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NetCredit, credit to the people. Were.

0:17

Not afford to nation where we sounds

0:19

people are squash to show. The

0:22

people are heard. In. Fact:

0:24

Peaceful protesters in the best tradition

0:26

of how burgers respond to can't

0:29

control issues. But. But.

0:32

Neither are we a lawless

0:34

country where our civil society

0:36

and order must prevail. That's

0:40

President Joe Biden for the first

0:42

time. Probably addressing the protests on

0:44

campuses across the country. Will have

0:47

more of his comments and bring

0:49

you the very latest on the

0:51

demonstrations. Plots: Were still

0:53

six months away from the presidential

0:56

election, but Donald Trump is already

0:58

suggesting that he will not accept

1:00

the results if he loses. Will.

1:03

Bring you That and President Biden

1:05

response and will have Jos conversation

1:08

with Jerry Seinfeld and a cast

1:10

of his new Netflix comedy on

1:12

Frosted. A. Movie about the

1:15

creation of the beloved Breakfast Street.

1:17

Pop. Tarts. Good

1:19

morning and welcome to Morning Joe! It

1:21

is Friday we made it to Friday.

1:23

it's Friday May third I'm Jokela Me

1:26

or along with us Special Correspondent for

1:28

Bbc News Katty Kay worrying for Joe

1:30

Meek and the Birthday Boy. Willie.

1:32

Geist and with us this morning we

1:34

have White House Director of Timid former

1:36

White House Director of Going occasions that

1:38

President Obama, Jennifer Palmieri, pulitzer prize winning

1:41

economist and Associate Editor of the Washington

1:43

Post, Eugene Robinson. And. Deputy Managing

1:45

Editor for Politics at Politico. you just

1:47

some host way too early. Sam.

1:50

Stein. So catty we met. It's Friday. we

1:52

have a lot to get to this morning,

1:54

but we should just note what we played

1:56

at the top their that was President Biden.

2:00

There are days and weeks of unrest,

2:02

a college campuses finally making some public

2:04

comments that even more than a week

2:06

since he addressed thumbs ah, he had

2:08

asked his aides the night before to

2:10

start prepping some remarks, or even Casey

2:12

did need to speak about them ahead

2:14

of his major speech this next week

2:16

about anti semitism. And then when the

2:18

White House in the Nation woke up

2:20

yesterday morning to the scenes of unrest

2:22

that you see lights they felt they

2:24

couldn't wait any longer. And we heard

2:26

from present. Yeah. Festival Pop

2:28

Tarts a breakfast that's a very bad idea.

2:30

We've all been told. Not to my shirt

2:32

break. The signs are hopeful. Movie on from

2:34

that for to O'hara attack. oh I haven't

2:36

tested parts are in a while but they

2:39

are delicious Well now and apparently is this

2:41

is akin to the movies akin to a

2:43

Sputnik Tests Space Race the race to create

2:45

the pop tarts it's must be hilarious. I

2:48

can't wait to hear which area so we

2:50

could man a man on the moon or

2:52

we could create. A pop tart more putting

2:54

those in the same breath. But anyway, I am

2:56

going to be on from that. We made it

2:59

into Friday. the White House is just hoping they

3:01

gonna make it to graduation. That seems to be

3:03

the kind of message from the right has right

3:05

like get these they want to get these kids

3:07

have they want to get these his home from

3:10

the summer they felt they had to say something.

3:12

and the prayer in lists two conflicting bases here

3:14

that the President has to recharge it as the

3:16

base. Two other kids in universities who are very

3:19

focused on Gaza who are upset about the government's

3:21

policies, who don't like the idea that their tax.

3:23

Dollars are being used to fund those weapons

3:25

that a be used against Palestinians bothers me.

3:27

Equally important base to the present not swing

3:29

voters who may be looking at the kinds

3:32

of seems that they soaring Columbia Us maybe

3:34

look at Ten Seasons a sword you Cla

3:36

and the president had to try to reach

3:38

out to both of those that I thought

3:40

it was really interesting use it sounded to

3:42

me like he was a much. More focused

3:44

on the swing voters. This is the

3:46

kind of speech I think that administrations in

3:48

universities will have been happy to hear because

3:51

he was saying what they're what the university's

3:53

themselves have been say that this kind of

3:55

the violence that's unlawful. Yes, peaceful protests, but

3:57

it's kind of. Disruption. That.

4:00

work. Okay, we're going to begin

4:02

this hour though with the latest

4:04

developments surrounding Donald Trump's criminal hush

4:06

money trial. Court will resume this

4:09

morning after Keith Davidson, the former

4:11

lawyer for Stormy Daniels and Karen

4:13

McDougall completed his testimony yesterday. NBC

4:15

News senior legal correspondent Laura Jarrett

4:18

has the big takeaways from his

4:20

day on the stand. Former

4:23

President Trump arriving at court watching

4:25

his defense team go on offense,

4:28

casting a key prosecution witness as

4:30

out to extort him for money.

4:32

The defense hoping to discredit Keith

4:34

Davidson, the lawyer who negotiated payoffs

4:36

for Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougall,

4:39

both threatened to go public with stories of

4:41

sex with Mr. Trump ahead of the 2016

4:43

election. Mr. Trump

4:45

has denied the allegations of both women

4:47

and denied any advanced knowledge of the

4:49

payoffs. His defense team suggesting Davidson had

4:51

a habit of shaking down celebrities like

4:54

Charlie Sheen for money. Davidson

4:56

saying he never extorted anyone, testifying

4:59

at length about his negotiations with

5:01

Michael Cohen, Mr. Trump's former attorney,

5:03

but admitting he never met nor

5:06

spoke to the former president. Instead,

5:09

he dealt exclusively with Cohen, who he

5:11

painted as desperate and despondent that then-president-elect

5:13

Trump would not make him attorney general

5:16

or White House chief of staff, describing

5:18

a phone call where Cohen lamented, I

5:20

can't believe I'm not going to Washington.

5:23

Cohen saying he'd saved Trump so many

5:25

times, you don't even know. Davidson

5:27

testifying about Cohen, I thought he was

5:30

going to kill himself. A

5:32

helpful point for the defense as it tries

5:34

to cast Cohen as having an ax to

5:36

grind against Mr. Trump. The

5:38

former president is accused of illegally

5:40

doctoring his internal records to disguise

5:43

his repayments to Cohen, making Cohen's

5:45

testimony critical for prosecutors, who are

5:47

now seeking additional fines against Mr.

5:50

Trump, saying he violated a gag

5:52

order again by calling his former

5:54

fixer a liar. While The defense

5:57

argues the former president should be allowed to

5:59

defend himself. I didn't Hollins. Frequent

6:01

Criticism: Some. Unconstitutionally

6:04

gagged. He gag raison not even

6:06

supposed to be I would say

6:08

talk to do because he gags

6:11

me. We. Can

6:13

fact check that that as not true.

6:15

That was Embassies larger reporting and let's

6:17

now bringing former litigator an Msnbc Lou

6:20

Corresponded, Lisa Ruben Least even find this

6:22

trial so very close. Delicious.was! your broad

6:24

take away from what we've heard yesterday

6:26

from Daves? Want to see. I

6:29

think we're Davidson. We were swimming

6:31

in a place that nobody really

6:33

wanted to be, like just drowning

6:35

in the muck. But when you

6:37

take away the Hulk Hogan and

6:39

Lindsay Lohan and all the other

6:41

people with him, keeps Davidson Deaths

6:43

at And Space Songs and keeps.

6:45

Davison is a person who testified

6:47

about his transactions with Michael Cohen

6:49

and how desperate Michael Cohen was

6:51

to get these deals done and

6:53

the ultimate take away that he

6:56

had, even though she never dealt

6:58

with Donald Trump directly. With that,

7:00

Donald Trump was the ultimate source of

7:02

the funding. In other words, while he

7:04

understood that Cohen at some point put

7:06

up the money himself for the Stormy

7:09

Daniel steal, it was always his understanding

7:11

that Trump was going to be the

7:13

ultimate source and the pay. Or so

7:15

Cohen looms large. Here is obviously such

7:18

a key players at this. Have we

7:20

gotten a better sense as to. When

7:23

we might sheer from when he'll be called to

7:25

the sand as it when we know. Said.

7:27

That Trump's worth defense. Really gonna try to

7:29

make the issue of his credibility. Are you

7:31

seen enough efforts here from the prosecution to

7:34

bolster that's a to sort of counteract was

7:36

coming. I think we see

7:38

a lot of it in a couple

7:40

of, with one is surrounding the case

7:42

with other sources of evidence whether they

7:44

be audio recordings for example, we heard

7:46

a couple yesterday, or all sorts of

7:48

paper, text messages, emails, and then of

7:50

course there's the effort to surround coincide

7:52

with other people that she dealt with

7:54

directly so that they can corroborate his

7:56

story, marry record. Our colleague made a

7:58

really good point yesterday. they are trying

8:00

to in newer the jury to the

8:02

fact that Call was not a particularly

8:04

well liked or admired person even in

8:07

Trump world so that by the time

8:09

they encounter him, they are sort of

8:11

immune to the fact that she's not

8:13

very likeable and yet are willing to

8:15

share a historic because it's already been

8:17

bolstered by so many of the people

8:19

they've heard from whether B D, The

8:21

Packers or Keys Davidson or maybe some

8:23

the witnesses we've yet to hear from,

8:25

including potentially Hope Hicks that's A that's

8:27

yesterday, What? What's up next? Or still

8:29

hearing from. A man named Doug doubt

8:31

she is a forensic specialists in

8:34

the Da's office and his role

8:36

here is to authenticate lots of

8:38

stuff taken off of Collins folks.

8:40

how did it debt from Cohen's

8:42

phone into the Da's hand? One

8:44

of the things I thought was

8:46

really interesting yesterday was the insinuation

8:48

by Trump's team that the data

8:50

uncommon phone could have been manipulated

8:53

or deleted before it was in

8:55

the Da's hands. That is a

8:57

deep state conspiracies waiting to explode

8:59

over the. Weekend and perhaps Engineer

9:01

Jumps Not for the audience of

9:03

the jurors in this case, but

9:06

for the larger populace of jurors

9:08

aka voters who might be interested

9:10

in hearing something that dovetails with

9:12

Trump's frequent were frames of this

9:14

as rigged. This is a witch

9:17

hunt they've always been out to

9:19

get me. this is a biden.

9:21

trial Rights cheering that the Sci,

9:23

for example, could have insufficiently protected

9:26

the state a worse even manipulated

9:28

it themselves. That's a narrative. That

9:30

goes straight into that see backward. City

9:32

Roberts And let's talk about these to audiences. You're

9:34

just there's the twelve jurors in the Ultimate, but

9:37

a much broader the electorate or and Trump and

9:39

his team to play for them as well. but

9:41

my own. Your. even the even

9:43

his friends acknowledge it that a problem

9:45

with us an unsavory character i am

9:48

dozens of other reporters are in the

9:50

choices teacher pages to get threatening phone

9:52

calls from cohen we know who he

9:54

was on but this is also visited

9:56

yesterday in particular such a tawdry display

9:58

of the unseemliness of world. How

10:00

do you think that's playing to that

10:02

large audience, those broad voters, particularly those

10:04

who might still be trying to decide

10:07

where to vote in November? You

10:09

know, it's

10:11

a highly unattractive world and

10:13

as you said, seemingly and

10:16

kind of salacious

10:18

and awful. I

10:20

think most people watching this might

10:24

take issue with the question of

10:26

whether or not this lawyer is

10:28

an extortionist. That doesn't get to

10:30

the question of the

10:32

trial though, the falsification

10:35

of business records as

10:37

a felony. And

10:39

so I'm not quite sure which way

10:41

it cuts. I'm curious to ask

10:44

Lisa. Lisa,

10:46

how do you think it played

10:48

with, at least

10:50

inside the courtroom and

10:52

maybe outside of the

10:55

courtroom, because this is

10:57

really like Todrie on

10:59

steroids, the whole story that

11:01

we heard yesterday. It's absolutely

11:03

Todrie on steroids. And to your

11:05

point about whether Davidson engaged

11:08

in something akin to what

11:10

he'll call extraction, if not

11:12

extortion, to the extent

11:15

that jurors believe that Trump lowered

11:17

himself into this world as

11:19

opposed to the fact that he might

11:21

have been floating well above it, that's

11:24

really the question that the DA has

11:26

to answer. They have to show these

11:28

people not only that this seamy underbelly

11:30

of American gossip existed, but that Trump

11:32

was willing to dive into it with those folks.

11:36

Yeah, Lisa, Sam Stein here. I guess I'm caught

11:38

up on the same issue, which is if you

11:40

can't establish that people

11:42

like Keith Davidson were actually in direct communication with

11:44

Trump, in fact, it was

11:46

only established that he was talking to Michael Cohen. Isn't

11:49

that a problem? Right? I mean, don't you need to

11:51

say, yes, Trump knew of this stuff and directed it.

11:53

Otherwise, what are you hanging this on? Well,

11:55

you're right. You have to show that Trump knew about

11:57

this stuff and directed it, which is where Cohen comes

11:59

in. but also where people

12:01

perhaps connected to the

12:04

campaign come in. Remember, David Pecker,

12:06

for example, spoke extensively with Trump,

12:08

albeit about Karen McDougall. What

12:10

we might need to see now is how

12:12

Trump interacted with other people in his orbit,

12:14

even if it's after the Faxfam, after the

12:16

payments were made, I mean, in

12:19

acknowledging that this stuff actually happened. And

12:21

that's where I'm particularly eager to hear

12:23

from Hope Hicks. Hope Hicks has previously

12:25

testified to the House Judiciary Committee that

12:28

during the campaign itself, she was not

12:30

aware of hush money payments

12:32

and everything she knew about Stormy Daniels and

12:34

Karen McDougall she learned from the press. On

12:37

the other hand, she refused to testify about

12:39

any knowledge or involvement she had in these

12:41

issues once she got to the White House.

12:43

We're now at a point five years later

12:46

where executive privilege has been litigated extensively. Hope

12:48

Hicks probably cannot rely on executive privilege to

12:50

get her out of talking about those things

12:52

now. So what I want to know is

12:54

how did Hope Hicks go from the campaign

12:57

to a point in time where David Pecker

12:59

says he talked to her and Sarah Sanders

13:01

about whether it was worth extending Karen

13:03

McDougall's exclusivity arrangement with the employer, for

13:06

example. That means that Hope Hicks at

13:08

some point had an understanding that David

13:10

Pecker did pay Karen McDougall. What she

13:12

knew about McDougall and Stormy Daniels during

13:14

that period of time in Trump's employ,

13:17

what she might have even discussed with

13:19

Trump himself, I'm really eager to hear

13:21

in the days to come. Lisa,

13:23

let's close with an update on the

13:26

gag order Trump saying yesterday that it's

13:28

preventing him to testifying. Please fact check

13:30

that. But also just what we heard in

13:32

that hearing and how do you think this play is out going

13:34

forward? I think the strongest point

13:36

for Trump's folks was pointing to recent

13:38

tweets by Michael Cohen because that gets

13:40

them the closest to their defense of

13:42

Trump is really just trying to defend

13:44

himself. On the other hand, Trump's

13:46

statement about the jury coming from a pool of

13:49

95% Democrats. The

13:51

jury had already been seated when he

13:53

made that comment. Juan Rashan didn't seem

13:55

particularly friendly to the arguments that the

13:57

defense was making. out

14:00

the look what you made him do

14:02

defense, I'll call it. You know, Biden's

14:04

talking about stormy weather. Michael Cohen's on

14:06

Twitter. Even look at the press behind

14:08

us. They're talking about every whisper that

14:10

we make to our client

14:12

and candidate. Marcheng was having none of

14:15

that. And he basically said, look, your

14:17

client is the criminal defendant here. None

14:20

of those folks are subject to my gag

14:22

order right now, nor could some of them

14:24

be. I'm interested in talking about your client,

14:26

his behavior and his choices. Reporter is

14:28

also reporting when Donald Trump seems to

14:30

fall asleep. Trump took to social media

14:32

yesterday to rebut that thing. He was

14:34

simply resting his beautiful blue eyes. So

14:36

we'll, we'll leave it there. MSNBC legal

14:38

correspondent Lisa Rubin invaluable as always. Thank

14:40

you, Lisa. And coming up here on

14:42

morning, Joe, in just one minute, order

14:44

has been restored on the campus of

14:47

UCLA after police arrested more than 200

14:49

protesters there. We'll bring

14:51

you the latest in the fallout.

14:54

Plus, president Biden breaks the silence

14:56

on those nationwide demonstrations. We'll

14:58

play for you his new remarks and

15:01

also ahead. We'll talk to

15:03

retired Navy Admiral James to read

15:05

us about where things stand in

15:07

the ceasefire negotiations between Israel and

15:09

Hamas, as well as

15:12

the new worries about China's involvement

15:14

in the war in Ukraine. Morning

15:16

Joe is back in just 60 seconds. For

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16:54

The campus of UCLA remains orderly this

16:56

morning following the chaos that we saw

16:58

play out yesterday morning. Police

17:00

arrested more than 200 protesters from an

17:03

encampment. Officers in

17:05

riot gear swarmed the university early

17:07

yesterday morning. They confronted protesters and

17:09

dismantled the camp. The

17:12

clash lasted several hours. Police had to

17:14

launch flares to try to disperse the

17:16

large crowd. According to

17:18

the chancellor of UCLA, about 300 people

17:20

did, though, leave voluntarily. The

17:22

university called the police earlier in

17:25

the week after the protest

17:27

turned violent. Fights erupted between

17:29

pro-Palestinian demonstrators and Israeli supporters.

17:31

UCLA then declared the encampment

17:33

illegal. The chancellor explained

17:35

the school's decision in a statement

17:38

yesterday, writing, quote, while many of

17:40

the protesters at the encampment remained

17:42

peaceful, ultimately, the site became a

17:44

focal point for serious violence, as

17:46

well as a huge disruption to

17:48

our campus. Meanwhile, President

17:50

Biden, as we said earlier, has

17:52

broken his silence on the unrest

17:54

at college campuses. Yesterday, in an

17:56

unscheduled address delivered from the White

17:58

House, the president can condemned the

18:01

violence and anti-Semitism. Violent

18:04

protest is not protected. Peaceful

18:07

protest is. It's against

18:09

the law when violence occurs. Destroying

18:11

property is not a peaceful protest.

18:14

It's against the law. Vandalism,

18:17

trespassing, breaking windows, shutting down

18:19

campuses, forcing the cancellation of

18:21

classes and graduations. None of

18:23

this is a peaceful protest.

18:26

Threatening people, intimidating people,

18:29

instilling fear in people is not

18:31

peaceful protest. It's against the law.

18:34

Dissent is essential to democracy, but

18:36

dissent must never lead to disorder or

18:38

to deny the rights of others so

18:40

students can finish the semester and their

18:43

college education. Look,

18:45

it's basically a matter of fairness. It's

18:47

a matter of what's right. There's

18:49

the right to protest, but not

18:51

the right to cause chaos. Let's

18:54

be clear about this as well. There

18:57

should be no place on any campus, no

19:00

place in America for anti-Semitism

19:03

or threats of violence against Jewish students. There

19:06

is no place for hate speech or

19:08

violence of any kind, whether

19:10

it's anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, or

19:13

discrimination against Arab Americans or Palestinian

19:15

Americans. It's simply wrong.

19:17

There's no place for racism in America.

19:20

It's all wrong. It's un-American. And

19:23

then while answering reporter questions, the president

19:26

rejected the idea of deploying the National

19:28

Guard to quell this unrest. He

19:30

also said he will not change his

19:32

policies on the Middle East. Let's bring

19:34

in former Supreme Allied Commander of NATO, retired

19:37

four-star Navy Admiral James Travidas. He is

19:39

Chief International Analyst for Embassy News. And

19:41

we will remind you all that the

19:43

Admiral also spent five years as the

19:45

Dean of the Fletcher School of Law

19:47

and Diplomacy at Tufts University. It's kind

19:49

of with that hat on that

19:51

we wanna speak to you this morning, Admiral. When

19:54

you look at how the president responded, and

19:56

when you look at how police are reacting,

19:58

do you think the appropriate measures are... now

20:00

being taken on campuses or

20:02

are administrations going too far in bringing

20:04

outside law enforcement onto

20:06

campuses? Where do you stand on it? I

20:08

stand in favor of what you just

20:11

heard from the president of the United

20:13

States. Key word here, Fletcher School of

20:15

Law and Diplomacy. We are a nation

20:17

of laws and a peaceful

20:19

protest is fine. Look, I spent much

20:21

of my life in

20:24

uniform defending the rights of

20:26

people to protest, of free speech,

20:29

of all of our values. But

20:32

free speech is different than hate

20:34

speech and peaceful protest

20:36

is different than criminal behavior.

20:38

So I applaud the administrations

20:40

that I think are doing

20:43

about as well as you

20:45

can in this difficult circumstance

20:47

because you're trying to find

20:49

a balance here. But when

20:51

the protests bleed over into

20:53

overt criminal behavior, you have

20:56

to react, take them off

20:58

campus, arrest them. And I would argue,

21:00

and I say this as a former

21:02

dean, a simple

21:04

arrest and release, a catch and

21:07

release program if you will, is

21:09

not a good idea. These students, if

21:12

they are students, by the way many

21:14

are not students, they

21:16

need to receive some kind of

21:18

sanction from that institution, a suspension,

21:21

or in extreme cases an expulsion.

21:23

So Jen, let's talk about the politics of this.

21:26

We know President Biden, reflexively pro-Israel has been throughout

21:29

and he said again he's not going to change

21:31

his policies, but this is a

21:33

tough moment. We know that the

21:35

people who are protesting here are young voters, Biden's

21:37

having trouble with them. A lot of them are

21:39

apparently students and voters of color, Biden is having

21:42

trouble with them. But yet at

21:44

the same time, these scenes of unrest, as we

21:46

mentioned at the top of the show, risk turning

21:48

off sort of independence, moderates. So give us your

21:50

analysis, give us your evaluation as to what he

21:52

said yesterday, was it enough, and what

21:54

does he also need to say Tuesday? And what

21:56

they're building is a pretty major speech on this

21:58

moment. I think this is

22:00

probably a placeholder to get to Tuesday. And

22:02

I think that when you, Joe Biden

22:05

will win reelection by

22:07

gaining a diverse

22:09

group of supporters that are gonna have very

22:11

different views. So you're gonna have young people

22:13

of color and you're gonna have older white

22:15

people and that's like how he's gonna win.

22:18

So he can't, when you're trying to put together

22:20

that kind of coalition, I don't think you can

22:22

get tripped up about thinking, what am I saying

22:24

to this audience? What am I saying to that

22:26

audience and trying to differentiate that way? And that's

22:29

when you get lost and you're not leading. That

22:32

is a recipe to not lead and this is

22:34

a moment to lead. And I think, so what

22:36

he did yesterday, come down on the side of

22:38

law and order, I thought

22:40

that was well stated, but

22:43

I think it's a placeholder to get

22:45

to Tuesday where

22:47

he can get into the bigger issues

22:50

about what's actually happening in the conflict.

22:52

It's billed as a speech on anti-Semitism.

22:55

And I think, he talked about fairness, question

22:57

of fairness, last few days, we've heard a

22:59

lot about fairness and decency from him. And

23:01

I think that's where he's going and that

23:03

I think the Tuesday speech, the

23:06

country needs to, they need him

23:08

to tell us what to think of all

23:10

of this. Because it is, people do have a

23:12

lot of feelings about it

23:15

and are concerned about the protests and

23:17

if it turns into violence. And I

23:19

think we really do need to hear

23:21

him set the table for the whole

23:23

country, not different voting populations, about

23:26

what's happening here, what we're at the US to stand

23:28

on it. Yeah, it's becoming a significant moment this

23:31

Tuesday speech, Gene Robinson. And let's

23:33

remember for any president, scenes of chaos,

23:35

scenes that the country's out of control

23:37

is deeply damaging for incumbent running for

23:39

reelection. Let's flashback just four years ago,

23:41

2020, when Donald Trump's

23:43

running for reelection, obviously there's the pandemic, but

23:45

we also had scenes of tumult with the

23:47

protests surrounding George Floyd's murder. Most of that,

23:49

of course, let's remind viewers, very

23:51

peaceful, but there were some exceptions and

23:53

we saw polling that hurt Trump. He

23:56

was blamed for fostering that sense of

23:58

unrest. the tripwire

24:00

here for Biden too. Yeah,

24:02

I mean, it is very

24:04

perilous. And you can go

24:06

way further back than that. You can go all the way

24:09

back to 1968. And

24:11

I think history

24:13

records that the days of

24:15

rage at the

24:18

Democratic Convention in

24:20

Chicago that year contributed

24:23

to Richard Nixon's victory,

24:26

to the Republican victory in

24:28

that presidential election. And

24:30

people were definitely turned off by

24:32

what they saw. At

24:35

the same time, it also, I think

24:37

the protest did sort of move

24:39

the needle further on the Vietnam

24:41

War. So in that sense, they

24:43

could say they kind of succeeded.

24:46

I have a question for Admiral Stravritus though.

24:48

If you'd put your Dean hat back

24:51

on for a second, Admiral. I

24:54

don't know the current president of Columbia. I

24:57

knew her predecessor, Lee

24:59

Bollinger very well, and

25:01

was talking to him once. And he was

25:04

complaining that there was somebody he really wanted

25:06

to hire in the political

25:08

science department or somewhere, somebody who

25:10

was really terrific. And he just

25:12

couldn't get the faculty to

25:15

say yes. And I asked

25:17

him, you're the president. Why don't

25:20

you just tell him to hire

25:22

the guy? And he just smiled

25:24

and laughed and said, oh,

25:26

you're so cute. Then

25:28

you'd think that. You have no idea how

25:30

this works. And so

25:33

the faculty is a major

25:35

constituency on these university campuses.

25:38

And they have said, the

25:40

thing they're concerned about is

25:44

protecting the students, protecting the right

25:46

of free speech, free and

25:48

open debate. And they've

25:51

been kind of married, especially the

25:53

Columbia faculty. Talk about that

25:55

as a consideration, that

25:58

all these administrators. have

26:00

to take into account. Great

26:02

conversation between you and your friend,

26:04

the president. You know,

26:06

the last sentence of Hemingway's, the

26:08

sun also rises is, isn't it

26:11

pretty to think so?

26:13

And that's a pretty good way to think

26:15

about it. I'll give

26:17

you a one word answer that the president could also

26:19

have used. He could have said tenure.

26:22

These are tenured faculty members. They

26:24

enjoy extraordinary privilege in that regard.

26:27

There's a long conversation about why

26:29

that is. There are pros and

26:31

cons to it. But it's a

26:34

very protected workforce. So that's kind

26:36

of the answer there. In terms

26:38

of today's events, many

26:40

of these faculty come out of that

26:43

68 generation, the older

26:45

tenured one. So that becomes a

26:48

force in this. And

26:50

then finally, I would just say to

26:52

everybody as we look at these protests,

26:54

they flash large on the screens. Got

26:57

it. But to my eye, there's

26:59

about a hundred campuses or so

27:01

that are affected right now. Gene,

27:04

you may know there are 4,000 institutions

27:07

in the United States that grant

27:09

a bachelor's degree. We're

27:12

not seeing protests, therefore, on 3,900 of them.

27:15

I think we're going to be okay and

27:18

get through this moment. We're going to require

27:20

some balance, some sensibility and approach. And ultimately,

27:22

we can't allow this behavior

27:25

by students or by faculty.

27:28

Yeah. And actually, I did have a conversation

27:30

with somebody in the Columbia administration to Gene's

27:32

point who said that there are perhaps about

27:34

300 faculty who have been

27:36

supporting the protesters over the administration. But

27:39

Columbia has a faculty of about 7,000.

27:42

And that the vast majority of the Columbia

27:45

faculty are actually in support of President Shafik

27:47

and the administration, the actions that they're taking.

27:49

I think so far, at least the president

27:51

does have faculty on board

27:53

with her, which, of course, is a big help.

27:55

And let me switch the conversation and turn it

27:57

a little bit to the kind of root of

27:59

the of the actual problem that we're seeing in the

28:01

Middle East that's causing all of this. We're

28:04

hearing reports that the latest round of

28:06

hostage negotiations that could lead to a

28:08

ceasefire is going a little better. Hamas

28:10

reportedly viewing this with some kind of

28:13

positive light is what we're being told.

28:15

Is that

28:17

what you're reading? What's your understanding of where we

28:19

are on that? It looked like it all just

28:21

was, you know, stop, start, stop, start. We should

28:23

put the administration in a difficult position because they

28:25

keep doing this shuttle diplomacy and then they come

28:27

back with nothing. Do you think we are at

28:29

a moment where we could be looking for some

28:32

sort of a deal over hostages in the ceasefire?

28:34

Well, as we say in that part of the word,

28:36

oh, hello, let's hope so.

28:38

I think it's a better

28:40

than even chance at the moment, which

28:42

is higher rods than I would have

28:44

given three weeks ago

28:46

or a month ago. Key

28:48

indicator Hamas is sending a

28:50

delegation, physical presence to Cairo.

28:52

I am hearing

28:55

that the conversations are progressing and

28:57

here I give credit to the

28:59

Biden administration who've done a good

29:01

job of putting pressure on

29:03

Israel, rightfully so, to get

29:05

to some kind of yes

29:08

and through the Arab

29:10

world, through the leadership and the

29:12

money side of the Arab world,

29:14

putting pressure on Hamas. So these

29:17

are two unwilling parties being somewhat

29:19

forced toward a compromised

29:21

position. But, Caddy, I think we're

29:23

probably better than even, that's wonderful.

29:25

Can I tell you one other

29:27

thing that's going well? As

29:30

we look at a small

29:32

percentage of the youth of the

29:35

United States who are protesting on

29:37

campuses, another group of American youth,

29:39

US military, are off guys, a

29:41

building a pier that's going to

29:44

open in the next few days

29:46

a floating pier, a maritime miracle

29:48

that's going to move 150 to 200 truckloads of

29:56

humanitarian aid. That's a pretty

29:58

good accomplishment. spark

30:00

of good news there. Let's hope it increases

30:02

with a ceasefire in the next few days.

30:04

But looming over all of this, the potential

30:07

Israeli invasion of Rafa, which Netanyahu has said

30:09

is going to happen, whether a ceasefire or

30:11

hostage swap deal breaks or not. Covering a

30:14

lot of ground for us this morning. Retired

30:16

Admiral James Tervides, thank you as always. We'll

30:18

talk to you again soon. Coming

30:20

up here on Morning Joe, Donald Trump

30:22

says that he will only accept the 2024

30:25

election outcome if it's

30:28

honest. I think we know what that means.

30:30

And President Biden is weighing in.

30:32

We'll play for you Biden's message

30:34

for voters when Morning Joe comes

30:36

right back. The

30:56

U.N. Refugee Agency, or UNHCR,

30:58

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for UNHCR by visiting

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unrefugees.org/donation. Both

32:00

forces are going to give it up. Martin hands

32:02

it to him, putting a count of a

32:04

shot, close up, drop, swing, hard. He

32:07

connects, huge

32:09

three. But soon, the

32:11

toss it in. Close it, heel,

32:14

throws it up. It's

32:16

out, hopefully, but it's over.

32:19

This war of attrition is won

32:21

by the Knicks. You

32:23

just saw Josh Hart drill the go-ahead three-pointer

32:25

late in the fourth quarter. And

32:27

the New York Knicks hang on just barely to beat

32:30

the Philadelphia 76ers 118 to 115 in game six last

32:34

night to advance to the

32:36

second round of the Eastern Conference playoffs.

32:38

Jalen Brunson, what a star. He led

32:40

the way once again, finishing with

32:42

at least 40 points for the third

32:45

consecutive game of the series. The

32:47

Knicks now advancing to the Conference

32:49

semifinals in consecutive seasons for the

32:51

first time in nearly a quarter

32:53

century. And those Knicks will play

32:55

the Pacers in the second round

32:57

opener. That'll be Monday night after

33:00

the Indiana Pacers knocked out the Milwaukee

33:02

Bucks with a 120 to 98 win at home last night.

33:06

Frustration set in for the Bucks in the

33:09

final minutes of the game six blowout. Milwaukee's

33:12

Patrick Beverly, watch this, will most

33:14

likely face the disciplinary action from

33:16

the league after an altercation

33:18

with Pacers fans sitting behind the Milwaukee

33:20

bench. Beverly was seen

33:22

twice throwing a basketball at fans,

33:25

hitting at least one in the head. That's going to

33:27

be a lengthy suspension. I would wager

33:29

what a disappointment for Milwaukee. Giannis Hurt didn't

33:31

play. They bring in Doc Rivers, first round

33:33

exit. And Sam Stein, what is that set

33:36

up? Knicks, Pacers, and

33:38

you, my friend, remember those

33:40

playoff wars that those two teams used

33:42

to have punctuated with

33:44

Reggie Miller, Pacers hero, villain

33:47

of MSG, giving the choke signs to Spike Lee

33:49

and the rest of the Knicks fans. This

33:52

is a fun Knicks team. They're a little banged

33:54

up. They have captivated New York City. What

33:57

are you looking for in the second round? Well, I want

33:59

Reggie to put it back. I'm on Rick Smith to

34:01

be back on the core, you know,

34:03

get those old school guys, Latrell, maybe,

34:05

you know, those are some great series

34:07

I have to say. And probably the

34:09

best, most iconic Madison Square Garden playoff

34:11

atmospheres in the last three centuries. I

34:14

don't know if we'll get that, you

34:16

know, it's not the same villainous characters,

34:18

but Brunson's incredible. I mean, let's just

34:20

be honest. He should be MVP. He's

34:23

been a marvel to watch. No, he should be

34:26

MVP. Okay. Three straight 40 point

34:28

games. It's just a remarkable. And whether you

34:30

like them or not, it's just wonderful to

34:32

have good basketball in the garden, playoff basketball in

34:34

the garden. So it's just not another atmosphere like

34:36

it. Yeah. Well, who doesn't

34:38

like Jalen Brunson? I mean, he is,

34:40

he is, he is fabulous. He's what

34:42

a great player, a kind of a

34:44

blue collar player, but he's so tricky

34:46

and so strong. He's got that upper

34:49

body strength and he's, and he's a

34:51

scoring machine. He's, I mean, he's amazing.

34:53

I, I, you know, that why I'm a little punchy

34:55

this morning because I had to stay up and watch

34:57

that game. It was so exciting. They,

35:00

they know because the Knicks went way

35:02

up by 20 points and then here

35:05

came back to the Sixers and, and

35:07

it was back and forth. And you really didn't

35:10

know until the last five minutes how this was

35:12

going to work out. But

35:14

but Lemire, does it matter? I

35:16

mean, whoever gets through, eventually somebody

35:19

is going to have to beat

35:21

your Celtics and

35:24

they're awfully strong. And then whoever comes

35:26

out of the East is going to

35:28

have to be one of

35:30

those monster teams from the West.

35:32

I mean, if you watch the

35:35

timber, the timber wolves look amazing.

35:38

And of course there's the chaps, the

35:40

nuggets. Does anybody from

35:42

the East have a chance this year?

35:44

Yeah. The Celtics are set up well

35:46

in the East. Assuming Porzingis comes back at some point, he

35:48

got injured, they'll get the winner of Cavs

35:51

magic game six in that series. Tonight

35:53

the Celtics dispatched with the hated Miami

35:55

Heat with ease earlier this

35:57

week. But you're right. loaded.

36:01

T-Wolves nuggets, a second round series but

36:03

feels like a conference finals. The Thunder

36:05

are really good too but let's focus

36:07

on what really matters. The Lakers are

36:10

already gone home. Coming up here our

36:12

morning Joe, we will play for you.

36:14

Joe Scarborough sitting down with the all-star

36:16

cast of the new film Unfrosted

36:19

which follows the birth of

36:21

the iconic Pop Tarts. We'll

36:24

hear from Jerry Seinfeld about his

36:26

directorial debut in this hilarious new

36:28

comedy that's coming up next on Morning

36:31

Joe. Next

36:41

43 am here on the east

36:43

coast a beautiful light shot from the top

36:45

of our building, 30 Rock. And

36:48

the man familiar with NBC is

36:50

comedy legend Jerry Seinfeld. He's also

36:52

no stranger to assembling an all-star

36:54

roster of talent but his

36:56

latest project may just take the cake. The

37:00

movie titled Unfrosted which is

37:02

available beginning today on Netflix

37:04

chronicles an altered history of the

37:06

invention of the Pop

37:08

Tart. You heard me the Pop Tart and

37:11

it features a star-studded cast

37:14

including Melissa McCarthy, Amy

37:16

Schumer, Christian Slater, Jim

37:18

Gaffigan, New Girl

37:20

co-star Max Greenfield and the

37:23

comedian Sarah Cooper who

37:25

you might remember from these Donald Trump

37:27

parodies. So it's

37:29

person, woman, man,

37:31

camera, TV. Okay

37:34

that's very good. If you

37:36

get it in order you get extra points. Okay,

37:38

that was asking you other questions. She

37:42

owns social media their first stretch in 2020. So

37:44

Joe recently sat down with Jerry and some

37:46

of the Unfrosted cast to discuss the making

37:48

of their film And the

37:51

experience working together. Yeah,

38:00

as rat Uma you remember that are

38:03

and says Quietest vs. Silhouette of the

38:05

movie Yeah yeah yeah. Have the Orgies

38:07

records on the back of yeah it

38:09

really did. It really did have a

38:12

huge cultural whimper. Yeah, what? what? Our

38:14

entire world country of obese people who.

38:18

We learn from then. Yes, ever was

38:20

thin in the sixties, solutions and the

38:22

same junk I don't know when I'm

38:24

Brad Jones was you came up with

38:26

decided Or and coven. My. Friends

38:28

by person who wrote the Soup

38:30

Nazi. Party with.

38:35

that we used to joke for years about

38:37

during a movie that the Pop Tarts as

38:40

I started about the pub thought in my.

38:42

Romney said the biggest food seen

38:44

that happen to me when a

38:46

man is a pop tarts the

38:48

back of my head right on

38:50

us and the to says a

38:52

stupid idea. Now and then he

38:55

said, let's talk about it and and the

38:57

robin. Another rider from my. Series.

38:59

Was talking with us. He said one of we do

39:01

it like the right stuff. And. When I

39:03

heard that how are We Were and

39:05

and I'm in Iowa and thus comedy

39:08

and your first year your first directorial

39:10

well be added of both a feature

39:12

film. Yeah definitely. But

39:14

when we were doing the series

39:16

of flour and I were always

39:18

director now we weren't moving cameras

39:20

or doing all the programming stuff

39:22

like that. but you know any

39:24

trepidation going into it soars directing

39:26

your got the dragon. Now I'm

39:28

but of I have funny people

39:30

like this. so funny people just

39:32

the it's it's about them. Again,

39:36

I'm in a good mood guns and and

39:38

of and the fun will to sap and

39:40

you know Sarah mood was great. We're in

39:42

a good out during the great. He

39:44

had a horrible time off you tell me

39:46

beforehand and since one of the worst experiences

39:48

of your life one of the worst I've

39:51

ever had, he pursued your. Yeah, he made

39:53

me stand on apple box for several hours

39:55

now and cast my eyes open and was

39:57

really only more about you know what? That's

40:00

a good movie and you know if that's what you have to do

40:02

to get a good movie? Hear? You say that director he

40:04

was sort he was kind of obsessive. he

40:06

was like i'm are no and his horse

40:08

hit Vienna where you place your hands were

40:10

tied to their hands. Where your eyes are, you

40:12

know how loud your voice is, how quick you

40:14

talk, and in this guy. Had

40:16

a great idea. Of course you do you

40:19

want to be in the next movie?

40:21

assesses Yellow and Max has add the

40:23

tongs the middle. tons of the toaster.

40:25

Remember that? Movie.

40:29

Soldier Mass I said okay

40:31

Max. now you're getting electrocuted,

40:33

right? But you're gonna fight

40:35

through it. doesn't interfere. Was

40:39

what am I have already was your favorite

40:41

moments or yeah because most people would like

40:43

go you know are not my job I

40:46

said no european up fight through. So

40:49

and so Max What was it like

40:51

Working actually? you in point arrival of

40:54

a guy that was her idol and

40:56

seems to me be like any musician.

40:59

Getting a chance to jam with Paul Mccartney.

41:01

Yeah. I'm wow I mean just working with

41:04

Jerry I bade called me and said you

41:06

to bring up Oppenheimer I got a call

41:08

about it he said hey you an audition

41:10

for Oppenheimer and they send me and said

41:12

they don't be sides and I've met my

41:14

go. This. Is I've known

41:16

simply me as a scientist or

41:18

issuer My god yeah this is

41:20

not known, wants to see those

41:22

and that was like three weeks

41:24

later they called Haiti One an

41:26

audition for Jerry Seinfeld partner moving

41:28

on have resolved as annoying as

41:30

Hell on Earth and a new

41:32

played the Kellogg. That. would

41:34

sell or just add salt as

41:36

yeah so i'd i'd always a

41:39

number of babies so upset about

41:41

an earth as know is great

41:43

i played jerry's boss some over

41:45

an ocean and very similar to

41:47

our everyday life can i tell

41:49

my mother do everything and and

41:51

and christian i believe i would

41:53

not expected you to be a

41:55

milk mafia don here yeah well

41:57

there's an element of danger I

42:00

felt, yeah, elements to the

42:02

character that were brilliantly

42:04

written. And I

42:06

like the guy's backstory, you know, he's

42:08

got children, he's got

42:10

mouths to feed. Exactly. So,

42:13

you know, this guy coming along and creating

42:15

a thing that doesn't need milk was very

42:17

upsetting. So what was it

42:19

like, Jim, just the people you

42:21

got to work with? We were joking

42:24

a lot about Oppenheimer and

42:26

Christopher Nolan. And they always say, well,

42:28

you know, when he calls, you do

42:30

it. I would guess, and I'm serious here, the

42:32

same thing. Jerry Seinfeld wants

42:34

you to be in this movie. Oh,

42:36

yeah. No, I definitely wanted to be

42:39

involved immediately. But

42:42

to your point, I mean, every

42:44

day it was, you're like, oh,

42:46

my gosh, I can't believe this person's coming

42:49

in. And it's just all these funny people

42:51

upon funny people. And then some people, you're

42:53

like, how did Jerry pull this off? Because

42:55

it is an enormous cast

42:58

and it is it really kind

43:00

of covers the spectrum

43:02

of everyone. Incredible cast. You

43:04

made light in these

43:06

politically correct times. I wrote this down.

43:09

Mussolini, JFK, the Cuban Missile

43:11

Crisis, the JFK assassination. The

43:13

aside about JFK Jr. very

43:15

gutsy, Maverick. Are you making

43:17

any progress? Not to scale,

43:19

but what are you guys,

43:21

five years old? Little John John

43:23

draws better than that. And I think

43:26

there's something wrong with them. I'm just curious. Yeah.

43:29

How did that writing go? Oh, yeah.

43:31

And just throw this line about JFK

43:33

Jr. because everybody's making jokes about him.

43:35

Yeah. That was a

43:38

Bill Birds ad lib. I'm

43:40

not surprised. We just loved

43:42

it. It was really funny. I loved it.

43:44

I didn't know that. Yeah,

43:48

he it got much worse. See

43:51

he had Alan Roosevelt coming over

43:53

for a naked swim In

43:57

that scene. We Couldn't quite put

43:59

the history. Story of that together at

44:01

yahoo Eleanor Roosevelt coming over the ugliness.

44:03

I don't know going to swim and

44:05

what as I call skinny dipping Sarah?

44:07

what was the part for you that

44:09

was the most exciting? What is enjoying

44:11

the most? Ah. Lot watching a movie was

44:13

great and the I've I've said many times

44:16

how about actually buying or selling at I

44:18

Just a funeral? Seamless. Actually one of my

44:20

favorites. When I

44:22

saw the box as Kellogg's that said

44:24

funeral size. Of

44:27

ours. Were. Like I was like this

44:29

movie is brilliant Essence assists. Punchline:

44:31

After Feinstein. Wrote me ask if

44:33

we're willing to come up with the idea

44:35

for the funeral saying. Cel. Credit

44:38

early Robin who says a

44:40

full serial on or sister

44:42

and I thought, well what

44:44

would that be. And

44:47

then I came up with we're going

44:49

to turn the grave site and was

44:51

cereal bowl and then that's why we

44:53

have killed the guy. There was no

44:56

reason to it, I don't I just

44:58

I just wanted to do the funeral

45:00

you wanted of lowering killed somebody to

45:02

have a funeral being of of cereal

45:04

you know, obsessive anything that's a whole

45:07

i wanna put milk and cereal in

45:09

it. As a whole. Range

45:17

of you. Go

45:22

to war and ceremonies Yes! Had some

45:24

of his cereals said did not make

45:26

you have for a center at one

45:28

of them called crowd of Haram as

45:30

well as. Long

45:33

as I never liked

45:35

that joseph ago. Last

45:39

bad at right? Now

45:41

larger. I think also that some

45:43

of what's so amazing about this

45:45

movie is it's. And we're talking about. One

45:48

of us thousand feds and my

45:50

layers. And like when you know

45:52

we've heard was a funeral, there's

45:55

like six different elements that are

45:57

so absurd. Ah,

46:00

Ah were more.

46:06

Ah,

46:12

Approval for like that top of

46:14

it isn't as. Easy

46:17

as was. Didn't even realize that is so

46:19

fun about this movie, but it's thought out

46:22

and the and there's a strong point of

46:24

view with that's right, that's that's what I

46:26

kind of associate with Jerry. It's point of

46:28

view driven, not the beyond. Nerdy. but

46:30

and and way it is Wrong

46:32

point. We're world is strong point

46:35

of view. It as in every

46:37

in every situation there's there's a

46:39

strong choice made. Yeah. And you

46:41

know and saw that makes sense

46:43

and some of it intensely doesn't

46:45

make sense. Yeah so it's like

46:47

never put the horizon in the

46:50

center for idea right? since the

46:52

more is oddly kind of like

46:54

as reference of like how our

46:56

culture was suicide. Rates

47:02

kind of commentary. So I love watching

47:04

movies over and over again York and is

47:06

watch him over and over again. This

47:08

is a movie that I now I'm.

47:10

Going to watch Five Six seven times

47:12

because things move so quickly and I

47:14

talked about the J F K Junior

47:16

job and ninety percent on people who

47:18

see the first will probably miss said

47:21

He talked about all these other things

47:23

and it's layer upon layer upon layer

47:25

is man and a hulu and now

47:27

suddenly finds very deep into a very

47:29

peculiar time answer. And even even though

47:31

the whole. Milkman. Thing

47:33

is it's not just like oh

47:35

the Milkman or bad as bad

47:37

as soon as there is a

47:39

complex a city. under

47:44

five and one when i give

47:46

a speech or lane a death

47:48

big meal without area on the

47:50

influence of and out for a

47:52

big town all that it either

47:54

i know i would have made

47:56

it all makes sense and cures

47:58

at attitude pitch I mean, I guess

48:01

you don't have to pitch anymore. You're like, hey, no,

48:03

Jerry if you want a lot of money We

48:07

want that I wanted it to be big

48:09

because a big Hollywood it was yeah I

48:12

better say I heard the concept and

48:14

one of the things that surprised me max was This

48:17

this is like a big there's

48:19

a big field of this you feel like you're

48:21

in Battle Creek, Michigan in 1963 Well,

48:25

if you look at you know a little town

48:27

in Michigan with two gigantic Serial

48:29

companies that hate each other. Yeah, it's

48:32

a perfect comedic Setup

48:34

a person none of it makes sense, but

48:36

we all know that it was true Yeah,

48:39

they they were in Battle Creek, Michigan. The

48:41

name of the town is Battle Creek. Come

48:43

on. It was there It's all the story

48:45

rights itself. Yeah, right. It's right. It's a

48:47

lot of story. It is a love story

48:52

We even put a love story But

48:55

it is also it's America's love of

48:57

sugar And

49:01

that was Joe's thoroughly enjoyable conversation with

49:03

the cast of the Netflix movie Unfrosted

49:06

directed by Jerry Seinfeld and

49:08

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