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0:30

Hey, guys. Melissa here before this

0:32

episode gets started. Just wanted to let you know

0:34

we have decided to change things

0:37

around in this episode. We were originally

0:39

going to release another episode, but

0:41

just didn't have everything together for it, and

0:43

we didn't feel really good about putting it out there.

0:45

So instead, we are going back

0:47

into the vault, back to March twenty

0:50

twenty. Does anybody remember March

0:52

twenty twenty? There's a chance you might

0:54

not have listened to this episode because I don't

0:56

know, you might have been busy with something

0:58

else during March of twenty

1:00

twenty. So we wanted to rerelease this

1:02

episode. It's the murder of Larry

1:04

McNabney, and we actually have an update.

1:07

And this up date is from Patreon back

1:09

a few months ago. And so we we're

1:11

gonna include that at the end of the episode.

1:14

So you'll hear the episode and you

1:16

will hear the update, which is

1:18

really wild. We also have

1:20

our recorded intro from this week and

1:22

the outro. So those happened

1:25

in twenty twenty two, the year of our lord.

1:27

The other part is from March twenty twenty.

1:30

So if you have any questions, I don't know

1:32

why I would ask if you had any questions, but if you do, I

1:34

guess you could email us. Otherwise, just

1:36

listen to the episode. See

1:37

you guys next week.

2:02

Hey, guys, and welcome to the Mom's and

2:04

Murder podcast. a True Crime

2:06

Podcast

2:06

featuring myself, Mandy, and

2:08

my dear friend, Melissa. Hi, Melissa. Hi, Melissa.

2:10

Hi, How are you?

2:12

I'm wonderful feeling

2:15

a little bit older and a little bit wiser.

2:18

Does that just happen? It just happened.

2:20

It just was overnight for me.

2:23

I feel like I'm a few years behind on any

2:25

sort of wisdom. My birthdays have brought they've

2:27

got some pains in different parts of

2:29

my body, but good for you. Glad you're

2:31

feeling wiser. Yeah. Just a little

2:33

bit. Just a little bit. Yeah. And I'm really excited

2:35

to be getting into December. It is

2:38

just truly the most wonderful time of

2:40

year for me and for a lot of people. So I'm

2:42

really excited now that we're

2:43

kinda into the holidays. It always comes up fast,

2:45

but then I'm always like, Okay. I'm

2:47

actually okay with this. I like the month

2:49

of December.

2:50

Yeah. It's it's a great one. Speaking

2:53

of the end of the year and New Year,

2:55

kind of, I think that's kind of where you were going.

2:57

Yes. Mandy, we have a little bit of an announcement.

2:59

It's not a big announcement. Nobody

3:01

read too much into this, but Mandy, we are

3:04

Updating our name -- We are in the New Year.

3:06

-- we are glowing up. We 00I

3:10

like it. So we are gonna be

3:12

no longer moms and murderers. We are in

3:14

our hearts, but we're gonna be moms

3:16

and mysteries. Yay!

3:20

moms and miss series. Yeah.

3:22

I like it. I do too. Well, I hope

3:24

so because it's really our first

3:25

time speaking it out loud.

3:27

we're speaking it into existence in the

3:30

world. Yeah. You guys are the first to know.

3:32

Really? Like, nobody knows. We've kept

3:34

it kind of under wraps, but we're super

3:36

excited about it. We've always done cases.

3:38

We've we've covered murders, but we've also

3:40

done kind of mysterious things. And

3:43

it just seemed like the right direction for us to

3:45

go in. Wouldn't you say?

3:46

Absolutely. Yeah. And honestly, I

3:49

feel like it's like you said, it's really not even that

3:51

big of a deal. So nothing to be alarmed

3:53

about. It is kind of like a little bittersweet

3:55

to say, kinda goodbye to the name moms in

3:57

murder. But like you said, we're always we're

3:59

always the moms and always moms murder

4:01

in our hearts. But, yes, I am super excited

4:03

to kind of start off the new year with

4:05

the new name of moms in mysteries.

4:08

I think that'll be a good thing for everybody

4:10

going forward. You guys are gonna get, like, the same kind

4:12

of content we've always had with just

4:14

a little bit of a different name. Yeah.

4:16

Truly, that's all it is. So we've actually

4:18

talked about this even with our kids like hearing

4:20

my son at three say moms and murder. It

4:22

was a little hard so we thought we'd give you moms

4:24

a break so they don't have to say, are you listening to

4:26

mom's murder and you feel kinda bad about it?

4:28

So think of us, it is us doing it

4:30

for you. This is our service to you

4:32

going on New Year. You don't you no longer

4:34

have to be ashamed to listen to us. I mean,

4:36

you should be a little ashamed, but not that much.

4:38

You don't have to be ashamed to say that you

4:40

Yes. I'm very capable. There

4:43

you go. So January first, that will change. If

4:45

you're subscribed, you won't notice

4:47

anything. Our logo looks the same.

4:49

We literally changed the word. Everything

4:52

else is the same. So no big deal. We

4:54

are getting two new hosts. I'm just kidding.

4:56

It's still us. So if you're okay with

4:58

us, then we'll

5:00

be ready for January. So, Mandy, are

5:02

you ready to get into this week's story?

5:04

I am. Okay. So this week's

5:07

episode. You know, we were off last week,

5:09

and that

5:10

was a nice little break for us. But now we're back

5:12

at it this week. And I'm super excited

5:14

about this week's episode. I think

5:16

a lot of people will really enjoy this

5:18

story because there's a lot of fascinating elements

5:21

that kinda go along with it. And

5:23

that's really something that I think appeals to a lot of

5:25

true crime lovers. And me in particular, I

5:27

love the stories that have

5:29

a lot of things going on with a one

5:31

particular person where they have a

5:33

really crazy background or

5:35

a lot of different details about their life. So that

5:37

is the case in this week's

5:39

episode. And so all of

5:41

the dynamics of the relationships in

5:43

this story, everything kind of

5:45

led up to this main

5:47

event, which was the death of a

5:49

well known attorney in Reno, Nevada

5:52

named Larry McNabney. And

5:54

before we get into this story this week, we're

5:56

going to tell you a little about Reno

5:58

in this week segment of we googled

5:59

this city. So while you're home

6:02

and quarantined, here are some facts you

6:04

can share with whoever you are socially

6:06

distancing with. And trust me, after

6:08

a week, you'll actually love these

6:10

facts, guys. It's finally

6:12

Googled the city's time to shine.

6:14

This is just useless information that you can

6:16

throw with whoever you're stuck a hole with. Okay.

6:18

Here we go. Reno is located in Nevada

6:20

and has a population of around two hundred and

6:22

forty eight thousand as of the two thousand seventeen

6:24

census. Nevada is actually

6:26

the largest state that produces gold in

6:28

the US. It's only second

6:30

in the world behind South Africa, and

6:33

this fact isn't funny, but if you're playing

6:35

trivial pursuit during quarantine, you're

6:37

welcome. The video for one of my favorite

6:39

eighties songs take me home tonight by

6:41

Eddie Money was film to Reno. If

6:43

the song was to be updated to today, it

6:45

may be named, take me

6:47

anywhere but home tonight. And

6:51

lastly, Reno is the birthplace to BlueJeans.

6:54

That's right. Back in eighteen seventy, somebody

6:56

asked a tailor by the name of Jacob Davis

6:58

which does not sound like a very eighteen seventies

7:00

name, does it? Sounds like somebody

7:03

who'd be in your kids class today. But

7:05

they asked Jacob Davis if he was able to make a

7:07

pair of pants that were a little sturdier.

7:09

Davis took the challenge on and added copper

7:12

rivets to his design, impaired with Levi

7:14

Strauss to finance his pattern,

7:16

and that's how he got jeans. So

7:18

next time you wear your favorite pair of jeans,

7:20

think of young Jacob. Without him,

7:22

we wouldn't have jeans nor would we have

7:24

timeless hits like babies got

7:26

her blue jeans on by Mel McDaniel

7:28

or Blue Denim by Steve

7:30

Nicks. And who could forget the classic

7:32

Apple Bottom jeans from my hometown

7:34

hero, T Pain. So

7:37

Jacob, today and every day, we

7:39

put on our boots with the fur, and

7:41

thank you. from the apple bottom

7:43

of our hearts.

7:44

Go ahead, Sandy. So

7:46

when you hear the words personal

7:49

injury attorney, you probably know

7:51

the name of at least one in your local

7:53

area. Thanks to the catchy

7:55

commercials that many of them have. Here in

7:57

Central Florida, the one that comes to mind

7:59

first for me is John Morgan and probably

8:01

is the same case for you, Melissa. Morgan and

8:03

Morgan

8:03

for the people.

8:04

We also have another guy Dan Newland

8:06

who is not quite on John

8:08

Morgan's level, but he is still one that I hear

8:10

about a lot. So if you lived in

8:12

or near Reno before two thousand

8:14

one, there's a chance that you may have heard the

8:16

name Larry McNabney before.

8:19

Larry was well known in Las Vegas

8:21

and the surrounding area for his commercials

8:23

where he would wear a cowboy hat and

8:25

he would to the camera while riding on a

8:27

horse and, you know, pushing

8:29

his legal services. He

8:32

became known as the Marlboro man and he

8:34

was famous for taking high profile

8:36

cases. Larry's

8:38

journey to becoming a famous personal

8:40

injury attorney began on December

8:42

nineteenth, nineteen forty eight when he was born

8:44

to his parents, Marie and Jim. As

8:46

a child, he experienced the unimaginable

8:49

loss of both his brother and

8:51

his father. His older brother had returned from

8:53

Vietnam and sadly succumbed to a

8:55

drug addiction and eventually died of an

8:57

overdose. Just three

8:59

months later, Larry's grief circum

9:01

father took his own life. In

9:04

nineteen sixty six, Larry graduated from

9:06

Reno High School and went on to

9:08

attend the University of Nevada

9:10

Reno. He obtained a bachelor's degree

9:12

from the university in nineteen

9:14

seventy. Larry then attended

9:16

law school at the University

9:18

of the Pacific's McGeorge school

9:20

of law, and in nineteen seventy four,

9:22

he graduated near the top of his class.

9:25

Over the next several years, Larry would

9:27

marry in divorce three times. And

9:29

he also had three children named

9:31

Kristen, Tavia, and Joseph.

9:33

With no problem at all, Larry passed

9:35

the bar both California and

9:37

Nevada and took a job working for the

9:39

deputy public defender for Washoe

9:41

County. A few years later, Larry

9:43

branched out on his own and started a partnership

9:45

with Ron Jay Bath, and the

9:47

two made a name for themselves representing

9:49

clients in high profile criminal

9:51

cases. Larry

9:53

was great at his job as a

9:55

lawyer, thanks to his high spirited and

9:57

organized personality and the

9:59

confidence that he

9:59

brought to the table. It was said

10:02

that he commanded the courtroom

10:04

and that he was a consummate

10:06

professional. By nineteen eighty five,

10:08

Larry's career had risen him to the level of being

10:10

a special deputy district

10:12

attorney, and he was a defense attorney in two

10:14

of Nevada's most infamous cases.

10:16

The first was the Harvey Casino

10:18

bombing trial where Larry was part of the team

10:20

that represented John Berge's senior, a

10:22

man who had gambled all of his money away

10:24

at a Harvey's hotel casino in Lake Tahoe

10:26

and decided to plant a

10:28

quote unquote doomsday bomb

10:30

in order to get back at the hotel. Once

10:32

the bomb was planted, John sent a letter

10:34

to the casino that stated that the bomb could

10:36

not be moved or disabled. but if they

10:38

met his demands, he would tell them how to

10:40

disable it. On August

10:42

twenty seventh nineteen eighty, John was

10:44

attempting to disarm the bomb when he

10:46

accidentally set it off. causing

10:48

twelve million dollars in damage enforcing

10:50

the hotel to close its stores for nearly

10:52

a year. But luckily, no one

10:55

was injured in this event. The other high

10:57

profile case that Lara was a part of was

10:59

the company drug cartel trial.

11:01

He and more than ten other

11:03

defense attorneys defended the twelve people who

11:05

ran the interstate drug cartel. This

11:07

particular cartel, the

11:09

company, which is kind of a

11:11

lame name for, for

11:14

being no disrespect cartel, but I

11:16

just think you could have done better. The

11:18

company used violence in their multimillion

11:21

dollar operation in which they made and sold

11:23

methamphetamine and operated a large

11:25

marijuana plantation in Northern California.

11:27

The cartel had attempted to kill a

11:29

US forest service employee as well

11:31

as fired shots at police helicopters and

11:33

planned the killings of state and federal

11:35

narcotics agents and witnesses. They'd

11:38

also killed a disloyal member and made attempts

11:40

to kill two others who had done the company

11:42

wrong. I take back everything I said

11:44

about their name. So the trial

11:46

began in January of nineteen eighty eight and

11:48

ended up blasting over sixteen

11:51

months. The trial was so lengthy

11:53

that there were over thirty thousand pages

11:55

of trans scripts and the prosecution presented thousands

11:57

of exhibits into evidence, including

11:59

proof of over two

11:59

thousand narcotics transactions over an

12:02

eleven year period. At

12:04

the time, this was one of the longest federal drug

12:06

trials in history. And it

12:08

was really hard on Larry. He told the Los Angeles

12:11

Times quote, If I would have known it was

12:13

going to go this long, I wouldn't have taken

12:15

the case. I've gotten a divorce during

12:17

this trial. I've gone through a of personal

12:19

changes. I'm not saying it's directly the

12:21

result of this trial, but the pressure has

12:23

sped things up. I think I'm gonna

12:25

quit practicing after this is over.

12:27

Seriously, Maybe I'll play the flute

12:29

or take a year off and do nothing.

12:31

If I never set foot into a courtroom

12:33

again after this, it will be

12:35

too soon. so he

12:37

did not enjoy. Yeah. That

12:39

was a rough sixteen months. That is

12:41

so much time to to

12:43

do anything? Anything

12:45

any one thing for sixteen months? Oh my

12:47

goodness. That would be really grueling. I feel like,

12:50

especially with a a case like that where it's

12:52

a cartel and there's like a lot of attorneys

12:54

are involved, and yeah, sixteen months would be a

12:56

really long time. Yeah.

12:58

So when the company drew a cartel

13:00

trial finally came to an end in May of nineteen

13:02

eighty nine, and all twelve defendants were

13:04

convicted of sixty five of the seventy

13:06

one counts against them. Larry made

13:08

good on his word in a quick practicing law for

13:10

the next three years. It

13:12

was nineteen ninety two when

13:14

he opened his first personal injury law

13:17

office in Reno, and he would eventually go on

13:19

to open offices in Las Vegas

13:21

and Elko Nevada. In

13:23

nineteen ninety five, Larry put an ad in the paper

13:25

for help around the law office, and that's

13:27

when he met the woman who would change the rest of

13:29

his life. In July

13:31

of that year, twenty nine year old,

13:33

Elisa Baroche, responded to the

13:35

help wanted ad, and after being

13:37

incredibly impressed with her interview, Larry

13:39

hired her on the spot. He

13:42

really thought that Alisa was nothing

13:44

short of amazing. He told

13:46

his daughter, Tavia, that Alisa

13:48

was brilliant and bright and

13:50

that she handled things and helped really

13:52

take a load off of his shoulders. On

13:55

top of being extremely

13:57

intelligent. Her IQ was allegedly a

13:59

hundred and forty. She also had a

14:01

very charming and bubbly personality and

14:03

a friendly smile. Elisa

14:06

also had a daughter named Haley,

14:08

but it was unclear from the research in

14:10

this case when Larry actually

14:12

learned about this little girl But at the

14:14

time that Alyssa was hired to the

14:16

firm, Haley was living somewhere else

14:18

and not with her mom. But we are going to

14:20

get more into Haley

14:22

and where she was in just a little

14:25

bit. So once Alisa had settled

14:27

down into her new job at the law firm,

14:29

It didn't take very long before the

14:31

relationship between she and Larry

14:33

went from being a professional one to a

14:35

personal one. after

14:37

they kind of learned to be their shared

14:40

interest in wine and horses, the two

14:42

started dating and those around them

14:44

could see that they were really happy

14:46

together. although some of Larry's

14:48

friends and family did think there

14:50

was something off about

14:52

Alyssa that they couldn't really put their finger

14:54

on. they could tell that Larry

14:56

was really happy, but Larry's daughter

14:58

felt that Alisa put a wedge

15:00

between her and her father. And she

15:02

said that She wasn't allowed to call him anymore or

15:04

see him whenever she wanted to.

15:06

But she could tell and she knew that

15:08

her dad cared for Alyssa, so she didn't bring

15:10

it up or wanna start an argument

15:12

over it or to ruin her dad's, you

15:14

know, the the great time that he was having.

15:17

Larry hadn't always had

15:19

the best luck with women. As we

15:21

mentioned earlier, he had already been married and

15:23

divorced a few times. And one of the

15:25

reasons that his relationships in the past

15:27

had failed was partly due to the

15:29

fact that Larry struggled with alcohol

15:31

addiction at different points in his

15:33

life. One friend

15:35

of Larry's said that from time to time,

15:37

Larry would disappear on alcohol

15:39

binges and not show up again for

15:41

weeks. He said quote,

15:43

it was like a void he was trying to fill

15:45

and he never could fill. Those

15:47

in Larry's life were

15:50

really happy that he had found Alyssa, and

15:52

that he cared for her so much. And they

15:54

didn't wanna interfere even though

15:56

there were what some might

15:58

call red flags.

16:00

So for one thing, people noticed

16:02

that Elisa was never really interested in

16:04

talking about her past. One

16:06

of the attorneys that the couple knew

16:08

was named Tom Mitchell. And

16:10

he said that it was one of those situations

16:13

where you would ask Alyssa

16:15

something simple like where she went to

16:17

high school And the next thing you know, she

16:19

would be talking to you about skiing.

16:22

But Larry was enamored with

16:24

Elisa. Within two months of

16:26

starting her job at the law firm, Larry had

16:28

already bought Alyssa a new

16:30

red jaguar. He even bought

16:32

a stable of horses and the to

16:34

begin riding in competitions and

16:36

attending horse shows. Of course, Larry already

16:38

had this previous love of horses

16:40

as demonstrated in his

16:42

commercials that he used for his law firm.

16:44

At some point in late

16:46

nineteen ninety five, Elisa decided to

16:49

bring her or Hayley to Reno to

16:51

stay with her and Larry. The

16:53

couple was doing really well both in the office

16:55

and at home until there was

16:57

a little pickup in December of

16:59

nineteen ninety five. And we're

17:01

going to get right into what happened

17:03

after a quick break for

17:04

a word from this week's sponsors.

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really that simple. I was going through our family

18:58

group chat the other day and I just love seeing

19:00

these photos of my kids that my in

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laws are so quick to comment

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And now back

19:56

to the episode.

19:59

So

19:59

before the break, we were

20:01

starting to get into the relation ship

20:04

dynamic in life that Larry and

20:06

Alisa McNaughtony had and how things have

20:08

been going very well for the new couple up

20:10

until December of nineteen ninety

20:12

five. It was at that time that Larry's law

20:14

firm was audited, and Larry found out that

20:16

Alisa had embezzled seventy four thousand

20:18

dollars from a trust account for one

20:20

of Larry's clients. This was obviously a

20:23

huge deal for Larry and for his

20:25

reputation. He was publicly

20:27

reprimanded and had to pay back the

20:29

embezzled money. plus the cost of the

20:31

disciplinary actions, and he was ordered to

20:33

take two hours of legal ethics

20:35

education. At the end of

20:37

the ordeal, Elise was no longer allowed to be a

20:39

signatory on any trust accounts in any of

20:41

Larry's law offices in Nevada.

20:43

It seemed like most people would probably consider

20:45

this a relationship deal breaker, but that

20:48

wasn't the case here. The following

20:50

month on January sixth, nineteen ninety

20:52

six, Larry and Alyssa got married

20:54

in Reno. Following the shotgun

20:56

wedding, the new couple packed up and left for

20:58

Sacramento, California, where Larry opened a

21:00

new law firm and a couple resumed their

21:02

wine and horse hobbies and their

21:04

new locale. Once a new

21:06

firm was up and running in California,

21:08

Larry put an ad in the paper for a

21:10

position earning three thousand dollars a month as a

21:12

part time legal secretary. Since

21:14

they were now in California, Alyssa can once again be the

21:17

signatory on trust accounts. That's

21:19

a lot of faith.

21:21

to -- Yeah. -- get someone who just got you in a

21:23

lot of trouble. Yeah. Right?

21:25

Like, a ton of trouble. You think you just

21:27

say, like, there's no reason for you to

21:29

be on there. I trust you, but, like, you don't have to

21:31

be on there. I don't need you to sign anything. Yeah.

21:34

It does seem weird. Like, especially

21:36

after there's already been this, like, huge

21:38

incident that cost him a lot of money. And,

21:41

yeah, like, drug his name through the mud kind

21:43

of by by letting this happen.

21:45

So I think it's crazy

21:47

that, you know, that you would ever give

21:49

somebody. Oh, he says a lot about their relationships.

21:51

Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. III mean, because

21:53

it doesn't make any sense otherwise. So

21:55

soon after the ad for a legal secretary went up, a

21:57

woman named Sarah Dutra turned up for

21:59

an

21:59

interview. Sarah

22:00

was a young and bubbly woman who had

22:03

only just graduated high school in

22:05

nineteen ninety eight. At the time she

22:07

applied for the job at Larry's law firm, she was

22:09

studying art at California State

22:11

University. She loved attending school and

22:13

wanted to go to graduate school right after she

22:15

finished her degree. Larry decided to hire

22:17

Sarah to work at the firm. Despite there

22:19

being nearly a decade between them,

22:22

Alyssa and Sarah hit it off immediately.

22:24

Their relationship in the office

22:26

and at work soon grew into a

22:29

friendship outside of work, and

22:31

rather quickly, the two women

22:33

became inseparable besties.

22:35

It was around this time that Alyssa first

22:38

started really taking advantage of Leary

22:40

and the money that he had.

22:42

She would take Sarah on these expensive

22:45

shopping sprees, and they would buy a lot of

22:47

matching clothes, mostly

22:49

Gucci outfits, and they would

22:51

charge all of this Solaris card. The

22:53

women pretty much became attached at

22:55

the hip and started doing

22:57

absolutely everything together. And

22:59

Sarah even started traveling to

23:01

horse shows, that Larry and Alyssa would go

23:03

on even if they were out of town for the

23:05

weekend. So as you can

23:07

imagine, there was some serious tension

23:09

between Larry and Sarah, and neither of

23:11

them like each other and both of them were very vocal

23:13

about it. But of course, Larry

23:15

was in a tough position and

23:17

he know he felt like

23:19

Sarah had just kind of barge her way right

23:21

into his life and into his marriage, and

23:23

he really wanted her out of the picture.

23:25

But he was scared of what Elise's

23:28

reaction would be if he were to just fire

23:30

Sarah. So of course,

23:32

Sarah didn't like Larry either because

23:35

she pretty much just perceived him as her,

23:37

you know, BFF's annoying husband

23:40

and just kind of would rather

23:41

spend her time

23:43

with and not have to

23:45

worry about him. So it got to a

23:47

point where Sarah and Alisa were literally

23:50

spending all of their free time with

23:52

each other. the relationship between them

23:54

was so intense that many people

23:56

actually felt like if you were to look at them from the

23:58

outside, you would think that they were the ones in a

23:59

relationship with each other. It

24:02

was clear to the outsiders that Sarah

24:05

really dominated Alisa in their relationship,

24:08

and she was behind a lot of the decisions that

24:10

Alisa made, especially as

24:12

pertain to buying things. On

24:15

September tenth two thousand one, Larry

24:17

and Alisa loaded up their

24:19

horses and headed to horror

24:21

horse show in Los Angeles for the

24:23

weekend. It just so happened

24:25

that Elise's daughter, Hailey,

24:27

was away at a horseback riding

24:29

school in May that month. so it worked

24:31

perfectly for Alisa and Larry to get away.

24:34

Sarah actually showed up at the hotel

24:36

that the couple was staying at, which

24:38

irritated Larry, although It

24:40

really was nothing unusual at this point and he was used

24:42

to Sarah being the constant third wheel

24:45

in his marriage. So Larry

24:47

and Dolls in alcohol on this

24:49

trip even though he had previously given

24:51

up drinking and it is believed

24:53

that an argument ensued between him

24:55

and Sarah and Alyssa. The next

24:57

mornings have September eleventh two

24:59

thousand one. As we all know,

25:01

things were very hectic across the

25:03

entire country. Word

25:05

traveled quickly about the terrorist attack on the World

25:07

Trade Center and the Pentagon that killed nearly

25:10

three thousand people and injured up to six

25:12

thousand more. In

25:14

the midst of all chaos, the McNaughnessy and

25:17

Seradutra checked out of the

25:19

hotel and headed back to

25:21

Sacramento. Life at the office resumed as usual

25:23

except for one thing. Larry

25:25

never returned to work after that weekend

25:27

in LA, but it would be several weeks

25:29

before anyone would catch on that

25:31

something was wrong. Alyssa, with the help

25:33

of Sarah, ran Larry's law office as

25:35

if he were still there, negotiating with

25:38

lawyers and spending settlement money

25:40

that came in from personal injury clients. She

25:42

also hired a new employee named

25:44

Ginger Miller. Having ginger around to

25:46

help with the office task would free

25:49

Alyssa and Sarah up to do more Gallavanting.

25:51

When Larry's family and friends started

25:53

asking where she was, Alyssa said that

25:55

he was really just too sick to

25:58

see anyone. including his own

26:00

children. When clients of Larry

26:02

started looking for him, Alyssa told him that he

26:04

was making a lot of out of town

26:06

court appearances. At first, Noam was

26:08

really alarmed that Larry wasn't available.

26:10

After all, he was a really busy attorney

26:12

and those who knew him personally

26:14

also knew about his past drunken vendors

26:16

and thought that this was really just par for the

26:18

course for Larry. But after a

26:21

month with no sign of Larry, his

26:23

kids started to question Elise's story and they really started to

26:25

think that she may have been lying about their

26:27

father's whereabouts. So they

26:29

decided to hire a private investigator to

26:31

help them find their father. Larry's

26:34

daughter Tavia said, quote, what was

26:36

strange to us was the length of time that she was

26:38

saying dad was gone, that he was in

26:40

places he wouldn't have been, end

26:43

quote. Unfortunately though, the PI was unable to

26:45

locate Larry. Around this

26:47

time, a Haley returned from horseback

26:50

riding school And when she asked where Larry

26:52

was, Alyssa said that she and Larry had

26:54

separated and that Larry had gone off to join a

26:56

religious cult, which is a

26:58

very specific. reason, but it's so

27:00

specific that you'd almost think like,

27:02

okay, you know, it it that

27:04

seems so out out there in a way, but then

27:06

you'd just be like, what? There's no real follow-up

27:09

questions. It's

27:09

not like I don't know. It's one

27:11

of those

27:11

lies is so specific, you'd Okay. That

27:14

just makes sense. So in the meantime,

27:16

Alyssa was drastically changing her

27:18

look. Between September and late November,

27:20

she dropped thirty pounds, lightened

27:22

her hair to a more blonde color, and

27:24

started dressing as if she were ten years

27:27

younger. By the end of that year, Elisa had begun to sell

27:29

off Larry's assets and give away his personal

27:32

items. In total, she had

27:34

around five hundred thousand dollars worth of

27:36

Larry's stuff. and she wasn't

27:38

using the money to keep the office up and

27:40

running. She was letting those

27:42

payments get behind and eventually she had

27:44

no choice but to run

27:45

the firm from home. At the end

27:48

of

27:48

November two thousand one, Ginger Miller,

27:50

who was the woman that Alisa hired

27:52

to help in the office, became

27:54

very suspicious that maybe there

27:56

was no Larry at all.

27:58

She had been told by Alyssa and

28:00

Sarah to give several different planations as

28:02

to Leary's whereabouts, and she started to think that

28:04

it was really weird that after working there

28:07

for a month, she had actually never

28:09

met

28:09

the owner. During this

28:11

time, of course, ginger noticed a

28:14

lot of shocking and unethical

28:16

behavior happening around the office.

28:18

For instance, Elisa

28:20

and Sarah were forging Larry's signature

28:22

on checks and documents and

28:25

pretending that he were the one to actually

28:27

sign them. As far as

28:29

ginger could tell, none of this added up

28:31

to anything good and she decided

28:33

to secretly go to the police with

28:35

her suspicions. At first, the police

28:37

didn't really seem too concerned about Larry's

28:39

disappearance, and they thought maybe

28:41

he fled to escape the debt that he

28:44

was in. but they kept in

28:46

touch with Ginger and asked her to continue

28:48

working in the office and keep giving them

28:50

any information that she might

28:52

learn. Police eventually called Alisa

28:54

to discuss where her husband was

28:56

and ginger remembered that this

28:58

call really freaked Alisa out

29:01

And suddenly, Alyssa announced that she was

29:03

going to be attending a horse show

29:05

in Arizona. So she loaded

29:07

a bunch of her belongings into

29:10

her horse trailer and she hired somebody to move the trailer

29:12

to Arizona for her. But

29:15

unfortunately, Ginger had already tipped off the

29:17

police about Elise's plan to

29:19

leave town and they were waiting for her when she finished

29:21

loading her trailer. Somehow,

29:24

Alyssa caught on that the police were watching her

29:26

and she managed to escape

29:29

before they were able to catch up with her. She

29:31

took off in her brand new red jaguar

29:33

on January eleventh two thousand

29:36

two. Later that same day,

29:38

Larry's son Joe reported him missing

29:40

as well. By the time Larry's son

29:42

Joe had reported his father missing on

29:44

January eleventh two thousand two,

29:46

they were already investigating Larry's wife,

29:49

Alisa. Police were tipped off that Alisa

29:51

had plans to leave town and that she had

29:53

loaded her belongings into a horse

29:55

trailer that she appeared to be using as moving truck.

29:57

When police showed up

29:57

to move in on Alyssa, she fled in

29:59

her

29:59

new Jaguar. The first

30:02

person that police wanted to question

30:04

once Alisa left town was Sarah Dutra.

30:06

Sarah really downplayed her relationship with

30:08

Alisa quite a bit but

30:10

she did admit that they had become close friends after she

30:12

began working at the law office. She

30:15

told police that Alyssa had become more

30:17

erratic when Larry disappeared and

30:19

said that she began to miss more work

30:21

than usual. Sarah

30:23

also alleged that at some point in early January

30:25

of two thousand two, Elise invited

30:27

her along to attend this horse show

30:29

in Arizona since Larry wasn't around to

30:31

go. Alyssa allegedly told

30:33

Sarah that her ticket was paid for, but when

30:35

Sarah got to the airport, she learned that

30:37

she did not have a ticket in her

30:39

name And when she tried to call Alisa, her phone was

30:42

disconnected. Sarah told police she hadn't heard a

30:44

thing from Alisa since then.

30:46

The investigators already knew that Sarah and Alisa had

30:48

a much closer relationship than she was

30:50

leading on, and they believed that Sarah probably

30:54

still knew more information than she was giving them,

30:56

but they had nothing to hold on her so

30:58

they let her go. A short

31:00

time later on February fifth two thousand

31:03

two, An employee at San Joaquin Vineyard

31:05

spotted something that would provide a huge

31:07

break in this case. Sticking

31:09

up out of the ground near a grapevine

31:11

was a human leg. It was

31:13

Larry's body. Detectives

31:15

and crime scene technicians swarmed in

31:17

to process the scene and to take Larry's

31:19

remains in for an autopsy. The

31:21

initial exam revealed no clues as

31:23

to how or why Larry had

31:25

died. There were no external signs of

31:27

trauma to suggest a cause of death. thing

31:29

that was puzzling was that Larry's body wasn't

31:31

as decompose as it should have been if he

31:33

had been dead since September, which was now over

31:35

three months before. It was

31:37

body been somehow kept cold all this

31:40

time and that whoever had buried it at the

31:42

vineyard had done so recently. Once

31:45

Larry's body had been discovered, his family held

31:47

his funeral on February sixteenth

31:49

two thousand two at Rossburg and

31:51

Noble Mortuary in Reno.

31:54

Further testing from Larry's autopsy later

31:57

revealed his cause of death. He

31:59

died of an overdose,

32:01

but not maybe what you might

32:03

think of first, he actually overdosed

32:05

on horse tranquilizers. So

32:07

now that the police had a

32:10

body and a cause of death, they

32:12

focused their efforts on solving Leary's murder. Friends

32:15

of Leary and Alisa as well

32:17

as family of Leary's told the police

32:20

that THEY HAD CONCERNS AND SUSPICIANS ABOUT A

32:22

LISA FROM THE BEGINNING, BUT THEY

32:24

WERE ALL ANERVED BY HOW

32:26

SHE BEHAVE SINCE LARY

32:28

HAD BEEN LAST SEEN. Elisa

32:30

had been selling all of Larry's assets, and

32:32

police agreed that this was suspicious, and

32:35

they really moved Elisa to the top of

32:37

their suspect list. the

32:40

more people that the detectives talk to,

32:42

the more alarm they were by what they were

32:44

hearing. One acquaintance

32:46

that the couple knew from horse shows named

32:49

Evan Reeves, told police that while they were at a horse

32:51

show in Susanville, California,

32:53

Elisa casually just asked him if

32:55

it were possible to kill a person

32:57

with horse tranquilizers. It wasn't

33:00

long before an all out manhunt was

33:02

underway to locate a Lisa, but they

33:04

were stopped in their tracks pretty early on when

33:06

they realized that there was actually no

33:09

such person as Elisa Police

33:11

could find no record

33:13

or driver's license, no Social

33:15

Security number, or trace of anyone

33:18

by that name ever even existing.

33:21

Detectives soon stormed the

33:23

Larry's law office but when they arrived, it was

33:25

empty and there was no sign of Alyssa,

33:27

but they did still have the horse trailer full of

33:29

her belongings to search through.

33:31

Everything inside this trailer was really thrown in

33:34

haphazardly, but upon searching through it, they

33:36

located a file that had the

33:38

name, Laren Renee Sims

33:40

Jordan. When they looked up that

33:42

name, they discovered a whole

33:44

treasure trove of information, including a

33:46

rap sheet that was a hundred and thirteen

33:49

pages long and included charges of

33:51

credit card fraud, parole violations,

33:53

and grand theft. Laren had

33:55

been using the name Elisa as

33:58

an alias and it became the main

33:59

goal to find out who this

34:02

mysterious woman was and to figure out

34:04

what if anything she had done

34:06

to Larry. A warrant was issued

34:08

for Lauren's arrest, and a ten

34:10

thousand dollar reward was announced for

34:12

information leading to

34:14

her arrest. Police followed Lauren's trail and

34:16

discovered an enormous backstory that had

34:18

led up to this point in

34:20

her life. Laren Renee

34:22

Sims was born on January twentieth

34:24

nineteen sixty six in Attleboro,

34:26

Massachusetts to parents Jesse

34:28

and Jackie. Her parents did their best to raise Lauren right, but to

34:30

her mom, Lauren never liked being told what

34:32

to do and her attitude became harder and

34:34

harder to control the order she

34:38

got. Jackie said that Lauren had so much to offer, but that she got

34:40

frustrated very easily. She was

34:42

raised in Brooksville, Florida, which is directly

34:44

west of Orlando by about seventy

34:48

miles. And Brooksville is a very small country town and Lauren

34:50

wanted to branch out and have more experiences.

34:52

She was extremely intelligent with

34:54

an IQ of a hundred and forty

34:58

and she was always at the top of her class. But in a really

35:00

shocking move right before she was about to

35:02

graduate high school, she dropped out.

35:05

Some people thought Laram was extremely attractive while

35:08

others thought she was nothing really special,

35:10

but those who knew her all agreed that

35:12

she was kenyving, clever, intelligent, and able to sweet

35:14

talk and con anyone. Her own

35:16

brother said that half of her problem was that

35:18

she was too

35:20

good looking. and that guys would do

35:22

really anything for her.

35:24

As a teenager, Laram was caught writing

35:26

bad checks and her parents had her evaluated

35:28

by a psychiatrist. That's when she

35:30

had her IQ tested. Despite being

35:32

very smart, Lauren had several

35:34

disciplinary problems throughout high school and she

35:36

skipped school a lot. Teachers described

35:38

her as being moody, distant, and

35:40

stubborn, and classmates remembered her as

35:42

being outgoing and rebellious. When

35:44

Lauren was just eighteen

35:46

years old, she married her first husband, Virgil Jordan, who

35:48

fathered Lauren's daughter, Haley.

35:50

The relationship was short lived, and by the time

35:52

Lauren was twenty, the young couple were divorced.

35:56

After this failed marriage, Lauren began

35:58

stealing and conning people. Her

35:59

life seemed to really take a turn and she

36:02

made one bad decision

36:04

after another. A few years

36:06

later, Lauren had another child with a man

36:08

named Kirk. They had a son named Cole

36:10

who was born with

36:12

cerebral palsy. According to Lauren's brother, by the late nineteen

36:14

eighties, Lauren had started dating a string of

36:16

what he called losers. In one of

36:18

Lauren's relationships,

36:20

the boyfriend talked her into breaking into his ex wife's house

36:22

to steal the Christmas presents from under the tree.

36:24

He convinced her to do it by saying that

36:27

gifts actually belonged to him and that he wanted to

36:29

get them to his kids. Laren

36:32

ended up getting arrested for Grand Theft and was

36:34

charging another burglary

36:36

and theft just a few months probation

36:38

for these two offenses.

36:40

So Laren wasn't one to be held down.

36:43

and eventually decided to violate her parole

36:46

and attend a hockey game in

36:48

Tampa. Unfortunately, her probation

36:50

officer happened to be at the same game

36:52

and saw her there. And so she was

36:54

arrested and spent nine months in jail.

36:56

But quickly after she was released, she was

36:58

caught using a stolen credit card

37:00

and was forced to actually wear

37:01

an ankle monitor.

37:03

In early nineteen ninety three, Lauren

37:06

went on the run. This was the

37:08

first time that she changed her name to avoid

37:10

being found. she would

37:12

eventually use thirty eight different

37:14

aliases over her lifetime. If you get that

37:16

many aliases, do you just turn around

37:18

anytime anyone says any name? if somebody just

37:20

says, like, looks in your direction. Can

37:22

you imagine I would be so confused?

37:24

Like, I can't even imagine or

37:26

fathom changing my name for

37:28

a non nefarious reason.

37:30

And then having to, like, remember that name and,

37:32

like, learn a new identity. Like, imagine if you

37:34

were in the witness protection program or something

37:36

and you had to get a new

37:38

identity. It would be so hard. I

37:40

would never remember. Like, I don't understand people

37:42

who have aliases. It really blows my mind that

37:44

they can keep it all together and, like, keep track of

37:46

everything. Yeah. I don't know. I mean,

37:48

you've gotta think, like, if I if I

37:50

if I if I do this wrong,

37:52

if I grew up, then the jig

37:54

is up. So I guess if you're, like, threatened

37:56

with maybe prison time, you could

37:57

probably put your brain cells together

37:59

to remember it. So all Laren had been on

38:02

one of her jail stints. She had

38:04

somehow managed to see the Social

38:06

Security number of another inmate named

38:08

Elizabeth Brosh.

38:10

And the highly intelligent Lauren just memorized

38:12

this person's Social Security number

38:14

in jail, which is just mind blowing to

38:16

me that she could see this person's

38:19

number and just

38:20

memorize it. Like, she didn't have anything

38:22

to write it down with or save it, you know.

38:25

And she just memorized it. And

38:27

later on, decided to take over Elizabeth Bosch's identity,

38:29

and was like, oh, you know what? Let me

38:31

just dig down into my memory, and I know the

38:33

person I know this person's Social Security number.

38:35

Just Maybe what do you mean?

38:37

was able to do that. I wouldn't have even been able to guess how to

38:39

spell this lady's name. First name or last name, I

38:42

would have

38:42

probably gotten wrong. I can't imagine

38:45

memorizing somebody's social. So

38:46

once Lauren had decided to take over this identity, she pretty

38:49

much just left like a thief in the

38:51

night, and she took her daughter Haley

38:54

with her. and Haley was seven years old at the time.

38:56

She did not take her five year old son

38:58

Cole because of him

39:00

having cerebral

39:02

palsy. but she told Haley that they needed to leave because

39:04

her father was trying to get custody

39:06

of her. It was March

39:10

twenty third nineteen ninety three when Laren cut off her

39:12

ankle monitor and took off with

39:14

Haley. They headed west and

39:16

found themselves in Las Vegas

39:19

where Lauren, who is now

39:21

going by Elisa, rented an apartment

39:23

and started working as a manager

39:25

in a chiropractor's office. Although

39:27

she was going by a new name, Haley

39:30

continued to go by her real name, which was

39:32

Haley Jordan. One thing to note

39:34

about Lauren is that she had

39:36

a knack blending in with her surroundings and making herself appear to

39:38

be someone different than who she was,

39:40

specifically in situations where it would suit

39:42

her such as seducing men to take

39:44

care of

39:46

her. While living in Vegas, Lisa met Ken Reynoldsberger

39:48

and began a relationship. Ken was

39:50

very into the outdoors and he loved

39:52

to camp and fish. And so, Alyssa

39:55

pretended to also love these things. She played it off

39:57

really well and can really believe that they

39:59

had a lot in common. Their

40:02

romance blossomed, and Ken eventually

40:04

asked Alisa and Hayley to move in with

40:06

him. Once Alisa was in, she

40:08

went through Ken's bills and found a

40:10

credit card of his. She then

40:12

stole the card and maxed it out

40:14

immediately. When Kim got the bill a

40:16

month later, he asked Alisa to

40:18

move out. but they got back together very quickly and ended up

40:20

getting married in nineteen ninety

40:22

four. This is just mind blowing to me

40:24

because whenever you

40:26

think about basically, this is what happened with

40:28

Larry when she embezzled the money from his

40:30

firm. And then a month later, he turned around

40:32

and married her. And it's just

40:34

now to she get these

40:36

people to, like, look past

40:38

these things that she's done

40:40

even though their relationships are so new and so

40:42

fresh and they don't really even know

40:44

her and she does you know,

40:46

she steals from them. And

40:48

then a month later, they're like, let's get

40:50

married. Like, I want to know how she

40:52

pulled that off so many times in

40:54

her life. Yeah. I have absolutely no idea,

40:56

but you've got to once you're caught, I guess you've

40:58

got to lay it on pretty thick after that. So

41:00

she's got to pull out all

41:02

the

41:02

tricks from her bag after that

41:04

and really lock it down. But, yeah, I don't understand

41:06

that at all. You think they get married?

41:08

She could convince them to marry her quickly. and

41:10

then she'd

41:10

commit her crimes, but no. She she was like,

41:12

I'm gonna do this and then you're gonna marry me.

41:14

So she had a real knack for

41:16

doing that apparently and things got worse

41:19

after the wedding, Alyssa continued to spend all

41:21

of Ken's money. And after six

41:24

short months, Ken was ready to throw in

41:26

the towel. He knew his relationship with

41:28

Alyssa was not healthy, any file for

41:30

divorce, but he let Alisa and

41:32

Hayley keep living there because he felt a

41:34

responsibility to this little girl. It

41:36

was a far calling summer July of nineteen ninety five that Alisa took job

41:38

at Larry McNaughtony's Law Office.

41:40

When Alisa and Larry

41:42

started a romantic relationship, Ken

41:45

was actually thrilled. He thought that Larry

41:48

would finally take Alisa off of his

41:50

hands. And it wasn't long

41:52

before Alisa did move in with Larry, although her young daughter,

41:54

Haley, continued to live with Ken. Alyssa

41:56

worked herself from this outdoor loving

41:58

type of girl to acting as

42:00

a sophisticated legal

42:02

secretary. She was really able to run Larry's life.

42:04

She set his appointments and spoke with

42:06

important people. And in late nineteen ninety

42:08

five, Larry and Melisa were going

42:11

on a trip. but Ken said that he couldn't keep Hailey that weekend because

42:13

he was also going on a trip. Ken put Hailey

42:16

on a plane to Reno so that Alisa could

42:18

pick her up, but Ken never saw

42:20

Hailey again. Alyssa announced

42:22

that she was gonna have Hailey live with her and

42:24

Larry. Alyssa only contacted

42:26

Ken a couple more times, and all in

42:28

all, she stole around thirty thousand dollars

42:30

from him over the short time she knew him. Ken eventually moved on

42:32

with his life and put Alyssa behind him

42:34

until the police questioned him after

42:36

Larry McNappney was found dead and

42:39

Alyssa was a suspect in order

42:42

to get into what happened next after one last break to hear from this week's

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46:07

to the episode.

46:12

Before the break, we were talking

46:14

about how this man

46:16

can who had been dating Elisa

46:19

before she met Larry had just put Elise's daughter,

46:22

Hayley, back on a plane to her,

46:24

and he never saw

46:26

her again. Elisa decided

46:28

that the child was going to live with her

46:30

and Leary and that was kind

46:32

of the end of things between Elisa

46:34

and this man can and that was you

46:36

know, the final tie between him that was cut off.

46:38

So he didn't hear anything about her again until the

46:40

police came questioning him regarding

46:43

Larry McNaughney's death.

46:46

So, Ken told investigators that Elise's

46:48

name was Elizabeth Barosch when

46:50

he first met her, and the police found an

46:52

address for a woman by that name in

46:56

West Palm Beach, Florida. However, when they arrived

46:58

there, they found not the woman

47:00

they were looking for, but instead

47:02

they found their real Elizabeth Baroche

47:05

who had her identity stolen by Lauren while they were serving

47:08

time together as we said

47:10

previously. Little did they

47:12

know, Lauren had actually already fled

47:14

to Destin following Larry's

47:16

murder. And she was living there,

47:18

waiting tables at an upscale restaurant, as well

47:20

as doing clerical work at a

47:22

law office. and she had

47:24

also changed her name once again

47:26

to Shane Iveroni.

47:28

It's so interesting to me when people do aliases,

47:30

I guess sometimes you other people's identities, but

47:32

I wonder if they ever just make up

47:35

the names. I guess not. I guess

47:37

you have to have more than just a

47:39

name. You have to have an

47:41

actual identity. Maybe. But

47:44

I I mean, why not have fun with

47:46

it at some point? You've had so many. Just

47:48

take a few of your favorite things, put them together. On

47:50

thirty rock, this is not important, but

47:52

there's a doctor named doctor Spichemen.

47:56

which if you spell it out, it's doctor Space Man. So I always thought one

47:58

of those things would be kind of

47:59

fun to have. So

48:02

in this time, she also cut her

48:04

hair and dyed

48:06

it brown. and she dropped from a size ten to a size

48:08

three. On the search

48:10

to find Lauren, police visited her

48:12

parents who said they actually hadn't seen her

48:14

in ten

48:16

years. But the police eventually had a stroke of luck when

48:18

Laren's boss at the restaurant that she

48:20

worked at reported that his credit card had

48:22

been used to pay for a meal

48:26

after Laren attended a Kid Rock concert

48:28

with a man named Robert Murphy. So

48:30

all of this kind of goes together and

48:32

you'll see how this all leads up

48:36

to end of the story. So, on March fourteenth, two thousand

48:38

and one, Lara's boss

48:39

from the restaurant went to her

48:41

other employer, Paul, at

48:43

the law

48:44

firm, and told him what she had done in regards to stealing

48:46

his credit card and using it.

48:48

So the law office then decided, you

48:50

know, we're just gonna check her out

48:53

they looked at the Social Security number that Lauren

48:55

gave when she was hired. And to

48:57

their surprise, this Social Security

49:00

number came back to

49:02

a man which I guess makes sense if she was using the name Shane. I

49:04

guess, that could be a Yeah. That

49:06

could go either way. But, yeah, that makes sense that it was

49:08

that it came back to a man.

49:11

so they alerted the police.

49:13

But Lauren caught on that something was

49:15

up and she made a quick exit. She

49:17

told her coworkers that she was gonna go

49:19

to the doctor But instead, she ended up leaving

49:21

work, and she called Robert Murphy, who was the man

49:24

that she had just been to the

49:26

concert with. and asked him to

49:28

go out on a date with her. And then at the

49:30

end of the night, she stole his

49:32

truck and six hundred dollars from

49:34

him, but she left him

49:36

a note and the keys to her car and said that

49:38

she would be bringing the truck back in

49:40

just a

49:42

few days. On March

49:44

fifteenth, police located Laren's red

49:46

jaguar, but they were surprised to find

49:48

Robert behind the wheel. And when he told

49:50

that Laren had stolen his truck, they started to look

49:52

for that vehicle instead. It took a few

49:54

days, but on March eighteenth, the truck

49:56

was spotted abandoned at a Winddixie

49:59

near the beach. officers ended up finding Laren sitting on

50:01

the beach in a chair, and when they approached

50:04

her, she simply said, I

50:06

am the one you are

50:08

looking for. Whoa.

50:09

That's like breaking bad. I'm the one who knows. I've

50:11

got some confidence. Yeah. Well,

50:13

the police

50:14

said you

50:16

know, they felt like she was tired of running and she was ready to

50:18

kind of, you know, surrender. So she

50:20

was arrested without any trouble and

50:24

charged with first degree murder, and she would have to be extradited to

50:26

California, of course,

50:27

for her trial. Following

50:29

Lauren's arrest,

50:30

Haley went to live with Lauren's

50:32

parents. So,

50:34

Larry confessed to police that she had in fact murdered Larry.

50:36

She alleged that he had a drinking

50:38

problem and that he used drugs as well as abused

50:40

her, and she claimed that when she and

50:43

fight it in her new front, Sarah Dutra, it was

50:45

Sarah who suggested that she killed

50:48

Larry. According to Laren, she and Larry had

50:50

gone to the horse show in Los Angeles on

50:52

the weekend of September ninth, and Sarah went

50:54

there to join them. She said that

50:56

Larry had been using horse tranquilizers for

50:58

fun that night and that he had passed

51:00

out. So Sarah suggested that it would be

51:02

a good time to kill him and that really all they

51:05

needed to do was give him more tranquilizers

51:07

and no one would find out.

51:09

Laren claimed that both of the women took turns

51:11

squirting the horse tranquilizers into Larry's

51:14

mouth, but their plan didn't work.

51:16

Larry didn't die. He woke up on September

51:18

tenth and actually showed his horse at the horse show and then he went

51:20

back to bed. Sarah and Larry

51:22

believed that Larry was dead at this point,

51:25

but when they tried to move him, they

51:27

realized he was but couldn't walk. The women had to think

51:30

fast to come up with a solution for what to

51:32

do with this heavily

51:34

drugged man so they

51:36

decided to rent a

51:38

wheelchair. On the morning of September eleventh, in the

51:40

midst of the news of the terrorist attacks here in

51:42

the United States, Sarah and

51:44

Lauren wheeled a nearly unconscious

51:46

Leary out of the hotel and put him into

51:48

the back of the

51:50

truck. And With everything going on, almost no one noticed them

51:52

or paid any attention.

51:54

The woman decided to drive out to

51:56

Yosemite to

51:58

Barry Larry but he still hadn't died at this point and Lauren really

52:00

started to have second thoughts. She

52:02

didn't want to bury him alive, so they kept

52:04

driving and hoped that he

52:06

would die. obviously

52:08

so terrible that you're just waiting for this

52:10

person who you loved to die. You're

52:13

just driving around, like, impatiently hoping

52:16

for this person to die. Well, it's like horrifying to think about

52:18

it from Larry's perspective because he

52:21

was on tranquilizers, but

52:23

he was still he

52:25

was conscious. Like, he was alive and,

52:28

like, knew what was happening. He

52:30

can't do anything. He can't move. It's just

52:32

terrifying.

52:32

It's horrible. Yeah.

52:34

they eventually found themselves back at the house that Larry shared with Laren who only

52:36

knew her as a Lisa. When they

52:38

got to the house, Larry said

52:41

he wanted to sleep. The

52:43

next morning, September twelfth, Lauren told police

52:46

that Larry was dead. Lauren

52:48

said that she and Sarah then wrapped Larry's body

52:50

in a sheet put duct tape

52:52

around it and then place his body inside a

52:54

refrigerator in the garage while they tried to come

52:56

up with a better plan. As

52:58

we said earlier in the story, this

53:00

better plan was pretend that Larry

53:02

was still alive and to continue to

53:04

run his law firm and spend his

53:06

money. Larry continued giving her

53:08

confession to police and said that months after

53:10

the murder, shame Sarah put Larry's body in the trunk of her car

53:12

and drove to a Vegas

53:14

hotel. Sarah allegedly stayed at the

53:16

hotel with Larry's body and Lauren went

53:18

out looking for

53:20

a spot Sbarium, but she ran into a problem when she

53:22

realized that the ground was too hard to

53:24

dig. So the women then drove

53:26

Larry's body back

53:28

to California and

53:30

they decided to bury him in this vineyard. Laren

53:32

snuck in at around four o'clock in

53:34

the morning and dug a hole in

53:37

place Larry's body inside. Investigators

53:40

asked her how deep she dug the hole

53:42

and she responded, quote,

53:44

not deep enough obviously. Finally,

53:48

Laren told police that after the body was

53:50

gone and she asked someone to come move

53:52

the fridge away from the house.

53:55

After hearing Laren's confession, the San

53:57

Joaquin County deputy district attorney

54:00

said, quote, this admission may

54:02

be the only time she has told the

54:04

truth

54:04

in years. After Laren

54:06

had confessed, she was

54:08

able to visit with her family and see her

54:10

son Cole who was now sick sixteen

54:13

and hadn't seen his mom in nine years. On March

54:15

thirty first, two thousand two,

54:17

Lauren took her own

54:19

life in jail. She

54:21

left a suicide note addressed to her attorney,

54:24

Thomas Hogan.

54:26

She put the note in an envelope, tore

54:28

into four pieces, put the pieces into a sandwich baggy, and placed it

54:30

in the corner of her cell. In

54:33

the note, Laren does

54:36

scribed a household relationship with Larry and alleged

54:38

that he first hit her on July second

54:41

nineteen ninety six. She said that

54:43

she confided in a friend who also worked at the

54:45

office at that time, and when Larry found out that

54:48

she told the woman he fired

54:50

her.

54:50

there and row Larry wrote,

54:52

quote, Tom, I

54:53

think we both know it doesn't matter what kind of man Larry was.

54:55

We murdered him. Of course, I should spend

54:57

the rest of my life

55:00

in prison. Sarah should too. I wish I could change what happened, but

55:02

I can't. Laren's note also

55:04

alleged that Larry had threatened Haley

55:06

and she believes that killing him

55:08

saved her

55:10

daughter from She also had some other

55:12

interesting words in her note and she was kind

55:14

of expressing an attraction and this

55:16

admiration for her lawyer who

55:17

she thought very

55:19

Kiley of her lawyer later came out and said

55:21

that he thought she was just distraught

55:23

while she was writing this and, like, that

55:25

those things didn't really you know,

55:27

mean anything. So finally, Lauren ended

55:30

her note by asking Tom, her

55:32

lawyer, to sue the

55:34

Hernandez County jail for not preventing

55:36

her suicide. she wanted

55:38

whatever money was paid out to go to her

55:40

two children. She said that she

55:42

hoped they could move into their

55:44

futures with out this heavy burden and felt that she did them a favor by

55:46

not putting them through

55:48

their mother being

55:50

on trial. After police

55:52

heard, Laren's side of the story, they

55:54

arrested Sarah. They believe they had

55:56

enough evidence to charge her as an accessory

55:58

to murder at the

56:00

very least. Sarah denied that Lauren ever told her anything about

56:02

Larry being abusive or that she should

56:04

murder him and told the police that

56:06

Lauren was evil and was trying to pull her

56:08

down with

56:10

her. Sara said that it was Lauren who gave Larry the tranquilizer

56:12

and who wanted to bury him alive in

56:14

Yosemite. Sarah said that she

56:16

was terrified of Lauren and believe she

56:19

would end up dead if she went to the

56:21

police. Sarah was eventually charged with

56:23

first

56:23

degree murder. Her

56:25

trial began on January sixteenth

56:27

two thousand three. Laren's

56:30

confession, though, was not allowed into evidence

56:32

in

56:32

Sarah's trial. The

56:34

prosecution presented their theory that Sarah

56:36

was the true mastermind behind Larry's

56:39

murder and it was all motivated by the mutual

56:41

dislike between them. Prosecutors alleged

56:43

that it was somewhat of a love

56:45

triangle situation were both Larry and

56:48

Sarah wanted all of

56:50

Lara's attention. And Sarah

56:52

was particularly loving the very fancy life

56:54

that she was living on Larry's dime.

56:56

It was believed that Larry had told Sarah that he was gonna fire her two days

56:58

before he was murdered, and that that was

57:00

really the true motive behind the killing.

57:04

Larry's own children agreed that Sarah was a driving force behind

57:07

their father's murder. They believe that if

57:09

it wasn't for Sarah's influence, he would

57:11

actually still be alive, and

57:13

that Lauren really did love their dad before Sarah had

57:15

come into the picture. Prosecutors said that

57:18

Sarah participated in this with her eyes

57:20

wide open. and that she was more

57:22

than willing to help and also became closer

57:24

with Lauren after the

57:26

murder. Sarah's defense was that Alisa was

57:28

bored with Larry, so she decided kill him and then

57:30

she manipulated Sarah into helping her

57:32

cover it up. She claims she was

57:34

terrified of Lauren and what she was

57:36

capable of.

57:37

but Haley actually testified that Sarah

57:39

never once seemed scared of her mom.

57:41

Ginger

57:41

Miller, who was a woman that Lauren hired

57:44

after Larry's murder, testified

57:46

that at time that Larry was missing, Sarah and Lauren

57:48

laughed, shopped, ate, and even slept in

57:50

the same bed together. They spent

57:52

all of Larry's money,

57:54

and Sarah pretty much moved into

57:56

his house with Laren. They even cleared out Larry's

57:58

side of the closet in the bathroom so

57:59

that Sarah could put her stuff

58:02

in there. After

58:02

four days of deliberation, the jury found Guilty of voluntary

58:05

manslaughter and accessory to murder.

58:07

On April twenty first two thousand

58:09

three, she was sent till

58:11

eleven years in prison. She went to central women's

58:13

facility in Chochila, California where she stayed

58:16

until she was released on August twenty

58:18

six two thousand eleven at thirty one

58:20

years old. So, update time. because this

58:22

is a brand new update that is

58:24

from April of this year, twenty

58:26

twenty two. So, this is just a couple

58:28

months old. So twenty

58:30

twenty actually released an episode that featured

58:32

an interview with Lauren's daughter

58:34

Haley who, of course, has never

58:36

spoken to the media before this. she

58:38

chose not to because she really just

58:40

wanted to forget her pass as we said. And I

58:42

and I we say this a

58:44

lot in these cases where it's like

58:46

when they're kids that are involved in, like, they either go live with a family

58:48

member or they, you know, they grow up with a

58:50

totally different life than what they, you know, could've

58:52

had if there if these terrible things

58:54

didn't happen.

58:56

So I can understand not wanting to, like,

58:58

be out in the public, but she

59:00

did speak on twenty twenty

59:02

this year. say that she

59:04

spent the majority of her life on the run

59:06

with her mom. And she described pretty much

59:08

her whole life as being very

59:12

erratic and constantly being on the move. They would only

59:13

spend maybe six months or two a year at the most in one

59:15

place at a time, which is really hard for a

59:18

kid. Yeah. I

59:20

didn't, like, I didn't move around like a

59:22

lot as much as some people, but my dad

59:24

was an air traffic controller and like we moved to lots

59:26

of states. And I at one point, I

59:28

did like I calculated how many think five

59:30

elementary schools, three different middle schools,

59:32

and four different high schools. And so I'm like,

59:34

that's, like, every year. Yeah.

59:37

Yeah. ever go to that many

59:39

schools. So Haley said, quote, when I think about my mom from that

59:42

time for her, it was about fun until

59:44

it was

59:46

not. until it was about waking up in the middle of the night and saying, hey,

59:48

we have to leave because rent hadn't

59:50

been paid or because she was being evicted.

59:54

Haley said that Larry's struggles with addiction made her feel constantly

59:56

unsafe around him. And she

59:58

also said that she witnessed Larry physically

1:00:00

abuse

1:00:02

her mom. Haley said

1:00:04

that Laren left Larry at

1:00:05

one point, but went back

1:00:08

because he had threatened

1:00:08

to turn her in for the outstanding

1:00:11

warrants that she had.

1:00:12

Haley also said that she did try

1:00:15

to leave a couple of times. Her mom tried to

1:00:17

leave a couple of times, but he

1:00:19

tracked them

1:00:19

down and said that, you know, if they didn't agree to

1:00:22

come home with him, he would kill

1:00:24

both of them and then by himself. Yeah. Things actually got so bad

1:00:26

that Laren sent Haley away

1:00:28

to Maine to train horses

1:00:32

and Haley said at this point that Larry was just

1:00:34

going off the rails. Those were her

1:00:35

words. She said that he was losing

1:00:37

control

1:00:37

of himself And

1:00:39

she said, quote, I knew it got really bad when my mom

1:00:42

looked at me and said, oh, I got you a

1:00:44

job training courses in

1:00:46

Maine. And so she packed up all her stuff and left

1:00:48

at that point. When

1:00:50

Larry's body was found, Haley said that she

1:00:52

and her mom were actually in Arizona,

1:00:54

and they had to move again when his

1:00:56

body was found. And at

1:00:58

that point, she hadn't really

1:01:00

known what her mom had done,

1:01:02

and she was just so used to moving that she

1:01:04

didn't even question it, you know, this time

1:01:06

what was different about it than any other time. They

1:01:08

had done it. So they ended up driving all over the country. They spent time

1:01:10

in multiple towns. And Haley

1:01:12

said they picked where they were gonna stay

1:01:14

based

1:01:14

on how much tourism there was there

1:01:16

because when

1:01:18

there's a lot of tourism, it's easier to just blend in. People are

1:01:20

expecting there to be outsiders, you know,

1:01:22

coming

1:01:22

and going. So they also

1:01:25

would use cash for everything. at

1:01:27

this point, Haley said she still didn't really

1:01:29

know what was happening back in

1:01:32

California, but leaving Arizona

1:01:34

just reinforced to her that you know, this was

1:01:36

her way of life and this is what she was gonna

1:01:38

have to do, you know, to

1:01:40

continue to protect, you know, her

1:01:42

mom from whatever it was that they were

1:01:44

running from. So Haley

1:01:46

and Lauren ended up settling in Destin,

1:01:48

Florida, and they ended up changing their

1:01:50

names. But Lauren started

1:01:52

to panic the authorities were gonna find her there. So she picked up

1:01:54

Haley and said they're moving to

1:01:56

Charleston,

1:01:56

South Carolina. So

1:01:59

Haley hears this from her mom and she

1:02:02

says, no, I'm not moving again. I'm

1:02:04

so tired of this. You know, I'm finally in the

1:02:06

school I like or whatever and I'm

1:02:08

not leaving. and she

1:02:10

said she felt really kind of resigned to

1:02:12

this life that she was a non

1:02:14

person. She said, I exist but

1:02:16

not really me. And that's when

1:02:18

Lauren tells Haley what actually happened

1:02:20

to Larry. And Haley said quote

1:02:22

and it kind of felt like everything was just

1:02:24

white noise. I couldn't think, I didn't see anything around me. I was

1:02:26

horrified in quote. After this

1:02:28

conversation, Lauren drops Hailey off

1:02:30

at home and she

1:02:32

drives off. Well, Hailey

1:02:34

is worried after her mom's confessed to

1:02:36

this that she's going to hurt

1:02:38

herself. And so she calls police and

1:02:40

actually gives her a description of her

1:02:42

mom's car and that's

1:02:44

how authorities were actually able to

1:02:46

find Lauren and track her down to the

1:02:48

beach. She doesn't put up any resistance and

1:02:50

she admits to

1:02:52

the Haley said, quote, I was both incredibly relieved that she

1:02:54

was okay and horrified that I had

1:02:56

contributed to her worst

1:02:58

nightmare happening

1:03:00

and quote. because their whole lives, you know, she's been on the run

1:03:02

really. Haley said she was devastated over

1:03:04

her mother's death and she told twenty

1:03:06

twenty that her mom was a victim

1:03:08

of domestic violence and she's

1:03:10

learned from the situation. She

1:03:12

said she now knows that, quote, you never have to

1:03:14

say in a situation that you don't feel

1:03:16

safe, a situation that you question. you have a right to safe

1:03:18

and you have a right to whatever future you're

1:03:20

willing to make, end quote. And

1:03:22

I have to say I believe everything

1:03:25

she's saying in this, multiple reasons, but

1:03:27

part of it is she has no

1:03:29

there's no reason for her to lie about any of this.

1:03:31

Her mom's not alive anymore. She's not

1:03:34

protecting her. this -- Right. -- you

1:03:36

know, this is such a

1:03:38

complicated story. And I feel like without her side

1:03:40

of this story, it it seems

1:03:42

more complicated. You know what I mean? Like, we

1:03:44

-- Right. -- we just don't we don't

1:03:46

know Laren's side really.

1:03:48

Really? Right. As we don't her life had

1:03:50

ended so shortly, but

1:03:52

but this I don't

1:03:53

know. This is like a whole different side of the

1:03:55

story. I I Yeah. It

1:03:58

is really sad. Yeah. Yeah. It is

1:03:59

really sad. Okay. So that was our story for this

1:04:02

week. Before we get out of here

1:04:04

for the week Melissa, let's turn the

1:04:06

page and do last thing before

1:04:08

we go.

1:04:10

So if you're new to lasting before we go, this is just something we do at the end

1:04:12

of the episode, kind of a

1:04:14

way to leave on

1:04:16

a slightly lighter note. and

1:04:18

just something to go on to your next show. Is that a way to say

1:04:21

it? I don't know if that makes any sense. But

1:04:23

it's not it it doesn't have anything to

1:04:25

do with the episode. So we're

1:04:28

it's just but you're listening to a mini version of another show. Right?

1:04:30

Yes. Okay. Mandy. So the year's

1:04:32

almost over. Twenty twenty two.

1:04:34

Where'd you go? Hard to believe. Hard

1:04:36

to believe. Where'd you

1:04:38

go? So I think

1:04:40

we're just kind of gonna list some of our favorite

1:04:42

things from the year. Does that sound fun

1:04:43

to you? I have

1:04:45

a few favorite things. Okay. Great. Do you wanna

1:04:47

start it off? What what's the first

1:04:49

category for you? Okay. So you gave

1:04:51

me a few categories. like

1:04:53

favorite food items, favorite shows that were on

1:04:56

TV, movies, and all that. So let's go

1:04:58

favorite show. Obviously, for me,

1:05:00

it's love is blind. We all know that.

1:05:02

That's like And the reason it's my

1:05:04

favorite is because it's literally the only one. I feel like that I

1:05:06

watch all year. I did watch White

1:05:08

Lotus, or I am currently watching White Lotus.

1:05:11

I season. So yes. Yeah. That's

1:05:14

good. But those really were the only two

1:05:16

shows I even watched. Those were my twenty twenty two

1:05:18

shows. Truly mind blowing.

1:05:20

That is truly mind blowing.

1:05:22

I had to, like, look at things to be

1:05:24

like, what could I do? And I came up

1:05:26

with three because I could

1:05:28

not even get it down. Love is blind. Didn't even make it. White

1:05:30

Lotus. White what? I don't know. I didn't

1:05:32

see that, like, that is not even on my

1:05:34

list. My favorite shows is here we're

1:05:36

severance, which

1:05:38

is so good. It's on Apple TV. Have you seen that Apple

1:05:40

Plus? What's it called? I don't know. I've

1:05:42

seen that it's a thing that I don't

1:05:45

have it. It isn't the I didn't either, but I got the seven

1:05:47

day trial just for that. Forgot to end it,

1:05:49

and then I ended up watching something else. And then

1:05:51

I was like, alright. I

1:05:53

gotta stop. good drama. It's a

1:05:55

little, like, not supernatural. It's a little

1:05:57

techie. What's the word that's, like, it can't

1:05:59

actually happen? Please, god, don't let

1:06:01

this actually happen. but

1:06:04

it's fun. It's different for me. Better Call Saul

1:06:06

Mandy, I tried to get you to watch this because

1:06:08

you liked breaking bad. You know, my husband gets

1:06:10

on to me all the time about not watching better Kussaw.

1:06:12

He likes it. He watches it whenever I'm, like, sleeping because he always stays up

1:06:15

after me. But, yeah, he's also said, well, I

1:06:17

should watch it. I just It was

1:06:19

the perfect finale. Like, the

1:06:21

way to end that whole world, the Breaking

1:06:23

Bad world, could not have picked a

1:06:25

better way to end it. My favorite comedy

1:06:27

this year, Barry. I didn't know

1:06:29

that that was like, it was as good

1:06:31

as it was. I had tried to watch it before. Absolutely perfect.

1:06:34

Bill Haters in it. Do you know which one I'm talking

1:06:36

about? Henry

1:06:38

Winkler, HBO, know recommend

1:06:40

it to you because I feel like you would

1:06:42

not respond to me in the

1:06:44

way I would need you to raise the funds.

1:06:48

So I'm not gonna recommend it to you, but other people that like Good

1:06:50

TV and watch more than two shows in a year.

1:06:52

Please watch Barry and get back with me. Maybe

1:06:55

what do you got next? Okay.

1:06:58

So next, favorite food items of

1:07:00

this year or snacks. Did you discover

1:07:02

anything new or did you

1:07:03

have anything I don't know. I

1:07:05

feel like I go through these phases. Right? Where, like,

1:07:07

one year, I will be really into eating like a

1:07:09

certain thing and then, you know, kind of totally changes

1:07:12

with the time. So what for you, what was it

1:07:14

this year? This is gonna sound lame, but it's actually so good and it fills

1:07:16

me up. At Aldi, there

1:07:18

is this protein bread which

1:07:20

sounds gross. didn't even wanna do it.

1:07:22

I bought it on accident, but it has like seeds

1:07:24

and stuff in it, and it's high in protein so it

1:07:26

fills you up. So I toast it and put

1:07:28

one of those like cheese wedge things,

1:07:30

you know, like that laughing cow,

1:07:32

like, the Audi version of that, and

1:07:34

then Boysenberry jelly

1:07:36

on it. it's so good. It's like a perfect it's

1:07:38

an easy way to eat something and like start

1:07:40

your day off with actual food

1:07:42

and like not be miserable. And

1:07:44

so I can eat

1:07:46

it for snack. It's so

1:07:47

good. I love

1:07:48

it. So yeah, that's my that's my go

1:07:50

to. What about you? Wow, I love that.

1:07:52

So mine is not like an

1:07:54

a meal. It's more of an item that goes

1:07:56

along with food that I have just been like obsessed

1:07:58

with this year, and I'm

1:07:59

sure that you've seen it at

1:08:02

the store I'm pretty sure this just came out this year or maybe it was like, I

1:08:04

don't

1:08:04

know, for some somehow it's popular this

1:08:06

year.

1:08:06

But have you seen so you know

1:08:08

I'm really into, like,

1:08:09

hot sauces. Right?

1:08:12

Because I basically

1:08:12

eat the same boring Right. You

1:08:14

gotta have something that's fine. Right. Like, I eat

1:08:15

just a

1:08:18

lot of chicken and rice and I have to try and figure out how to jazz it Sometimes

1:08:20

I make it like more of like an

1:08:22

Asian style and I'll do, you know,

1:08:26

kinda like a chicken fried rice, etcetera. obviously, we all know it's not as delicious, but I'll try

1:08:28

to flavor it in different ways. But a lot of thing

1:08:30

I do I do a lot of hot sauces. So

1:08:32

I found this new

1:08:35

hot sauce, the truff

1:08:36

brand? Have you seen

1:08:38

them? I haven't. That, like, even the packaging is very, like, sleek and it even

1:08:40

looks very, like, elegant

1:08:43

and, like, high class

1:08:44

for hot sauce. Okay? And turns

1:08:46

out it must be I don't know what the deal is, but, like, I'm talking about -- Oh, I just know about sauce. --

1:08:48

hot sauce. Yes. That is

1:08:50

necessarily the republics.

1:08:51

I know. they

1:08:55

sold them at Publix. And so finally, one day, I was like, well, I really

1:08:57

wanna try it. I love hot sauce. I know it's expensive. I

1:08:59

wanna try it. Well, now I'm hooked

1:09:01

on this hot sauce. And I understand I

1:09:03

totally understand the hype behind it, but they have, like,

1:09:05

different heat levels. They have, like, a medium, a super

1:09:08

hot one, and then they have one that's, like, a

1:09:10

mild. but now I've seen that they have other things. I've seen

1:09:12

that brand has pasta sauce that I'm dying

1:09:14

to try. And I guess the secret

1:09:17

behind it is that they put truffles in

1:09:19

every Oh, yeah. Then I got to thinking, like, what even are truffles?

1:09:21

I don't even know truffles are. Listen.

1:09:23

I know pigs are

1:09:25

involved. There's, like,

1:09:28

truffle hunting pigs.

1:09:28

I learned that on the Conan and

1:09:30

O'Brien show. I don't even know who

1:09:31

it is. But trough hot sauce is

1:09:33

my number one

1:09:35

food item of twenty twenty two. I cannot

1:09:37

live without it, like, every single day in the last couple of months. I have just been eating for lunch. I've

1:09:39

been eating cook

1:09:44

my Jasmine rice and make my chicken and I'll

1:09:46

do shredded lettuce and just put this hot sauce on it, the truff sauce

1:09:48

and mix it all up. It's

1:09:51

ridiculous and it's so basic. but

1:09:54

hot sauce. That

1:09:54

is some real cheese sauce. favorite food item of the That I like it. That

1:09:57

is very interesting and

1:09:59

good

1:09:59

for you. I

1:10:03

I'm interested in trying it. I only like hot sauce

1:10:05

mixed with ranch. Like, not mixed, but, like,

1:10:07

I wanna wing. I

1:10:09

wanna wing for sure. that's hot and then putting it in ranch. So

1:10:12

I don't I'm not like a

1:10:14

big hot sauce person, but that sounds good.

1:10:16

Yeah.

1:10:18

Alright.

1:10:18

So Melissa, let's move on

1:10:20

to how about movie. Did you have a

1:10:22

favorite movie of the year?

1:10:23

So I watched zero movies this

1:10:26

year except mean girls with my daughter. I'm not a movie

1:10:28

person. Really? Yeah. It's like how you are

1:10:30

with TV. Yeah. I'm like that with movies.

1:10:32

Not a fan fan. Well, I'm actually, that

1:10:34

with movies and television. So,

1:10:36

gosh. I but

1:10:37

I did have a movie. And if you

1:10:39

really want something sweet to watch with, your daughter,

1:10:41

she probably would like this a lot too, my

1:10:43

kids liked it. but it's on Netflix, and

1:10:45

it has Ryan Reynolds. You'll love it. It's called the Adam Project. Oh.

1:10:47

And I don't

1:10:50

think that it came out this year, maybe it wasn't new this year, but I watched it

1:10:52

this year. I feel like it was on Netflix or it came

1:10:54

on Netflix this year. Oh, it was it did

1:10:58

come out in twenty twenty two. I just looked, okay, So seen check

1:11:00

it out. It has Ryan Reynolds, which I feel like

1:11:02

you cannot go wrong. He is just so hilarious. And

1:11:04

I love him. It

1:11:06

also has

1:11:07

Mark Ruffalo, which It has Jennifer Garner in

1:11:09

it. I know that. Yeah. So but, yeah, the plot is that after accidentally

1:11:11

crash landing in

1:11:15

twenty twenty two, time

1:11:16

traveling fighter pilot, Adam Reid, teams up with his twelve year

1:11:18

old self for a mission to save the future. And so they kind of

1:11:20

do these jumping back and

1:11:22

forth between timelines, and then It

1:11:25

has a really good twist at the end,

1:11:27

super super good, super cute movie. But I also wanted to give a honorable mention to another movie I

1:11:29

watched recently. It's on Netflix

1:11:31

and you might this

1:11:34

one too. Slumberland. Oh, I haven't even heard of that one. That one's really good, and it was a real

1:11:36

tier joker.

1:11:36

I did not think that it was gonna

1:11:38

make me emotional, but it was so

1:11:43

good and so heartwarming and just like, oh, it's just one of those

1:11:45

really make you feel good. And those are two really

1:11:48

good family

1:11:50

movies. So the Adam project and slumberland if you guys are looking for something to watch

1:11:52

with your families this holiday season. Those are two

1:11:54

really good ones if you haven't seen those

1:11:56

yet. Oh, very cool. Mandy, do

1:11:58

you do you have

1:11:59

a favorite song this year?

1:12:02

So

1:12:02

favorite song, yeah, I got my spotify wrapped like everybody else did this week.

1:12:04

And I had, of course, all

1:12:06

of my music habits and listening habits

1:12:10

analyzed and wrapped up into a

1:12:12

nice little I love how they create that

1:12:14

thing. Did you watch yours, Melissa? Oh,

1:12:17

yeah. Mine said you didn't listen to

1:12:19

enough on Spotify. I never use Spotify. I I'm lame. I

1:12:21

use other sports. back and forth.

1:12:23

And, like, Spotify said that I

1:12:25

listen to more than, like, eighty

1:12:27

five percent or

1:12:28

people or whatever

1:12:30

on Spotify. But

1:12:31

I really think my listening is, like, actually more than that because I bounce between Spotify and Pandora. So I feel if it if they

1:12:33

wanna get my Pandora minutes calculated in there,

1:12:35

I would have been listening. to

1:12:39

a lot more. Yeah. Yeah. More than they thought. But anyway, so yeah.

1:12:42

So I got my top five list. Honestly,

1:12:44

it was mostly an embarrassment.

1:12:46

My top two, though, weren't terrible.

1:12:49

My number two spot was the weekend, which I think, you know, I always have

1:12:51

listened to the weekend, so that's not really like

1:12:53

-- Right. --

1:12:55

a big big not shocking. But my number one

1:12:57

this year was Queen Kirby, and I don't know if you

1:13:00

even know who that

1:13:02

is. I'm guessing you probably

1:13:04

don't. How rude? I

1:13:05

love very easy. You know, you

1:13:08

just never

1:13:11

It would be very funny if you did, but I know that

1:13:14

you don't. No. Mm-mm. It's very

1:13:16

positive

1:13:16

and, like, very,

1:13:19

like, empowering, I guess. for, like,

1:13:21

it's like It's a queen with AVQZ Yes.

1:13:23

Okay. It is. And her music is very different,

1:13:25

and I just love

1:13:27

her. She's very

1:13:28

unique and very,

1:13:30

like She's younger than me. I'm out. I love her. She is pretty young. But

1:13:33

she's awesome

1:13:35

and she is awesome

1:13:37

content creator as well,

1:13:38

which I didn't know that about her until I started following her on Instagram, and I realized that she actually makes like a lot of really content to

1:13:41

like reels and

1:13:43

stuff like that.

1:13:44

So I like her. But,

1:13:46

yeah, she definitely has music that is not like safe for the little ears, so don't check that out

1:13:48

while

1:13:50

you're

1:13:51

like driving to the kids to

1:13:53

school or anything. But Yeah. Yeah. So that wasn't those were my my top two. I don't even wanna list my

1:13:55

last ones because That's fine.

1:13:58

I think tabs are just

1:13:59

too bad. Yes. I'm worried

1:14:02

for you. How about how about you, Melissa? Well, TikTok thinks my favorite song is I made you

1:14:04

look by

1:14:08

Meghan Trainer. and I don't know

1:14:10

that it is, but, like, I don't have another answer because I hear it all freaking time. So I'm gonna go

1:14:12

with that

1:14:15

just by default. Yeah. I don't really

1:14:17

listen to the radio. I listen to, like, I listen to old music. Like, my

1:14:19

husband always makes fun of me for that. He's

1:14:22

like, you don't know any songs that came

1:14:24

out. this year.

1:14:26

And I really don't I listen to a

1:14:28

lot of old music too. I've come to

1:14:29

realize and I just, like, I don't even

1:14:32

care. You know, I'm just, like, those are

1:14:33

the songs I like. My

1:14:34

family gets so concerned when I start

1:14:36

ALEXA and I

1:14:39

start, like, nineties country or, you know,

1:14:41

you can totally see my mood.

1:14:43

I'm