0:03

Good morning and welcome to morning Joe

0:05

it is Friday October 13th. We are following

0:08

fast moving developments out of Israel.

0:10

The country's military is telling

0:13

us more than a million people telling more

0:15

than a million people to leave their homes

0:17

this morning as it prepares

0:20

a potential full-scale ground

0:22

invasion in the wake of the terror

0:25

attacks by Hamas. We'll have a live report

0:27

for the very latest on the ground there plus

0:29

an update on the Biden administration's

0:32

efforts to prevent further escalation

0:34

in the region with top officials on

0:37

the ground this morning in Israel and

0:39

Jordan. Also ahead the

0:41

Republican-led chaos on Capitol

0:43

Hill reached yet another level last

0:45

night when the party's nominee

0:47

for speaker just dropped out

0:50

of the race. We'll talk about how

0:52

that impacts the country and

0:55

world events along with Joe, Willie

0:57

and me we have the host of Way Too Early

0:59

White House Bureau Chief at Politico Jonathan

1:02

Lemire and President Emeritus

1:04

of the Council on Foreign Relations Richard

1:07

Haas is with us here in New York as well. Nearly

1:10

a week into the war the atrocities

1:13

carried out by Hamas are

1:15

still coming to light. On social

1:17

media yesterday the Israeli Defense Forces

1:19

released photos showing the

1:21

burnt and decapitated bodies

1:24

of babies. Due to

1:26

their graphic nature we're not going to show

1:29

the images here this morning. Among the many Israelis

1:32

missing, 10 members of a

1:34

family who descended from a Holocaust

1:36

escapee who himself passed

1:39

away just last year. Speaking

1:42

in Tel Aviv yesterday US Secretary

1:44

of State Anthony Blinken described some of the

1:46

horrors he had been shown in photos.

1:51

It's hard to find the right words. It's

1:57

beyond what anyone would ever

1:59

ever want to imagine, much

2:02

less actually see and

2:05

God forbid experience. A

2:08

baby, an infant, riddled

2:11

with bullets, soldiers

2:16

beheaded,

2:18

young people burned alive in

2:20

their cars or

2:23

in their highway rooms. I

2:27

could go on, but

2:31

it's simply depravity

2:34

in the worst imaginable

2:36

way.

2:38

Meanwhile, in its ongoing response

2:41

to the terrorist ambush and ahead of a

2:43

potential ground invasion of Gaza, Israel's

2:45

military has called for the entire

2:48

population of the northern half of Gaza

2:50

to move to southern Gaza within

2:52

the next 24 hours. That area home

2:55

to just over 1 million people accounts for

2:57

about half of the territory's population.

3:00

The United Nations warning such a move would be

3:02

impossible without devastating humanitarian

3:05

consequences. The UN has asked for the

3:07

order to be rescinded to avoid

3:09

transforming quote, what is already a tragedy

3:12

into a calamitous situation. Hamas

3:14

has told Palestinians not to comply

3:16

with Israeli demands, calling it quote, psychological

3:20

warfare. Join us now from the Israel-Gaza

3:23

border, NBC chief foreign correspondent Richard

3:25

Engel. Richard, thank

3:27

you for being with us again this morning. What more can you

3:29

tell us about the practicality

3:31

of what Israel has requested, which is that the

3:34

northern half of Gaza moved to the southern

3:36

half of Gaza in the next 24 hours? And

3:41

it is asking people to do that while

3:43

they are under attack, while they are sealed

3:45

off, and while the power, electricity,

3:48

gas, all supplies have been cut

3:51

off. So people are, it

3:53

is not an organized evacuation

3:55

in any way. People have just been told leave

3:58

by any means possible. You can see behind

4:00

me right now, that is the

4:03

Northern Gaza Strip, that is Gaza

4:05

City. That is the most populated

4:07

part of Gaza. As you said, there

4:09

are just over two million people in

4:11

the Gaza Strip. It is broken up

4:13

into roughly two heavily

4:16

populated areas, the north with Gaza City

4:18

and then in the south. And what Israel has done

4:21

in Hanyunas in the south and what Israel has

4:23

said, everyone should leave

4:25

the north, evacuate Gaza City,

4:28

evacuate an entire city of a million people

4:30

and get in their cars, get in donkey

4:33

carts, and there are still donkey carts in use

4:35

in Gaza and moved

4:37

south, moved below the

4:39

Wadi Gaza Valley. And we've

4:42

spoken this morning with people inside Gaza,

4:44

they are trying to do it. Hamas has

4:47

told them not to leave, not to obey this order,

4:49

but people are listening. And they

4:51

are packing whatever they can, taking

4:53

a little food, taking some supplies, if

4:56

they have any batteries, any gasoline,

4:58

they're taking out with them and they are trying

5:00

to move south. Overnight,

5:03

we heard some of the most intense bombardments

5:05

so far. We were here all night

5:08

and the incoming was intense,

5:10

one after the other after another, with

5:13

Israeli airstrikes, tank fire going

5:15

in, we heard small arms fire. And

5:17

even now we are hearing Israeli drones above

5:20

and this offensive is

5:22

continuing. We will see today

5:24

if now that Israel has given

5:27

this order for people to move south, if

5:30

the attacks do lessen to a degree,

5:33

that remains unknown. Hospital

5:35

officials inside Gaza also tell us

5:37

they're overwhelmed. There are thousands of dead

5:40

and injured and they are running out of supplies,

5:42

people are being treated on the floor, hospitals

5:45

are enormously crowded. So now

5:48

under attack, cut off, people

5:50

are taking what they can and trying to get out

5:53

of that city right now

5:54

and move to what could be a safer

5:57

area before what is anticipated

5:59

to be an Israeli.

5:59

Israeli onslaught into Gaza, and now

6:02

it seems quite clear that the onslaught will focus

6:04

on the north, on Gaza City. So,

6:07

Richard, let me ask you about that. Anticipated

6:09

onslaught, as you said, Israel has been responding

6:11

from the air to this point over the last week

6:14

or so. What could a ground

6:16

assault, a ground invasion by the Israeli

6:18

military look like here? Well,

6:23

one of the reasons that Israel says that it wants

6:25

people to leave is it is expecting

6:28

a massive fight. It is expecting that

6:31

Hamas is dug in. So, when

6:34

you expect to fight against an

6:36

entrenched enemy, you are going to bring

6:38

a lot of force to bear. So, Israel

6:40

has brought in tanks,

6:43

it has brought in artillery, and when they move

6:45

the tanks into the tight

6:48

streets of Gaza looking for Hamas

6:51

concerned about booby traps, trying to

6:54

destroy them, they will be firing a great

6:58

deal. So, this area could soon

7:00

become an open fire zone, and

7:02

I think that's why Israel is trying to tell people

7:05

leave the area right now. It

7:07

will be dangerous for the Israelis because Hamas

7:10

is dug in. It will be dangerous for

7:12

Hamas, clearly, but it will

7:14

be very dangerous for any Palestinians

7:17

who stay behind and are caught up in

7:19

what will soon be perhaps some of the most

7:21

intense urban fighting that we've seen anywhere

7:24

in the world in years. Richard,

7:26

could you explain to our viewers in America

7:30

why Egypt sealed its

7:33

border with Gaza and why they

7:35

sealed the border soon after the attack?

7:38

I dropped off on IFB. I'm sorry, I can't

7:40

hear you if you're asking. Okay,

7:43

very good. Thank you, Richard Engel. We'll

7:47

be asking Richard Haas that question. Richard Engel,

7:49

thank you so much, and please do everything

7:51

you can to be safe. Richard

7:54

Haas will ask you that same question.

7:57

Egypt, obviously.

7:59

No, no,

8:01

no friends of Hamas. Egypt,

8:04

who, of course, struck a peace deal with

8:06

Israel in the late 1970s. Talk

8:13

about why Egypt has sealed off

8:15

the border with Hamas,

8:17

because that obviously would allow a

8:20

lot of Palestinians to

8:22

escape. Egypt

8:24

used to administer the Gaza Strip

8:26

and did until the 1967 Six-Day War. They

8:30

know it all too well. There

8:32

has been infiltration over the years into Egypt

8:35

of people who were committing terrorist acts

8:37

within Egypt, among other things. So

8:39

they just shut down the border

8:41

as part of their larger effort to maintain internal

8:44

security. It's about that

8:47

simple. And that really explains

8:49

a larger point that Americans who are just now

8:51

tuning into this, the atrocities

8:53

that have happened and hearing about Israel

8:56

and Hamas,

8:59

and of course, the ongoing

9:02

Palestinian question. I

9:05

had noticed over the past 10, 15 years,

9:09

I'm sure you've noticed it even longer because

9:12

you've been so involved in this region for so long,

9:14

but a growing animosity toward

9:17

the Palestinian cause

9:19

because of Hamas, because of the Palestinian

9:21

Authority from Arab governments.

9:26

It used to be that the Arab League would get together.

9:28

They would unanimously vote against Israel.

9:31

They would vote for causes

9:33

that were near and dear to Hamas's heart. That

9:36

is no more. That's no longer,

9:38

in fact, most of the Sunni Arab world has

9:41

turned against Hamas and

9:44

by extension by those Palestinians

9:46

living in the Gaza Strip, which of course is an

9:49

ongoing tragedy. Why?

9:51

Lots of reasons. One is the principal backer

9:53

of Hamas is Iran. That

9:55

immediately puts a lot of the Sunni Arab

9:57

government, shall we say, on the ground. unnoticed.

10:01

People forget their history also, Joe. When

10:03

Saddam Hussein invaded and

10:06

occupied Kuwait, who was cheering

10:08

for Saddam Hussein? Well, it was the Palestinians.

10:11

A lot of the Sunni Arab governments have a pretty

10:13

long memory. They have no illusions

10:16

about that. Hamas, again, their

10:20

whole involvement with terrorism and other radical

10:22

groups doesn't make the Arab

10:25

governments comfortable. Arab governments would rather

10:27

normalize with Israel for the most part. The

10:29

one thing that Arab governments, though, Joe, have to be

10:32

careful of, and we see it in some ways

10:34

in the toing and froing with Saudi

10:36

policy here, is the Palestinians

10:40

still enjoy considerable popular support.

10:42

In some ways, the governments are in a different place in lots

10:45

of the Arab world than the quote-unquote Arab

10:47

street. So the governments have to be a little

10:49

bit careful not to get too far

10:51

out in front of their population. And if you have,

10:54

for example, Al Jazeera showing

10:56

all sorts of images, if we get

10:58

to the point where Israel does go in and force

11:00

and you see Palestinian civilians

11:03

getting hurt, it's just the sort of thing

11:05

that's going to make the governments really careful

11:08

because they face a situation then

11:10

where sympathy for Hamas and sympathy

11:12

for the Palestinians will grow. Well,

11:15

there's already, of course, a humanitarian

11:18

crisis that is growing

11:20

right now in Gaza, where those images are

11:22

coming out, of

11:25

children, of

11:27

elderly people being

11:32

hurt by the attacks. Many have died.

11:35

Richard, the question is, because obviously

11:38

Hamas knew this would happen. Hamas

11:42

just being blunt about it, if

11:45

an Israeli dies, then

11:48

that's a victory for Hamas. If a

11:50

Palestinian dies while Israel

11:52

is trying to go after Hamas terrorists,

11:55

that's also seen as a victory for

11:57

Hamas. They don't care if their people die.

11:59

In fact, They've said anybody

12:01

that tries to make peace with Israel

12:04

will be shot. So

12:06

the question is, Richard, with

12:09

the United Nations warning of a

12:12

coming humanitarian crisis that

12:15

many would say is already there, what

12:17

do the Israelis do? What is their

12:19

best move? They cannot allow Gaza

12:22

to remain run by

12:24

these terrorists who have won it without

12:27

an election since 2007. They have

12:29

to go in and they have to root out, I

12:32

was going to say ISIS, might as well be

12:35

ISIS, Hamas, but

12:37

how do they do it and avoid just

12:39

a catastrophic humanitarian crisis? So

12:42

let me be controversial here. There's

12:44

a difference between what Israel will do or likely

12:46

to do and what it should do. What I

12:48

fear it will do is go in and mass. I

12:51

think it'll be extraordinarily costly for

12:53

Israeli armed forces. Several will get

12:55

killed, will get captured. I

12:58

think it increases the odds dramatically.

13:00

If there's a massive Israeli campaign in Gaza,

13:03

the war will widen. That's just the sort of thing

13:05

I fear could bring Hezbollah and

13:07

others into the war. You

13:09

will get the global international response.

13:12

Again, Israel will lose some of

13:14

the high ground. Most of all, Joe,

13:16

I do not believe it will succeed

13:18

if success is defined as eliminating

13:21

Hamas. I fear it could actually work the other

13:23

way. I also think Israel has

13:26

better options. I would suggest two things. I

13:28

would say go after Hamas in a

13:30

discreet way, not in a mass way. Do targeted

13:33

attacks, whether it's from the air or from the ground

13:35

when you have really high value, quote

13:37

unquote, actionable intelligence. Go

13:39

after Hamas. Second of all, shore

13:41

up Israeli defenses facing

13:43

Gaza. That was what started this in the

13:46

sense or allowed this to happen, the

13:48

weakness of Israeli defense readiness

13:51

against Gaza. So make it impossible

13:53

for Hamas ever to do something like this

13:55

ever again and go after individual

13:58

or units of Hamas whenever you

14:00

have a chance. But I would really be

14:02

careful. I really have questions about

14:05

reoccupation of Gaza. We've seen this

14:07

movie before. Israel got out in 2005 for

14:09

the very reason that this could

14:12

not be sustained. And when they got out,

14:14

it created a vacuum which Hamas

14:16

has filled. I don't want to see a rerun here.

14:20

And of course, Willie, Hamas knew that

14:23

with its barbaric actions

14:25

that it would pull

14:28

Israel and the Gaza, almost

14:31

setting a trap. Richard put

14:33

a lot of options out. The

14:35

option I would start with is

14:38

turning the screws on Iran and

14:41

Iran's oil revenue as tightly

14:43

as possible because all Hamas's

14:46

funding at the end of the day are most

14:48

of it, like Hezbollah's, like

14:51

the Houdy rebels, like Islamic

14:53

Jihad. It comes from Iran.

14:55

When Iran doesn't have oil money, then

14:58

they can't fund Hamas. Yeah.

15:02

And we're hearing now that call from

15:04

Republicans and Democrats alike

15:06

about the $6 billion that we've been discussing

15:08

and everything else. You have to turn the screws. Richard,

15:11

I wanted to ask you as we're talking about the relationship

15:14

between the Arab governments and

15:16

Hamas, about a name we haven't talked about

15:18

much in the last week or so. And that's Qatar,

15:21

which hosts in lavish

15:23

living quarters the leadership of Hamas.

15:26

They're not on the ground in Gaza. They're

15:29

in Hamas calling for international jihad

15:31

this weekend. What is the role

15:34

of Qatar in all this? Might they be able

15:36

to help get some of the hostages out? You

15:38

even have some foreign policy, former foreign

15:40

policy officials in America saying America

15:43

should take or Israel should take military

15:45

action to take out the leadership of

15:48

Hamas inside Qatar. That seems unlikely.

15:50

But the point is the people running

15:52

the operation sit comfortably in a different Arab

15:55

nation that's been welcomed into the world,

15:57

hosted the World Cup last year and everything else.

15:59

So what's their role? role in all this. They

16:01

are the principal financial backers. If Iran

16:03

is in some ways the principal strategic

16:06

backer, I guess you'd call it, Gutter hides

16:08

behind the idea that they're only giving humanitarian

16:10

help to the people of Gaza. Obviously

16:13

money is fungible, so that doesn't wash, it

16:15

doesn't bear any scrutiny. I

16:19

think the United States should, I mean, put much more

16:21

pressure on Gutter. You know, look, after

16:23

9-11, U.S. policy changed,

16:25

and we declared that we no longer drew

16:27

a distinction between terrorists and

16:29

those governments that supported terrorism. So

16:32

I actually think we ought to have a very rough conversation

16:34

with Gutter. What's holding us back in part

16:37

is the United States is so dependent on them

16:39

for its own military presence in this part of the

16:41

world. It's

16:43

an important home to a lot of U.S. military forces.

16:46

So it's not an easy conversation.

16:49

But you know, and what we might want to do is talk about

16:51

the parameters or put certain limits

16:53

on the help they give to Hamas. And you also

16:56

say one other thing. I do think if there is an

16:58

exchange of hostages for

17:00

Hamas prisoners being held in Israeli

17:03

prisons, Gutter will be at the center

17:05

of it, possibly Egypt as well. But

17:07

certainly Gutter will play a significant role

17:09

here. So we've got multiple considerations

17:12

here. So it's just very hard to say, well,

17:14

we're going to come down on Gutter with it like a ton of bricks,

17:17

because there's other things that weigh against that.

17:19

So Johnson LeMere, President Biden,

17:21

positioning this country fully partnered

17:24

side by side with Israel.

17:27

Lots of

17:28

strength and moral clarity in

17:31

his words, Secretary Blinken backing him up

17:33

with his presence there. But

17:35

he also is running a government

17:38

that has some parallels with Israel

17:40

right now in terms of the chaos and the Republican

17:42

Party and no speaker of

17:44

the House. Yeah, no speaker of the House, which we'll dive into later this

17:46

morning. Steve Scalia's dropping out last night. And

17:49

certainly President Biden is a full-throated endorsement

17:52

of Israel, but also some

17:54

warnings about what could come next. Like make sure,

17:56

try to avoid civilian casualties. Be

17:58

concerned about this humanitarian crisis. crisis trying to, and

18:01

we heard it pretty explicitly from Secretary of State Blinken while

18:03

he was in Israel this week telling Prime Minister Netanyahu

18:06

that hey, tap the brakes a little bit here as to what's going to happen

18:08

next in Gaza. Richard also wanted

18:10

to talk to you about the fate of the hostages. I

18:12

have some new reporting this morning looking into

18:14

why the White House is not sending boots on the ground

18:16

there in part in deference to Israel, but

18:19

also because they don't know where the hostages

18:22

are. They suspect they're spread out. They suspect

18:24

they're hidden among civilian targets. They also feel like Israel's

18:27

intelligence in that region not as good as it used

18:29

to be, which is why it led to the attack last

18:31

week. So if Israel goes in

18:34

this weekend like they're telegraphing they may, what

18:37

do you think happens to the 100 odd

18:39

hostages there, including some Americans? Well,

18:42

obviously they're in a greater jeopardy than they are.

18:44

One, Hamas took the hostages for

18:46

two reasons. One was to arrange some kind

18:48

of a swap to get their own people out. The other

18:50

was to try to put a brake on Israeli

18:52

military action. And if

18:55

that brake doesn't work, and if there is widespread

18:57

military action, then I don't mean

18:59

to sound callous, but what worries me, Jonathan,

19:02

is the quote unquote value of these innocent

19:04

people to Hamas goes down. And

19:06

I think I fear that it puts them at greater

19:09

risk. Can I just make a larger point? Because you put your finger

19:11

on something really big. For the US right

19:13

now, for the Biden administration, which has been incredibly

19:15

supportive of Israel. I thought the president speak

19:17

the other day was really powerful and

19:20

just magnificent. But privately,

19:23

there's growing disagreement with what Israel

19:25

wants to do. So the administration is trying

19:27

to thread the needle. It is trying to

19:30

be as supportive of you can of Israel's

19:32

right to retaliate, but privately

19:34

saying just because you might have the right to do

19:36

certain things, is it really smart? Will

19:39

it leave you better off? And trying

19:41

to work this out so we are supportive

19:43

of Israel, yet in some ways try to pull

19:45

them back is threading the needle. But

19:47

that's exactly what the administration is doing. And quite

19:50

honestly, we all better hope. I actually think

19:52

we all better hope they succeed because

19:54

I worry about where this is, where this is heading.

19:56

And Joe, President Biden, obviously navigating

19:59

this on the world's While back

20:01

here at home there is questions hanging

20:03

over Capitol Hill as to how to really get

20:06

a functioning Congress in full Well,

20:08

I mean we here we have a crisis obviously

20:11

one of the the gravest crises

20:14

in the Middle East certainly

20:17

possibly since 1973 we

20:22

We have a grave crisis in

20:24

in the center of Europe with

20:27

Ukraine fighting against Russian

20:29

aggression We have

20:31

the the the continued fear that

20:33

China is going to act aggressively against

20:38

Taiwan and you

20:40

have House Republicans just

20:43

inexplicably not picking

20:45

a speaker of the house So just just

20:48

make Patrick McHenry the temporary

20:50

speaker for now for God's sake until

20:53

Everybody else can get their act together, but

20:56

you not only have that you you

20:58

have the Republicans In the house

21:00

in chaos. It is Unbelievably

21:03

dangerous time for Americans in the world

21:06

and then you have Donald Trump The

21:09

Wall Street Journal editorial page talking

21:11

about Donald Trump's quote Israeli

21:14

war in sight and saying mr Trump can't help

21:17

himself from making everything about himself That's

21:19

the same way handled the covert crisis and

21:21

it's what voters would get in a second

21:23

Trump term in a much more dangerous

21:26

world That's from the Wall Street Journal editorial page

21:28

this morning And of course, they're

21:30

responding to what Israelis are responding

21:32

to and that is Donald Trump going

21:35

out and praising Hezbollah and attacking

21:38

Israel and its leaders That's

21:42

what's going on right now there's a reason

21:44

why the Israelis are putting up billboards

21:48

of Joe Biden in Tel Aviv and

21:50

Thanking Joe Biden for his support

21:54

because that's what they need

21:56

right now So

21:58

it's and it's something that I know So many Republicans

22:01

want to give to

22:05

give to the Israelis, but they need

22:07

to get their act together in the House, at least

22:09

get a temporary speaker. And

22:13

they need to get a presidential candidate who

22:15

actually doesn't undermine Israel right

22:18

after their worst attack in 50 years. We'll

22:21

talk about that and much more when Morning Joe

22:23

comes back. MSNBC

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is something no other wealthy country

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world's never been harder to understand. That's

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22:52

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23:42

Twenty-seven past the hour

23:44

now to the chaos on Capitol

23:46

Hill. The Republican battle for a new House

23:49

Speaker has descended into

23:51

an even bigger mess this morning, just

23:54

one day after the party nominated

23:56

Majority Leader Steve Scalise for the position

23:58

of the Louisiana Congress.

23:59

with Drew from the race

24:02

last night. I

24:04

just share with my colleagues that I'm a draw on my name as

24:07

a cabinet for the speaker-designee.

24:11

If you look at over the last few weeks, if

24:15

you look at where our conference ends, there's no work to

24:17

be done. Our conference

24:19

still has to come together

24:21

and is not there. Joining

24:25

us now, MSNBC contributor Mike Marnicle and

24:28

another Mike, the co-founder of Axios, Mike

24:30

Allen, and congressional reporter for

24:33

The Hill, Michael Schnell.

24:36

And, Jo, what happened? What could

24:38

have happened at this point? Wouldn't

24:41

it be a moment now more than ever where

24:43

they need things to just function?

24:45

Get

24:47

someone in place. Let's go.

24:50

It is inexplicable. I mean, I don't know of

24:52

any political party that would ever act. That

24:56

way, we had a problem with Newt Gingrich.

25:00

We took care of that problem in between

25:02

sessions, and he moved

25:05

on. And John Boehner complained about

25:07

his problems, and

25:11

for good reason. Paul Ryan quietly

25:14

would grouse about it, but things were

25:16

done in a somewhat orderly process. So

25:20

you didn't have this happening in the middle of two

25:22

of the biggest wars. In recent

25:25

history. And so it's

25:29

a recklessness. It's

25:31

an irresponsibility. It's

25:34

a lack of leadership, the likes of which none

25:36

of us have ever seen. In our lifetime.

25:40

From the House or the Senate, really,

25:42

in our lifetime. It seems

25:44

to me, Jonathan O'Mear,

25:47

it's one thing when you

25:49

have eight people deciding

25:52

they're going to go their own way. But

25:54

you had half the conference deciding

25:56

that they weren't going to go with the

25:59

will of the majority. of the conference

26:02

has always happened. So

26:04

this is spread from eight people to maybe 90, 95 people. Now

26:08

it seems to me, I'm wondering if there's any

26:10

reporting or are they thinking about somebody like Patrick

26:13

McHenry, just as a temporary

26:15

speaker, where they say, okay,

26:18

you just, you hold

26:20

the gavel, you run this place

26:23

until we can get our act together

26:25

because there is a hot war

26:28

in the Middle East, there's a hot war in

26:30

the center of Europe, and in

26:32

both cases, our allies

26:35

are in crisis and are gonna need our help. A

26:38

phrase we use a lot in this modern era

26:40

of politics, the Trump era, if you will, is we've

26:42

never seen this before, but we've never seen this

26:44

before. You come out of that closed door meetings with your

26:46

nominee, that person is going to be speaker.

26:49

Steve Scalia, though, didn't even

26:51

come close, and that's just it. He bailed

26:54

last night because he wasn't just a few

26:56

votes shy, he was dozens of

26:58

votes shy. So now, where

27:00

do we go from here? There are some who support Jim

27:02

Jordan, who was the runner up to Scalia, saying, well, he

27:04

can make another chance now, although people

27:06

we talked to on the Hill suggest his chances

27:09

are just as slim as Scalia's were.

27:11

There is still this thought of a dark horse, sort

27:13

of more mainstream moderate candidate who could jump

27:15

in. It's not clear who that would be.

27:18

Some Republicans saying, well, we've gotta make a deal with the

27:20

Democrats now. Maybe we can get their support.

27:22

Democrats saying, well, we might

27:24

be into that, but we're gonna need some real concessions

27:27

and promises to make that

27:29

happen. And then there's the McHenry point, with this

27:31

momentum there, the idea of trying to create some

27:33

sort of mechanism, like Allen, where he could

27:35

step in in a temporary way, because this

27:37

is happening at such a destabilizing moment.

27:40

The war in Israel, what's happening in Ukraine,

27:43

government shutdown deadline, that's on the horizon, that's

27:45

only a month away. But again,

27:47

it's not clear whether they'll be able to

27:49

pull that off. What are you hearing? Is

27:52

there any end in sight to this crisis?

27:54

Yeah, the Axios Hill team has new reporting

27:56

this morning, the bipartisan group

27:58

of about 10. House members are

28:01

talking about how they could do

28:03

it, how they could find a speaker. I

28:06

know that behind the scenes, I'm

28:08

told that there have been talks about some kind of

28:10

power sharing, but could there be, Democrats

28:14

suggest, like a couple of speakers that would be

28:16

acceptable to them? In turn,

28:19

they get some say about what goes on

28:21

the floor. It could be some pretty subtle procedural

28:24

changes that they would go for. They would get in there.

28:26

I will say, I'm skeptical, like

28:28

you, I've lived through all too many centrist

28:31

moments, but this is an emergency.

28:35

So Michael Schnell, you've been reporting on every

28:37

twist and turn of this process up

28:40

until minutes ago. I'm sure you're on the phone.

28:42

So it's unclear that anyone is

28:44

it not could get to 17. So Scalise can

28:47

step aside and then they can say, well, it's Jim Jordan.

28:49

Well, Jim Jordan lost to Steve Scalise in

28:51

that preliminary round of voting. Is

28:54

there anybody in that caucus who can get

28:56

to 217?

28:57

And look, Willie, that's obviously the key

28:59

question here. And I think that you bring up two really

29:01

key points that I want to touch on. A, Republicans

29:04

are likely now going to put up a new candidate,

29:07

Jim Jordan, as you mentioned, who actually secured

29:09

fewer votes than Steve Scalise in that

29:12

internal election. The final tally

29:14

was 113 to 99. So Republicans are now going to try to

29:18

move ahead with Jim Jordan, who already

29:20

has less support within the conference,

29:22

not really a good place to start at. And

29:24

then when you get into, you know, is there anybody

29:27

who can secure enough support to

29:29

wield the gavel? Look, Jim Jordan

29:31

is likely going to have the same problem that Steve

29:33

Scalise had. The fact that the House GOP

29:35

majority is so slim, you need

29:37

to have near unanimous support to win

29:39

the speakership on the House floor. There are

29:41

already some Republicans coming out against

29:44

Jim Jordan by my count to Ann

29:46

Wagner and Austin Scott already.

29:48

It's an uphill climb for him. You

29:50

know, Mike Barnacle, I was hearing

29:52

sound bites from some of these, I guess, backbenchers,

29:55

extremists about why Steve Scalise

29:57

shouldn't have the job or whatever.

29:59

We're saying things that were so

30:01

stupid and cruel and just

30:04

beyond even bringing up at this table. But

30:06

don't these people see the fire

30:08

that's

30:09

burning around the world that they

30:12

should think above themselves perhaps

30:15

and operate? What's

30:17

going on? It's nice

30:19

seeing an optimist this early on. Unfortunately,

30:21

that's not the case. I'm not optimistic.

30:24

I'm just trying to figure it out. It's not even a case

30:27

of a tyranny of the minority. It's a

30:29

tyranny of ten. And

30:31

yet in the middle of that, you get a ray

30:34

of common sense from even what

30:36

used to be the Republican Party. I

30:38

was listening to Chairman Mike McFall

30:40

yesterday, chair of the House Foreign

30:43

Relations Committee.

30:44

And he was as upset about

30:47

what is happening as we are

30:49

apparently today and as many people are

30:51

today. They lack the ability

30:53

to govern, the basic ability to govern,

30:56

and they don't care about it. But

30:58

vote for your member of Congress no matter who it is,

31:00

no matter what party you're in. You want them to

31:02

do one thing. You want them to do their job. And

31:05

their job is doing something for their constituents.

31:07

And they've lost that ability. Well,

31:10

and you are so

31:12

right, and I'm so glad you brought up Chairman McCall.

31:15

Not only is right on this point, he's

31:18

been right on Ukraine. He's actually

31:20

been pushing the Biden administration

31:22

to move further and

31:25

move faster with

31:27

the appointment of weapons.

31:30

We know, I know, because

31:32

it was on the Hill a few

31:34

weeks ago. I know there are Republicans

31:37

who want to get this moving,

31:39

and they are enraged. First

31:41

of all, that eight people held things up. I think though

31:43

now, listen,

31:49

I would work a deal. I would

31:51

say, did the Republicans either get your act together

31:54

or we're going to work a deal with the Democrats?

31:57

And you're going to get run over. What

32:00

happened when I was in Congress? You

32:02

stand in the way of what's best for your party

32:04

and what's best for your country. People

32:07

build coalitions and they run over

32:09

you. You know, we always

32:11

hear that, oh, it's such a small minority. Mike

32:14

Allen, I'll go to you on this one. Then I want to go to Richard

32:16

on another question,

32:18

but I'll go to you. Mike Allen,

32:21

everybody's always talking about, oh, it's such a

32:23

small Republican majority. It's

32:26

such a small. Oh, who could ever? I'll

32:28

tell you who could. Nancy Pelosi,

32:30

she had a small majority and

32:34

we always said on this and people say, well, will

32:36

this bill pass? Will is,

32:38

and I'd always say if

32:40

it goes to the house floor, it

32:42

will pass because Nancy Pelosi

32:45

knows how to run her caucus. She knows

32:47

how to pass bills. I'm just struck

32:49

like Allen that we talked

32:51

about chairman McCall. I know he's

32:53

a very capable leader. I

32:56

know the chairwoman of the appropriations

32:58

committee I worked with her. I was very

33:00

capable. They're very capable Republicans.

33:03

I just wonder at what point do they say, you

33:06

guys work with us or we're going to run you over

33:08

and we're going to find some Democrats that will help us govern

33:11

this house. So that's the perfect

33:13

contrast. Do you govern from fear

33:16

or do you govern from strength? And

33:18

that's the fatal flaw in the

33:21

deal that Kevin McCarthy took to

33:23

get the job that he was never going to be

33:25

able to live lead by strength.

33:27

He was in fear of the tyranny of

33:30

the one in the case of

33:32

the chance of losing the gavel.

33:35

And that's why Republicans are weak.

33:37

There's not somebody who can say, this

33:40

is what we're going to do. This is what we have

33:42

to do.

33:43

Yeah. And, and, and, and either

33:46

go along with the party, stop undermining

33:49

the party, or we're going to run you over politically.

33:51

It's that simple. It's how it works. We

33:54

have people who know how to, how to run things.

33:57

And let's hope for the sake of the country. Let's hope for

33:59

Israel. It's real. Let's hope for Ukraine.

34:02

Let's let's hope for the American people that

34:04

the Republicans will find that person. You

34:06

know, Richard Haas, you wrote a book, your last

34:08

book called Bill of Obligations. You

34:10

also have written articles talking about the

34:13

greatest risk to America is America's

34:17

political system itself. You know,

34:20

I wrote an Atlantic column talking

34:22

about how powerful this country is militarily,

34:25

how powerful we are economically, how how

34:28

all of our leading indicators are

34:30

exceptionally well. I

34:32

wrote it late summer. And yet

34:35

the one fatal flaw continues to be our

34:37

dysfunctional government.

34:39

And here we go again. And

34:42

I think one of the most dangerous times

34:44

in recent history. A

34:46

hundred percent. And that's what makes it so dangerous, Joe.

34:48

I mean, if you just go around the

34:50

world, you mentioned the war in Ukraine, you

34:53

mentioned the rise of China, the threats to Taiwan,

34:55

North Korea has grown its missile force and its

34:57

nuclear weapons. We were talking about Iran

34:59

still have terrorism in the Middle East. You've

35:02

got global challenges. You know, we just got out

35:04

of a pandemic. You got climate change. Yeah,

35:07

that's quite an inbox. The fact that

35:09

we have to contend with that inbox at a time

35:11

the U.S. government is dysfunctional means

35:13

we don't have the resources. We don't have the consistency.

35:16

If you were a friend of the United States and

35:19

you saw what is going on here, that

35:21

would have to, to some extent, unnerve

35:23

you. Where's the consistency? Where's the reliability?

35:26

Where's the predictability that's essential

35:28

for a great power that

35:31

undermines democracy? Who's going to want to emulate

35:34

us right now? So this combination

35:37

of what's going on out there and what's going on out

35:39

here and the fact that it doesn't sober people

35:41

up, what you were getting at, what people around this table

35:43

are getting at, the idea that these people can continue

35:45

with this circus, given the fact that

35:48

they ought to be responsible this moment

35:50

and step up to this challenge and rather

35:52

than stepping up to it, they're stepping back from it.

35:54

Willy. So Michael Schnell, you're

35:57

hearing Republicans talk about exactly what Joe

35:59

just proposed. Congressman Mike Rogers

36:01

of Alabama who chairs the Armed Services Committee

36:04

said, Akeem Jeffries, minority leader,

36:06

we need your help. We can't do this alone.

36:09

There's no, we're not going to get to 217 with anybody.

36:11

Let's make a deal. Congressman Rogers

36:13

calling that small group of Republicans that

36:16

ousted Kevin McCarthy traders

36:18

using that word over and over again and said they'd

36:20

rather be in the minority so that they can just vote

36:23

no on everything and raise money and be on

36:25

on cable news channels. Is there any

36:27

chance of a deal here between

36:30

Democrats and this group of Republicans

36:32

who actually want to have a speaker of the House?

36:35

Willie, I think the prospect of

36:37

that is pretty is pretty low right now just

36:39

because Republicans see working

36:42

with Democrats even more moderate pragmatic

36:44

ones they see teaming up with Democrats for the

36:46

speakership as something of

36:48

giving up and throwing in the towel. Republicans

36:51

worked hard to win the majority. I'll bite it

36:53

being a very small one and they're saying that

36:55

under no circumstances do they really want

36:57

to go you know team up with a minority.

36:59

They say that we need to get our acts together. Now look we're

37:02

a week and a half into this situation where

37:04

there is no speaker and there's no real viable

37:06

candidate on the horizon so it is possible

37:09

that we could move into some sort of coalition government

37:11

at some point that some of these Republicans can

37:13

say okay the time has come. I did speak

37:16

to Congressman Don Bacon yesterday a moderate

37:18

Republican from Nebraska said the time

37:20

is coming where we will need a bipartisan

37:22

solution but I don't know that we're

37:25

there yet and I don't know that there will be enough

37:27

of those Republicans willing to. I will

37:29

note that Hakeem Jeffries has consistently

37:31

said as recently as yesterday that

37:34

Democrats are ready and willing and

37:36

able to team up with some of those more

37:38

moderate and pragmatic Republicans to

37:40

come to some sort of you know compromise

37:43

here to reopen legislative business but

37:45

that's likely going to take some concessions from

37:47

the Republican side whether it be even an even

37:50

playing field on the Rules Committee promises

37:52

to bring up different pieces of legislation there's

37:54

gonna be a hefty negotiation there so to

37:56

get back to your point I don't know that we're there

37:58

yet and that there are no

37:59

enough Republicans to team up on that just yet.

38:02

But is it a possibility in the future? Absolutely

38:05

on this track that we're headed on. Congressional

38:07

reporter for The Hill, Michael Schnell, thank you

38:09

very much for being on this morning. Co-founder

38:12

of Axios, Mike Allen, thank

38:14

you as well. And Mike Barnacle, you

38:16

stay right where you are.

38:17

Really? Oh, yeah.

38:19

Okay, coming up. Yes, you

38:21

will. You're here. You are here for the duration.

38:23

Coming up, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin

38:26

Netanyahu has equated Hamas

38:28

to ISIS. David Branch will join us with

38:31

his new piece for the New York Times on what

38:33

it would mean to treat both para

38:35

groups the same. Plus, National

38:37

Security Council spokesman John Kirby

38:40

will join us once again live from the White

38:42

House as Israel prepares the

38:44

potential ground invasion of

38:46

Gaza. Also ahead, how the Trump campaign

38:49

is defending the former president's

38:51

comments praising Hezbollah

38:54

as smart. You're

38:56

watching Morning Joe. We'll be right back.

39:00

We need to fill the chair

39:02

with a speaker every day

39:04

that goes by that's more dangerous. You

39:07

know, I was on the phone with our friends from Israel, they're going to

39:09

need a supplemental aid

39:11

to replenish the iron dome. But

39:14

they can't do that if we didn't have a speaker in the chair.

39:16

So I see a lot of threats out there. One of

39:18

the biggest threats I see is in that room. It's very

39:20

dangerous what we're doing. And I just

39:22

wanted them to know that, you know, the

39:26

point was fire.

39:36

Gaza and Israel, Ukraine. The

39:38

world is changing in big ways every day.

39:41

Huge lanes and smoke. NPR

39:43

has reporters around the world. Look right there

39:45

in front of us. To tell you what's happening and why

39:47

it matters. This is being described by some as

39:49

a 9-11 moment. We don't know what's coming.

39:52

Listen to State of the World from NPR. New

39:54

episodes each weekday.

39:56

Hey, guys, Willie Geist here reminding you to

39:58

check out the Sunday sit down. podcast

40:01

on this week's episode I get together

40:03

with Darius Rucker to talk about his

40:05

latest album that honors his late

40:07

mother and a Career that was launched

40:09

with hootie in the blowfish and one

40:11

of the best-selling albums in the history

40:13

of music You can get our conversation

40:16

now for free

40:18

wherever you download your podcast

40:25

Beautiful sunrise over New York City

40:27

at 6.6 on a Friday

40:29

morning a little south of New York the Philadelphia

40:32

Phillies eliminated the Atlanta Braves

40:34

in the NLDS for a second year

40:37

in a row Nick Castellanos hit another two

40:39

home runs last night Becoming the

40:41

first player ever to record consecutive

40:44

multi-home run games in

40:46

the postseason Braves are

40:48

out the Phillies will host the Arizona

40:50

Diamondbacks and game one of the NLCS

40:52

on Monday night and the American League

40:54

Championship series opens on Sunday night

40:56

in Houston with the Astros

40:59

hosting the Texas Rangers So Mike

41:01

Barnacle the team with the five

41:03

best records in baseball in the regular season

41:06

are all out and here we are again the

41:08

Astros have another chance to go to the World Series

41:11

and the Philadelphia Phillies and that Stadium

41:14

absolutely rocking again last night back

41:17

in the NLCS Oh 11 home

41:19

runs in a four game series Nick

41:21

Castellanos twice last night and

41:24

the third run they got

41:25

was a home run off of the

41:27

batter Trey Turner they are hitting

41:29

the you-know-what out of the baseball in

41:31

that ballpark and that ball flies

41:33

in that ballpark And I got to say one thing

41:35

after being so upset at looking at the marginal

41:38

crowd showing up at Tampa Bay Tampa

41:40

Bay is a very good baseball outfit very good

41:42

team But 18 19 thousand

41:44

people in the stands for that game to see

41:46

the Philadelphia fans Jam

41:49

that stadium and be vocal be

41:51

unbelievably vocal from the first pitch

41:53

through the last pitch. That was

41:55

heartening I love that That

41:57

really that really was I mean that

41:59

was as postseason baseball. It was

42:01

so exciting. And

42:04

just a note for everybody

42:06

who follows a team that's not in the American

42:08

League East and hear us

42:11

talking about the American League East every

42:13

day. Don't think it

42:16

has gone unnoticed by all of us

42:18

here, that the AL East, the

42:20

three teams from the AL East, 0 and 7

42:24

in the playoffs this

42:26

year, swept Jonathan Lemire. And

42:28

guess what? We were in last

42:31

place in that division. In

42:34

fact, the Boston Red Sox are the only American League

42:36

East team that won a game in October. We

42:38

won of the regular season finale in October.

42:41

The rest of the league teams did not. But

42:43

yes, it pains me to praise the Philadelphia

42:45

sports fan, but that is great. That's a great problem.

42:47

Maybe the best in baseball right now. And I think

42:49

as we head into this next round, we

42:51

can all be united on one thing, to

42:54

root against the Houston Astros. Whatever

42:56

it takes, rooting against Houston Astros, we

42:59

are all Texas Rangers this morning.

43:00

Yeah. So guess what,

43:02

guys?

43:04

Did you know it's Mike Barnickel's birthday? Oh,

43:06

yeah. So you're nice again.

43:08

There you go. Happy birthday. Yeah, I told

43:10

you it was your special day when I walked in. And

43:12

Mike got really mad at me when I tried to

43:14

wish him a happy birthday this morning.

43:16

I appreciate that, Mika, but let me tell you

43:18

something. At this stage in my life,

43:20

if I wake up every day, it's a special

43:22

day. Every day is a special day if I wake

43:24

up. Well, it's a very

43:25

special day today because here's

43:27

just a tiny snippet of what

43:29

we're treated to from Mike every morning right

43:32

here on Morning Joe.

43:34

We have MSNBC contributor

43:36

Mike Barnickel. Mike Barnickel with us. Veteran

43:38

Paul Mook. Mike Barnickel.

43:41

This ball of yours has

43:43

so many places.

43:51

They filled the mums with thoughts of when you were

43:53

young. We'll have some thoughts of yesterday.

43:55

We'll hope tomorrow.

43:57

You come here and the memories just roll.

43:59

They just fall off you like sweat

44:02

on a hot day. Catastrophe of 86. I

44:04

love you Mike Barnacle. I really do. That's

44:07

it. You're average fans. Morning. I'm

44:09

Mike Barnacle, I went for Willie Geist and this is way

44:12

too elderly. Here it goes. And

44:14

President Obama. Oh, right here. Here

44:16

he is. I walked right past the President.

44:20

As

44:25

we look at your life as

44:27

a 15 round time love, you've

44:30

been knocked down several times God the Lord.

44:32

You always get back up. So

44:34

at this stage of this election process,

44:38

why are you still the guy, the

44:41

best guy to be in the ring?

44:42

This

44:48

is a crime syndicate that's been operating

44:51

in full view of the American public, which

44:53

says a lot about us. That it takes

44:56

these hearings to awaken

44:58

and alert some people to the misbehavior, to

45:00

the criminal behavior of

45:02

one administration, the Trump administration.

45:09

This country has suffered great damage.

45:11

None more so than the injection

45:14

into the political bloodstream that

45:16

the election of 2020 was fixed,

45:19

was rigged. What would you do if you were elected

45:21

about Aleppo? About

45:25

Aleppo. And what is

45:27

Aleppo? You're

45:29

kidding. No.

45:33

All facing West toward the

45:35

beach where they landed, the channel

45:37

they crossed. And the land that they left

45:39

had come and helped rid the

45:41

world of the terror that was hit

45:44

this third Reich. I think that

45:46

it is unfortunate, it's impossible of course,

45:48

that every American did

45:51

not get the opportunity to stand

45:53

on that hallowed ground.

45:59

I'll leave his jacket on

46:02

the back of the chair. I'll be right back.

46:04

He just never comes back. That's Irish goodbye. Nice.

46:07

So legendary.

46:07

He's really,

46:09

really, he is legendary.

46:12

And you know, Willie, it

46:15

is. For

46:17

younger people who know

46:20

Mike over the last 16 years

46:24

on this show that we've been so blessed to have him

46:26

here. We

46:28

don't even, younger people

46:30

don't understand. He's one of the greatest columnists

46:33

of the 20th century. You

46:36

talk to people in Boston still and

46:39

they come up to you and

46:42

they ask about Barnacle. Wherever I go,

46:45

wherever I go, they're like, tell

46:47

me about Barnacle. Tell me more about Barnacle. And

46:50

I will tell you about Mike Barnacle very briefly

46:52

this morning, Willie. And I know you feel

46:54

the same way. People always ask how we get up

46:56

at 3, 34 o'clock, how we do this every

46:58

day. We do it every day because

47:01

we do it with people that we love.

47:03

The people that are members of our family.

47:06

And

47:08

you, just like you are a member

47:11

of our family, Willie, and we're a member

47:13

of your family. Mike,

47:15

Mike is not like family to us. Mike

47:18

is family. I've never

47:21

felt closer to a group

47:23

of people along

47:26

with my family than I feel to

47:28

you all. And Mike, Willie,

47:30

Mike is at the center of that. Yeah,

47:33

no question about it. And the reason you love Mike

47:35

Barnacle is because these five minutes

47:38

are making him outrageously

47:40

uncomfortable. He's much rounder now. He's

47:42

very angry. He's going to leave. Yeah,

47:44

exactly. It is true, Joe. And I was thinking exactly

47:46

what you said, which is you wake up at 4 in the morning, you

47:54

come through, you see 30 Rock. That wakes

47:56

you up because you're so lucky to get to work here and do

47:58

this show every day. Mike

48:00

Barnacle you go, oh right. That's why

48:02

that's why we're doing this to spend time and not

48:04

just on the air off The air is

48:07

the best time with Mike. We love him so much.

48:09

He's a role model to me as a dad You

48:16

weren't joking you weren't joking about

48:19

the jacket on the back of the chair in the 2008

48:21

Republican Convention in st. Paul, Minnesota

48:23

We're doing a show three hours We

48:26

take a break. I look around I said, where's barnacle

48:28

in the blue jackets on the back of the chair? I

48:31

just finally text him. Where are you?

48:33

I'm in the hotel room having breakfast I

48:36

said what he said Willie in your life what

48:38

you want to do go buy a bunch of cheap blue

48:40

blazers And you can just leave

48:43

them wherever you go and you can leave any party.

48:45

You don't want to be at any situation That's

48:48

my class going to walk away from it. It's

48:50

the best advice you've ever given us. All right.

48:52

Happy birthday My did you see that

48:54

coming?

48:56

I did not see it coming and and

48:58

I am enormously grateful for

49:00

the time I've been allowed to spend here 16 years

49:04

With all of you and now Mika

49:06

in the immortal words Roberta

49:08

Duran

49:09

no mas Have

49:14

you ever wanted to provide MSNBC

49:16

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49:19

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49:21

your chance When you join the MSNBC

49:24

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49:26

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49:29

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49:31

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