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crime. That

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make a splash are some that kind

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of mine. The

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I can't believe I that for funnel

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cake let's get another kind of fun

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but most importantly a Kings Island. You'll

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find for the fun of it. Kind

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of fun The way to start your

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fun. This season leagues I went opens

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it's gates April it's ready. It. Only

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makes it perfect what you're supposed

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to go through. What

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is? There were three that nobody is

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ever seen that they were surveyed or

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whatever going around. Our.

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Fair. Share

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of what children are. Different over here and me.

0:55

He workshop on the border in Morocco

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figured out of show how are you

0:59

going to was brilliant. Are friends gain

1:01

power and control? And. Force to Extreme

1:03

a journal. the rest of us. Resident.

1:05

What he says. He. Says

1:08

corroborate dictator on day one.

1:10

Code. I'm your retribution.

1:14

Ramos is called a blood bath

1:16

every loses. This. Guy

1:19

denied January six. Listen.

1:22

This. Is do it he says. Because.

1:24

You know he meet. Our.

1:27

Work every morning. Think about how to make

1:29

like better like you do for work in

1:31

the middle class families here in Scranton all

1:33

across country. Where. The power

1:35

and of freedom rest with you. And.

1:38

We the people. And.

1:41

That as a look at how

1:43

the Twenty Twenty Four Presidential campaign

1:46

is likely to play out over

1:48

the next several weeks: Donald Trump

1:50

in court ranting about the criminal

1:52

cases against him while President Biden

1:55

is on the campaign trail, taking

1:57

his message to voters in key.

2:00

swing states. We'll have more about

2:02

this stark contrast and bring

2:04

you an update on Trump's

2:06

criminal hush money trial playing

2:08

out in New York City.

2:10

Plus, the Republican-led chaos continues

2:12

on Capitol Hill. The threats

2:14

to end Mike Johnson's speakership

2:16

are growing as he prepares

2:18

to bring multiple foreign aid bills to

2:21

the House floor. We'll go through the

2:23

latest drama on all of that. Good

2:25

morning and welcome to Morning Joe. It

2:27

is Wednesday, April 17th

2:29

along with Joe, Willie and me.

2:31

We have the host of Way Too

2:33

Early, White House Bureau Chief of Politico,

2:36

Jonathan Lemire, member of the New York

2:38

Times editorial board, Mara Gay, and

2:40

conservative attorney George Conway is with

2:42

us. And we begin this morning

2:45

with Donald Trump's hush money criminal

2:47

trial with now seven

2:49

jurors seated sworn in after a

2:51

busy day in court yesterday. The

2:53

jury is anonymous, so their names

2:55

were not used in open court.

2:57

But here's what we do know.

3:00

The group so far is made

3:02

up of four men and three

3:04

women and include two attorneys, a

3:06

salesman, an oncology nurse,

3:09

an IT consultant, a

3:11

teacher, and a software

3:13

engineer. Other potential jurors

3:16

were dismissed throughout the day as

3:18

the process continued into the afternoon.

3:21

Reporters in the court described Trump as

3:23

being more alert at times

3:25

looking intently at potential jurors

3:27

as they answered questions. Judge

3:29

Juan Machan believes the jury

3:31

selection process will be

3:34

completed this week and advised

3:36

the jurors already seated to be ready

3:38

for opening arguments to begin

3:40

on Monday morning. The day

3:43

ran so smoothly that Donald Trump claimed

3:45

outside of court that the judge was

3:48

rushing the trial. So

3:51

we think we have a little more

3:53

difficult, highly consistent judge who should be on

3:55

the case and he's reaching this to you. People

3:59

saying. What a

4:01

know! Twelve jurors and six alternates

4:03

are needed. The trial will not

4:05

be in session on Wednesday, so.

4:07

The. Process for it resumes tomorrow. On

4:09

to so why George George Conway The

4:12

pay seems to be going at a

4:14

fairly a great quip. Would you? What

4:16

are you saying in their what you

4:18

have spot? While. It is going

4:21

to have faster than it seems. Who

4:23

with first for me nights it it

4:25

is. They've started with a panel of

4:27

ninety six people and I think the

4:29

way that it was expedited, the way

4:32

the judge really expedited as he just

4:34

as everybody up front. if you can't

4:36

be impartial, raise your hand essentially and

4:38

that got rid of probably about two

4:41

thirds of the of of the veneer

4:43

of the of the pool. and so

4:45

they began focusing on the remaining thirty

4:47

or so. and of that if if.

4:49

He was just a very very efficiently

4:52

and and was a questionnaire and they

4:54

made each person get into the box

4:56

and and go through the question and

4:58

answer questions yes no and explain of

5:00

their works. Complicating factors: The judge could

5:02

intervene little incentive if there is a

5:04

question that that. Came off

5:06

or that that required a little a

5:08

hallucination. ah and then of those of

5:10

lawyers got suggests to ask some questions

5:12

for a half an hour each of

5:14

the first group and they managed to

5:17

come up with six people and then

5:19

they came up with a war thing

5:21

as the day it was all it

5:23

was all very efficiently. Dawn on and

5:25

I think it's it's going to speed

5:27

up because he saw it gets his

5:29

side gets ten peremptory challenges meaning they

5:31

can just challenge for no reason why

5:33

out stating a reason and both sides.

5:35

Of use six, the strike you're severely our

5:38

for left so there's a limit to what

5:40

they can wake, what they can do they

5:42

need to pick eleven or jurors five will

5:44

be the of will sit on the panel

5:47

of twelve and then they'll be six alternate

5:49

so that that there's a pretty good chance.

5:51

I think there's no reason I they can.

5:53

You get this done by Friday. Be.

5:56

some concerns a couple of days ago as slow this

5:58

is going but it really ramped up yesterday and

6:01

George, you were in the overflow room

6:03

down at the courthouse yesterday, so you

6:05

know that at one point during that

6:07

jury selection, the judge gave Donald Trump

6:09

and his attorney a warning about Trump's

6:11

behavior. It came after one potential juror

6:13

was being questioned about her Facebook post

6:15

after the 2020 election. Once

6:18

she left the room, the judge admonished

6:20

Trump, telling his lawyers, quote, your client

6:22

was audibly uttering something. I will not

6:24

tolerate that. I will not have any

6:26

jurors intimidated in this courtroom. I

6:29

want to make that crystal clear. That's the

6:31

judge talking directly to Donald Trump and

6:33

his lawyer. So, George, we

6:35

knew about the histrionics a couple of

6:37

days ago. Some more it looks

6:39

like there was yesterday inside that courtroom. How

6:42

does that play? How does that affect what's

6:44

happening inside the courtroom? Well, again,

6:47

it's great that the judge is clamping

6:49

down on that early because his conduct

6:51

in the courtroom is

6:53

really, it's very demonstrative and

6:55

it's very emotional at times.

6:58

I actually don't think he has a

7:00

complete ability to control himself. I

7:03

think we saw that during the Eugene Carroll trial.

7:05

I think we're going to see it again. I

7:08

think it's important for the judge to give him warnings

7:10

that he can't do that in front of the jury.

7:13

But the fact is, to the extent he does that to

7:15

the jury, in front of the jury, it shows

7:17

disrespect for the jury and doesn't necessarily help

7:19

him. That's one of the reasons why I

7:22

think that he was hit with that $83.3 million verdict during

7:26

the second Eugene Carroll trial is he

7:28

basically stood, he sat in front of

7:30

the jury and just showed contempt for

7:32

the entire process and contempt for the

7:35

jury, which dovetailed nicely with what the

7:37

other side was trying to prove, which

7:39

was this is a bad guy who

7:41

doesn't respect anybody and anything, including the

7:44

law. Yeah, you

7:46

know, Jonathan O'Mear, obviously you've been covering Donald

7:48

Trump a very long time. You

7:51

understand that his

7:53

lack of discipline is legendary.

7:56

His ability to sit still, legendary. He

7:58

wrote even in the article. the deal

8:00

that basically that he didn't have the

8:02

discipline to sit down and make

8:05

plans for for a day. He just kind

8:07

of showed up in the office, answered phones,

8:09

moved around, did think. Drudge

8:12

puts it this way, Don in

8:14

hell with a picture of Donald

8:16

Trump inside the courtroom. And

8:19

for anybody that knows him, yeah, for

8:21

it on him, it's been around him.

8:23

The fact that this guy has to

8:25

sit in a courtroom six, seven, eight

8:27

hours a day. That's not good. Required

8:29

to it just did something he's never

8:31

done his entire life. He

8:34

has a legendary short attention span, ricocheting

8:36

from one thought to the next. It

8:38

would always frustrate his business advisors and

8:41

certainly his White House

8:43

staff. He's been best I can

8:45

tell disciplined only a handful of times in his life,

8:47

once famously in that last week or so of the 2016

8:50

election, the one time he was convinced to

8:52

stay off Twitter and mostly stayed on message

8:54

at his rallies. And we know that helped

8:56

him win there in those last few days

8:59

with an assistant FBI director Comey. But that

9:01

is certainly the exception rather than the rule.

9:03

And he is in discipline. And I was

9:06

speaking to someone in Trump world last night

9:08

who did acknowledge that the physical

9:10

toll this is taking on Trump already.

9:13

He's a couple of times now we've seen him close

9:15

his eyes, potentially asleep that

9:17

he that though he's been in courtrooms a

9:19

lot in recent months, most of those appearances

9:21

relatively brief an hour here, a couple hours

9:24

there, lots of breaks. He never had to

9:26

be there for eight, nine hours at a

9:28

time. And he's going to have to do

9:30

that each and every day. Yes, he gets

9:32

today off, but he'll be back tomorrow. He'll

9:34

be back Friday. He'll be back Monday. And

9:36

there is some concern in Trump world about

9:38

the physical toll this will take him on

9:40

him. His campaign schedule

9:42

already has to be curtailed inherently

9:44

because of the time to it's

9:46

New York. But they also

9:48

just wonder, will he be up for it?

9:50

Will he be able to then in his

9:52

free moments hit the road? He made a

9:54

brief appearance at a local business yesterday. His

9:57

aides are talking about having more New York

9:59

City events. a limit to how much he'll

10:01

get politically out of those. You know,

10:03

he's scheduled to have a rally in North Carolina

10:05

this weekend, but between the physical toll

10:07

and the lack of money, and

10:09

the need to be in the courthouse, Joe

10:11

Amica, this may be a dramatically smaller campaign

10:13

than we're used to from Donald Trump. Yeah,

10:17

you're right. The lack of money

10:19

preventing him from doing so much.

10:22

But there's been a big difference between

10:24

this time in the courtroom and

10:26

past times. Most of the

10:28

time, it was voluntary. Right. Here,

10:31

I mean, big difference between a voluntary

10:35

appearance and an appearance where

10:37

you are required to attend. And I

10:39

will just say, yeah, anybody sitting six,

10:41

seven, eight hours. You know me, if

10:44

I were sitting somewhere for eight hours, I

10:46

would be falling asleep. I

10:48

would be writing songs. Yeah,

10:50

I started even being in the room

10:53

for. And Nika lets me

10:55

talk all the time to stay awake. So

10:57

I can't imagine. You

10:59

know, what a physical toll for

11:01

anybody. This is where also it

11:04

helps to have real firsthand knowledge

11:06

of Donald Trump over the course

11:08

of over a decade. And

11:12

the guy has no attention span. We've

11:14

seen it up front. And how we've

11:16

known people who've worked for him, and

11:18

they have to work around this sort

11:20

of ADD mentality that he has, and

11:23

the need for attention. Making

11:26

moments and maragay. And by

11:28

the way, being in charge in whatever he sets

11:30

up, every meeting, every everything.

11:32

So he's in charge here. As

11:35

you were saying yesterday, Mika

11:37

went through a scene

11:40

from the courtroom where Donald Trump

11:42

had to sit while they're going,

11:44

okay, let's see here. Okay, sure.

11:47

We could go to page 4A and look at

11:49

clause. I don't think it's 4A. You know what?

11:51

I think it's. You know, we

11:53

have to go back. Bring the other

11:55

ones in. Hey, can you imagine Donald

11:57

Trump sitting through that, like going crazy?

12:00

going because again I and I

12:02

think you again you put a

12:04

lot of CEOs on that list

12:06

sitting there for

12:09

six seven eight hours this is why

12:11

do I sell this it's going as

12:13

Jonathan O'Mear said the campaigns right it's

12:15

gonna exact a toll on him I want

12:18

to counter that with the rage that he

12:20

might feel in this

12:22

situation of not having control Maraghay I

12:24

think you know there's the other side

12:27

of this and the concerns some might

12:29

have many might have about the gag

12:31

order being broken sort of broken already

12:34

many times and people's number

12:36

one lives being put in danger by what

12:38

he says about them but also number two

12:41

ginning up anger he walks

12:43

outside of the courthouse and does these speeches

12:45

we don't take most of them at this

12:47

point unless he says something of

12:50

newsworthiness and then

12:52

going to this bodega and having hundreds

12:54

of people wanting to meet him and

12:56

using these moments covered by

12:58

Fox News and other far-right

13:01

networks as sort of campaign

13:03

events I think

13:05

there is some I think

13:07

there is something to be said for what he

13:09

can do with this your thoughts

13:12

well certainly a concern and you

13:15

saw yesterday that the judge recognized

13:17

that concern in admonishing

13:19

him and saying I'm not going

13:21

to have you know mumblings in

13:23

my courtroom that could intimidate potential

13:25

jurors so you know obviously that

13:27

is a concern that's shared by

13:29

many I do agree with

13:31

George I think that his PR capabilities are

13:34

going to be somewhat limited in New York

13:36

City or maybe it was John that mentioned

13:38

that a moment ago that's absolutely true it's

13:40

an ongoing concern because essentially he's like

13:42

a caged animal and and that's a

13:44

dangerous situation he's feeling very threatened he's

13:47

out of control and so we do expect him

13:49

to lash out anybody who has covered him over

13:52

the past decade can expect that but

13:54

you know one of the things that

13:56

I actually find really reassuring about the

13:59

past couple days is

14:01

just how mundane and ordinary

14:03

this trial looks. I

14:05

was actually called for jury duty in New York

14:07

City last year, and it was

14:09

much the same kind of process in a

14:11

criminal trial. At the end of

14:13

the day, I was not, I

14:16

ended up not serving, mostly because of

14:18

the work that we do here, but it

14:20

is reassuring that Donald Trump is no

14:22

different than anybody else who would be

14:24

called in this kind of a trial.

14:27

And you know who else is having

14:29

to sit there for eight, nine hours

14:31

a day? These jurors whose lives have

14:33

been interrupted. And you know, that

14:35

is part of the democratic process, and

14:37

it is playing out so far exactly

14:40

as it should, which isn't supposed to

14:42

be fixated on some outcome, but on

14:44

a fair trial in a free

14:46

democracy that would be no

14:48

different for anybody else. And I also

14:50

think that that really does give

14:53

a little bit of gravitas

14:55

to this case that has been

14:57

in some quarters controversial, and

15:00

has been seen as maybe not as serious as the

15:02

other trials, but the reality is, and I've covered trials

15:04

here in New York, anybody

15:07

who may have committed a crime should be held

15:10

accountable for that crime. And we're seeing this play

15:12

out, and I think it's

15:14

reassuring, I think it's hopefully encouraging

15:16

Americans and voters ultimately that our

15:19

system still works, even

15:21

for a former president. By

15:24

the way, nice to see native New Yorker Donald Trump

15:26

go to a bodega for the first time in his

15:28

life yesterday. I wonder what he got.

15:31

Yeah, so guys, the other thing that we, I

15:33

think should underline, which we came in at the

15:35

top of the show was, there's Donald in the

15:37

bodega, was the contrast we saw,

15:39

which is Donald Trump sitting inside a courtroom, which

15:41

he's going to be doing for a large portion

15:44

of this year, whether it's in New York, whether

15:46

it's in Florida, maybe it's in Georgia, up in

15:48

Washington, while the president of

15:50

the United States, the man he's running against, is

15:52

in a place like Scranton, Pennsylvania, talking

15:55

about jobs, talking about the needs of people,

15:57

talking about their lives, and where he wants

15:59

to take them. in a second term, don't

16:02

underestimate how that over time,

16:04

what that looks like to a voter, which

16:06

is this guy is an alleged criminal sitting

16:08

in court, many courts, and this

16:11

is a guy who's out here campaigning

16:13

for us in states that have to be

16:15

wanted. Donald Trump is right, he's not gonna

16:17

be in Pennsylvania or Wisconsin and Michigan as

16:19

much as he should be, and there's a

16:21

good way to avoid that, which is to

16:24

not commit alleged crimes, then you don't have to

16:26

go in court for an entire year. I

16:30

mean, and the question that's been asked for

16:33

some time is what would the impact of

16:36

this trial be? What would the

16:38

impact be if

16:40

he were actually convicted of

16:44

any of these felonies? We'll see.

16:46

And good point also, very

16:49

glad Maura Gay brought it up that just

16:52

the appearance on Morning Joe

16:54

will get you stricken from any jury in

16:56

the United States and limit

16:58

you in many other ways as well, for

17:00

instance, we're not allowed to buy

17:03

kitchen appliances with whirling blades,

17:06

lawn supply instruments as

17:08

well. Lot

17:10

of mowers, can't have one. Coming

17:13

up in one, thank God I have the

17:16

push mower for you to use from my parents.

17:18

You don't like to do garbage somewhere, you know,

17:20

push it. No, it doesn't even have an engine,

17:22

it's the one that, yeah. Coming

17:25

up in just one minute, the efforts out,

17:28

the campaign when I should be out campaigning. Mike

17:30

Johnson gains momentum as another

17:32

House Republican signs onto a

17:34

motion to remove him from

17:37

his post. We'll have the

17:39

latest in the GOP drama

17:41

on Capitol Hill. Plus House

17:43

Republicans deliver articles of impeachment

17:45

against Homeland Security Secretary, Alejandro

17:47

Mayorkas to the Senate.

17:49

We'll go over what to expect at his

17:51

trial in the upper chamber later today. Morning

17:53

Joe is back in 60 seconds. Oh

17:57

my God. The

18:03

UN Refugee Agency or UNHCR

18:05

responds to emergencies and provides

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long-term solutions for refugees. They

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provide aid in over 130

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free from war and persecution at

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their greatest moment of need. UNHCR

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helps and protects refugees by

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providing food, shelter, medical care

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and other life-saving essentials. The

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key ways. They transport core

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to help in crisis situations and

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they transfer funds directly to support

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the emergency. Because of generous supporters

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and donors, UNHCR can scale up

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its response within 72 hours

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of a large-scale emergency. Your

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support helps provide life-saving aid

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for refugees whenever and wherever

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emergencies occur. donate

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to USA for

19:00

UNHCR by visiting

19:02

unrefugees.org/donation. Beautiful

19:10

live picture of sunrise in Washington 618

19:13

in the morning. House

19:15

Speaker Mike Johnson says he plans to

19:17

bring the GOP-led foreign aid package to

19:19

the floor by the end of the

19:21

week. The four bills which include aid

19:24

for Ukraine, Israel, Taiwan and Indo-Pacific allies

19:26

are garnering some support, but things are

19:28

still fluid, to put

19:31

it mildly. Some far-right conservatives have

19:33

voiced outright opposition to the measures.

19:35

While rank-and-file Republicans are angry, the

19:37

package does not address the southern

19:39

border. Johnson's saving grace,

19:41

though, could be Democrats. He spoke

19:43

to President Biden last night and

19:46

congressional Democrats appear inclined to support

19:48

the package as long as

19:51

no Republican poison pills are included.

19:55

There's no option off the table right

19:57

now from procedural measures that bring this

20:00

directly to the floor to

20:02

any votes that are

20:04

options. If it delivers, as the vice chair

20:06

said, if it delivers the four

20:08

points that we are concerned about, then it should be

20:10

something that is on the table. But

20:14

Speaker Johnson's move to push forward

20:16

with that foreign aid package could

20:18

cost him his job. Republican Congressman

20:20

Thomas Massey has announced his support

20:22

for Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene's motion

20:24

to oust the Speaker. Massey

20:26

said Johnson's actions on government funding, FISA

20:29

and that foreign aid to Ukraine contributed

20:31

to his decision. Meanwhile, on the other

20:33

side of the aisle, some Democrats, including

20:35

Congressman Jared Moskowitz of Florida are saying

20:38

they will try to stop the ouster to

20:40

keep order in the lower chamber. Here's what

20:43

Massey said yesterday, followed by the

20:45

Speaker's thoughts on what's happening right

20:47

now on Capitol Hill. What

20:50

is that? Yeah, I asked him to resign. And

20:52

what did he say? He said he would not.

20:54

And then he said, well, you're the one who's

20:56

gonna put us into this. Because the motion is

20:59

going to get called, okay? Does anybody doubt that?

21:01

The motion will get called. And then he's

21:03

gonna lose more votes than Kevin McCarthy. And

21:05

I have told him this in private, like

21:07

weeks ago. I

21:10

am not resigning. And it is, in

21:13

my view, an absurd notion that someone would

21:16

bring a vacate motion when we

21:18

are simply here trying to do our jobs. We

21:22

need steady leadership. We need steady hands

21:24

at the wheel. Look, I regard

21:26

myself as a wartime speaker that a couple of

21:28

days ago on his social media that this is

21:30

the hardest challenge that's faced a speaker probably in

21:32

the history of the country and the moment that

21:34

we're in right now. He said, arguably,

21:38

may be comparable to the Civil War, but maybe worse.

21:42

Maybe worse. So Joe and Mika, you have,

21:44

it's Thomas Massey and Marjorie Taylor Greene saying

21:46

it out loud with the motion to vacate.

21:49

But there are other Republicans unhappy with Speaker

21:51

Johnson, maybe happy down the road to jump

21:53

aboard this. But at the core of this

21:55

is they don't want aid going to Ukraine,

21:58

number one, and they want something done about

22:00

the southern border. For those with short

22:02

memories, let's remember that bipartisan package on

22:04

the border was completed a couple of

22:06

months ago. Now they had what they

22:08

asked for. And when it came

22:10

to their desk, they didn't want it. Because

22:13

Donald Trump told them not to do it. By the way, for

22:16

the speaker, I'm glad speaker's doing what he's

22:18

doing now. But just

22:20

for the speaker, he doesn't have to

22:22

go back to the civil war to

22:25

a time when a speaker faced a

22:27

worse situation than he's facing now. Why

22:30

all he has to do is go back to January the

22:32

6th, 2021. And

22:37

what happened after he was running around

22:39

the House floor, trying to get Liz

22:41

Cheney and everybody else to overthrow the

22:44

results of the election. Which of

22:46

course, what he was doing, what Paxton

22:49

was doing, what Trump was doing, what

22:52

all of these people were doing led to a

22:54

riot and the greatest challenge inside

22:57

that Capitol dome since,

23:00

you know, since

23:02

the Civil War. So, I

23:04

mean, it's crazy. By the

23:07

way, these guys that go, you know,

23:09

I'm going to take down the speaker, one

23:12

of 435. I know you're

23:14

one of 435. And Mika,

23:17

as you were saying yesterday, Democrats

23:21

may be saying, hold their beer.

23:23

Yeah, they might. Joining us now, congressional

23:26

investigations reporter for The Washington Post, Jackie

23:28

Alemani, with more on this and the

23:30

drama unfolding and the state of foreign

23:33

aid. Jackie, who are these Democrats

23:35

and how might they save the

23:37

day for the speaker? Yeah,

23:40

Mika, this is the month long culmination

23:42

of a struggle bus to get this

23:44

funding that is now at this point

23:46

in time considered more critical than ever

23:48

by growing cohorts

23:51

of both parties to get through. The

23:53

question is whether or not Speaker Johnson

23:55

is ultimately going to have the courage

23:57

today to actually introduce the text of

23:59

this. four part $95

24:02

billion aid package and

24:04

whether or not Democrats are actually going to step up to

24:06

the plate like they have increasingly

24:09

been saying they're going to

24:11

in order to help Mike

24:13

Johnson get through and navigate

24:15

these hardline GOP

24:17

conservatives who essentially want

24:19

to blow everything up and

24:22

take Mike Johnson's job away from him, forcing

24:24

a new speaker's fight for the

24:27

second time in the past six months.

24:29

These Democrats are realists,

24:31

essentially. People like you just showed,

24:33

Jared Moskowitz, Josh Gottheimer, some

24:35

of these more centrist, but

24:38

even further than that, people who at

24:40

this point, people like Dan Goldman,

24:42

people who just want to see their workplace

24:45

function in a time when

24:47

our foreign allies are desperately

24:49

waiting on us and waiting for

24:51

our support. As Speaker Johnson said

24:53

yesterday, he considers himself a wartime

24:55

speaker at this point in time, and I

24:58

think that's what's driving his desire

25:01

to get this on the floor now,

25:03

despite his personal opposition to funding

25:05

Ukraine. You

25:07

know, what's so fascinating, Jonathan

25:09

O'Mear, is if these

25:12

bills do, in fact, go out one by one,

25:14

you're going to have aid to Israel.

25:17

I think a lot of Democrats,

25:19

progressive Democrats, that have

25:21

traditionally been more pro-Palestinian

25:24

than mainstream, most

25:27

mainstream politicians in Washington,

25:29

D.C., will vote against that aid,

25:31

but the overwhelming amount of Republicans will vote for

25:34

it. And then Ukraine, you've got Ukraine aid. You've

25:37

got a lot of pro-Putin,

25:41

pro-Russia, pro-Trump

25:45

Republicans that are in the backfinches

25:47

of the House who

25:49

will vote against it. But you've got a lot of

25:51

Democrats who are going to actually be voting for

25:54

it. So you're going to actually have

25:56

these crosscurrents that may lead to the

25:58

passage of aid. for Israel

26:01

and Ukraine and of

26:03

course Taiwan. Yeah, some unlikely coalitions.

26:05

There may be, you're right about there's some

26:07

progressive anger at Israel, some reluctance to vote

26:09

for it. Although that may be quelled slightly

26:12

after the strikes from Iran over the weekend,

26:14

but I think many will stick with their

26:16

votes because of their anger about what's happening

26:18

in Gaza. You're certainly right about Ukraine. There

26:20

are votes there to pass this thing. It's

26:22

a relatively small number of Republicans who oppose

26:24

it, but they carry a lot of

26:27

power. And we should be clear, the White

26:29

House opposes this measure to separate the bills.

26:32

They still think they need to be combined. They fear that

26:34

Ukraine will fall by the wayside if that does not

26:36

occur. And they still

26:38

want Johnson simply to bring the Senate bill

26:41

to the floor. Jackie,

26:43

first of all, compliments to your use of the

26:45

phrase struggle bus. That's precisely what

26:47

this is right now. I'm

26:50

running out of ad descriptors. No,

26:52

you nailed it. We all liked it here at the table. So

26:56

let's just walk down the path a little bit

26:58

here with Speaker Johnson in this effort to take

27:01

away his power to oust him from this position.

27:04

If Democrats do come to his aid, doesn't that

27:06

mortally wound him politically going forward? How does he

27:08

raise money? How does he command the Republican caucus

27:11

if he knows that, hey, you've been propped up

27:13

by the other side? That said,

27:15

to walk us through what that would look

27:17

like. But then the other alternative is, if

27:19

he is ousted or if he walks away

27:21

from this, what happens then to

27:23

the House of Representatives? Who's in charge? Yeah,

27:27

these are really difficult scenarios

27:29

to play out. And

27:32

I think that that some of the Republican

27:34

dysfunction that we've seen has actually sort of

27:36

overshadowed some of the growing

27:38

problems that are in

27:40

fractures that are happening in the Democratic Party. That

27:42

being said, Johnson is going to have a

27:44

very hard time doing his job relying on

27:47

Democrats. And I think that's been his

27:49

reticence to bring this onto

27:51

the floor and to push it through, knowing

27:53

that it's not going to get through without

27:55

the support of Democrats. How is he going

27:57

to fundraise and be the top fundraiser? really

28:00

for the House GOP conference and

28:02

the Republican Party on Capitol Hill,

28:04

when he's going to have to

28:06

point to compromise, something that is

28:08

somewhat of a poison pill in

28:10

this current environment. That

28:13

being said, there are really not many

28:16

alternatives here, and even hardline conservatives,

28:19

people like Marjorie Taylor Greene and

28:21

Thomas Massey. These are people that

28:23

are angering their own colleagues and

28:25

people who are considered

28:27

themselves their own allies. There's

28:30

not a lot of backup plans here, and I

28:32

think at the end of the day,

28:34

Johnson can say that he

28:36

is, you know, months before

28:38

an important November

28:40

election, trying to

28:42

maintain the majority for Republicans

28:45

and trying to run a functioning

28:48

Congress that isn't as

28:50

historically unproductive and ineffective

28:52

as the last Congress was.

28:55

Yeah, and you know, Willie, it seems

28:57

to me, it seems

28:59

that anybody that's paying close

29:02

attention, even some of the

29:04

hardcore Republicans have said, no, enough, we're

29:06

not going to do this. After

29:08

Massey stepped out, she had Jim

29:10

Jordan telling reporters, no, no, no,

29:12

we do not want to

29:14

go there again. Other Republicans saying,

29:17

this is the last thing we need

29:19

to do, and the first thing that

29:21

Democrats want us to do is

29:23

to look more chaotic. Yeah,

29:26

and where's the end of this, right? We

29:28

couldn't find anybody, if you're a Republican, to

29:30

fill the job for Kevin McCarthy. They landed

29:32

on a relative unknown in Speaker Mike Johnson.

29:34

If you get rid of Speaker Mike Johnson,

29:36

who comes next? You go through this all

29:38

over again, and you have a group of

29:40

Republicans who are now just saying

29:43

the thing out loud. As President Biden

29:45

pushes for foreign aid to support allies

29:47

in need, Congressman Garrett Graves said

29:49

this. and

30:00

President Biden supports the

30:03

changes to TikTok. What

30:05

are Republicans getting out of this? So

30:09

George Conway, that's the question that Congress engraves

30:11

there is asking, what's in it for us

30:13

talking about aid to Ukraine? They want to

30:16

get something out of the steel, hold that

30:18

aid as leverage and don't think they get

30:20

anything out of the United States with filling

30:22

an obligation to an ally. Yeah,

30:24

well, they ought to be getting the ability

30:28

to help the United States send its

30:30

allies out of this, but they don't

30:32

seem to care about that. They're just

30:34

a nihilistic bunch who want to obstruct

30:36

everything because for political purposes. And I

30:38

think Speaker Johnson, not

30:41

much as I don't really particularly like him, I think

30:43

he is to do the right thing by the country

30:45

and do the right, which will be the right thing

30:47

by himself. I think he needs to cut some deal

30:50

with the Democrats, where the Democrats will vote the table,

30:53

a motion to vacate in

30:56

exchange for him putting this stuff

30:58

on the floor and getting it through one

31:00

way or the other, whether it's four bills or

31:02

one. And that's going to

31:05

obviously hurt Speaker Johnson in

31:07

some ways, but will

31:10

survive to fight another day. And

31:12

it's the best interest of the

31:14

country. He knows that many, many,

31:16

most Republicans, frankly, I think know

31:18

that and certainly Democrats know that.

31:20

And there's just no reason why

31:22

a nut job minority of a

31:24

few handful of members should

31:27

be allowed to block legislation that's in

31:29

the best interest the United States of

31:31

America. Yeah, these arguments,

31:33

what does it do for the United

31:35

States of America? Always been short-sighted. Donald

31:37

Trump, what does NATO do for America?

31:40

All of, what do all of these- This guy was

31:42

asking what it does for the Republicans. In

31:45

post-World War II, what

31:48

have all of these international organizations

31:50

done? Well, it's allowed the United

31:52

States to grow at an

31:54

unprecedented rate, be the most powerful military, the

31:57

most powerful economy, the most powerful, you name

31:59

it. in the world, this

32:02

international structure where we

32:05

don't have countries invading

32:07

other sovereign countries in

32:10

the heart of Europe, that's

32:12

good for the United States. And

32:14

also just to be very direct,

32:18

Jonathan, this

32:21

investment continues to destroy

32:23

what is

32:25

the second strongest military

32:27

in the world. And that is poorly as

32:30

they have fought. That is the

32:32

Russian military right now. You

32:34

look at the number of men

32:37

that have been taken off the battlefield

32:40

for the Russians. You look at the fact

32:42

that I think one third of their tanks,

32:44

military vehicles, have been

32:47

destroyed. Not a single American

32:49

has died. And yet

32:51

tens, they've lost tens of

32:53

billions of dollars of

32:55

military equipment in Russia. And

32:58

their military power has been compromised to

33:00

a degree that it's going to take

33:02

them a generation to recover. What? Do

33:05

Republicans get out of it? It's

33:08

good for America. And I don't

33:11

know, maybe they should be concerned

33:13

about what's good for America instead of what's

33:15

good for Vladimir Putin. And again,

33:17

I still keep going back to what the head of the

33:20

Intel Committee and the Republican

33:22

head of the Intel Committee and the

33:24

Republican head of Foreign Affairs Committee said,

33:26

which is a

33:28

lot of Republicans in our own conference that

33:31

have swallowed whole and are

33:33

spitting out Vladimir Putin's propaganda.

33:36

Yeah, repeating Putin's propaganda because they think

33:38

that's what Donald Trump wants

33:40

as the leader of their party.

33:43

And certainly, Joe, the return on investment here

33:45

for the United States has been extraordinary. I

33:48

won't repeat, we just said that the Russian military, though,

33:50

has a little momentum right now in

33:53

Ukraine, but on the whole, it's badly

33:55

degraded because of the US's

33:57

funding with the help from European allies.

34:00

enabling Ukraine to really strike at the heart

34:02

of the Russian military and damage it severely.

34:04

And also, we've started hearing from Speaker Johnson

34:06

in recent days, a talking point the White

34:08

House has been using for months. A

34:10

lot of this investment's actually going

34:13

to American companies. They're back-filling American

34:15

arms manufacturers. That's gonna happen here

34:17

at home. There's an economic benefit

34:19

here for this funding. It's not

34:21

just gonna go drop into Kyiv, it's gonna be

34:23

here in the United States in order to supply

34:25

Ukraine. That's really important as well. And at the

34:27

talking point, they should perhaps use for their constituents.

34:30

Frankly, some of those arms manufacturers are

34:33

housed in red states. So, Mara,

34:36

but let's talk about the

34:38

big picture here right now as the world

34:40

watches. And with great

34:44

unease about how the United States can't

34:46

be counted upon like it used to

34:48

be. This dysfunction in

34:51

the House of Representatives where we might lose

34:53

a speaker again or come out with one

34:55

who's paralyzed and can't do much of anything.

34:57

And there's still a path, even

34:59

though there's a little bit of momentum right now, we should

35:01

be clear, this is not a done deal that these bills

35:03

are gonna get through. And if they don't and the US

35:05

fails to meet its commitment to Ukraine, what

35:07

does that say to the rest of the

35:10

world, particularly with the possibility of another Trump

35:12

presidency looming? Well, I think

35:14

lots of Europeans, some of whom are

35:16

friends of mine are deeply concerned and

35:18

that's not just in Europe. So, that

35:21

is an ongoing concern. I mean, the uncertainty

35:24

of what would happen if Trump

35:26

were to return to the White House

35:28

is something that leaders around the world,

35:30

democratic and not, are closely

35:32

watching. And so our enemies are

35:34

also watching and are

35:36

chomping at the bit to see this

35:39

kind of uncertainty and unrest. But I

35:41

think going back to the reason for

35:43

this shifting policy

35:46

is almost more disturbing. It's not

35:48

as though there is some coalition

35:51

of new thinking about what's

35:53

best for America in

35:56

foreign policy. What's actually

35:58

happening is what we just witnessed, which is... a

36:00

cohort of Republicans in power in the

36:02

House saying, well, what's best

36:05

for Republicans, not what's best

36:07

for America? And I guess I wonder

36:09

at this moment, if they're

36:11

going to pay any political price for

36:13

that, is this something that

36:15

the Biden campaign can splice and turn

36:18

into an ad? Or is

36:20

this just Washington insider baseball?

36:22

I don't know. I don't think there

36:24

are a lot of Americans who would

36:26

appreciate this kind of dysfunction at the

36:28

cost of U.S. foreign policy. So

36:32

given that, Jackie Allemani, what will you

36:34

be looking for today in your coverage? Well,

36:37

there's two things primarily. We're going to

36:39

wait and see if Mike Johnson ultimately

36:42

decides to push this $95 billion aid

36:44

package through. He's running out of time

36:46

because of the 72-hour rule,

36:49

which requires 72 hours

36:51

of internal debate over it, meaning

36:53

that this would get to the

36:55

House floor for a vote on

36:57

a Saturday. And Mike Johnson is

36:59

unfortunately going to lose one more

37:01

Republican member. That's Mike Gallagher, who's

37:04

retiring on Friday, meaning that

37:07

in terms of a worst-case scenario for

37:09

him, where a motion to vacate is

37:11

actually brought

37:15

to the floor and Marjorie Taylor Greene

37:17

gets more than just Thomas Massey. It

37:19

will only require one more Republican to

37:21

support that in order for that to

37:23

be discharged

37:26

and a simple majority for

37:28

then that to actually oust Speaker

37:30

Johnson. But on the other side

37:32

of Capitol Hill today, there's

37:34

also a little thing called the Senate

37:37

impeachment trial. Perhaps

37:40

one of the lowest-profile impeachment trials

37:42

that we've seen in history, perhaps

37:44

because of the lack of substance

37:46

in these two articles of impeachment,

37:48

that even Republicans in the Senate

37:50

have previously decried in terms

37:52

of what they actually outline

37:55

in charges against DHS Secretary

37:57

Alejandro Mayorkas. That being said, they're for

38:00

a trial nevertheless because they're calling

38:02

on Democrats to adhere to precedent

38:05

and saying that there's never

38:07

been an impeachment trial that hasn't actually

38:09

gone to trial in the Senate regardless

38:11

of the merits of the arguments. So

38:13

that's starting at 1 p.m. today and

38:16

we'll see how long that goes on

38:18

for and whether super conservative Republicans in

38:20

the Senate decide to have their own

38:22

little revolt over a lack

38:25

of a border policy. You

38:27

know, Meeku, with all this going on the

38:29

side and

38:31

the Senate side, there's no doubt Jackie's

38:33

gonna be riding the struggle bus. I

38:35

know. Okay, the Washington Post,

38:38

Jackie, I want me. I just

38:40

knew that was coming. Thank you very much. Yeah,

38:43

she's been on it. Attorney George Conway,

38:45

thank you as well. I'm sure we'll

38:47

be seeing a lot of you with

38:49

everything that's going on. And

38:51

before we go to break some sad news.

38:53

Yeah, just a great

38:55

guy, former Florida governor and U.S.

38:58

Senator Bob Graham has passed

39:00

away. The moderate Democrat passed

39:02

away yesterday at the age of 87. Graham

39:05

was among the relatively few Democrats elected

39:08

to be governor of Florida. He

39:10

left office as one of the state's most

39:12

popular politicians with an 83 percent

39:15

voter approval rating. He then

39:17

went on to serve three terms in the U.S.

39:19

Senate and gained national prominence as

39:21

chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee in

39:24

the aftermath of the 2001 terrorist attacks

39:26

and was an early critic of the

39:28

Iraq war. Bob Graham retired

39:31

in 2005 after serving nearly

39:33

four decades in public

39:35

office. And you know, he

39:38

was in, you know, from

39:40

the 70s on, there weren't a

39:43

whole lot of Democrats, you know,

39:45

that got elected as governor.

39:47

But the reason why is

39:49

he just he had the common touch. He

39:53

would bag groceries at Publix

39:55

one day. He would go

39:57

to You

40:00

know US air the next day and

40:02

he'd do bags He had these work

40:04

days that he did throughout his

40:07

career whether it was as a state senator

40:09

or as governor or as a

40:11

US senator and He really connected

40:13

on such a level and I will say

40:16

When I first got to Washington, I got a

40:19

call from him Which was a big

40:21

deal for one of 435 to

40:23

get a call from one of the two senators and

40:26

said hey I'd love to meet you sometime Congressman

40:28

I said I said senator Graham anytime where

40:30

he's like me he goes I'll do it

40:32

I'll just walk on over walked

40:34

over to the office my I think my second

40:36

day there Just again just

40:39

came in said I'm here. Tell

40:41

me what you need. I hope you presented well

40:43

Democratic senator a Republican

40:45

I of course, you know, I got

40:48

my breakfast on my jacket

40:50

But I you know what I somehow managed to

40:52

get by good. That's very great But

40:54

just a wonderful loving loving man

40:56

and our thoughts are with Gwen

40:59

and the rest of the grand

41:01

family Absolutely coming up. We're

41:03

going to show you more of President

41:05

Biden's visit to his hometown of Scranton,

41:07

Pennsylvania Where he called out

41:09

Donald Trump by name several

41:11

times Also ahead

41:13

Carrie Lake's alarming rhetoric on

41:15

the campaign trail the

41:18

Republican Senate candidate in Arizona suggested

41:20

that her supporters arm

41:23

themselves Leading up

41:25

winter how that plays with swing

41:27

voters November's election. Really? Really? Carrie

41:30

Lake morning. Joe is coming right

41:32

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nearly every state have introduced bills that

42:37

would block people from getting the sexual

42:40

and reproductive care they need. Planned Parenthood

42:42

believes everyone deserves health care. It's a

42:44

human right. That's why they

42:46

fight every day to push for common

42:48

sense policies that protect our right to

42:50

control our own bodies and against policies

42:53

that interfere with decisions between patients and

42:55

their doctor. Planned Parenthood needs

42:57

your support now more than ever.

43:00

With supporters like you, we

43:02

can reclaim our rights and

43:04

protect and expand access to

43:06

abortion care. Visit Planned parenthood.org/future.

43:09

That's planned parenthood.org/future. Arizona

43:13

candidate Carrie Lake suggested to

43:15

reporters they might want to

43:17

arm themselves in the run up to the fall

43:19

election to supporters. I should say she made the

43:21

comments at a campaign rally on Sunday. The

43:26

next six months is going to be intense and

43:28

we need to strap on our, uh,

43:31

let's see, what do we want to

43:33

strap on? We're going to strap on our seat

43:36

belt. We're going to put on

43:39

our helmet or your Carrie

43:41

Lake ball cap. We are going

43:43

to put on the

43:45

armor of God. Then maybe

43:51

strap on a block on the side

43:53

of a suitcase. You

43:57

can put one here and one in the back or

43:59

one in the back. whatever you guys decide, because we're

44:02

not going to be the victims of crime. We're not

44:04

going to have our second amendment taken away. We're certainly

44:06

not going to have our first amendment taken away by

44:08

these tyrants. It's

44:11

not great audio there. If you couldn't hear it,

44:13

she said she wanted to put on a seat

44:15

belt, put on the armor of God and yes,

44:18

a Glock on her hip and then got into

44:20

some comments about the second amendment. Meanwhile, Republican Senator

44:22

Tom Cotton of Arkansas is doubling down on his

44:24

comments. We told you

44:26

about these yesterday, where he urged

44:28

citizens to, quote, forcibly remove pro-Palestinian

44:30

protesters blocking traffic on major bridges

44:33

and roads across the country this

44:35

week. Cotton told people to, quote, take

44:37

matters into their own hands against demonstrators

44:40

and to confront them with the use of physical force.

44:43

Here is Senator Cotton doubling

44:46

down on that stance to NBC News. Vigilantes

44:50

are blocking traffic in the streets when mom is trying

44:52

to get kids to school or

44:55

people trying to go to the hospital or just

44:57

trying to get to work. Should

44:59

be removed from the streets. Yes, I said that. I

45:01

posted it. I would say it again today and I

45:03

would do it myself back on myself in that situation.

45:05

But you said people should take matters into their own hands.

45:09

Can you just clarify what that means? Because some people think

45:11

it could call for violence. It

45:13

calls for getting out of your

45:15

car and forcibly removing pro-Hamas

45:18

vigilantes who are blocking the streets

45:20

on major highways so traffic can

45:22

continue. Senator

45:25

Cotton maintains he's not calling for violence against

45:27

the protesters but did share a video on

45:29

Twitter showing a group of men dragging protesters

45:31

off the road with the senator captioning, quote,

45:34

how it should be done. So

45:37

Joe and Mika, we talked about this yesterday.

45:39

Senator Cotton says he does not want you

45:41

to go and use violence against

45:43

the protesters. We also talked about

45:45

yesterday how annoying it is. And we think

45:48

probably an ineffective way of winning hearts and

45:50

minds to lock down roads and prevent people

45:52

from getting where they're going. But that's separate

45:54

from what the senator is saying here. Well,

45:57

yeah, and of course, he went down the list of things

45:59

that we've seen. We said, make

46:01

us angry when idiots go out

46:04

and decide they're going to

46:06

protest by blocking roads, stopping

46:08

people from getting their children

46:11

to school or people

46:14

maybe taking their elderly parents to

46:16

a hospital. It is just

46:19

so dangerous. And again,

46:21

counterproductive for any cause. Anybody that

46:23

does that, I'm against your cause.

46:26

You know, I think that's how most

46:28

motorists would agree with it.

46:30

But really, he can't really slip

46:32

out of the fact that he was talking about

46:34

ripping the skin off of people's

46:37

hands. He was talking about throwing people

46:39

off the Golden Gate Bridge. I mean,

46:42

this happened on the Golden Gate Bridge. They said,

46:44

well, in Arkansas, we'll throw them over the bridge.

46:46

That's where they need to do that. They need

46:48

to. And so you have, again,

46:50

him talking

46:53

about violence. And you just ask yourself,

46:55

why is a politician think

46:58

that's the road to

47:00

popularity? Kerry Lake talks

47:03

about the armor of God and

47:05

carrying a Glock for some reason. With

47:07

that audience, carrying a Glock gets a

47:09

bigger cheer than the armor of God.

47:11

I think back when I was running,

47:14

at least for people in most

47:18

audiences, armor of God would probably do better

47:20

than strapping on a Glock. Because if you

47:22

say that, you go, what's wrong with him?

47:26

And it goes, again, the

47:28

audience cheering for that reminds

47:32

me of Donald Trump and

47:34

audiences gleefully talking about a

47:37

man in his 80s being

47:40

awakened from sleep and

47:43

nearly being bludgeoned to death by a

47:45

hammer. They

47:48

still celebrate. And I say, they,

47:50

not just Donald Trump, you

47:53

know, say, oh, how sick Donald Trump is. Look

47:56

at the audience. The audience is cheering.

47:59

They're laughing. that a man

48:01

in his 80s got bludgeoned

48:03

almost to the point of death by

48:06

a guy that went in, you

48:08

know, screaming, you know,

48:11

the maggot chant, where's Nancy? Where's

48:14

Nancy? So this is again, this

48:16

is just, again, the

48:18

glorification of violence. And the big

48:20

question is, why

48:24

does this glorification of violence

48:26

sell so well in Donald

48:29

Trump's Republican Party? It's

48:35

sick, it's sad, it's un-American. It's

48:37

scary. And Willie,

48:40

once again, we have

48:42

to look at this for what it is or

48:45

what it appears to be like.

48:47

And it's almost cult-like behavior mimicking

48:49

him, taking on his positions, even

48:51

if some of them are evil

48:53

and cruel and violent. Yeah,

48:57

everyone's doing sort of a poor man's version of

48:59

Donald Trump at these campaign rallies. I think that's

49:01

what you saw from Carrie Lake at that rally.

49:03

And to Joe's point, it was almost like she

49:05

didn't get the response she wanted by saying armor

49:07

of God. So she said, I better throw the

49:09

Glock into the conversation. And she did. And

49:12

Senator Tom Cotton, obviously, is

49:14

taking cues from Donald Trump, too. They know what

49:16

works with their base, and they're going to keep

49:18

pushing on that. And when people in the media

49:21

call them out and question it, there's some value

49:23

for them with that base to double down on

49:25

it. So that's part of what we saw

49:27

yesterday. Joining us now, professor at Princeton

49:29

University, New York Times bestselling author, Eddie

49:31

Glaub, Jr. He's the author of the

49:33

new book titled We Are The Leaders

49:36

We Have Been Looking For. Eddie, we are so

49:38

excited about your book. We're going to talk a

49:40

bunch about it today. I had a great conversation

49:42

around it yesterday. But just your

49:45

reaction to those two clips we just heard

49:47

here and what it says about the political

49:49

climate that we've lived in now for the

49:51

last, call it a decade or so. Right.

49:53

We always need to remember that the specter

49:55

of violence is present when it comes to

49:58

our politics, particularly in this moment. when

50:00

we were so divided. But what's so interesting

50:02

about Tom Cotton, for example, is that he

50:04

didn't say the same thing about the insurrectionist

50:06

on January 6. He

50:08

wasn't talking about forcibly removing or pulling the

50:10

skin off of folks who actually attacked the

50:13

Capitol. So we do know that there

50:15

are certain folk in Tom Cotton's

50:17

mind who have the right to protest

50:19

and other folk who just simply need

50:21

to shut up and be grateful

50:24

that they're in the country. So we need to

50:26

understand where he is and where Kerry Lake is

50:28

and understand that the specter of violence is

50:31

in some ways the shadow, the clouds over our

50:33

politics in this moment. And people need to be

50:36

well aware of that. So

50:38

we want to turn to your book, Eddie. Yesterday on

50:40

the first day of your morning,

50:42

Joe, book residency, you called

50:45

on everyday Americans to take

50:47

control of democracy instead of

50:49

expecting heroes and prophets

50:51

to manage it themselves. But

50:54

as you write in chapter two of

50:56

the book, you have to come to

50:58

that realization yourself with regards to one

51:00

of your own heroes, Malcolm

51:02

X. We

51:04

want freedom by any

51:07

means necessary. We

51:11

want justice by any means necessary.

51:13

We want equality by any means

51:16

necessary. We don't feel that

51:18

in 1964, living in a country that is

51:22

supposedly based upon freedom and

51:24

supposedly the leader of the free world,

51:26

we don't think that we should have

51:29

to sit around and wait for some

51:31

segregationist congressman and senator and

51:33

a president from Texas in Washington DC

51:36

to make up their minds

51:39

that our people are due now some

51:41

degree of civil rights. No, we want

51:43

it now or we don't think anybody

51:45

should have it. So

51:49

very Prussian in these

51:51

times, Maraghay, it really does.

51:54

If you care about democracy, you cannot

51:56

sit back during these times we're in

51:58

right now. watching

52:00

Malcolm X, it's captivating.

52:03

But you know, I have the pleasure of reading

52:05

Eddie's book and actually interviewing him about it the

52:07

other day at a local bookstore here in New

52:09

York City. And one of the things that I

52:11

really love about the book is it talks about

52:14

the other traditions of black

52:16

American activism and

52:18

democracy democratization, which is

52:21

much more about grassroots

52:23

change, versus just

52:25

a focus on on leaders

52:28

and allowing them to

52:30

kind of do the bidding of others. And so,

52:32

you know, really, the woman who I'm thinking of

52:34

this morning, I'm actually not thinking of Malcolm X,

52:37

I'm thinking of Ella Baker, who founded the student

52:40

arm of the movement known as sick. And,

52:43

you know, she said, famously, strong

52:46

people don't need strong leaders, right? And

52:48

so Eddie's Eddie's book really gets at

52:50

that. And I just wanted to know,

52:52

Eddie, if you could talk a little

52:54

bit for us about the role of

52:56

black politics in this time of Trumpism,

52:59

what do Americans need to know about its

53:01

contribution to democracy? Well, I think it's really

53:03

important for us to understand that everyday ordinary

53:06

folk, no matter what community you're in, right,

53:09

that we need to take responsibility for

53:11

our democracy. And that means

53:13

we need to engage in the political

53:15

process, this election, very, very

53:18

directly, we need to turn out in

53:20

massive numbers, and we need to

53:22

hold each other accountable for in some ways,

53:24

making a new America possible. So what I'm

53:26

trying to do in this

53:28

book is get my way to make

53:30

my way to that insight, right, from

53:33

a different kind of pathway. And that

53:35

is through my own kind of effort

53:37

to find my own political voice in some way. So

53:40

certainly an influential figure for you would be

53:42

your parents, and particularly your father

53:44

who you write about. Yeah. In

53:46

this book, Eddie, and we're congratulations, we're so

53:48

happy for you and excited to read it.

53:51

Tell us about about that relationship and how

53:53

that helped shape and so you found your

53:55

voice. Yeah, I, you know, I said, I

53:57

begin chapter two was a very difficult experience.

54:00

You know, I was playing hopscotch

54:02

with a young woman down the street when I was

54:04

in elementary school, in elementary school. And I

54:06

was playing with her because I thought she was so cute.

54:09

And I wanted to, I wanted to mess up.

54:11

I was messing up, you know, stepping on all

54:13

the lines as it were because I wanted her

54:15

to show it to me over and over and

54:17

over again. And I

54:19

hear my dad scream for me

54:21

to come down. And then he, I

54:24

came into the house and he asked me this question, what

54:26

are you, a fag or something? In

54:28

front of my uncle. And you know,

54:30

it was this kind of moment in which I

54:33

was just a young man, young child, really.

54:36

A question, my sexuality was questioned

54:38

by the most responsible man I've

54:40

ever known. I am my

54:42

father's child. I look just like him. Um,

54:46

he, he is the most responsible person.

54:48

He put all of the discipline I

54:51

could imagine that I have in me,

54:54

but he scared the shit out of me. He

54:57

could just look at me and I

54:59

could cry. And

55:01

so I had to figure out or

55:03

I had to deal with something in my gut. And

55:06

that is that I felt like I was a coward because

55:08

he scared me. So, and so

55:11

I found myself reaching for heroes and

55:13

Malcolm became my, so that's why I

55:15

have my goatee still. Yeah.

55:18

Wow. Um,

55:21

so let me, uh, let me ask you

55:23

Eddie. And

55:28

I want people to hear

55:30

me. Let, uh, let those with ears

55:32

here. I'm not comparing these

55:35

two next two men I'm talking

55:37

about. Um, you've

55:41

got an extraordinary message, but

55:44

look at who we

55:46

elected president from 2008 to

55:48

2020. You

55:52

had in Barack Obama, a

55:54

guy who was like a

55:56

superstar. I remember driving

55:58

past, uh, play a game. places and

56:00

sing pop art I almost

56:02

like Warhol art and

56:04

you had people talking about like this

56:06

guy was a second coming of of

56:09

Christ he was called black Jesus he

56:11

was elevated to such a high degree

56:15

that there were times that his

56:17

own life was that come on guy and

56:20

down his feet smell. Right

56:22

right they were they were

56:24

they were definitely in on

56:26

the job but for Americans

56:28

for some reason this

56:31

guy was elevated to

56:34

black Jesus status they needed that that's

56:36

what they call them inside the campaign

56:39

and then just

56:41

a mirror image of that we

56:44

we we then have Americans racing

56:47

another part of Americans racing to

56:49

this pop figure and and we've gone

56:52

from we we go

56:54

from pop art to now something I

56:56

think is genuinely unhealthy for

56:59

Republicans them or whatever like

57:02

a politician becoming their

57:04

identity flying flags screaming

57:06

out things having just constantly and

57:09

and in both cases you had

57:11

Americans they needed a big leader

57:13

a big leader on the left

57:16

a big leader on the right.

57:19

When you know

57:21

they weren't looking to themselves they weren't looking

57:23

to their communities they weren't looking to their

57:26

people they needed a

57:28

political savior in the June I both

57:30

know that doesn't work. You

57:32

know Joe you hit it right on the head,

57:34

you know we always looking for you the John

57:36

Wayne or Marvel comic superhero and

57:38

we think that John Wayne has a kind

57:40

of moxie that we don't have I'm dating

57:43

myself I suppose or the more Marvel comic

57:45

you know what you know they have the

57:47

superhero power some spider bro radioactive spider bit

57:49

someone right that that's the only way that

57:51

you could be heroic I think that's just

57:53

wrong. You know, Ralph Raldo Emerson

57:55

said that great people come to us

57:57

to make even greater people possible. They

58:00

exemplify what we're capable of. And one

58:02

of the things I had to do

58:04

with Malcolm is to understand that I

58:06

lost myself in my imitation of him.

58:09

I had to understand the way in

58:11

which he was kind of searching. Imani

58:13

Perry, when we were reading Manning Marbles'

58:16

Pulitzer Prize winning biography together, and she said,

58:18

when he left the nation, he was

58:20

flailing and failing about. He was a

58:22

wounded witness. And what does that

58:25

mean for me? It brings Malcolm, just like Dr.

58:27

King yesterday, it brings him down to the ground

58:29

as an example. And so the

58:31

journey I've made with my father, this

58:34

man who loved me to death, he

58:36

loved me hard. Oh my god. And

58:38

I know you're watching, Daddy, and I

58:40

know you're feeling getting better, and

58:42

I want you to get better, and I

58:44

want you to know that I love you

58:46

more than beyond numbers, man, that you've made

58:48

me who I am, right? You

58:51

see, I look just like him, right? That's why I'm

58:53

a junior. And so

58:55

I had to understand that

58:58

Malcolm is an exemplification of

59:00

what I can be, not someone

59:02

for me to bow down to. So

59:05

we don't need a Barack Obama to

59:07

be black Jesus. We don't need a

59:09

Donald Trump to save

59:11

the country. We need each other.

59:14

That's the only way America can step into a

59:17

new way of being, Joe, in my view. And

59:19

I'm arguing that in the book. Eddie,

59:21

it sounds like a message that could motivate a

59:24

lot of voters who are feeling pretty

59:26

disaffected right now. Do you think that's

59:28

something that the Democrats should pay closer

59:30

attention to instead of acting as saviors

59:33

or trying to? Yeah, you know, we need

59:35

to stop. The political parties need to stop

59:37

treating everyday Americans as cattle chewing cud to

59:41

herd to the polls every two and four

59:43

years. And Americans, we need

59:45

to stop allowing ourselves to be treated that

59:47

way. We need to become better

59:49

people. When we become better people, we'll send

59:51

better people to Washington, DC. All

59:54

right. I love that. All

59:57

right, Eddie Glaude, Jr. Thank you so much.

1:00:00

book, We Are the Leaders We Have

1:00:02

Been Looking For is on sale now. And

1:00:05

Eddie will continue his Morning Joe book

1:00:07

residency tomorrow right here. And Mara Gay,

1:00:10

thank you as well. We really appreciate

1:00:12

it. You can

1:00:14

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