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to this morning on Donald Trump's criminal hush

1:00

money trial. What a week, Willie. It

1:02

has been. Stormy Daniels wrapping

1:04

up her second day of testimony

1:06

with a contentious and at times

1:09

bizarre cross-examination from Trump's

1:12

legal team. We'll get expert

1:14

legal analysis on that and

1:16

what we can expect in

1:18

court today, because it's not

1:20

over yet. Plus, we have

1:22

reaction from Capitol Hill to

1:24

President Biden's threat to withhold

1:26

some weapons shipments to Israel

1:29

over its possible invasion of

1:31

Rafa. More Republicans are criticizing

1:33

the president and he's even

1:35

facing backlash from some Democrats.

1:37

And Kevin McCarthy seems to be

1:39

having a hard time coping with the

1:41

fact that Mike Johnson did something he

1:43

could not, which

1:45

is simply hold on to his

1:48

job. We'll show you McCarthy's dig at

1:50

his successor. It seems, I don't know,

1:52

a little not okay,

1:54

Willie. Good morning and welcome to Morning Joe.

1:56

It's Friday, May 10th. With

1:58

us, we have the host of Way

2:00

Too Early White House Bureau Chief at

2:03

Politico, Jonathan LaMere, and former aide to

2:05

the George W. Bush White House and

2:07

State Department, Elise Jordan.

2:10

And Willie, we end this week, I guess

2:12

the way we began it just as, I

2:15

mean, it's a really bad pun, but

2:17

a stormy week in court, truly,

2:20

for the former president. What

2:22

can I say? Yeah, and especially stormy yesterday.

2:25

Stormy Dan was a very combative as she

2:27

was grilled about the details of her story,

2:29

her account of what she says happened in

2:31

2006. A Donald Trump

2:33

hush money criminal trial picks up later

2:36

this morning, a day after Stormy Daniels

2:38

finished taking the stand testifying for more

2:40

than seven hours over a two day

2:42

period. Yesterday, the defense aggressively

2:44

tried to poke holes in Daniels

2:46

credibility, accusing her of extortion, rehearsing

2:49

her testimony, and changing her story

2:51

over the years, all of which

2:53

Daniels denied going toe to toe with the

2:56

defense attorney in several sharp exchanges. At one

2:58

point, Daniel said if she were making up

3:00

her sexual encounter with Trump, she would

3:02

have written a much better story. Also

3:05

during cross examination, Daniels testified she

3:07

never spoke to Trump about the

3:09

$130,000 hush money payments she received

3:12

from former Trump attorney Michael Cohen and

3:15

had no knowledge of whether Trump was

3:17

aware of or involved in that transaction.

3:20

In press, Daniels also noted she

3:22

did not negotiate directly with Cohen

3:24

either, but that her lawyer at

3:27

the time Keith Davidson did. Meanwhile,

3:29

Judge Juan Verchaun for a second

3:31

time denied a request for a

3:33

mistrial from Trump's lawyers. Trump attorney

3:36

Todd Blanche claimed Stormy Daniels testimony

3:38

this week describing her alleged

3:40

sexual encounter with Trump was unfairly prejudicial

3:42

to the former president. But the judge

3:44

ruled Trump's lawyers had opened the door

3:47

to that detailed testimony when they asserted

3:49

in their opening statement no sex

3:51

had occurred, putting the jury

3:53

in the position of choosing who to believe.

3:57

All right, let's bring in former litigator and

3:59

MSNBC legal correspondent Lisa Rubin and the

4:01

MSNBC legal analyst, Danny Savalos. Good morning

4:03

to you both. Lisa, I'll start with

4:05

you. Down at the courthouse again

4:07

yesterday, you were there. Take

4:10

us inside the room because just reading

4:12

through this transcript, watching how combative it

4:14

appeared to be, how Stormy Daniels held

4:16

her own and held her ground as

4:18

defense attorneys, tried again to

4:20

shred her credibility to poke holes in

4:23

her story. What were your

4:25

takeaways yesterday? Stormy

4:27

Daniels is the rare witness who's

4:29

better on cross-examination than she is

4:31

on direct, Willie. She

4:33

really held her ground. That's

4:35

an understatement against some withering

4:38

attack by the defense. But

4:40

one of the things that I think is

4:42

really interesting about yesterday's cross is, as our

4:44

colleague Von Hilliard observed yesterday, what

4:46

they didn't attack her

4:49

for. And really, the core of the

4:51

story about her sexual encounter with Donald

4:53

Trump was not among the things that

4:55

they tried to peel away or

4:57

attack. They asked her, for example,

4:59

for seven pages in the transcript

5:02

to clarify whether they did or

5:04

did not have dinner. They also

5:06

tried to make her say that

5:08

her story about whether she walked

5:10

to dinner was or was not

5:12

inconsistent. But the core of the

5:14

story remained intact. And the most

5:16

that Susan Neckles did would say

5:18

that it was incredulous to her

5:22

that Stormy Daniels, having acted in 150 to 200

5:24

pornography movies,

5:26

would be scared or surprised to come out of

5:29

the bathroom to find Donald Trump on the bed

5:31

for her. And of course, Stormy Daniels had a

5:33

nice retort to that, which is to say, look,

5:35

if it had been my husband, I think my

5:38

husband naked all the time. But to open that

5:40

bathroom door and to find Donald Trump lying on

5:42

the bed for me at 60 years old, more

5:45

than twice my age, and much larger

5:47

than me, yeah, that was surprising to

5:49

me. And so the implication that they

5:52

were trying to make throughout the day

5:54

that because Stormy Daniels has been an

5:56

exotic dancer or an adult film actor,

5:58

that she should have seen. this coming

6:00

and indeed would not have been

6:03

shocked by it, I think fell

6:05

flat during the day. That

6:08

having been said, they

6:10

did poke a little bit, you know,

6:12

here and there at the margins. They

6:14

definitely exposed some inconsistencies. But we're also

6:17

talking about a story that happened 18

6:20

years ago. And as a

6:22

witness, processes the story over time as

6:24

we change culturally, too. It's also of

6:26

no surprise to me that maybe the

6:28

Stormy Daniels in 2024 processing

6:30

what happened in 2006, sees those events

6:33

differently. It's really impossible to put yourself

6:35

back in the position that you would

6:37

have been even in fall of 2016

6:41

in telling that story, Willie. So

6:44

Danny, seven and a half hours or so

6:46

of testimony from Stormy Daniels over a couple

6:48

of days, truly, you just have to stop

6:50

and consider the surreal

6:52

historic nature of it, a

6:55

former porn actor sitting across from a former

6:57

president of the United States making these accusations

6:59

at him while he's in the middle of

7:01

a presidential campaign, by the way. But from

7:03

your point of view, from where you're sitting

7:06

at the end of the day, what kind of witness

7:08

was Stormy Daniels for the prosecution? Unnecessary.

7:11

Stormy Daniels, in my view, represents

7:13

an unnecessary risk for the prosecution.

7:16

Here's why. I can't think of any

7:18

piece of evidence that they got from

7:20

Stormy Daniels on the prosecution that they

7:23

couldn't have gotten or didn't already get

7:25

from other witnesses. The transaction from Cohen

7:27

to Daniels was established through other witnesses,

7:29

including Keith Davidson, her former lawyer. To

7:32

the extent that the value of her

7:34

story increased as the election approached, we've

7:36

already heard that evidence from other witnesses.

7:38

So you may say, well, look, Stormy

7:41

Daniels was about context. And that's true.

7:44

But when you think about

7:46

all the other witnesses, Madeline Westerhout, the

7:48

Hope Hicks, people with really unimpeachable credibility,

7:50

if you could get that evidence from

7:53

them, why risk Stormy Daniels? Because you

7:55

saw in Stormy Daniels a request for

7:57

a mistrial, which was going to be

8:00

denied. But in my view, the very

8:02

first major appealable issue that you might

8:04

see up at the appellate division. So

8:07

if the prosecution gets a conviction and

8:09

this case comes back in two years

8:12

and it's overturned the conviction, then the

8:14

prosecution is going to ask themselves, was

8:16

it worth the risk if the reason

8:18

that the convictions overturned is testimony that

8:20

was given by Stormy Daniels, especially if

8:23

they could have gotten that information from

8:25

somewhere else. And I'll just say, look,

8:27

I'm in the minority. I don't think

8:29

Stormy Daniels performed particularly well on cross-examination.

8:32

Witnesses, she's one of those witnesses that just decided,

8:34

I am not going to give a yes or

8:36

no answer because I know that's what the

8:39

cross-examining attorney wants. She fought back at

8:41

every turn. And yes, to some extent,

8:43

did she zing Donald Trump and the

8:45

cross-examining attorney Susan Nichols? Yes.

8:47

But at the same time, witnesses who

8:49

refused to answer yes or no, refused

8:51

to give an inch. Sometimes juries see

8:53

them as concealing things. And that's what

8:55

Stormy Daniels did. It may have played

8:57

well with the jury. It might not

8:59

have as well. Danny,

9:02

just, OK, so I want to just try

9:04

and push back on this because I'm curious

9:07

what you think of the fact that it

9:09

would be obvious that the

9:11

defense would try and undermine her

9:13

credibility, really try and

9:17

put a frame around the incredulousness

9:20

of her story. And who else

9:23

would have the information like what

9:25

was in his toiletry kit or

9:27

other things that would prove that

9:29

there was a transaction for

9:32

sex? I mean, how

9:34

else would they do that? Are you saying

9:36

there was a different route they could take?

9:38

Because she's the one with that information that

9:40

ultimately makes that connection. No,

9:42

we're actually mostly on the same page. I

9:45

mean, the point to be made is that

9:47

the testimony could have simply been, we had

9:49

sex. And I've heard that argument. It's a

9:51

fair argument that all those details are important

9:53

to establish that this happened. And Judge Marchant

9:55

did point out that in their opening, the

9:57

defense said, they didn't have to say this,

9:59

that There was no sex. So

10:01

arguably they opened the door to

10:03

those details. But again, the

10:06

proof is really in the fact that this

10:08

is the first request for a mistrial. And

10:11

the point, Judge Mershan himself said, we got

10:13

into detail that we didn't need to get

10:15

into, but you defense, you weren't objecting, so

10:17

I don't know what was going on there.

10:20

So it's really not even me. It's Judge

10:22

Mershan himself expressed doubt. It's very rare for

10:24

a judge, sua sponte, on his own to

10:26

say, hey, you know what, some of that

10:29

testimony, it wasn't so, it went a little

10:31

too far. So if Judge Mershan is

10:33

saying that, they have it now on the record,

10:35

and you better believe when they take that to

10:37

the appellate division, they're going to take that little

10:39

portion of the transcript and put it right in

10:41

front of the judges and make their argument. So

10:43

again, I just go back to the fact that,

10:45

yes, you can say that the detail helped with

10:47

the context. Yes, he used old spice. And yes,

10:49

he had the satin pajamas. And that

10:52

helps show that she's credible. But

10:54

the defense correctly pointed out, this is not

10:56

a sexual assault case. This is a false

10:58

entries in business records, and then maybe some

11:00

other crime that we're not entirely sure what it

11:02

is that was being concealed yet. I'm sure we'll

11:05

find out at some point. But it's not a

11:07

sex assault case. And that's the defense's argument. And

11:10

even Justice Mershan acknowledged that they

11:12

may have a point, not enough for a mistrial,

11:14

but there's a point to be made there. Right.

11:17

The judge rejected their request for a mistrial, also

11:19

rejected their efforts, Trump's attorney's efforts to loosen

11:21

the gag order that he could go after

11:23

Stormy Daniels because she's no longer a witness.

11:26

But he said, look, that could be a chilling effect for other witnesses. So

11:29

he kept it in place. So Lisa, two for you. One would be, do

11:31

you agree this that Stormy Daniels was an

11:33

unnecessary risk? Tell us what you think, whether they should

11:35

have called her or not. And then talk to us

11:37

a little bit about who else we heard from yesterday,

11:39

including Madeline Westerhout, who is known as Trump's gatekeeper in

11:41

the West Wing. Let's start with whether

11:43

I agree with Danny. I actually do agree

11:46

with Danny that she was an unnecessary witness.

11:48

That having been said, I also think that

11:50

when you're thinking about this case writ large,

11:53

there's sort of two parts to it, right?

11:55

There is the falsification of business records and

11:57

there's the underlying crime that Donald Trump has

11:59

allowed. allegedly trying to conceal. And the

12:01

prosecution has made clear at this point

12:04

that that's a conspiracy to promote his

12:06

own election through unlawful means. On

12:08

the back end, the evidence of Trump's own

12:10

involvement is less direct than it is on

12:13

the front end. You've got a lot of

12:15

people talking about his involvement in the conspiracy.

12:18

Very few who can talk about his

12:20

direct participation and the coverup of that

12:22

crime, Michael Cohen really being the only

12:24

one who will come to trial and

12:26

say that. So you've got to compensate

12:28

somehow by showing that he had

12:31

a motive to do it. And that plus

12:33

the circumstantial evidence of his involvement to take

12:35

you over the line. I would guess that

12:37

what the prosecution is trying to do with

12:39

Stormy Daniels here is show because her

12:41

story was so credible, because she remembers

12:43

all these messy details, he absolutely had

12:46

the motive to work with Michael Cohen

12:48

and David Packer to ensure her story

12:50

never saw the light of day and

12:52

thereafter cover that up through the business

12:54

records falsification that we've seen the direct

12:57

evidence of. In terms of

12:59

Madeleine Westerhout, she was in many respects

13:01

a mixed bag because she was a

13:03

terrific character witness for Donald Trump, a

13:05

man she really loves and to whom

13:07

she feels a great amount of gratitude.

13:09

She could not have been more effusive

13:11

in her praise for him as a

13:13

great boss, as a family man. On

13:16

the other hand, she is the connective

13:18

tissue and the falsification loop. She

13:20

is the person who at the White House

13:23

presented him with the checks to sign. She

13:26

said he read everything before he signed

13:28

it. And then she was presented with

13:30

some evidence showing how careful Trump was

13:32

about his money, including an email with

13:34

Ronograph about whether or not Donald Trump

13:36

wanted to buy a $650 Tiffany frame

13:39

to put a picture of his mother in

13:41

to sit in the Oval Office. And Ronograph

13:43

sort of doubting, well, you should ask him

13:46

whether he wants to buy this. This is

13:48

kind of pricey. The implication is this is

13:50

a person who is a micromanageal, be tight-fisted,

13:52

and the fact that he signed

13:54

nine checks repeatedly for $35,000, this

13:57

is a man who knew what he

13:59

was doing wanted to do it. Okay,

14:01

so Stormy Daniels, a mixed

14:04

bag as to what the prosecution got

14:06

out of it. The next big event

14:08

will be Michael Cohen. How soon do

14:10

you predict that he's going to go

14:12

on the stand and what are the

14:14

risks and the rewards of having him

14:16

come and testify? You want to take

14:18

this one? Oh, I think you're better at

14:20

predicting. Sure. I

14:22

think at this point, Elise, we've seen a

14:25

lot of the witnesses that we expect.

14:27

So just looking at a countdown list,

14:29

who's left? There aren't that many people

14:32

left to hear from. So I would

14:34

expect we'll hear from Michael Cohen relatively

14:36

soon, perhaps as soon as next week.

14:38

In terms of what they hope to

14:40

get from him, Michael Cohen is the

14:42

one witness who sees the story through

14:44

from start to finish from the very

14:47

formation of the conspiracy and August of

14:49

2017 to the very end of the

14:51

repayment scheme in December of 2017. So they need

14:55

Michael Cohen to thread it all together.

14:57

That having been said, think about Michael

15:00

Cohen sort of as an earthquake damaged

15:02

building around which the DA has built

15:04

a lot of scaffolding in the form

15:06

of documentary evidence. We've seen texts, we've

15:08

seen emails, we've seen bank statements, we've

15:10

seen general ledger entries. We have seen

15:13

so much evidence,

15:15

including exits from three books that

15:17

Trump wrote to show his modus

15:19

operandi, right? Like attack, attack, attack,

15:21

never trust anyone, manage your own money,

15:23

all of those things in Trump's own words,

15:26

devastating. And I predict today or as

15:28

soon as today we will see what

15:30

is, I think, the best evidence of

15:32

all. Three tweets from May

15:35

of 2018 where Donald Trump essentially confesses

15:37

to the business records crime by saying,

15:39

yeah, I repaid Michael Cohen and there's

15:41

nothing wrong with that. That will be

15:43

devastating in and of itself. That said,

15:46

Michael Cohen is the narrator. Count on

15:48

him to come in and almost be

15:50

like a summary witness. All the

15:52

things that you just heard, I'm going to string together for

15:54

you. So, Danny, let's take the other side of this,

15:56

though. Where are the problems with Michael Cohen? Michael Cohen

15:59

is a huge. problems and I predict that

16:01

all the pushback you heard from Stormy Daniels

16:03

the inability answer a question yes or no

16:05

and to Instead try to fight on every

16:07

single leading question. You're gonna see that doubly

16:09

with Michael Cohen He used to be a

16:12

lawyer presumably understands what leading questions are. He's

16:14

gonna want to fight back This is his

16:16

moment in the Sun just like it was

16:18

for Stormy Daniels is a good opportunity For

16:21

him to be in the spotlight which

16:23

he enjoys So I expect

16:26

that he is going to fight tooth

16:28

and nail on cross examination which by

16:30

the way Doesn't always work when

16:32

you fight with a cross examining attorney.

16:34

Maybe it's great for headlines maybe it's

16:36

you know, we perceive it outside the

16:38

courthouse as Taking

16:40

a swing at the defense but in

16:43

court it doesn't always play that well in terms of

16:45

timing I actually think we'll see Michael Cohen sooner than

16:47

later one of the things I feel just thinking about

16:49

this as a defense attorney That I

16:51

think the prosecution has done very well It's moved

16:53

very quickly and I can tell you that when

16:56

you're a defense counsel that is disorienting Especially when

16:58

in this case you don't have a solid witness

17:00

list and you don't know who's next it can

17:02

really throw you off There if you the prosecution

17:04

moves quickly and up you can be left saying

17:06

wait. Oh, I wasn't ready for oh my gosh

17:08

I didn't ask all the questions. I wanted to

17:10

ask I I wasn't ready for that witness and

17:12

it can turn it can create chaos at The

17:15

defense table, so I think that's something they've done

17:17

strategically I don't know if it's intentional but it

17:19

certainly feels that way by being efficient you keep

17:21

the defense on their heels And I

17:23

think that may be what's going on here Yeah,

17:26

I'll just say as a as a watcher.

17:28

It was disoriented. It was like wow. Wow.

17:31

Look at they just keep bringing them in

17:33

so Lisa

17:35

I'll I'll ask you this and

17:37

I'm wondering if it backs up

17:39

Danny's point about stormy There was

17:42

word yesterday that Karen McDougal would

17:44

not be brought to the stand

17:46

is that related at all to? Stormy's

17:49

very no, okay, and

17:51

then talk about the speed of this trial

17:53

Yeah, and the reason Kevin Google isn't coming

17:55

in is because she really is unnecessary Karen

17:58

McDougal is part of the but

18:00

when we're talking about the falsification of

18:02

business records, the Karen McDougal payment has

18:04

nothing to do with that. The falsification

18:06

of business records is about the repayment

18:09

to Michael Cohen of the money for

18:11

the Stormy Daniels settlement and then some.

18:13

Karen McDougal was paid by American Media.

18:15

There's nothing that she has to do

18:17

with that back half of the case

18:19

that forms the crime. All

18:24

right, MSNBC legal correspondent, Lije Serubin

18:26

and MSNBC legal analyst, Danny Sivalo.

18:28

Thank you both very

18:30

much. What a week it

18:32

was and it continues next.

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Today and every day Planned Parenthood is

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19:39

lawmakers are criticizing President Biden's

19:41

threat to withhold weapons

19:43

shipments to Israel. In an interview

19:45

on CNN Wednesday, the president said

19:48

he would not give the

19:51

IDF bombs and artillery shells

19:53

if Israel invades Rafa, a

19:56

southern Gaza city where more than

19:58

a million people have sought refuge.

20:00

Now some House Republicans are

20:03

trying to prevent any delays in

20:05

arms shipments. One Texas congresswoman

20:07

introduced a bill that would force

20:10

the White House delivery to deliver

20:12

any aid passed by Congress. Another

20:14

House lawmaker is preparing articles of

20:16

impeachment against Biden, charging the president

20:18

with abuse of power. Meanwhile,

20:21

in the upper chamber, Senate

20:23

Republicans voiced their frustration, saying

20:25

the president's decision to

20:27

delay arms to Israel undercuts

20:29

the $95 billion foreign aid

20:32

package Congress approved last

20:34

month. I

20:36

fought for months to secure passage

20:39

of the national security supplemental to

20:41

support Israel, Ukraine, and vulnerable Asian

20:44

partners and to

20:46

make important investments in our own military.

20:50

I stood up to the opposition and my own party

20:52

to do the

20:54

right thing. If the

20:56

commander in chief can't muster the political courage

20:58

to stand up to the radicals on his

21:01

left flank and stand up

21:03

for an ally at war, the

21:06

consequences will

21:08

be grave. This

21:10

is insane what is being suggested

21:12

by this administration after the Congress

21:15

in huge bipartisan fashion supported

21:17

over $14 billion to go

21:20

to aid Israel. This

21:22

administration would decide unilaterally

21:26

without any input from Congress or anybody else

21:29

that because they don't like the way that Israel

21:31

is defending itself against this threat, that

21:33

somehow they're going to start cutting off the

21:35

very assistance that the United States Congress said

21:38

that we want sent to Israel to our

21:40

ally to make sure that they're able to

21:42

defend themselves and to root out this

21:45

terrorist organization operating on their

21:47

border. What

21:50

you're doing is you're saying Hamas

21:52

has put Palestinians in the

21:54

crosshairs of Israel so stand

21:56

Israel down? That's the dumbest

21:58

thing I've ever heard. in my friggin

22:00

life is that you tell the person who's

22:03

about to be wiped off the map, you

22:05

got to slow down because your enemy

22:07

is making it hard on the Palestinian

22:09

people to survive because they choose

22:11

to put them in arms away. That

22:13

is ass backwards. Joining

22:17

us now NBC News Capitol Hill correspondent

22:19

Julie Serkin. Julie, good morning. We'll make

22:21

the point again this morning that we

22:23

made yesterday. You can debate the merits

22:25

of this policy from President Biden, but

22:28

these are the very Republicans who held

22:30

up aid to Israel and Ukraine for

22:32

months and months and months before finally

22:34

getting to that 14 billion dollar number

22:36

last month. So Julie though let's talk

22:38

about how this is playing on Capitol

22:40

Hill because it's actually not just Republicans

22:42

opposed to this idea. We're hearing from

22:44

some Democrats, Senator John Federman, Richie Torres,

22:46

the congressman from New York who's been

22:48

very pro-Israel blasting this as well. How's

22:51

it playing on the Hill overall? Yeah

22:53

and I've heard from Jewish Democrats who have

22:55

told me privately yesterday that they are appalled

22:58

by Biden's decision to review

23:00

these weapons, but you're also hearing

23:02

from Democrats like Senator Tim Kaine,

23:04

others who have been urging restraint

23:06

on Israel's part. Very careful

23:08

to underscore that the Biden administration is

23:10

quote reviewing the weapons transfer, not necessarily

23:12

stopping it or halting it. They say

23:14

this language is important. Of course though,

23:16

Biden's comments speak for themselves. That press

23:19

conference that you played a little bit

23:21

a part of from Senator Lindsey Graham,

23:23

from Senator Cotton, Senator Cruz. Senator Cotton

23:25

by the way also saying that this

23:27

warrants impeachment for Biden, sort of trying

23:29

to say that because Democrats

23:32

wanted to impeach, former President Trump wanted

23:34

to try him on that because of

23:36

his conversation, his phone call with Ukraine's

23:38

president back then for his reelection efforts,

23:40

they say that this warrants impeachment for

23:42

Biden too, trying to draw a parallel

23:45

there. But this also comes down to

23:47

the report that we are all anxiously

23:49

awaiting, that Congress is awaiting. I talked

23:51

to sources who say they could potentially

23:53

expect that report from Blinken, the secretary of

23:56

state today. Remember that is a clause that

23:58

Biden himself had pushed for. couple of

24:00

months ago at the behest of Democrats

24:02

who wanted him to do so for

24:04

Israel to vow that they are abiding

24:07

by international law, by humanitarian law, to

24:09

make sure that they are preserving

24:11

as many lives as possible in order

24:13

to get American weapons. This is a

24:15

report that Congress is waiting on potentially

24:18

today. We'll see what's inside

24:20

there. But certainly this is a moment for

24:22

Biden as he tries to toe the line

24:24

between supporting Israel, between trying to appease his

24:26

base, and many of whom have been demonstrating

24:29

on college campuses across the country

24:31

the last few weeks. And this has become

24:33

a partisan political issue that hostage families have

24:35

told me when I talked to them a

24:37

couple of weeks ago is not helpful, Willie.

24:41

And Jonathan Lemire, this hasn't changed Prime Minister

24:43

Netanyahu's view of things very much. He said

24:45

yesterday, we hope we can resolve our differences

24:48

with President Biden, but even if we don't,

24:50

we're going ahead, even if we are alone.

24:52

So we will just say one more time

24:54

here that those Republicans that you heard railing

24:56

yesterday, that foreign aid package that was supposed

24:58

to give money to Israel and Ukraine much

25:00

needed over many months was held up because

25:03

they said they wanted to see action on

25:05

the U.S. border first. That legislation,

25:07

of course, had been taken care

25:09

of in the Senate, but they turned their back

25:11

on it there, that bipartisan legislation. But let's talk

25:13

about the White House you cover every day and

25:16

President Biden, what kind of a

25:18

pickle he is in here trying,

25:20

as Julie said, to appease his

25:22

progressive base who supports Gaza,

25:24

who doesn't like the way Israel is

25:26

prosecuting this war and maintaining this relationship

25:29

with Israel. Yeah, a few things,

25:31

Willie. First of all, it's a bad faith comparison,

25:34

what Republicans are doing, saying this is akin to

25:36

what Trump did with Zelensky, trying to extort Zelensky

25:39

to have an investigation into the Bidens or

25:41

he'd withhold arms. The U.S. continues to send

25:43

weapons to Israel, defensive weapons.

25:46

They're just saying we're not going to give

25:48

you things for this particular operation in Raffa.

25:52

We also, I have some new reporting on this,

25:54

the administration. This was not a spur of the

25:56

decision. This was not a senior moment, as Speaker

25:59

Johnson put it. This has been in the works

26:01

for weeks. The U.S. has been telegraphing to Israel.

26:03

We don't want you to have an all-out

26:05

invasion of Rafah. Yes, the blowback from Israel

26:07

has been fierce. We just had a member

26:09

of the Knesset join us on way too

26:12

early. He called it deeply disappointing. He hopes

26:14

that the president will change his mind, but

26:16

they're not going to. In fact, National Security

26:18

top spokes in John Kirby say yesterday he

26:20

thinks that an all-out invasion of Rafah would

26:22

actually help Hamas's standing at the bargaining table

26:24

and hurt Israel. So Julie, the

26:26

president is a tough line

26:30

for him here. They know that. The Republicans

26:32

have been hitting him, some Democrats as

26:34

well, including Senator Fetterman and a few

26:36

others, Congressman Moskowitz and the

26:39

like. But Democrats you talk to on

26:41

the Hill who do have an eye on November,

26:43

who do see these campus protests. And like the

26:45

White House says, this is a decision made for

26:47

national security purposes, not political ones. But

26:49

there's going to be a political fallout. What's their perception as

26:51

to what that fallout will be? Absolutely.

26:54

And I'll just take this one step further, Jonathan.

26:56

These Democrats not only are seeing these protests

26:59

play out, these protesters are coming to their

27:01

homes. They see them outside the Senate constantly,

27:03

outside of their offices. This is something that

27:05

is affecting them too. So while Biden is,

27:08

of course, at the top of the ticket,

27:10

many of them are also up for reelection.

27:12

Chris Van Hollen, for example, over in Maryland,

27:14

he led the charge on sort of trying

27:17

to force Israel to abide by international

27:19

law by giving this pledge before Biden

27:21

had put that push that provision in

27:23

place a couple of months ago to force that

27:25

very thing to happen. And

27:27

certainly Democrats are concerned about November. I

27:29

talked to a number of voters, completely

27:32

unrelated, covering the Maryland primary yesterday, who

27:34

told me even in that case, where

27:36

you're not seeing as many college protests,

27:38

although they are still happening, the University

27:40

of Maryland, John Hopkins, for example, who

27:42

told me they voted uncommitted, they checked

27:44

uncommitted during their primary ballots for Biden,

27:46

just to send him a warning, a

27:48

message on this issue. So this is

27:50

something that's spreading far and wide

27:52

beyond Michigan, where you have a large

27:55

population of Arab and Muslim Americans. This

27:57

is spreading to other communities as well.

28:00

who view what is happening in Gaza, as

28:02

President Biden has said himself the other night

28:04

during his interview, that these are American weapons

28:07

and bombs that are aiding in some of

28:09

the civilian deaths as unintentional or intentional as

28:11

they may be, of course. But

28:13

this is something that Democrats are paying very close

28:16

attention to. You have some outliers, of course, in

28:18

the likes of Senator Fenderman and others who think

28:20

Israel is doing all they can while Hamas is

28:22

using civilians as human shields. But

28:25

certainly this is a situation that is

28:27

a very politically tough dance for

28:29

Biden, and he is trying to do it.

28:31

We'll see if he can do it

28:33

well and survive in November, but he's not gonna please anyone

28:35

no matter what he does here. That

28:38

is for sure very difficult. Other

28:40

politics to talk about former House

28:42

Speaker Kevin McCarthy is criticizing

28:44

his successor, Mike Johnson, after Democrats

28:46

this week helped save Johnson from

28:49

being ousted from his speakership. Take

28:52

a look at what he said on Politico's

28:54

Power Play podcast yesterday. I

28:57

couldn't live with myself if I did a

28:59

deal with the Democrats. If you can't sustain

29:01

being speaker by your own majority, should you

29:03

sustain it? Then my question,

29:05

no. So either I'm gonna win speaker

29:07

and be the leader with the majority,

29:09

otherwise it's not right to be the

29:12

speaker. Wow,

29:14

there's so much there, Julie. I

29:17

keep thinking of the Selena plot story that

29:20

she did on Mike Johnson in the Atlantic where

29:23

the sub-headline is, could he actually

29:25

be good at this job or something like that? He

29:28

is working on a

29:30

bipartisan level in some cases and

29:34

in many ways pushing the extreme into

29:36

the corner a little bit so that he

29:38

can not only keep his job, but get

29:40

something done on Capitol Hill. What am I

29:42

missing? No, you're missing

29:44

absolutely nothing, Mika. In fact, back in

29:46

February, even January, if you told anyone,

29:48

Republicans, Democrats on Capitol Hill that Mike

29:51

Johnson would be able to fund the

29:53

government to send aid to Ukraine, to

29:55

do everything he has on a bipartisan

29:57

basis in the last couple of months

29:59

without the border. should I add, that

30:01

was such a red line for Republicans, and

30:03

still keep his job. I don't think anyone

30:05

would have believed you. And

30:07

more than that, McCarthy's comments I find

30:09

kind of rich, because when he was

30:11

going through this, when he was ousted,

30:13

he wanted Democrats to at least vote

30:15

president to at least save him in

30:18

some manner. He tried to have them

30:20

do that. In fact, he said after

30:22

the fact that he was appalled that

30:24

Nancy Pelosi, for example, turned her

30:27

back, that she promised him back

30:29

in January of 2023 that

30:31

Democrats would help him out

30:34

if these conservative hardliners moved to oust

30:36

him. So he wanted exactly what Mike Johnson

30:38

got. He just didn't get it, because

30:40

in my conversations with Democrats, they didn't trust

30:43

McCarthy like they trust Johnson. They say

30:45

Johnson is somebody they've been able to

30:47

work with, they've been able to hammer out

30:49

certain differences with. Certainly there are a

30:51

lot of differences. There's no doubt about it.

30:54

But they definitely didn't trust McCarthy and Seem in

30:56

the same light as they see Johnson. And so

30:58

I think that is a very important distinction.

31:01

Obviously, McCarthy is out of the speakership. He's

31:03

out of Congress, but he might still have

31:05

some bad blood for the eight who ousted

31:07

him and Democrats who didn't help him out

31:09

at all. Absolutely.

31:12

NBC's Julie Serkin, thank you

31:14

so much for your reporting

31:16

on Inside This Morning. Russia unleashed

31:18

a massive wave of missile and

31:20

drone attacks across Ukraine on Wednesday,

31:22

targeting the country's energy infrastructure in

31:24

a bid to knock out electricity

31:27

in several cities. The Institute

31:29

for the Study of War, a Washington-based

31:31

think tank, says this is the fifth

31:33

time in less than two months Russia

31:36

has launched a wide-scale attack targeting Ukraine's

31:38

power grid. Joining us

31:40

now from Ukraine is journalist Ilya Padmorenko.

31:42

He's a former defense and security reporter

31:44

at The Kyiv Post and a co-founder

31:46

of The Kyiv Independent. He has covered

31:49

the war in Ukraine since its beginning and is the

31:51

author of the new book out now

31:53

titled I Will Show You How

31:55

It Was, The Story of Wartime Kyiv. Ilya,

31:57

thank you so much for being with us.

31:59

with us this morning, we appreciate it. Something

32:02

in your book really stood out and struck

32:04

me where you said Ukraine

32:07

has been fundamentally changed over

32:10

the last decade, but particularly over the

32:12

last couple of years of this full

32:14

scale invasion of Russia, the civilian casualties

32:16

we've seen, just even in

32:18

the last couple of days, again, attacking

32:21

the energy infrastructure in major

32:23

Ukrainian cities. How do you

32:25

describe that change you've seen in yourself,

32:27

perhaps, and in the people of Ukraine?

32:31

It is absolutely true, and I keep telling

32:33

this anywhere I go,

32:36

that Ukraine from, let's say, 2014

32:38

and Ukraine right now,

32:43

or Ukraine from 2019 and Ukraine right

32:45

now in 2024, absolutely

32:49

different countries. In so

32:51

many regards, culturally, we have become

32:53

a nation of our

32:55

own, which is very separated

32:58

from the cultural field of Russia, for instance.

33:00

It's a nation in which

33:04

people from east or from the

33:06

west finally have a

33:08

big story of the

33:11

common legacy, of the common heritage, the

33:13

big grief that unites them, truly unites

33:15

them. It's not

33:17

that we are that different. Ukraine

33:20

is from the east or from the west,

33:22

but right now, our generation has this big

33:24

story of war, of common struggle, of

33:26

a common loss, of something

33:28

that unites us for the sake of

33:31

saving our common home. Ukraine

33:34

is absolutely different in terms of

33:36

its political life. It's absolutely different

33:39

from what it used to be,

33:41

like that copy of Russia in

33:43

terms of an unfree

33:46

political system, the lack

33:48

of free speech, the lack of activity from

33:50

inside the society, the

33:52

lack of initiative from the society. I'm

33:54

not saying the Ukrainian system is ideal

33:56

now, but at the same time, there

33:59

has been. understand them and

34:01

sentiment of Ukrainian

34:03

people taking its

34:06

destiny in its hands and

34:09

dictating authorities, taking

34:11

charge of many things that

34:13

happen in Ukraine, opposing negative

34:15

sentences in this country, corruption,

34:18

abuse of power, illegal

34:21

activities in illegal aspects

34:24

of this country. So

34:27

this is so different, but the biggest

34:30

difference is of course this sense of

34:32

unity and sense of becoming a nation,

34:34

a nation that wants to be independent,

34:37

that appreciates to be independent, that has

34:39

produced a lot of cultural, civilizational things

34:42

for its own, that

34:44

is exclusively Ukrainian, and that is

34:47

understood by Ukrainians. So

34:50

in many ways we are, we have

34:53

become the nation, which nation in

34:55

so many aspects amid

34:57

the decades of this war, and especially

34:59

this great loss and great grief of

35:02

full-scale Russian invasion is of

35:04

course a united sector. Ukrainians are now

35:06

united as never before, and they are

35:09

a nation as unique

35:11

as never before. Yeah,

35:13

as you're speaking we're looking at some images

35:16

from Friday and Har Ki, we were looking

35:18

at before images from Ki from two years

35:20

ago, but as you write in

35:22

the book, the wartime story of Kiv

35:24

is an ongoing one, this is something

35:26

that you all live with every single

35:29

day. We for two and a

35:31

half years now have lauded almost every day

35:33

on this show and across our country the

35:35

bravery, the courage, the will, the fighting spirit

35:38

that the Ukrainian people have shown, but my

35:41

gosh it has to be difficult every single

35:43

day living in Kiv even

35:45

still. So what is it like on

35:47

a granular level for a family or

35:49

for working people just to go through

35:51

the day under the threat of attack?

35:55

You know, an important part of human

35:57

nature is that humans get adept to

36:00

pretty much anything in if they have

36:02

to, especially if they

36:04

feel motivated. And if they

36:07

are pretty effective at, you know,

36:09

countering what's coming against them, such

36:12

as this war, you know, people have adapted,

36:15

we have adapted to so many

36:18

things that have changed our

36:20

daily lives, such as power outages, missile

36:23

attacks, shelling. And

36:25

I'm talking about more or less

36:27

peaceful cities like Kia, for instance,

36:30

who that are more or

36:32

less will protect us. People

36:34

do adapt to things. For instance, if

36:36

we lack electricity, and that was especially

36:38

true in the first winter

36:40

of the invasion with massive blackouts and

36:43

power outages, we have

36:45

our means to have our technical things

36:47

like energy

36:49

basavers, energy batteries that are so

36:51

widespread right now, power generators too.

36:54

When it comes to usual

36:58

things like security, people

37:00

adapt to this by trying to

37:02

combine security measures

37:04

with usual business and

37:07

life activities, such as restaurants

37:10

or pubs, okay, face, working

37:12

in basement venues,

37:15

so that you can provide

37:17

security for your customers and

37:19

also keep making money can

37:21

provide jobs and making make

37:23

paying taxes. These are

37:26

so many things that people have to adapt. One

37:29

of the most important things is

37:31

that this war has become part

37:33

of harsh reality. But at

37:35

the same time, it's also filled with a lot of

37:37

things that inspire people, upset

37:41

people. But in general, the

37:43

system works, people keep finding

37:46

their ways for normal life. In

37:48

many ways, thanks to the exceptional

37:51

valor of the Ukrainian military and

37:53

the assistance from

37:55

outside Ukraine, we have a pretty

37:57

peaceful life and most of the territory

37:59

of Ukraine, such as Kiev,

38:01

for instance, oil beef. And thanks to this,

38:03

many people have this

38:05

ability to go on with their

38:08

lives, to do their

38:10

work, you know, pay taxes

38:12

and keep the country afloat

38:14

and avoid the societal collapse

38:16

that would greatly facilitate Russia's

38:18

war against this country. People adapt

38:20

to things. When it comes

38:22

to psychology and mental

38:26

effects on this, of course, this

38:28

is especially hard for right now for

38:30

places like Kharkiv. Kharkiv is really having

38:32

a bad time right now. The Russians

38:35

have concentrated strikes on this particular city.

38:37

But at the same time, we have

38:39

a lot of voices from Kharkiv, for

38:41

instance, saying that, yeah, things are pretty

38:44

bad. We have little electricity, but still,

38:46

we do not want to leave. We

38:48

are here to stay deeply motivated. The

38:53

excerpt that appears in the Atlantic of this book

38:55

is titled Ukraine Has Changed Too Much to Compromise

38:57

with Russia Now. And the new book is titled

38:59

I Will Show You How It Was, The Story

39:01

of Wartime Kiev. Ilya Ponomarenko, thank you so much

39:03

for sharing this story. Thank you for your ongoing

39:08

courage in covering it and for the

39:10

bravery of the Ukrainian people. The UN

39:12

Refugee Agency or UNHCR responds to emergencies

39:14

and provides long term solutions for

39:18

refugees. They provide aid in over 130 countries, including

39:20

Ukraine, Syria, Afghanistan, and

39:25

Sudan, where people are forced to flee from war and

39:27

persecution at their greatest moment of need.

39:30

UNHCR helps and protects refugees by providing food,

39:32

shelter, medical care, and other life-saving

39:36

essentials. The agency jumpstarts relief in three

39:38

key ways. They transport core relief

39:41

items stored in even the most remote areas of the world.

39:43

They deploy ex-sensory staff

39:46

trained to help in crisis situations. And they

39:49

transfer funds directly to support the emergency.

39:53

Because of generous supporters and donors,

39:55

UNHCR can scale up its response

39:57

within 72 large-scale

40:01

emergency. Your support helps

40:03

provide life-saving aid for

40:05

refugees whenever and wherever

40:08

emergencies occur. Donate to

40:10

USA for UNHCR by

40:12

visiting unrefugees.org/donation. Let's

40:16

take a look at the morning papers.

40:18

We begin in Ohio where the Columbus

40:21

Dispatch reports state lawmakers failed

40:23

to advance a plan this week to put

40:25

President Biden on the November ballot. Under state

40:27

law, officials must

40:30

certify Ohio's ballot by August

40:32

7th, but Biden won't be

40:34

officially nominated until the Democratic

40:36

National Convention 12 days later.

40:39

Governor Mike DeWine said Biden will still

40:41

make the ballot whether he gets there

40:44

through the legislature or

40:46

the courts. Let's move now

40:48

to the Arkansas Democrat Gazette has

40:50

a front-page feature on the Department

40:52

of Veterans Affairs misusing millions of

40:54

dollars. An investigation by

40:56

the Inspector General's office found

40:58

the department improperly handed out

41:01

nearly $11 million in bonuses to more

41:03

than 180 senior executives last year. The

41:08

money came from funds that Congress

41:11

had earmarked to recruit and keep

41:13

staff who were needed to process

41:15

new veterans benefits. The

41:17

head of the VA reportedly ordered

41:20

all the executives to give back

41:22

their bonuses, but many have

41:24

already spent the money. To

41:27

Connecticut, the Middletown Press reports, Connecticut

41:30

is set to join a multi-state

41:32

nursing compact. Lawmakers passed a bill

41:35

that will allow registered nurses to

41:37

provide care in Connecticut and 41

41:39

other states without needing an individual

41:42

state license. The

41:44

move comes as medical centers are dealing with

41:46

the health care worker shortage. According

41:48

to one survey, nearly one in

41:50

five U.S. health care workers have

41:52

quit their jobs since the start

41:54

of the pandemic. And

41:57

in Maryland, the Capitol Gazette is reporting on

41:59

the U.S. the ongoing cleanup effort.

42:01

Following the key bridge

42:03

collapse in March, tomorrow crews are

42:06

expected to use controlled explosives to

42:08

remove a massive piece of bridge

42:10

that is still on top

42:13

of the Dali cargo ship. According to the

42:15

paper, the ship is expected to be refloated

42:18

and returned to port by

42:20

early next week. We'll follow

42:22

that. This Mother's Day, show mom

42:24

your love, show mom

42:26

your appreciation and show mom how

42:29

dad lost the house. Draft

42:31

came. Here's another heartwarming

42:41

one. Look at this. At

42:44

Home Depot, we care about what mothers

42:46

need the most. Lockable

42:48

bathroom doorknob. Because

42:50

sometimes you just need five awesome

42:52

minutes by yourself to stare at

42:54

your phone. Home Depot, this Mother's

42:56

Day might make me some alone

42:59

time. Mika,

43:03

I'm very happy early Mother's Day to

43:05

you, Mika, a couple days away. I

43:07

think those both of those maybe hit

43:09

close to home that Jimmy had on

43:11

last night. No? They did, but

43:14

I'm at the stage where I actually

43:16

really want the kids. I need them.

43:18

But I remember that stage. And

43:20

I already got my Mother's Day gift,

43:23

Willie. They gave me a Ninja

43:25

Creamy. It's an ice cream maker.

43:29

No way. My birthday. And then

43:32

Mother's Day in between. Yes. That's

43:35

amazing. Elise,

43:37

what about you? You've got smaller

43:39

people in your house. The doorknob

43:41

I had hit home. Because

43:44

we're, you know, she's three at this point.

43:46

Private time? That's private time. So

43:48

that's what that's where we are. But it's a fun stage

43:50

to be at. Yeah,

43:53

ice cream maker is a good idea. I like

43:55

that. Happy Mother's Day to both of you. And

43:57

I should say today is my dad's birthday too.

43:59

So happy birthday. to my dad a very

44:01

a weekend of celebration.

44:04

Yes. Yes. So

44:06

we got this hour joining our

44:08

conversation NBC News and MSNBC political

44:10

analyst former US Senator Claire McCaskill

44:12

she and Jen Paul Marry our

44:14

co host of the MSNBC podcast

44:16

how to win 2024

44:18

Happy Mother's Day to you to Claire

44:21

and Pulitzer Prize you calmness associate editor

44:23

of the Washington Post. You Jean Robinson.

44:25

Let's dive right into the top. Thank

44:27

you. Yes, sir. Donald

44:31

Trump going on the offensive against

44:34

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. in a

44:36

four minute video posted to True

44:38

Social last night. Trump ripped the

44:40

independent presidential candidate accusing him of

44:43

lying about being anti vaccine. He's

44:46

not enough of an anti vaxxer

44:48

according to Donald Trump. This comes

44:50

as recent polls show Kennedy taking

44:52

a sizable bite away from both

44:54

Trump and President Biden in several

44:56

battleground states. Here are some of

44:58

that new video from Trump. So

45:01

Republicans get it out of your mind

45:03

that you're going to vote for this guy because

45:06

he's conservative. He's not. And for those

45:08

of you that want to vote because

45:10

you think he's an anti vaxxer. He's

45:12

not really an anti vaxxer. That's only

45:15

his political moment. I'd even take Biden

45:17

over junior because our country

45:19

would last about a year or two

45:21

longer than it would with junior would

45:23

collapse almost immediately and his family

45:25

a radical left a

45:28

crazy left a bunch of lunatics

45:30

would take over and our country

45:32

will die very quickly. So RFK

45:35

views on vaccines are

45:37

fake as is everything else about his candidacy.

45:39

He is not a Republican. So don't think

45:41

you're going to vote for him and feel

45:43

good. Claire,

45:46

he's never been good at fighting his fear.

45:48

And now we see it out in the

45:50

open. He is very worried about Robert F.

45:52

Kennedy Jr. Saying he is not anti vax

45:54

enough. Don't believe what he's saying. I'm the

45:56

real anti vaxxer here. By the way, we

45:59

should point out that Donald Trump's

46:01

administration led Operation Warp Speed,

46:03

which was a medical miracle, thank God, to

46:06

get the vaccine into the arms of people

46:08

and save lives. So what do you see

46:10

in that video? Yeah,

46:12

I remember when Trump still talked

46:14

about developing the vaccine at

46:16

rallies and he got booed and he finally figured

46:18

out that this was the place that

46:20

the cult was not gonna go with him on

46:23

how quickly he claimed

46:25

he developed a vaccine during the

46:28

pandemic. Yeah, he's worried, he's

46:30

worried. I thought the clip, the part of

46:32

the clip that was astounding to me, he says Biden is

46:34

better than

46:37

Bobby Jr. He

46:39

actually said Biden is better. That's

46:42

interesting that he would do that. I think

46:44

that was a momentary fail in his normal

46:47

way of communicating. I think

46:49

both Biden and Trump are worried

46:51

about RFK. Now, I think as

46:53

this goes on and Bobby

46:55

Kennedy is more and more exposed for

46:58

some of the crazy town stuff he's

47:00

said, for his

47:03

frankly not being upfront about some

47:05

of his issues and his life.

47:08

I think he will fade, but people

47:11

need to remember, this is an election

47:13

where nobody likes, well, most people don't

47:15

like their choices. And

47:18

that's just not an abnormal

47:20

thing. There's

47:22

a lot of people, by the time election

47:24

rolls around and presidential, they will say

47:26

to you, I've heard it a thousand times. I don't

47:29

like either one of the candidates. So

47:31

having a third party name out there that

47:34

people recognize is a danger to both of

47:36

these guys. Yeah, and Gene Robinson, we

47:38

said we don't really know yet who RFK Jr.

47:41

hurts more. Polls suggest he's drawing from both.

47:43

Early on, it seemed more Biden these days,

47:45

a little more Trump, but it's still an

47:47

issue for both. So we see

47:49

that Trump has gone after him in that video.

47:52

I'm just amazed he didn't mention the brain worm. You

47:55

know, the Biden campaign has

47:58

also done the same, pointing out some of RFK Jr. rather

48:01

inflammatory statements. So weigh in on that and

48:03

also what you see is the Biden campaign's

48:05

current strategy against Trump where they're taking this

48:07

moment here, early spring, akin to what Obama

48:09

did to Romney in 2012 and

48:12

just saturating the airwaves with ads, really trying

48:14

to define this race as early as it

48:16

can with the moment when Donald Trump

48:18

is stuck in the Manhattan courtroom. Yeah,

48:20

that's right. I mean, first on RFK

48:23

Jr., I just

48:25

don't, that was really

48:27

weird, I thought, of Trump.

48:29

First of all, it's a weird line

48:32

of attack to try to convince people

48:34

that RFK Jr. is not really an

48:36

anti-vaxxer. I mean, he is the anti-vaxxer,

48:39

right? He is more anti-vaxx than certainly

48:41

anybody else who's anywhere near

48:43

this race. And so that just

48:46

doesn't, that rings hollow. And I

48:48

wonder if they have, if the

48:50

Trump campaign thinks it has some

48:52

soundings out there in some of

48:55

the swing states that

48:57

maybe he's hurting Trump too

48:59

much. Maybe he's hurting Trump

49:02

more than he's hurting Biden.

49:04

And because that

49:06

had a whiff of panic about it,

49:08

it was really very strange. On

49:11

the Biden strategy, yeah,

49:14

I mean, they've got this sort of

49:16

open field right now. And

49:19

so the president is

49:21

running around and

49:24

his surrogates are running around

49:26

trying to talk about the

49:28

administration's accomplishments, trying to talk

49:30

about the danger of really

49:33

thinking Donald Trump. And

49:36

so, I think that's really the

49:39

thing for them to be doing. Of

49:42

course there are issues. There are

49:44

lots of things that President Biden

49:46

has to be worried about right

49:49

now, including Israel-Palestine

49:51

and the war in Gaza, and

49:53

it splits in the Democratic coalition

49:55

over that. But I think

49:58

he's doing what he needs to do. I

50:01

do have a side question about for from

50:03

a mirror, which is what is the deal

50:05

with your Celtics boy? They don't help the

50:07

joint last night. I Can't

50:09

I'll do that real I'll do that real quick

50:12

this man. Thank thanks for bringing that up This

50:15

is who they are. They're so inconsistent. They can't

50:17

handle prosperity They don't seem to have a killer

50:19

instinct say the second straight round. They've lost a

50:21

game two at home They're under

50:23

500 at home in the playoffs over the last

50:25

couple years. It is Infurating

50:27

I I still think they'll get through

50:29

this series, but they're making it harder on themselves as the

50:32

bottom line Oh my

50:34

lord well in a political week

50:36

where I I'm trying to even

50:38

Encapsulate the things that happened this week

50:40

from worms and brains just as a

50:42

job For

50:45

magazine Why don't we

50:48

just go to RFK juniors position on abortion?

50:50

So in an interview this week RFK jr.

50:52

Said he does not support the

50:54

government putting limitations on abortion

50:58

even with full-term pregnancy I Wouldn't

51:02

leave it to the stage wouldn't right?

51:04

No, I would I would say completely

51:07

It's up to the women believe is what we

51:09

should leave it to the woman. We shouldn't have

51:11

government involved even if it's full-term Even

51:15

if it's full-term, okay,

51:17

and I think that's where that's what I wanted to clarify Yeah

51:22

I'd like a little clarification on that

51:24

too the policy position goes further than

51:26

even most Democrats and seemed to surprise

51:29

His vice presidential pick Nicole

51:31

Shanahan who when she appeared

51:33

on the actual same podcast I spoke to

51:35

Bobby about this and at the end of

51:37

the day He

51:40

says yes, this is a woman's choice

51:42

period and I said even up

51:44

till birth And

51:46

and yes with his answer. No, no, no, I

51:49

and that is not Bobby's

51:51

position as I understand it My

51:54

understanding with Bobby's position is that

51:57

you know, every abortion is a tragedy tragedy,

52:00

as a loss of

52:02

life. My understanding is

52:04

that he absolutely believes in the

52:07

limits on abortion.

52:09

And we've talked about this. I do

52:11

not think, I

52:14

don't know where, where that came from. Well,

52:18

it's a significant change in position for

52:20

RFK Jr. in August of last

52:22

year. Candidate told NBC News he

52:24

would sign a national abortion ban

52:26

after the first three months of

52:28

pregnancy his campaign later

52:31

walked back his statement on

52:33

legislation banning abortion. And Nicole

52:35

Shanahan is an interesting figure

52:38

in all of this. And coming up in

52:40

the nine o'clock hour of morning Joe, Joanna

52:43

Coles of the Daily Beast, they

52:45

have a piece on her and

52:47

her financial influence potentially on the overall

52:49

election. So we'll get to

52:52

that coming up. But let's back up a

52:54

little bit and talk about this stance on

52:56

abortion that RFK put out there. Claire McCaskill,

52:59

this to me seems like

53:02

one of one of three major

53:04

issues in this election that could

53:07

put people over the edge in terms of their

53:09

decision on who they vote for. What

53:11

did RFK just do for himself there?

53:15

Well, he showed how unserious he is as a

53:17

candidate. You know, Mika, there

53:19

are candidates all across this country right

53:21

now running for state representative and

53:24

running for a county council that

53:27

are thinking about this issue

53:29

and searching themselves about

53:32

what they believe the

53:34

role of government should be in

53:37

reproductive health care. And,

53:39

you know, this is not an easy

53:41

issue for many people because people feel

53:43

so strongly about it. But

53:46

it's not one where anybody

53:48

with their right mind would

53:50

be changing their position like you change your

53:52

shirt. And it appears

53:54

to me that Bobby Kennedy is searching

53:56

for quote unquote the right answer.

54:00

And this is these are the kind of mistakes

54:02

that a candidate for the

54:04

lowest office in the country might make.

54:07

But somebody who's putting themselves out there that

54:09

they are in a position to lead for

54:11

him to say one month, I'm

54:14

for an abortion ban, a national abortion

54:16

ban. And then the next month

54:18

say, hey, yeah, I think a full term

54:20

abortion is fine. I don't think the state

54:22

should have anything to say about that. It

54:25

just shows that he's not a serious candidate.

54:28

And frankly, I don't know what has motivated him to

54:30

do this, but he's not in

54:32

a position to hold the highest office

54:35

in this country, period. End of discussion.

54:38

And even worse, Jonathan Lemire, Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

54:40

Definitely is the kind of guy who takes off

54:43

his shoes and his socks sitting next to you

54:45

on an airplane as evidenced by his. Oh,

54:48

my. Don't do that. Oh, there's no need.

54:50

There's no need for that. No.

54:54

John, let's talk. You mentioned it a

54:56

minute ago, but how seriously the Biden

54:59

campaign is taking Robert F. Kennedy

55:01

Jr. As you say, it's kind of hard

55:03

to figure out who he's polling from. Obviously

55:05

Donald Trump is worried about Bobby

55:08

Kennedy Jr. here and the kind of voter

55:10

that he might take from Donald Trump. But

55:12

how is the Biden campaign assessing the threat?

55:15

Because as we've seen in polls, even just

55:17

this week, he's polling pretty high into the

55:19

double digits, 14 percent, 18 percent

55:21

in some of these swing states. Yeah. And

55:24

I'm glad that we have a shoes on policy

55:26

here at Morning Show, although we should know them.

55:29

Heck yeah. Not everybody has socks on all the

55:31

time. I won't name names. I think we all

55:34

know. I think we all know. But

55:37

yes, on this one here,

55:40

first of all, the Biden campaign has really

55:43

ramped up their operations going after third party

55:45

candidates. I mean, they take it seriously. Even

55:47

Cornel West, Jill Stein, who are barely picking

55:49

up on the polls, but it's a point

55:51

here point there and a race this close,

55:53

even they matter. But they're mostly focused on

55:55

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. I think there's just

55:57

a sense that low information voters see the

55:59

Kennedy last. name and go, oh wow, yeah,

56:01

of course, his father, his uncle, you know,

56:03

that's what I'm for. And he may

56:06

lose some votes there, particularly in communities right

56:08

now like African-American communities where the Biden campaign

56:10

has struggled some. So they're really doing their

56:12

best and spending a lot of money even,

56:14

sort of making sure the voters know what

56:17

he really stands. But I think there's a growing

56:19

sense, Willie, in Wilmington that RFK

56:21

Jr. probably poses more of a threat to

56:23

Trump. It pulls

56:26

from both, to be sure, but maybe more of an

56:28

issue for Trump. And that's why we're seeing these

56:31

videos and other attacks from the presumptive

56:33

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