0:00

You

0:04

.

2:45

Now that song is called Dujuro , but Abulayé

2:47

Dear Bhatti . This

2:50

amazing contemporary African musician

2:52

is from Mali and was born into

2:54

a griot family . Griots

2:58

usually have the responsibility of keeping the stories

3:00

of families and tribes alive in oral

3:02

tradition . Now

3:04

, where are my mellows ? Please forgive me , my name

3:07

is Mr Pierre . Welcome to 4545s

3:09

, my first of 2024 . Now

3:12

some of you may be saying to yourselves P what's wrong

3:15

with you ? Why are you so mellow ? Well , I'm

3:17

trying to first ease myself into 2024

3:19

. And secondly , in

3:21

terms of my guest that I'm going to introduce

3:24

to you shortly , this guy's a mellow

3:26

cat . He brings calm , wisdom , jokes

3:28

On the flip . He brings good vibes and positivity

3:31

. This Beijing

3:33

BF friend's been on stage and on the screen

3:36

, from Star Wars to Queen Charlotte , juju

3:40

Caesar to the Barber , shrock Chronicles with the National

3:42

Theatre , and

3:45

groundbreaking roles in the bill and

3:47

this life . Ladies and gentlemen

3:50

, let me introduce you to the actor

3:52

extraordinaire . Please welcome to 4545s

3:55

, mr Cyril Inry . Hi

4:09

Cyril , welcome to 4545s . How are you ?

4:10

doing brother . I'm doing well . I'm doing

4:13

well . Thanks , pierre . Thanks for inviting me along

4:15

.

4:15

Yeah , sure , man , you've been busy . How are you having fun ? How's your acting

4:18

life ? What's going on ?

4:19

The actor's life is really interesting . At the moment

4:21

I've been doing a lot of voiceover , mainly

4:23

because we had the SAG

4:25

strike and we had the writer's

4:27

strike and everything fell

4:29

off like a cliff , and that's cool

4:32

, though , because I

4:34

got a new voiceover

4:36

agent . I think about two years ago and

4:39

during pandemic , or was it just before

4:41

, I can't remember , but it worked out well

4:43

.

4:44

So yeah , you've got that booming voice

4:46

, bass , erudite , ruler , lens

4:48

, garage sort of rock .

4:54

I'm not doing any , being chased around

4:56

by George Galloway type Big

4:58

brother house stuff .

5:03

The voiceovers were good because , as you know , my cousin

5:05

Sean who also suggested that I interview him

5:08

or have a conversation rather he's

5:10

done a lot of voiceover work as well . So you got the voice to do

5:12

that and I'm going to do a little bit of research on

5:14

you . Sir , you've done some voiceover for

5:16

, like , is it games , video games or stuff

5:18

like that as well ?

5:19

I've done quite a few , and it's weird

5:21

because I've never played a video

5:23

game in my life , because

5:25

I'm a bit addictive , so way

5:29

back when we used to still have sort

5:31

of table tennis on the screen

5:33

and Tetris . Of

5:38

course those sorts of games . What

5:41

I would find is that I would spend hours

5:43

and hours of wasted time and then

5:45

, you go . How did I get into

5:47

this ? It's like four hours of my day gone

5:50

Just putting boxes

5:52

into shapes Tessellation

5:55

I think the word's called yeah and yeah

5:57

. So yeah , I can't

5:59

go there .

6:01

So I don't do any video games myself , but the

6:03

voiceover is that a new industry

6:06

or burgeoning voiceover with video games ? Is

6:08

there like syndication involved ? Or is it just a

6:10

gig like you would do for anything else ?

6:11

It's a gig like you would do for anything else . Yeah

6:14

, I mean , sadly they

6:17

make a lot of money games and yet

6:19

they don't quite have the

6:21

payout .

6:23

I'm thinking like if you're a song and you're performing a singer

6:26

on that song , you would get

6:28

usage .

6:28

And you'd get the number of plays , but

6:31

you don't get that .

6:32

Generally it's a buyout .

6:34

I think , unless you know , you're mega famous . I

6:37

think they need to invent a new alphabet

6:43

. Yeah , yeah , to put me past the Z

6:45

list , yeah .

6:47

Yeah , Well , that is an alphabet . Before

6:50

I get that wrong , because I've already had an uppercut from is

6:54

it Henry or Henry ? Well

6:56

, I've renounced it Henry . Right . And

6:59

that's Igbo's surname , apparently , oh

7:01

yeah , that's Igbo and that's is that the heart

7:03

of the Igbo tribal region .

7:06

It is actually the heart of the Igbo

7:08

tribe . Yeah , the first Henry , I

7:10

believe , came down the river , which is now called

7:12

Henry , in 870

7:15

AD , something like that . Yeah

7:17

, there's a little museum actually in

7:19

the village , yeah , so , yeah

7:22

, you can go and research it .

7:24

So was that come with having that as your surname ? Is

7:26

that popular in your region ? Or is it

7:28

because of the , the , the , the sort of well

7:30

it's .

7:31

I mean it's from the family . So

7:33

yeah , I suppose it's big . I

7:35

suppose it's big . I don't

7:37

know , you just you just live

7:39

the stuff .

7:41

But does it come with any sort of ? I don't

7:44

know .

7:44

You can take . You can take those own titles

7:46

and stuff . I haven't

7:48

. I've chosen not to . You

7:51

know I live here . It's

7:53

very different . You

7:55

know , I spent my first seven

7:58

years in

8:00

Nigeria and unfortunately

8:03

quite a lot of that time was

8:05

the Nigerian Biafran War , so the

8:08

civil war . So one

8:10

of the songs which didn't make it to this

8:13

list because I couldn't quite work it out

8:15

, Ladies and gentlemen . we had about 200

8:17

songs to filter through , but we got the

8:19

carry on this , but there

8:21

was a song which , as a kid you know , used to

8:23

go something like

8:34

, and that was a . That was a Biafran

8:36

song and

8:38

I couldn't . I

8:41

used to have a 45

8:43

of it , but it disappeared

8:46

somewhere between my mum passing

8:48

and yeah . So I need to

8:51

get that .

8:51

now , I'm a , I'm a , I'm a , I'm what we call

8:53

a crate digger . We like to find .

8:54

Yeah , I couldn't tell you what it's called . I

8:56

couldn't tell you what the words mean . It

8:59

was part of my youth , yeah and yeah

9:02

, and so that that's part

9:04

of you know where I , but I live here

9:06

now . Yeah , yeah , you know .

9:08

I live a lot of places , yeah , but that's because

9:11

, again , you're a global citizen . You're on the show

9:13

as well . I want to touch on that . I want to talk

9:15

about your early years . What's your early recollections

9:18

of living in Nigeria , fanny ?

9:20

Well , I mean , you know , this was the 60s , right

9:22

, I was born in 61 . And

9:25

yeah I , I

9:28

mean I had an ideal life really

9:31

, because my , my mum was Bajan , my

9:33

mum's Bajan , or was Bajan , you

9:35

know , and my mum and dad had met here

9:37

in the 50s .

9:39

Oh right .

9:43

And then dad , like a lot of the contemporaries

9:45

of the time you know , who had made

9:48

it to uni generally through

9:50

scholarship and stuff , they

9:52

came here , they studied , they went

9:54

back and ran major industries , you

9:56

know , and my

9:59

dad went back and essentially

10:02

ran NITEL , the Nigerian

10:04

Telephone Service Impressive

10:06

. And then , yeah , as my uncle did

10:08

with Reddy Kilowatt in Barbados , as

10:11

my other uncle , Morris

10:13

, did in Dominica , so

10:16

you had , you

10:18

had these pioneers

10:21

. I mean this was the time of , you

10:24

know , wallachianca

10:27

and George Lamming and

10:29

Sam Selvon and others

10:31

. You know these

10:33

are giants in their field and they

10:35

, you know , in engineering , in science

10:38

, in whatever , and they're not really recognised

10:40

.

10:40

But I think it's a great point . I think you know there's

10:42

another parallel , several . Everybody's got a unique story

10:44

, but what I'd like to impress is that

10:46

like , for example , it wasn't just a Win-Worst

10:48

story people there's several other people

10:50

from the Black diaspora that had had

10:53

a plan , had plans , ideas . So

10:55

, for example , my dad he

10:57

went to university . My granddad

10:59

came from , came from a merchant

11:01

, navy background , etc . Etc

11:04

. All my uncles and uncles are highly educated or

11:06

decently educated . My dad

11:08

went to university , etc . And he came over here to what

11:11

should have happened as part of colonisation etc

11:13

. You should have had balanced education

11:15

in terms of so when they came

11:17

here they could just crack on , but obviously they had to re-study

11:20

with a British certificate , you

11:23

know to do that . And my dad went on to work in Q8

11:25

and then Middle East etc . So he had a plan

11:27

and what he wanted to do . I think it's really important

11:29

to know that . You know there's a lot of engineers that came over

11:31

. I hope for additional qualification or

11:33

practising etc .

11:34

etc .

11:35

And it's really interesting to hear that your family did

11:37

that .

11:37

I mean , there were loads of you know , we

11:40

tend to skip over things

11:43

, like you know the Pan-African Congress

11:46

in . Manchester . And you know , these

11:48

were giants , these people , and

11:51

they came over , they , you know , and the reason

11:53

that my mum met my dad was

11:55

because my uncle , claude , who was also

11:57

studying , in there was . You

11:59

know he was in uni

12:02

with my dad , Excellent and

12:04

you know he had decided that the two

12:07

other black guys on the course , you

12:09

know , needed a decent meal and my mum and my

12:11

aunt were here

12:13

also studying Right and

12:15

so he invited them round for Sunday lunch

12:17

and you

12:20

know , both those men married my

12:22

mum and my

12:24

aunt , and they

12:26

all went back to their respective

12:28

countries and , you know , built their countries

12:31

. You know , and it was a time of , it was a

12:33

different time you know we had you

12:35

know this was a time of assassinations going

12:37

on of leaders . You know , you

12:39

know Kennedy and

12:41

later Martin Luther King .

12:44

I was fellow Cootie having his , his , his , his .

12:46

Yeah , fellow fellow was younger

12:48

by a long way . So you know that

12:50

was sort of after but , you know

12:53

I mean the , the whole sort

12:55

of thing of getting back to a

12:57

burgeoning country , especially with a

12:59

, with a wife who was

13:01

not from there . You know , I

13:04

like to say well , you know my parents were of

13:06

the same tribe because a lot of the ebos

13:08

, you know , ended up in Barbados and

13:11

you know there's a lot

13:13

of Europe ended up in . Jamaica

13:15

and you know others . But the fact

13:17

is I'd like to say well , you know , they were there

13:19

, they were of the same tribe , just 400 years

13:21

apart , and they

13:24

met each other again . And then mum going

13:26

back to Nigeria and starting

13:28

all sorts of wonderful things

13:31

you know magazine being involved with airlines

13:33

being .

13:33

You know , I mean she was , she was you know out

13:35

there going and getting it yeah , yeah , yeah , you might

13:38

have thought funky back in the day , she was , she was

13:40

you know , just full on you know , full on , and

13:43

you know these were people who

13:45

, they were pioneers .

13:46

I mean , they really were . We're talking young

13:48

people . And when I look back and I think , could

13:51

I have gone across the world

13:53

? You know , probably the

13:55

first in well , not in mum's

13:57

case , but you know the first in

14:00

your family to be in

14:02

this big educational

14:04

system and

14:06

take all that natural

14:09

brain power and use it in this way . You

14:11

know , it's sort of you

14:14

look at CLR , james or any of those guys

14:16

and you go , yeah , sam Sullivan

14:18

and others documented these people

14:20

, you know .

14:21

Well , I'm sorry , I'm not gonna let you to tell yourself . Because

14:25

why have you on the show ? Because you're like a pioneer to me

14:27

and we'll talk about your early well

14:31

, my early singing

14:33

on TV and we'll

14:35

talk about that . There'll be a thank you coming in later , so

14:37

be prepared for that . So I'll talk about

14:39

before we get to that . Because I was a pioneer

14:41

, I was told I was a pioneer coming out of the hood , peckham

14:44

, growing up in Peckham in the 80s Fatcher

14:47

Times , where going to university

14:49

I was going for , you know , wasn't was

14:51

frowned upon because A , I know it's survival

14:53

mode , but also there's a class adherence

14:56

and not

14:58

what you could achieve is what you should do . I suppose

15:00

to that . So , apart from me doing

15:03

what I should do , going on beyond that , there was a

15:05

dissatisfaction

15:08

, let's say , in me going to university

15:10

and it was actually quite difficult to do that . So what comes

15:13

with being pioneering is some people

15:15

not being 100% your back

15:17

as well . So you know there's risks that you take

15:19

with that in terms of your sense of self .

15:20

You gotta step out of your comfort zone you know , and

15:23

you know there's nothing you can't do

15:25

. One of the great things about , you

15:28

know , having parents like mine was that their

15:30

example , even though you

15:32

know there was a lot of them that

15:34

when I decided I needed

15:36

to go into drama was

15:38

against that , because by then we had the

15:40

mold of you know doctor

15:43

, lawyer you know , and that's what you

15:45

, that's what you have to follow .

15:46

I mean , I don't know Drama , what are you doing ?

15:48

drama , drama . What are you doing ? Is that really

15:50

what you want to do ? Look at you wasting your brain

15:52

. You know these people are gypsies and vagabonds

15:55

. Uh-uh , bushman , you know . So

15:57

, all that stuff , you know

15:59

, vagrant , vagrant . Look

16:02

at this , this boy . We

16:04

spend all this time putting all this

16:06

education into this boy and look at what he wants

16:08

to do . He wants to go and hide and have to be prostitutes

16:11

and vagabonds . Uh-uh , you

16:14

will never work . You will never have a job . What's

16:17

wrong with you ?

16:18

You know so it's all that stuff

16:20

, you know .

16:21

But luckily for me by that time they were divorced

16:23

. Um , you know so what

16:26

one said , the other would go against , even if

16:28

they didn't want you .

16:29

You know , they were careful about you going down that path

16:31

, but you said something about being at your comfort

16:33

zone . Can you talk to me about being thrown out of

16:35

your comfort zone in terms of because you mentioned

16:37

to me when we talked prior to this ? Yeah , you

16:40

got one of the last or one of the very few planes out

16:42

before you went to Portugal .

16:43

Yeah , what's in there . Well , you

16:46

know the it's

16:49

interesting because at the time we're talking now , you know

16:51

we have what's going on in Gaza

16:54

. Yeah , and you know

16:56

, and people

16:58

like to justify killing , you know

17:01

, and it's so wrong . What

17:03

you had there was you had too

17:06

many people being , you

17:09

know , put in a siege , where you know

17:11

, and starved , and

17:14

it was difficult because dad was actually going around

17:16

setting up radio stations at the time , Right

17:18

, and because of his engineering

17:21

qualifications .

17:22

Yeah .

17:22

And he was personally wanted and all that sort of stuff , and then mum's

17:25

running around the country trying to avoid . You

17:28

know what was going on . I mean

17:30

, I remember we were .

17:31

With you .

17:32

I happened to be with her on , you

17:34

know , one of the last moments

17:36

in Lagos when soldiers came looking

17:39

for dad , you know , and she

17:41

had packed up most

17:43

of the house in a truck and

17:46

the soldiers came around the corner and they were shooting

17:48

and stuff and the driver ran off

17:50

and you know and didn't want to , and

17:53

mum basically jumped in the cab

17:55

, with me on the seat , and

17:57

you know drove . You

17:59

know drove her belongings and you know all

18:01

her life out of that you know

18:03

and got away . So this is a woman , you

18:05

know , thrown into this situation . You

18:08

know these were difficult situations . Yeah . We

18:10

went around the country . We ended up in Port

18:12

Harcourt . There was a bombing raid . You

18:14

know that was pretty

18:17

traumatic in the end . You know , and the

18:19

stuff that I saw there it happened to be on my

18:21

sister's birthday , this particular bombing

18:23

raid . And you know

18:26

, there was trying to keep a sense of normality and

18:28

there was a birthday party going on in

18:31

our house and all these kids and

18:33

this bombing raid happened . There was shrapnel

18:35

and other things and I ran out

18:37

the door , you know , and

18:40

unfortunately for me , there

18:43

was a policeman running down the centre

18:45

of the road and a piece of shrapnel came and

18:48

took his neck

18:50

, basically his head , clean off and

18:53

you know , and

18:55

his head bobbed on

18:57

the tarmac dirt whilst

19:03

his body carried on for a few paces

19:05

. You know that was . It was difficult

19:07

stuff to deal with .

19:08

Yeah .

19:09

Anyhow , we were

19:12

lucky I suppose it

19:14

was a range for us to get out on one

19:16

of those rescue planes , which

19:18

was one of the last

19:20

. It was September 68

19:22

at the time and

19:25

we got out to Portugal . The

19:29

Portuguese were at that

19:31

point , one of the few Western countries that

19:33

was siding with the Afro

19:35

in terms of cessation .

19:37

Yeah .

19:40

And so we got out to there .

19:41

So you're lucky in a way . You're lucky to

19:44

be alive . You

19:46

know , and I know , what that's like . Do

19:49

you think that affected your , your other view going

19:52

forward ?

19:52

Yeah , yeah . Let's say , oh

19:54

yeah , I did Suddenly . You're

19:57

a refugee . You know , I hear all this stuff about

19:59

refugees and you know , unfortunately

20:02

, we have people who I

20:05

would describe as I would describe as with no

20:07

humanity . Yeah , you know who

20:09

care only about the dollar . Yeah

20:12

, you know spouting a lot

20:14

of rubbish about why people

20:16

you know escape

20:19

, right exactly , and

20:22

then they put them in more torturous situations

20:24

and blame them for their life circumstances

20:27

and it's very unfortunate . But yeah , it did

20:29

affect me . It affected me for a long time . There

20:31

were lots of things that I didn't deal with for a long

20:33

, long time way into my adulthood . Of course we

20:36

had to park it . Yeah , you had

20:38

to park it and get on with life and

20:40

, you know , ended up

20:42

in England .

20:46

Were you ? Were you fluent in Portuguese ? Were you there long enough to speak

20:48

? No , no , no , I'm not fluent in Portuguese . No

20:50

, I don't really speak .

20:51

Portuguese . You know , there's a tiny little bit

20:53

of stuff . It's always good to know , you

20:56

know it's always good to know enough

20:59

to be able to eat . I like to get your ass

21:01

trouble . What ?

21:01

do you ?

21:01

trouble . And to run you know

21:03

to run , it's

21:07

yeah it was a really interesting time , and

21:09

you know , as a kid . And then coming

21:13

back to London , my uncle

21:15

Claude flying in settling us

21:17

, my aunt , that's nice . You

21:19

know my aunt Quinn , who I mean

21:21

Shepherd's Bush , who took us in for

21:24

a little while and then you know eventually

21:26

getting a place and mum working and you

21:28

know all the rest of it and dad still being in Nigeria

21:30

setting up and you know , trying

21:33

to save his country really . So it was , yeah , it

21:35

was a really difficult

21:37

time . And

21:40

you landed , and this was 68

21:43

, you know . And you

21:45

landed in Shepherd's

21:47

Bush and Was

21:50

it cold ? It was freezing . It was freezing

21:52

I'd never . And

21:55

it wasn't like I expected , because I had a child's

21:57

vision of what life was

22:00

going to be . So

22:02

you heard certain things in Nigeria and

22:05

even being highly educated , all

22:07

the rest of it and you only

22:09

knew of certain things . So I was expecting this

22:11

sort of cartoon island , which

22:15

was like an upside down ice cream coat with

22:18

a castle on top I was

22:20

going to meet the king and queen , and Elvis

22:23

and the Beatles were going to be there , not

22:25

to Queen Charlotte , all right . No , not

22:28

Queen Charlotte , there's still Elizabeth

22:30

this time , and

22:35

I had this kid's eye

22:37

vision of what it was going to be and

22:40

actually the reality of it turned out to be

22:42

Shepherd's Bush Green With

22:45

old days , shepherd's Bush Green . There was

22:47

no Westfield then and

22:50

yeah , it was

22:52

gray , overcast

22:55

. It was gray , it was overcast . We came in at

22:57

night . My aunt wanted to get back to watch

23:00

Gina Sharples in

23:02

Coronation Street . It

23:04

was her little peccadillo . She was more interested

23:06

in that than getting back on time , than us

23:09

four kids who have come from the war zone , and

23:13

that was , yeah , it was great , it

23:15

was beautiful , it was wonderful , it

23:17

was unwelcoming , it was welcoming . Yeah

23:19

, yeah .

23:20

Well , let's hear your first tune , let's get to

23:22

your first days in London and your

23:25

schooling as well .

23:26

Okay , well , I'm going to start

23:28

off with I

23:31

wish I knew how it would feel to be free . Nina

23:34

Simone , yeah , let's do that no

23:38

.

23:58

Okay , yeah

24:01

, I

24:08

wish I knew how

24:11

it would feel to

24:14

be free . I

24:17

wish I could break all

24:20

the chains holding

24:22

me . I

24:25

wish I could say all

24:28

the things that I should say

24:30

. Say I'm loud

24:32

, who's saying , clear for

24:35

the whole round world

24:37

to hear . I

24:40

wish I could share

24:42

all the love

24:44

that's in my heart , Remove

24:49

all the bars that

24:51

keep us

24:53

apart . I

24:56

wish you could know

24:58

what it means

25:00

to be me . Then

25:03

you'd see and

25:05

agree that every

25:07

man should be free

25:09

. I wish

25:12

I could give

25:14

all I'm longin'

25:16

to give . I

25:19

wish I could live

25:21

like I'm longing

25:25

to live . I

25:27

wish I could do

25:29

all the things

25:32

that I can do , Though

25:34

I'm way overdue

25:37

. I'd be stunned

25:40

and anew . Well

25:42

, I wish I could

25:44

be like

25:46

a bird in the sky

25:48

. How sweet

25:51

it would be if I'd

25:54

my heart . I could

25:56

fly . I'd soar

25:59

to the sun and

26:02

look down at the

26:04

scene . Then I'd sing

26:06

cause I know yeah

26:09

, and I'd sing

26:11

cause I know yeah . Then

26:13

I'd sing cause I

26:15

know . I know how it feels

26:17

. I

26:20

know how it feels

26:22

to be free . Yeah , yeah , I

26:25

know how it feels . I

26:28

know how it feels

26:30

, how it

26:32

feels to

26:34

be free .

26:39

Yeah , I can't . I

26:41

said tear jerker .

26:42

Anyway , you know it gets you down there right . Oh , yeah

26:44

, yeah , yeah . It's

26:46

like , before we talk about that

26:48

, people , you might realise

26:50

that Melody , that's also a read

26:52

done by Billy Taylor Trio for the

26:54

film 90 , whatever soundtrack

26:57

for the BBC . If you wonder where Melody came

26:59

from , talk to me about that tune .

27:00

Yeah well , it was also used by

27:03

Barry Norman . That's what I meant

27:05

yeah . Barry Norman used it

27:07

on film yeah

27:09

, well , the year used to change every year . but yeah , Billy

27:11

Taylor Trio , that's what I meant , yeah , and

27:14

that's what's so fantastic

27:16

about this , because when I was growing

27:18

up , you know being a , you know I love film , you know

27:20

you

27:22

would watch Barry Norman , you know , and

27:25

find out what the latest films were , you know , all

27:27

through the 70s , yeah , yep , and

27:30

yeah , it was 70s , 80s

27:32

, 90s , you know . I mean , he carried on for a long while . He was the big , big

27:34

film .

27:35

And then Jonathan Ross took over , didn't he ? Jonathan Ross

27:37

took over later on , never to

27:39

the same .

27:40

you know degree of

27:42

skill yeah

27:44

, and passion , yeah and passion , but that

27:46

was the tune . You know they used the

27:48

soundtrack of that . But what

27:52

, nina , you

27:55

know , if you come from struggle and

27:57

you know , as I say , I talk

27:59

about arriving here in 68 , you

28:01

know all this was going on in civil

28:03

rights and this

28:06

was a woman who you

28:09

know , even at that young

28:11

age , you would just sort

28:13

of know about , generally

28:16

through my older sisters you know , through my sister

28:18

, maneek and Mary . You know

28:20

, and also through Mum

28:22

you know , because she had a mum

28:25

, most of Mum's records . You know now my records

28:27

.

28:28

Oh , really yeah yeah . They

28:30

need a home . You know what I mean . No , no , no , they're fine . They're

28:32

fine where they are .

28:34

And I don't know , you know anyhow , you know

28:36

, I'm sure that's why you

28:38

know , you have these shelves and shelves

28:41

of LPs and stuff . Oh

28:44

yeah , and it's just fantastic . But , nina

28:46

, I

28:49

remember , you know , way back there

28:51

was a song of hers called Turning Point , which

28:54

is about , you know , that moment where

28:57

a child is introduced

29:00

to racism , you know

29:03

, and it's such a little sort

29:05

of nursery rhyme tune , but it's so

29:07

powerful . You know , this was all

29:09

with not only classical

29:12

and jazz chops that

29:14

were just , you know , far

29:16

beyond . You know what a pure

29:18

voice . Listen to that voice

29:20

in this . You know , I wish I knew how it would feel to

29:22

be just so pure . And it gets right to

29:24

the heart of everything that she's

29:27

singing about . And then you have

29:29

songs like Mississippi , goddamn

29:31

, and you know , and you go

29:33

. This is the struggle , this is exactly

29:35

what it is , and she's holding no

29:37

punches .

29:38

You think about Turning Point . I was thinking about that when

29:40

I think somebody else was telling me about this . I can't remember what I was having this conversation

29:42

with , what I think I

29:45

didn't understand . Or , lastly , when

29:47

you're a child , you experience racism because you don't know what the definition

29:50

is , you haven't read it , you

29:52

just experience . You explain to somebody . It's like

29:54

why is that person , what does that word mean ? Why

29:57

does it hurt me ? But I don't understand what the word is . Yeah

30:00

, I wasn't rude to him , honestly , man

30:02

, why did he be horrible ? It's

30:04

all that sort of be polite to people have

30:06

manners . Grown up to lovely people have

30:08

manners for them to be revered and my

30:10

mum comes from a

30:13

pro-colonial . She's very

30:15

rude . So if a white person tells you anything

30:17

, it's got to be right , it's got to be true and you've got to

30:19

have this extra heightened behaviour around

30:22

them . So I don't

30:24

understand where the ? I think that's

30:26

called survival it is .

30:28

It's called survival . Yeah , it's

30:30

just like okay , I've got to grow in this

30:32

system and I need to protect my own , so I teach them

30:34

.

30:35

Yeah , absolutely right , but I can't understand where the the

30:39

next thing , because I don't want racism . At that time I don't

30:41

understand what it was and I didn't do anything to them

30:43

. So why is something unprovoked ? Do you know what I mean

30:45

? I can't work it out . So that turning point , I think

30:47

for me was there .

30:47

Well , that's exactly you know

30:49

when I first arrived here and . I

30:52

was introduced to class , as I say , I came in September

30:54

68 , and so term

30:56

had just started and

30:58

everybody knew about Biafra

31:01

on the news . It was

31:03

one of the first , along with

31:05

Vietnam that was actually

31:07

there on your TVs in black and

31:09

white , with the question cross stomachs and all the rest

31:12

of it , and

31:15

I was taken into this class by the

31:17

headmistress and she said

31:19

this is Cyril , he's from Biafra

31:22

, that's in Africa

31:24

. Now go and sit down . And

31:27

that was it .

31:28

Sorry , I should laugh at this .

31:31

And then the next thing I knew

31:33

was being at

31:36

the break and we had been doing a

31:39

painting exercise and we were all told to

31:41

take our stuff and wash them in the cloakroom and whatever

31:43

. And this kid came

31:46

up to me , you know first

31:48

day , and said where's the bone

31:50

from your nose ? And

31:53

it started from there . And what Nina

31:56

did was she cut through all that stuff , she

31:58

went okay with this song

32:00

Turning Point . I wish I knew

32:02

how it would feel to be free with you know

32:05

the Beatles song on . Blackbird

32:07

with you know she hit

32:09

right in the nub of it .

32:12

And what was good about her was that she was , on the project

32:14

, a woman , but she had to have her own escape

32:16

plan as well from what was suspected . She

32:22

had to do jazz and she had to escape and

32:24

flee and to get her career going

32:26

as well , so she had like a paralleled escape . Do

32:29

you know what I mean ?

32:30

A two-pronged escape , I should say , you know , when

32:32

I first heard Nina Simone , you know , mainly

32:36

because she came at it . Well , when I heard Turning Point

32:38

, you know , and it just spoke to me and I thought , oh yeah

32:40

, of course it's some parent

32:43

telling the child don't

32:45

do this , don't mix with them . The child

32:47

doesn't feel that naturally .

32:48

Children .

32:49

Just you know , they play you

32:51

know , because

32:53

that's what they're interested in doing . And then all

32:55

that stuff comes on it and

32:57

then with I wish I knew how it would feel to be free , and I

33:00

think at every point in

33:02

my life this song applies you

33:04

know , and

33:07

she gets to . It's such

33:09

a joyous song at the same time

33:11

. You know as calling

33:13

for , you know , and you

33:15

know I'd SORE TO THE SUN .

33:17

The second half of the chord progression is quite optimistic

33:20

.

33:21

It's really really nice , it's

33:24

just brilliant . And so , yeah , at all points

33:27

in my life , you know , with

33:29

dealing with whatever came out , you

33:31

know I can come back to this song and

33:33

she releases me , you know .

33:36

I think you should say that . I mean , I'm just listening to what you say

33:39

there and , being free , does that always change what

33:41

free looks like or feels like based on

33:43

what you've survived or what

33:45

it could have been ? Um

33:48

?

33:48

so I was a bit deep in my mind . I

33:52

think we

33:55

as human beings always want more , you know

33:57

. But if you are

33:59

in a position where you're

34:01

constantly having to justify

34:06

fight for your existence , no

34:10

matter how high up the ladder you get , you

34:12

know there's

34:16

plenty of examples of this . You

34:18

know you can be the president of the United States

34:20

and still don't throw shoes at you .

34:22

Yeah , you know if you have to

34:24

be able to certain hue .

34:25

You know and you

34:28

know , so you still need to be going

34:30

and dealing with this and

34:32

to be to be truly free

34:34

.

34:34

Yeah .

34:35

You know we have to . You know , as Bob Molly said , emancipate

34:37

our minds . You know that's what we

34:40

have to do . You know we have to take that bit and go

34:42

. Yeah , I have to free myself in here because you

34:44

all aren't going to do it for me , yeah , yeah , yeah .

34:46

And in the manifestation of that yeah , I

34:48

mean for me I want to talk about creativity . If

34:52

I didn't have that , I don't think I would be able to exercise

34:54

that free mind enough . Yeah .

34:56

I mean , you know you talk about DJing and talk about

34:58

you know getting to that place where you , you

35:01

know you went and you grabbed what you needed yeah

35:03

. And no

35:05

matter where the tying

35:09

down is coming from , even if it's coming from a place

35:11

of love , yes , even if it's coming from

35:13

you know . You

35:15

know where parents get

35:18

on with . Oh well , you can't be , you know

35:21

. Yeah , you know . I understand that you

35:23

want to go that way with your sexuality . Yeah , yeah

35:25

, yeah , yeah , but you know no no , no

35:27

no , no , because you would be in trouble in your life

35:29

and yeah , all that sort of stuff , and you go

35:31

, yeah , okay , well , I

35:34

need to be free , I need to be

35:36

able to live my life you

35:39

know we enjoy it and happiness

35:41

and striving to just , you

35:44

know , do the things I can do and I have

35:46

a right to do that .

35:47

It's scary though , and what

35:49

that feels like , because for me it was quite oppressive

35:52

. That needs to be free . That needs to express its decree

35:54

. There was just nothing else that was as paramount

35:56

in my mind or myself than

35:59

to do that . Yeah , I'm not saying that others

36:01

who don't do the same are wrong , but I was just so

36:03

pervasive for me . It's oppressive

36:05

it comes in on it , yeah . And you

36:08

know it closes you in .

36:09

I'm doing a . I just did a

36:12

thing for a charity , hugh Men , which

36:14

is a charity which

36:16

helps men who

36:19

because the statistics are huge men

36:21

, you know , men who commit suicide

36:23

, and you know and

36:25

the premise

36:30

of this ad , you know he's big

36:32

, you know live billboards that are just by Tottenham

36:34

Court Road

36:37

Tube Station and is that

36:39

? You know the guy is standing there

36:41

and you know he looks at this thing and

36:43

he realizes that the world is coming in

36:45

on him and then his face is pressed against the

36:47

glass and he's trapped and he doesn't understand , and

36:49

you know , and he pushes it away and slowly , and he's

36:52

looking at this thing and

36:54

you know , and it's about that

36:56

closing in , and it's about being able to

36:58

breathe , it's about being able to go . Yeah , it's all

37:00

right to be me .

37:01

Yeah , yeah , I'm

37:03

. Ironically , I'm working on launching

37:05

a charity with a friend of mine , patrick

37:07

Munger , and I'm a Nigerian as well . Thank you

37:09

to Igbo . Yeah , he

37:11

, um , and he's on working with

37:14

doing that and that's part of working with marginalized

37:17

communities who are suffering from

37:19

conversion therapy . Right , and

37:22

unfortunately , the conversion therapy

37:25

or the protection

37:27

around the legality around it , is quite

37:29

Eurocentric . Let's say it's in the case of all

37:31

the different aspects of how it might affect

37:33

it . We're trying to widen the communication

37:35

and the information that's available so

37:38

we can apply some more prescriptive

37:40

remediation activities to look

37:42

into that .

37:43

And that's really important to take on that stuff . I

37:45

remember way back in the day we had Black

37:47

Liners , which was a

37:50

charity which dealt with

37:52

HIV and AIDS For

37:56

Black men , women in

37:58

this country , and it was slowly

38:00

sort of subsumed and taken over

38:03

by GMFA

38:05

gay men fighting AIDS and others and

38:08

what happens is that that's not catered for

38:10

anymore and then you go . But actually when

38:12

you look at it , of the world

38:15

population that actually suffered from

38:17

HIV , actually the majority

38:19

is not white Euro men , although

38:26

that's important , it's great

38:28

that it's , you know . But we've got to look at that

38:31

and deal with this stuff . You know , on the ground . Look

38:33

at the women that are suffering from this and look at you

38:35

, know . So it's really important to have that freedom

38:38

, to be able to say , oh yeah , I count too .

38:40

I'm here . I have a wider , more strategic

38:43

approach to it all , rather than just where the money

38:45

is primarily .

38:47

And I remember when they approached me all

38:49

those years back because

38:52

at the time I think I was on the bill

38:54

at the time may have been even before

38:56

, that may have been when I was doing

38:58

this life or something like that but

39:02

yeah , and I was more than pleased

39:04

to go , yeah , okay , well , I'll stand up and be a voice

39:06

for that , because that's needed .

39:08

Oh , well done . I mean no from well done at

39:11

that time to that as well . Do you think

39:13

being free , or

39:15

maybe an identifier

39:18

of being free , is when you're in a position to do charity

39:20

work ?

39:22

Yeah , I mean that doesn't , you know , that doesn't preclude

39:24

you from suffering

39:28

or sort of closing in , you know , because there are still

39:30

. You know there are always things

39:33

to push back against . And there

39:36

were others , you know , mel B and

39:38

others that you know were patrons

39:40

of . Black . Liners at

39:43

the time . Yeah , you know , and that

39:45

was , yeah , it's fantastic to look

39:47

at that and go , yeah , actually we all need to stand up . We

39:49

need to do something about this and we need to get over the

39:51

stigma of whatever is being put on it . Yeah

39:55

, there is a freedom in

39:57

being able to say yeah , I can stand

39:59

up because I have a little

40:01

public profile . It makes it more

40:04

difficult although in the

40:06

day and age that we are now , what happens

40:08

is is that people like you know

40:10

, yusuehela's and whatever go .

40:12

Oh yes , well you know they're an actor . How dare

40:14

they you ?

40:14

know they're a celebrity . They're at

40:16

this . How dare they comment on life ? Because

40:19

, because you're yeah , you're a celebrity , you're a celebrity , you're

40:21

a job that you do , I'm

40:23

allowed to comment and , you

40:25

know , blight people's lives because I'm

40:27

a politician but I'm

40:29

not allowing you to say what actually

40:32

affects your life or others like you

40:34

, you know yeah exactly , and yeah , and

40:36

so we get all that bullshit , but it does allow

40:38

you to . It does allow you

40:40

to , people

40:43

will come and ask because you have a little profile .

40:45

Yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , that's a nice thought . You're rich for a freedom

40:47

. Yeah , yeah , I think . One

40:49

question I want to ask at the start of the show actually is a

40:51

big question . One of me is big is

40:54

who is zero ? How would you describe

40:56

yourself in your own words ?

40:58

I got no idea who he is .

41:00

No , just who would you say ? What do you feel

41:03

? I don't know If I

41:05

, okay , I'll say , if I say who I am , I'll

41:08

try to be fair , I'll try to have values , I'll try

41:10

to be open , I'll

41:12

try to just show love and compassion , but that's what

41:14

I am now . I hope to have always been there . But

41:16

who would you say ? How would you

41:18

describe yourself in a very true words perhaps ?

41:22

Try to do no harm , yeah , and

41:25

illuminate

41:30

the human condition .

41:32

Wow , that's beautiful man .

41:34

That's beautiful . I've

41:38

been lucky enough to have people guide

41:40

me towards stuff

41:42

in my life which , when it's

41:44

been difficult , they've

41:48

gently said oh , try this , try

41:50

that . Oh , when that happened for me

41:52

, this was what I did

41:54

. What do you think

41:57

? They haven't forced me to do anything

41:59

. They haven't , you know , but

42:01

they've allowed me a way of going

42:03

yeah okay , you can explore that . You

42:06

know one of my first teachers . Well

42:08

, one of the most influential teachers you

42:11

know , tony Fagan , who's

42:15

a drama teacher at Harlem Park

42:17

, and you

42:20

know when . I was having quite

42:22

a lot of trouble . I remember I was crying one

42:24

morning , yeah

42:26

, early before

42:28

the school had started . There were lots

42:31

of things going on , my parents , all

42:33

this other stuff going on . You know , being

42:35

a , you

42:38

know a few years on but still a refugee child

42:41

, still running , still scared , still . You

42:43

know , yeah , dealing with

42:45

. You know the questions

42:49

of sexuality , whatever else dealing

42:51

with , whether I was a Nigerian kid

42:54

, a Bayesian kid , a

42:56

Shepherds Bush kid , a Labrador

42:58

Grove kid , whatever , you

43:00

know how does this work . You

43:03

know all these big questions

43:05

how do I ? Fit in . How do I fit in ? Who

43:07

am I ? Who am I ? Why don't I have friends on that

43:09

side ? Why do I ? You know , and

43:13

you know anyhow

43:15

, he came up and I was , you

43:17

know , trying to hide the tears and whatever . He

43:19

asked me what's wrong and blah , blah , blah , and

43:23

he gently guided me towards this

43:25

book , you know , which happened to be the

43:27

Complete Works of Shakespeare , and he said you'll find

43:29

all the answers in there . He's

43:32

dealt with everything there . Have

43:34

a read . It may be difficult . Come and see me .

43:39

So wow , that's always something in your life I believe

43:41

that comes across . Hopefully that gives you that . And

43:44

I've had a luckily ever . Quite a few times I've been in Tripids and

43:46

I've spoken to people . I've

43:48

been up to Uncle George , who's obviously annoyingly

43:51

could see what I was going to become and what could be

43:53

before I renew it , sexuality

43:55

, everything before then , and he gave me lots of advice which I took

43:57

as a growing up to give me advice . I always had respect

43:59

for him but I was thinking he gave me advice little

44:02

bits along the way which

44:05

came in at the right time . So talk to

44:07

me about Holland Park . Anyway , I mean , that's

44:10

a school , what I was describing . Let me look at my notes here

44:12

. The Socialist Eaton , will

44:15

you say it was like that , because I'm at a great arts department

44:17

, holland .

44:18

Park was one of the best schools ever

44:21

.

44:21

Look at that smile on your face . For

44:23

me , it was one of the best schools .

44:25

Lots of people thought it failed

44:27

. It

44:29

produced people who I still know are

44:31

all over the world now . Like

44:35

one of my choices , we

44:38

had Angus okay , from

44:41

Ordronby Zeb , as you may

44:43

know him from Aswad . And . Yaz , the only

44:45

way is up . Yeah

44:57

, I used to follow her around the school . Yeah

45:00

, yeah , yeah

45:02

, yeah , me and Johnny Marcus , she

45:07

was older , she was older . Very tall

45:09

, with a big afro . All

45:15

those people . Tom Dixon , who

45:18

went on to be chief designer

45:20

at Habitat Hills , funcapolitan

45:23

he used to play in .

45:27

Yeah , yeah .

45:27

Laura Ashley's kids . Laura Ashley's kids were there

45:29

. Laura Ashley came to life drawing

45:31

classes in the art

45:33

department . You had Arnold Martin who ran the art

45:36

department .

45:36

After you were in , my mother would have you know that .

45:38

After school you had these life drawing

45:40

classes , holland Park , you had nude

45:42

models come in and sit there

45:44

for kids and shit , and you would

45:46

draw them . This was you

45:48

could call it progressive . I'm sure there

45:51

would be a lot of people going , oh how did they ? And

45:53

then you go yeah , well , shall we go back and look at

45:55

some of these pictures that you're looking at in the

45:57

National Portrait Gallery

45:59

or whatever , or the Tate Britain or whatever

46:01

, and tell me what were those artists painting

46:04

? Yeah , okay , cool , so we can get over

46:06

ourselves , you know , and we can actually teach

46:08

some kids and get them to love stuff .

46:11

So you were given the six-bit book . What

46:13

happened to the result of that ? You read it and you took it in .

46:15

I took in parts of that . I was also part

46:17

of the youth theatre

46:20

they're after

46:22

school which you know

46:24

I remember we did

46:26

regarding the label Displaced Person , which was

46:28

a show based on Brex , the

46:31

Children's Crusade , and

46:33

we had a writer

46:36

, pretty famous writer , who

46:39

created Frank Ross's Out and other

46:42

series of the time the 70s series

46:44

that were seminal , you know big stuff

46:47

, and anyhow he had to go off during

46:50

this process of improvisation

46:52

around this poem and then him writing it up

46:54

and stuff , and he simply turned around and said you're the eldest

46:56

, yeah , you can finish the play

46:58

. And I went what how ?

47:01

old , are you roughly ?

47:02

I'm 16

47:04

, 15 , 16 . And yeah

47:07

, so I use my experience of

47:10

Biafra , you know , of

47:12

being a refugee , to write the

47:14

end of this thing it's your personal truth . And

47:17

yeah , you know , and I knew no better

47:19

and I'd been told to write it , and

47:21

so somebody had the faith that

47:23

I could do this , you know . And

47:25

so you know , through the improvisations

47:28

that we did and whatever , and I you know

47:30

, I remember the

47:32

speech started a little while ago .

47:34

war ended you know , and

47:36

this .

47:37

Anyhow , we ended up taking

47:39

this play to Edinburgh

47:41

and doing really

47:44

, really well , then bringing

47:46

it back and taking

47:48

it because we won schools on the South Bank

47:50

and doing it in what was then the

47:52

Cotslo is now the Dorthman

47:55

Theatre , you know , and you

47:58

know this was the sort of opportunity that Holland

48:00

Park gave , you know . So whilst you looked

48:02

at it and you go , yeah , okay , it's Bohemia

48:05

and it's got all these , you know . It's got Mandy Moon

48:07

, keith Moon's daughter and various others

48:10

and people are smoking a lot of stuff

48:12

. You know Stephen Moore's children and various

48:15

you know smoking or they're doing

48:17

. And the Stones

48:20

not Rolling Stones , although they were around

48:23

, you know , in

48:25

Kensington , but Barbara

48:27

and David Stone who ran the gate cinemas

48:29

. You know people like

48:31

that , who were just open and

48:34

and loved you for who you were and

48:36

let you be who you were , and so I ended

48:38

up meeting people like Nick Nollty

48:41

.

48:42

And it's like pause , rewind

48:44

, right . So we need to have a conversation about this

48:46

yeah , yeah . Mvs , point

48:48

of the podcast number one . You

48:50

met Nick Nollty right . Yeah , you know

48:52

in the 70s like man

48:55

. There's peak there . What's going on , I think ?

48:57

I don't want to ask you about that we're in Edinburgh

49:00

and Jordan's

49:02

parents who's Jordan ? Jordan is Jordan

49:04

Stone , who's a

49:06

wonderful director now lives

49:08

in Italy and

49:13

his parents , david and Barbara , turn

49:15

up in Edinburgh because once the

49:17

Edinburgh Fringe Festival

49:20

is on , also the Edinburgh Film

49:22

Festival is on . Oh right , so we're in summertime , yeah , and

49:25

in August . And they turn up

49:27

in this limo with

49:29

this guy in the back of the car and

49:31

I go that's the guy from Rich Manball man . You

49:33

know , and

49:35

he has just done this film , which they've helped

49:38

produce , and it's a hoax

49:40

.

49:40

A hoax , it's Nick Nollty .

49:41

Wait , wait , wait so myself and Jordan go to this

49:43

premiere .

49:44

Wait , wait , stop , stop , stop , stop . The premiere is

49:46

important . Yeah , You've just gone to a limo in

49:49

the summer with Nick Nollty . Yeah , that's how

49:51

I've seen that moment in Edinburgh .

49:54

So , you've got all that going

49:56

on , ok , and this is all due to being at Holland

49:58

Park . This is all due to having open

50:01

people around you .

50:02

Wow , this is all due to having you know so

50:04

just life experience , wise , you're

50:06

learning , so so much . What was it like to be transported

50:09

? And we'll get this into Edinburgh at 1718

50:12

, however old you were , performing that co-writing

50:15

it 15 , 16, .

50:15

yeah , yeah , but yeah .

50:17

What was that like in terms of ? Did it give you confidence , wow

50:19

. Or did you have no time to reflect ? You just lived in the moment

50:21

.

50:22

You lived in the moment and you know there's the

50:24

arrogance of youth , but equally , you

50:27

know , I don't think I've ever felt

50:29

. One of the reasons a lot of people

50:32

become actors is because they feel like

50:34

I'm not good enough . I'm

50:37

not , you know .

50:38

Imposter syndrome .

50:39

Imposter syndrome , and when

50:41

I'm doing this and it was one

50:43

of the joys of being an actor is

50:46

that when I'm doing this I'm not being me , so

50:49

I don't have to think about it at all

50:51

. So you know , coming back to Nina , you know

50:53

I wish I knew how I would feel to be free and

50:55

I got to escape this stuff . I

50:58

got to escape me and what I feel

51:00

about me , you know , because if I hang

51:02

around here too long I'm going to have , you

51:04

know .

51:05

But even though , if you don't hang around that area

51:07

, if it's still not you once you leave that area

51:09

, you're still not free either , are you ?

51:11

No , but you know what it does , is

51:13

it ? If

51:15

you're , it's not pretending to be someone

51:17

else it's taking on another side of you , which

51:20

just drowns out that part . So

51:22

I don't have to think about the fact that

51:24

I haven't dealt with . You know

51:26

, at six years old , seeing

51:29

a man's head rolled

51:31

down the road , you know

51:33

and I have to deal with that . I don't have to

51:35

deal with the racism . You know

51:37

where's the bone in your nose . I don't

51:39

have to deal with the fact that , oh my

51:42

goodness , I'm feeling like I'm

51:44

attracted to this boy .

51:46

I'm attracted to this girl as well but I'm also

51:48

attracted to this boy .

51:50

You know , I don't have to deal with any of that stuff . I

51:53

, for these two hours

51:55

, or whatever , I escape Turn

51:57

table solid cycle .

51:59

You know , I get that totally and it

52:02

is a genuine place , it is a sanctuary . I

52:04

believe everybody needs one , whether it be a hobby

52:06

, a past sign , a passion . Having

52:09

a place where you can do that , or knowing that there's

52:11

a place where you can go is so

52:13

cathartic .

52:15

It's cathartic for a while . It's

52:17

cathartic for a while , and then you

52:19

, unfortunately you come down to earth and

52:21

the problem is it gets so exciting

52:24

that you want to stay in there . Oh

52:26

, and then you know

52:28

, once the show is over you

52:32

use yeah , the cliff drops off after a

52:34

couple of hours the natural

52:36

high goes , and then you

52:38

discover you know once

52:40

I talk about . Holland Park and

52:42

you discover , yeah , okay , a bit of marijuana here a

52:44

bit of this there a bit of whatever you know , and

52:47

it's because it's bohemian and

52:49

a lot of rich kids go here as well , as

52:51

well as the Shepherds Bush kids , as well as the kids

52:53

from Greenford and that was one of the

52:55

wonderful things about Holland Park . I mean you had

52:57

like 38 different languages that were spoken

53:00

there . You had from

53:02

the top to the bottom . You know , as I say , you had

53:04

Tony Benz kids

53:06

, you had Lauren Ashley , you had Mandy

53:09

Moon , you had kids from Shepherds

53:11

Bush . Green you had you know . So

53:13

all these mixtures of you

53:15

know you could be anything

53:17

or anyone you wanted to be .

53:21

I just all those places you're referencing Greenford

53:25

, labrador I when I was coming

53:27

back from America for a while and I skint , came back

53:29

and I was working in Lassimer

53:32

Rose near .

53:35

I know well , there's the youth club .

53:36

down there there's a youth club and there's also the sports center

53:38

where I was working with Noel Clark and

53:41

when he was getting into acting and wanted to be an actor

53:43

, I was like mentoring him and saying , look he

53:46

goes . Why are you a DJ ? How did you become ? Do that ? You

53:48

know ? Why did you go to America ? Why are you coming back

53:50

? What's his freedom coming from ? He's still on

53:52

his estate with his mum and I can

53:54

see a mirroring situation from him . Kids is about five

53:56

years younger than me and

53:58

I just did it . I went through my passion and nobody

54:00

can . If you've generally got

54:03

a passion for something , the energy you exude

54:05

with it and the I

54:07

don't know , you just driven . I said just do

54:09

it . Just do it right . He's

54:12

always . We used to work on the pool side , next to each

54:14

other . We're meant to be lifeguards , by the way . We're just talking

54:16

, we're not watching anybody . And I

54:18

said he's like performance on the side

54:20

of the pool side . How do all

54:22

these characters ? I encourage him to do it all the time

54:24

, because how does it feel ? Did you like doing it ? It made me feel good

54:26

. I encourage him to go to college after

54:28

that and to follow it . And I

54:30

said to him I come back from America . Don't make me find you not

54:33

doing that next stage . You know what I mean and

54:36

I'm glad he went on to do it . But

54:38

you've got to have that passion there for me .

54:40

You've got to have a passion and also to pass

54:42

it on . I mean , they got people like Ricky Beetle

54:44

Blitz , exactly , who also helped

54:46

.

54:47

Yeah yeah . You know

54:49

, yeah , those are the people who you go .

54:50

Yeah , the unsung heroes .

54:52

Only that area . For what ? When I say my virgin

54:54

proclivities , let's say away

54:56

from my area in Peckham

54:58

. This is the place . The West London was a place where I was

55:00

not known . So I could

55:02

reinvent myself In America , but

55:04

also in West London , because I

55:07

was not known there and I could be who

55:09

I wanted to be , who I was , 100%

55:11

. And that's just like I was out in London , because

55:13

I knew what it was like to be an American , be myself

55:15

, but also I wasn't American

55:18

either . So West London was like

55:20

, or that area was a good place yeah , you

55:23

know , a hybrid place for Americans Like you know what I mean , just

55:25

my friend Flourish , Exactly Flourish

55:28

. Well , let's go to the next song I don't

55:30

see what we're going to do ?

55:33

This is taking us right into , you

55:35

know , West 8 , in that Holland

55:37

Park area , and this is Aswad

55:40

and Aswad

55:42

. This is just one of the

55:44

songs from Live and Direct . You

55:47

know I have such fond memories of this . I , you

55:50

know , I play this in the car on tape . Yeah

55:53

, you know , on cassette tape , you know , because it's the only place

55:55

that I can play cassette tapes yeah yeah , yeah , yeah yeah

55:57

.

55:57

I don't know where else have you got a cassette player in your

55:59

car ? In my car ? Yeah , you know and a CD

56:02

.

56:02

Yeah , yeah , it's a very old car I love

56:04

it , I love it , but it's a very old

56:06

car . But you know , that's why I won't get rid of it . Yeah

56:08

, because I can play

56:10

. I can play cassettes in there , excellent , it

56:13

still works . But this track

56:15

, well

56:17

, all of the tracks , but I remember , you

56:19

know , carnival . OK

56:21

, Nothing Hill yes right and

56:25

Turning Into Meanwhile Gardens

56:27

. And you know , as

56:29

we're playing , drum is Eb Excellent

56:32

. This is a character from my school

56:34

. You know , who once saved me from being beaten

56:36

up , you know , by some six-formers

56:39

, you know .

56:39

Wow .

56:40

Because he knew my sister Monique

56:42

. And , yeah , I came into class

56:45

and you know he was slightly older , you know , and just threw

56:47

these kids off me . Yeah , yeah , yeah , nice

56:49

, come deal with me .

56:51

Yeah , yeah , yeah yeah yeah , yeah , you're not a touch-the-little

56:53

man , yeah , yeah . Yeah , that's nice , though I

56:55

still love them , and he was yeah , total love .

56:57

And then you know these Brinsley

57:00

Ford who , equally , you know you'd see

57:03

on the TV every so often doing the acting . Yeah , yeah

57:05

, yeah yeah . And you know

57:07

him drumming

57:09

others forming this band

57:11

and then being

57:13

at Carnival . I can't even

57:15

remember the year , I'm not sure whether it was 76 or

57:17

78 . Anyhow but this concert

57:21

which was and

57:23

I was there and

57:25

they were so brilliant , so

57:28

brilliant . They had a horn section that was just

57:30

like huge Listen

57:33

.

57:33

that is called Warrior Charge , that same horn section

57:35

. It's like heavy heavy

57:37

.

57:37

But this is African Children and

57:39

it's just the

57:43

whole album . Is I have to play the whole thing for

57:45

you ? I'm an album man so

57:47

. I play the whole thing from bottom . The concept

57:49

, the whole , yeah , but this track , african

57:52

Children , it just takes me right back to being in the sunshine

57:54

in mewell gardens

57:57

watching this

57:59

fantastic group with

58:02

the energy . Of the

58:04

only energy I can compare it with was

58:07

when I saw Bob .

58:07

Marley , I don't say Third World , but yeah

58:10

, bob Marley .

58:11

That's sort of Third World .

58:12

Bob Marley .

58:14

Live vibe , where they just take

58:17

you .

58:18

Let's go in there , let's drop it , go for it .

58:34

PLAYING IFU

58:37

MINרכal , stephen fractured . We're

58:42

living in a concrete situation

58:44

. Oh , we're one

58:46

way . Oh , we're one way . African

58:50

children we're

58:52

living in a concrete situation

58:54

. African children

58:57

, we

58:59

don't know where you're coming from . No

59:02

, african children

59:04

, right

59:07

here in our meanwhile garden . African

59:11

children All

59:17

of the nations are keeping at least

59:19

enemies Are

59:23

crying and applying to the council

59:26

for assistance . Their

59:31

tribulation is so sad

59:33

. Their environment

59:35

is so bad High

59:37

rise concrete , no backyard

59:40

For the children to play

59:42

. African children Are

59:46

living in a concrete situation . African

59:50

children , oh , we're one way . Oh

59:52

, we're one way . They don't know where

59:54

you're coming from . African

59:57

children , oh , we're one and

1:00:00

a one . African

1:00:04

children , all

1:00:11

the people are keeping at

1:00:13

least enemies . Bring

1:00:15

it down . A precast

1:00:18

on wall concrete cubicle

1:00:21

. Their

1:00:25

rent's increasing every other day . Sharks

1:00:29

and repairs and sests are never done

1:00:31

. Lit out of action on the

1:00:33

27th floor and when

1:00:35

the thing worked , don't you know it's smell now

1:00:37

. African children , how

1:00:52

many African children ? They're

1:00:55

lighter in the carnival

1:00:57

. How many

1:01:00

African children ? They

1:01:02

must know where we're coming from . Special

1:01:05

request to the whole of the country . Special

1:01:10

request to the party that's buzzing

1:01:12

. Special request to the

1:01:14

brick that's falling . Special request

1:01:17

to the labor growth that's buzzing . African

1:01:20

children In

1:01:23

a concrete situation . African

1:01:26

children . There

1:01:32

is a message for you .

1:01:33

There's reggae music for you , man . I

1:01:37

know you appreciate reggae music .

1:01:41

But equally we appreciate

1:01:43

what it does . That beat Right

1:01:53

. You know what I'm talking about .

1:01:56

If you can see how we're vibing in the studio , wacking

1:01:58

up our waste , boogieing

1:02:01

up , that's a vibe . That

1:02:03

is a vibe you can't help but dance , you can't . We're

1:02:06

just smiling , we're just seeing the world .

1:02:10

The whole album is just for

1:02:12

live album . This is just

1:02:14

so right on the mark . So

1:02:17

tight , so tight . And that's

1:02:19

the thing . These were young , young men , Raw

1:02:23

energy and the whole

1:02:26

of carnival going and

1:02:29

when they had groups playing . They

1:02:32

were like the tip top group . I

1:02:35

don't know whether you know Meanwhile Guns .

1:02:37

Of course . I know .

1:02:38

More Guns , like a sort of amphitheater

1:02:41

bold . And

1:02:44

it was just brilliant , that

1:02:46

crowd and everybody

1:02:49

, everybody , and it had that

1:02:51

atmosphere of . I

1:02:53

mean , I grew up around the area . So

1:02:56

you had on a Saturday you would

1:02:58

go down Porta Bilarode and

1:03:01

it was just like anything and everything .

1:03:04

Antiques , whatever it had .

1:03:06

But everybody was one and it

1:03:09

was just A different , different atmosphere

1:03:11

there .

1:03:12

I think like no carnival is such a success story In terms

1:03:14

of integrating people , cultures , music

1:03:16

. I met people from other sides

1:03:18

of the country you know white and black

1:03:20

people when I grew up and it was just so

1:03:22

nice where a common place , People who were prepared to come

1:03:24

to that Fear and cross

1:03:26

all those barriers Of social injustice

1:03:29

and all that division and

1:03:33

we could just go there and just chill . That

1:03:35

was my people .

1:03:36

And it was a total chill . It wasn't

1:03:38

like you know . I mean , I know it's always

1:03:41

overblown , you know , Because

1:03:43

we get nowadays , you know , oh , you're

1:03:45

carnival trouble you know Blown knives

1:03:47

and blah , blah , blah , Whatever else , and you

1:03:49

go . Yeah , but Hang on a second . How many people on the street here

1:03:51

?

1:03:52

Thank you , Alright

1:03:54

just nearly a million and a half people .

1:03:57

And less arrests than Grastonbury

1:03:59

when I was

1:04:01

coming up Sneaking

1:04:04

out at home and going to Shabine and stuff

1:04:06

around . Oh

1:04:08

the stuff .

1:04:09

I thought you were trying . Good Charles , I'm

1:04:11

a good Charles , I'm a good Charles .

1:04:12

But you know equally , around

1:04:15

that stage , you know , when you're

1:04:17

just discovering yourself , of course , and

1:04:19

you know , and you know stuff is Popping

1:04:22

off Just out there , yeah , yeah , yeah . You

1:04:24

know up blues and you know

1:04:26

is out there , and you know little Shabine

1:04:29

or House party and whatever . I

1:04:31

used to go down Goldblown Road , and

1:04:33

just off Goldblown Road there was like a basement place which

1:04:36

I went to a few times , where they would have a dance . You

1:04:39

know , and I'm young , not

1:04:42

too young , 17 , and

1:04:44

you know , were you scared . Yeah

1:04:46

, I was a bit scared , but it wasn't a danger

1:04:49

night , you know it wasn't a danger

1:04:51

night today , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah . You know you weren't

1:04:53

going to be nice couple .

1:04:55

No , I used to go to a grown up dance .

1:04:57

Yeah , it was a grown up dance , but it was also , you know , it was

1:04:59

also pleasant . You know you

1:05:02

have some middle aged . You know men , who

1:05:04

you know .

1:05:06

What I used to call them .

1:05:08

Michael Jackson trousers . I

1:05:10

mean they're in suit .

1:05:10

Yeah , yeah , yeah , but they're in trousers , just

1:05:13

to be sure . You know , what I say . It

1:05:15

might not have been their suit .

1:05:16

Yeah , yeah , yeah but you know , and

1:05:18

yeah , you had . It

1:05:21

was just a time of you

1:05:23

together . You enjoyed yourself . You were also

1:05:26

here in tunes you wouldn't

1:05:28

hear anywhere else , you know

1:05:30

, Just being played freely . Yeah , and

1:05:32

yeah because I generally snuck out . I

1:05:35

would also sneak , you know , back Before

1:05:37

it's too late . Yeah nice , you

1:05:41

know , one of the pleasures of having a I

1:05:44

say pleasure , One of the things of

1:05:46

having a single mom Is

1:05:49

that they have to work hard you know , and

1:05:51

sometimes they're in two , three jobs , working

1:05:54

on a shift In the company of the Chapters Busch , and you know and

1:05:56

you all learn to cook

1:05:58

, because that was you know

1:06:00

for us , of course . Everybody had to take

1:06:02

their turns and whatever . And you learn through

1:06:05

your mistakes . Generally , everybody still has to eat it Because

1:06:07

they have food to go around twice . So you are

1:06:09

, yeah , exactly so you learn all that stuff . But you also learn you

1:06:11

know when I can

1:06:13

sneak out from then to then and I can be back

1:06:15

before 12 , 13 .

1:06:17

Yeah , yeah , yeah , and you know I've had a good

1:06:19

night .

1:06:22

I want to touch on something which may not be a parallel . You

1:06:25

did that drama and you had to finish right in that play .

1:06:27

Yeah .

1:06:28

We needed jellyfish and you were playing that teacher . What

1:06:30

was the role ? Of a teacher Trying

1:06:32

to inspire another pupil . Did you get reminiscent

1:06:35

of how you felt as a pupil then ?

1:06:38

All based on Tony . Yeah , yeah , yeah , all

1:06:40

based on Tony . As

1:06:42

much as possible , because

1:06:45

people like Tony , people like Anna

1:06:48

Shea , who I also , you know , in my

1:06:50

Just before I

1:06:53

mean , the waiting list was so long for Anna Shea's and

1:06:57

I was at four youth theatres at the time

1:06:59

by this time , and

1:07:01

so I used to go along . When I finally

1:07:03

got in , when the waiting list , you

1:07:05

know , and it was only like Nine

1:07:09

months before I went off to drama school , but

1:07:12

, yeah , it was so important those

1:07:14

people , you know , they

1:07:17

would spot stuff in you . They

1:07:19

would say this is possible , they would

1:07:21

open up the world to you . They would , you know , but

1:07:24

they were also disciplined . They

1:07:26

would also say , yeah , but you can't mess around . This is serious stuff

1:07:28

. This is the life stuff . This

1:07:31

is the stuff which will carry you through

1:07:33

those moments . This is the stuff

1:07:35

which will it

1:07:38

will allow you to shed those tears but

1:07:40

also to say , yeah , but I'm still going to carry

1:07:42

on . I'm still going to . You know , Get

1:07:44

on with life and do the stuff that I need to do .

1:07:47

Sure , I was telling me that when

1:07:49

you train as an actor You've got to get into the minds

1:07:51

of the characters so you maybe get an

1:07:54

early idea Into psychological

1:07:57

conditions so you can recognise it in other people . But

1:08:00

you also have to do it so you can experience it and replicate

1:08:02

that on screen or on stage . That's

1:08:05

quite an injection into People

1:08:08

, conditions and stuff like that .

1:08:10

Is that advantageous ? It can

1:08:12

be . It can be if you , if

1:08:16

you can stand outside it and

1:08:19

not become it . Because

1:08:21

Two pack and juice Is what

1:08:23

I'll say in terms of that how you can end up being that character that

1:08:25

you're comfortable with , and yeah

1:08:28

, you know , you've got to

1:08:30

realise that I'm dipping

1:08:32

into somebody's life here and it could

1:08:34

be a part of my life , because it always can be . It's

1:08:37

always a section of you , it's always a twist

1:08:41

of fate and I may have gone that way and

1:08:45

it's about being true to that . But to

1:08:49

become it , we're

1:08:51

magpies . We take the shiny bits

1:08:53

. Yes , yes great analogy

1:08:55

. Yeah , we

1:08:57

take the shiny bits and

1:08:59

you know You've got to have

1:09:01

an understanding Of what's underneath those shiny bits

1:09:04

, but if you get right into

1:09:06

it you can drown in there , you

1:09:08

know , and that's not the

1:09:11

sea is beautiful and it reflects the sun . But

1:09:13

if you go down for long enough , you

1:09:15

will drown .

1:09:16

Performative careers DJing , acting You've

1:09:18

got to be careful of how you can get A

1:09:22

character or lifestyle or something like that . You've

1:09:25

got to really be careful , Not the hard way , but

1:09:27

I saw a lot of people who

1:09:29

either got successfully too quick or they

1:09:32

just lost a soul In what they were

1:09:34

doing and became a lifestyle .

1:09:36

There's a reason why Therapist , psychologist

1:09:38

counsellors , Always have to have a counsellor

1:09:41

.

1:09:42

This isn't you . You've got to take care

1:09:45

of this stuff , because

1:09:48

otherwise you'll get drawn in .

1:09:50

It always looks shiny

1:09:52

, exactly .

1:09:54

So drama school so we talked about

1:09:57

your voice already . Was that finishing

1:10:00

school for you , or did you

1:10:02

have quite a received pronunciation From

1:10:04

the get go ?

1:10:04

I had quite a received pronunciation , because

1:10:08

I had been basically to what

1:10:11

was even at that very early

1:10:13

stage , to what was essentially

1:10:16

a British Colonial

1:10:20

public school Right In Nigeria

1:10:22

. Yeah , yeah , you know , and

1:10:25

so , yeah , part of that was there . Yeah

1:10:28

, and

1:10:30

one

1:10:33

of the things that Coming

1:10:36

here early on

1:10:38

and quickly

1:10:41

realising that I

1:10:44

could become a bit of a comedian

1:10:46

, so , and that's protection

1:10:49

. Yes , of course you know , because , especially

1:10:52

when you're in an area where there

1:10:54

are many , many different nationalities

1:10:56

and personalities and you

1:10:58

know and levels

1:11:01

of living yeah

1:11:03

, I went across them all , so I had

1:11:05

friends in all structures .

1:11:07

So I can't agree with you and I disagree with you . I

1:11:10

see what I mean by that . People say that I'm a comedian

1:11:12

because man can speak like he's from

1:11:14

Rhodesdale . Yeah , one could be erudite and speak like

1:11:16

this yeah , and of course , I could speak like that as well . Yeah

1:11:18

, but I'm speaking to . Yeah , yeah , and

1:11:21

that's not me being not just like I have free levels of cultural

1:11:23

influences that I've absorbed , but it

1:11:25

doesn't mean that I'm not . I haven't chosen one , I just thought

1:11:28

I could be one of those three because it is

1:11:30

part of my journey .

1:11:31

They're all part of me . Exactly , they're all part

1:11:33

of me . But you know you choose where

1:11:35

you land the stuff and

1:11:37

you choose it because you

1:11:40

know . I need to feel safe you

1:11:42

know you know , and I

1:11:44

think , if you've come from

1:11:46

a war situation , yeah . You

1:11:49

often don't feel safe . I'll speak to

1:11:51

them , no matter how far you get away from stuff .

1:11:53

I'll speak to a friend like this and look at it . Conversely

1:11:55

as well , went to public school , yeah

1:11:58

, yeah , whitejack Went to public school

1:12:00

and very well spoken , but

1:12:02

he went into the . He chose the industry of going into , like fashion

1:12:04

and design , which is not traditionally a

1:12:07

role that a person's accent should come from , right

1:12:10

, because that accent usually comes with automatic

1:12:12

privilege or old money , et cetera

1:12:14

, et cetera . So he found it hard to be a

1:12:17

genuine person with that , but he can't share that accent

1:12:19

. He's got no other accent to refer to . Yeah .

1:12:21

So where he was , as I quote unquote , this advantage was it

1:12:25

took longer to be convincing because he didn't

1:12:27

have any chameleon aspects to adjust

1:12:29

to to make sense , I think yeah

1:12:31

, I totally agree with that , but I

1:12:34

think the thing is that one

1:12:36

of the things that you referred to earlier I

1:12:39

don't know whether it was before we started taping

1:12:41

or not but the fact that

1:12:44

a lot of people recognize me by my voice

1:12:46

is that , no

1:12:48

matter which accent I'm in , the

1:12:51

actual timbre of my voice yes

1:12:53

, yes . Remains the

1:12:55

same . Yes , so

1:12:58

so you can . Generally

1:13:01

it is me , but a different

1:13:04

me . So I'm not trying to hide me , I'm

1:13:07

just giving you a different part of me , exactly . So

1:13:11

that's , yeah . I mean it

1:13:13

sort of works out that you're

1:13:15

just getting this part of me because I got used

1:13:17

to going ah , okay

1:13:19

, so we are here now . Yeah , yeah

1:13:22

, exactly so we are in this role or we're

1:13:24

in this role or we're in that

1:13:26

role and

1:13:29

actually we're in this role and

1:13:32

that's lovely .

1:13:34

I love the way he just describes me , you

1:13:36

know .

1:13:36

I used to have , I used

1:13:38

to do an answer phone thing

1:13:42

which went across various

1:13:44

accents , you know so you'd start off

1:13:46

in one and then you'd go to another , and

1:13:49

you know so I'm afraid . Cyril

1:13:51

Henry isn't here . If

1:13:54

you'd like to leave a message , you know then

1:13:57

well , he will get back to you as soon as you

1:13:59

can , because you know

1:14:01

and you just go across the board .

1:14:04

I love that , I love that .

1:14:05

So it's a form of protection

1:14:08

. It is , it's a form of protection .

1:14:09

However , though I think , conversely I mean , I was asking

1:14:11

this in another question but do you believe that having

1:14:14

that multiplicity of accents and cultural

1:14:16

references that actually contributed to

1:14:18

your sustained career and your diverse portfolio

1:14:20

, would you think that opened you up to ? Because

1:14:23

not all actors can have that . They can be good

1:14:25

actors but they don't have the wherewithal

1:14:27

or , you know , the tool set

1:14:30

to have that diverse . Well , I

1:14:32

think .

1:14:32

I think . I think

1:14:35

the thing is that it's about having fun . Thank

1:14:37

you . It's about having fun Exactly

1:14:39

. And you know I

1:14:42

don't want to let this out here because they may find out

1:14:44

. I'm still having fun , you

1:14:46

know , and so I keep getting away with

1:14:48

it because actually , some of the best actors

1:14:50

in the world and I've long maintained this are kids in the playground

1:14:53

. So if you're playing , you know you

1:14:56

know Cowboys and stuff

1:14:59

bang bang you know , or

1:15:01

police and thieves , or

1:15:04

doctors and nurses , or whatever you know

1:15:06

, at that moment of bang bang , you're

1:15:08

dead . You watch a kid

1:15:10

in a playground , you know a primary

1:15:13

school kid fall and

1:15:15

they believe every single second of it . Of

1:15:17

course , the moment you hit the floor , then I'm up again and I'm

1:15:19

playing again . You know , and I'm

1:15:21

having fun and I'm getting up to the next one you know , and

1:15:24

that is , you know , you

1:15:26

watch the seriousness at

1:15:28

which , even when you are playing doctors and nurses

1:15:31

, you're really just finding out what's below that

1:15:33

portion of

1:15:35

the body , the seriousness

1:15:37

Of course you know . It's like a forensic scientist

1:15:40

, you know , so you can take that stuff oh yes , man

1:15:42

.

1:15:42

CIS . Yeah , because you're also

1:15:45

quite shocked we don't even know what to find underneath

1:15:47

. Of course , I'm going to talk

1:15:49

about Queen Charlotte , right ? I

1:15:51

know you had fun doing that I know you

1:15:53

had fun doing that , right Because . I

1:15:55

know , it's just and that's why I think

1:15:57

it came out your energy and your zest

1:16:00

in that . I felt that , yeah , watching

1:16:03

it recently in part of my homework , I could feel that

1:16:05

energy in you . Doing that , either

1:16:07

you're at peace with where you are in your

1:16:09

life or in yourself , or you're having

1:16:11

fun with the art now and you're

1:16:13

in that space and that's what I picked up on , that energy in

1:16:15

that character .

1:16:16

Well , you've got to go . You know how can I get

1:16:18

to that point , yes , which

1:16:22

is just so much fun in exploring

1:16:24

this character and keeping him just

1:16:27

on the edge , a lot of people you know . Well , actually

1:16:29

not a lot of people , a couple of people said oh

1:16:31

, my God it was way over the top , and you know right . And

1:16:33

then you go yeah , but how do

1:16:36

you do that , whilst

1:16:38

actually underneath this all , if

1:16:41

you strip away the comedy , yeah

1:16:44

, there's a man who's extremely hurt

1:16:46

, you know , who doesn't

1:16:48

ever feel that he's getting his position in life

1:16:50

, but doesn't realize that at the same time

1:16:53

, he's kicking those which

1:16:55

he sees is below him , including his wife

1:16:57

. And if you

1:16:59

strip it down , you might just

1:17:01

say , okay , ms Arjun is rapist , you

1:17:03

know underneath it . But

1:17:06

you've got to get to that point where he's lying

1:17:08

in the bed and he says they'll never give me what I want

1:17:10

you know what I deserve , you

1:17:13

know , and

1:17:15

it's about hitting those moments and yet

1:17:17

being able to be totally

1:17:19

blind to the fact that you've just dismissed

1:17:21

a whole human being's life , or

1:17:24

the fact that they're helping you . You know , and

1:17:27

that's such a lovely position to be in

1:17:29

to go , I'm gonna have fun with this character

1:17:32

.

1:17:32

Exactly . But I can see , yes

1:17:35

, you're acting and I've always said

1:17:37

that to you like well , but I know a creative person

1:17:39

when they've got a good balance of having

1:17:42

fun and acting and being professional . But I've

1:17:44

got that extra like Zing is spiciness

1:17:47

, that performance . I was like I know where you

1:17:49

are , not where you are , but I've been there

1:17:51

or I'm doing the gig , where I'm

1:17:53

enjoying what I do and I'm

1:17:55

just doing it .

1:17:57

I've never played a character I didn't like , and some

1:17:59

of them are horrendous people who I would not want

1:18:01

to spend a moment with yeah yeah

1:18:03

.

1:18:05

I'm afraid we have to leave it there . That's the end of part

1:18:07

one of my conversation with Cyril Noury . Please

1:18:09

hit the notification buttons , like and subscribe

1:18:11

for the next episode , part two . I'm

1:18:13

looking forward to sharing that with you . In the meantime

1:18:16

, you've been listening to Mr Pierre on Foot545

1:18:18

. Look after yourselves , peace .