0:00

This is a Glassbox Media Podcast.

0:38

Welcome back to Missing. I am Tim

0:40

here today with Lance. Lance, how are you today?

0:44

I'm doing great today, Tim. I hope all the listeners out there are doing

0:46

just as great. Once again, we have this

0:48

really unique opportunity to present a conversation

0:50

to our listeners that features

0:53

a follow-up to a prior

0:55

conversation that had

0:57

family members on, representing a

0:59

missing individual. And this

1:01

one is the law enforcement angle.

1:04

So whenever we get the opportunity

1:06

to do this, we like to capitalize on it so we can get

1:08

a full picture. And today our guest is

1:10

Chief Paul Logan of the Grays

1:12

Harbor Sheriff's Department out there in

1:15

Washington State. And we really appreciate

1:17

him coming on and telling us about

1:20

Oakley Carlson's disappearance and the

1:22

case from their perspective. And

1:25

a big shout out to Shana and Tate's

1:28

at Light The Way Missing. You can find out what

1:30

they're up to at LightTheWayMissing.com.

1:33

They introduced us to Chief

1:35

Logan as well as Jamie Jo Hiles.

1:38

And again, this is part two of our coverage

1:40

on Oakley Carlson's case. If you'd

1:42

like to hear part one, we highly recommend

1:45

checking that out. That was with Oakley's

1:48

foster mom, Jamie Jo. Anyone

1:51

with information about the

1:53

disappearance of Oakley Carlson is asked

1:55

to call 911 or

1:57

the Grays Harbor Washington

1:59

Sheriff's Department. Department at 360-533-8765. If

2:04

you have credible information leading to

2:07

the discovery of

2:09

Oakley Carlson, the reward on that is

2:11

up to around $100,000 now. If

2:14

you do have information about Oakley's disappearance and

2:16

you're concerned about calling in, it's

2:19

been restated numerous times that

2:22

any prior offenses that are unrelated

2:24

to Oakley's disappearance will not be recognized

2:26

during that call. They just want information about

2:29

Oakley.

2:30

Okay, everybody, we're going to break quick for commercial

2:32

here and we'll be right back with Chief Paul

2:34

Logan.

2:40

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5:11

Chief Paul Logan welcome to the podcast.

5:14

How are you today? I'm very good.

5:16

Thanks for having me. Yeah thank you for coming on.

5:18

We never want to miss the opportunity

5:20

to speak with someone in law enforcement, someone

5:23

like yourself who's connected really closely

5:25

to such a tragic

5:27

story. But before we get to

5:29

that can you let the audience know

5:31

a little bit about yourself, like your background?

5:34

You are chief. Where are you the chief

5:37

and how did you, has law enforcement always

5:39

been in your in your family? How did you get into this? I

5:41

work for Great Surbread County Sheriff's Office. I'm

5:44

the Special Services Chief now which entails

5:47

supervision of the investigations unit,

5:51

evidence, sex offender registrations and a

5:53

few other things. I've been in this spot.

5:56

I was appointed in January of this year.

5:58

Prior to that I was the detective. a detective sergeant and

6:01

a detective prior to that. Now,

6:04

I guess my law enforcement career started 20 plus

6:06

years ago in the Yakima Valley and just

6:08

kind of progressed over to here.

6:11

I was the first in my family to go into law enforcement

6:14

and it's an interesting profession. And

6:16

you said you're the special services

6:18

chief and that is

6:21

dealing with, you said, registering sex offenders

6:23

and I guess crimes

6:26

of that nature. What was it about that that

6:28

drew you to it? I guess it was kind of a natural

6:30

progression from where I was as the

6:32

detective and the detective sergeant and

6:35

then the special services chief.

6:38

Also it's just the next step above detective

6:40

sergeant as far as supervising

6:42

the investigations division. There's

6:45

a few more other things that are thrown in there like sex

6:47

offender evidence and some other

6:50

divisions that I also supervise but

6:53

the main job other than also civil,

6:57

the civil side of the sheriff's office but

7:00

my, the main pull for me was

7:02

to still be a part of the investigations division.

7:04

Can you tell us a little bit about the community? I'm

7:07

sure. Greats Harbor County, it's

7:11

a very large county

7:13

as far as square miles,

7:16

not large in relation

7:18

to population. We will have 80,000 is

7:23

the population approximately for the county.

7:26

Most of those live in the cities, Aberdeen,

7:28

Hopewee and Montesano but basically from

7:31

Olympia, the capital of Washington State all the way

7:33

up to the coast and then kind of north

7:35

south for quite a ways but it's mostly

7:38

rural, mostly timber,

7:40

a lot of open spaces, fishing,

7:44

hunting, hiking, a lot of

7:47

outdoors is kind of the central

7:49

of the county. And how long have you

7:52

been working on Oakley Carlson's

7:54

case?

7:55

I've been working on Oakley Carlson case since

7:57

about 1130 on. December 6, 2021.

8:01

And you remember the time on that is that

8:04

something that stands out to you because of all

8:06

of these tragic details, her age.

8:10

What was it? What is it about the time? Why is that resonating

8:12

with you? Well, it, I guess

8:15

the way it came in, we

8:17

had a little bit of knowledge that

8:20

there might be an issue when

8:23

a citizen contacted one of my detectives

8:26

after hours, asking him what she

8:28

should do, reference

8:31

a welfare check on a child that went to her school.

8:34

He gave her some ideas, some

8:36

instructions since the original welfare check

8:38

was outside of our county, how to

8:41

report that. The following morning,

8:44

he came through our office and he had to go to training.

8:46

But for some reason, this, the details,

8:49

I guess bothered him a little bit or he was a little bit concerned.

8:51

Something just put him off with this one. So he had a meeting

8:54

with all of us in the detective's division said, Hey,

8:56

I got a call about this girl, Oakley

8:58

Carlson yesterday, this is what I told the RP

9:01

to do. But I got to go to training. So if something

9:03

comes up later, I just wanted

9:05

you guys to be aware. So he kind of put

9:08

us on notice that this

9:10

might there might be something more to this.

9:12

And honestly, I think it was just good instincts on his

9:15

part, the actual information it was, was

9:18

not to the point that we would start

9:20

something significant at that point. Again, it's just

9:22

a welfare check at that point. But he

9:24

thought enough to come talk to us. And by

9:27

about 1130, we had coordinated

9:29

with the neighboring jurisdiction that had done the welfare

9:31

check. And they contacted the parents,

9:34

Jordan Bowers and Andrew Carlson, their

9:36

responses that they gave them, let

9:39

us know that yeah, there's there's something more here than

9:41

just, you know, somebody checking on the welfare.

9:43

So that's when kind of everyone here,

9:46

all the detectives headed towards

9:49

Oakville and began working on the case. That's

9:51

really remarkable. That's amazing that the instincts

9:54

took over like that. And I'm

9:56

curious how often that happens where someone

9:59

is contacted said after hours. So

10:01

that shows sort of the urgency

10:04

in the situation, right? Yes,

10:07

I would say definitely she was bothered by

10:09

what she, by

10:11

the situation and wanted to find out how to report

10:13

it. I would also say it

10:16

has a lot to do with our, you know,

10:18

my detectives and the deputies of

10:20

their relationships with the people in the county.

10:23

So, you know, she felt comfortable calling him at

10:25

home. She knows who he is, you know, is where

10:27

he works and she felt comfortable calling him at

10:29

home and asking him for some advice and, you

10:32

know, he gave her some good instructions

10:34

on what to do the next day, but to kind of get

10:36

the ball rolling. And can you share

10:39

a little bit more about what that's like inside

10:41

your department when there's

10:44

a story like that? I mean, it's not, I'm sure it's

10:46

not like you'd investigate differently, but is there a

10:48

different sense of urgency when there's a

10:50

child involved? Always. It

10:53

depends on the age of the child, depends on the circumstances.

10:56

It depends on, you

10:58

know, who the child is supposed to be with.

11:01

Just all the information that comes in, it

11:03

kind of, you have to take them all case by case

11:05

basis. But whenever you're talking about a child who

11:08

for the most part cannot defend themselves,

11:10

can't get themselves out of a dangerous

11:12

situation. They can't leave. They can't.

11:15

There's a lot of things an adult can do that

11:17

a child can't. So when

11:19

you get, when we get a report

11:23

of a smaller child that's in danger, it's obviously

11:26

of a different priority just because they're

11:28

in the group that needs help

11:30

the most. I've done a total of

11:32

three welfare checks in my life

11:35

for individuals. And each one of them, I

11:37

was so concerned that I was doing

11:39

the wrong thing because I didn't

11:41

want to be like intrusive or

11:44

I didn't want to, I don't know, violate

11:46

anyone's privacy. And I'm trying

11:49

to ask without, because I know you don't have the,

11:51

you can't give certain information, but the

11:54

information that this woman gave, I mean,

11:56

how significant was it where she

11:59

took it upon herself to call in a wellness

12:01

check. And without getting, you

12:03

know, if you want to get specific, however you feel comfortable

12:06

answering that, I'm just thinking about my past

12:08

experience and how much it took for me to say, okay,

12:10

this needs to happen. Sure.

12:14

And how it began is

12:17

that she, Oakley's sister

12:19

had been spending the night with

12:22

her and her daughter, which is kind

12:24

of a sleepover. And

12:27

Oakley's sister had made a comment that

12:30

she found concerning that

12:33

with the fact that in the small community, she had

12:35

been over to the Bowers resident or Bowers

12:37

Carlson residence a few times in

12:40

the previous months had not seen Oakley.

12:43

It just, she kind of put all of that together to

12:45

me to get her to the point

12:47

where I'm worried about this somebody needs to figure

12:49

out what's going on. We

12:52

were, I guess in the

12:54

same, in the same respect, I think

12:56

it's important not to forget that

13:00

this was in the midst of COVID. A

13:03

lot of things were shut down. This

13:05

is a rural community. So the house is, you know, the

13:07

house doesn't have any neighbors that are, that

13:10

are in close proximity. You add

13:12

COVID, nobody's going to school. People

13:14

aren't, people are, you know, staying in their homes.

13:17

It was kind of the perfect storm to have this

13:20

kind of happening and not having

13:22

those normal interactions at the post

13:24

office, at the grocery store, at the school, pick

13:27

up, drop off, that kind of stuff. Can you tell us

13:30

when the last time Oakley was seen

13:32

was? A big part of our

13:34

investigation since December 6th,

13:36

we got it was backtracking to find out

13:38

when the last credible time

13:41

that someone other than

13:43

the parents had seen Oakley and

13:46

we were able to backtrack

13:48

back to February

13:51

10th of 2021 was the last time we had

13:53

somebody from outside the house who had

13:56

put eyes on Oakley and knew that she was

13:58

there and that she was okay. And upon

14:00

visiting Oakley's parents, Jordan

14:02

Bowers and Andrew Carlson, upon

14:05

visiting their residents for the first time, what

14:07

was it, again, with as many

14:09

details as you feel comfortable explaining,

14:11

what was it about their behavior about the

14:13

residents that set off even more red flags?

14:16

Well, without getting into any specifics

14:19

of what was found there and kind of the direction

14:21

we took after that, I would

14:23

say it was the lack of concern,

14:25

lack of assistance. I'm

14:28

a father. Every detective that

14:30

I have are all father's parents. And

14:32

I think most people have had that experience

14:35

at a grocery store where your child

14:37

might be right next to you and then they kind of wander around

14:39

the corner looking at the next shiny thing. You

14:41

turn around looking for them, they're gone. And you have that panicky

14:44

feeling as you're running around a grocery store.

14:47

And usually the child's very close. But

14:49

when you find them, you know, yeah, you

14:51

just have that initial panic response. I didn't

14:53

see that from either, either Jordan

14:55

Bowers or Andrew Carlson. There

14:58

was no urgency, there was no panic, there was no,

15:03

yeah, there was just no worry, I

15:07

guess, about the location of the child and no

15:09

panic in needing to find

15:11

her, which I found very concerning.

15:14

At that time, Oakley had been missing for

15:16

months and Andrew

15:20

and Jordan, they were not the people to

15:22

report her missing. Is that right? Correct. I

15:25

guess, like I said, based on our investigation last time,

15:27

we have somebody who's seen Oakley was

15:29

in February that we've been able to document.

15:32

Oakley was not reported missing until after

15:34

the welfare check. And even during

15:36

the welfare check, she did not, they

15:39

didn't claim that she was missing. It was after

15:41

that when they

15:43

were headed back out to the house from the hotel that

15:45

they were in, where she was reported at that

15:48

point. Jordan, do Bowers

15:50

and Carlson have any legal

15:53

issues? Were they arrested previously? Anything

15:56

that was concerning on that end? Well, I say both

15:58

of them have history. I'm not going to really

16:00

go into specifics on their history. As

16:03

a result of them being arrested

16:05

and in investigation at this point,

16:07

they were both charged with

16:09

assault of their other children.

16:13

Some methamphetamine being used in home and

16:16

some different things that occurred

16:19

there. So they were both subsequently

16:22

charged with that and both ended

16:24

up accepting guilty police and

16:26

serving sentences for that. You

16:29

brought up the methamphetamine. Is that

16:31

an issue that's in the area

16:33

that

16:35

is escalating or is it deescalating

16:37

or what's the status? It's everywhere.

16:40

I don't know if it's increasing. I know it's

16:42

definitely not decreasing. In Washington

16:44

State, there

16:46

has been some things in the last few years that

16:50

made it. Because of a Supreme

16:52

Court ruling that we had several years ago on

16:55

the Blake decision, it was a

16:57

simple possession. It took the simple possession

17:01

of narcotics off of the table. So

17:03

you couldn't be arrested for possession

17:06

of methamphetamine, heroin, fentanyl.

17:09

Since then, it's been changed slightly

17:12

to where I think

17:14

it's a misdemeanor or might have

17:16

been a gross misdemeanor now with the

17:19

suggestion that there's treatment and they have

17:21

a year to do treatment. So there's really no charges

17:24

on it as long as they go to treatment or

17:28

start the process. So needless

17:31

to say, it's a huge problem

17:34

in the county. What was the line of thinking

17:37

behind that? You said it's the Blake decision? It

17:40

was the Blake

17:43

decision. And I

17:45

believe the defense was that

17:48

the defendant had stated

17:50

upon arrest that the pants that she was wearing

17:53

were not hers. She

17:55

bought them from Goodwill or

17:57

a yard sale or something to that effect. And

18:00

she was in possession of methamphetamine

18:04

heroin, something in her pocket. And they

18:07

later determined that, yeah,

18:09

because the pants were not hers, were not later proven

18:12

to be hers, even though she was wearing them, that,

18:14

yeah, you construct a possession based on

18:17

the way the law was written at that time was

18:19

unenforceable. Does that make

18:22

your investigation any more complicated?

18:25

I'd say it makes it more difficult whenever you're dealing

18:27

with an investigation where a

18:30

chunk of it occurred within the drug community,

18:32

then these are the people that you're going to need to talk

18:34

to. It used to be a little easier

18:36

if someone had different

18:39

charges that they wanted

18:41

to work off, they wanted some help with, they

18:43

wanted something to

18:45

that effect. It was

18:48

kind of easy for us to do that, or at least that was a good

18:50

direction that we could go, we could offer help, we could offer

18:52

to get rid of some charges for some information.

18:55

As soon as the drug laws changed,

18:58

no one is really getting arrested for

19:00

the past few years, anything other

19:02

than higher level possession

19:05

when it tend to distribute cases. So

19:07

those are usually done by a drug task force and are

19:09

not, makes it more difficult

19:11

for us to interact with

19:13

a group of people that we need to. Does

19:15

it also make it more difficult to

19:19

get information because the possible

19:22

penalty isn't going to be as harsh? Oh,

19:24

definitely. There's really virtually

19:27

no penalty. They know this. They're

19:34

waiting in some cases instead

19:36

of coming forward with information, not

19:38

only this case, but other cases. They're

19:41

going to hold off on anything they know until they

19:43

get caught for a burglary or a serious assault

19:46

or something else and try to use whatever information

19:48

they have to deal out of that instead of

19:50

the drug charges because they don't need it anymore. You

19:53

said that Carlson and Bowers have both

19:55

been, are they currently

19:57

serving time right now? And Carlson.

20:00

he served and was released.

20:02

And Jordan Bowers ended up serving

20:04

her sentence and then she was subsequently

20:07

arrested again upon her release from

20:09

prison by us. Because again,

20:12

during the process

20:14

of this case, it has caused

20:16

us just due to the, we're talking

20:19

about a missing child, no stone unturned.

20:21

We ended up uncovering some additional crimes

20:24

that Jordan Bowers had

20:26

committed. So we prepared an additional

20:29

charging package and gave that to the prosecutor

20:31

who charged him. And she just recently

20:34

has gone to, I think last month has gone back

20:37

to, back to Purdy

20:39

to start serving her prison sentence on the newer

20:41

charges. And how long is that sentence? Without

20:44

good time and any

20:47

other easements that they would

20:49

give by policy, I think it

20:51

was 36 months. I see. So that probably

20:54

isn't a long enough period of time to

20:56

offer some sort of break

20:58

if she were to give up information on

21:01

Oakley? Probably not long enough of

21:03

an incentive, no. I definitely

21:05

would if she wanted to,

21:07

but I doubt that 36 months

21:09

is an enticement for her to do so. Were

21:11

there any other complications in

21:14

your investigation that you can

21:16

tell us about? Well, I think right off the bat, the complication

21:18

was time and how long

21:21

it had been since Oakley had been seen. We

21:23

had to basically try to recreate

21:26

her life for months and months, trying

21:29

to figure out where she'd gone. And there really wasn't

21:31

much there. With an adult, you have

21:33

a pattern of life. Most adults are

21:35

gonna go to the store. They're gonna go get gas at the

21:37

same gas station. They're going to

21:40

go to work. They're gonna have this pattern

21:42

of things. Even school children have

21:44

this pattern of life. So

21:47

you can go back and find out when exactly that

21:49

pattern of life was disrupted. And

21:51

it gives you, it's usually

21:53

a little easier to narrow

21:56

in on a specific point

21:58

in time. In this case, because the

22:01

family lived in such a remote

22:03

location because of COVID,

22:06

nobody visited because Oakley

22:08

was not in school yet. There

22:10

just really was not all

22:12

of these other little things that we could use to

22:15

pin down this pattern of life. So that

22:17

was a that was and is still

22:19

a difficulty they were trying to overcome.

22:22

It sounds like impossible when you hear

22:24

it like that, you know, because if you're

22:26

looking for an adult they've already established, like

22:28

you said, a pattern of life. Like this, this

22:31

is a little girl who was only at the

22:33

mercy of the adults around her. Absolutely.

22:37

Yeah, it's I would

22:39

never use the word impossible because we, you

22:42

know, we've spent a lot of time doing it and we

22:44

we continue to work on it but

22:46

it's absolutely difficult. A lot of it is

22:49

piecing together the parents lives,

22:52

piecing together the other children's lives, you

22:54

know, other extraneous things that have happened around

22:56

their lives but, you know,

22:58

we're still still working on it. There

23:00

has been a history, I guess we'll say, alleged

23:03

abuse of the other children

23:05

and of Oakley. Can you talk about that a little bit? Well,

23:07

the abuse that I know of and

23:10

that I could talk about is the

23:12

chemical abuse which was the initial charge

23:15

that they were charged with and that was a result of

23:17

DSHS here. Once

23:20

the children were taken into state custody, they

23:22

did hair follicle tests, hair

23:24

follicle tests showed levels of

23:27

methamphetamine ingestion

23:29

in the children. That was

23:31

what, you know, prompted those charges. Does

23:34

that mean they consume it or are

23:36

just in close proximity? It

23:38

could be either or. I know that the

23:41

levels, I was told,

23:43

you know, by the doctor the levels were at

23:45

a consumption level just

23:47

based on how many nanograms were in

23:51

the test but at the same time they

23:53

couldn't 100% say it was it

23:56

was usage. It could have been an incredible amount

23:58

of being in the same room with while it's

24:00

being consumed. And how long is

24:03

the sentence for something like that if someone's convicted

24:06

of that? It depends. It

24:08

depends on what their history

24:11

is. Someone without, you

24:13

know, without any criminal

24:16

history is in Washington State and

24:18

I would assume it's the same for most states as

24:22

our offenders have offender scores.

24:24

So if you have a certain number of felony convictions then,

24:27

you know, your score goes up. The higher your

24:29

score is, the longer your sentence is going to

24:31

be on any crime. Jordan Bowers received 20

24:33

months for her sentence

24:36

and I believe Andrew Carlson received 12 months

24:39

for his again because he had less of a criminal

24:41

history. And then what happens to the child after

24:43

the fact? Are they put into a form

24:46

of rehab? They're provided services. They're still

24:48

awarded to the state and they're provided

24:50

services, you know, physical, emotional,

24:54

psychological services with the state. And

24:56

I guess time to dry

24:58

out in jail or prison

25:01

hasn't changed anything as far as information that

25:04

Oakley's parents are providing.

25:07

No, they have

25:09

not provided

25:12

any substantive information

25:14

about Oakley's whereabouts since the first day.

25:16

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30:28

And have you conducted searches

30:31

for Oakley?

30:32

We have. I'm not

30:34

sure off the top of my head how many search forms

30:36

we've written in this case for

30:39

different electronic files, whether it be

30:42

cell phone records, location records,

30:44

different apps on phones,

30:46

banks, that kind of stuff. But we've also done multiple

30:50

searches on the property, the surrounding

30:53

property, other properties of note, hundreds

30:55

and hundreds of searchers

30:57

and hours, cadaver

30:59

dogs, drones, flyovers,

31:02

yeah, quite a bit. And

31:05

nothing has been found of significance,

31:08

or is there a certain area that

31:10

keeps popping up for some reason? Well, again,

31:13

just because of the rural

31:16

nature of where they lived in the surrounding

31:18

property, no matter how, unfortunately,

31:21

no matter how much time we put into this

31:24

type of search and this kind of property, you can

31:26

never get to the point where you're 100% convinced that

31:30

there's nothing there. We're dealing with

31:33

a lot of timber, a lot of brush

31:36

land where it's so thick that you can hardly

31:38

crawl through it, or you can't crawl through

31:40

it, cliffs,

31:43

waterways, that kind of stuff. So

31:45

it's definitely not your open field type

31:47

of searching. That being said, I think

31:50

what we've done, I can reasonably say that

31:52

unless something comes up, I think that

31:55

the areas that we've searched have been searched as good

31:57

as they can be. You know, there's always,

31:59

always been... to search more but at

32:02

this point we need a reason to start

32:04

another search in a location or in a certain

32:07

certain spot. And do you ever give any advice to anybody

32:09

who wants to conduct an independent

32:12

search if they wanted to get a group of people together

32:14

to do this? What do you typically say? Well

32:16

we have had that occur in this case. One,

32:20

it's very rare and I will usually

32:22

say don't and

32:25

it's just for the safety of the searchers

32:27

and there's different evidence requirements if

32:29

something is found to preserve

32:32

the evidence. Also you're

32:34

usually in these you're dealing with private property

32:37

so where we would have a search warrant or

32:39

permission from a property owner to go onto their property

32:42

and the labor and industries and insurance and

32:45

everything set up ahead of time when we're doing it. Private

32:47

people who are going to go search usually don't

32:49

have any of that infrastructure set up so

32:51

that's why I would usually suggest not to do it.

32:54

If they have a location based

32:56

on specific information I would say give us

32:58

that information and so we can develop a search

33:00

plan. In this case like I said there was a group

33:03

that had reached out and said they wanted to conduct

33:06

a search. They had already

33:08

they've gotten permission to be on the land. They

33:10

got assistance from the different

33:14

DNR Department of Natural Resources

33:16

land that was behind there. They

33:19

came up with a good plan. They

33:21

did a great job as far as the infrastructure

33:24

that we would normally do but I've

33:26

been a search and rescue coordinator for nine years

33:29

and this is the first time I've ever had a group be

33:31

able to do what they did. So

33:33

again I would suggest for the most part I would say

33:36

no but at the same time I can't stop

33:38

somebody from me. If they get the permissions they want to

33:40

do it so it's kind of up to them.

33:42

And as part of your

33:44

searches and subpoenaing

33:47

of information were you able

33:49

to get cell

33:52

phone pings and messages

33:55

from the time when

33:57

Oakley went missing to lead

34:00

you to where

34:02

to search?

34:03

I'd say as far as the electronic

34:08

data that we've got, we got

34:10

terabytes of data from different locations

34:13

that we use in the FBI CAS

34:15

team who's been working with us from the beginning. We

34:17

were able to go through a lot of it and

34:21

extrapolate a lot of data out from

34:24

that, that we're still using to use

34:26

follow-ups. But other than that, I'm not going to comment

34:28

on any specifics that we've got out of those search ones.

34:30

And Oakley spent time as

34:33

a foster child. And during this time, she

34:36

seemed to be thriving. And she seemed to

34:38

be healthy and happy. Is there

34:40

any information that you have about her foster

34:42

parents, Jamie, Joe, and Eric, that

34:44

you'd like to share? Yeah, I don't have much

34:47

information about her when she was in foster care.

34:49

I know she was. Obviously, during my

34:52

investigation, I wanted anything and everything from every

34:54

area that I could get. And her definitely

34:57

being in foster care from a very young age,

35:00

to where she went back into the custody of

35:03

Andrew Carlson and Jordan Bowers. So

35:06

I reached out early on to

35:08

Jamie, Joe, introduced myself.

35:11

Because at this point, we did not know where

35:13

Oakley was. So within a day,

35:16

I'd reached out to Jamie, Joe, just

35:18

to see if maybe for some reason, she was back

35:20

at her house or she had any information about

35:22

where she was. Since that time, I've

35:24

had many conversations with

35:27

both Jamie, Joe, and Eric Hiles. They

35:29

have been nothing but cooperative

35:33

with us, anything that we need

35:35

them to do. As far as providing

35:37

information, DNA

35:40

samples from some things that Oakley

35:42

had, so that I could

35:44

prepare a DNA profile of Oakley

35:47

to put into the national

35:49

database. They're

35:51

definitely dedicated to finding out

35:53

what happened to her.

35:54

In your opinion, was there a part of the

35:57

foster process that failed

35:59

Oakley?

36:00

I would say anytime you end up

36:02

with a result or

36:04

a case where the child is missing,

36:07

then I think there needs to be a hard evaluation

36:10

of what got us to this point. I

36:12

haven't spent any time digging

36:15

back into what decisions were

36:17

made by DSHS or anyone involved

36:20

in that, honestly, because it doesn't do me

36:22

any good in finding Oakley. And that's

36:24

my goal, is 100% goal

36:27

every day is to find Oakley. And going back

36:30

to what a department did or didn't do, while

36:33

I think it's important that that's done, and if

36:35

there were mistakes or

36:37

things done there that, you know, need

36:40

someone needs to be held accountable, then that's, you

36:42

know, that's what should be done. But it's not

36:44

in my purview. We made the

36:46

introduction with you through Shana

36:48

at Light The Way Missing. Can you tell

36:50

us a little bit about your relationship with her

36:53

and that organization? Absolutely.

36:56

They've been very helpful

36:58

in this case, and I know some other

37:00

cases that I've read about

37:02

their work on. Basically, just some

37:04

people that really care have started this

37:07

Light The Way group to advocate

37:10

for the missing children. They

37:13

can reach out and

37:16

do some things on the private sector that

37:18

we can't. There are people

37:21

who don't want to talk

37:23

to me because I'm law enforcement for whatever reason, but

37:25

they are comfortable talking to them. And

37:29

then one more way for me to get information from,

37:32

you know, from

37:34

someone who might want the information eventually

37:37

to get to me, but for whatever reason that

37:39

they don't want to talk to me directly. So

37:43

Light The Way can kind of be that conduit of

37:45

getting information, you know,

37:48

doing some online, you know, very good

37:50

online open source detecting. And

37:53

if they find something, you know, they let me know. But they've,

37:56

you know, they are based

37:58

out of the East Coast, but they've been. here multiple

38:01

times now to help

38:03

where they can and I think that having the

38:05

name Oakley Carlson as far and

38:07

wide as it has now

38:10

including the reward of what I've

38:12

been told is right around $100,000 I think that's definitely

38:15

due to the work

38:18

of like the way.

38:19

Wow yeah I wanted to ask about the reward

38:22

you said $100,000 up to $100,000 or

38:25

close to it?

38:26

Yeah that's my understanding is it's right at $100,000.

38:29

Wow and is that a reward for information

38:32

that leads to Oakley? Correct leads

38:35

to the

38:37

location of Oakley. In

38:39

the beginning of this conversation I just

38:42

expressed the gratitude for

38:44

having you on you are law enforcement and

38:46

you are working every day on

38:48

Oakley's

38:49

story. How

38:51

important was it for you to come on the show?

38:53

I just am curious what your perspective

38:55

is to say like this podcast

38:57

is going to be important

39:00

for me to be on to talk about Oakley. What's

39:02

your what's your thought process? I guess

39:04

my thought process is I don't want the

39:06

name Oakley Carlson to disappear.

39:09

I want it to continue for people

39:11

to ask questions. At some point

39:14

there's a piece of information out there I'm convinced

39:17

that somebody has that will

39:19

get me to a point where I can I

39:21

can find Oakley. I don't know what that is obviously

39:24

but I think the more the

39:27

more sometimes her name is said the more posters that

39:29

are up the more billboards that are up the more people

39:31

are talking about it the

39:33

more people that are asking you know Andrew Carlson

39:36

and Jordan Bowers where she is the more the more

39:38

people that care and I think you know being

39:41

coming on on shows like this and

39:43

getting that message out there I think

39:45

that's the important thing to keep her keep her name

39:48

you know in this case in the in the forefront.

39:50

And what is next for you and your department

39:53

in searching for Oakley? Honestly

39:55

we had we had a detective

39:58

meeting last week where we came up with kind

40:00

of new, our next steps.

40:03

We're never out of steps. There's

40:06

some recampusing, there's some re-interviews, there's

40:09

some investigating

40:11

and interviews on some new tips that have come in. It

40:14

runs the gamut of kind of going over

40:16

some ground that's already been going over and going over

40:19

some stuff that has just come in that we're

40:21

working on. We've

40:25

always got a few things out there that we're waiting

40:27

for to come in. We

40:29

continue to get tips here

40:32

at the Sheriff's Office and through

40:36

National Center for Missing and Exploited Children or

40:38

Crime Stoppers. We get tips from

40:40

all of them, and when we get those, we

40:42

run them down. So that's kind of the next

40:44

step, is a concerted effort

40:46

for all of us to hopefully

40:50

put aside some of the other cases we're working on and

40:52

work again full-time on this for a

40:54

few days to get rolled through this stuff.

40:56

And then as stuff comes in, we'll

40:59

continue to evaluate it and investigate

41:01

it. And do you believe that the

41:03

persons responsible for

41:06

Oakley's disappearance have told other

41:08

people about what happened

41:10

to Oakley? And if you do believe that, is there

41:12

a message that you would like to convey

41:14

to these people? Anyone with information?

41:17

I guess I'd say probably. Usually

41:20

people don't operate in a vacuum.

41:23

Human nature is we have to share something

41:26

with someone. I think it alleviates the conscience

41:28

somewhat, or it brings someone

41:30

in and makes you feel better, or it makes you feel

41:32

more comforted when you get something

41:35

off your chest to someone. So I believe, yeah, between

41:37

both Intercorals and Jordan Bowers, anyone else

41:40

connected, there has

41:42

been conversations. I would say if someone

41:44

out there does know, my goal

41:47

is not to, I guess,

41:49

disrupt someone's life, it's to find

41:52

Oakley Carlson. So if they do

41:54

have information, then that's

41:56

where the information is gonna go. It's gonna go

41:58

to me to find Oakley Carlson. and not to try

42:01

to dig into their life or what

42:03

they've got going on. I just, I want them to come

42:05

forward and say, hey, I've got this piece of information

42:07

that might help you and

42:09

steer me in the right direction.

42:11

That's great. Thank you so much,

42:13

Chief Paul Logan for spending some

42:15

time with us today and telling us about

42:18

Oakley and your investigation and to her disappearance.

42:21

We really appreciate it.

42:22

You bet. Well, thank you for having me on and continuing

42:24

to talk about Oakley. And if there's anything

42:27

that comes up in the case, any developments,

42:29

let us know if it's worth coming on again to talk

42:31

about, if you feel like that's important, doors

42:34

open. Will do. Appreciate

42:36

it. Hey

42:58

listeners, this is Tim and Lance here. Have

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