0:03

[Trailer] CHANG Chihyun: You want to make the exception?

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You are going to suffer, mate.

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[Intro] OF: Welcome to Mosaic of China, a podcast

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about people who are making their mark in China.

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I’m your host, Oscar Fuchs.

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We’re already well into January, but since this is the first episode of 2022 let me wish

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you all a happy new year. We’re in that weird phase between the calendar new year and the lunar new year, where I feel

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like I can’t really be bothered to do anything.

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Maybe that’s just what January is, no matter where you are in the northern hemisphere.

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Anyway, I am here, and I did manage to put together today’s compilation from Season

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02 of the show, where we hear answers to the question “If you left China, what would

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you miss the most, and what would you miss the least?”

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If you listened to the special episode from the end of 2021, you’ve probably got some

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idea about how I would answer this question!

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But now it’s over to the 30 guests of Season 02 to share their answers.

1:02

[Main] [Voiceover] OF: Zhao Huiling, the Africa travel vlogger from Episode 28.

1:09

[Clip] ZH: What would I miss the most?

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Convenience, with Alipay, with 饿了么 [Èleme]…

1:16

No. Can I change my mind?

1:19

OF: You can. ZH: OK, what I would miss the most, the Chinese food.

1:26

OF: OK, but that's too obvious. ZH: I know but there are certain characteristics to the food I like.

1:32

So it's something soupy, hot, very flavourful, spicy, with coriander.

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OF: Oh, has to have coriander.

1:41

ZH: Yes. I think the least will be the limited access to platforms like YouTube, Instagram.

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Wink, wink. OF: Wink, wink.

1:51

We all know why we can't access these things in China.

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Unless there's a special magic fairy.

1:57

ZH: Exactly. OF: Yeah.

1:59

[Voiceover] OF: Ajay Jain, the car designer from Episode

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21. [Clip] AJ: The dynamism; the reinvention; the excitement;

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the convenience of everything; the actual efficiencies of how things, if they didn't

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work today, they are definitely working tomorrow.

2:16

OF: And what about anything that you wouldn't miss

2:19

AJ: ****ing around with my VPN.

2:22

One of the biggest conveniences in China is to do with the internet.

2:26

And one of the biggest frustrations in China is to do with the internet.

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OF: Yeah. AJ: You can't have both ways.

2:31

You can't have only the convenience without some of the frustration.

2:35

And currently they blocked WeChat in India.

2:37

So now, people keep trying to contact me through WhatsApp.

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You know, I've got to fiddle around and try to get online, and they're trying to call

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me, and messaging me, wondering why I'm not responding to the messages.

2:49

OF: Right. AJ: Yeah.

2:51

[Voiceover] OF: Cassandra Chen, the heavy metal bar owner

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from Episode 16. [Clip] CC: I think I would miss the most is… this

3:01

very convenient lifestyle.

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At 2 o’clock, if you want to buy some beer, you can get it delivered in China.

3:10

Other countries, probably not. OF: And have you ever left China?

3:13

Did you ever go overseas? CC: Yeah, I went to Germany.

3:16

When I was in Germany, I really missed vegetables.

3:21

OF: Because they have a lot of meat in Germany.

3:24

CC: And I think, for them, potato is a salad.

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[Voiceover] OF: Jovana Zhang, the handicrafts designer

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from Episode 08. [Clip] JZ: I’d miss the vegetables, the range of

3:39

vegetables, which we don’t have in Europe, and it's such a pity, it's really nice.

3:43

Even some parts of the flowers, and the tree.

3:45

You know that tree you can eat it, 香椿树 [Xiāngchūnshù], you see it nowhere else.

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It's just really nice. The least I would miss the summer here, and the wetness.

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Especially 杭州 [Hángzhōu], where we saw the air, how the air circulates.

3:59

It comes from Beijing, the one wind; and from Shanghai, another wind; and they all finish

4:05

in West Lake, and become a little swirl.

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And it’s just like a dumpling in here, steaming ourselves.

4:11

[Voiceover] OF: Vladimir Djurovic, the brand naming expert

4:16

from Episode 13. [Clip] VD: The spices of China, literally and in

4:24

a metaphorical way, I think there is so much flavour, so many things to experiment.

4:30

Of course the scale, also, of things, which means you can see things that you can't imagine

4:36

in other places. And I will say the same thing that I won't miss is the scale.

4:41

If one day I leave China it will be because I want to go into a smaller place.

4:46

[Voiceover] OF: Björn Dahlman, the Swedish clown from

4:51

Episode 17. [Clip] BD: My friends, the people.

4:54

OF: Yeah. What would you miss the least?

4:56

BD: Oh, the silence of Sweden, I love it.

5:00

I am very sensitive to sound.

5:04

Cars honking, drilling, people screaming, crowded restaurants, you know.

5:09

That's the one thing. I feel it in my body, there’s a higher level of tension when all this noise is going on.

5:17

[Voiceover] OF: Jo McFarland, the product sourcing leader

5:21

from Episode 18. [Clip] JM: Well, I know this is gonna be a really

5:25

obvious answer, but I would absolutely miss the people the most.

5:28

So I mean, in the office, it's like, I am the office foreigner.

5:31

And I would miss the colleagues in the office because they tell me all the time I'm their

5:35

Chinese family. You know, we've been on a journey.

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And then there's other ladies, like down in the noodle bar that I go to, that don't speak

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any English - and my Chinese is very limited - and somehow we can communicate, and they're

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very very sweet to me. And there are so many people from all walks of life around Shanghai, that I see in my

5:55

daily life that are incredibly kind to me.

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That's what I would miss the most if I left China.

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Because this is my second time in China.

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And when I left the first time, that is what I missed.

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But the thing that I would miss the least is the sniffing.

6:08

[Sniffing sounds] Like that, right?

6:10

OF: Mmm hmm. JM: Honestly, it's like grating.

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It’s like, I can't bear it. I have to put on headphones, or get up and walk away.

6:18

I don't know how it doesn't drive them crazy.

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Because I find it totally unbearable.

6:24

OF: They would say the same about us, when they hear us going to the bathroom, blowing

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our noses, and coming back. They’re like “Eurgh, you blow your nose”.

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Because this is the whole thing about wearing masks. It's all about keeping your exhalations to yourself.

6:37

And so when you're sniffing, in a sense, you're sniffing in your own runny nose, because it's

6:42

rude to blow them out. JM: I prefer the nose-blowings.

6:45

[Voiceover] OF: Salome Chen, the investor and developer

6:50

from Episode 24. [Clip] SC: My parents.

6:54

For me, people are always the most important thing.

6:57

And of course, then I wouldn't miss those populists.

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OF: Oh what do you mean? Oh, populists.

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SC: Yeah, you know what I mean. OF: I do.

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And it's the same wherever you go, right? If we were in the UK, I would say the same thing about people there, right?

7:11

SC: Yeah. [Voiceover] OF: Crystyl Mo, the fine dining expert from

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Episode 26. [Clip] CM: The people and the people.

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So, Chinese are not great as strangers.

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Americans are very friendly and have a warmth to them, that you can have some kind of friendly

7:33

interaction with a stranger, which I think makes just walking around the city feel like

7:40

more of a community. And yet, Chinese - while they can be quite cold and selfish to strangers - they are so

7:50

warm and generous as soon as you are on any kind of friendly terms with them.

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You go to their house, and they will cook you a banquet and take care of you.

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That kind of warmth and generosity is something that struck me as a student when I first went

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to China and lived in 南京 [Nánjīng].

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And so I would say that I don't miss being a stranger in China.

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But I do miss being a friend.

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OF: Lovely. [Voiceover] OF: Alex Shoer, the clean energy entrepreneur

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from Episode 11. [Clip] AS: Random conversations with strangers.

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About the simplest and most mundane things.

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You know, in the U.S., everyone asks “How are you?”

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But they don't actually want to know. In China, they want to know, they're like “Tell me everything.

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Where are you from? What colour hair does your mother have?”

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You know they wanna go more and more. The simple conversations that you have with strangers.

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OF: And what about the things that you would miss the least?

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AS: Yeah, it's very simple.

8:48

It's air pollution. I really, really, really disliked it.

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The AQI was over 900 one time.

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[Voiceover] OF: Douglon Tse, the island businessman from

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Episode 15. [Clip] DT: I’ll miss the energy.

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Because you can tell that people are still hopeful and optimistic, and not jealous and

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full of hatred. I won't miss the pollution.

9:12

[Voiceover] OF: Sean Harmon, the beer company CEO from

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Episode 09. [Clip] SH: What I would miss the most is the energy.

9:23

It's just so powerful here. If you push, and you have a great product and a great plan, and you put it to action,

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things can happen. And people work hard.

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And it's fun, it’s addicting, that sort of energy where you feel like anything's possible.

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Then the other side of that question is, it's got to be the pollution.

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And it's not only the air pollution.

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For me, it's also the noise pollution.

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You know the power drill, my boss used to call that ‘the birds of Shanghai’, because

9:52

you don't hear birds that often but you do hear that power drill frequently.

9:56

OF: But those two things that you've said… you don't get this energy, this growth, this

10:01

movement, without the sound of a growing city, right?

10:03

SH: Exactly, and that’s why I'm still here. It evens itself out.

10:07

[Voiceover] OF: Seth Harvey, the education coach from

10:11

Episode 19. [Clip] SH: What would I miss?

10:14

Man, have you ever tried to take a taxi in New York City?

10:17

OF: Ah. SH: It's like $30 to put your hand on the handle.

10:20

This is such a well planned out city.

10:22

It seems so big, but I find that getting around it from one side to the other is amazing.

10:27

Like I said, you can take the bus, you can take the metro, and you can call a cab for

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like two bucks to go anywhere.

10:34

The thing I will miss the least would be, ah man, like the construction.

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That hammer drill. TA-TA-TA-TA-TA-TA-TA-TA-TA-TA!

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Like, everyone knows that, and I think everyone's had an apartment where somebody's been renovating

10:47

next door. So that's a trade-off for the amount of change and development that we enjoy, and we love.

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Sometimes that comes back, and it’s a huge negative.

10:56

[Voiceover] OF: Zhang Yuan, the performance art exhibitor

11:01

from Episode 07. [Clip] ZY: Traditional Chinese breakfast, particularly

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Shanghai breakfast. 大饼油条 [Dàbǐng yóutiáo], how do you call it in English?

11:07

You know? OF: Yeah, it’s those oily sort of sticks, right?

11:12

ZY: Yeah. OF: It’s made of dough.

11:14

ZY: Dough, yeah. For the fat one, there is sweet and salty.

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For the longer one it’s only salty, I think.

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OF: And anything that you would not miss if you left?

11:24

ZY: The noise, in the construction site.

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Wherever you go, there’s this noise.

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Something being demolished. Something being constructed.

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You move to a new house, and your neighbour is renovating…

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ach! In China, I really don’t think I could hear myself.

11:44

[Voiceover] OF: Jiyoung, the transgender teacher from

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Episode 30. [Clip] J: I would miss all of the advocates, who

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always inspire me, day to day.

11:57

I will not miss having to hide my identity at work.

12:04

So, yeah… [Voiceover] OF: Noxolo Bhengu, the African community organiser

12:09

from Episode 14. [Clip] NB: WeChat Pay, I would miss the most.

12:13

OF: Oh yeah. NB: I love not like carrying money.

12:15

There’s these conveniences here that I believe are five years, 10 years ahead of other parts

12:22

in the world. The one thing I will not miss is not being able to see the sky.

12:32

It never gets old, whenever I get home, I’m like a little kid just lost in wonder.

12:36

I’m like “Oh my goodness, the sky is so blue.

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I can actually see stars”.

12:42

And I can taste the air when I land in Durban.

12:45

You land by the ocean. You can just taste the sea salt.

12:49

And the air just hits you differently, man.

12:52

So that's the one thing I will not miss, is walking outside and not seeing the sky.

12:56

[Voiceover] OF: Cocosanti, the drag performer from Episode

13:01

05. [Clip] C: Same answer for both.

13:04

It's a combination of three things Taobao, 美团 [Měituán], and 嘀嘀[Dídí].

13:10

Once I go back home to the U.S., I'm going to be so sad that I have to start using Amazon,

13:16

or I can't order food randomly in the middle of the night, without paying a surcharge of

13:21

like 500元 [Yuán], you know, or getting a taxi for the price of a cup of coffee.

13:28

And I get it, I understand why.

13:30

But my god, it's so convenient.

13:33

And I hate that I've adapted to it so well.

13:37

OF: Oh, this is why it's also the thing you won't miss.

13:39

C: Oh, it makes me a monster.

13:42

Yeah. I’m coming home from the club, “Oh, I have this in my cart”.

13:44

It's been in my cart for maybe like five weeks.

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It's time to buy it. I'll message the seller and tell them “Hey, can you send this tomorrow, because I really

13:52

need it now”. But I don’t.

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I don't, I don't ever need it. I never need it.

13:58

I just want it. [Voiceover] OF: Louise Roy, the childbirth and lactation

14:05

specialist from Episode 06.

14:08

[Clip] LR: Taobao. I love Taobao, I've bought so much on Taobao over the years.

14:14

I love, just the concept of you can get anything.

14:17

OF: Yeah LR: Anything.

14:19

What would I miss the least?

14:21

Actually, I think what I would miss the least is when people, kind of like, ‘Chinasplain’

14:27

to me. OF: Oh god.

14:29

LR: You know, like the ‘Chinasplaining.’ And then if I have a difference of opinion - that's, you know, gleaned from 15 years

14:34

of experience - I've been brainwashed.

14:37

[Voiceover] OF: Katherine Wong, the Peruvian healer from

14:41

Episode 04. [Clip] KW: Online shopping.

14:45

It's mostly for groceries. It is so easy.

14:48

So efficient. You get your groceries within one hour.

14:53

In Peru, there are no such things.

14:56

So my mother had to call the lady from the little shop to ask “Do you have this?

15:01

Do you have that?”

15:04

And if she would say “Yes, I have this bread”.

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“Okay, which brand?” “I have this brand, this brand”.

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So it would take a long time.

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OF: A great example.

15:13

And what about the thing that you miss the least? KW: The fast pace of life.

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You're sucked into this energy of going fast.

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[Voiceover] OF: Murray King, the public affairs leader

15:27

from Episode 29. [Clip] MK: The most is the excitement of every day.

15:34

Every day, something is happening, I learn something, I'm challenged in some way, I also

15:39

feel like it can contribute in some way.

15:41

I just feel like it's where everything's happening.

15:44

So that's what I would miss the most.

15:47

What I would miss the least is the fast pace.

15:49

I don't know if that makes any sense.

15:52

But when I do get out of the country - and when I go to my comfort zone, to France or

15:57

somewhere else - you know, it's really nice to not have a fast pace.

16:01

And every so often you need to kind of recharge your batteries, I think that's obvious.

16:05

And the problem is, when I'm there I miss the fast pace after a couple of weeks; when

16:10

I'm here after a few months, I need a break from the fast pace.

16:13

So I'm never going to be completely happy in either.

16:16

[Voiceover] OF: Jamie Barys, the street food expert from

16:21

Episode 02. [Clip] JB: Food.

16:24

Food, food, food… Sichuan noodles, that would be so hard.

16:28

OF: What about anything that you wouldn't miss?

16:30

JB: That’s tough because I feel like that's a coin that has two sides, whenever it happens.

16:36

You know, a lot of times, I’ll take the subway and get pushed around and jostled around

16:40

a little bit, and it's really annoying. But then I go to a wet market, and an 85 year old woman shoves me out of the way because

16:46

I'm standing in front of the daikon radish that she really wants, and that just tickles

16:50

me. So there are things that annoy me in the moment.

16:53

But then on the flip side, if you understand why it's happening, it just… you can get

16:57

over it really easily. OF: Yeah.

17:00

[Voiceover] OF: Michelle Qu, the improvisational comedian

17:05

from Episode 20. [Clip] MQ: Oh, if I left China, of course I would

17:09

miss my theatre, and my partners.

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OF: Right. MQ: Yeah.

17:14

OF: And what about the thing that you will miss the least?

17:16

MQ: When you get off a metro, or when you get off an elevator, somebody just stands

17:25

in the middle of the gate. You're face to face.

17:29

You want to kiss me?

17:32

OF: Yeah! Why did they do that?

17:35

MQ: Yeah, I really hate that.

17:38

[Voiceover] OF: Danma Jyid, the Tibetan social enterprise

17:42

leader from Episode 10. [Clip] DJ: I’d really miss Tibetan food.

17:47

Momo. Momo is similar to dumplings, but we also have, like, steamed momo.

17:53

Inside you have fillings. OF: Like what?

17:55

Like… DJ: Yak meat.

17:57

OF: Oh, I knew it! I knew it.

17:59

DJ: Yeah, yak meat and herbs sometimes, yeah.

18:01

OF: Nice. DJ: Yeah.

18:03

OF: What about, what would you miss the least?

18:05

DJ: Snow. OF: Snow.

18:07

DJ: Yeah, we get heavy snow, and the road is all blocked.

18:13

[Voiceover] OF: DJ BO, the DJ from Episode 23.

18:19

[Clip] BO: OK. Shanghai is such an international city.

18:24

And it's a place where I've met Dutch people, and Belgian people, and Italian people, and

18:28

Japanese people. I'm able to engage with so many different cultures and people here.

18:34

You can find some of that in New York and in London, but in Shanghai it just manifests

18:39

itself so much into the legacy and the history of what Shanghai is.

18:44

Least interesting, it’s that sort of policy of not engaging with things that you find

18:51

in China. The idea that when there's a conflict, everyone stands back and watches.

18:57

When there's a problem, you just kind of move away from things, and you don't engage with

19:03

things. [Voiceover] OF: Stéphane Wilmet, the head of consumer

19:09

insights at L'Oreal from Episode 01.

19:11

[Clip] SW: I think I would miss the ‘ding ding

19:16

ding’, you know, those tricyclers, the peddlers on their tricycles.

19:21

I would miss this music.

19:24

They’re recyclers on tricycles.

19:27

And in this modern city, with so many millions of people that is so tech-advanced, this little

19:33

music, it comes from another time.

19:36

But I will remember that music.

19:38

I actually followed one day, with my youngest son, I mean with his consent, we followed

19:43

one such person in his day.

19:46

And they have a very tough day.

19:49

So this music is also bittersweet, in a way.

19:53

What I would miss the least?

19:56

Everybody knows everything about you.

19:58

Everything. You know, what time you went out, what time you came back, what time your kids, what did

20:03

they do, why you're this, why you’re that…

20:05

And so at some point, it becomes too much.

20:08

[Voiceover] OF: Chang Chihyun, the humanities professor

20:13

from Episode 03. [Clip] CC: I would miss the culture.

20:19

That's an abstract thing. You can see I'm quite westernised.

20:24

The way I think, the wine, the scotch, whatsoever.

20:29

But I still like to live this sort of cultural context.

20:34

I wouldn't miss the bureaucracy.

20:37

It can be extremely efficient, and it can be extremely outdated and slow.

20:42

OF: Yeah. CC: You want to make the first case, the exception, you are going to suffer, mate.

20:51

[Voiceover] OF: Casey Hall, the fashion journalist from

20:55

Episode 22. [Clip] OF: Next question, if you left China, what

20:57

would you miss the most, and what would you miss the least? CH: 煎饼 [Jiānbing].

21:00

I’ve said for so many years that people should be exporting 煎饼 [jiānbing] into

21:02

the West, because we foreigners all love that stuff.

21:05

And it's a wonderful hangover cure.

21:07

I think I would not miss… If I never had to go to a Chinese bank again, I would be a happy chappy.

21:13

OF: You have to take a whole file of paperwork, don’t you?

21:16

CH: You have to take a whole file of paperwork, and half a day, and even then I'll probably

21:21

have to go home and get more paperwork. OF: Yep.

21:25

[Voiceover] OF: Wendy Saunders, the architect from Episode

21:29

12. [Clip] WS: I have to say the spontaneity of living

21:38

in China, and the way things go so fast.

21:41

OK, on the one hand it makes you very tired, and it has a lot of other things to it.

21:45

But I will miss that. It’s so lively, and it's so flexible.

21:49

And I remember when I first arrived, I thought that was so amazing, that you don't have to

21:54

make appointments weeks ahead with people.

21:57

You don't have to… Your work environment, it’s not so planned out.

22:00

That, I think, is something quite special.

22:03

OF: That's well said. What about anything you'd miss the least?

22:06

WS: Yeah, the fact of being misunderstood, and the frustration of it, I think.

22:13

You're always the foreigner, right? You're always a little bit, the one on the outside.

22:17

That also gives a certain freedom, and a pleasure to it.

22:21

I'm not gonna lie about that. But there's also sometimes something alienating about it.

22:27

[Voiceover] OF: Michael Kinsey, the fire engineer from

22:31

Episode 25. [Clip] MK: I think I would miss the convenience of

22:36

living here. You can find almost anyone to do anything.

22:40

Like fix things almost at any time of the day, or any day of the week.

22:44

Actually, last night, I forgot my keys.

22:47

And I know a guy who will come at any time. And it was slightly late at night, and he would just get up, come, and then he would

22:52

come and open the door, and that was it.

22:54

OF: Wow. MK: I think one of the things I would miss the least is the language barrier, and certainly

22:59

being able to connect with certain people on certain levels.

23:02

Conversely, it motivates me to want to learn more.

23:05

[Voiceover] OF: Vittorio Franzese, the lawyer from Episode

23:10

27. [Clip] VF: It's something that I have always thought

23:14

about China. By living here, you realise how easy life is.

23:19

Sometimes you have a problem, and it gets solved just by knowing someone that has dealt

23:25

with it before. Suddenly, it's not any more a problem.

23:29

I feel like I do a lot of things in one day, which I wouldn't be able to do back home where

23:37

life is so chill, and you need to take your time for every single thing you want to complete.

23:44

On the other side, something that could look super straightforward and super easy to get

23:50

would become impossible for reasons that are unknown to you.

23:55

Because you have to pass through some authorisation or procedure that suddenly becomes slow and

24:05

you cannot explain why. And you just find yourself in front of a problem that you didn't expect to encounter.

24:11

China’s not a compromise. So you can get everything fast, or… impossible.

24:17

[Outro] OF: And there you have it, the 阴 [yīn]

24:21

and 阳 [yáng] episode. China is so liveable, so welcoming.

24:26

And it’s the exact opposite of those things too.

24:28

There’s a rough and a smooth in every country and in every culture, and indeed in every

24:33

person. So let’s make it our job in 2022 to spread this message of nuance, balance and equanimity

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to as many people as possible.

24:43

Mosaic of China is me, Oscar Fuchs, with artwork by Denny Newell.

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And we’ll be back with the next compilation episode in two weeks, see you then.

24:52

[Clips] SW: Thank you very much.

24:55

JB: Thank you, it’s been a pleasure. CC: My pleasure.

24:57

KW: Thank you so much. C: Oh hey, thanks.

25:00

LR: Thank you very much. ZY: Thank you.

25:02

JZ: Thank you. SH: It’s been a pleasure.

25:04

DJ: Thank you. AS: Thank you.

25:06

WS: Thank you. VD: Thanks.

25:08

NB: Thank you. DT: Thank you.

25:10

CC: Thank you. BD: Hehe, thank you.

25:12

JM: Thank you very much. SH: My pleasure, thanks.

25:14

MQ: Thank you. AJ: Thanks a lot.

25:16

CH: Thank you. BO: Thank you very much.

25:18

SC: Thank you. MK: Thank you.

25:20

CM: Thank you. VF: Thank you so much.

25:22

ZH: Thank you for having me. MK: It was my pleasure.

25:24

J: Thank you so much.