really plays into those

28:40

like gender

28:42

stereotypes and everything

28:46

was so data-led and so data-driven so

28:48

right in terms of music we

28:50

need it ultimately is like investment right to

28:53

be able to plug things to

28:55

get things you know give things prominence on the

28:57

internet or on the TV or even

28:59

just like going out and about and showcasing your music

29:01

like you need money to be able to do it

29:04

and the way that the people that have the money

29:06

decide on where those funds are spent is

29:08

by looking at the data online and as

29:10

a woman the way that

29:13

you increase those numbers is

29:15

by taking your clothes off or by

29:17

wearing lots of makeup and so I

29:19

think it's got harder I think it's

29:21

got harder for people that aren't considered

29:24

you know beautiful

29:26

or extraordinary looking to

29:30

break through in creative industries. Yeah

29:33

like when I first got my job

29:35

it was like the people around me

29:37

that and the people who preceded me

29:39

like Zoe Ball and Sarah Cox and

29:41

Kat Dealey so I love Kat

29:44

Dealey all very attractive

29:46

but it wasn't really about that

29:48

I thought they were funny and

29:51

smart and I think now

29:53

I think being a TV presenter

29:55

is kind of lost

29:58

in being an influencer. which is

30:00

lost in just being an attractive person. And it's

30:03

not really a job to just be an attractive

30:05

person. True. But then at the same time, like,

30:07

do you really think BBC would have given us

30:09

this podcast if we weren't as hot as we

30:11

are? Yeah. We weren't

30:14

so bloody gorgeous. Good point. Um,

30:17

I don't know. It's audio, baby. Oh,

30:22

yeah. I know we're filming

30:24

it, but it is audio. So

30:27

I don't know how hot we have to

30:29

be for this. I will also say, though,

30:32

in the beginning of my career, like, I

30:34

didn't have hair and makeup people. When I

30:36

look at, like, my performances of me at

30:38

Glastonbury, the idea that, like, Dua Lipa will,

30:40

like, pop up on stage without full hair

30:42

and makeup and styling. And at that point

30:45

in my career, I was literally like, ehh,

30:47

doing it all myself. Totally. I had to

30:49

ask for makeup after about a year of

30:51

doing Pot World. Kevin, my wonderful makeup artist,

30:53

came in with S Club's Juniors, and

30:56

he did, I went in. I said, could you do a bit

30:58

of makeup for me? Because I don't know what I'm doing.

31:00

I don't even know how to put makeup on. I was

31:02

wearing white eyeshadow, and he did it, and I begged him.

31:04

I said, can he stay? Can he, like, be employed? And

31:06

they were like, oh, God, all right. It's like, no,

31:08

it's actually a TV show, and there are cameras and

31:11

lights and stuff. Like, I think we need a makeup

31:13

artist. But we were kind

31:15

of free in that way, I think, again,

31:17

because it wasn't about being really beautiful and

31:19

groomed and glamorous, our jobs. It wasn't. It

31:21

was about me being good at what I

31:23

was doing and you being good at what

31:26

you were doing. And it takes more work,

31:28

by the way, as the older you get

31:30

to be able to conform to those societal

31:32

expectations of how we should look. And obviously,

31:34

I started selling less records for the record

31:36

company. They were like, oh, that's quite

31:38

a lot of money for hair and makeup. I'm like, I'm about to

31:40

be 30 bucks! I'm getting into

31:43

a really tricky area. Yeah,

31:46

like, could you have done this to me at

31:48

26? No,

31:51

they didn't. I did it myself when I

31:53

didn't need it. Now I do need it.

31:55

And they're like, ooh, yeah, sorry. But we're

31:57

giving all that money to the other. Children

32:03

What's the next question please no in

32:05

the last question my darling this last

32:07

can we have a lot Hello,

32:11

it's be from London My

32:14

question for you both on the

32:16

theme of patriarchy is about catcalling

32:19

because I find that catcalling is

32:21

one of those like Loki Annoying

32:24

but like fairly frequent occurrences that happen

32:26

in patriarchy And I wondered whether you

32:28

two have had a situation happen where

32:31

someone is the old something At you

32:33

in the street and you have managed

32:35

to get your wits about you and

32:38

come up with an amazing comeback In

32:40

the moment and if you haven't Then

32:43

I also wanted to know what is

32:45

the ultimate comeback for a shitty man? Yelling

32:48

at you in the street. Love you. Thank

32:50

you. Bye. Thank you, darling I wish I had

32:53

an answer Yeah

32:56

one time I said this but no

32:58

I One thing

33:01

that is particularly creepy is that I have never

33:03

been catcalled more than when I used to go

33:05

to school and be in My school uniform and

33:07

I still think that was truly fucked up because

33:09

the school uniform Literally says I am under 16

33:12

and that's when I got catcalled enough and I didn't

33:14

I didn't have a comeback I felt quite intimidated and

33:16

freaked out. Oh, oh, oh, oh Oh, oh, although

33:19

on my 30th talking about getting a bit older

33:21

on like my 35th birthday So

33:34

sometimes it's quite nice to be catcalled

33:37

it's fancy energy of the cat call the

33:39

energy of the cat call Yeah, I definitely notice

33:41

it's not happening quite as

33:43

much as it used to when I

33:45

was younger. It's okay, babe It's

33:47

okay, babe I will last week actually I was on

33:50

the subway in New York City and I walked down

33:52

the platform and this guy kind of like Locked eyes

33:54

of me and as and I was like is he

33:56

gonna like mug me or something and then I got

33:58

close and she went Stop! Stop!

34:05

I was like, okay, fine. Do

34:09

you know when you're being hit on? I really

34:11

have no idea anymore. Especially now I've got this

34:13

fucking puppy because the puppy is so cute that

34:15

everyone wants to look at us and talk to

34:18

us. I'm like, look at this. I'm like, oh,

34:20

it's the puppy. So I

34:22

never really know when someone is like hitting on me.

34:24

I don't think I've ever been hit on, to be

34:26

honest. But you

34:29

do get cackled. No, I didn't get cackled. That

34:31

was someone literally just locking eyes on me. Didn't

34:34

they used to call it white van man something?

34:36

Yeah, and also like scaffolders. You know,

34:38

when I like drive and cast like a

34:40

bunch of scaffolders and they're like waggling.

34:42

Yeah, but I quite... Is this all what I

34:45

call it? Yeah, don't say

34:47

that. Don't miss it. Don't admit

34:49

it. No, because I fancy

34:51

builders. Well, the

34:53

question is, have you ever had a good

34:55

comeback? And the answer is no. No. I

35:00

don't know why we're pussy flitting around this. No. From

35:07

Texas to New York City. That was

35:09

listen bitch. Live in direct from America.

35:11

Isn't that weird that we're both in

35:14

America? Was that a terrible one? No,

35:16

I really enjoyed the patriarchy.

35:18

But I am gonna lighten

35:21

the mood, I suppose is

35:23

the word. That's three words.

35:25

Yes, lighten. We're gonna lighten

35:27

the... We're gonna nice up

35:29

the area as my mum would say. Nice

35:31

up the dance. We're gonna nice up the dance.

35:34

Let's nice up the dance. Next week's theme

35:36

is... Boobs.

35:43

Oh my God. You can

35:45

call them breasts. You can call them ticks.

35:47

You can call them boobs. But today I'm

35:49

calling them boobs. The theme for next week's

35:51

Listen Bitch is boobs. I think it's really

35:53

important. My boobs are not what they used

35:55

to be. Remember how good they were?

35:58

Uh, yeah. Come. on

36:00

27. I had the best boobs out

36:02

here and I would like to

36:04

talk about... General...

36:10

uh what's the word? Anyway they're not great anymore.

36:12

That'd be great but they're not like what they

36:14

used to be and also

36:16

I've had two friends go

36:19

through breast cancer recently so I've been thinking about

36:21

boobs in a very different way and I think

36:23

you do as you get older. So boobs it

36:25

is bitch, boobs it is. No

36:29

reaction from you at all, nothing to

36:31

say. I mean great great.

36:36

For the audio this is Lily is

36:38

mimicking squeezing breasts now so that's where

36:41

we're at. Great great. Great

36:43

great honk honk. Oh 8,030,40,90. That's right,

36:45

that's right you better believe it. Send

36:54

us a little voice note. Yes send us

36:56

a little voice note, don't forget to leave

36:58

your name and your geographical location. Yeah and

37:00

take Josh's lead and really like I don't

37:02

know what your street looks like at this

37:04

point and if you live in a terraced

37:06

house or social housing or if you

37:09

have a view these things I really

37:11

am interested in. We will see you next

37:13

week. I love you, I'll see

37:15

you later. Bye kids,

37:18

love you. Hope there aren't any

37:20

offended men out there. Hello,

37:27

so welcome to Miss Meat with Lily Allen

37:29

and a missy for Oliver. This is a

37:31

person-phonica production for BBC Town. I'm

37:39

Natalie Cassidy and I'm Joanna Page. Join us

37:41

for our podcast Off The Tele where we

37:43

chat about what we can't stop watching, what

37:46

we're definitely not going to bother with and

37:48

most importantly what you're all watching at home

37:50

too. No judgment here. Well a bit. Off

37:54

the Tele listen on BBC Sound. What

37:57

we watching then? Hey

38:08

folks, I'm Mark Maron from the

38:10

WTF Podcast, and this episode is

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