0:00

Welcome to Movie Crush, a production of I

0:02

Heart Radio. Hey

0:29

everybody, and welcome to Movie Crush Friday

0:31

Interview Edition, Live in

0:33

Person Edition. Everybody. This is the

0:36

first time I've actually met with a guest face to

0:38

face since Boy,

0:40

I'm trying to remember who the last person even was. I

0:42

have to go back in the old calendar, but it was sometime

0:45

and probably February or March. But

0:48

today I had a great opportunity

0:51

to sit down and talk to Todd Garner.

0:54

Todd is the name you may

0:56

not know, but if you start looking

0:58

at his IMDb pay g will be a little

1:00

intimidated because Todd is a movie producer and

1:03

he has his fingerprints on a

1:05

lot of big movies. He

1:08

was the i think co president

1:10

of production at Disney for ten years, and

1:13

just a freelance producer for many many

1:15

years I think after that, and before that,

1:17

he's been doing it for a couple of decades. Movies

1:20

like thirteen going on thirty and Triple

1:23

X and the

1:25

The Mall Cop series, which we have a fun little

1:27

talk about, and h boy,

1:30

you know, once we kind of got into the discussion, I

1:32

realized just how many movies Todd

1:34

has worked on. It's great and we had never

1:36

met before, but he was in town working on a movie.

1:39

He is the stuff you should know and movie crush listener,

1:41

and he reached out just to say hi, and

1:43

I said, let's get you in the studio. Turns

1:46

out Todd is a great guy and he picked a great

1:48

movie, one of my favorite all time comedies, the

1:51

movie from One starring Dudley

1:53

Moore and Liza Minnelli and Sir John

1:55

giel Good. Arthur, such

1:58

a great film and we really

2:00

had a great talk about it. So without any

2:02

further delay, here we go with

2:04

the super cool, super nice

2:06

my new pal Todd Garner on Arthur.

2:13

I'm sitting here in person for the first time

2:16

in sixteen months with

2:19

somebody with a human and this is Todd Garner, everyone

2:22

movie producer of Boy,

2:25

Black Hawk Down, Anger, Management thirteen

2:28

going on thirty, one of my all time guilty

2:30

pleasures. Great. I love that funny

2:32

story about that. I can't wait to hear it. Triple X,

2:35

the new Mortal Kombat movie, many many, many

2:37

more films, all very big

2:39

studio films, and you're

2:43

I think only my second producer.

2:46

I had Merril Poster in which is a lot of fun and

2:49

uh, I'd love to talk a little bit about producing,

2:52

because I think there's such And by the way,

2:55

you're you're very sneaky because I didn't

2:57

know you had a podcast. You didn't even tell me that until

2:59

I found it yesterday called

3:01

the producer's guy, Todd Garner in Hollywood's

3:04

Elite, which is great. I listened

3:06

to the Cassiean l

3:08

how do you say It Always? Episode

3:11

this morning and the Walter Hill

3:13

episode, which is just fantastic.

3:16

His voice is just incredible, oh man, And I

3:18

was glad to hear you like gushing.

3:20

And I was like, all right, I don't feel bad because when

3:22

I have people on here I love. I'm

3:24

very sick of fantic too, and I'm

3:26

just like, you're the best, and I love everything you've

3:29

done. And it's like breaks all the rules of quote

3:31

unquote interviewing. But you were all

3:33

over Walter Hill. Yeah. I loved it. Yeah,

3:35

I gush over. I mean I

3:38

started it because this very question, like

3:40

what does the producer do? Yeah, and obviously

3:43

the news is not great for producers really,

3:45

yeah, and that was kind of one of the reasons behind it,

3:47

right, Yeah, I mean there was there was numerous reasons that

3:49

was. One is to clear up misconceptions

3:51

about what producers do, the real producers

3:53

that you know, not the twenty five year

3:55

old guys that are at bars passing out you

3:58

know, cards, because that's one side of it. And then the Harvey

4:00

Wine scenes clearly the other side of it. Yeah, it's

4:02

the working producers that make a make

4:04

a living and really love what they do in our on

4:07

set and do the work. And then and

4:09

then weirdly, here in Atlanta,

4:11

I was shooting a movie and uh,

4:13

Neil Maritz, who has done all The Fast

4:15

and the Furious is and my other

4:18

friend Marty Bowen, who has done um

4:21

a ton of movies, including the Twilight series.

4:25

Uh, we were all sitting around having a

4:27

beer and and and you

4:29

know, I heard complaining like,

4:31

oh man, the business is over, like we're screwed,

4:33

we're dinosaurs. And I realized

4:36

I had four movies shooting, Marty had five,

4:38

and numerits like has was doing Passengers

4:41

with Chris Pett and Lawrence as well

4:43

as having The Fast. Like, guys, if

4:45

if we're if we're putting that rhetoric

4:47

out there that the business is over, what chance does

4:50

any students have because

4:52

because you know, most of the entertainment press

4:55

dines in in and you

4:57

know, doom saying because there's

4:59

so much change right now in the business, and in terms

5:01

of the way that the business is so rapidly

5:04

changing, in terms of it's it's all content

5:06

now in quotes and yeah,

5:09

and and and I think that just scares the ship out of people

5:11

with people don't understand it. But

5:14

then you really look at the pure numbers

5:16

of it. When you know, when Netflix is spending

5:18

a billion dollars in content, and

5:20

that was that was, you know, the

5:22

big shark in the water. Everybody was terrified that

5:25

was going to end the movie business and the theatrical

5:27

going experiences over and then the pandemic hits,

5:29

and and I just really wanted to counteract that in

5:31

the way you're saying the sycophanic gushing.

5:34

I really am in a positive person about

5:36

the business. I've been doing this for thirty years, and

5:40

I you know, I don't have a paycheck. I only

5:42

get paid if a movie gets made. So I should

5:44

probably be the most fearful negative

5:46

person right out there. And I just couldn't

5:48

do it because I remember being a

5:51

young person coming up and wanting

5:53

to be in the business and reading and

5:55

studying the business and

5:57

hearing the same doom bullshit then

6:00

and so as a history of the

6:02

movie business and really reading a

6:04

ton and a ton of history about it,

6:07

you just realize it's the same stuff. You

6:09

know. And when when television

6:12

started, movie businesses over. In

6:14

fact, we even going back sound it's over.

6:16

Nobody wants to hear actors talk. And then from

6:19

color like color is too it's

6:21

too real. Nope, that's it. Over television

6:23

for sure, it's going to kill them. It's gonna end it.

6:25

And not only did it not kill the movie business, you could actually

6:28

promote your movies on the television and sell

6:30

them to television. And then vhs,

6:32

Oh boy, that's it, right, you're just gonna record that's

6:34

an in DVD. Oh god, pirating like

6:36

it looks as good as the movie Pirating

6:39

DVD. There, that's it. And it just never

6:41

happens. It's just like the little engine that could.

6:44

And so I just wanted to say to anybody

6:47

who was interested in the movie business, and for

6:49

sure young people, that

6:52

it's not just go do it, follow your

6:54

dream. I don't want to talk to anybody out of their dream.

6:56

And it's a hard business for sure, but

6:58

I just want It's always been hard, yeah, and I want to encourage

7:01

people and if I can do it, anybody again.

7:03

What was your start Like you talked about

7:06

reading about the business and wanting to get into it.

7:08

What what were you doing. I started

7:10

in theater and high school. Originally

7:13

I wanted to be an architect, and then I got

7:15

into a drafting class and I was like, this sucks too

7:18

much. I can't do this. It's just straight lines and

7:20

protractors, really nerdy

7:22

people with me. And then my buddy said, you gotta

7:24

come try this improv class

7:26

in in in theater and it was just awesome.

7:29

I could run around and be funny and stupid,

7:32

great looking girls in the theater department. Was

7:34

so much better than drafting, and

7:37

I just fell in love with it. And so at first

7:39

kind of thought, well, maybe I'll be a director. I don't know,

7:41

maybe a be a stand up comedian.

7:43

I don't know, I'll figure this out. What year

7:45

was this. I graduated my school and eighty three,

7:47

Okay. I was in the San Fernando Valley and none

7:50

of my entire families in

7:52

the business. Nobody knew anything about the In fact, my

7:54

father stilt to this day, we'll send

7:56

me an article like, great article I'm producing. I'm

7:58

like, okay, he says, and you know,

8:00

just doesn't still waiting for the other, you

8:02

know, my finally, my I have a degree in economics

8:04

and film from Occidental College and he's still waiting

8:06

for that econ degree to kick in. I lived

8:08

in the ego rog yeah, yeah, yeah, and

8:11

so uh then I then

8:13

I thought maybe would be a producer, but I didn't know anything

8:15

about producing. So you know, you go and

8:17

you see movies and you read the books and about

8:19

special effects. And I made some student

8:22

films in high school and then I

8:24

went talk to Old College, which didn't have any film

8:26

classes at all. But I got an internship.

8:29

Back in the day when the industrial

8:32

video was huge, they

8:34

were spending so much money on because it's like

8:36

this new thing where you could like teach people

8:38

through video, right, So I

8:40

got a job at Pacific bell Um

8:43

as an intern in their in their in

8:45

their you know, instructional video department.

8:47

And then I learned how to edit, and so I

8:50

really became an editor first. So I edited.

8:53

We're editing out one inch and it was

8:55

Ampex and Ampex had a

8:57

system that was called the Ampex A system which is

8:59

just base sleep meant Ampex Computerized editing,

9:02

which is really a precursor to UM

9:04

all of the new you know, software

9:06

based systems and so not

9:09

that many old timers wanted to learn. It Back in the

9:11

day was all CMX. It had thousands of

9:13

buttons that said, you know, like you know, dissolve right

9:16

cut. This was like you had

9:18

you was worked like a computer. And so

9:20

I I, you know, I worked for Playboy,

9:23

I worked for did cut music videos, I cut

9:25

it, worked for the Olympics for

9:27

so but and then I realized

9:30

I'm just sort of getting further away from what I really

9:32

want to do was produce, and

9:34

I quit and went to work at Wells

9:36

Fargo Bank, you know, because

9:39

I thought maybe I'll go to business school. And then insanely,

9:42

like the only person of my father's ever met in

9:44

the movie in the movie Business, he

9:46

was playing golf with this guy who worked at Paramount Television,

9:49

and and my background

9:51

seemed like I had wanted this job in

9:53

my whole life, because I had a degree in economics.

9:55

I worked in production and I got

9:57

a job on their Senior Hall show as his as

9:59

his Huntain at

10:01

Paramount So I was on the lot and

10:04

that really showed you, Oh my god, there's

10:06

a movie and my deals now at Paramounts

10:09

in my office is on the lot. Sounds

10:11

amazing. And I was there and you

10:13

know, played, you know, lunch, you'd go play basketball

10:15

and Jason Bateman would be there. I

10:17

realized that was it was done. And

10:19

but I did also realize I didn't know how to read a script.

10:23

So I went do you used to like

10:25

extension? And took a class from Bob Greenblad,

10:27

who was was the chairman of NBC

10:29

and then was the chairman of Warner Brothers. He was us

10:31

a story editor at Lorimer at the time and

10:34

taught me how to read a script. And

10:36

then from there I got a job as an assistant

10:39

in UH at Columbia Pictures, and

10:42

then I got my job at Disney, and I was at Disney for ten

10:44

years, and I became co president production after

10:46

ten years. It's a long

10:48

road, man, that's not It's

10:51

so easy. Yeah, And and that's the other

10:53

thing I tell people, you know, if ever I'm

10:55

like speaking in classes or whatever, it

10:57

doesn't matter. Man. The road is never

10:59

straight right ever, you know, and

11:01

especially now with podcasts

11:04

like your podcast and technology

11:06

and you can get anything on the web now

11:08

and you can you can shoot a movie on

11:10

your phone. Yeah, I had to use

11:13

Super eight such a pain in the

11:15

app and uh so

11:17

there's just the barrier to entry is almost

11:19

non existent. Now, what kind of producer

11:22

are you? Like? What is your what is your

11:24

job entail day to day, movie

11:27

to movie. Yeah, so working

11:29

in the studio system for you

11:31

know, over ten years, I

11:34

really got an edge of fast

11:36

education and what makes a good producer. Um

11:40

So I trained at the feet of Jerry

11:42

Bruckheimer and Adam Sandler and guys

11:44

like that that go to the set

11:46

every day. Are there do the

11:48

work? Um and

11:52

and are the captains of the ship? You

11:54

know? And then and then I also saw the

11:57

managers that aren't producers and the

11:59

hangers on that aren't pricers, and the people that you

12:01

know, gave a little dough, they get a producer credit.

12:03

I knew the difference, and

12:06

I really wanted to be the former, right,

12:08

beat on the ground, beat on the ground. Yeah,

12:12

it's funny. Rob wriggle Um who who

12:14

who have done a couple of things with he

12:17

he he was in the Marines and

12:19

he talks about producing like taking

12:21

the beach right, and you take the beach of foot at

12:23

a time, you know. And so if you're

12:25

not there every day and

12:27

sitting there physically, then

12:30

you don't have a voice. You really don't. I mean,

12:32

you can get a phone call from your in your office in Los

12:34

Angeles, and you can make your best

12:37

guests, but unless you're there to see the intricacies

12:39

of why this decision happened, you can't really do

12:41

it. So that's the kind of producer I wanted to be. Yeah

12:44

and um and you

12:46

know, and also just the kind of producer that was

12:49

agnostic in terms of genre. I've

12:51

done a ton of comedies because I love them, yeah, um,

12:54

and I grew up with them, which is what we're gonna talk about

12:56

today, Like you know, Stripes and Arthur and Raising

12:58

Arizona and you know, all these movies

13:01

that a lot of the Howard Hawks stuff. These

13:04

are movies that I grew up with and completely

13:06

fell in love with. So I have an affinity for

13:08

the genre, and I love the people that make those

13:10

movies. But I also wanted you

13:13

know, I worked on No Brother, Where Arn't Tho, I worked on Love,

13:16

I worked on you know, I worked on ed

13:18

Wood and I worked on a lot of all

13:20

those movies on the I done no brother yet actually

13:22

yeah yeah, and uh

13:25

and you know I love those movies. Um

13:27

not not my my biggest

13:29

strength. There's that's a you

13:32

know, it's a singular voice. And the

13:34

people that produce those movies, you

13:36

know, mostly are writer producers.

13:39

But but the people that producers movies are

13:41

really main working

13:43

to give that person their voice work

13:46

to h I mean, and and I

13:48

think I was better suited as an executive

13:51

to work in that job, to be

13:53

able to just you know, I when when the Coen Brothers,

13:55

who I'm madly in love with, came

13:57

in to pitch me O brother, they basically just said it's white

13:59

trash Home is Odyssey, And I said, right done,

14:02

I got it. I'm in like, say no more. I

14:05

mean, they can do whatever they want, though, right they

14:07

Weirdly, what's funny is at that

14:09

time because that was a touchdown picture at

14:11

the time, you know, because Disney had

14:14

bought Mirror Max and uh,

14:16

Harvey was going through crazy transition. Now

14:18

it's all now everybody knows why

14:21

insane person, But people

14:24

like you know, there were there are certain people that were

14:26

like, let's try different distributors, and

14:28

Oh Brother was a tough one for them

14:30

because it wasn't cheap. And

14:32

my boss Joe Roth at the time, he

14:34

loves filmmakers so much that

14:37

you know, Edward was a huge swing. I mean, that's

14:39

black and Wood movie but someone no

14:41

one knew about um, oh Brother, um

14:44

and punch Unk love those kind of movies. He was just

14:47

willing to just just go ahead and

14:49

give them the resources that they need

14:51

to make make them. And and a lot of

14:53

those people that work in in in that

14:55

kind of independent distribution,

14:57

as you heard from the Cassium podast,

15:00

they're really counting to nickels and dimes. You

15:02

know when you used to go into those old offices at Merrimax

15:04

in New York, they were just like final cabinets

15:07

and you know it was just like the most bare bones.

15:10

Yeah, and so they wanted to save every

15:12

penny um and and we

15:14

were, you know, we were really filmmaker

15:17

friendly at that time. You know,

15:19

you said something a second ago and

15:21

just then filmmaker friendly and Joe Roth love filmmakers.

15:25

You also hear stories about directors

15:27

who hate actors, producers who hate

15:29

writers, or filmmakers like,

15:32

what is that all about? Well,

15:35

have you ever built a house or been in any sort

15:37

of construction, Not personally, but

15:39

we renovated our house a couple

15:41

few years. Yeah, I mean generally it's

15:44

gonna go wrong. Yeah, I mean, it's always just always

15:46

happens, you know, the general

15:48

rule is going to cost twice as much, twice

15:50

as long. And when you're in

15:52

that pause, I think so much of it is

15:54

is subjective in terms of like, well, I like

15:57

my house to look like this, I like my walls

15:59

to look like I like this kind of fixtures, And

16:02

and perhaps the contractor or the designer

16:04

is like, do you really want

16:06

that concrete floor with the you know, you

16:08

know Victorian outside.

16:11

Yeah, that's why I want you. That's what I wanted, and so you

16:14

So that's the kind of way the making a movie is right,

16:16

because everybody has the movie in their head when

16:18

they come in. Everybody, I don't care if you're the sound guy.

16:21

You know, I can't tell you how many times I've

16:23

been on a set

16:26

and anybody comes in this is not the way I

16:28

saw that set, because

16:30

they're all reading the script, not the way

16:32

I saw this at all. And and

16:34

and I think that there's a there's a

16:38

inherent in human beings, just an inherent insecurity.

16:41

And so the insecurity is this

16:44

is what I thought, And your insecurity

16:47

lead you to go this is the way it should be.

16:50

And um, I've

16:52

done it so long. I know that feeling.

16:55

I have it every day on the set where

16:57

you go, that's not the way I said,

16:59

Right, you have to just kind of go, okay,

17:02

but you know this will this

17:04

will be fine, you know, unless

17:06

it's not. Though, how do you draw that distinction if

17:09

your gut? Your gut is really pretty

17:12

telling. Jim Brooks um

17:14

had on his has on his monitor when he

17:16

any films. And I learned this from Nancy

17:18

Myers. She just has gut on

17:21

her monitor and she she says she got that from Jim

17:23

Brooks. And it's just this feeling you get

17:25

when so I'll give you a perfect example.

17:27

There's a scene in this movie and

17:29

I was watching it and I had an idea

17:31

and a lot was going on. We were late

17:34

rain, you know, are they shooting in Atlanta?

17:37

Really fun with the lightning every every day,

17:40

So like a lot going on, Like it doesn't

17:42

matter, it's gonna be fine. Is this what you're working on now. Yeah,

17:44

moo working on a movie right now called Senior Year with Rebel

17:46

Wilson and a

17:49

wonderful filmmaker by the name of Alex Hardcastle

17:51

who's worked in television. This is his first feature. And

17:54

so you know, I'm very aware

17:56

that, you know, I have a lot of opinions,

17:59

and I'm going to try to do my best to help him make

18:01

the best movie he can know and and Rebel

18:03

to make the best I did isn't romantic with

18:05

her as well. And so I had this idea,

18:07

and I should probably say this idea,

18:10

but I already know if I go say this idea, it's going to require

18:13

a prop and everybody's going to be like, really,

18:15

I mean and I and I go, I'll be fine.

18:18

And I went to sleep, and I woke up next morning. I don't know, fuck

18:20

it, I'm I should have said something. And I went to the director

18:22

and I go, wouldn't have been better

18:24

if the scene would have had this thing in it? And

18:26

he goes, oh my god, I wish you would have said that,

18:29

because even like thematically it's it's it

18:31

would have worked better. And so we're

18:33

going to reshoot it, you know, Yeah,

18:35

and it's not that it was wrong. It's just

18:37

that there was a better idea, and a

18:39

better idea that's not it's low impact enough

18:41

because it's a tiny little moment and it'll

18:43

be very easy to read. So you do the math and see

18:46

the math, and you go, it's not going to be He's not

18:48

going to disrupt the whole world. But

18:50

there are times when you

18:52

know, if something look hopefully

18:54

again, boots on the ground right, If you're a good producer,

18:57

you've been on the tech scouts, you're not walking into a building

18:59

going wait a minute, I didn't this is This

19:01

isn't a church. We're supposed to be in a you

19:04

know, in a school. What the hell is happening? You know, like, well, dude,

19:06

you should have been on the scout, the four scouts.

19:08

We did, so at some point you have

19:10

to be in on it early enough.

19:13

And inevitably is always going to be things. It's a visual

19:15

medium, so it's always gonna be things where

19:17

a joke or or a scene or

19:20

or a character description is very well written,

19:23

but visually it's impossible to get

19:25

what you read right. It's either it's

19:28

just too complicated, it's the audience

19:30

won't it's not clean. So there's a lot

19:32

of times where something's written and it's great and you see

19:34

it on its feet you're like, this isn't this isn't

19:37

working the way we thought, and then you just have to adjust um.

19:40

And that's and and so you know, a

19:42

good producer will

19:44

help the person make their movie and

19:47

and support them and

19:49

be and in a lot give them all the tools

19:51

to be the best they can be, to to allow them

19:53

to just throw the ball. Now

19:56

with the first time filmmaker, is that something you enjoy

19:58

or is this I've I gotta

20:00

say I've never done the math, so this is I'm

20:02

just gonna say this, and it's probably total bullshit, but I feel

20:04

like I've worked with more first time directors than anybody

20:06

really well, because when I

20:08

was doing when I was working with Jerry Bruckheimer,

20:11

when I when I was at Disney, I worked

20:13

on pretty much every movie from with Jerry,

20:15

from Crimson Tied through Pirates

20:18

of the Caribbean, that whole runny he had at Disney.

20:20

I was there those little movies. Yeah, and he loves

20:22

work. He loved working with quote unquote

20:24

first time directors because most of the time they were

20:27

commercial directors. So

20:29

he started with Ridley and Scott and Tony Scott,

20:31

Michael Bay and all these guys and

20:33

really fell in love with them because you know, those

20:36

guys have probably shot more film than anybody,

20:38

you know, because they're just and they're trying different lenses

20:40

and they know how to be economical was shot. So

20:43

it really worked really well for the Bruckheimer

20:46

Um and uh

20:49

and so I worked with a lot of film

20:51

first time filmmakers there, and comedy generally

20:54

inspires a lot of first timers, like even

20:56

Arthur Steve Gordon was the first time filmmaker,

20:59

right, And it generally

21:01

you get a lot of guys coming from TV or

21:04

writers that break. So my last movie

21:06

I did was called Vacation Friends with John

21:08

Cena and Rayl Howry. Clay Tarver

21:11

was the first time filmmaker, but

21:13

he had run Silicon Valley. He

21:15

was a writer that you know went on to run

21:17

that show. Oh yeah. So it's like they're not like

21:20

first time in the sense that they just like decided

21:22

I was a farmer now, right. They

21:25

have tons of experience, but not tons of experience,

21:28

um for you know, maintaining

21:30

a storyline for two hours, which is which is a different

21:33

skill than even working in television. What about

21:35

have you ever had like a literally like a fresh out

21:37

of film school experience with someone

21:39

or um, not

21:41

that I can recall off top

21:44

of my head. I don't think so, but um Yeah,

21:47

generally those those filmmakers

21:50

generally start in the independent world. You don't

21:52

really get a lot of people come around

21:54

a film school that go right into a big studio

21:56

movie. They usually that

21:59

is usually reserve for a cast in. And those

22:01

guys that will go raise the money a couple million bucks

22:03

for somebody to do that. Yeah, And I imagine, especially

22:05

with the first time ors, it's it

22:08

goes both ways. Like you have to instill confidence

22:10

in them so that they believe in themselves. But

22:13

for someone like you that's boots on the

22:15

ground, they probably have a lot of confidence

22:18

in you. You're not one of those producers

22:20

that sweeps in there firing off

22:22

notes and ideas, doesn't know what the fun is

22:24

going on. Yeah. I feel

22:26

like a really good producers like Homeland

22:28

Security, if no explosions happened,

22:30

you've done your job. Unfortunately, you'll

22:33

never know, right, And so I always try to

22:35

stay a mile ahead of everybody so

22:37

that there's no it's

22:39

always a soft place to land. You're

22:42

not like going, what the hell is happening?

22:44

So you're clearing the path out and the machete

22:46

and exactly right. And

22:49

and especially actors, I

22:52

just want to make sure they're comfortable. You know. Look, it's

22:55

it's it's a it's a lot. It's

22:57

a lot to ask somebody to leave their home for months

22:59

at a time. It's a lot to ask somebody to

23:01

be vulnerable enough to put themselves on a screen that's

23:03

a hundred feet wide and sixty ft tall. Um.

23:06

It's a lot to get them to be emotional,

23:09

and it's it's a lot to be an actor.

23:12

And so I really

23:14

just want to make sure it's they're gonna have the best experience

23:16

they've ever had on a movie. They're gonna be well taken

23:18

care of, well fed, well rested. They're

23:21

gonna be comfortable, They're not going to be dealing

23:23

with a bunch of bullshit. And just then

23:26

you're just free. It's like being a pitching

23:28

coach, right, just free to let the guy throw

23:30

the ball as fast as hard as you can. So interesting

23:32

to hear you talk about it. I don't I don't think a lot

23:34

of people would say that they would

23:36

expect a producer like one of the more important

23:39

qualities to be compassion and empathy.

23:41

I know. That's why I want to do that part of

23:43

it. If you're good, that's why I want to do my podcast.

23:46

I mean the people that I've got

23:48

a hundred and eighty hours. If anybody wants

23:50

to learn how to be a producer of just the best in the

23:52

business, everybody, and I can recommend it. I

23:54

listened to those two episodes this morning. It's great, Yeah,

23:56

anybody I can think of, and and people

23:59

at first making fun of me, It's like, oh, great, Todd, you just

24:01

talking to your friends for an hour, and then as

24:04

it went along, it's true. They're

24:06

all my you know, all associates,

24:08

if not friends. And

24:10

it was deliberate that way because I wanted

24:12

people to be intimate and people to not

24:14

just give me the route. Yeah, you know, you

24:16

go to the set that to really talk about

24:19

what inspired them and how they got into the business

24:21

and how they think about movies and

24:24

how they think about the nuts and bolts

24:26

of the business, because it is you know, I

24:28

was in Australia for five months shooting Mortal Kombat.

24:30

It was hard. I quite enjoyed that movie. That's

24:33

how we met. Well, this is the greatest

24:35

thing is I admire you so much and I and I hear

24:38

you talk about movies, and I generally

24:40

agree with everything you say. And you have a

24:42

pretty high browed taste. And so

24:44

when you as soon as you guys started talking

24:46

about video games, and I was like ship

24:49

and then it was like you went Mortal Combat, like, oh god,

24:51

I know it's coming. I just you know, because it's just that

24:53

thing. You go, oh please please,

24:56

and you go you've seen the Mortal Kombat, but we know, like,

24:58

oh god, no it was and I'm like, oh,

25:00

thank god, thank

25:02

you. I really enjoyed it. I thought it was a lot of

25:04

fune. It looked great. There was enough,

25:07

I mean they captured the video game stuff. That was enough

25:09

there for the video game fans in

25:11

the Easter eggs to really get into. And

25:14

you can talk about that for hours. It was a tough one.

25:16

I mean it's a really tough but yeah,

25:18

but being in Australia for five months away from it, you know,

25:20

half a world away from your family where it was. Yeah,

25:23

it was in Adelaide, Australia, Okay, I have

25:25

empathy for everybody because I'm doing it again,

25:28

you know, and I have I

25:30

have a wife and two kids, and I

25:33

know what it's like to be away for from

25:35

your family and to be lonely and to be sad.

25:38

And that's not indicative for

25:40

good comedy. So unless

25:42

everybody's feeling um

25:45

supported and taking care of it's

25:47

hard to get good stuff out of people, right

25:49

And I you know, and and I every movie, I

25:51

go, well, I've seen it all now, you

25:53

know. So most

25:56

of the time, if something happens

25:58

to somebody emotionally or

26:00

they're going through something, I can say

26:03

I've seen it before and help them because

26:05

you have to be unflappable. Yeah.

26:07

Yeah, you can't be the one that's freaking

26:10

out, or if you do, you go

26:12

into a separate room and do it alone. Yeah

26:14

yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot of

26:17

a lot of just being by myself and my condo

26:19

silently freaking out. But yeah,

26:22

um, you know, for sure, you don't want

26:24

to look at the fireman and have him going, I

26:26

don't know what is happening, where's

26:29

the hose? You don't want it. You want the guy to

26:31

go like, let's go, even if he's freaking

26:33

out and so um

26:35

again going back and reading like a

26:37

lot of Hollywood history and reading about those old

26:39

timers and those guys that really did it, they're

26:42

just those guys, you know, they're just they're

26:44

just the guys that just did

26:46

nothing bother him. Yeah. You know the

26:48

guy who you know, Bob, Bob Greenhead

26:50

who produced Arthur. He

26:53

produced all the Woody Allen movies. Really

26:55

he's a New York guy. They

26:57

had their offices in New York. You know, they would

26:59

double bark thing be shot in

27:01

New York in the eighties. Many those

27:03

guys were just the guys I

27:05

really admire in terms

27:08

of just that sort of um like,

27:10

yeah, just taking the beach. Yeah, that military

27:12

idea, that's cool. Yeah.

27:22

I want to hear your thirteen going I'm thirty story.

27:24

Okay, so just this

27:28

there's a couple, there's a bunch of them, but

27:30

but not about thirteen thirty. There's always that moment

27:32

where again, this is what happened with you and I Immortal

27:34

Kombat. There's that moment where you

27:37

know, you go your movie movie prod, Yeah,

27:40

what have you done right? And you go, oh boy, here

27:42

we go, because you know it's gonna be, What do you

27:44

let when you do that? What's your go to? What are your first

27:46

three movies? Your name of your own? It just depends in the

27:48

person. If I would have met

27:50

you would have been like, you know, I did Black Down, Punch

27:52

Glove, and I did it over there? Arn't that? What else? Paul

27:55

Lark? You know? And

27:59

then but it's not so anyway, So

28:01

uh, A couple of times it's happened where

28:03

you just like one time I was this is not at

28:05

I'll tell the thirteenth story real quick. But once time I

28:07

was on a plane and they said,

28:09

oh, it's gonna be this movie. I want to say,

28:11

what the movie is it? It's gonna be this movie. It's it's

28:13

a comedy, And like, oh boy, okay, I've already seen it.

28:16

So I put my headphones on and my glasses is when

28:18

they used to have a projected the main screen. Yeah,

28:20

and this dude, this dude next to

28:23

me was laughing so hard, sixt

28:25

year old man. And I'm like in my head, going, this

28:27

movie is not I know that movie is not that fucking funny.

28:30

Like, what the hell is this guy? He's being annoying,

28:32

He's he mocking the movie this

28:35

guy. I want to kill this guy. And I took my things

28:37

off and it was maall cop and I went, I

28:40

love this guy. I'm gonna enjoy this. So

28:42

it's like, it's just this weird, tenuous

28:45

thing that my ego was, like so fragile,

28:47

right, So thirteen and thirty is this

28:50

is a it's a little bit of a personal story. So,

28:53

um, my daughter, my

28:55

wife and I lost a baby at birth, which

28:58

is why I love Settle in This Travel so

29:00

much. We told you, I told you i'd like that,

29:02

love that movie because and um,

29:05

one of the things was, you know, as we were going

29:07

through this, we were in the hospital for a couple

29:09

of days, and it happened to be New Year's Day,

29:12

and Comedy Central does this thing on New

29:14

Years Day where they put these movies up, comedies,

29:17

and you know, for briefly, like an

29:19

hour or so, my wife would be laughing and we both

29:21

kind of forget where we're at. And it's just very much about

29:23

like Sullivan's Travels when the guys are in jail watching

29:26

um, the Three Stooges. And so

29:29

I just love to make comedies. And

29:31

I don't feel bad about making comedies.

29:33

I think I can give people joy it.

29:35

It's very helpful. So my daughter

29:38

Molly, who's thirteen, she was being born

29:41

and you know, we had a high risk doctor and it's very emotional

29:43

and scared shitless and I'm just

29:46

you know, crying and just praying everything's

29:48

gonna be okay, and this nurse leans in and

29:50

goes. I just have to say, is

29:53

my favorite movie.

29:56

Thank you. I was like, this is

29:58

happening right now. Okay,

30:02

it's better than you hating

30:04

it. Yeah, that was a really good movie. And it's one

30:06

of my favorite music cues of any movie

30:09

because I'm a billy Joel fan. Yeah, and that Vienna

30:11

queue At so yeah, I

30:13

mean and identified with that kids, So I think, you

30:16

know, the younger version, and sure, I

30:18

mean that. You know, I love

30:20

that. That's why, isn't it. I

30:22

have a few I have this woman

30:25

that I've worked with a few on a few movies named Gena

30:27

Matthews. We did that movie thirteen thirty.

30:29

We did What Women Want Together, We

30:32

did Asn't a Romantic Together. We did this other movie called

30:34

All My Life Together. And so I love

30:36

making those movies because and it's

30:38

funny and I was thinking thinking about this

30:40

the other day. I have a son who's

30:42

twenty, and you know,

30:44

when I when he was growing up, I was

30:46

making Triple X, Black, Go Down

30:49

and dude movies and action movies.

30:51

And and my daughter now like even this

30:53

movie in thirteen thirty and these

30:56

and isn't a romantic I

30:58

always try to like sneak in a little sin

31:00

in there, um you know about

31:02

in the film itself, just the theme

31:04

of it, like isn't it romantic? Really is ultimately

31:07

about loving yourself and not being caught

31:09

up in the romantic comedy tropes. And

31:11

and in this movie I'm making right now called Senior

31:13

Years that way too. It's like, you don't need

31:16

anybody to be successful. You just

31:18

have to kind of do it yourself and pull yourself

31:20

up by the bootstraps and and work, work

31:22

hard, and and thirteen and thirty

31:24

was the same thing. It was like, don't try

31:26

to go for popularity, don't try

31:29

to go for the things that are vacuous, and

31:31

ye shallow, be be a real person. And

31:33

then I tell my daughter all the time, like, especially

31:36

for for for teenage girls,

31:39

you don't need everybody to like you, right if

31:41

you have to one or two really good friends

31:43

You're fine because tantas

31:46

are the only people that are going to be in your life later

31:48

on life. You're not gonna have thirty friends, you

31:50

know, pack of people. So

31:52

that's I always trying to like sneak a little aspirin

31:55

in the apple sauce that way you're a good guy

31:57

producer. I'm trying. Yeah,

32:00

I just again, like I

32:02

watch It's It's it's an interesting thing.

32:05

It must be like that's

32:07

gonna be awful and you may want to cut it out, but it must

32:09

be like being a good cop, Like

32:12

if you see like they're shitty cops

32:14

out there and you're like a good person who wants

32:16

to do right by your community. And just seeing your

32:18

whole your whole profession, just

32:20

being yeah, shipped on. That's

32:22

what I feel like about being a movie producer because like

32:24

if you google movie producer right now, nothing

32:27

good is going to come up first. I'm sure for a while

32:29

you have to go through the Google search ual and I just don't

32:32

Again, all my friends, these guys that are

32:34

that I interviewed, every person and every

32:36

man and woman that I interviewed is a good

32:39

person and and they're

32:41

making of

32:43

the ship that's out there Yeah, that's good to know. I'm

32:45

glad you're putting that message out there too. Um.

32:48

Very cool. Again the producer's guy Todd

32:50

Garner in Hollywood's elite. Uh,

32:53

if you love movies, I

32:55

mean, it's getting a peek behind the curtain is

32:57

so fun for me and I know a lot of fun for our listeners.

33:00

I appreciate you talking about that stuff. Yeah,

33:03

I mean we I talked to Jeff Probes about

33:05

catering for about forty five minutes. So if you really

33:07

want to get in the weeds deal,

33:10

well, I think about does he feed those

33:13

people for thirty nine days on that island? So

33:15

if you want to get into the weeds about producing. Josh

33:20

and I were actually on when he had his TV show,

33:22

his talk show for a little while we were on the Jeff Probe

33:24

Show. It was one of like two or three

33:27

talk shows that we ever did. It also one of two

33:29

or three episodes he did. So

33:33

Yeah, he's great. He's

33:35

the best. He's a really good friend of mine. He's probably

33:37

I think he's the best host in the

33:40

last twenty years. It was good. We used

33:42

to It's funny. We got more ops like that earlier

33:45

in our career. We don't get any

33:47

asks anymore for anything. And

33:49

maybe it's just because podcasting itself is so huge

33:52

now. Yeah, we're just in the mix of

33:55

yeah, a gazillion other people. But yeah, we

33:57

used to do talk shows and all this other stuff. And

33:59

it's so funny too. It's like it's something in the world of podcasting.

34:02

Podcasting becomes a world where you kind of kind

34:04

of stay inside of your world

34:06

too. I mean it's so big now you go

34:08

on and you go on someone else's podcast. We

34:11

were talking about Doak Shepherd earlier, like he's

34:13

just he's a huge podcast and

34:16

so you know, he doesn't need to go on anything

34:18

else. He can just go on other people's podcasts. Yeah,

34:20

so it's a lot, yeah, more fun to do that.

34:22

And because I'm kind of thinking now, it wasn't like lamenting

34:25

that I don't want to go on. I

34:28

never really, I don't know. It was always very nerve

34:30

wracking for me. So, yeah, I worked with Joe

34:32

Rogan on Here Comes to the Boom and he

34:34

was talking about yeah, and I think about doing this podcast.

34:37

I'm like, that's adorable. Yeah,

34:39

And he's like, I'm going to Denver and we get out of l A

34:41

and I get him. Now, it's cute.

34:43

What are you doing? You can have a microphone and awesome?

34:46

Oh my god. Yeah he's wealthy. Yeah

34:50

yeah, good for him. All

34:52

right, So you wanted to do raising Arizona

34:55

and uh in that rat Dak

34:57

Shepherd took it from you,

35:00

and I think you put out a couple of more. But as

35:02

soon as you said Arthur, I jumped on

35:04

it because and this

35:06

is no Lie Todd. I think from

35:09

the age eleven two,

35:12

probably eighteen or nineteen, it was my

35:14

most scene movie. When I got

35:16

into college, I started, you know, like spinal tapping

35:19

with saddles, all these movies I watched over and over and over.

35:21

But um, I h

35:24

HBO ran it. It It was one of those HBO movies for

35:27

me. Didn't see it in the theater. And

35:29

I was an HBO kid who did

35:31

nothing but sit around and watch movies or

35:33

MTV, and Arthur

35:36

was one of those movies. I thought it was the funniest

35:38

fucking thing I had ever seen in my life. And

35:41

by the way, and it holds up, totally holds

35:43

up. And what's fascinating is I

35:46

I didn't even have HBO. My I

35:48

lived in San Fernando Valley, and so my one

35:51

friend had a VHS machine, so

35:53

we just went back and forth between Stripes, which

35:55

also came out in the and

35:57

and Arthur, and just went back and forth

35:59

and back and forth and backup. I wasn't allowed to watch Stripes. Really,

36:02

that's a fascinating by the way. You know that Arthur was PG at

36:04

the time. Then it's interesting because

36:06

it was pre PG thirteen, so

36:09

I guess it wouldn't have been our really. I

36:11

guess maybe now it might have been. But I mean,

36:13

you can't even make it now. First

36:16

of all, within the first minute of the

36:18

movie, he's picking up a prostitute and he drives

36:20

hammered twice.

36:22

Well, it's funny as an adult

36:24

seeing it last night. I hadn't seen it

36:26

in a while. But it is

36:28

interesting to see a movie, a

36:30

comedy about an alcoholic and

36:32

someone who's got a really, really bad, bad

36:35

drinking problem, and it's so

36:37

funny and he drives drunk, and like, there's

36:40

no way you could do that stuff. Now, No, what's interesting

36:42

about that movie? Yes, but

36:45

first all, it shouldn't work. Should nothing

36:47

about it. It shouldn't work. You have

36:50

the it's the strangest catalysm and early is the strangest

36:52

piece of casting, which is beautiful, works great,

36:54

and it was every winger for it, which would have been amazing

36:57

too. But and and again, playing

36:59

drunk in a calm it is hard now

37:02

if you go back and look at really just the way

37:04

they made that movie. Steve Gordon was

37:07

the first time he was a writer director

37:09

script was around forever. The only other

37:11

script feature script he wrote was the one and only

37:13

With with Henry Winkler, who

37:15

played basically gorgeous George. Yeah. So he had

37:17

come up through some TV Barney Miller

37:20

and those kind of television ships. Made a great

37:22

TV writer. Yeah, made this one movie

37:24

and and died of a heart attack six

37:26

months later. Yeah, which I don't I don't know if a

37:28

lot of people know that years old. Yeah,

37:30

just tragic. Yeah, And

37:33

everybody that read the script loved it.

37:36

But it was again really hard even

37:38

then, very hard really. And

37:40

then what happened is thank god, Dudley

37:43

did ten right. So Blake

37:45

Edwards proved that Dudley could play drunk,

37:48

which is still one of the funniest things I've been going down

37:50

to Mexico. So Dudley could play drunk

37:52

and it didn't feel like a

37:55

bit. Yeah. And the

37:57

thing about Dudley that movie,

37:59

if you if that, the first

38:02

five minutes of that movie should be should

38:05

be every film school should be required

38:07

to watch it because within five minutes

38:10

you have everything you need to

38:12

know. We talk about efficiency is set up

38:14

so much on the show. This is the most efficient, so important.

38:16

He first of the song, and the lyrics of the song

38:19

say that this guy is stuck between the Moon and

38:21

New York City, so he's obviously going through something

38:23

amazing. Laugh is hilarious.

38:25

First three lines of you know are hilarious.

38:28

Then he pulls up and

38:30

the first thing he does, he pulls up in his car and

38:32

on the side it says a B so you obviously go okay,

38:34

Well that must be his initials. He's

38:37

holding a glass of scotch. He's got a

38:40

driver who's completely ineffected,

38:42

so this must happen all the time. Rolls

38:44

on the window. There's two prostitutes and he says the douchy

38:46

thing at first, which is he says, with a more attractive

38:48

of you, please step forward. Neither

38:51

of them do right. His face instantly

38:53

changes, He gets that vulnerable look

38:56

and in a very real Way says, with a person

38:58

who finds me most attracted, stuff up

39:01

and that everything you need to know.

39:03

He's vulnerable, he's willing to be real.

39:06

And then she walks up. He

39:08

has a hilarious negotiation where he negotiates against

39:11

himself. She then says

39:13

who is that? He says, that's Arthur

39:15

Box. She says, that's Arthur Bok. He won't tell something

39:18

wrong with him? And he thinks for about five

39:21

seconds and he goes, Yes, everything

39:23

you need to know right there. And so

39:26

you go, Okay, this guy's got a problem.

39:28

He's vulnerable, he's not he's

39:30

a nice guy. And he goes, we give her a hundred dollars.

39:32

She got Kevan second right, So

39:35

just and if you're in he's not

39:37

like and again, not to disparage

39:39

the sequels Russell, but like you watch Russell's

39:42

performance, Russell has I never saw it.

39:44

I couldn't bring myself to well, here's the difference between

39:46

Russell and Dudley. Dudley, first of all, was

39:48

he drinking in that movie? Was he a drunk or not? The

39:51

whole movie of Arthur

39:54

is about father's and it's

39:56

about not wanting to be alone

39:58

and so and they hit those beats a

40:01

hundred times in the movie, and

40:03

Arthur says out loud, gotta

40:06

be twenty times. I

40:08

don't like to be alone. And one

40:10

of the most beautiful moments in the movie

40:12

is when he's when Sir John Gilgood

40:15

says, I don't want

40:17

you to be alone, and he has that flucked flicker

40:19

in his eye where you go, oh,

40:21

yeah, something's wrong with him,

40:23

like ten minutes into the movie The First

40:25

Night, the First Morning with the with the Press two

40:28

and so the problem

40:30

I think with Russell is Russell has this intelligence

40:33

and his deviousness, and I think

40:35

that the movie didn't work because Dudley

40:38

never plays it that way. He never plays

40:40

he's trying to get someone something over on somebody, never

40:43

plays that he's smarter than anybody else. He

40:45

never plays that he's gonna, you know, cause

40:48

anybody damage. And I think that subtly

40:50

people just looked at Russell went oh, he's

40:52

so smart and so

40:55

cunning that it felt a little cunning

40:58

as opposed to you want to

40:59

how this guy, you know, because on paper,

41:02

first of all, I probably just couldn't have seen any

41:04

Arthur remake. I just this movie is so special

41:07

to me. But on paper. When I saw it

41:10

was it was Russell, I was like, that's

41:12

kind of perfect, Like, what a great

41:14

casting choice. Um, I think

41:16

interestingly and this

41:19

this is sort of a silly thing to say, maybe,

41:21

but I think part of what made

41:23

Dudley Moore works so well was his size.

41:26

He was a little guy, he was

41:28

tinier than everyone. He wasn't threatening,

41:30

he was I mean, he was a kid

41:32

at heart anyway, and so it just sort

41:34

of felt right. Russell is what's

41:37

brand right, He's tall, He's

41:39

gorgeous tall. Yeah, he's good looking,

41:41

and it was just, I don't know, something about

41:43

it just didn't feel like Arthur to me. Well, that's

41:45

why he worked so well as Atticus Finch, you know, right,

41:48

Atticas Finch is that his name? And Attics

41:50

something in in forgetting Sarah Marshall.

41:52

Yeah, Attica's Finch was to kill the first

41:55

anyway. He worked so

41:57

well because he has that live kind of smarter

42:01

than you. Um. Yeah. And the

42:03

thing that's so great about Dudley

42:06

is he's just so physical

42:08

comedy. He's nothing better just

42:11

even following at at

42:14

Susan Johnson was very

42:17

slowly following him, and just

42:19

the themes of that movie if you think about just

42:22

the just none

42:24

of us want to grow up. It's a Peter Pan story. Yeah, so

42:26

you don't want to grow up, and you're everybody fears

42:29

being alone. And really that's just the

42:31

subtle, the subtle nuances

42:34

of just fathers. You know, he

42:36

he has a dad who is American,

42:39

he's English, So so what

42:41

happenstance? This is a total lucky

42:43

break. Dudley couldn't

42:45

play it American because that's what I read. He

42:47

would have been in his head the whole time. I've had this so

42:49

many times, especially with Australian actors, where

42:52

you go try to be funny and do American

42:54

actors and you know that's the timing is

42:56

very hard going in. You're processing,

42:59

you know, you're you're not there,

43:01

so at least hitting away. So subtly

43:04

what they got is that John Gielgud raised

43:06

him. And that's why as an English accent, I love

43:08

that little subtext there,

43:11

and just the whole thing with

43:13

you were a great son at the end and

43:15

that and then and then Susan

43:17

Johnson has a father who's just a murderer,

43:20

who just who will kill anybody who gets in his

43:22

way. And then Liza has her dad

43:25

who's just sweet and well meaning, but it's

43:27

literally like please marry the ability.

43:29

So everybody is dealing with their fathers and

43:32

in different ways. It's just really really,

43:34

really interesting. And there's no moms around

43:37

in the movie at all. There's not one's

43:39

grandma. Who's who's not? Who's the best?

43:41

Yeah? The ballbuster And so when

43:44

you have those that's why I got away with it because

43:47

the vulnerability of him, the way he played

43:49

the vulnerability, and those

43:52

big themes helped propel all the other

43:55

kind of more hard to swallow

43:57

stuff. Yeah, I mean I have I have a note in here

43:59

that, um, he had

44:01

to have this sadness in him about

44:04

his alcoholism. And they don't

44:06

overwhelm you with it. But there are just a few beats

44:08

in that movie really well placed.

44:11

In fact, one early on, when he first goes into

44:13

the restaurant with the with the lady you just picked up,

44:16

uh, the he's at the table and

44:18

you know as a kid, they recently

44:20

had the whole country carpeted. And those

44:24

are the jokes that I was dying at as a kid. You

44:26

know, a little more obvious ones can it should

44:28

have come in there and scrub your dick for you, Like

44:30

those were so funny to me and they're still funny. But

44:33

um, he's going on at the table

44:35

and the old guy says, you know, we also understand you're

44:37

very drunk, and you just it's

44:40

a face acting thing. You see him

44:42

realize I've done it again and

44:45

I've embarrassed myself again. Uh

44:48

And if those yeah, if those yeah,

44:50

he does, and if those little beats weren't there, it

44:52

would not have worked. Every time he's

44:54

sitting at the table and he has a moment where he's holding

44:57

the scotch and she says something, and he

44:59

he goes, do you like me? And she goes

45:02

yeah, and he see he stops and

45:04

he goes, no, no, do you like me. It's

45:07

like a little little moment, heartbreaking, and he

45:09

has the best line I think of any movie

45:11

in the last twenty years, which he says, not

45:14

all people that are poets, not

45:16

people who drank are poets. Some of us

45:18

drink because we're not. Oh

45:21

my god, it just I just got

45:23

like, that's the line. There's

45:25

so many lines like that. Also, just

45:27

like Sir John Gilgad saying

45:30

again right to theme, she's Liza

45:32

manarly says to John. So John, um,

45:35

you take care of good care of him, don't you? And he goes, I

45:37

do the job. I highly recommend. Right.

45:40

It's just like those moments are so real,

45:42

the aspirins are for you. There's

45:45

so many real, amazing

45:47

performances in that just just when

45:50

else when my favorite ones which I didn't get as

45:52

a kid and just really made me laugh. A lot of

45:54

it went over my head. This is this is just a

45:56

rhythm thing. He walks into

45:59

lies his apartment and the first

46:01

thing he tells the dad, if you could just see you and your under shirt could step

46:03

back. But then he walks in and it is probably

46:06

a thirty second tracking shot with John

46:08

as he's taking in the entire thing, and

46:11

you think he might go give him

46:13

a command. He goes, he's

46:15

such an asshole in that scene. It's funny.

46:18

All he's doing is sort of disparaging the father. And

46:20

yes, but she still you know, has stars in her

46:22

eyes because she thinks he's a sweet guy. He can

46:25

I kiss you on the cheek something you feel strongly?

46:28

Yeah, he's yeah, I know this movie by

46:30

heart itself. Me too. I

46:32

I have to watch it alone because I will start

46:34

just doing all the line now, and he you know, and

46:36

then again you have those moments where

46:40

Dudley plays it real where

46:42

he says, I'm so unhappy

46:46

I'm who I wouldn't even matter

46:49

if I was here. I've never done anything in my life.

46:51

Nobody loves me. And he says, helmet

46:54

and your goggles and slaps him and he says,

46:56

you little ship. Anybody would love to be you.

46:58

And by the way, and he throws away, he goes and by the way, I love you.

47:00

Yeah, it's just those moments.

47:02

It's such a good movie. He was nominated for four Academy

47:04

Awards, which doesn't happen

47:06

anymore. Yeah, I'm really I mean, someone

47:09

should do a documentary about Steve Gordon and then

47:11

the making of this film, because you

47:14

gotta know, you gotta wonder what else he had up as

47:16

sleeve. Well, let me geek you out for a second.

47:19

So, having done this for a long time

47:21

and really now going back and looking at

47:23

it, you can see speaking first time filmmaker.

47:26

So, um, the producers were

47:28

really you know, they were really

47:30

wood easy guys. They owned New York.

47:32

There were a bunch of different there were at that time. There were

47:34

different camps. So there was the Woody camp, the Scorsese

47:37

camp, and then the was

47:40

his name, I'll think of it, and one other

47:42

camp of a guy who did really kind of great

47:45

Dog Day Afternoon, like great drums, and

47:47

so the Woody camp, you could see they

47:50

surrounded Steve Gordon,

47:52

so Susan Morris is the editor who edited

47:54

all of Woody's and then the

47:56

the the Fred

47:58

Schuler who was the DP. He

48:00

did King of Comedy like,

48:03

so you can see they like surround

48:05

with him so

48:07

that he could just focus on being funny,

48:10

getting the best out of out of Dudley.

48:12

And I found that really interesting. So in

48:14

that movie started at Paramount, they couldn't cast it,

48:17

and then they went to Orion. So Mike Metavoy also

48:19

I've had on my podcast. He was the head of Orion

48:21

at the time, and he bought that movie from Paramount

48:23

and let him go make it. Did you talk to him about Arthur?

48:26

Yeah, and and again because he had

48:28

made a lot of movies with Woody and so those

48:30

guys brought it to him and he trusted them and

48:32

thought, that's funny. You guys know how to make these movies.

48:35

It's not gonna cost a luck, go do it. Yeah, so

48:37

those are the those are the fun things about the

48:39

the total you know, you where you can really

48:41

look at the movie and go oh and they just left him alone.

48:51

Yeah. The casting of Lives of and La you mentioned earlier.

48:53

Um, I remember as a kid thinking, uh,

48:57

you know, I was eleven and it

49:00

it. Now this sounds terrible, but I just remember as a kid

49:02

thinking like, she's not very

49:04

good looking, Like she's not who is that?

49:06

Yeah, Like I didn't know who she was, and I

49:09

didn't know any of her background or the Judy

49:12

Garland stuff, And I just remember

49:14

thinking like, why didn't they cast some bombshell

49:16

because that's what you're used to seeing, and

49:18

as an eleven year old, that's certainly what you want to see.

49:21

But from the moment she steps on that screen,

49:24

they just their chemistry. They're

49:26

like, uh, some

49:28

old, like married comedy couple

49:30

that's been doing it for a hundred years.

49:32

They're so good together. And it's what's funny about

49:35

lies On that first scene in the berg

49:37

darfs Is you can tell she's in a totally

49:39

different movie. Yeah, she came with her whole

49:41

wardrobe, hair, wearing

49:44

that crazy the

49:46

whole outfit, and it's like she just sees

49:48

she steps on screen like I'm in I give

49:50

a fuck, I don't care what everybody

49:52

else is dressed as I'm in this movie

49:55

in this outfit, big yellow coat,

49:57

yellow coat and the red hat. But and

50:00

and she's holding a Ferrari bag,

50:03

so it's like she's she's, she's you

50:05

know. And that's also what helped, because it

50:07

wasn't just I. I think,

50:10

you know, it's apocryphal because everybody says everybody

50:12

was in every movie, you know, but I

50:15

do. I did do some research,

50:17

and they did want Debra Winger, and she just couldn't get

50:19

her head around it. She would have been great,

50:21

amazing recast in your head.

50:24

Yeah, she's really great and they worked so

50:26

well together. Um that scene and

50:29

and it's it's sort of hard when you do a comedy

50:31

like this to not just like say your favorite lines.

50:33

So I've just cherry picked a few, but

50:36

that scene has a couple of my favorites. Was when he's

50:38

talking about the perfect crime and

50:40

you know, you know, some girls were tied, so it's not a

50:42

perfect crime, it's a good crime. And then Gilga

50:45

goes, if she moded the tie, it would

50:47

be the perfect crime exactly. He

50:50

you know, I read I did her research

50:52

for this a little bit. I did do some reading about it. He

50:55

would literally turn the lives and goes, am

50:57

I being funny, like what's happening? And everybody

50:59

was like, just keep going, don't try.

51:01

He was so good, so much

51:03

one something all

51:06

of that, he had so many good ones. And then you get to

51:09

that crazy third act turn, just one

51:11

of my favorite third acts in the movie

51:13

ever, and just that

51:15

moment where he says, I'm scared and

51:19

you just everything just and

51:21

he's not scared for him, He's scared for

51:23

Arthur. Yeah, because he's amazed to being

51:25

okay with dying. Yes, yeah, it occurred

51:27

to me last night. How I've never really noticed that

51:31

Arthur has learned so much from him. Arthur deals

51:33

with his pain through jokes, because

51:35

Hobson does, and Hobson

51:38

he's He's dealing with his death through

51:40

making humor out of it. And then

51:42

just that turn where though he

51:44

he everybody says you look like shit.

51:47

Yeah, he says, you never seen me sober. Yeah. It's

51:49

just so incredible. And there's

51:52

two ways to read that scene where

51:55

he's giving the toys to Hobson.

51:57

One is that he's just a kid. The other

52:00

doesn't know what to do the others he's trying to

52:02

just distract Hobson, and

52:04

you know with the train is obviously from his

52:07

just that's their thing. But I just love that he gives

52:09

him the hat and he goes, if I start to die, take

52:12

this off me. It's not the way I want to be remembered. But

52:14

you can see him just playing like here,

52:16

just don't feel bad, Like he doesn't

52:19

know how to deal with it, so he's just trying to distract him from

52:21

this moment of dying. Yeah, and I think that stuff

52:23

really works because you see the behind the scenes

52:25

stuff that Hobson doesn't see, which is him

52:28

in the hallway ordering these special

52:30

meals and he doesn't want his last

52:33

meal to be jello, and he stepped

52:35

up. You know that the movie really needed

52:37

that. I mean, it's one of

52:39

my favorite third X too. Arthur

52:41

only uses money to try to

52:43

help other people or make people

52:46

happy. It makes feel happy. And there's

52:48

a really critical moment

52:50

in the movie where he gives her the hundred thousand dollar

52:53

check and she rips it up and the dad cries,

52:55

which is one of the best acting moments,

52:58

you just hear it for the other room,

53:01

because that is really that kind

53:03

of the crux of the whole thing of like

53:06

money doesn't make you happy, right, but

53:08

also has one of the greatest endings of all It

53:11

doesn't suck. I took the money. I'm not crazy. But

53:14

it's also about money can't buy

53:16

you happiness. You have to find love. You have

53:18

to find those people that love and take care

53:20

of and it is it

53:23

is hard to be alone. Yeah, it's it's

53:25

it's a it's a really fascinating

53:28

movie because I think when most people first

53:31

think of it, they do think of like all

53:33

those great lines, you know, I was just doing

53:35

great with you, like you think of all those, you

53:38

know, just really hilarious lines. But the joke

53:40

count is insane. It's just crazy. I don't

53:42

know how you write a movie this densely packed

53:44

with jokes. Neither

53:47

and you'll have so much heart in drama.

53:49

And I kept looking at like if

53:52

there was some improv stuff too, Like I was

53:54

like going, Wow, I wonder how much Dudley

53:56

improv. I'd like to read the script. Well

53:59

you can. The problem is, I mean not the problem.

54:01

The amazing thing is you see

54:04

one you know that maybe was an improv and then it ties in later,

54:06

so it wasn't an improv because well unless they

54:08

wrote it down and said, oh, we're gonna pay. Like these

54:10

things was so carefully plotted,

54:13

you know, and

54:15

there's so many like little tangents, like

54:17

just the scene with the guy who sells some flowers

54:20

you need five, you know, and him

54:24

five friends you feel in love, and then he says,

54:27

by flowers for that girl

54:29

you saw in the bus, Like he remembers

54:32

these things and says to people, do

54:34

this for your wife because you know, And then

54:37

and then later on you know, and then and and just

54:39

the fun of by

54:41

tending green. I don't wear sweaters and he wear sweaters

54:43

the whole movie. He's just saying that just to kind

54:46

of, you know, appease the person

54:49

he's buying it from. Just all these this little tiny

54:51

things that are layered in that

54:54

are pulled through so elegantly, and

54:56

I gotta believe it came from

54:58

sitcom writing where he just put

55:00

it all in there and just insanely because Dudley

55:03

so talented, they all worked. Yeah, because

55:05

nine times out of ten, you know, like

55:07

you go back and you look at the Judd movies. You

55:10

know he's throwing they're

55:13

not all working, so you pull them out and I see

55:15

Dudley was I just think Dudley

55:17

was such a master that they just kept them all in.

55:20

Yeah. I mean the joke count is ridiculous.

55:23

And you know it has lines that I still say

55:25

in my real life. I say, it doesn't

55:27

suck a lot. And then whenever

55:29

anyone says something about the

55:32

light outside or look at the light on that thing,

55:34

I always say, of course, you can't depend on that light. It's

55:36

one of my favorite lines. Also one of the greatest

55:39

pieces of editing Susan Morris,

55:41

because what happens in that scene is he goes, fine,

55:44

then I'm not gonna take the money. She's like, and

55:46

the father's like, well fine, then you're cut

55:48

off, and then you don't know the number, and

55:50

he goes, you just lost seven dollars

55:52

and door shut. You

55:54

know when the lights are

55:56

just right but it's all off camera.

55:59

The first two lines does that kid, it's

56:01

it's so yeah, and and again

56:04

just a testament to Dudley.

56:06

And I was watching it when I watched it this

56:08

time, even like when he puts his drink

56:11

on the on the fender there.

56:15

That is not an improv because he's such a physical

56:17

comedian. They must have put something because

56:20

he puts it twice,

56:23

and he does it and then but he

56:26

doesn't overdo it like I could see

56:28

another actor standing there for

56:30

ten minutes acting like it's gonna fall.

56:33

He just does a quick little beat each time. Well,

56:35

that was one tangent was saying about the floral

56:37

arrangement. The other tangent is berry Berry's wife.

56:41

No need for that to be in the movie whatsoever.

56:44

It's amazing. It's one of my favorite scenes. It's got

56:46

one of my favorite lines. My husband has a gun. Yeah,

56:49

and for all I know he shot at while you were yelling at But

56:51

also when I watched it again as an older

56:54

person, you could say, is thematically, that

56:56

is what you don't want to be, somebody

56:58

who just is in a horrible relation ship, being

57:01

beaten up, not happy, because

57:03

he goes get back in there and give her what for. And

57:05

then the first thing he says when he finally

57:08

gets let into Susan's party, because don't you hate

57:10

Perry's why?

57:13

So again, that's the thing. You realize how confident

57:16

he was because he

57:18

had that in there, knowing he was going to leave that scene

57:20

in there. I think now probably who

57:23

knows, maybe in a preview that that scene is amazing,

57:26

I might have cut that scene. Yeah, you know, to get

57:28

to the ninety minutes that you know you need, because

57:30

these movies back in the day weren't previewed

57:32

like they are now, right, these comedies, you really

57:34

relied more on your own gut. Yeah.

57:37

Interesting, there was one line that I you

57:39

know, when you see a movie that you know by heart, it's

57:42

always interesting when you catch a line that you never

57:44

caught before. And I was like, there's no way

57:46

I know every word of this movie, but there

57:48

was a line and I guess it was said and maybe

57:51

I was a kid and I didn't understand it. But

57:53

I actually had to subtitle it last night

57:55

because I didn't know what he said. But after

57:58

the tie theft scene, when he's

58:00

talking about like how amazing she is, Geel

58:03

could goes, she does have a sorta in eleanor

58:05

Roosevelt clause And

58:07

never caught that line. Great, and

58:09

it really doesn't really even make sense, but coming from

58:11

him, everything he says is a perfect

58:14

put down. Yeah, he really and

58:18

again Steve must have rewritten the script

58:20

once lies it was cast because a lot of stuff is specific

58:22

to her that wouldn't have worked again if

58:24

you would have cast like right

58:27

right, it would have been a little bit more on the nose. Yeah,

58:30

casting is great. Oh and then and then again

58:33

going to back to his vulnerability

58:35

and why you love him. The whole date scene. Yeah,

58:39

he takes her to a little carnival. Yeah, and stays

58:41

pretty sober. I think he's drinking a little wine at dinner,

58:43

but he doesn't get smashed. And they have this amazing

58:46

thing where he's a kid and she's like, wow, I thought dating

58:48

a millionaire would be different, and he's like

58:50

having this joy, which is a total juxtaposition

58:53

to where he took the prostitute right to the Plaza,

58:55

right right right in the heart of everything and

58:58

just kind of you made a big show

59:00

of it, but with her, took her away and did

59:03

something really personal and sweet with her. Well, it's

59:05

all I think he was almost interested in

59:08

thumbing his nose at the system that he's a part

59:10

of by bringing her to the Plaza hotel at

59:12

the beginning, But when he has

59:14

you know, and the moments that make this

59:16

movie so you know,

59:18

it gives you an emotional tie. Are his sober

59:21

moments, Like the drunk stuff is very flesh, but

59:23

it's all those sober moments that really that's

59:25

the heart of the film. The whole scene with the horse because

59:28

I wish you had made love I was seeing in the morning, you

59:30

know, and he can I kiss you and he kisses the horse. I

59:32

wasn't talking about you, Like those are the ground and

59:34

the subtlety of the performances too,

59:37

and and being able to track that so

59:39

like one of the most fascinating pieces of

59:41

acting for me is he's in

59:44

that bar with that rummy, who's great

59:46

casting that guy which one

59:48

terrible. The guy he says he's

59:50

getting married, he doesn't there

59:52

in the bar the day of the wedding. He's

59:55

amazing. I

59:57

have that sober for a mom

1:00:00

He's amazing. And then he says, goes to

1:00:02

your brother, yea, nobody wants to be alone,

1:00:05

and then he tracks it to going

1:00:07

to her still hammered,

1:00:10

and then getting to the wedding

1:00:12

a little less drunk, but still drunk to be able to walk down

1:00:14

the aisle, and then that whole performance

1:00:17

with you think he wants and

1:00:19

then to the end being kind of sober again

1:00:21

being but being in pain because you've been

1:00:24

beat up, right, that's

1:00:26

probably a

1:00:29

week of shooting that you had to

1:00:31

just know where you were.

1:00:34

Well, yeah, and just but also just his performance

1:00:36

of Okay, how where

1:00:38

am I in relation to because because

1:00:40

when he was drinking with that, it was five

1:00:42

hours before his wedding, bitterman comes in and goes to have five

1:00:44

hours Yeah, so it's like in the middle of the day

1:00:46

basically morning. Yeah, and then and then

1:00:49

he goes to get her at the dinner and

1:00:51

he says, I'm getting married in twenty minutes. So he's

1:00:53

got a track like how

1:00:55

sober he is? Yeah, and he does it perfectly.

1:00:58

Yeah. I love that scene in the bar with that guy.

1:01:00

Is he when Dudley Moore when Arthur starts

1:01:03

to get all worked up, he gets up and tries

1:01:05

to leave a couple of times, make a scene.

1:01:08

He's not into that at all. It's

1:01:11

real, He's like. And also when he

1:01:13

when when Arthur is going to meet

1:01:16

with Susan's dad in the Hampton's

1:01:19

it's my favorite sequence of

1:01:21

my favorite comedy. Yeah, well, think

1:01:23

about he's driving drinking again

1:01:25

out of the bottle and then he stops in front

1:01:28

of the thing and does the

1:01:30

laugh. Oh, and that's when you know he's

1:01:32

there. He's there, and he can he can, he

1:01:34

can face all the butler stuff. Are

1:01:36

you sure you want to be a nightclub comic? It was amazing

1:01:40

us. You did you hate

1:01:42

this moose? That the moose stuff. The

1:01:45

funniest line to me is right

1:01:48

at the beginning with the moose. Well, first of all, the way they

1:01:50

had that shot framed down low, with that

1:01:52

giant fucking moose nose in between

1:01:54

them. And he makes a joke

1:01:56

and looks at the moose and just because this is a

1:01:58

tough room, but I don't have to tell you that, And

1:02:00

then it goes where he says, don't talk about the moose

1:02:02

anymore. And then he says I killed a man. And

1:02:05

he just deadly, just slowly looks

1:02:07

at it, doesn't see anything,

1:02:09

but it's one you don't even see the most he just

1:02:12

looks up like God,

1:02:14

he's so brilliant. Was he nominated for this? Yes,

1:02:17

he won the Golden Globe to well

1:02:19

ordinary people one, so I'm assuming ordinary people

1:02:21

want best pictures. I'm assuming it was somebody from ordinary people.

1:02:23

I didn't look it up. Interesting but in in

1:02:26

in eighty one he was nominated.

1:02:28

He won Golden the Golden Globe for Best Comedic

1:02:31

Actor but didn't win. But gil Good

1:02:33

one and the song one, uh,

1:02:36

the Arthur theme one, right, and the stream

1:02:38

play was nominated and didn't didn't win

1:02:40

either. I'm assuming ordinary people won that as well.

1:02:42

Yeah, that song. I mean, there's a

1:02:45

as soon as those opening notes hit with the Little

1:02:48

Ryan, it was Oriyan that Orian logo, It's

1:02:51

like, that does something to my psyche. You're

1:02:53

in from my being eleven years old

1:02:55

and seeing this movie a thousand times. And

1:02:57

you know, I don't think my parents they were pretty guard

1:03:00

it about what I watched. But um,

1:03:02

I think I just got away with this one. Yeah.

1:03:05

Well, because it was PG. They didn't know bugs

1:03:08

Bunny, they didn't know. They thought, oh it's fine,

1:03:10

and some you know, these subtle jokes

1:03:12

were being being fed to you. But it was a

1:03:14

love story, you know, it was a really sweet movie. It

1:03:17

wasn't it wasn't

1:03:19

too tawdry. I mean it was

1:03:22

so like alcoholism, wasn't the

1:03:24

kind of you didn't think about it in the same way. Then you

1:03:26

can play it for laughs. And even

1:03:28

at the end he says, I'm gonna try to I promise I'll

1:03:30

try to stay sober. He doesn't say

1:03:32

I'm not going to drink anymore. There's no, there's

1:03:35

no. And you realize when the grandmother

1:03:37

says no, there's never been a Bach who

1:03:39

has been a working class back she says,

1:03:41

your your your son will be president or

1:03:44

at center. You realize they've all. He's all they've

1:03:46

got. Yeah, there's nobody else, right,

1:03:48

So the line ends with him, and I

1:03:50

was thinking also speaking of the Arthur

1:03:52

remake, I was thinking about the sequel, Arthur

1:03:55

on the Rocks. I did see that, but I don't remember much

1:03:57

of what the problem is. His arc is so closed.

1:04:00

It's over a right. So he starts off as a child

1:04:02

and he ends as an adult. Even says I've

1:04:04

grown up, right, and so you there's

1:04:07

nowhere to go. Yeah, it's not like a superhero

1:04:09

where then you just send Arthur on at a venture. It

1:04:11

was a complete so they tried to reset, and

1:04:14

so then you just ended up going through the same Well was even

1:04:16

the plot, I don't know. He was married

1:04:18

and drunk and having to to try.

1:04:20

I can't remember what the actual plot was, but

1:04:22

that was the ark of his character just reset and you're like

1:04:24

when you saw this, like, why am I watching

1:04:27

this again? You know that was the problem and that thing was

1:04:29

great in it, but it's just such a perfect

1:04:32

character arc of a guy who's

1:04:34

growing up, a kid who's growing

1:04:36

up. That's why we all loved it at our ages. Yeah,

1:04:39

it's interesting. And he also has that moment with Susan

1:04:41

when he gets engaged a

1:04:43

couple of I mean, that's a pretty pivotal scene.

1:04:46

Um, he's being forced to do this,

1:04:49

he does it anyway. He says this

1:04:51

is who I am and basically

1:04:53

like, this is who you're marrying. You know that. And

1:04:56

then the second he

1:04:58

pops the question and he says, yes, he wants

1:05:01

to leave, he wants to go home, he feels sick,

1:05:03

he wants to go pass out. Basically, Yeah,

1:05:05

it's amazingly about that scene she orders

1:05:08

food and he's just got a silver tray with a full

1:05:10

glass of scotch. And do that move occasionally

1:05:12

in restaurants, Yes, I'll let a drink on an empty

1:05:14

plate. The two lines I sometimes say

1:05:16

generally when I'm in Vegas. One is engine room

1:05:18

with the house my child. God, it's so great. And

1:05:21

the second one is I'm gonna need one. My

1:05:23

doctors advised me I need the

1:05:26

man. I've done the engine room thing because

1:05:29

you rarely see an actual telephone in these days.

1:05:31

So occasionally, if I'm actually in a place where

1:05:33

I have a telephone, I'll pick it up and I'll go engine room where

1:05:35

there's my drink and no one knows what that No, that's it's

1:05:37

great. Um

1:05:41

let me see here, I'm going through my notes.

1:05:44

I think that like, structurally, they

1:05:47

could you know, they could teach this

1:05:49

in screen running class. It's and

1:05:52

what I learned as a writer, and I've obviously I

1:05:55

am not great at it, or else i'd be making movies right

1:05:57

now. But I did learn a thing or two about

1:05:59

what goes into a good script. And I

1:06:02

think like the advice I would give

1:06:04

if I ever talk about it is

1:06:07

there are very few Charlie Kaufman's out

1:06:09

there, like there

1:06:12

there's a formula for a reason. It's because

1:06:14

it works and it's what people are conditioned to. And

1:06:16

good writing to me is I mean, if

1:06:18

you can be Charlie Cauman, great, but

1:06:21

um, don't try to be because you're gonna fail.

1:06:23

Probably, Like stay within the formula

1:06:26

and just do a really good job at it. Hit

1:06:28

those act plot points as

1:06:31

as like perfectly as you can at

1:06:33

the thirty minute mark and at the whatever you

1:06:35

know eighty you know, third act

1:06:38

plot point, and make it

1:06:40

great within those parameters, because

1:06:42

people need to see movies that they

1:06:44

understand. Generally, I think a

1:06:47

lot of screenwriters suffer

1:06:50

from worrying that there

1:06:53

being two on the nose, which

1:06:55

you can be obviously, but that

1:06:58

if you look at Arthur, every

1:07:00

scene restates the theme in

1:07:02

some way. It's very on the nose yea.

1:07:05

And sometimes he just says it out

1:07:07

loud, I don't want to be alone, and sometimes

1:07:09

he says I just want people like me, and sometimes

1:07:12

he says, um, you know you're

1:07:14

my father. It's so all of the themes

1:07:16

of growing up, not

1:07:18

being afraid of being an adult, not

1:07:20

wanting to be alone, and our relationships

1:07:23

with our fathers is restated in every scene.

1:07:25

And so if you're a screenwriter

1:07:27

that's starting out and are writing a screenplay, just

1:07:30

make sure that you are every

1:07:32

scene has a reason for being right. And

1:07:34

that's the other thing I find as a lot of times people

1:07:36

just want to be clever and

1:07:39

or they'll say, well,

1:07:41

the audience gets it. They're gonna, you know, and it's not

1:07:43

that the audience is just stupid, they're very intelligent.

1:07:46

But if you can, but it's your job

1:07:48

to hide the cards. So

1:07:52

if you just have a scene that's like, well this happened to

1:07:54

me, I think it's interesting, and like, what the hell?

1:07:56

This has nothing to do with the movie, every

1:07:58

scene needs to not

1:08:01

only move the plot forward, but move the

1:08:03

characters forward and continue

1:08:05

to restate the theme in some

1:08:07

way, because that's what gets

1:08:10

you emotionally invested in these characters.

1:08:13

So that first five minutes of Arthur,

1:08:15

you're just in because he said everything

1:08:18

he needs to say. He's generous, he's a scoundrel,

1:08:21

He's but he's vulnerable, he's

1:08:23

lovable and this is clearly

1:08:26

something he's struggling

1:08:28

with and he wants to do

1:08:30

better, but he doesn't know how. And

1:08:32

so every scene kind of does

1:08:34

that. And for us, I think the reason why um,

1:08:38

people who saw it in their teens and as

1:08:40

children love it so much is it really just is about

1:08:43

fathers and our relationships

1:08:45

with their dad and the In fact, she says it

1:08:47

in one of the craziest lines of all time

1:08:49

when she says, my mom moved out

1:08:51

when I was six, and my dad raped me when I was twelve.

1:08:53

He goes, well, you had six relatively good years, and

1:08:55

then he says, don't worry, my father screwed me too. And

1:08:58

it's it's a easy

1:09:00

line that you probably couldn't say and of today,

1:09:03

but it hits everything that he's about.

1:09:05

He's trying to trying to deflect

1:09:07

her pain through humor, and he's trying to relate

1:09:10

to her by being vulnerable. Right. Yeah,

1:09:12

it's a really good screenwriting exercise.

1:09:15

Yeah, and it's like a tight rope.

1:09:17

Like on the surface, it looks like just

1:09:19

this sort of easy movie to make,

1:09:22

but it's really not. It could this movie could have gone

1:09:24

so wrong. Um, if you

1:09:26

know, if anyone other than Dudley

1:09:28

Moore, maybe I knew he thought about Jack Nicholson

1:09:31

and he was trying to cast American. Yeah, I

1:09:33

think you know, everybody always had Charles Groden

1:09:35

in every Yeah,

1:09:38

that's what I hear. It's always these things are apocryphal, That's

1:09:40

what I'm saying. So funny, but he was a little too

1:09:42

dry maybe for this. He also was very

1:09:44

close on Pretty Woman, Oh,

1:09:47

got right? Yeah, right, I think

1:09:49

he might even screen tested with Julia. He's

1:09:51

not a romantic lead though, or I think at

1:09:53

the time, when you know he was doing so many

1:09:55

good movies, you know, and

1:09:58

different roles between Heaving eight

1:10:00

and you know all, you know, all the

1:10:02

all the movies that he was doing, I think

1:10:04

people just were like, he's a star, let's give him

1:10:06

interesting. I keep waiting on someone to pick my

1:10:09

probably second favorite comedy of all time, Midnight

1:10:12

Run. By the way,

1:10:14

let me give you some insight about being a producer,

1:10:16

so me too. I

1:10:19

loved Midnight Run, which is why

1:10:21

I made Jeelie. Oh Wow,

1:10:24

where you go?

1:10:26

Goodness again? There you go. We're

1:10:29

Marty Brass can do no wrong. Like

1:10:31

it's Marty Brest. He did Beverly Hills copy

1:10:33

to that. Everybody has their moments, you know,

1:10:35

and and and we had anybuddy, you know, we had

1:10:37

done you know, Armageddon in Pearl Harbor

1:10:40

with Ben and so it's just you know,

1:10:42

it's again, it's a fly. It's like everybody

1:10:44

says, it seems super easy to do, but

1:10:48

one thing can go wrong. It's like the Space Shuttle. It just sort

1:10:50

of drinks off into into space and you can't

1:10:52

bring it back. Making a movie a

1:10:54

good movie is incredibly difficult, and

1:10:57

uh, I don't know if everyone gets

1:11:00

know how hard it is, because it's so easy to

1:11:02

be an armchair critic and to come down on something,

1:11:04

but making movies difficult, so hard,

1:11:07

and especially now with you know, everybody

1:11:09

has a microphone that is

1:11:11

equal to any other microphone. And

1:11:13

like, if you're on Twitter Entertainment Weekly and

1:11:16

Frank from Burbank has the

1:11:18

same Twitter feed, the same

1:11:20

maybe one has more followers, but I can still get to you

1:11:22

if you're he's dagging you, Frank

1:11:25

ouch uh and but um

1:11:28

yeah, And so it's it's it's nearly

1:11:30

impossible to make a good movie, and so

1:11:33

when it happens, it's it's joyous. And

1:11:35

that's why I again being

1:11:37

the crazy optimist that I am and being like

1:11:40

what you say, a sycophant, um, I

1:11:43

I I celebrate

1:11:45

everybody's success. Also, I send emails

1:11:48

and text to all my friends when they hit USA.

1:11:51

Have to That's how it should be. It's so

1:11:53

hard, you know. Yeah, I've had

1:11:55

I've had movies that I've done with the exact

1:11:58

crew of a movie that did it huge hit

1:12:00

just the movie before, and it just didn't work

1:12:02

out. The same way, you know, And so anytime

1:12:05

that alchemy comes together, you got

1:12:08

to celebrate it. I send a note

1:12:10

over and I send emails I do you know,

1:12:12

I just celebrate him and I bring him my podcast

1:12:14

and tell them how great they are, because it's

1:12:17

really hard, and there are certain when

1:12:19

you see guys. I just saw that I'm

1:12:21

late to the party. I just saw the HBO

1:12:23

documentary on Spielberg, and

1:12:25

you look at that guy and you just realize, Okay,

1:12:27

you he's the magician,

1:12:30

and he's just so good at what he does.

1:12:33

And then you watch the documentary and you realize

1:12:35

how hard he works and how much

1:12:37

he studies and how much prep work he

1:12:39

does to be able to be the maestro on the day.

1:12:42

Yeah, you know, I did. When I

1:12:44

was working TV commercials, I did work

1:12:46

with some of those big directors. I did a couple of Michael Bayer

1:12:48

commercials and I worked with Tony Scott,

1:12:51

and it was interesting to see the difference in those two guys

1:12:54

on a set. And Tony

1:12:56

Scott was the leader

1:12:58

of the army. Everyone loved him. Everyone would

1:13:00

go to battle with him, and he

1:13:02

was constantly moving and just

1:13:05

had so much positive forward momentum

1:13:07

as a person, uh

1:13:09

you know, a sense of play. Let's go do this,

1:13:11

pick up a camera, let's go do that. And Michael

1:13:14

Bay was just it was the worst,

1:13:16

really god damn experience. Yeah,

1:13:19

I mean a d I think we went through like three

1:13:22

a d s on that job, like throwing

1:13:24

their walk He's into the Grand Canyon because they were so

1:13:26

mad and he's intense, uh just

1:13:30

berating. He was berating the stunt drivers

1:13:32

and it was tough. And

1:13:35

I I've made a couple of movies with them, so I honestly

1:13:38

believe he wouldn't

1:13:42

even understand that that happened.

1:13:44

Really, yeah, because I think he's so he

1:13:46

loves it so much and he's such a kid at heart.

1:13:48

I think he just loves doing it. He

1:13:51

wants to just go fast and be right.

1:13:53

I think that he wouldn't even I think

1:13:55

he would be like probably saw those pas and be

1:13:57

like, hey, you're gonna have a beer. Like I don't think he That

1:14:00

is true. Actually, he didn't turn

1:14:02

his uh he was he was never turning

1:14:05

his eye on us. In fact, I always

1:14:07

tell the story that it's it was kind of great

1:14:09

too because PA's were kind of invisible to him,

1:14:12

so he could be having a meltdown

1:14:14

in someone and I could be standing three ft from him

1:14:17

and he's not like, what are you looking at? Get out of here.

1:14:19

He just didn't even see me. Well, he's

1:14:21

you know, he's also doing eighty five setups a day, you

1:14:24

know. So he's on a ten million dollars

1:14:27

Ford commercial or whatever he's and

1:14:29

he doesn't need ten million dollars. He did

1:14:32

the first Bad Boys for and

1:14:34

he's just a maniac in that way. He

1:14:36

just loves it and he wants to get every

1:14:39

squeeze, every bit

1:14:41

of juice out of the orange as he

1:14:43

can as he's making the movie. And I think that that

1:14:45

you're changing my mind on. He brings a lot of eggs.

1:14:48

I've know the guy very well. I've done I've done, I

1:14:50

did UM. I worked on Pearl Harbor

1:14:52

with him, and he did Armageddon at the studio when

1:14:54

we were there, and and in the Rock and

1:14:56

so I know him and I've

1:14:59

been in the trend just with him. I've gone

1:15:01

head to head with him on some things. But

1:15:03

I but I, but I. What I love

1:15:05

about him is that it's not punitive

1:15:08

and it's not ego. It's all about

1:15:10

the work, all right, And it's just a guy

1:15:12

who is just like, let's go pick

1:15:14

up and he's excited and

1:15:17

and yeah, I'm sure he can like I'm

1:15:19

glad to hear this perspective. And also he

1:15:22

should never judge someone on three

1:15:24

or four days out of their life, you know, but

1:15:26

you're not. I think that's the way it works. And I

1:15:28

don't think he would. I don't I think he'd be like, yeah, it

1:15:31

wasn't it great. I just think that there are certain I

1:15:33

just think there are certain coaches too that are like,

1:15:36

do you have you ever watched Last Chance? To

1:15:38

you? Yeah, you know, you just see that coach

1:15:40

And I just don't I don't think he I

1:15:43

don't think he like hates those kids. I just think

1:15:45

he thinks we're gonna win, and then if

1:15:47

we win, you're all ships rise

1:15:49

in the tide um. There

1:15:52

are you know, I've worked with other directors

1:15:54

that are just complete, you

1:15:56

know, sociopathic assholes that just

1:15:58

just mean people, right, um,

1:16:00

And he's not that now, And you don't want to work with those

1:16:03

those people, even even if they're great. Life's too short.

1:16:05

Well, Todd, I feel like we could talk for another feen

1:16:07

hours. Uh, this is awesome. I would

1:16:09

love to hang out next time you're in Atlanta, anytime,

1:16:12

go get some dinner or whatever. Anytime. Thank

1:16:14

you for picking Arthur. Thank you. And if

1:16:17

you're listening and you have not seen the original Arthur,

1:16:19

my god, just watch

1:16:22

it. It holds up. It's still so so funny,

1:16:25

has so much heart, and especially

1:16:27

when you know the story behind with the director

1:16:30

making his one film and passing away so young. It's

1:16:33

just kind of one of those legendary comedies. Yeah,

1:16:35

thank all

1:16:41

right everyone. I hope you enjoyed that as much as I

1:16:43

did. I think you could tell by listening

1:16:46

to this that Todd and I really hit it off. He was

1:16:48

a super cool guy, very nice, nice

1:16:51

man, and it's uh I really think

1:16:53

it's awesome what he's doing, uh a

1:16:55

in his career, just by being a good

1:16:57

guy that's a producer, and also

1:17:00

his podcast and kind of spreading the word about what producers

1:17:02

do and how you can be a good guy

1:17:04

and be a producer and you don't have to yell

1:17:07

and scream and be a terrible human being. And

1:17:09

I think so often, unfairly that's the

1:17:11

the image that a lot of people have of the Hollywood

1:17:13

movie producer. So thanks to Todd

1:17:16

for coming on. Definitely check out his podcast.

1:17:18

It's really great. I would just

1:17:20

kind of scroll through and pick someone that sounds

1:17:22

interesting. It's a good way to start. And thanks

1:17:24

a lot for listening, and we'll see you next week.

1:17:28

The movie Crash is produced and written by Charles

1:17:30

Bryant and Roel Brown, edited and engineered

1:17:32

by Seth Nicholas Johnson, and scored

1:17:34

by Noel Brown here in our home studio

1:17:36

at Pontsty Market, Atlanta, Georgia. For

1:17:39

I Heart Radio. For more podcasts

1:17:41

for my Heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,

1:17:43

Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your

1:17:45

favorite shows.