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Other exclusions may apply. Offer ends July 31, 2024.

1:31

See site for details. The

1:49

regulator has asked 20 big

1:52

firms for answers. And

1:54

as annuity sales reach a £5

1:56

billion high, listeners ask, what is

1:59

an annuity? And where are the shops that

2:01

sell them? But first, two million

2:03

of the poorest households have seen the

2:05

amount they owe their energy supplier double

2:07

over the past year. This

2:09

new analysis of debt figures has been

2:11

given to Moneybox by the consultancy firm,

2:13

Beringa. It says people who have fallen

2:15

behind on their payments now owe, on average, £1,100

2:17

double what they owed a year ago. There

2:22

was some relief for the future on Friday,

2:24

when the regulator, Ofgem, lowered the cap on

2:27

the price of electricity and gas. After

2:29

a rise in the standing charge for most

2:31

customers, a typical household bill would fall

2:33

by 12%. But

2:36

Ofgem also reported that debt to

2:38

electricity and gas suppliers stands at

2:40

a record £3.1 billion. Our

2:44

reporter, Sarah Rogers, went to Shropshire to meet

2:46

Cordelia. She's registered with her

2:48

supplier as vulnerable, but had racked up £2,000

2:50

of energy debt. So

2:55

this is the oil tank to the side of your

2:57

house then. You've just had this filled up,

2:59

have you? This is how you heat your

3:02

home. Yes, it is. It probably

3:04

takes just over a thousand litres, I think. I'm

3:06

not very well up on this sort of thing.

3:08

How long will that last you? Well,

3:11

we're very frugal with it and hopefully

3:13

it'll last, hopefully maybe

3:15

until this time next year when I can

3:17

apply for another grant to get another... So

3:19

grant money paid for this oil? Totally, yeah.

3:22

Make sure. Properly

3:27

dry my feet on the mat on the way in. So

3:31

yeah, through to the lounge. A

3:33

good old log burner. And

3:36

those are the compressed heat logs.

3:39

We try to be

3:41

as frugal as we possibly can with

3:43

them. Cordelia says her debt started mounting

3:45

after health problems caused by her epilepsy

3:47

stopped her from going to work for

3:49

a number of years. However,

3:52

she had more recently found a job, but

3:54

her partner is now struggling with his

3:56

health. My husband, because

3:58

he's fighting cancer... So he feels the cold

4:01

more acutely. We light the fire at

4:03

about six o'clock every night and

4:05

stay in here. And

4:07

this is the room that we heat.

4:10

We don't heat any other room in the property

4:12

at all. How

4:15

have things been for you

4:17

over the last couple of years, having this debt

4:19

hanging over you, how much was it up to

4:21

at one point? My debt was about 2000 pounds,

4:23

just over. And

4:26

it was extremely hard to try and deal

4:28

with it. And the enormity of

4:30

it was somewhat depressing.

4:33

And it was just another thing to

4:35

add to the list of problems that we

4:37

had. And what were some of the things

4:40

that you were thinking about in terms of

4:42

making money or staying warm? At one stage,

4:44

I was contemplating taking an axe to some

4:46

of the old pieces of furniture in the

4:49

garage in

4:51

order to save money. You've

4:54

been talking to me about how frugally you

4:56

have been living and have been putting back,

4:58

but something unusual has just

5:00

happened, hasn't it? You found out today

5:02

that your energy debt

5:04

has finally been cleared. How do you feel

5:06

about that and how did you do it?

5:10

It's taking a long time to sink in, to

5:12

be honest, because I don't

5:15

regularly get good news and for it

5:17

to be in credit, that's just

5:20

wonderful. It's been a lot of

5:22

hard work applying for loads of grants

5:25

to as many funding

5:27

bodies as possible. And that's

5:29

not easy, it's not an

5:31

easy process. You've got

5:34

this credit now, but I know your

5:36

personal situation has changed. Just tell me

5:38

about that. Yes, unfortunately,

5:40

I lost my job last week. And

5:43

so here we go again.

5:45

It's another worry as to how we're going to

5:49

stay out of being

5:52

in the red. Has a massive weight

5:54

been lifted today? Yes, it has, to

5:56

be honest. Yes, it's a jigsaw piece

5:59

in a big. picture but it's

6:01

definitely another one that I can tick off off

6:03

the list of you know outstanding

6:07

debts that we need to try and tackle so that's

6:09

a big one gone. Cordelia talking to

6:11

Sarah Rogers and Sarah's with us now.

6:13

Sarah where did that help come from? Well

6:15

she actually got several grants one was from her

6:17

local council and some from some cancer charities as

6:19

well to help pay that off. Yeah

6:21

good for her and hard work to do

6:23

as she said but Beringa of course is

6:26

reporting though that others are seeing the level

6:28

of debt they owe their suppliers double. So

6:30

just to be clear on who we're talking about

6:33

here the figures relate to people who are already

6:35

struggling so people who are behind on their payments

6:37

or perhaps don't have a payment plan they say

6:39

that's because the customer has too little money or

6:41

income for any plan to be viable and that

6:44

debt has risen from 550 pounds at the end

6:46

of 2022 to 1100 pounds at the end of

6:48

last year

6:52

so double and it's worth pointing out though

6:55

that this is different to regular debt that

6:57

people may find themselves in. Seasons

6:59

change and they use more or less

7:02

energy and it balances out over the year

7:04

and just to let you know to get

7:06

the numbers Beringa analyzed the debt books of

7:09

nine energy companies that they work with we

7:11

can't see that information because it's commercially sensitive

7:13

but we're told the data represents 40% of

7:15

the industry which is a total

7:18

of 13 million households.

7:21

And what has the energy industry said about those

7:23

numbers? Well both the regulator

7:25

Ofgem and Energy UK which

7:27

represents companies say they are

7:29

aware that debt is rising.

7:32

Ofgem says suppliers must be more

7:34

proactive in helping customers. Energy

7:37

UK says suppliers are doing all they can

7:39

but there's only so much they can do

7:41

and there needs to be targeted bill support

7:43

that's fit for purpose and the

7:45

government said they are providing significant financial support

7:47

to those who need it most so things

7:50

like the cost of living payments and

7:52

150 pounds warm home discount. Thanks

7:54

Sarah. Well listening to all that

7:56

is energy expert Eleanor Taylor from

7:58

Beringa. Eleanor Taylor, your

8:01

data from these nine suppliers shows that

8:03

debt missed payments have doubled in a

8:05

year. What's caused that? So

8:08

effectively we've seen households that when their

8:10

energy bill is due they don't have

8:12

sufficient funds to cover that and so

8:14

you know on a typical quarterly basis

8:16

we're seeing these households being billed. The

8:18

amount of debt that they're rowing is

8:20

just continuing to grow with each of

8:22

those billing periods so the households are

8:24

struggling more so and more so and

8:26

not really finding an obvious way out

8:28

of this situation. So I think we

8:30

start to hear more and more stories

8:32

like Cordelia's where they're facing really difficult

8:34

choices of do they pay for heating

8:36

their home versus putting food on the table.

8:38

So I think we're seeing a lot of people

8:40

in a really challenging situation. Yes

8:42

and Ofgem says that suppliers should

8:45

be more proactive about this. What

8:47

can they do? Sure

8:50

so I think there are a

8:52

couple of ways that suppliers can be proactive.

8:54

So I think the first thing is really

8:56

looking at and understanding what is going on

8:58

within their debt books and their customer bases.

9:00

So one of the things our findings showed

9:03

was at a headline level there were fewer

9:05

numbers of households that were behind on their payment

9:07

plan than it was the balance of the amount

9:09

they owed had doubled. So that's the first step

9:11

is really looking at and understanding the numbers

9:14

within their customer base and understanding those

9:16

those shifts in trends of what's happening.

9:18

But secondly it's about being proactive and

9:20

actually reaching out and engaging the customer

9:22

knowing that those channels for them to

9:24

communicate when their circumstances are changing and

9:27

to be open every time they are

9:29

calling and contacting their supplier is an

9:31

opportunity for that supplier to understand more

9:33

about their circumstances and try and agree

9:35

a payment plan to work for them.

9:38

Yes and Cordelia did get help but

9:40

what about people who don't and can't

9:42

pay this money? What will happen to

9:44

those debts? So

9:46

effectively where a debt is not able to be

9:48

paid off by the customer that will start

9:50

to be classed as bad debt by the energy

9:53

supplier so effectively debt

9:55

they do not expect to ever be repaid

9:57

and that debt will end up being written

9:59

off. And I think there's

10:01

an important bottom line here that no one

10:03

wins where bad debt is concerned. The higher

10:06

level of bad debt there is within energy,

10:08

the more those costs need to be spread

10:10

across the energy suppliers and their customers. Yes,

10:13

you say, and their customers. And of

10:15

course, Ofgem announced its new price cap

10:17

yesterday on Friday. It also said 24

10:20

million customers will be paying an extra £28 a year to

10:22

help suppliers cope

10:24

with this debt. And I have had so

10:27

many tweets and emails this morning on that

10:29

very point. One

10:32

said, I'm raging at this. And others said,

10:34

shouldn't the liability be with the energy companies?

10:36

Why are we paying it? So

10:39

I think that the charge being brought

10:41

in by Ofgem shows the severity of

10:43

the situation. And as we've heard, 3.1

10:45

billion pounds of energy debt is an

10:47

unprecedented position for us to find ourselves

10:49

in. So I think energy suppliers do

10:51

plan and forecast a certain amount of

10:53

debt to not be paid. But the

10:55

level that we're seeing is so unprecedented

10:57

that it's not a sustainable situation, I

10:59

think, for them to just be forced

11:01

to manage it themselves. But isn't that

11:03

their fault? I mean, you

11:05

work with them, you help them be more

11:08

proactive. But because they haven't done that in

11:10

the past, these debts have grown. Well,

11:13

I think that the growing debt we're seeing

11:15

is reflective of a wider challenge across society

11:17

at the moment that we've come up, you

11:19

know, we are living through a period where

11:21

the cost of living is exceptionally high. And

11:24

whilst energy prices are starting to come back

11:26

down from what has been record highs, we

11:28

know households are feeling the pain across multiple

11:30

aspects. So realistically, these customers are in debt

11:32

to their energy supplier, probably also in debt

11:34

to other companies as well. Eleanor

11:37

Taylor from Beringa Tanks. And if you are

11:39

in difficulties with your bill, always talk to

11:41

your energy supplier first. They have to do

11:43

something. What that is remains to be

11:45

seen, but they have to do something. So contact them first. And

11:47

of course, places like Citizens Advice. Twenty

11:53

of the biggest financial advice terms have been

11:55

told by the regulator that they must give

11:57

details of the services they provide to customers.

12:00

who pay them fees for ongoing advice.

12:02

The Financial Conduct Authority has written to the

12:04

companies as part of its

12:07

enforcement of the new consumer duty.

12:09

Regular listeners will recall that further

12:11

advisors must put the needs of

12:14

their customers first. The regulator said

12:16

it's very concerned that some companies

12:18

are charging clients for a service

12:20

they don't benefit from or don't

12:22

need, and in some cases don't

12:24

even get. Well, with me in

12:26

the studio is Keith Richards. He's

12:28

chief executive of the Consumer Duty

12:30

Alliance, which is a not-for-profit professional

12:33

body, which helps advisors implement

12:35

that consumer duty. Keith,

12:37

would you just tell us first how much

12:39

do advisors charge for this ongoing advice? It

12:43

varies, Paul, and it varies really relevant

12:45

to the individual needs of each

12:47

and every client. So, and it's one of

12:49

the frustrations, I guess, that some consumers have

12:52

when it's very difficult to compare

12:54

prices, but advisors

12:56

are now starting to recognize

12:58

the importance of clearly

13:01

demonstrating the cost of their service

13:03

in a way that is understandable.

13:05

Typically, advisors will charge one

13:07

to 2% for initial advice, and that's

13:10

one to 2% of the investible assets. That

13:12

percentage will be adjusted and

13:14

downwards for larger sums.

13:18

Yes, and some of them do charge

13:20

a percentage every year, don't they, for

13:22

this ongoing advice? Is that

13:24

reasonable? Does it take five times as

13:26

long to advise someone with 100,000 pounds as

13:29

it does if they have 20,000 pounds? Yeah,

13:31

I mean, some consumers actually call on their

13:33

advisor regularly throughout the year, so the ongoing

13:35

service charge for them is almost certainly valued

13:38

for money. I think what the

13:40

FCA are really honing in on is to

13:42

force firms to actually think about whether they've

13:44

actually provided any service for

13:47

a consumer who, in good faith, agreed

13:49

to maybe a half percent charge

13:51

for an ongoing service, but that hasn't really

13:54

benefited from it, and that's where we're seeing

13:56

good practice coming into the market. Yes, you

13:58

say it's coming in. the FCA,

14:00

the regulator wants responses by Thursday on

14:03

this, have firms in your

14:05

experience reviewed fair value under the consumer

14:07

duty? Yeah, every firm has had to

14:09

review fair value, but I think what

14:11

we're seeing, you know, a very important

14:13

part of the FCA's role now is

14:15

to share where they're seeing good practice

14:17

in the market versus those that are

14:19

lagging behind. And in fact, it's important

14:21

that the recent updates just this week

14:24

actually started with a statement

14:26

saying that they welcome the improvements

14:28

by many firms to deliver better

14:30

outcomes for their customers. But of course, we're

14:33

not to say however, here's some examples where

14:35

firms might be lagging behind. Yes,

14:37

that's a bit gently, isn't it? Stay

14:40

with us, Keith. But we asked Simon

14:42

Harrington from the Personal Investment Management and

14:44

Financial Advice Association, that's a trade body

14:46

for firms of that nature in the

14:48

business. And we asked him if the

14:50

amount customers are charged are in fact

14:52

fair. In going through the

14:54

journey of implementing the consumer duty, firms

14:57

will have come to the conclusion and

14:59

been able to justify that the price

15:01

that they charge provides

15:03

fair value. And value

15:05

is a very, very subjective and

15:08

very, very nebulous thing. And

15:10

ultimately, it would be a mistake, in

15:12

my view, to see value

15:15

solely through the lens of return of

15:17

investment minus the price that you pay.

15:20

The value of financial advice in

15:22

particular is about more than just

15:24

financial performance. It is about

15:26

the certainty that it provides. It

15:28

is about stripping away the complexity

15:31

of very, very, very complex

15:33

financial decisions. And

15:35

a lot of firms have assessed their proposition

15:38

and come to the conclusion that the price that

15:40

they offer offers more than fair value.

15:43

And I think they are right to say

15:45

that. So Keith Richards, Simon Harrington

15:47

doesn't seem to think this is a big

15:49

problem, that firms do offer good value, have

15:51

checked things. Is that your

15:53

experience? I think what

15:55

we're seeing Paul is firms are adjusting

15:57

their charging models, they are taking very

16:00

seriously their consumer duty responsibility. So

16:02

to say that there is no room for

16:05

improvement would be wrong and we're already seeing

16:07

some firms switching to fixed fees for example

16:10

or turning to hourly rates. I

16:12

think Simon's

16:15

point about fair

16:17

value being quite subjective is true.

16:20

So over 80% of new clients

16:22

usually come from a recommendation and

16:24

they then have the person that's

16:26

referred them demonstrating a

16:28

level of value. Someone

16:30

that hasn't got that recommendation of course it's

16:32

very difficult to understand what fair value really

16:35

means. Yes, one of the problems is that

16:37

it can be hard to understand it.

16:39

It can also be hard to compare charges

16:41

can't you because if you go on an

16:43

advisors website you very rarely see the charges

16:46

on the front page and sometimes they're

16:48

very hard to find anywhere on the website.

16:50

Should they be doing more to say this

16:52

is what we charge? Absolutely and I think

16:55

a lot of firms are making a big

16:57

effort to try to demonstrate in cash

17:00

terms. So whether percentage charges are used

17:02

it's got to be converted into what

17:05

that means financially in cash terms and

17:07

I think firms are getting braver.

17:09

I think the point that advisors have kind of

17:11

tried to defend themselves on is they don't really

17:14

know what the true cost is until they properly

17:16

assessed what the consumer needs. Yes, I

17:18

suppose that's true but if they're charging half of a

17:20

cent it doesn't sound very much but if you've got

17:22

a lot of money it can be, can't it? What's

17:25

your advice for someone listening who needs advice

17:27

or thinks they probably need advice but is

17:29

worried about what it will cost? Yeah,

17:32

never be worried about the cost because

17:34

every advisor will absolutely discuss what their

17:37

charging structures are what they'll do for

17:39

it and they'll convert that into a

17:41

cash cost. So if you have concerns

17:43

even for existing clients if you're not

17:45

quite sure what you're being charged for

17:48

annually talk to your advisor. Right

17:51

and some of them will give you a first meeting free weren't

17:53

they as well. Kate Richards from

17:55

Consumer GC Alliance thanks. Now before

17:57

we move on I have an apology to you.

18:00

our loyal listeners. To accept quite rightly,

18:02

that is, you hear something on Moneybox.

18:04

It's true, especially back to if I

18:06

say it. Even more so if I

18:08

say it three times. Well, last week

18:10

I said that most couples in England

18:12

and Wales were not married or in

18:14

a civil partnership. I'd misinterpreted

18:16

a paragraph in a report from the

18:18

Office for National Statistics. In fact, in

18:21

2022 there were about 15 million

18:23

couples and of those just over

18:25

11.5 million were

18:27

married to each other. Three and a

18:30

half million were cohabiting and that's less

18:32

than a quarter of couples, not more

18:34

than half. There goes my hope for

18:36

ever presenting more or less. Now,

18:39

last year more people bought annuities with

18:42

their pension pots than in any year

18:44

since it stopped being compulsory in 2014.

18:46

Sales totaled £5.2 billion and the Association

18:52

of British Insurers has put out those figures.

18:54

An annuity is a deal with an insurance

18:57

firm. You give them a lump sum, they

18:59

promise you a guaranteed income for the

19:02

rest of your life. But that income

19:04

depends on interest rates at the time

19:06

you buy the annuity and with rising

19:08

interest rates that fixed guaranteed amount has

19:11

doubled on a few years ago when

19:13

it seemed very poor value. So should

19:15

you consider using your pension pot to

19:17

give a guaranteed income until you die?

19:20

Lots of you have been getting in touch about

19:22

this, like this email from Peter. Shop

19:25

around, says the pension company booklet. Where

19:27

are the annuity shops? Can you advise

19:29

listeners how to choose between all the

19:31

options? Isn't an annuity going

19:34

to be the best option for most people?

19:36

How can someone find the best

19:38

inflation proof annuity? Do you have

19:40

any suggestions? Thanks. Peter,

19:43

reflecting the confusion many people feel

19:45

about annuities, well with us is

19:47

John Somerville, he's Director of Financial

19:49

Services at the London Institute of

19:51

Banking and Finance. John

19:53

Somerville, before we come to Peter's question briefly, tell

19:55

us perhaps a bit better than I did, what

19:57

an annuity is and what the choices are. Hi

20:01

Paul, and I'd say you gave a

20:03

very, very good synopsis of what an

20:05

annuity is, but in a nutshell, an

20:07

annuity provides you with a regular guaranteed

20:09

income in retirement. You

20:11

can buy an annuity with some or all of your

20:14

pension pot. It pays an income

20:16

for either life or actually for an agreed

20:18

number of years, depending on the options that

20:20

you take. And when you use

20:22

money from your pension pot to buy an annuity,

20:24

you can take, first of all, up to a

20:26

quarter of it as tax-free cash, and then you

20:28

can use the rest of it to

20:30

purchase the annuity. And

20:33

what about this question of rising with

20:35

inflation, which Peter seemed to suggest

20:38

was it was a good idea? Well,

20:40

most people don't do that. Do they? They

20:42

buy a float rate annuity, as I understand it, that never

20:44

goes up. Yes, and

20:46

there are several different types of annuities, and you

20:48

can have them in index length and what have

20:51

you. And what I would say is

20:53

it's very much dependent on the individual's needs at

20:55

the time that they retire. And

20:57

as we know, there are so many

20:59

more options other than annuities as well

21:02

to consider. So good, solid financial advice

21:04

is often recommended in these circumstances when

21:06

an individual circumstances are more

21:08

and more complex. The

21:11

Association of British Insurers that put out

21:13

those annuity figures also found that seven

21:15

out of 10 people who bought an annuity

21:17

last year didn't get financial

21:19

advice. Does that worry you? It

21:22

does worry me. And I think some of

21:24

this is down to people's reluctance

21:26

to find financial advice because, as Keith

21:28

said in the previous section,

21:32

people are unsure about the cost of financial advice and

21:34

what they're going to get from it and what protections

21:37

they're going to get. And I

21:39

think that actually when people are opened

21:41

up to the possibility of taking financial

21:43

advice, they understand actually its importance simply

21:46

because this decision is complex and

21:49

quite frankly for the rest of your life. So

21:52

it's very important to get it right. And

21:54

why was there such a huge demand for

21:56

annuities last year, this recent record amount, 5.2

21:59

billion quid? It's quite simply as

22:01

you said already down to interest rates. Interest

22:04

rates have driven annuity rates up.

22:06

I will say however that that's been tempered in

22:09

the last two or three months simply because the

22:11

Bank of England's interest rates have remained static. This

22:14

meant that some annuities have

22:17

fallen back slightly in the early part of this year.

22:20

Mmm, so you've got to be careful and of course

22:22

once you've bought it, it's generally fixed for life. I

22:24

mean it may go up with inflation or it may

22:26

not but it's a fixed amount for life. So but

22:28

if you buy it when interest rates are high,

22:30

you're doing well. Pizza rates is an

22:32

important point though doesn't it? We're told to shop around

22:35

aren't we all the time? Where

22:37

are the annuity shops? I'd really put that

22:39

brilliantly. How do you find

22:41

the best deal? 70% of people found it

22:43

by themselves without going to a financial advisor.

22:46

That's true and obviously in itself

22:49

and you and I remember we

22:51

discussed this, we

22:53

used to search for annuity rates on the old

22:56

teletext on TVs and it was

22:58

available even then. You're aging me a

23:00

lot. Sorry Paul, you clearly

23:02

look so good for your age.

23:06

But I would say that there are several

23:08

shops online. So there are comparison sites online,

23:10

but I would give you a good starting

23:12

point here by going to the government's money

23:15

helper website, independent

23:17

and good solid guidance.

23:19

But I will say this is guidance not

23:21

advice. This gives you a difference

23:25

of the different rates that are available. And actually

23:27

when you shop on there, the rates between the

23:29

first and the sixth rated insurance

23:32

company on there could be as much as £500 a year. Yeah,

23:35

so it's important to do it well. And just

23:37

briefly if you buy an annuity, it's a lot

23:39

of money, maybe all your pension savings. People ask

23:42

me what happens if the company goes bust very

23:44

briefly? You're covered by

23:46

the Financial Services Compensation Scheme. So

23:48

your money is safe. It is safe. John

23:51

Somerville, London Institute of Banking and

23:53

Finance. Thanks. Well on

23:55

Wednesday Moneybox Live is breaking out

23:57

of the studio to hear how

23:59

children are being taught financial literacy.

24:02

Here's our very own Felicity Hanna with

24:04

a special guest. Yes Paul,

24:06

I'm going back to school and I'm

24:08

taking a teacher with me. Bobby Seagull,

24:10

the maths teacher and broadcaster, is coming

24:12

too. Yes, learning about money is part

24:15

of the curriculum. But Flis, did you know

24:17

that more than three quarters of teachers say

24:19

young people are leaving school without

24:21

the money skills they need for adulthood? So

24:24

we decided that we're going to talk

24:26

to the experts about how to teach children

24:28

this stuff. And we'll hear from some children

24:30

who have been learning about money. Bobby,

24:32

no surprise maths tests for them. Only

24:34

for you Flis. I really hope that's not true.

24:37

Anyway, listen live on Wednesday at three

24:39

when we're at a school in Wakefield

24:41

hearing how pupils there are being taught

24:43

about pensions, budgeting and more. We'll catch

24:45

you afterwards on BBC Sounds. Unmissable.

24:48

And of course it's Moneybox if

24:50

you want to keep your financial

24:52

education up to date. And both

24:54

programmes are on our podcast delivered

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24:58

hours after we broadcast live. Moneybox

25:00

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25:05

4. And both, unmissable if you

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subscribe. Your stories help us

25:09

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25:11

be. So email us with your lessons

25:13

and ideas. Moneybox at bbc.co.uk.

25:17

We do read them all and you might get on the

25:19

show. In this podcast the

25:21

reporter was Sarah Rogers, researcher Sandra

25:23

Hardiel and Joe Krasner, studio manager

25:25

Natalie Laddley. Our editor is Jess

25:28

Quayle. I'm Paul Lewis and this

25:30

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25:32

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25:34

now today again. Hello,

25:37

it's Amol Rajan here and it's Nick

25:39

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25:41

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25:43

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25:46

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25:48

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be they a spy chief, a historian,

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say it. The WhatsApps show the character

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If the next scan says nothing's working,

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