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What's up. Good afternoon, Moleger. This is esp In fifteen thirty. Thank you for listening. Hopefully you're having a terrific Tuesday afternoon. We're loaded today, Red's good shut out. Last night, Hunter Green pitched. Okay, okay, the Reds have a starting line up to town tonight. I don't know that most of us would characterize it as okay. We'll get to that in a bit, but first, our friend Paul Dayner Junior is here. He is very busy. The Bengals are on the clock on Thursday night, round one of the draft, and Paul is covering it for the Athletic. He's got the Growl of podcast. The big mega mock draft was done yesterday. They've got a live podcast coming up a week from tonight, which we're going to talk about. He's got his full seven round mock draft. We have a lot to discuss. Yeah, well, because we finally made it. It's like I envy the fans who get to just not really pay attention and then show up draft. We can be like, so, what's going on? So we're sort of saying the same things but louder, and you also reach the point where like everything comes first full circle where when we first started talking about the draft when the Bengals season ended, and it was like, well, you gotta look at these tackles. That Latham guy seems like he would fit or or you know, I guess maybe it's gonna be Mimes or whoever you're talking about. And we talked ourselves in eighteen different directions since then, and now we're back and we're like, yeah, it's probably one of those. So it's how the process works. Yeah, you gotta, but you gotta, you know, you gotta turn over every rock and make sure we're talking about every possible topic, and lord knows we did that. But I am this is the exciting part. Right. The last couple of weeks are hard because you're just not quite there. But now that it's right here and we're deep in it every you know, you're you can really start to enjoy it and embrace it. Well, you know, I think back to four years ago the Joe Burrow Draft, which you know, the second part of the process, play it out against the pandemic. But we joked on this show like we have some we have certain boxes we have to check. Okay, so one of the boxes is, well, should they trade the pick? Right, we know they're not gonna and we want them to take Joe Burrow, but we we have to we have to check that box. And then the other box would be like, are we sure it's not Tua, Are we sure it's not justin Herbert? Are we sure it's not Chase young And we spent especially once the pandemic got here, and we just had like large swaths of time and nothing else really going on, so we had to do the obligatory like hours of well, you know, maybe maybe it makes sense to draft Chase Younger. Wow. I still to this day can't believe that it was a part of the program. I remember it had to be yes, So I get it. There are certain boxes that you just have to check. And then at the end of it all, we just kind of circled back to Okay, they're taking Burrow and it's gonna be awesome. I was listening to Dan Patrick the other day and Mike Florio was on the are still suggesting that the Bengals should have traded out of number one to the Dolphins? Say, yeah, they just got lucky that that Burrow thing worked out. You can still argue should have probably traded with Miami. He's like, May, we're still not letting that go unbelievable. Still there still still out there. All right, before we get into some draft nuts and bolts, let's talk about today's news. Yes, singles, do Jake Browning a solid? Yeah? I mean you earned it right, Yes, he was kind of We talked about how he was just stuck. Yeah, because he's the exclusive rights free agent. He has exclusive rights, should be called no rights free agent. You're just this is the if they want to pay you, this is what you're gonna make. And he earned more than that. And so yeah, they do a ma solid and they give themselves security there two years mat that's where it was gonna end up anyway with him, And so I mean, how do you not love their quarterback room? Right now? On top of you have Burrow, So you know you have an elite guy at number one, but you have somebody behind him that fits well, that has proven himself. So something happens, maybe it won't be like last year, and you're scared to death to send him out there to play against the Rams and said, send a hobble Joe Burrow out there in week three because you're worried that this his backup can't win you a game. Now, you know, everybody believes and we talked about this with Brandon Allen in the beginning was when he had a couple of really good games. As long as the people around him on offense believe that he can go win you a game. And it's not a feeling of dread when you take the field. You need that that is important. That's the feeling you want. You're not necessarily you want. You want whatever whoever your backup quarterback comes from, he comes from. You just want the feeling and the rest of the players when they go out there. Even though we have our starter today, we got a chance. Jake Browning gave you that. He's every everybody loves him. This was that was kind of a good, any uneasy, no brainer and easy thing to do. You can function and do even more than just function with Jake Browning. It's it's it's the greatest insurance. Paul. Ever, here's a guy that has had some success in our system, feels like he's going to be prepared. Do I want him to play six seven, eight games? No? But I always look at the backup quarterback to the simple lens of Joe, go's in a concussion protocol and the other guy's got to play a half and it's seventeen all and you got to figure out a way to win the game. Can he do that for you? The answer is yes. Yeah, it's a great feeling to have Joe likes him. He has proven he will be ready and be a gamer at all times. I mean that's kind of just his mentality that we learned about last year. So yeah, I think everything everything that you let that you look for in a backup quarterback, Jake Browning has and they do him a little bit a solid by giv him a little extra money and security and he earned that. Uh. They also bring back Logan woods Yeah, let's go. So if you would have said to me on the Saturday night of the twenty eighteen draft, the last draft of the Marvin Lewis regime, that there would be uh free active players in the NFL from that draft, I would have thought, Okay, well, Billy Price is a chance to you know, stick right, and Jesse Bates and then Sam Hubbard okay, and then who else Logan wood Side. Yes, if you would have told me that when it was during it was either OTAs or camp he got popped. No, it was around that time when they just had him out there as like scout team safety and he had chains around his neck. I was like, well, that doesn't bode well for his NFL future, But yet he matured here and here he is. He's he's been collecting checks in the NFL. Good for Logan wood Side. Anybody should hope to have his NFL career at this point. Amazing. Yeah, he's still playing in the NFL in twenty twenty four, outlasted Billy Price. He played in a game last year for the Atlanta Falcons. Good for him, man, good for Logan Woodside. That's that's one of the See that's the part of the draft that I like. I like it when yeah, sort of big Day three guy, well not really a big Day three guy, but I like when Logan Woodside gott in a game for the Falcons last year. I don't know how I found that out, but I said, is that the same guy from Toledo the Bengals drafted? And then it was like, yes, wait a minute, he's still playing football in the NFL. Amazing and getting checks and gotten a game. Yes, he's back it's great. It's great. What a wonderful world. Of the many things that you take part in. I enjoy the AFC North whip around, you do? I do? I like the whip around because it's a chance to kind of check in with what's happening with the other teams in the AFC North for those who don't know, and you should because you should be subscribing to a Paul's working in the Athletic. But Paul and the other three beat writers who cover AFC North teams will tackle, you know, various topics throughout the course of the week. There's one of them I wanted to talk about with you, all right, what's that? So you were asked to outline. You and the other three guys were as to outline best and worst case scenarios. Best and worst case scenarios for the BENGALSS case for the Bengals, as you documented, was best case would be at least four quarterbacks, multiple corners, a surprise receiver, and a couple of edge rushers come off in front of them, leaving at least one of Latham JC Latham tell Esfuaga Fuatano or Byron Murphy the second to pick that's best case. Yeah, I think so that's best case. Yeah, guys at the positions that they want most, that fit them. Yeah, if best case ends up being reality, who among those four guys would they pick. I have planted my flag on Byron Murphy for a long time now. H I wrote a whole story how he's basically my guy. Like, I don't claim that. I just think he can have the most effect on this team winning of anybody, just because that position is so rare, the value is so high. It's such a scarcity there that to me, that would be the direction that I would go. And I would start trying to figure out tackle because you do have Trent Brown and is he gonna play a full season? I mean, you certainly aren't counting on that. But like I, they have found answers at tackle, and you can spend a second or third round pick and say, hey, by week whatever, if an injury occurs, this guy could be ready. You know, a second round pick could be ready to come in and play. That's just that. If you're talking about the trade off on that, what you're giving up is you could have an elite three technique, which is something the entire league is dying to find So that to me would be my answer on that, what will they do? They know what they would do. I mean, I've heard, we've heard a lot of talk about how they are in these meetings now and they're ongoing. And if you don't believe that stacking the board across positions with things like the question you just asked, are what they've been sitting around over the last week, making sure that everyone's comfortable with and your creat That's what's happening. So what will they do? We'll find out if that happens. I I just think I think what they have needed and wanted is there in Murphy potentially if he was there. I don't think he will be there. But I think one of the tackles, you know, you're you're happy with all your with all of them, all right. I want to stay on the position that Byron Murphy, the place Byron Murphy plays Byron Murphy, the plays what Byron Murphy? The second place we'll do that this is live radio. Yeah, so when I make mistakes there it is you just do it? Makes you human? Sure? That's it? Yes? Makes me human? Yes? Accessible? Accessible? Yes? Sure. Paul Danner Juniors here the Athletic dot Com, The Growler Podcast, and I want to talk about your live podcast one week from tonight. We'll get to that when we come back. He is here until four o'clock. We are here till six on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station. It's three twenty. This is ESPN fifteen thirty. Moegger, Paul Danner Juniors, here at the Athletic dot Com, The Growler Podcast, the Mega Mock Draft Special which Paul Jmore, Butch Hobson, James Rapine Mock Draft. Yeah, I will admit to you that I am midway through. That's good. I mean, you know it gets only gets better. Yeah, you go, It's it's fun. Speaking of the podcast, love that exercise. Yeah, speaking of the podcast, you have a live post draft podcast, yeah, from tonight. I am so excited about this. So we've partnered with uh at MGM Sportsbook and Nation Kitchen at the Banks down there, which if you have you've if you've been to a Reds game, you've seen it's right down right down there across from JVP. The space is awesome, it's perfect for what we wanted to do, and and they've just been a great partner to be in with here and so we're gonna be down there seven o'clock Tuesday, April thirtieth. It's Bengals College Scouting director Mike Potts, who spoke today the Press convers is gonna be there to when we'll break down all the picks we've done. I've done this every year. It's one of my favorite things that we are able to do because these guys have a year's worth of insight and stories and path to every pick. There's so much nuance to everything to really unpack, and Mike is the perfect person to do. And we'll invite a bunch of other scouts who have hopped on with us in the past and go down there. We'll talk through that well food and drinks. Of course, Nation just crushes if they have so much good food and you come down listen, dude, we'll do draft talk and then of course we'll myself and Jay and March will be down there. We'll be hanging out having drinks afterwards talking If you guys want to catch anybody want to catch up, then So seven o'clock next Tuesday, Mike Potts will be our guest, but we'll do a full live growler down there. This will be fun because Tuesday, right seven o'clock your podcast, Mark will be there. Yeah, I'm gonna come down. It's also game five if necessary, Nick Sixers. Yeah. Mark's a big Knicks fan. Yeah, I'm a big Knicks. We'll get you guys a screen I think we can get you guys a screen over. So yeah, I mean, it could be fun. It could be very fun. I'm just saying it could be big. Put them away if necessary, if necessary necessary, probably won't, probably won't be. If necessary, it'll be over. But no, it's gonna be great. So Eric, come on down seven o'clock a week from tonight. I listened to Zach Taylor yesterday and I listened to Mike Potts. Mike Potts understandably was not nearly as revealing as he will be when he joins you. But I did enjoy listening to Zach a little bit yesterday, just talking about the process because me as I'm into the draft and I'm into who they take, but I'm really I think it'd just be so cool to really be pulled back into the room to just watch how Draft Night itself plays out. And I thought, Zach, maybe a little bit more so than he has been since he arrived. Was kind of interesting just talking about how the sausage is made during the draft. Yeah, I mean, I think it's fascinating because I mean, teams do do things differently, and the Bengals are built a little bit differently, but you know they when you when you get into that room, it's mostly done. There's especially on Thursday night, there's really I think there's this idea that there's action. It's incredibly Thursday Night's incredibly boring in there because if there's anything that they have done and put to bed, it's the order of what's going to happen in round one, like one through eighteen, and really the same for up to forty. You get way more action on day two because you get a lot more trades are involved a whole day. Teams have recalibrated their boards and things have changed, but Day one has been so structured. You know where you would trade to, you know who you would talk to. You probably have things set in place. If you're gonna move, you know who you're gonna take, and what that order is. If it gets to that, so it becomes almost like, Okay, get this out of the way I would want to be in there on Day two. That is the most action pack day. Everybody has needs that they're trying to fill, things that they're reacting to. Everybody's trying to move. That to me is the day that is the ultimate where you know, that's where you win and loose in this league is accomplishing your goals with those Friday picks. And I think that will be how this draft will absolutely be judged for the Bengals this year, just because of the way they're set up, the extra pick, their ability to move up and down if they want to, and their needs that they have at very important positions. I think that is the most fascinating day and we'll see how they handle it. We talked about Byron Murphy and what they would do if he's there at eighteen and sign me up for taking him fills an obvious need. Why don't I feel very good about what they could do a defensive tackle later in the draft if he's not there, Well, because there isn't any I mean there's not. There's not a ton of players that no one's really gonna bring you that that's why those guys go there. Yeah, have we talked so much about Byron Murphy that we make the other guys seem like they just totally suck. No, I don't think they any I don't think it do so, I think it's close. I don't know that he is at the top of their board. I mean, I'm just a lot of people like Newton More. Yeah, some people like and that's fine. I just you know, that's great. I mean you can get He's he will bring you all the pass rush you want to. I mean, that's that's what you're looking for. There's not as much of the other stuff there as Murphy gives you a little more versatility, a little more against the run, but you know, pass rushing from inside is as valuable as it gets. So I I think you can accomplish. They have put themselves into a position a little bit where yeah, you're not you're not gonna get what you want after that, there's because there's that's where those guys go. I think they can piece it together after that. I think there's plenty of guys that that could come in here, but there's just not a lot of history in this league of players coming from. Where the Bengals will pick in round two around three and coming in and having big time impact, and they kind of need some impacts they put They put themselves in this spot, and that's why that feeling exist. My question was not so much about the lack of talent, for lack of a better way of putting it. After Byron Murphy, it's the position the Bengals are in and what they've done to themselves specifically at that spot. Yeah, I think they would. You don't ever want to feel like you have an obvious need, and I think that they've done some certainly too. It doesn't feel that way. I mean with Rankins and Hilly, they need bodies, but it doesn't feel like they are just a disaster there. But they need pieces. I mean, they need more in there, and they need it for this year and they need it for the future. You don't ever want to have even that feeling. But that doesn't mean, you know, there's plenty of players that they could sit here and grab Chris Jenkins at forty nine and everyone will by the time they pick and the fourth round, everyone will already be sold that he's the answer and that was the best thing that could have happened. Yeah, or any number of these guys that do have potential that you would take in the second round, and they're part of a rotation and you can find a way to make it work, and then they'll take another one on day three that can come in and be the new Josh Tupo and you can see how it all fits together. Is that gonna be enough to slow down Travis Henry or I'm sorry, Derek Henry. Derek Travis Henry school reference like that, Dereck Henry, Sure job. I think I mean, I don't think you have Baltimore this overall running game. Yeah, okay, I mean I maybe I think you don't have You don't have to have DJ reader to stop the run. You know, you can find other ways to do it. Lou Anumo will be in charge of scheming that up. They had DJ reader last year and they didn't stop the run very well. I don't disagree with that. I think that's partially on lou Ana Rumo's lap. Is you got to figure out how to do this? Is there a new way that you've got to construct it? What is that run fits always comes back to run fits? Isn't it run fit practice? Can we put you You've often talked about jobs that you would like to hold at the Bengals. Could we make you like director of run fits and just have you run drills helping everyone with their run fits? Like is that? Can I make this? Can we find a way to produce this? Maybe? But I just I have you know, we were talking about like nightmare scenarios. Mine is we get to like five or six weeks in and they're getting beaten up upfront and teams are running up and down against them, and I gotta listen to analysts talk about run fits. Yeah, it's coming. Whenever I'm hearing somebody talk about run fits, First of all, I get really bored very quickly. Second, nobody ever talks about run fits when they're stopping the run, right, not a lot of runfit columns being written when they're stopping the run. Yeah. I haven't gotten a whole lot of clicks on my gap discipline story, you know. So I if we get to October and you and I are talking about run fits, I'm gonna go back to the draft in the entire offseason and Goo could have fixed it. To have fixed it, no, I I've said it a bunch of time. I think it's the one criticism of how free agency unfolded with them is that they didn't have one more guy in there that feels solid, disserviceable right to kind of be in that mix. And and we'll see if they can find a way to get this in this draft. But I mean, that's what's in front of them. That's why it's important. That's why day two is important. If they don't get that on day one, is they got a pinpoint that and find it all right, I want to explore a long shot possibility and your individual nightmare scenario. Okay, Plus i'd like your thoughts on Bill Tobin. Yeah, we'll do three thirty Paul Danner Junior. By the way, Taren, we're trying to have the perfect show today, two for two, hitting the brake on time. Um the way, he's Paul Danner Junior. We're aiming for a perfect show today. It can happen, No, it can't. This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station Sincy three sixty with Tony Pike. If we want to move on dot to keep going and Boston Elmore, I think you should continue. Let me keep going there Sincy three sixty Tomorrow which twelve News on ESPN fifteen thirty. Cincinnati's espnes are a service of Kelsey Chevrolet, Home of lifetime powertrain protection and guaranteed credit approval from their family to yours for life, kelseychev dot Com. Game two of four with the Phillies tonight at GAVP. Red's trying to bounce back after getting shut out in two hit last night. Andrew Abbott, Well, I'll get the ball for Cincinnati, Paul in the quick Hits segment that I do with Tony and Austin, I was asked if I would get your thoughts on tonight's Red starting lineup. All right, let's go. Stu Fairchild leading off. Well, that's not a great start. Spencer Steers and left. Stevenson is catching Candelario's playing third, batting fourth, ces at first, Ellie is betting sixth again playing short stop. Nick Martini providing protection for Ellie in the seven hole. Santiago Espinal, who might be the worst offensive player the Reds have ever had, Well, come on playing second base. I mean, that's how bad he is playing. And he'll get four hits tonight playing second base and betting eighth. And then Will Benson in right field, batting ninth you know, wasn't Stevenson just hitting ninth like a week ago? Weren't we? I mean I feel like, yes, and now we've moved to this he was you read him third there? Correct? Yes, Yeah, we just it's fine. I don't mind Matt Messmith Ellie. Here's the thing, like it's like it's like, okay, don't touch anything. It's working, okay, Like nobody nobody getting near him, don't look at him, don't change the spot in the buying order like it's working. Just let it keep going. So I feel like that's I'm okay with that with just leave him there. You could put somebody a little bit better behind him. I get it, but I don't. I don't the rest of it though. We're trying too hard, aren't we. Yes. I go back to one of the one of the best and then eventually worse things about Dusty Baker was he really believed in guys feeling comfortable every day coming in, knowing exactly where that was going to be and where they were gonna hit. Yes, and gave people long runs of doing the exact same thing in the exact same spot every single day off, sometimes to his detriment. Later in the season, but players really appreciated that. Players really like they feel comfortable coming to the ballpark every day. It means something. I think today's player is very much used to moving all around more so, much more so. Yeah, and so that's not as big a deal as maybe it was in the time that we're talking about. But I don't think it's under I still think it's a deal. I still think it's a thing where you do want to be leaning into comfort more often. I'm not a manager, I'm not here too. I think eventually you either got players that can hitter you don't. It doesn't really make that big of a difference. But I do like comfort when possible, and there is always so much movement. The one thing I remember most about Dusty Baker's lineups, it didn't matter who it was. The center fielder was batting lead off. Drew Stubs, Drew Stubbs, Willie Taveres, Corey Patterson shouldn't suit Choo. I mean, it just it did not matter, didn't matter the center Jerry Harriston, the center fielder was hitting lead off. Yeah, you think he's always just had the position written down and it just didn't really matter. Yeah, that's great. I love that idea. Yeah, I could go down Old Red's lineup wormholes with you. But the drafts in two days. Is there any scenario where the Bengals draft a wide receiver in round one? Yeah, a trade back? I think if you traded back, if they, if they, if you know, something happens and the guys they like, and you're sitting there looking at the corners. I was talking with this somebody today. You know, the Eagles are known for moving up in round one, and Howie Roseman that's just kind of hit his thing, right, they need corners. If one of those corners is sitting there because the round tackles happened, I could I could see him calling the Bengals about moving You move back to twenty two. Okay, now you're thinking a different You probably are hoping to get somebody, but maybe that person doesn't get to you. Move back one more time. Now the receivers are in play. Now you're talking about a lot of guys, whether you're talking about Lad McConkie or Ady Mitchell or whoever you like. I think McConkie would be a dream fit for them. That conversation only happens then I don't see any of the other receivers being even tempting for them at eighteen. I just don't see. I don't believe that to be the case. But I think if you move back and you gained a bunch of picks as part of the payoff there, you could make a real argument for a receiver at that point. But I think that's the only scenario, and that's obviously slim. Is your personal nightmare scenario on Thursday night, brock Bauers being there at eighteen. No, No, I don't. I don't care. I'm not. I don't know why I'm painted as this, Like Hugh Anti, he may be fine. I just don't believe that that's the direction that you should go with a first round pick. No matter, just seen enough of this. You're just trying to set me up to do another Bowers rant. I am because do we need? Can't you just play the last ones? Because it's not to me. It's it's not about Bowers. It's about not It's about what you're going to have to put up with if Bowers is there and they don't take him, and then he goes to Pittsburgh, yes or wherever? Correct, Pittsburgh obviously nine catches against the bank, he's he's Sam Laporta, and we end up doing this whole thing again. I get it. Yeah, that's fine. I don't. I don't. I'm I'm willing to eat that because there's also a chance he'll be any of the other tight ends that have been drafted in the first round over the last decade that have not been anywhere close to or definitely haven't been the best tight end in their class. That's that's all. Do you have if that's not your own personal nightmare scenario? Do you have one? They trade back and add ten seventh round picks to keep me there as late as possible in the Saturday night and steal the best drink of the year from me, which is Saturday night after the draft, file the last story and podcast and sit down and top shelf bourbon. That's your favorite one? I thought the entire year, I work in a normal just strictly talking like that circumstance. I mean, I've heard you and Jay talk about this. I always thought it was after the last preseason game, but it's it's absolutely okay. So much work in front of us at that point. This is like the end of our this is schools out for summer. I mean, this is the end of a hard run, okay, and that it tastes nothing tastes quite as good as a Saturday night drink. Nothing very good. I mean, we could do a beer debate like vacation beers and long beers, and from my point of view, it's hard to topple, hard to topple that one. I gotta think what mine would be? What would yours be? Um, well, after the Knicks win the next champion, that's a personal thing. I'm like in a professional setting. H Well, let me think about that. Think about it, okay, and we can come back to it. We will. It is, uh, sixteen minutes away from four o'clock so far, I don't want to jinx it. This is like celebrating a no hitter in the third inning, but three for three en route to hopefully a perfect show. Yeah, you know what. Perfect show is not about performance. It's not about having opinions that are proven to be true or not stumbling over yourself. Perfect show is hitting all the breaks on time. Everybody has to show up, yep, And you got to hit all the breaks on times, right, So I showed up Terrence here, you're here, You've hit all the breaks on time. There you go. That's a good start. We decided yesterday that we're gonna take a stab at executing a perfect show. Do we have to like break into other programming on other stations to be like alert? Moeger is two thirds of the way perfect show progress per show in progress. Don't go in there and talk to him or look at him. Perfect show alert? Yeah, you need that. It is quarter to four. He's Paul Danner Junior Live podcast. The Growler Podcast a week from tonight at Nation and bet MGM at the Banks starts at seven o'clock. Go see, Paul. I'm gonna come by. We need you there, need me there by any stretch of the imagination there sure, just for comic relief. To want my draft grades? Is that what you're gonna want? I want you to show up and criticize Mike Potts on their picks. I will be like, I cannot believe, yes, but you know how bad they are at run fits. Where do you get off taking this guy? It's a quarter to four. This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati sports station and away from four o'clock. Paul Dayner Junior, Theathletic dot Com and the host of the Growler podcast What Shall Be Done Live at BEDMGM and Nation a week from tonight. Mike Potts will be there. Yes, director of College can Yeah, it's gonna be awesome, he said today. Specifically, you know, I'm close to the vest. I'm not gonna say anything. I can have much more detailed conversations about all this after the draft, and I thought, oh, well that's convenient. Then I'm glad we're gonna have you there. It's gonna be the perfect opportunity to do it, so we'll open up the box on it. Uh. Detroit is hosting the NFL Draft this year. Yeah, I don't know when. Okay, I know where. You know where I'm going. I mean, I have to have you can go down to. They want to host it. Uh, Yes, they've been trying to for a long time. The lack of facilities in the city have gotten in the way. Okay, hotel rooms, all that stuff. We're trying. Yeah. I think once the All Star Game went so well, I thought that it was gonna be and then the NFL Draft started moving. But I just I think that there are there's a lot going on there, you know, I just feel like them. I feel like the Bengals don't get as much attention and love and respect from the NFL offices often, no doubt, and Cincinnati isn't like of course Detroit isn't. But I just I think there's something in the way there, because how are they not even in the conversation on some of this stuff? I mean, what are we doing here? We're gonna go to Green Bay, You're gonna go to I mean, so it should be happening. But I do think that the city needs to have be more prepared for a big event like that than they currently are in the eyes of the NFL. Gotcha, Yeah, Duke Tobin's father passed away. Yeah, Bill Tobin. I think there are a lot of people who know the name but really didn't know that for much of the last twenty years, a figure with his NFL life, with his football life, was working for the Bengals on a I thought it was cool that Zach yesterday talked about his his small role but still his role in sort of signing off on Evan McPherson in the What a great story because Kevin Butler was the rookie kicker, I mean people free. He basically built the eighty five Bears. I mean, like yes, you know, and it talked about taking Kevin Butler and that being a big part of going to the Super Bowl. He was, of course there for a rejuvenation of Indianapolis in the nineties and has been more behind the scenes here with with Duke and Cincinnati. But I mean just the amount of institutional knowledge and instinct that that they had to be able to tap into here over the last couple of decades, just in Cincinnati, not even you know, is that's so valuable When you get to those spots, right you're like, should we And it's like, well, let me tell you how this worked out, and you know where you've just seen it and you've been through all of that stuff. And I remember, you know, last year right at this time, actually I wrote a big feature on Duke sort of like kind of he's such an anonymous exec and and and was, you know, maybe the best executive that nobody knew. And he told me in that piece he said, you know, I my I think my father, I'm you know, I'm biased. I think my father is the best scout this league has ever seen. In my opinion, and I think he is viewed through that lens like he just had an unbelievable skill for that. And I think his the genuineness that he had is what helped him establish that. And you see that in Duke Tobin if you're familiar with I mean, just the down, down to earth, genuine nature of that family. And you know, I had few interactions with Bill, but you know it's it's notable, and you hear that from everyone, and so it's tough. Man Like, I can't imagine this right now, going going through this, you know this has been going on, so going through this, during this whole process, and now, I meannybody that's ever lost somebody, a parent knows exactly how hard that entire process is and how much it weighs you down. So I can only imagine how you know, hard this season, this draft season has been for Duke. I'll see you next Tuesday here and then and then we can go. You can even carpool with me if you want. We could go down together. Oh, you have to finish the show. You want to stay here at all? Six, I don't here, welcome to I really don't want to. Sure, I know I've got stuff to I gotta make sure we get down there and set everything up. All right, you're ready to go. It's the perfect shows up for grabs here. Oh, see you next week. Goodbye, five away from for ESPN fifteen thirty. This report is sponsored that He's ESPN fifteen thirty. What's up? Good ad for No Moleger. This is ESPN fifteen thirty. Thank you for joining us today. By the way, you could send us tweed store in the show. Thanks to our friends at Emery Federal Credit Union, your credit union with hard since nineteen thirty nine, they sponsor our show. Preview video. Twitter feeded self a service, So Delta Dental. Delta Dental is building healthy, smart, vibrant communities for all. Good to Delta Dental, Oh dot com. Brendiman and Jones on baseball a little bit later on in the hour. A few other draft thoughts that we'll get to in a bit. We uh we did the first hour and Paul was awesome as always. We didn't really have that much of a chance to talk about what happened last night at GABP, and what happened last night at GABP was was basically all about Ranger Suarez, who stuck it to the Reds for seven terrific innings last night. This is an offensive team that has major, major issues against left handed pitching. Hunter Green did pitch last night, and he pitched Okay, okay, ish, he was font. We'll get to Hunter Green's role in what happened last night here in in just a bit. The reality, though, is is this, this right now is not a very good offensive. The way they just destroyed the Chicago White Sox seems like it happened about a month and a half ago, and they did score seven runs on Saturday and seven on Friday. But by and large, man you look at over the last week or so, starting with that series in Seattle, they're they're just there isn't really anybody who's who's hitting great right now. Ellie Dela Cruz has been fine and jam Or Candelario has been fine, and both players probably a little bit better than fine. But beyond those two, nobody is really hitting right now. And we can we can talk a lot about lineup construction, which is a thing that I'll get involved in it too, But people love to obsess over and there's certainly some very valid criticisms of some of the things the Reds have decided to do in regards to their batting order. But the reality is they just don't have enough guys right now who are hitting and when when that's a problem, I'm not really sure it matters that much who hits where. I would like to see Ellie Dela Cruz batting early in the lineup. I'd rather see him hitting closer to second or third right now than sixth. Let's be honest, man, their offensive issues last night, we're about the entire lineup and their offensive issues going back to the beginning of that Seattle series, pretty much about everybody. And the thing about that is it's very easy to say, well, look, uh, this is how this is reality. This is life without Matt McClain, without Noel A. Marte, and without TJ. Friedel, and then with all the guys who have spent you know, some time on the shelf because they've been sick. This is life when you're shorthanded. Now, the good news is they've gotten back some guys who are sick. Some guy's still dealing with whatever it is that's going through the Reds clubhouse. But Matt McClain is not coming back. Anytime soon. So you know, we can, we can throw our hands up in the air and shrug our shoulders and lament the fact that Matt McLain's not around. Well, that's not going to be the case until August, if it happens at all. They got to figure out a way to overcome. Same Forlve Marte. The aint getting him back for a while. They've played what twenty twenty two games? Twenty two games, so he's got fifty eight left, pretty large chunk of the season still without Noelve Marte. TJ. Friedel is closer to coming back, but he's not coming back within the next couple of days. So this collection of players the Reds have, regardless of where you want to put him in the batting order and how much you want to complain about, like Stuart Fairchild batting first or Elie Dela Cruz hitting low in the order, reality is, man, they just don't have enough really good offensive options right now. They don't have enough guys who are carrying their weight. They don't have enough guys who are putting up good numbers on the season. Can that change, of course, will it change? My guess is for most of these guys the answer is yes. But you know, we talked all the time about margin for error, and we talk all the time about, you know, portions of the schedule. The Reds last night started a portion of the schedule that throws at them almost non stop really good teams. When you are facing an onslaught of really good teams, that is a really bad time to be going through a collective batting slump. And the Reds are going through a collective batting slump. The good news is this, in their last seven games, their offensive output has been putrid. They didn't lose all seven games. They beat the Angels three times, but the Philadelphia Phillies and the teams they have coming up over the next couple of weeks, the Texas Rangers, all the West Coast teams much much better than the inferior opponents the Reds beat when the Angels came to town this past weekend, or when they went to Chicago to play the White Sox two weeks ago. It's quite simple. As much as we can go after David Bell for his lineup card, the reality is they just they need some guys who can start to start hitting. They need individual players to carry more weight we'll see if that can begin to happen starting tonight. Reds are averaging a shade over three runs per game over their last seven. Last night, Hunter Green pitched. It feels to me, and yes, social media is a big part of this, but it feels to me that every Hunter Green start has almost become a referendum. And so yesterday we had some fun with this. I said, I'm gonna make sports talk radio history, and I think I did on this show yesterday sports Talk Radio history. Or I have an opinion. I have a take, if you will that everybody within the sound of my voice will agree with. And that take was, it would be awesome if Hunter Green can pitch at least six innings a game. Last night he pitched seven. That's not insignificant by any stretch of the imagination, right, That's not insignificant. The Reds went into last night with a severely taxed bullpen. Frankie montass they're gonna have to change his spot in the rotation and have Nick Martinez Philett, which disrupts things in the bullpen. They had eight and the third innings covered by relief pitching. On Sunday, this bullpen was used a lot this weekend. It rose to the occasion. It pitched very well against the Angels. But all right, when you have to go to your bullpen on Sunday in the first inning the starting pitcher on Monday, you got to get some length out of him. Hunter Green gave him some length Hunter Green in the first couple of innings. The first inning last night. What was interesting was he threw nothing but fastballs. Now he looked as dominant throwing the heater in the first inning yesterday or last night, as I've seen, but he threw nothing but fastballs. It's interesting. Last night he relied on the heater a lot, and man it got up there over one hundred and four on the gun at one point. But for a guy whose secondary pitches haven't been discussed a lot, it felt like he was a little bit more reliant on the fastball last night. You know, he was sort of victimized when Philly scored their first run the Castiano bloop right behind first. That wasn't a very well hit ball. They kind of nickel and dimed them with sacrifice flies. But the second time through the batting order the Phillies did some damage. Hunter minimized the damage. I would stop short of saying quality start. Four runs over seven innings is less than ideal. You do that over the course of an entire season. My simple math would say that that puts your ERA over five. Now there are other metrics that we can use to determine how effective of a pitcher you are, but an ERA over five by and large not good. So it's hard to say the final scoring line was any good. But as the Reds were just faltering their way through the night offensively, Hunter kept him at least in range ish ish ish, he gave him length. Here's the thing, man, because I watch people on social media argue about Hunter Green. Hunter is doing a lot of things better this year. I retweeted from Bryce Spaulding, who's a very good Red Twitter follow some of the metrics that would suggest that Hunter Green is improving this year. And again, man, he's had some moments and he had some last night where he looks like a guy that many believe is going to be just a top of the rotation dude for all of his prime years. Hopefully that happens. I think we are all if we're being reasonable, we're willing to be patient with Hunter Green. We understand he is still in the developmental stage of his big league career. I think most of us really want to see what these next fifty starts look like, which is, you know, the rest of this season and a good chunk of next year. But what his next fifty starts, including last night, looked like, and compare them to his first fifty starts. And we're looking for improvement, and we're looking for a greater variety of pitches, and we're looking for a guy who could adjust to how the league has adjusted to him, which is, you know where avoiding the lineup getting to you that second time through comes in. But at the same time, we want the Reds to be good this year, right like we want the Reds to legitimately compete this season. I've said often, we got to remember that what the Reds are trying to do this season is really hard. It's hard to win a division, it's hard to get to the postseason while you're still, you know, kind of in that stage where you have a lot of guys who are developing, not just one or two either, a lot of guys still developing. Hutter Green is on that list of players who are developing. Well if you want the Reds to take what they did last season and do better this year, then for a lot of these guys, that learning process has to accelerate. Like we've talked about Ellie Dela Cruz's ceiling. If the Reds are gonna take a major step forward in the win lost column, especially now without some of the guys they're playing without Ellie Dela Cruze's development has to be accelerated. And same for Graham Ashcraft, and same for Nicolodolo, and same for Christian and Caronasio on Strand, and same for Hunter Green. It's not putting undue pressure. It's not being impatient. It's not failing to recognize what his talent projects for him long term. It's about we all want the Reds to win this year. We think that's possible. But if you want it to happen and think it can happen, then the development does need to be accelerated. Five point three seven four nine, fifteen thirty eight six six seven oh two three seven seven six. We'll have a Paul question here momentarily on Twitter, sixteen after four o'clock on ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station twenty one after four This is ESPN fifteen thirty on Oegar. Thank you for joining us today. Brennan and Jones on baseball is coming up in just about thirty minutes. Don't forget uh the Thursday. He's gonna say Tuesday. Today's Tuesday, Thursday. This Thursday. Two days from now, Day one of the NFL Draft. Night one of the NFL Draft, we will be broadcasting on ESPN fifteen thirty. I think for like the fourth straight year. If I'm not mistaken from Long Necks and Wilder, we'll be there from three to six. We have some really cool prizes thanks to our friends at Budweiser. Our buddy James or pen Is gonna stop by and spend at least an hour and maybe I can coax even more out of them. And a great way to start one of the really fun sports weekends of the entire year. It's one of those weekends. You know, if you like me, you love playoffs. So the NBA, the NHL Reds are playing this weekend, you got the NFL Draft three day event, so much going on. Start the weekend on a Thursday with us at Long Necks and Wilder. It's gonna be an absolute plast excuse me from a three to six on Thursday afternoon. We hope to see you there. Take a phone call or two. But by the way, it's it's we're not halfway there, but so far Tarn correct me if I'm I'm wrong. So far perfect show is in play? Perfect show through in baseball terms, I guess we could say about maybe five and a half innings. Uh yeah, yeah, I would say maybe through like four and a half, maybe through five. Perfect show. I'm I don't believe in jinx is. But the definition of a perfect show, which we have never accomplished, is to hit every break on time. It has nothing to do with the content, because there's there's no way in hell I could deliver a perfect show with content. Mark is in Louisville, high Mark, how you doing? I have a question. My question is did the RIDS front office pay fifteen millions for Candelaria and fifteen millions for Frankie Montage? Is that right? Did I? Or was it left? That did happen? Yes, yes, that did happen. What are they thinking? Well? The Candelario thing I thought was was weird because I thought there were better players available. I also think though they didn't envision him being an everyday position player, right. I think in an ideal world, they go, Okay, we'll have Candelare is sort of a swing guy, but our main third baseman is going to be Marte, Our main first baseman is going to be Cees. Candelario can play some third, but he could also DH. But yeah, relative to some of the other guys that were out there, I thought at the time that that signing was kind of underwhelming, if I'm being honest. Now, they had the money to spend. Nobody else really making a huge doing this team. They had the money to spend, but jam Or Candelario's production was not what I think a lot of people thought it was or hoped it was before he got here. This team has a terrible, terrible history of free agent signings. I mean, they never get their money's worth. Go back last year that haltfielder from San Diego that they cut two thirds into the season, Will Myers fib what was his name, Will Myers? Will Myer terrible hit less than two hundred and you keep going back and you look at him. The five guys that Dick Williams signed terrible, And I know everybody thinks that the guy that went to Philadelphia was a great player and everything. He should just send Joey Vado part of his check for batting in front of Vado the whole season, because Vado had a terrific year. I mean, this team cannot sign a good free agent. And the problem is, and I know you're gonna get mad if I criticize David Bell. No, he doesn't adjust. I mean he lets the leadoff hitters excuse me, h, on the second baseman, what's his name? The one right now is Jonathan India. Jonathan India one for twenty six. You want him in the lineup, move him somewhere, not leave him in the leadoff. Then he replaces him with the left handed hitting outfielder. It hasn't It's like hasn't had a hit since early in the season. He doesn't adjust, he does doesn't make movements. He lets Candelary of that fourth or fifth all season. This is why this team can't score. And I need to make a public apology on your program, all right? Can I address what you just said first and then you can do that, all right? So, I think the criticism of the Reds lineup that you just sort of outlined is legitimate and fair. I think more so than people would like to admit. The lineup itself is not solely a reflection of the manager. He has input, he writes the names on the card. I think whatever you see the lineup on a whatever the lineup is on a given night, is more the result of collaboration than folks are either willing to admit, willing to realize, or care. But that doesn't mean that the criticisms aren't valid because everything you just outlined I feel the same way. Okay, good, One more thing before my apology. You know who's you know who shouldn't be on this or should never be on this team. And it's not that you know he he's a bad person, bad guy, or anything. Bubba Thompson. This team can't afford to carry a player that's an automatic count New York Yankees, a twenty seven New York Yankees, the sixty one Yankees, the seventy five Reds. You can carry a specialist, a pinch runner, specialist, a defensive specialist. This team can't do it. Yeah, but is he on the team of TJ. Friedel's healthy? Of course not. If they could have found somebody better between now and when Freil gets back. Anybody who could hit the ball. They don't need a defensive specialists. They need someone, Are you that guy? I mean, we're there's got to be somebody out there that can hit better than him. Well if they, if they were, if they were that good, wouldn't they be on a team right now? I mean, like, I'm with you, but Bubba Thompson does not offer competitive at bats, But he's not on the team of Freedles. I mean, unfortunately, like Santiago espinall same thing. He's fine with their he is awful with the bat. That dude's not even a rat. He's not even a part of this organization if they're not dealing with the Mount McClain situation and the Noelve Marte situation. So yeah, unfortunately, yes, So unfortunately, you're you're dealing with with guys who are not big league caliber players, or players that they would have no interest in bringing here, that are only here out of necessity. Well, my point would be a good front office would be prepared for something like this. At least have somebody a hitter in mind somewhere. There's got to be somewhere out there. It's available anyway from my public apology here two Sundays ago, Austin somebody was doing the Sunday Afternoon show. God does a great job. Yes, I definitely like him. Okay, So anyway, I called up and proposed the trade. And I know how you all like fans proposing trades, you know, But I offered to India Hunter Green in a high prospect to the Braves for Austin Riley. I want to public apologize to the Braves be insulted. What was I thinking. I don't know why the Atlanta Braves would They've just invested and and by the way, a contract that I don't think is that out of whack and Austin Riley to be the third baseman for the rest of our lives. So I don't yes, but the breads is the same thing. Was a Hunter Green? Not really? They no, but they offered him a long term contract and they will tell you before the season that he is a cy young candidate. They did not give him, thank you, Mark. They did not give Hunter Green a long term contract. They extended his existing deal for one year. Hunter Green is the one hundred and second highest paid pitcher in the sport this year. It was a sound investment. Then it's a sound investment. Now It's four thirty on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station. Cincinnati's need to Serve you sports headlines are a service of Kelsey Chevrolet, Home of lifetime powertrain protection and guarantee credit approval from their family to yours for life, Kelsey, chef dot comrades and phillies again tonight at GABP. Andrew Abbott will throw tonight for Cincinnati. Red's looking for at least a run and ideally at least more than two hits after getting shut out last night? Are you ready for tonight's starting lineup against left hander Christopher Sanchez. I will give it to you here it is. I just have to pull it up because I read it off the internet. Well, let's se let's see. Let's see all right now. Fair Child's leading off again at center, Steer and left Stevenson behind the plate, Candelario's at third, Cees at first, Elie Denacruz at shortstop, Martini is dhing, Espinal is playing second base, Will Benson in right field six on a seven hundred w l W. I don't know that we have any other big sports I'm not even sure that like saying the Reds have a game tonight is a headline, But here we are. I don't think I have anything else in the way of a local sports headlines. I also have no idea why I'm holding a piece of paper with month old college basketball bets. Here we are. I don't know, I don't know. You know, there's something we do. We it's it's it's gonna say it's it's rare that I like the I told you so thing, but I'm gonna do it anyway. Uh, Hunter Green gets a contract, and like I I know, not everybody follows the ins and outs of how baseball contracts work for players when they first get to the big leagues and then stick around for their first six years. What they hear or what they see, and like I understand it, it's because the money is so insane. You see the dollar amount. What the did, what the Reds did with Hunter Green is they is they essentially guaranteed locked in what he was going to make for the remainder of his time that the Reds had team control over Hunter Green, and then added one more guaranteed year, so they essentially gave him a one year extension on top of what they already had. Now there is another year the proverbial I guess eighth year of the deal, or the Reds have a club option. But they didn't give him this long drawn out contract. They didn't pay him for the next ten years. They didn't offer him a Homer Bailey type of deal. They essentially locked in his deal. And I read the numbers last week. If you looked at twenty twenty eight, which is when Hunter Green is due to make sixteen million dollars, the last guaranteed year of that deal, sixteen million dollars this season would not make him one of the twenty eight highest paid pitchers in the sport. Yes, in real world terms, that's a lot of money. That's more money than I can wrap my brain around. But in baseball terms, for a twenty eight year old starting pitcher, that's a bargain. The Reds are betting on him being a bargain. But what happens, Like we did this with Joe Evado, Joey Vado was beloved in this town. He gets a contract, It's just it's it's what money does to us man. We resent it sometimes so much. Suddenly Joe Evado, who was effectively the same player he was once he signed that contract to the guy who was the MVP in twenty ten, when he was basically making the league minimum. Well, we lead the conversation with the money. I've never believed in doing that. I've never. I've never. I didn't believe in doing it with Joey Vado. I don't believe in doing it with Joe Burrow. But Joe Burrow gets his money right, highest paid player in the history of the sport, and suddenly when he's hurt, you got to hear how overpaid he is. What Joe Burrow is making when he gets hurt. I don't think about what he's making. I think about the impact on the team and how last year's Bengals season never really got underway because Joe was absent for most of training camp, not himself at the beginning of the season, and then obviously, right when it kind of felt like things were going in the right direction, he suffers the risk injury. That stinks. That's a set of circumstances that's hard to overcome if your quarterback is under a rookie contract or if he's making very little money relatively speaking, I just the Hunter Green for me. Hunter Green thing for me. I think it's it's a combination of a lack of understanding of, or maybe even a willingness to understand how baseball contracts work, an unwillingness to understand sort of the money that's involved here for high end starting pitchers, Hunter Green this year is the one hundred and second highest paid pitcher in the game. He might say he's he's basically making what he's worth. Maybe you believe that there are one hundred and one better pitchers in baseball than Hunter Green. I haven't really done the mat there. I don't know. But first of all, what the Reds did is is they they made a pretty calculated wager here. By the way, probably are gonna do it again. Hey, we think this guy is a chance to be really good, so good that what we would like to do is lock in right now what he's making and if he ends up being as good as we think, we're gonna end up looking like geniuses here, because we're gonna be getting an elite guy or a top end pitcher, front of the rotation guy for pennies relatively speaking, Like that's a that's a that's an investment. It's a smart investment, but he was. He's gonna pitch for the Reds all of those years anyway. The only year they've guaranteed that extended the existing deal was twenty twenty eight. He was gonna pitch for the Reds this year if they gave him no pay raise. By the way, he's what now five starts in. He has to get better. He's got to be more consistent. He's got to do a better job of limiting hard contact. He's got to be better his second time through the batting order. I am betting on those things happening. He's twenty four years old. Last night was his fifty first start. Let's say that next season, which next year would be the first year where hunter Green would be arbitration eligible. Now he's not anymore. Hunter Green's gonna get a one hundred percent raise next year. He's due to make six million bucks this year, he makes three. If hunter Green over the next five and a half months kicks it into gear and start supplying lessons learned from the first fifty starts, stays healthy, has a quality season, pitches deeper into games more frequently. If he were to do those things, and then go into arbitration. Chances are next season he's making more than the six mil he's guaranteed this year. And by the way, that like the Vado thing, I at least understood from the standpoint that people could say, well, Vado's making what he's making, and that keeps them from being able to make the team better elsewhere. That's not the case with Hunter Green right now. That's not the case with any of these guys. They have nobody occupying such a huge chunk of player payroll that it's gonna preclude them from making the team better elsewhere. They spent more than most teams this offseason. The Cincinnati Reds spent more than most teams this offseason. That's with Hunter Green's salary locked in. It's a smart bet. We had the guy anyway, we're gonna lock in. By the way, it's a little bit easier to build around a guy when you have at least one or two dudes whose salary you know what it is, You don't have to project, you don't have to guess. By the way, let's say if in his age twenty sixth season, now Hunter really gets going, and if you're skeptical that that's gonna happen. That's fair. But he really gets going, and he's now considered one of the better pitchers in the National League, and maybe he's an All Star. He's going to be making eight million dollars would not put him among the top fifty highest paid pitchers in the sport this year. They didn't unnecessarily pay him. They didn't give him a long term contract extension. They essentially said, here's what you're gonna get paid. You're going to be pitching for us. We've put a lot into you. We're not trading you anytime soon. Your salary is guaranteed. We're gonna bet that you end up being quite a bargain. And by the way, you'll have a chance to maybe recoup some of the money you could have made when you hit free agency before you're thirty years old. What the Reds did was smart financial planning. It shouldn't be dwelled on. Brendanman and Jones on baseball Coming up in ten minutes. Quarter to five. Perfect Show continues ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station. Listen, you knew the answer to that question? Two oh series lead, stirring comeback, then the game on an eight to nothing run after trailing by five in the game's final thirty seconds. Philadelphia seventy six Ers gag missed free throws, turnovers, bad coaching, and just flat out getting out toughed by the toughest team in the league. Isaiah Hartenstein grabbing rebounds, Dante Devincenzo with the double bang from Mike Breen, and the Knicks overcome a bad Jalen Brunson shooting performance to take a two oh series lead for the first time in an NBA playoff series in e in years. Also, the Lakers lost last night. Tarren, I won't dwell on it. My apologies. Yes, there were some officiating inconsistencies in both games. Lebron was complaining about a call that was overturned in the third quarter. Buddy, I love Lebron. James, come on, I think that's a code for something else. I think he's tired of Darvin Ham and that's don't think he could complain about officiating. Probably some validity to that. Uh, Sixers fans have a gripe. I'm the first to admit it. Philly fans have a gripe. If you're among them. They got away with holding Tyrese Maxi on the inbound play and Nick Nurse tried to get a time out and couldn't. He should have gotten one, they Philly fans, I'm willing to say it, have a legitimate gripe. Sometimes your team loses a playoff game because a ref misses a pretty obvious call and then the other team scores a bunch of points in a very short amount of time, which is what happened when Reggie Miller put off Greg Anthony in Game one of the Eastern Conference semifinals in nineteen ninety five on his way to scoring eight points and nine seconds. And you have to live with it and still move on and figure out a way to win the series. Maybe, unlike the ninety five Nicks, the Sixers will do that. Brendiman and Jones on Baseball's Next Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty. Traffic from the UC Health Traffic Center. Regular screenings are key for early cancer detection, especially for breast, lung, and corectal cancers. Schedule years now at the University of Cincinnati Cancer Center called five one three, five eighty five UCCC. Today, there's a few accidents to watch for seventy four West of two to seventy five Montgomery Road northbound after Cooper Road Dana Avenue near Madison Road, and there's a disabled blocking the left lane seventy five south at Western Hills Viaduct. I'm John Crawford with Traffic. Fifteen thirty. Taco Tuesday. Oh Yeah, guess what day it is? Taco Tuesday. Guess what day is Taco Tuesday. Taco Tuesday. Yeah, Taco Tuesday. Two oh Tuesday, My world tarn. Good afternoon, leagg Or ESPN fifteen thirty. Thank you for listening. Hopefully you're having a terrific two and oh Tuesday. By the way, can I make a request that Brendanman and Jones segment. I want more of those where they devote the entire segment to talking about old ball players that like I grew up watching, They did Cal Daniels, the Kevin Mitchell won. Kevin Mitchell his best year's late eighties, early nineties, but one of those dudes, like growing up, I don't know that there was a hitter who consistently hit the ball as hard as Kevin Mitchell. We don't have stats like exit velocity and hard hit ball percentage for players who played back then, But it felt like that dude never made a quiet out. That guy and did strike out a ton either only had one year where he struck out over one hundred times. But you talk about like cartoonishly insane numbers with the Reds, Kevin Mitchell was here ninety three, ninety four, and ninety six. He never played in more than one hundred games in a year with the Reds. Ninety four obviously was the strike year, and so I think the major league leader in games played that season was played in one hundred and sixteen games. But if you look at that stretch the three years combined Kevin Mitchell in Cincinnati, he batted three thirty two with an ops of ten to forty five and hit fifty five home runs in seven hundred and forty seven at bats. Now, the ninety three teams stunk, the ninety four team didn't get a chance to finish the season, and in nineteen ninety six this city decided he didn't care about baseball. That team was the definition average eighty one and eighty one. But like that dude raked as a Red raked. And to illustrate just how cartoonish the numbers were in the mid nineties, So ninety four, the strike happens, I think August twelfth, so the last month and a half of the season doesn't happen. Kevin Mitchell, though, hit thirty home runs that season, and he played in ninety five games. Hit thirty home runs. That was good enough for tenth in Major League Baseball in a season that ended on August thirtieth. There were nine guys who hit more than thirty home runs. Of course, back then, if you even said, hey, maybe not everything's on the up and up here, people got madagia. Kevin Mitchell in ninety four finished ninth for the Reds, ninth in the MVP voting, right ninth in the National League MVP voting. The numbers were so obst I heard that you wouldn't even give him a look, like I'm not saying he should have finished higher. Jeff Bagwell won it. Just go on Baseball Reference and look at the nineteen ninety four NLMVP. Just look at the voting. It has all their numbers. Kevin Mitchell's numbers were absurd. He had three twenty six that year, thirty five thirty home runs in ninety five games, just absurd. And yet the numbers were so ridiculous in that era that numbers like that wouldn't even give you strong consideration to be a most valuable player. So I want more segments like that. I want fewer segments about where Tracy's going on vacation. I want more segments about old ball players. Sign me up for that. In fact, I'll submit requests. I'll submit request to Marty and Tracy and they could talk about old ball players. I want them to talk about Kevin Mitchell's segment was fun. One more thing here quickly on the Reds by the way, five o'clock Happy Hours is service of our friends at michelob Ultra. How good does a mic culture sound right now? I could crush, frankly, more than one mic culture brood for active living. And if you're going to the ballpark tonight, I don't know what the weather is gonna do. Culture can't beat that. We do Paul questions or Paul questions on Twitter at Moegger by the way, a service of United Heartland Insurance. So I think this is kind of interesting. We were talking about Hunter Green and his start last night. The good was the Reds needed length. He gave him length, Like my whole thing yesterday with Hunter Green is I just want you to pitch deeper into games they did not win. Let's be honest, it wouldn't have mattered. The Reds couldn't hit Ranger Suarez. This is not a very good offensive team right now. I think that's gonna change. But it's not a very good offensive team right now. But at the very least, if you're gonna lose a day after you have to go to your bullpen in the first inning, could you at least not lose and have to use a thousand relief pitchers. Casey Legomina came up and kind of pitched the game out of range, but Hunter Green gave him seven. The definition the official definition of a quality start is six innings or more three runs or less. That's an era of four or five. Oh well, seven innings four runs is not a quality start by that definition, right But he gave him some length. But it is interesting, and he was. He was terrific in the first couple of innings. The Castianos blooper was really unfortunate. Stuff like that happens. He threw his fastball a bunch last night, but as has often been the case, he gets through the batting order a second time, and he can't go through it unscathed. Hitters have made adjustments to him. Now how does he adjust? I just did this as an exercise last night. I put it in very basic black and white terms. Now, most of life is in the gray, but I made it black and white. Green start last night, pass or fail. Now, there's there's a lot of room between pass or fail, right, Like an A is not the same as a C, but both are passing. And I'm an expert on this because I was a C student. But I'm making a black and white pass or fail. Seven innings which is good, four runs, which is not great. But again, he's not the main reason why that he was gonna have to be perfect to win that game last night, with the way Ranger Suarez through and with the number of just non competitive at bats the Reds had, it's close to fifty to fifty. Now, I don't think anybody would call last night a smashing success. I don't think anybody would call it an unmitigated failure. It was okay, but I just I'm just sort of curious as to like what that start If that's pass or fail? So vote now, at Moeger. Again, the voting is pretty close to fifty to fifty. I think that's interesting. So you'll find roughly half of the folks who are chiming in on this. We'll look at last night starting go past, and half would say fail. And I'll admit to being a little conflicted here. You know, again, if I put this in terms that allowed for some gray, well, then it's neither pass or fail. It's somewhere in the middle. On one hand, you got some length. On the other, they didn't win the game. Four runs over seven innings isn't great. He was okay at times. He was not okay at times, specifically in the middle innings past veil vote now Moeger at Moeger. We'll get to that in uh in just a second. Reds and Phillies again tonight, we do have to spend some time on something that happened today with the Bengals. We'll do that in just about seven minutes as we get set for the draft, which begins on Thursday. We're always trying to find fixes. We're always trying to find solutions to stuff. I think that's why we obsess over batting orders. Hey, putting this guy here and then sliding this guy to here. That's going to be a fix. And by the way, sometimes it works, and then sometimes you just sort of accept that there's a problem and the only solution to the problem is everybody needs to do better. The Reds over the last seven games are averaging just a tiny shade over three runs per game, and consider that in two of those games they've scored seven runs. They have figured out a way to at least tread water by sweeping that series against the Angels. But right now, this team offensively just has a lot of guys who are either slumping or not having good years, or are just not very good offensive players. Their fortunes are only going to change if those things change. There's no this isn't where we were a year ago, where it's call everybody up right. A year ago at this time, this team wasn't great. But you could you could talk about bringing up Matt McClain and bringing up Ellie and bringing up you know, eventually down the road Christian and Carnassi on Strand and Noel A. Martinez bringing these guys up, well, that's that's not happening. The Saviors, not in Louisville, the Saviors are likely on the injured list or suspended. Most of those guys not coming back anytime soon. So I don't I certainly believe Ellie should be hitting higher in the batting order, But you're you're asking a manager who's got some dudes who wouldn't be here if the circumstances were different. You're asking him to make do without some of the guys that were looked at as key components to this year's team. They're playing backups now. You're being completely fair if you expect Jonathan India to hit better or even like a Will Benson and Tyler Stevenson. Right now, they just have too many guys who are not carrying their weight offensively, and that's not changing because they trade for somebody, or promote somebody, or bring somebody back off the injury list anytime soon. It's just going to have to change through better performance. That's a very basic way of putting it. It's it's not maybe the most ideal way to put it, but that doesn't make it untrue. Five point three seven four nine fifteen thirty A six six seven oh two three seven seven six Bengals did make a roster mo today we have to talk about it next on ESPN fifteen thirty, but away from five o'clock. This is ESPN fifteen thirty d five o'clock Happy Hour, which is a service of michelob Ultraum. I am an idiot, so I neglected to mention this when we did our our bottom of the hour sports headlines last hour, I talked about the Reds game, and I said, well, there's there's no other there's no other local sports headlines. That is is that is incorrect, That is not true. Jake Browning signs a two year contract. Now, obviously Jake Browning had no wiggle room here. We discuss this incessantly during his time as the Bengals backup quarterback. They were not gonna lose him in free agency. He was an exclusive rights free agent, which essentially meant all the Bengals had to do is was tender him a one year contract and that was gonna be it. He gets a two year contract with the team, so he gets an extra year. This is this is great. I mean, like, I don't have a list of one through thirty two backup quarterbacks in the NFL, but this is a legitimately great quarterback. Situation. Joe Burrow, hopefully stays healthy, is one of the best in the sport. Jake Browning is one of the most reliable at what he does. You cannot beat that. Think about like where we were going into the season last year. If Joe has to miss time, what are you going to get? No idea right now? You have a general sense of what it could look like. Different offensive coordinator this coming season, but another year in the system for Jake, so there's no familiarity issues. There's a good working relationship between Joe and between Jake Browning. If Jake Browning has to play, that's pretty good. And you who knows how things unfold early last year, My guess is Joe still would have played. But early last season when Joe was quite visibly not himself but still trying to play, and the Bengals were losing games, and the counter to what the Bengals were doing was you want to try Jake Browning. You have no idea what he can do. Now in a situation like that, you might be a little bit more willing to take a little bit more time, not rush things, not force things, and feel like you know what this guy can get us through a game. This guy can get us. Through this guy, we can design a game plan around what he does and what he does well and what he does poorly, and we can still function and we can still win. The idea behind any backup quarterbacks to not have them play as many games as Jake Browning played last year. The idea behind a backup quarterback is, in a pinch, we need them. Maybe it's for a half, maybe it's for a series, maybe it's for a week, maybe it's for consecutive games. It's not six, seven, eight, nine games. It's we want to still function. We want to still have a chance to win, even if we don't have our guy. Say what you want about the Bengals, good and bad, or however optimistic or pessimistic you might be about this coming season, and I'm for the most part pretty damn optimistic. But one of the things we're not going to spend any time talking about is backup quarterback Derby or OMG, what would happen if Jake has to play? And by the way they they do them a little bit of a solid, They give him an extra year, gets a little bit of a pay bomb, like they didn't have to do that. And they did. I mean the one year the exclusive rights free agent means the Bengals could have simply said one year contract a league minimum salary based on his level of experience. Instead they extended an extra year. It's pretty good and so for the next two seasons, the Bengals are going to have a pretty damn good quarterback situation. Like last year in many respects, was a huge waste. Right, the team didn't make the postseason, they had a lot of guys who were hurt. It never really took off. But at the very least, if you're looking for things that did get accomplished during the season, they have a backup quarterback now, one worth keeping around and one who can provide some degree of comfort if you are thinking about what would happen if Joe had to miss more time. And let's be honest, man, I mean, I don't love the whole injury prone term as it gets thrown around sometimes way too loosely. But Joe Burrow has played four NFL seasons. At the end of three of those four seasons, he's been hurt. Rookie season against Washington after the Super Bowl, right, he hobbled off and suffered a knee injury and then what happened with his wrist on Thursday Night football against the Ravens last year. So the smart money is over the course of the next two seasons, for sure, but even just the upcoming season, hopefully you're not needing Jake Browning for a long stretch of time. The chances are he's going to have to play meaningful snaps at some point. A year ago, if I would have said that to you, you would have shuddered in terror, and understandably, so now I say that you feel remotely confident, remotely comfortable. How could you not twenty six minutes after five o'clock that I referenced before, we have nearly four hundred people who have voted. Fifty two percent looked at Hunter Green's start last night and say pass. Here's why I'm thinking. I think I'm gonna lean pass. Yes, they lose. Yes, four runs over seven innings is not great. But I'm the guy who keeps talking about Hunter being in the developmental stages of his career. Last night was his fifty first big league start. Last night was also the twentiest start that he has made where he has gotten through six and he gave him a little extra got through seven. I'm gonna go pass because he found a way to give the team what it needed and that could be used I think as a pretty positive learning experience. He has to get better. And again, like it's it's not lacking patients. It's not lacking patients with Hunters, it's kind of us all being impatient with the Reds not winning. If we want this team to build upon what they did last year and win even more games this season and have a chance to make the playoffs, maybe win the division, perhaps even advance in the postseason, the learning curve for Hunter Green, the learning curve for a lot of these guys, has to accelerate. That's again like that, maybe more than anything else, I have talked for weeks now about you know, just how we should all understand really how hard it is to do what the Reds are trying to do. They're trying to win well at the same time at the big league level developing players. They're developing players. It's not easy to do. So if you want the winning to occur, then the development is going to have to be accelerated. You can apply this to Lodolo and who's been terrific so far in his first starts. You can apply this to Graham Ashcraft. You could apply this to a lot of guys on the team. You got to apply it to Hunter Green too. Want the Reds to win big this year, Want the Reds to be a factor in September, Want the Reds to play in October. Starting pitching is going to be a big reason why that happens. If starting pitching's a big reason why that happens, the learning curve for a lot of these guys accelerates. But you could argue, I think last night might have been a step in the right direction, just from the sheer standpoint of not just length, but the pitch efficiency needed to achieve that length. He didn't throw one hundred pitches last night, didn't have the world's best stuff. Thought it was interesting how fastball heavy he was, but you got to get through the the lineup a second time better. But if you're looking for pitch efficiency, Hunter Green did give you that last night. It's why I will vote pass, But I do understand why anybody else would vote fail. Vote now at Moeger. Thanks to United Heartland Insurance, Sports Headlines and part of our conversation with Paul Danner Junior coming up on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports station taren. We're almost there. It's five point thirty five. Every segment has started right on time, every break has been taken on time. We aren't there yet. We're closing it on the finish line of the long elusive perfect show. If anyone in the history of this of this station executed a perfect show, I'm sure Lance has. I know Tony and Austin, I'm not. Back in the day when Lance did this show, he had his share of perfect shows. But in the history since we started on this show, on this particular show in two thousand and nine, and even back when I was on nine to Noon in two thousand and seven and eight, I don't think I've ever been part of a perfect show. So we're not quite there yet. Perfect show is every segment has to start on time. We've had perfs, we've had perfect starts. I don't know that we've had a perfect show, but it's it's kind of like if you throw a perfect game in baseball, it's cool. You don't get anything right if you throw if you throw a complete game, shutout, nobody gets on base. It's a perfect game. You could throw a complete game, shutout and give up three hits and two walks. You get the same as if you throw a perfect game. So we're not gonna get a bonus or anything for doing the perfect show. We're just gonna go to bed tonight with the satisfaction that we were a part of Moegger's show history if we get there. Sports headlines are a service at Kelsey Chevrolet, home of lifetime powertrain protection and guaranteed credit approval from their family to yours for life, kelseyshev dot com. It is kind of gnarly looking outside Reds and Philly's game two tonight of a four game set. Andrew Abbott is gonna start for Cincinnati. If the gameplay, Christopher Sanchez will throw for Philly. Cincinnati's a starting line. I don't know if sometimes the weather here looks awful and then you know, you go downtown it's great. So I'm just telling you what I'm seeing out my p pole window right now for the third time today. Your Red starting lineup here. It is Fairchild's in center, steers and left. Stevenson is catching Candelario's at third base, Ces at first. Ellie de la Cruz is betting sixth and playing shortstop. Nick Martini is dhing Espinal is playing second base and betting eighth. Will Benson is in right field. He hits ninth again six p forty this evening on seven hundred WLW. I mentioned before, Jake Browning signs a two year contract with the Bengals to remain as Joe Burrow's backup. Logan Woodside is also back. Logan Woodside taken in the seventh round by the Bengals of the twenty eighteen draft, the draft where they took Billy Price in the first round. Billy Price no longer in the league. Logan Woodside, who actually got in a game last year for the Atlanta Falcons, is back in the NFL, back with the Bengals. Congratulations to him. NFL Draft will be on Thursday night, don't forget Thursday afternoon. We're broadcasting from a Long Necks and Wilder right. There's three locations, Wilder, hebre and Richwood. We will be at the Wilder location and we've got some really cool prizes thanks to our friends at Budweiser. We've got me, We've got awesome food. James orpen is gonna come by. This is the fourth straight year that we have broadcast from Long Necks on the first day of the Draft. We cannot wait. Hopefully you can join us right off I two seventy five the Wilder Exit. It's gonna be an absolute blast Long Necks in Wilder on a Thursday for the Draft from three until six o'clock. We hope to see you. There should be good tomorrow in the show. Kelsey Conway is gonna be with us at three point thirty three. Mike Renner, formerly of Pro Football Focus, one of the very best draft analysts there is. He is going to be on this show as well. We don't know the time yet, but we do know he is going to join us and we are looking forward to that. Tons of a good draft stuff to get to with both Kelsey and Mike tomorrow. Speaking of good draft stuff, Paul Danner Junior, The Athletic The Growler Podcast. Next Happy Hours of Service of Michelo Ultra sixteen away from six o'clock. This is ESPN fifteen thirty. Part of our conversation with Paul Dayner Junior is coming up in just a minute. I thought for sure, Tarin you would play some pitbull today because I guess he announced that he is going to play Cincinnati again. Didn't even hear about that? Well, I didn't either until Tony and Austin. Tony, Oh what did you? Are you happy that Sam Mall is back? Sam Mal's back. Yes, he's been activated from the fifteen day Al whould they send down Casey Lugomina? He got sent down. Sam sam Mal last year deadline acquisition from the A's did a pretty nice job. That's a good addition. Red's bullpen in Legamina went very good last night, but who cares. Red's bullpen over the weekend against the Angels was terrific. Top notch, top notch, I say, and Sam Mall sam Maul, if I'm not mistaken, I think the number was twenty four. He pitched in twenty four games with the Reds last year, excuse me, after he was acquired, and I think he gave up a run in exactly one of them. That sounds about right. I think he was like touch for a run. It did a good job inheriting base runners and all that other stuff too. But yeah, he did a nice job. He's back, and that's a good thing. Andrew Abbott on the Mountain tonight for Cincinnati. By the way, Bryce Harper is still on the paternity list right he is still not back. Yes, no, Bryce Harper. That's kind of nice. Miss tonight, miss tomorrow. He's supposed to be back in time for Thursday. It didn't matter that that Ranger Suarez who threw last night. If there are right now, if there are five better left handers right now in baseball, I'd like to know who they are. Maybe Nicoldolo was one of them. Rangers Warez was terrific last night. Every single Tuesday or Buddy. Paul Danner Junior joins us from The Athletic and the Growler podcast. His seven round mock Draft at the Athletic was posted today and his Mega Mock Draft podcast was posted yesterday. Get that Good at YouTube Watch it with Jeff Hobson, Jay Morrison, James Rapeene and Paul. Among the different things we have discussed was how Zach Taylor was kind of revealing yesterday about the process that goes into executing the draft while it's unfolding. Yeah, I mean, I think it's fascinating because, I mean, teams do do things differently and the Bengals are built a little bit differently, but you know they when you get into that room, it's mostly done. There's especially on Thursday night. Yeah, there's really I think there's this idea that there's action. It's incredibly Thursday Night's incredibly boring in there because if there's anything that they have done and put to bed, it's the order of what's gonna happen in round one, like one through eighteen, and really the same for up the forty. You get way more action on day two because you get a lot more trades are involved a whole day. Teams have recalibrated their boards and things have changed, but Day one has been so structured. You know where you would trade to, you know who you would talk to. You probably have things set in place. If you're gonna move, you know who you're gonna take, and what that order is. If it gets to that, so it becomes almost like, Okay, get this out of the way. I would want to be in there on day two. That is the most action pack day. Everybody has needs that they're trying to fill, things that they're reacting to. Everybody's trying to move. That to me is the day that is the ultimate where where you know, that's where you win and loose in this league is accomplishing your goals with those Friday picks. And I think that will be how this draft will absolutely be judged for the Bengals this year, just because of the way they're set up the extra pick, their ability to move up and down if they want to, and their needs that they have at very important positions. I think that is the most fascinating day and we'll see how they handle it. We talked about Byron Murphy and what they would do if he's there at eighteen and sign me up for taking him fills an obvious need. Uh, Why don't I feel very good about what they could do with defensive tackle later in the draft if he's not there? Well, because there isn't any I mean there's there's not There's not a ton of players that no one's really gonna bring you that that's where those guys go there. Yeah. Have we talked so much about Byron Murphy that we make the other guys seem like they just totally suck? No, I don't think they any. I don't think it do so, I think it's closed. I don't know that he is the top of their board. I mean, I'm just a lot of people like Newton more. Yeah, some people like and that's fine. I just you know, that's great. I mean, you can get He's he will bring you all the pass rush you want to. I mean, that's that's what you're looking for. There's not as much of the other stuff there as Murphy gives you a little more versatility, a little more against the run, but you know, pass rushing from inside is as valuable as it gets, so I I think you can accomplish. They have put themselves into a position a little bit where yeah, you're not you're not gonna get what you want after that. There's because there's that's where those guys go. I think they can piece it together after that. I think there's plenty of guys that that could come in here, but there's just not a lot of history in this league of players coming from where the Bengals will pick in round two around three and coming in and having big time impact, and they kind of need some impact big That's the thing. It's they put. They put themselves in this spot, and that's why that feeling exists. My question was not so much about the lack of talent, for lack of a better way of putting it. After Byron Murphy, it's the position the Bengals are in and what they've done to themselves specifically at that spot. Yeah, I think they would. You don't ever want to feel like you have an obvious need, and I think that they've done some certainly too. It doesn't feel that way. I mean with Rankins and Hilly, they need bodies, but it doesn't feel like they are just a disaster there. But they need pieces. I mean, they need more in there, and they need it for this year and they need it for the future. You don't ever want to have even that feeling. But that doesn't mean, you know, there's plenty of players that they could sit here and grab Chris Jenkins at forty nine and everyone will by the time they pick the fourth round, everyone will already be sold that he's the answer and that was the best thing that could have happened. Yeah, or any number of these guys that do have potential that you take in the second round and they're part of a rotation and you can find a way to make it work, and then they'll take another one on Day three that can come in and be the new Josh Tupo and you can see how it all fits together. Is that gonna be enough to slow down Travis Henry or I'm sorry, Derek Henry. Derek Travis Henry school reference like that, Dereck Henry, Sure job? I think I mean I don't think you have Baltimore overall running game. Yeah, okay, I mean I maybe I think you don't have You don't have to have DJ reader to stop the run. You know, you can find other ways to do it. Lou Anamo will be in charge of scheming that up. They had DJ Reader last year and they didn't stop the run very well. I don't disagree with that. I think that's partially on lou Ana Romo's lap. Is you got to figure out how to do this? Is there a new way that you got to construct it? What is that fits always comes back to run fits? Isn't it run fit practice? Can we put you You've often talked about jobs that you would like to hold at the Bengals. Could we make you like director of run fits and just have you run drills helping everyone with their run fits? Like? Is that? Can I make this? Can we find a way to produce this maybe, But I just I have you know, we were talking about like nightmare scenarios. Mine is we get to like five or six weeks in and they're getting beaten up upfront and teams are running up and down against them, and I listen to analysts talk about run fits. Yeah, whenever I'm hearing somebody talk about run fits, first of all, I get really bored very quickly. Second, nobody ever talks about unfits when they're stopping the run, right, not a lot of run fit columns being written when they're stopping the run. Yeah. I haven't gotten a whole lot of clicks on my gap discipline story. You know. So if we get to October and you and I are talking about run fits, I'm gonna go back to the draft in the entire offseason and go could have fixed it? To fix it? No, I've set it up a bunch of times. I think it's the one criticism of how free agency unfolded with them is that they didn't have one more guy in there that feels solid, disserviceable right to kind of be in that mix. And we'll see if they can find a way to get this in the draft. But I mean, that's what's in front of them. That's why it's important. That's why day two is important. If they don't get that on day one, is they got pinpoint that and find it. More of that conversation available on the iHeartRadio app, also the podcast page of ESPN fifteen thirty dot com. We did it, Arran, we did it, perfect show in the books. It's taken long enough. We'll see if we can do it again tomorrow. Probably not. Kelsey Conway, Mike Renner among our guests tomorrow. Have a great night. Thanks to Tarren Bland for producing. Thanks to you for listening. Have a great night. This is ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati sports station. This report is sponsored