Ben is joined by Randall Kanna to discuss her personal life and career.  We discuss why she chose not to pursue a CS degree, the fortitude it took to get started in tech as a woman, and how she's paving the path for engineers without CS degrees.

Randall is a senior engineer and author.

Links - 

• https://www.amazon.com/Cant-Hurt-Me-Master-Your/dp/1544512287
• https://thebootstrappedfounder.com/zero-to-sold/
• https://twitter.com/dvassallo

Transcript -
Ben:
Welcome to this episode of the More Than Code podcast. Today, we have Randall Kanna joining us today. I'm really excited to have you here, Randall. Thanks for joining us.

Randall:
Thank you. I'm so glad to be here.

Ben:
All right. So, let's start with kind of the beginning. Where did you grow up?

Randall:
Yeah, so I grew up in Sacramento, California, about two hours outside of the city in East Sacramento. My parents actually still live in that same area.

Ben:
Nice, and you're in San Francisco now?

Randall:
Yeah, I'm in the Bay Area. I just moved to Marin a little bit before COVID, so that was actually great timing because a little more space right now and have a lot of pets. So, they have a little bit more room.

Ben:
Nice. What pets do you have?

Randall:
I have a big German Shepherd and then I have two cats.

Ben:
Oh, that can't be easy on an apartment, right?

Randall:
Yeah. It was tough, and SF living when you have a shoe box and you're trying to raise an 80 pound dog.

Ben:
Nice.What actually took you to the Bay Area?

Randall:
So, a coding bootcamp. Kind of my dream was to work at Facebook or Google and that dream has changed, obviously, but I went to a coding boot camp about six years ago and kind of moved to the city, moved to a little bunk bed in Chinatown, which was a really crazy, fun experience. And I ended up just staying in the city for my first job after my bootcamp and kind of been around the area ever since.

Ben:
That's cool. How did you find the bootcamp experience? What's it? Was it worth it? Was it a good way to intro to the city? Because it seems kind of intimidating, right? The idea of moving to a new city for a new career for a bootcamp all at once.

Randall:
Oh, yeah, it was absolutely terrifying. I'm somewhat introverted, so going to a bootcamp like that was a terrifying experience. And in those days, it was like six years ago. I don't know if I can say in those days for six years ago, but six years ago, bootcamps were very different, very rigorous and difficult. So, some people compared it to getting a degree at an Ivy League school of how difficult it was. So, it was definitely a really rough experience. I was there for about three months, onsite almost every single day, except for some Sundays. So, overall it was difficult, but also a really fun experience, and I learned a lot and I got a job two weeks after the bootcamp. So, it really worked out for me.

Ben:
That's pretty great. Now, did the bootcamp place you, or did you find that job on your own?

Randall:
So, they actually had a career week where they spent a week going over your resume, interviewing skills, everything you can imagine of how to prepare you for a job. And because I went so in depth with working on my LinkedIn profile, that the company that eventually hired me reached out to me. But during that whole time, I was interviewing at multiple places, including Apple. So, I kind of had a lot of things in my back pocket, but I was really lucky that it worked out how it did at my first company.

Ben:
Cool. How are you liking San Fran? Do you plan to stay?

Randall:
Eh.

Ben:
[inaudible 00:03:32] San Fran. I mean the Bay Area. I guess, for those of us not there, we tend to think of it all as one thing, and I know it's actually two things.

Randall:
Oh, one big thing, really. I guess I'll have to get back to you if I leave the area in the next few years or not. I've already kind of moved out of the area, but yeah, right now I think it's a really great place to be if you can be in person at a company. And I think that's really fun and such an amazing experience, but with COVID right now, not the ideal place I would want to live.

Ben:
Do you think the COVID will cause this mass exodus from cities and San Francisco and the Bay Area, like all the articles are predicting?

Randall:
Yeah, I definitely think so. I think a lot of people our age right now are just naturally leaving, though, so I think that's also adding to it. I left right before COVID, and it was really good decision, but I know a ton of people leaving the city and my company right now, I just started a new job and they're giving up their lease in the city.

Ben:
Oh, wow. So, you're going full remote?

Randall:
Yeah. So, I just started actually this week, and I'll be permanently remote, but they're actually even just completely investing in remote work right now, which I really love.

Ben:
Interesting. Yeah. So, I moved to Boston for a job at Wayfair and then COVID happened. And when I took the job, we had discussed me going remote, because previous to this, I've had about a decade of full remote experience and COVID just kind of accelerated that timeline. So, that's why I'm now back down south in Georgia and going full remote for Wayfair now.

Randall:
Oh, that's awesome. I love Wayfair.

Ben:
Definitely interesting times.

Randall:
Yeah. Yeah. I love how companies are a little more open right now with remote.

Ben:
Yeah. Do you see yourself staying in the area and working remote? Would you prefer to stay remote, or is it too early to tell for you if you want to go back into the office?

Randall:
Yeah. I think it's too early to tell. I'll have to see how it plays out. It's hard to continue paying expensive Bay Area rent when you can't go anywhere, can't see anyone, can't take advantage of all the great things that the Bay Area offers.

Ben:
Yeah. That's got to be pretty painful. I know it was painful in Boston. That's nothing to the Bay Area.

Randall:
Yeah. Very expensive here. They say rent's dropping in the city though, substantially, but I have yet to see it.

Ben:
Interesting. So, your family, are they all back in Sacramento, or where are they spread out?

Randall:
They're a lot in Sacramento. My sister Madison is actually an engineer as well, and her company is remote right now, but they weren't in the past. It's called Keeper Security, so she's living in Sacramento and then my parents are in East Sacramento.

Ben:
Cool. How did they like you being away?

Randall:
They don't love it. Yeah. They miss me a lot. I was homeschooled my whole life, so very close knit family.

Ben:
Interesting. I was homeschooled with my whole life as well.

Randall:
Wow. That's so rare.

Ben:
[crosstalk 00:06:39] Yeah.

Randall:
Well, my mom actually co-founded homeschool.com, so I pretty much extensively used her curriculum.

Ben:
That's got to be the worst, actually.

Randall:
Yeah, it's difficult when your mom literally wrote the book on it.

Ben:
Okay. So, this leads me to new questions. Are you a fan of homeschooling? If you had kids, would you choose to homeschool?

Randall:
Oh, my gosh. That's a good question. What would you do?

Ben:
I would not, actually.

Randall:
Wow.

Ben:
So, I found the experience good ...