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for the love of home. If

0:30

you like puppies, you're not

0:32

going to like Kristi Noem. Because

0:34

in her new book, Noem admitted

0:37

to killing her dog. Now, I

0:39

know that sounds terrible. Look,

0:42

I know it sounds terrible, but

0:44

it's much worse. Cricket

0:47

ruined the hunt, going out

0:50

of her mind with excitement, chasing

0:52

all those birds and having the time of

0:54

her life. But

0:57

who among us hasn't seen a dog running through the

0:59

fields, not a care in the world, and thought, you

1:01

deserve to die? When

1:04

you're trying to win over voters, I'm not sure being the bad

1:06

guy in a John Wick movie is the best way to go.

1:11

This is a crazy person. I have to say, I'm afraid of

1:13

what she might do when she finds out

1:15

how many chickens her favorite president has killed. All

1:20

right, the Kristi Noem story providing

1:22

the late night shows with plenty

1:24

of material. Even conservative media has

1:26

turned on the Republican governor of

1:28

South Dakota, now dismissing her as

1:30

a serious contender for Donald Trump's

1:32

running mate. We're going to play

1:34

that reaction for you. There was

1:36

a lot of it. People

1:39

just don't get it. I don't think anyone

1:41

really understands how you kill a puppy. Anywho,

1:45

also this morning, former President Trump

1:47

will be back in court today

1:49

for his criminal hush money trial.

1:51

We'll have a preview of what

1:53

to expect on that. Also

1:56

new this morning, Fox News

1:58

facing another threat. of

2:00

litigation almost a year after the

2:02

network agreed to pay hundreds of

2:04

millions of dollars to

2:06

Dominion voting systems. And this this

2:09

challenge coming from Hunter Biden. Yeah, he

2:12

is I guess considering

2:14

a lawsuit they made an announcement about

2:16

it yesterday. We'll tell you the very

2:18

latest. Well and OAN had to

2:21

settle willy with

2:23

Michael Cohen for lying about

2:25

him. It's almost as if people

2:28

like Rudy Giuliani and that

2:30

info wars guy and all

2:33

these other people are learning that well

2:36

defamation laws still have

2:38

Biden America. You can't

2:40

just make up stuff

2:42

about other people and

2:44

just run it on your network. Yeah, there's

2:46

a cost that OAN had to retract a

2:49

story about Michael Cohen. We know that almost

2:51

a billion dollars that settlement that came down

2:53

against Fox News perhaps left a mark and

2:55

that they will now be dealing with another

2:58

lawsuit from Hunter Biden who knows what the

3:00

number will be there. But yeah, there are

3:02

consequences to spewing false information out

3:04

into the atmosphere and it's good to see

3:06

some people now starting to hold news

3:09

organizations that just make stuff up in

3:11

the interest of politics to defame people

3:13

or being held accountable. Well

3:16

make stuff up and then refuse to retract and

3:18

when it's brought to their attention that they were

3:20

wrong. I mean we'll see what happened

3:22

in the Hunter Biden's case but we've

3:25

seen time and time again Rudy Giuliani

3:27

still going around I think lying about

3:30

conspiracy theories and everything else.

3:32

It just goes on and

3:35

on but it's pretty crazy.

3:37

You look at again

3:40

all of the false information

3:42

and again it's like

3:45

we've said it's almost as if gravity's

3:47

return. Speaking of gravity

3:49

returning, gravity returning I hear

3:51

Willie to Madison

3:53

Square Garden And

3:55

in fact like... Where are you going with this? No,

3:58

where I'm going is you got the news. You

4:01

got the Rangers. See. A guy?

4:03

Yeah now. The. It's

4:05

if it had been floating in the

4:08

the as the stratosphere of era irrelevance

4:10

since about nineteen Seventy one was cycling

4:12

supposed to Just crazy that George that

4:14

that July was unfair was no to

4:17

seventy three since we last one out

4:19

of the ideal on economy sentences. He

4:21

while the of I saw them iceland

4:24

because I was about the David George

4:26

guys and I were at that last

4:28

game game to with the Garden with

4:31

Dante. Shinzo Hit that three and the

4:33

place was physically shaking Madison Square. Garden

4:35

in the unlike any files I've had. Have

4:37

any game anywhere? South's next up three to

4:39

one. Richard Haass and I were just talking.

4:42

Need to close it out tonight. Don't leave

4:44

that door open. The sixers go back home

4:46

when game six and it's as high stakes

4:48

game sense a hoping the next in close

4:50

out to nights and I fully expect the

4:52

guard to beat at it's very best. Are

4:56

I had along with tell well

4:58

as any we have the has

5:00

to wait to really what has

5:02

guaranteed that political ton of money

5:04

or President Emeritus of the Council

5:06

On Foreign Relations? Richard Haass is

5:08

the author of the weekly newsletter,

5:10

Home and Away available on such

5:12

facts and Pulitzer prize winning calmness.

5:14

An associate editor of the Washington

5:16

Post, Eugene Robinson is with us

5:18

as well this morning, and we

5:20

begin this morning with the growing

5:22

on arrests at Columbia University Overnight.

5:25

People. Protesting as roles more

5:27

against Hamas occupied a campus

5:29

building the same one students

5:32

took over in the nineteen

5:34

sixties. The. Building assists

5:36

a few hundred feet away from

5:38

the Gaza encampment site. And.

5:40

Now the university is urging

5:42

people to avoid coming to

5:44

campus today. If. They can.

5:47

The protests escalated just hours after

5:49

the Him and Universe they began

5:51

suspending students to refuse to leave

5:54

the encampment. The tense had been

5:56

up for nearly two weeks and

5:58

the university once. Queer it

6:01

before graduation. On. May

6:03

sixteenth. The protesters held a

6:05

press conference yesterday afternoon. same

6:07

the university has not made

6:10

significant concessions to their main

6:12

demand for group wants com

6:14

Columbia to divest from companies

6:17

with links to Israel to

6:19

students. Also claim Columbia has

6:21

stopped negotiations. As a result,

6:24

they say they will close

6:26

Nazi Move unless by force.

6:29

My Protons illegal alien other college

6:31

campuses. Well, the University of Texas

6:33

protesters clashed with police were resulting

6:36

in dozens of arrests. Video shows

6:38

officers in riot gear dragging carry

6:40

out demonstrators and University says at

6:42

least forty people were taken into

6:44

custody yesterday for trespassing and disorderly

6:46

conduct. Many of them were not

6:49

affiliated with the school phenomenon where

6:51

see a many of these campuses.

6:53

Meanwhile, the University of Utah police

6:55

were called to disperse the crowd

6:57

of protesters. Murphy says seventeen people

7:00

were arrested last nights when officer

7:02

was injured. It's a hatchet was

7:04

confiscated their the number of arrests

7:06

campuses across the nation now approaching

7:08

one thousand. Let's bring in the

7:10

sea of the Anti Defamation League

7:12

and Jonathan Greenblatt Eugene Robinson also

7:15

writing about this. Visited the campus

7:17

of George Washington University yesterday so

7:19

I generally gets are pressing first

7:21

of what you saw. I G

7:23

w been one of the flash

7:25

points in in these college campus.

7:28

Protests over the last year is what did

7:30

you see in your reporting yesterday? Well

7:33

are either I guess there and

7:35

of further from free quiet moment

7:38

the night before had been very

7:40

loud moment on Sunday night or

7:42

look for the protesters. Who

7:45

the hell is essentially who was

7:48

a small and to have been

7:50

on the university yard or authorities

7:52

had surrounded it with a with

7:55

barricades as did they actually had

7:57

asked The. Dc police to

7:59

clear. that small encampment

8:01

on Friday night and the

8:04

DC Metropolitan Police said, no,

8:07

we don't think that's a great idea. So

8:09

they didn't do it. So it was still there.

8:12

And then on Sunday night, the

8:14

students had torn down the

8:16

barricades and rushed in and put up

8:18

a whole bunch more tents. So it

8:21

was a larger encampment. But it was

8:23

very quiet when I was there, actually,

8:25

in the morning. Some

8:27

of the protesters were asleep. Some

8:30

were sitting outside

8:32

of their tents, apparently

8:34

cramming for finals. And

8:38

so when I was there, there

8:40

wasn't any chanting. There wasn't any

8:42

shouting. There haven't been the kinds

8:44

of conflictive

8:48

encounters at

8:51

George Washington that we've seen at

8:54

some of the other universities. And

8:57

so the administration is trying to figure out what

9:00

to do. But

9:03

it's a stalemate as it is

9:05

on, I think there are

9:07

protests at more than 50 campuses around the

9:10

country right now. You

9:12

know, Gene, I think

9:14

it may be the only time in your

9:16

life you struck a Nixonian pose that morning.

9:20

You remember the story of Nixon

9:22

wanting to go out and understand

9:24

the anti-war protesters. So again, they're

9:26

so early in the morning wearing

9:29

his dress shoes that they were

9:31

still asleep at the Lincoln Memorial.

9:33

And Nixon tried to talk to

9:35

them about USC football. Yeah, yeah,

9:37

yeah. What

9:40

do you think? I'm curious what your

9:42

thoughts are. I

9:45

had a lot of nice,

9:48

wonderful, well-intentioned people

9:50

that watched this

9:52

show, loved this

9:54

show, write me yesterday,

9:56

and I wrote a lot of them back, called

9:58

one or two back. saying, you

10:01

know, the Vietnam War was a bad

10:03

war, Joe, and you were talking, and

10:05

this Gaza thing, we understand the kids

10:07

and what they're doing. I understand, obviously,

10:09

the protests to an unjust war. And

10:12

we've, of course, been bitterly critical of

10:14

Netanyahu's response in Gaza. So we understand

10:17

all of that. I'm

10:19

just curious what your thoughts are

10:22

on, and we're going to talk to Jonathan Greenblatt

10:24

in one moment. But how you

10:26

balance that with not

10:28

just outside agitators, but also a

10:30

rising sense

10:33

of anti-Semitism on college campuses and

10:35

social life. And I will tell

10:37

you, I know

10:40

firsthand from friends and

10:42

family members that Jews

10:44

are being pushed to

10:47

the side socially and

10:49

that woke

10:52

white girls and boys coming from

10:54

elite families are telling their friends

10:56

that they can't hang out with

10:58

Jewish friends. And

11:00

I could go on. And

11:02

maybe one of the reasons I was as

11:05

engaged as I was yesterday is I've

11:09

been hearing about this now for three, four,

11:11

five, six months, where Jewish

11:13

students don't feel safe

11:15

on college campuses. And

11:18

this isn't a bubble

11:20

wrap or snowflake moment. This

11:22

is people talking about genocide, screaming at

11:24

them as they try to go to

11:26

their English class on campus. So what

11:28

do we do, Gene? Well,

11:31

look, the anti-Semitism is

11:33

intolerable. It

11:36

is awful. And

11:38

it is going to wreck,

11:40

to destroy the movement

11:44

and prevent any sort

11:46

of chance of them achieving

11:49

any of their aims. And I'll get

11:51

to the aims in a minute. But

11:55

it's crazy. And it has

11:57

to stop. I,

12:02

when I happened to be there, I

12:04

didn't witness it. There hasn't been that

12:08

much at George Washington

12:10

of that sort of thing. But

12:12

then again, not every protest is

12:14

alike. And I know, I've seen

12:16

some of the video and some of the

12:18

scenes and some of the

12:20

audio from Columbia and from

12:23

some of these other protests. And

12:25

it's horrible. It's atrocious. And,

12:28

you know, anti-Semitism, if

12:32

anti-Semitism is going to be a central

12:34

element of this movement, then

12:37

it deserves to fail and

12:39

it will fail. But

12:41

what I saw and what I think

12:43

we're seeing in polls that have been

12:45

taken, and this and that, is something

12:48

of a generational shift in

12:50

overall sort of attitudes

12:52

and impressions of the

12:55

Palestinian-Israeli conflict.

12:59

And we've seen polls showing that

13:01

younger adults, 30 and under, are

13:03

much more sympathetic to

13:10

the Palestinians than older

13:12

groups. And

13:15

perhaps they are less aware

13:17

of history. They seem to be very

13:19

confused about how and why the state

13:21

of Israel was founded. And this and

13:23

that. But

13:26

this is real. I mean, this is

13:29

being shown in poll after poll. And

13:32

these kids grow up. And so I think

13:36

it's something that we ought to pay attention to in sort

13:39

of that macro lens. You

13:41

know, Willie, the thing is, and I'm

13:43

certainly not saying this of all the

13:45

student protesters that are out there, and

13:48

certainly not children of

13:51

Palestinian families who

13:53

have lost loved ones

13:56

through the years in this war,

13:59

in this conflict. conflict. I

14:02

will say though, among again, and I've

14:04

spoken with some of them, I want

14:07

to be careful, but among these white,

14:10

woke, pampered, elitist,

14:13

I'm not supposed to use that

14:15

word, let's say children from wealthy

14:17

families that decide, as Dr.

14:19

Brzezinski said so many years ago, that

14:22

they're going to play radical for a

14:24

weekend and then go home to mommy

14:26

and daddy's mansion. There's

14:29

a complete ignorance about

14:31

the complexities of this issue. Now,

14:34

of course, if you listen to the show, you would

14:36

understand many of the complexities of

14:38

this issue because we have been really

14:41

tough on Israeli officials that come

14:43

on this show. We have asked

14:46

why they've continued to allow illegal settlements

14:48

in the West Bank over the decade,

14:51

why they have continued to fight against

14:53

a two state solution for peace, why

14:56

they have done what they've done in

14:58

Gaza, why they did with Hamas, why

15:01

Netanyahu was Hamas's ally leading

15:04

up to October the 7th. So it's

15:07

very complicated. That's lost

15:09

though in a lot of those things. And

15:11

when you start talking about even

15:14

West Bank settlements with a lot of

15:16

these students, their eyes glaze

15:18

over. They, because that's not

15:20

in the TikTok video. And again,

15:22

I'm not saying this about all the students, but

15:25

I will tell you, I'm saying about a hell of

15:27

a lot of students I have spoken with when

15:29

you go, well, you know, in 2000, there was

15:31

an Oslo Accord where Bill Clinton had gotten together

15:34

and they were giving 97% of

15:36

the West Bank to the Palestinians and the other

15:38

3% they were going to make up with Israeli

15:40

land and they had figured out a capital

15:44

in East and they sit there with

15:46

their eyes glazed. Just have no idea

15:48

what happened in this peace

15:50

process, what happened through the years.

15:53

They just, they see something on TikTok

15:55

and they're like Israel bad and

15:58

Hamas good. Go out and

16:00

they start. Shouting. A juice. Yeah

16:03

a mommy that you really have to go

16:05

that deep you can ask what is it

16:07

needs a chance from the river to the

16:09

sea and they don't know and then when

16:11

you tell them when it is and seen

16:13

as from reporters asking some with not again

16:15

not all them someone have a deep understanding

16:17

of then they don't understand that means the

16:19

elimination of the state of Israel and the

16:22

people who live within that states I've been

16:24

having a lie the same conversations as you

16:26

jokes says he walked ourselves. You know how

16:28

critical we've been of Netanyahu with the prosecution

16:30

of the war that we leave and mourn

16:32

for children. And women who have been killed. In

16:35

this war that are starving in this

16:37

war it's a terrible terrible thing. But

16:39

that does not give kids and college

16:42

campuses license to change from the river

16:44

to the seats. And to say that

16:46

Jewish kids should not exist in some

16:48

cases. ah at Columbia for example. So

16:50

Jonathan that I'm from your point of

16:52

view of the eighty else what are

16:55

you hearing? I mean we use be

16:57

brought us the great. Look

16:59

at the Jewish experienced since October Seventh,

17:01

But right now in the midst of

17:03

these protests. What? Is it like

17:05

to be a Jewish students on the

17:08

campus of not just Columbia University of

17:10

Texas? Their whole bunch of silence? It's

17:12

the right question. Willie, you know I

17:14

was at U C L A on

17:16

Sunday I was at Us see on

17:19

Fridays talking to do student has a

17:21

Columbia last week's and let me tell

17:23

you, I don't know exactly what Eugene

17:25

saw a T W in terms these

17:27

tense. but I've talked to students from

17:29

all these universities and they don't feel

17:32

afraid. They are with good reason. right?

17:34

In India means. as mentioned in

17:36

the opening here you had some

17:38

a with a hatchet the university

17:40

you toss you had students with

17:42

hammers who broken tooth via the

17:44

building at columbia last night he

17:47

would someone with a sword at

17:49

u c l a on sundays

17:51

this isn't normal people showing up

17:53

fully concealing their faces like they're

17:55

isis fighters that isn't normal and

17:57

i've heard from kids again and

18:00

and again and again. They are leaving

18:02

campus, they are moving out of their

18:04

dorms because they are worried

18:06

at Columbia, of course. President Shafik,

18:08

she had to close classes. I don't

18:10

know if people realize this. Classes are

18:13

over at Columbia. They all went remote

18:15

because the administration was so afraid of

18:17

these people. I see these videos, I

18:20

see these images of mass protesters breaking

18:22

into buildings, barricading them with furniture and

18:24

look, I'm reminded of January the 6th.

18:27

That's what this looks like to me.

18:30

I mean, we talk at ADL

18:32

about right-wing extremists, about masked proud

18:34

boys showing up at school board

18:36

meetings, about oath keepers wearing

18:39

masks. I look at this and this is

18:41

what I see and let's be

18:43

clear about one thing. The students who are doing

18:45

this, the groups behind it, SJP,

18:47

Palestinian Youth Movement, their response to President

18:49

Shafik's offer last night was we, Columbia,

18:52

will burn. I mean, these students, we

18:54

shouldn't treat them like children when they

18:56

are hard and activists. Well,

18:59

they are adults and go ahead. I

19:03

was just going to say this is one

19:05

half about the students, it's also about these

19:07

authorities and the lack of them.

19:10

Why are these school administrators,

19:12

why are they abdicating their

19:14

responsibility to this degree? And

19:17

this affects students, it affects outsiders, it

19:20

affects teachers with tenure. The last I

19:22

checked, tenure is supposed to give you

19:24

intellectual protection so you can say things

19:26

in classrooms. It doesn't,

19:29

it seems to me, give you the

19:31

ability to break the law with impunity.

19:33

And I just don't understand what's, and

19:35

you see also the difference on the

19:37

campuses between what's happening on some, Chicago

19:39

and Florida, as opposed to what's

19:41

happening at Columbia and others. There's an enormous

19:44

gap in the principle and

19:46

backbone we're seeing here. Well,

19:49

Richard, to your point, I think that's where

19:51

we've all, that's the place we've all been

19:53

sitting and watching this going, what the hell

19:55

is going on? What are

19:57

these universities doing? Why aren't they doing

19:59

something? and I'll echo the horror that

20:03

this does look like January 6th. What

20:05

a terrible example for our students. At

20:08

the same time, these are young adults and

20:10

the question is why do you choose to

20:13

learn about the complexities of other situations

20:15

around the world, but this one you

20:17

want to set up an encampment, this

20:19

one you want to scare people, this one

20:21

you want to come to the edge of violence or even

20:23

go to violence. Not this one,

20:26

you rip your future and

20:29

your education fall. See,

20:32

I think these college students obviously

20:34

are missing the part

20:36

where they need to see what's going on

20:38

across the country with these protests, that

20:41

it's now in the realm of

20:43

violence, it's in the realm of

20:45

hatred, whether some are peaceful or

20:47

not, they need to watch the

20:49

news and look at all the

20:51

different arguments and be adults or start

20:53

learning to be adults and set

20:55

up discussions and debates across college campuses

20:58

or their colleges or universities are

21:00

going to have no choice but

21:02

to expel them and ruin

21:04

their future, the impact they want to

21:06

have on the community, society and the

21:08

world at some point. But let's then

21:10

go to the hard part of this.

21:14

What is the solution for

21:16

college university presidents

21:19

and deans who want to

21:21

maintain control but also

21:25

preserve free speech? What are solutions?

21:27

Let's talk about solutions. It's very

21:29

simple. First of all,

21:31

you enforce the rules of your

21:33

college campuses. There is a concept. But you know that

21:35

at this point would be hard to do. Well,

21:39

no, actually, you either follow the law

21:41

or you don't follow the law. You

21:45

don't follow the law. There's a concept

21:48

in the First Amendment. Now,

21:50

if you, I will say, I

21:53

understand over the last 24 hours

21:55

what the Columbia administration has been trying to do.

21:57

They've been trying to bring this to a peaceful.

22:00

for resolution and what happened, people got

22:02

hammers and they broke into buildings. At

22:04

that point, that's a crime, they should

22:07

all be arrested and they shouldn't be

22:09

suspended, they should be expelled from schools.

22:13

But this is virtue signaling

22:15

of the worst order for,

22:17

again, white woke kids that

22:19

have no idea what they're

22:22

talking about here, no

22:24

idea other than what they've seen on

22:26

TikTok. Again, there's a huge gulf in

22:29

my mind between children

22:31

of Palestinian families

22:34

who have been a part of this

22:37

tragedy and this suffering over the

22:39

decades. And so I am

22:41

not one to be able to sit in

22:43

judgment of them, but I

22:46

can sit in judgment of school administrators. What

22:48

do you do? What

22:50

do you do in a situation like this?

22:54

You stop the law breaking, you

22:56

make your campus safe for everyone, for

22:59

everyone, for everyone. You

23:03

don't allow these protesters to take

23:05

the campus over themselves and say,

23:07

this is our viewpoint, we are

23:09

going to scream, we are going

23:11

to set up encampments, we are

23:13

going to dominate this debate. So

23:15

you only hear our side and

23:17

the louder we scream, the more

23:19

self-righteous we feel. That's what

23:21

they're doing. The idea of colleges, Willie,

23:23

the last time I checked, for

23:27

at least when there still were

23:29

liberal, sort of a liberal tradition

23:31

of learning at places

23:33

like Columbia, you

23:36

actually have discussions. You

23:39

actually pursue the truth,

23:41

not your truth, not

23:44

the truth you were feeling. You

23:46

try to pursue the truth, what

23:48

the truth is. And if

23:50

you can't get to the truth in

23:53

a place like Israel, then

23:55

what you do is... You

24:00

talk through it and you try to

24:02

work towards peace. And

24:05

you try to work towards a two-state solution. Now

24:07

people say, and I've heard this from

24:10

students on college campuses, oh you can't

24:12

even bring up a two-state solution because

24:14

they say that's a Zionist conspiracy. Peace

24:18

for the Palestinians is

24:21

a Zionist conspiracy. Go ahead, take these pictures

24:23

down. I want to talk to Willie. Willie,

24:29

who's learning by these images that we

24:31

saw? Who's learning more about the Middle

24:33

East? Who's learning about

24:35

the illegal settlements on the West

24:38

Bank, set up by

24:40

Netanyahu? Who's talked through a discussion

24:42

with, let's say, Jewish students,

24:44

to say you understand your government's

24:46

been illegally setting up settlements

24:49

in the West Bank, making

24:52

a two-state solution next to impossible

24:55

while cynically aligning

24:57

with Hamas because you

24:59

want to undermine the people who don't

25:02

want to wipe Israel off the map

25:05

because they're the biggest threat to

25:07

a two-state solution. And if you

25:09

get both sides talking together, you

25:11

would find out that Hamas and

25:14

Netanyahu, both

25:16

are enemies of a

25:19

two-state solution. So maybe that's

25:21

why they were working together to divide

25:26

people in Israel, to divide

25:28

people in Gaza, to divide people in

25:30

the West Bank, and to divide people

25:32

on college campuses. And then you ask

25:35

the question, okay, so we understand there

25:37

are people who are enemies of peace

25:39

here. What

25:42

do we do to outthink them? What

25:44

do we do to outmaneuver them? How

25:47

do we move toward peace? Because

25:49

that's what this should all be about, not

25:52

virtue signaling or screaming or breaking into buildings,

25:55

but for that to happen, people

25:58

that run universities They can't

26:01

allow anarchists to take

26:03

over buildings. They use

26:05

hammers to break into buildings. Now,

26:07

if you say, oh, you can't do it,

26:09

yeah, you can enforce the law. You

26:13

can enforce the law, and

26:15

then you can start classes again,

26:17

and then you can begin teaching

26:21

students, like having

26:23

discussions with students, talking

26:26

about the horrific, horrific

26:30

complexities that

26:32

have surrounded this argument,

26:34

this debate since 1948. And

26:38

then maybe you learn something. We kind

26:41

of think that's what colleges are about,

26:43

not getting hammers and breaking into and

26:46

occupying buildings at Columbia

26:48

University. Joe, your analysis

26:50

is sophisticated, thoughtful, and more than an inch

26:52

deep, so it's just not going to work.

26:55

I'm afraid. It won't work. It

26:57

was too thoughtful there. I will say,

26:59

for all these images we've seen and

27:02

been discussed, those conversations are happening. I

27:05

can speak for my own school of Vanderbilt.

27:07

We had the chancellor on last week. You

27:09

guys have talked a lot about Dartmouth, where

27:11

they're having these discussions. They're bringing in an

27:14

Israeli ambassador and somebody, the head of

27:16

the Palestinian authority, and they're explaining their sides,

27:18

and they're having a civil debate, and no

27:21

one has a hammer, and no one's yelling.

27:23

They're giving people places on campuses to protest.

27:26

And then, in the case of Vanderbilt anyway, when

27:28

they stormed into a building and broke a window

27:30

and pushed a security guard aside and sat there

27:32

for a day, the students

27:35

were suspended. They looked individually at all their

27:37

cases, and they expelled a handful of them.

27:40

We've given you all these outlets, Jonathan. We've given

27:42

you places to have these conversations, which is what

27:45

college is supposed to be. You don't have to

27:47

pick a side. Just listen to the debate. Totally.

27:50

But, I mean, do you think any

27:52

of the people in that building at

27:54

Columbia right now actually want to have

27:56

that conversation? Look, President Shafik needs to

27:58

deliver consequences, not make concessions. Chancellor

28:00

Diermeier at Vandy is an example

28:02

of just a leader with moral

28:05

clarity. That's your alma mater, my

28:07

alma mater is Northwestern. President

28:09

Michael Shill actually gave

28:11

into the protesters yesterday

28:14

at Northwestern inexplicably,

28:17

literally making a series of concessions

28:19

to them after they did the

28:21

same thing. And I think we

28:23

need to keep in mind, these

28:25

demonstrators are ruining it for everyone.

28:27

They are holding a hostage, kids

28:29

graduation, commencements, just the final exams

28:31

period. So it's not just a

28:33

Jewish problem, it's everyone's problem. And

28:36

Jonathan, these kids that

28:38

are going to miss their college

28:41

graduation because

28:44

of these people, these people

28:46

that are occupying buildings and

28:48

making the campus unsafe were

28:50

the same ones that missed

28:52

their high school graduations because

28:54

of COVID. Again,

28:57

the selfishness, it's

28:59

extraordinary that

29:01

they have to shut down campuses when

29:03

in fact there are ways for them

29:05

to get their message across. Of course

29:07

there are. And keep in mind the

29:09

numbers, the numbers, Columbia has 30,000 students.

29:13

You know how many are in this encampment, Joe? It's like

29:15

200. So we're

29:17

talking about seven tenths of 1%. Same

29:21

kind of numbers at Northwestern are all

29:23

these schools. This is a fringe between

29:25

literally like six tenths and 1% of

29:28

all of the students. And

29:32

I would say one other point that's really

29:34

important. You know, not all Jews look like

29:36

me. There are plenty of Jews

29:38

from the Middle East at USC

29:40

on Friday. I heard from an

29:42

Iranian Jewish student whose parents fled

29:45

the Islamic Revolution who's basically been

29:47

told you can't be part of

29:49

the Middle East North African group

29:52

because you're Jewish. He's more from the

29:54

Middle East than many if not most

29:56

of these people. He grew up hearing

29:58

Farsi in his... his home as

30:01

his first language. But you know

30:03

what? To these kids, because he's

30:05

Jewish, you know, he's

30:07

not part of the crowd. That

30:09

is racism, plain and simple. And

30:12

so, look, much like you

30:14

were talking about, about Hamas earlier, and

30:16

I'm sure Richard will talk about it

30:18

in a bit, Israel keeps offering them

30:20

concessions, making offers on hostages, and they

30:22

refuse. And these demonstrators,

30:25

these activists, they get

30:27

offered concessions by the universities. Look at

30:29

what's happening at Columbia right there. They

30:31

simply refuse to accept because it seems

30:34

like their goal isn't to

30:36

come to some conclusion. It's about

30:38

what's better for the Palestinians. It's

30:40

just to reject Israel, to reject

30:43

their Jewish peers. Again, that's racism,

30:45

and it's wrong. Right.

30:47

And Jonathan O'Mear, there was a Columbia student

30:49

that was quoted, and that was UCLA. I

30:51

believe there's a Columbia student that was quoted

30:53

in The New York Times yesterday. Who said,

30:55

I support a ceasefire. I

30:57

really wanted to go in, and

31:00

I wanted to be with the

31:04

people that were protesting for a

31:06

ceasefire. But basically, it wasn't about

31:08

a ceasefire. It was

31:10

about the end of Israel. And because

31:12

I support Israel, they told me the

31:14

existence of Israel, not what Israel

31:17

is doing, the very existence of

31:19

Israel, because I supported

31:21

the existence of Israel as

31:23

a Jew, but because it's a Jew,

31:25

I also supported peace and

31:28

a ceasefire at the end of

31:30

the war in Gaza. They told me

31:32

that because I didn't

31:34

want Israel to be eliminated from the face

31:37

of the earth, I was not

31:39

allowed to be part of their protests. Yeah.

31:41

We had Mayor Eric Adams in New York

31:43

City on yesterday who said it was a

31:45

mix of student protesters, as well as outside

31:47

agitators. And he was clear to say most

31:50

of the students were peaceful. They were there

31:52

on campus, and the outside agitators were causing

31:54

most of the trouble in hurling the violent

31:56

rhetoric. And we're not sure who yet has

31:58

occupied this building, Hamilton Hall, the building. main

32:00

academic building in Columbia, it's also the site

32:02

of the major Vietnam War protests of the

32:05

1960s, which also Columbia University has put out

32:07

an alert this morning telling students and personnel

32:09

to stay off campus today

32:11

because of what's happening there at Hamilton.

32:15

And certainly there's a place for

32:17

peaceful protest. There shouldn't be any

32:19

anti-Semitism, any anti-air- But Jonathan, this

32:21

is your college. Jonathan, who allows

32:23

this? Who allows students to

32:25

take over? Again, this is

32:28

not, I tell you,

32:30

if this happened at Vanderbilt or

32:32

University of Alabama, it would be over.

32:35

It would be at Alabama, my God, it would

32:37

be over in five minutes. Who

32:40

allows students to

32:43

break in illegally into

32:46

buildings and occupy buildings?

32:50

Well, I mean, Columbia does is, we should know, Columbia

32:52

is proud of its history of protests.

32:55

That's part of who Columbia is. That said, of

32:57

course, this seems like the administration has made clear

32:59

this has crossed any number of lines. No, this

33:01

doesn't keep kids away from Columbia. You're

33:04

saying it's part of Columbia's storied

33:06

history to allow people to go

33:08

in and illegally break into buildings?

33:10

To protest people. Oh, no, no,

33:13

no, no, no, no. They're proud of

33:15

illegally breaking into buildings and taking over

33:17

President's offices in the 1960s. And

33:21

you would think if that hung over

33:23

them for 50 years, they would have been

33:25

better prepared than this time. And certainly they

33:27

were not. And students and alumni and parents

33:29

alike are upset as to how this has

33:31

been handled. And certainly they're hoping to move

33:33

to a quick resolution. We don't know yet

33:36

whether the NYPD might be involved or not.

33:38

Mayor Adams yesterday had said Columbia had not

33:40

asked for that. We will see if that

33:42

changes in the hours ahead. It's obviously a developing

33:44

story. Now, Richard, I do want to get to

33:46

you what Jonathan just brought up a minute ago,

33:49

which is the ongoing state of these hostage negotiations.

33:51

We heard of Secretary of State Blinken was in

33:53

Saudi Arabia yesterday. He said Israel had made a

33:55

generous offer that we're simply waiting

33:57

on Hamas. Also, U.S. officials tell me. They

34:00

feel like there's a very narrow window here to

34:02

get something done. There's concern that Hamas frankly just

34:04

doesn't have that many hostages left to give back,

34:07

at least those that meet the criteria of this

34:09

deal. And also Prime

34:11

Minister Netanyahu in his aides keeps saying, a

34:13

Rafa invasion is coming. The

34:15

US wants to get this deal done before that. Those

34:18

are exactly the pieces, Jonathan. You've

34:20

got a two-phase negotiation that's being

34:22

discussed, a hostage for prisoner

34:25

exchange in phase one, then

34:27

a limited but unclear how

34:29

long duration pause. And certainly

34:31

in major military

34:33

operations, possibly a complete

34:35

ceasefire. But yes, the

34:38

Israelis still want to move against

34:40

Rafa, where you have the preponderance

34:42

of Hamas fighters, as well as

34:45

probably half the Gazan population. The

34:47

administration is trying to work this hostage

34:49

for prisoner swap, get a ceasefire. If

34:51

they can, the fallback of the administration

34:53

is saying, okay, we don't particularly want

34:55

you to go into Rafa, but if

34:58

you're going to go in, do it

35:00

in a measured, calibrated way. Use

35:02

force in a much more discriminating

35:04

way than you've used for the

35:06

preponderance of the last six, seven

35:08

months. So there's lots of negotiations

35:10

going on with

35:12

Hamas, with Israel, almost on various contingencies.

35:15

That's where we stand. And my guess

35:17

is this will become clear in the next

35:19

couple of days. Here we are, essentially coming

35:21

up at the seven month point of this.

35:24

But let me say one last thing. However

35:26

this works itself out over the next couple

35:29

of days and weeks, you're still going to

35:31

have some of the same fundamental questions. Who's

35:34

going to govern Gaza? Who's going

35:36

to occupy it? What about the Palestinians

35:39

on the West Bank? Where do we go

35:41

from here? Is there a political dimension to

35:43

Israeli policy? Joe was talking about settlements in

35:45

India. What about settler violence?

35:48

What about Israel's willingness

35:50

to stop expropriating land?

35:52

Are the Palestinians, the Palestinian Authority, willing

35:55

and able to step up to be

35:57

a partner for peace? issues

36:00

are going to come back once we see what happens

36:03

over the next few days. All

36:05

right. Jocelyn Greenback, to close, I

36:07

just want to start where we

36:09

began, which is on the campus of Columbia

36:12

University. You have students, you have outside agitators,

36:14

and you have a lot of

36:16

people who don't know what they're talking about. So

36:18

within the realm of that, what

36:20

should Columbia do? If

36:23

you could tell them right now how to handle this,

36:25

what's the solution? I would

36:28

say President Shafik, like

36:30

listen to the people around you,

36:32

not to the radical fringe. President

36:35

Shafik, number one, none of us support

36:37

the use of excessive force, but

36:39

coordinate with law enforcement and get those

36:42

protesters out of those buildings and retake

36:44

the campus for all your students once

36:46

and for all, number one. Number

36:49

two, no concessions to terrorists. These

36:51

kids are telling you they, quote,

36:54

want to burn Columbia down, like

36:56

Chancellor Diermeier, who Willie mentioned before,

36:59

suspend and expel the kids who

37:01

are trying to destroy the institution.

37:03

And number three, President Shafik, no

37:06

masking on campus. Kids

37:09

who conceal their identities, as Jonathan said,

37:11

many of them are outside agitators, professional

37:14

protesters. They are going in there and

37:16

they are destroying Columbia University for the,

37:18

you know, to the detriment of everyone.

37:20

Your Jewish students need you. All

37:23

your students need you. The broader

37:25

Columbia community needs you. So President

37:27

Shafik, again, get in

37:30

the law enforcement consequences,

37:32

not concessions, and no

37:35

more masking, whether it's KKK or

37:37

Proud Boys or SJP. CEO

37:40

of the Anti-Defamation League, Jonathan Greenblatt. Jonathan, thanks

37:42

for being here this morning. Guys, as we

37:44

head to break here, just a quick statement

37:46

last night from the University of Florida, which

37:49

says it patiently allowed students to protest for

37:51

many days, warn them that eventually they'd

37:53

be trespassing. They arrested a handful of

37:56

students and sent out this statement, quote,

37:58

this is not complicated. The University of

38:00

Florida is not a daycare and we do

38:02

not treat protestors like children. They knew the

38:04

rules, they broke the rules, and now they

38:07

will face the consequences. That's from the University

38:09

of Florida. Makes a

38:11

lot of sense. Still ahead on morning, Joe.

38:13

We'll talk about what to expect when Donald

38:15

Trump's criminal hush money trial resumes in

38:18

a Manhattan courtroom in just a few hours

38:20

from now. Plus, Hunter Biden

38:22

puts Fox News on notice. But

38:25

we're learning about a plan to sue

38:27

the cable network for its coverage of

38:30

the president's son. You're

38:32

watching Morning Joe. We're back in 60

38:34

seconds. Today

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39:44

look at Capitol Hill on a beautiful

39:46

morning in Washington, D.C. It's

39:48

39 past the hour. More than 50

39:51

U.S. mayors are in Washington this week

39:53

to discuss efforts to combat homelessness at

39:55

the federal level. Joining us

39:58

now is Democratic Mayor Karen Bass. of

40:00

Los Angeles. She's the chair of the

40:03

U.S. Conference of Mayors Task Force on

40:05

Homelessness and Republican Mayor

40:07

David Holt of Oklahoma City.

40:10

So Mayor Bass, let me begin with you.

40:12

Thank you all both so much for being

40:15

with us. You know, over the past few

40:17

years, I've spoken with mayors of major cities,

40:19

mainly across the Northeast and some of the

40:21

West Coast, and ask why

40:23

can't you take care of the homelessness

40:25

problem? Why does it keep spreading? They

40:28

always would allude to these lower court

40:30

rulings that didn't give them

40:32

the authority to take care of the

40:34

homeless crisis in their own towns. It

40:36

looks like the Supreme Court is going

40:39

to give that power back to the

40:41

mayors, back to local officials, to

40:43

have a holistic approach the way that

40:46

works best in their own communities. Is

40:48

that good news for you? Well,

40:51

I don't think that it's helpful, frankly. It's

40:54

not just a matter of what tools

40:57

you need to move people off the

40:59

street. It's about getting people housed. And

41:02

so my concern about what the Supreme Court can

41:04

do is that it could essentially

41:06

usher in a wave of people being ticketed

41:08

like they were in the city, $200, $300

41:10

tickets for being on the street. What does

41:15

that solve? We need to get people

41:17

housed off the street, into housing.

41:19

And one thing that we've certainly been

41:21

able to do in L.A. is to

41:24

see people are not refusing to be

41:26

housed. They don't want to

41:28

be on the street. And so I think

41:30

giving cities the power to arrest people or

41:33

to ticket people does not solve the problem. Well,

41:36

it doesn't solve the problem, Mayor Holt, but is

41:38

it at least a good first step for

41:40

you to be able to have more

41:43

control of your situation? Well,

41:45

as a general rule, of course, mayors

41:47

want local control. But as

41:50

Mayor Bass said, I mean, you are not

41:52

going to arrest or incarcerate or ticket your

41:54

way out of a homelessness issue. And that's

41:56

one of the toughest things to accept when

41:58

you deal with this. very intractable problem

42:01

is you've got to bring wraparound services. People

42:03

have come into homelessness a thousand different ways.

42:05

You kind of have to have a thousand

42:07

different options to get them out of

42:09

it. So I would say it's a lot

42:12

more complicated than that because it's easy

42:14

to clear an encampment and move people on,

42:16

but if you're not getting them into housing

42:18

and then getting them the support, the

42:20

job training, the substance abuse, the mental health

42:23

services that they need, they're not

42:25

going to stay off the street. Mayor

42:28

Bass, Los Angeles has

42:30

had a long running problem with homelessness

42:32

and people on the street, it's Skid

42:34

Rowan and elsewhere, so this certainly didn't

42:36

start with your administration, but

42:38

you're in the hot seat now. What

42:41

sort of measurable progress have

42:44

you made, can you make in

42:47

the foreseeable future to get

42:49

people off the street and to get them

42:51

housed? Well first of all

42:53

we absolutely have to have a comprehensive solution

42:55

because we can get people off the street

42:58

and then more come on the street, but

43:00

we have to develop a system of

43:02

long-term interim housing while we are building

43:05

and we're doing exactly that. So I've

43:08

signed executive directives that fast

43:10

track building, you know Los Angeles over

43:13

the years has become extremely expensive to

43:15

live in, so we have to address

43:17

the supply of housing, we have to

43:19

have a place for people to go

43:21

while housing is being built and the

43:24

wraparound services that Mayor Holt talked

43:26

about. If we do not address

43:28

this in a comprehensive manner we're not going

43:30

to succeed and just to be clear in

43:32

Los Angeles we're talking about in the city,

43:34

we're talking about 46,000 people

43:37

who are unhoused and so we can

43:39

make a measurable difference but we have

43:41

to operate from several

43:43

different perspectives and that's why we're here

43:46

in DC right now, we're trying to

43:48

address a problem with veterans being unhoused,

43:50

veterans should not have to choose between

43:52

their benefits and housing, so that's the

43:55

specific issue that over 40 mayors

43:58

are here addressing on the Hill today. Mayor

44:00

Holt, good morning. As you know and you

44:02

mentioned, so much of this gets back to

44:05

mental health and mental illness of people on

44:07

the streets and circumstances that have

44:09

brought him there. So how do you get

44:11

better than we are now at the root

44:13

cause of homelessness or at least one of

44:15

the most prominent? Right.

44:17

And I should give a lot of credit to

44:19

the organization that Mayor Bass and I are part

44:21

of because that's a high point of emphasis this

44:23

year in addition to homelessness is mental health. I

44:25

mean, we just have to invest in

44:28

it at every level. You know, what caused a

44:30

lot of what we see today, it's not the

44:32

only cause, but you know, 50, 60 years ago

44:34

this country made a

44:36

decision for all the right reasons

44:38

to kind of close the institution.

44:41

The problem was that really wasn't replaced

44:43

with anything. And so today the streets

44:45

and our jails and prisons have really

44:48

replaced what was once the mental health

44:50

institutions of this country, local

44:52

level, state level, federal level, everybody's got to

44:54

make new investments in this issue. And you're

44:57

right. I mean, it's not the only thing.

44:59

There's like I said, there's a thousand different

45:01

ways that people enter homelessness, but

45:03

mental health is obviously a major contributor. And

45:05

we as a society just have not invested

45:08

in that enough. We have to do more.

45:10

I appreciate both of your focus on this issue. Mayor

45:13

Bass, before we let you go and ask you

45:15

about the scenes we're seeing and we were just

45:17

discussing at the top of our show at both

45:19

UCLA and USC, these campus protests over the war

45:21

in Gaza, how do you think the schools have

45:23

handled them? Well, I think

45:26

the schools have had both schools have

45:28

handled them the best that they can.

45:30

But I will tell you that right

45:32

now, both USC and UCLA are peaceful.

45:34

I know that the administration is talking

45:36

to the protesters and trying to come

45:38

to a peaceful resolution. So I feel good that

45:40

we will get there. All

45:43

right. Los Angeles mayor Karen Bass

45:46

and Oklahoma city mayor David Holt. Thank you

45:48

both very much for coming on this morning.

45:50

Thank you. Thank you. And coming up, we'll

45:54

go over what to expect later this

45:56

morning when Donald Trump's criminal trial resumes

45:59

in Los Angeles. in Manhattan. Morning

46:01

Joe, we'll be right back. The

46:30

Angie's List you know and trust is now Angie, and

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So remember, Angie's List is now Angie,

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and we're here to get your job

47:01

done right. Get started at

47:03

angie.com. That's A-N-G-I, or

47:05

download the app today. This

47:10

morning, Donald Trump's criminal trial resumed

47:12

in a New York City courtroom.

47:14

Today, banker Gary Farrow is set

47:17

to return to the witness stand

47:19

for more questioning, specifically about

47:22

his handling of Michael Cohen's account at

47:24

the time of the alleged hush

47:27

money payment that was made to

47:29

Stormy Daniels back in 2016. That

47:32

payment was part of an agreement to

47:35

keep Daniels from going public and about

47:37

an alleged fair with Trump. Trump has

47:39

denied any sexual encounter

47:41

with the adult film actress.

47:44

After the payment became

47:47

public, Daniel's lawyer at

47:49

the time, Michael Avenatti,

47:51

provided NBC News with an

47:53

email from an assistant to

47:55

Farrow confirming the transfer. Cohen

47:57

had used his Trump organization

48:00

email address in the communication but

48:02

said at the time company funds

48:05

were not used. Joining

48:07

us now, former U.S. Attorney and

48:09

MSNBC legal analyst Joyce Vance. Joyce,

48:12

what will we be looking for or what

48:14

will you be looking for today in this

48:16

testimony? What connections are they, is the prosecution

48:18

trying to make? Right,

48:22

so the prosecution is at the point

48:24

in this case where they're setting the

48:26

stage for Michael Cohen's testimony still to

48:28

come. Building credibility for

48:30

Cohen, who's going to be a

48:32

very difficult witness by establishing the

48:34

events he will testify to, that

48:37

they occurred, that the banker can

48:39

confirm the nature of payments and

48:42

along those lines. But also the

48:44

government now has to begin proving

48:46

the essentials of its case because

48:48

the core of this indictment are

48:51

the false business records,

48:53

the 11 invoices, the

48:56

12 entries in ledgers and the 11 checks

48:58

and checks stubs that form the core

49:01

of the false financial entries that the

49:03

government has to convince the jury beyond

49:05

a reasonable doubt were made as

49:08

part of a scheme to commit other crimes. And

49:10

so pretty soon we'll see them go through

49:12

the technical process of putting each of

49:15

those items into evidence and in front

49:17

of the jury. So we've

49:19

got a lot more to talk about with this, with

49:21

you Joyce. In just

49:23

a few hours obviously court is going to

49:25

resume. We also want to ask you about

49:28

when the judge is going to rule

49:30

on the gag order situation. So stand

49:32

by if you could. Also coming up

49:35

we're going to talk with Joyce Vance

49:37

about Hunter Biden's possible lawsuit against Fox

49:39

News. We'll be right back. Yeah

49:44

this morning it was 78 in muggy and by this

49:46

afternoon it was 81 in sunny. The

49:49

weather basically went from this to this. 81, 81, 78

49:51

in muggy. Welcome. Back

50:00

we continue our conversation with Joyce Vance about

50:02

the former president Donald Trump's criminal trial taking

50:04

place in New York City It's due to

50:07

start in just a few hours Of course

50:09

The former president has to be there and

50:11

sit through this and right now a banker

50:13

is on the stand and choice

50:16

beyond that We're waiting for word on

50:18

the gag order that the judge put

50:20

in place especially because Donald Trump was

50:22

just spouting off about people and one

50:25

of the reasons for it correct me if I'm wrong is

50:29

For safety for safety of the

50:31

individuals involved with this trial witnesses

50:34

members of the jury whoever And

50:38

I know there still might be another hearing so this is

50:40

the part where I think I'm being an Impatient

50:43

observer but a gag order that's put

50:45

in place for people safety to me

50:47

when it's very clear It was broken.

50:50

I don't understand why it's taking so

50:52

long to rule on it. Can you

50:54

explain? Well,

50:57

I have the same feelings that you do Mika

50:59

as an observer Usually when

51:01

there's a gag order violation you expect

51:03

a judge to act quickly because judges

51:06

have the obligation to protect the integrity

51:09

Of the trial process and a big part of

51:11

that is protecting the safety of jurors and witnesses

51:14

Something that judges take very seriously

51:17

Um We

51:19

don't know for certain why the judge is

51:21

moving so slowly He now has the third

51:24

set of allegations of violations of the gag

51:26

order to consider in yet another

51:28

hearing this week It's

51:30

possible that he may have decided that

51:32

his best way of controlling Donald Trump

51:35

is to hold the threat of Incarceration

51:38

he can put Trump in jail for up to

51:40

30 days for a violation

51:43

And he may believe that by holding that over Trump's

51:45

head for as long as possible He

51:48

ensures continued good behavior. Trump has toned

51:50

it down in about the last week

51:54

Interesting. So far right media

51:56

outlets. Oh an issued a

51:58

retraction and apology to

52:00

former Trump attorney Michael Cohen after

52:03

publishing an article falsely claiming Cohen

52:05

had been having an affair with

52:07

adult film star Stormy Daniels since

52:09

2006 and that he

52:11

cooked up the hush money scheme

52:13

to extort the Trump organization before

52:15

the 2016 election. OAN

52:18

published the story last month

52:20

using a single unverified post

52:23

on the social media site X as

52:26

its source. That post claimed

52:28

Daniels former attorney Michael Avenatti

52:30

was the source for the

52:32

false allegation. Cohen hired a

52:34

defamation attorney who approached OAN

52:36

about the report prompting the

52:38

outlet to actually contact Avenatti

52:40

who denied making the allegations.

52:43

Daniels also denied the claim in a

52:45

post on social media. In

52:48

the settlement with Cohen, no money

52:50

was exchanged but OAN was forced

52:53

to remove the article and issue

52:55

retraction and an apology that reads

52:57

in part quote these statements were

52:59

false. OAN regrets their publication to

53:01

be clear. No evidence suggests that

53:03

Mr. Cohen and Ms. Daniels were

53:05

having an affair and no evidence

53:07

suggests that Mr. Cohen cooked up

53:10

the scheme to extort the Trump

53:12

organization before the 2016 election

53:14

adding OAN apologizes

53:17

to Mr. Cohen for

53:19

any harm the publication

53:21

may have caused. So

53:24

we obviously have the Hunter Biden suing

53:26

Fox possibly story but what do you

53:28

think what do you think about stories

53:31

like this and

53:33

just one example after another

53:35

of lies spread by

53:38

people on the Trump right coming

53:40

back to actually cost them

53:42

money? Yeah I think in this case

53:44

just embarrassment. I just I'm

53:47

confused about Fox News given that they already had

53:49

to pay 787 million

53:52

dollars for lies. They

53:54

still have smartmatic. I don't know why

53:56

they continue to beat the drum on

53:58

Hunter Biden in ways to that

54:00

were potentially irresponsible. It

54:03

appears lawyers for Hunter Biden think so.

54:06

And now they possibly might be moving

54:08

forward with a lawsuit. Along with Joyce

54:10

Vance, we have Claire McCaskill coming up and

54:12

at the top of the hour, Hunter Biden

54:14

is our top story this hour, Willie. Yeah,

54:16

that was a $787 million judgment against

54:20

Fox from Dominion just one year ago.

54:22

And now lawyers for Hunter Biden say

54:24

they are planning to sue Fox News

54:27

imminently over unfounded claims made about Hunter

54:29

Biden on the air. In a letter

54:31

sent to the network last week obtained

54:33

by NBC News, Biden's attorneys notified Fox

54:36

of the impending lawsuit. They

54:38

write it arises from the

54:40

network's quote, subsequent actions to defame

54:42

Mr. Biden. The letter focuses heavily

54:44

on a six-part special that aired

54:47

on Fox's streaming service in 2021.

54:50

In it, the network presented a

54:52

mock trial for what it might look

54:54

like if Hunter Biden were charged with

54:56

being a foreign agent or with bribery,

54:58

neither of which he's been charged with.

55:01

Biden's lawyers also say they plan to

55:03

sue over Fox's decision to show nude

55:05

photos of Hunter on the air, which

55:08

he says were stolen. Fox has

55:10

not responded to a request for comment.

55:12

So what kind of case do you

55:15

see here potentially for Hunter Biden against

55:17

Fox News, Joyce? Well,

55:20

what the core of the charges they're

55:23

alleging would look like would

55:25

be a defamation lawsuit with maybe

55:27

some subsidiary torts like presenting Hunter

55:29

Biden in a false light. You

55:32

know, Willie, we've all watched our

55:34

country be locked in this battle

55:36

with disinformation. And it

55:38

looks increasingly like defamation lawsuits are one

55:40

of the most important tools in the

55:42

arsenal for pushing back. Before

55:45

you can file a lawsuit for defamation

55:48

as a plaintiff, you have to demand a

55:50

retraction. You have to give the

55:52

potential defendant the opportunity to say

55:54

that they were wrong. And so

55:56

Hunter Biden is asking Fox to

55:58

retract. And the question... The question

56:00

is whether Fox will have the

56:02

appetite to fight another lengthy, costly,

56:05

expensive battle. They've already lost, as

56:07

you pointed out, in the Dominion

56:09

voting machine case, and they're facing

56:11

a $2.7 billion lawsuit from Smartmatic

56:14

later this year. You

56:17

know, former U.S. Attorney Joyce Vance, thank

56:20

you so much for your insight this morning. Joining

56:23

us now, MSNBC contributor Mike Barnicle,

56:25

NBC News, and MSNBC political analyst,

56:27

former U.S. Senator Claire McCaskill, she

56:30

and Jen Bonmarie, our co-hosts of

56:32

the MSNBC podcast, How to Win

56:34

2024, and co-founder and CEO of

56:37

Axios, Jim VandeHei, his new book

56:39

entitled Just the Good Stuff is

56:41

out today. We'll get to that

56:44

in just a moment. So on the

56:46

Hunter Biden issue, do you think Fox

56:48

will have, because I think they're demanding

56:51

that Sean Hannity, Jesse Waters,

56:53

Maria Bartiromo, and others apologize?

56:58

Do you think they'll do that, or

57:00

do you think they're going to once

57:02

again go double down and

57:04

possibly face a pretty large verdict because you

57:07

look at what's happened in

57:09

the Republican Committee, and they've just spread

57:11

one lie after another lie after another

57:13

lie about Hunter Biden, and it's blown

57:16

up in their face politically. You know, I think

57:18

that Fox

57:20

lawyers will have to look at

57:22

what exactly they're accusing them of

57:25

and whether it

57:27

merits defamation. And

57:29

also as it pertains to the nude

57:31

photos of Hunter Biden when he was

57:34

going through a drug addiction and

57:36

other very difficult mental

57:38

health challenges in his life, something that

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