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a companion piece to Cold Blooded, these

0:58

are just some additional episodes to

1:00

give you a greater insight into

1:02

the crimes and lives of Private

1:04

Karl Halton, Alias Ricky-Allen, and

1:06

Elizabeth Baker, Alias Georgina Grayson.

1:10

The regular episodes of Murder Mile return

1:12

at the end of January, with possibly

1:14

a little surprise in between. Until

1:16

then, thank you, Merry

1:19

Christmas and Happy New Year. Thank

1:21

you, Merry Christmas. Hokey

1:24

dokey folks. So let's do Elizabeth's

1:26

second statement. This is that she came in

1:28

the same day. So it's 11th of October

1:30

again. It's the

1:33

same day. It's immediately afterwards. She's already spoken

1:35

to Harry Kimber. Harry Kimber said, you've got

1:37

to go into the police station and tell

1:39

them everything. So this is a couple of

1:41

hours later. So this

1:43

is her coming in and doing

1:45

more of a confession. Now,

1:48

I've broken this down into two

1:50

parts. Because it's an

1:52

eight-page statement. It's

1:55

going to nacker you out. It's going to nacker me out.

1:57

I think it's about half an hour each. So you can

1:59

take it. time with this. But

2:02

here we go. Okay. Record

2:04

it at Hammersmith Police Station F

2:06

Division 11th October 1944. Statement

2:10

of Elizabeth Marina Jones age

2:12

18. Right. The

2:16

statement I have made to you this morning

2:18

is incorrect for the most part and I

2:20

wish to tell you the whole truth about

2:22

my association with Ricky Allen. I

2:24

first met him on Tuesday 3rd October 1944

2:28

in a cafe in Hammersmith Broadway and I

2:30

was introduced to him by Lenny. That's Len

2:32

Bexley. I don't know his last

2:34

name. I'll interject every so often just

2:36

to clarify details when we need to. He

2:40

asked me to meet him at 11.30pm that night

2:42

and to go for a drive. The

2:44

meeting place was outside of the Broadway cinema.

2:46

I turned up and he was not there.

2:50

I was on my way home up King

2:52

Street Hammersmith when I was hailed

2:54

by a man arriving in an American

2:57

lorry. I recognised the voice of

2:59

being that of Ricky and I got into the

3:01

truck with him. It was a

3:03

big truck. It had 10 wheels. It was actually 6

3:06

and we drove to Reading. So as

3:10

you'll see with Ricky's statement this is

3:12

pretty much about accurate. This is true.

3:14

Ricky was... there was a boat going

3:16

past. Normally I would edit this out

3:18

but in these extra pieces it's fine.

3:21

I'm alright with that. You won't hear

3:23

me getting angry about shit. Maybe

3:25

I will. Who knows? Ricky

3:28

confirmed that this was the way it happened

3:30

as well. I think it's unlikely that they

3:32

got together and made an agreement on kind

3:34

of a lie here because it seems an

3:36

irrelevant piece to kind of lie about. So

3:38

this I think this is as near to

3:40

the truth as we'll get. She continues.

3:43

I told him in the truck that I would

3:46

like to do something dangerous. Meaning to

3:48

go over Germany in a bomber. I

3:50

meant this but he got me wrong. He

3:53

then told me that he was... he

3:55

then told me what he was doing and showed me

3:57

a gun which he pulled out from the inside of

3:59

his pocket. or it might have been

4:01

hooked to his trousers. He

4:04

went on to say that he had

4:06

killed a number of people in Chicago

4:08

with a gun. He told

4:10

me that he had done a lot of it over here.

4:12

I then asked him why

4:14

he was not with his unit. He

4:17

was dressed in an officer's uniform and he

4:20

replied, my unit is in Holland. They weren't

4:22

there in Reading. When

4:25

he got to Reading, actually

4:27

some of his unit were actually

4:29

at the DDA landings because that

4:31

had taken place. Some had gone

4:33

to Holland. She's slightly

4:35

right. When we got to

4:37

Reading, he drove around the

4:39

town and we started backwards towards London at

4:42

about two o'clock. That'd be in the morning.

4:45

When we got on the road back, as

4:47

far as I can say near Maidenhead, but

4:49

I know it was on the London to

4:51

Bath Road, we passed a girl on a

4:53

bicycle going in the same direction. We

4:56

drove on for about five minutes and pulled up at the

4:58

side of the road. He got

5:01

out and waited for the girl on the bicycle

5:03

to come along. I sat in

5:05

the truck and the girl came

5:07

alongside the truck. I saw him push

5:09

her off her bicycle when

5:12

it was still going and she fell onto the

5:14

road. She screamed, don't touch me.

5:16

And as it was

5:18

a clear night, I saw him pick up something and

5:20

the girl ran off. Ricky climbed

5:23

back into the lobby and I drove off. It

5:26

was a left-hand drive and

5:28

during the night he'd taught me to drive. As

5:31

we were driving along at a fast speed,

5:34

Ricky drew my attention to the girl who was

5:36

crouching in the shrubbery at the side of the

5:38

road. I think in the front of

5:40

a garden of a house, as we

5:43

were going along, Ricky looked through the

5:45

girl's handbag. We just go

5:47

to the next page. Page two. Oh come

5:51

on page two, where are you bugger? All

5:54

right, there we go. Page two. Bear

5:57

with, bear with. As we were driving along,

6:00

Ricky climbed over me and took over

6:02

the wheel. He asked me to look

6:04

through the bag. I saw

6:07

inside was a book and half

6:09

of a clothing coupon, about 9

6:11

shillings in money and letters and

6:13

photographs. It was a

6:16

big bag with a small handbag inside. I

6:18

also saw in it was sanitary towels, a

6:20

face towel, soap and a flannel. I'm

6:23

not sure but I believe there were some pyjamas

6:25

in it too. Ricky

6:27

took out the money and the clothing coupons

6:30

and threw the handbag and

6:33

the big bag away into the road as we

6:35

were driving along. We got back

6:38

into London at about 5 o'clock in the

6:40

morning and I left him and went

6:43

indoors. He

6:45

drove me in the truck to the door and

6:48

I don't know where he went. He

6:50

knew my name was Georgina Grayson, my stage

6:53

name and I gave him my address before

6:55

we went. He called

6:57

for me at my flat about 5 in the

6:59

afternoon last Thursday and we

7:02

went and ate afterwards and went to

7:04

the Gellmont cinema in Hammersmith. We

7:07

came out of the cinema at about 8.30

7:09

and entered the cafe in Hammersmith Broadway.

7:15

Just as we got to the door,

7:17

the siren sounded. About

7:21

three quarters of an hour after we

7:24

left the cafe he said we'll

7:26

go and do another job. I

7:30

understood he meant to go and steal

7:32

some money from somebody. He took me

7:34

around to the Gellmont cinema car park

7:37

and I saw the American 10-wheel

7:39

truck. We got into the

7:41

truck which Ricky drove to Reading. In

7:46

this she's entirely missed the fact

7:48

that they'd had taken

7:50

the young girls, don't forget we still don't know

7:52

the name of that girl there, taking those their

7:54

young girls possessions and they kind of sold them

7:57

off to people. She's entirely missed that. So

8:01

the truck is driving to Reading. As we

8:03

neared Reading, he said, I'm going to break

8:05

into the White Hart Hotel and get some

8:07

money. He pulled up outside of

8:09

the hotel, which is on the

8:11

right-hand side of the road. It was never

8:14

really established exactly where that hotel was. It

8:16

doesn't exist anymore. But

8:18

got the feeling that

8:20

we were being watched and Ricky drove

8:23

away, returning to London by a different

8:25

road. We went

8:27

into the West End and then

8:29

Marble Arch, where we saw a

8:31

cab. He said, I'm going to follow it and take

8:34

the money of the driver. Now

8:38

don't forget in the episode, we're

8:40

going to do Ricky's

8:42

statements, Carl's statements as well, but he said

8:45

it was her decision to get a

8:47

taxi driver and then rob him.

8:51

We followed the cab for a while

8:53

and he stopped. Ricky told

8:56

me we were in Cricklewood. He

8:58

said, we saw the cab

9:00

stop and somebody alighted and

9:03

the cab waited for a

9:05

while. We stopped around 400

9:07

yards behind the cab. Then the

9:09

cab turned round and passed us. Ricky

9:12

then turned round and followed him for about

9:14

10 minutes until he got to a lonely

9:17

spot and Ricky drove up ahead of him,

9:19

forcing the cab to stop. Ricky

9:22

pulled out his revolver, jumped down into the

9:24

roadway, went up to the cabby and said,

9:26

I want your money. I

9:29

heard the cabby say, I've just come out. I

9:32

heard somebody call out from inside the

9:34

cab, follow him. Ricky jumped back into

9:36

the truck and drove away quickly. He

9:40

told me that an American officer was in the

9:42

cab. The cab began to follow us, but we

9:44

lost him. I think that was about

9:46

1.30 in the morning. So

9:49

don't forget that's the cab with John Strangway in

9:51

it and the American officer who was in the

9:54

back. So that's up in Kilburn, which

9:56

is right. They started in Cricklewood,

9:58

but then they drove back. in

10:00

through Kilburn, which is kind of

10:02

heading south. We

10:04

drove for some way and then we saw a

10:06

girl walking along the pavement carrying a case. Ricky

10:09

stopped her and asked if she wanted a lift.

10:11

She said, yes, I want to get to Paddington

10:13

station to catch a train to Bristol. Ricky

10:16

told her to jump into the truck and she got

10:18

in between us. Ricky put her

10:20

suitcase in the back of the truck. We

10:23

rode out of London along the river. She

10:26

said her name was Tablo. It's

10:28

interesting because obviously her name was Violet. Because

10:31

she was dark and Ricky

10:34

stopped the truck and

10:36

drove to the grass very close to the river,

10:38

I know there were trees

10:40

there. So this is a Bellwier

10:43

lock. So she's missed most of the

10:45

journey there. She's also missed out

10:47

the fact that, don't forget, Ricky says that

10:49

it was her decision to pick up

10:51

a girl and assault a girl. So we'll

10:54

never really know the truth on this because both of

10:56

them are blaming each other. It kind of got to

10:58

that point where it was like, right, we're going to

11:00

blame each other. Okay,

11:03

so she just arrived at Bellwier lock.

11:06

He said he had stopped because he

11:08

had a flat tire. I told the

11:10

woman that I was his wife. We

11:13

all got out of the truck and there was a

11:15

flat tire, the

11:17

near side back one. Ricky looked

11:19

for some tools, couldn't

11:21

find what he wanted, and then we got back

11:23

into the truck and drove on a short way.

11:27

I noticed that Ricky was looking around

11:29

as he was driving. Suddenly he swung

11:31

the lorry around in the opposite direction

11:33

and stopped on the grass. He asked the girl

11:35

and I to get down. Let me

11:38

just change page number three.

11:41

Bear with, bear with. And

11:47

he said he had to change the wheel. I

11:50

know he couldn't change the wheel because the lorry was

11:53

too heavy to lift. I mean, it's a two and

11:55

a half ton truck. It's not something he could have

11:57

done by himself. He called me round to

11:59

the back of the truck. the lorry and said to

12:01

me, get the girls back to me. I

12:04

understood him to mean that he wanted me

12:07

to fix it so that the girl had her

12:09

back to him. I realised that

12:11

he meant to do something to the girl and

12:13

I said, okay, as you do,

12:15

you just say, oh okay, you're going to assault a

12:17

girl, oh okay. I offered him,

12:19

don't forget in this point, she's already kind of made

12:21

it clear to

12:24

the police that

12:26

he threatened her and that's why she

12:28

went along with it, but he

12:30

also is saying that she's

12:33

the one goading him along. So again with

12:35

this, we'll

12:37

read Ricky's statements as well, but it's kind

12:39

of like, it's hard to really pin down

12:42

who is telling the truth and who is the one

12:44

that's leading this, who is one frightened

12:46

of the other. In my honest

12:48

opinion, I think it's a bad chemistry. I think

12:50

he's trying to impress her, I

12:53

think she's goading him. Whether

12:55

she thinks he'll go that far or whether

12:57

she wants him to go that far, whether

12:59

he even knows that he can

13:01

go that far, are you killing someone? I think

13:05

there's a lot of miscommunication, I

13:07

think there's a lot of bad

13:09

chemistry, I think there's a lot going on

13:11

between them. Or kind of like Hindley

13:14

and Brady,

13:17

I think there's a

13:19

lot of badness going there within them. So

13:23

let's dive on. She said,

13:25

okay, I offered the girl

13:28

a cigarette and I gave her a

13:30

light with my lighter, trying to do

13:32

what Ricky had told me to do,

13:34

but I think she

13:36

must have heard what Ricky had said to

13:38

me because she would not turn her back

13:40

to him. I said quietly

13:42

to Ricky, I think she is wise

13:45

to it. The person here has

13:47

written the word wide to it. Ricky

13:50

asked me in a loud voice to get

13:52

some tools or other. I forget what from

13:54

behind the seat of the truck. So I

13:56

went to the seat of the truck but

13:58

couldn't find any. The

14:01

girl had heard Ricky call me Georgie

14:03

by name and while I

14:05

was at the seat of the truck I

14:08

heard her shout out Georgie don't let him

14:10

do it. I saw that

14:13

he was attacking her and she

14:15

yelled again stop him. They

14:18

were right behind me and Ricky asked me to

14:20

help him. Ricky got

14:23

her down on the ground and I held her

14:25

legs. When I looked down on

14:27

the grass I saw what appeared to be a heavy

14:30

looking iron bar with a sort of knob in

14:32

the middle of it. It was

14:34

a tire iron for undoing

14:38

the lug nuts on the truck's wheels.

14:41

Ricky then put his hands around my neck and

14:43

I thought he was strangling her. She

14:46

made a gurgling sound and I saw blood coming

14:48

from her mouth and her head was bleeding. She

14:51

was struggling and Ricky tightened his grip around

14:53

her throat. I still held

14:55

onto her legs and Ricky took hold of

14:57

her throat for about 10 minutes before

15:00

she became limp. I thought

15:02

she was dead then. Ricky

15:04

said I'm going to throw her into the river.

15:07

He picked her up. He picked

15:09

up her shoulders. I picked up her legs

15:11

and we carried her to the edge of

15:13

the river but I told Ricky do not

15:15

throw her in and we left her

15:18

there. So she's saying we left her

15:20

on the side of the bank. If

15:22

you remember the story I don't think they

15:24

either of them knew that at that time

15:26

of the evening you were kind of going

15:28

from high tide to low tides actually. It

15:30

was kind of redundant. Ricky

15:33

then went back and picked up the iron bar and threw

15:35

that into the river with a splash. We

15:38

then made sure there was nothing lying on

15:40

the ground and drove away. Obviously

15:43

she doesn't mention anything about laughing

15:45

and going through the stuff.

15:49

This is why I want to do both statements because what

15:53

I try to do with the episode

15:55

is try and tell you the more

15:57

factual side of what is most likely

15:59

to happen. have happened and also a little bit

16:01

of perspective in there but with these

16:03

statements this is kind of their own personal version

16:05

which is why you should never wholeheartedly

16:08

believe a statement because it's not it's not gonna

16:10

be a hundred percent true let me just have

16:12

a swig of water normal

16:16

I don't do this much talking but here

16:19

we go this is page three we'll do one

16:21

more page then we'll take a break I think

16:23

you deserve one oh right before we drove away

16:25

oh I can't even say the words before we

16:27

drove away before we drove

16:30

away Ricky told me to search her

16:32

pockets and I found about six shillings

16:34

in our coat pocket which I gave

16:36

to Ricky I looked in the girls

16:38

handbag which had been

16:40

left on the seat as we drove along

16:43

after only finding papers and photographs Ricky

16:45

threw them away out of the truck

16:47

window the handbag is in my flat

16:49

at the moment it is in the

16:52

wardrobe did

16:55

she keep it there because she wanted it as a

16:57

souvenir or did she keep it there because she wanted

17:00

it to implicate Ricky we

17:02

drove back to my flat and Ricky

17:04

took the girls suitcase and blanket from

17:06

the truck into my room Ricky then

17:08

took the truck away and came back

17:11

within a short time and told me he'd left

17:13

the truck in Ravenscourt Park which is not too

17:15

far away we went to

17:18

my room and examined the contents of the suitcase

17:21

the suitcase and part of the stuff I

17:23

see in this room so that's

17:25

the interrogation room that she's

17:27

in with the police the questioning room

17:29

inverted commas is part of

17:31

the stuff which belongs to the girl after

17:34

examining the suitcase Ricky and I went to bed

17:36

the only thing you haven't got is the handbag

17:39

and the coat which is in my room soon

17:42

after we got into Ricky soon

17:45

after we got in sorry there's no

17:47

comma there that would have

17:49

been a very difficult story story soon after we

17:51

got into Ricky soon after we

17:53

got in Ricky noticed a

17:55

very large patch on each of

17:57

his trouser leg and on the the

18:00

jacket he was wearing and

18:02

he said you'll have to go and

18:05

take it take my valice tomorrow let's

18:08

go to page four it's the last one

18:11

and then we'll take

18:13

a break I'll take

18:15

a break just before we get to this end of

18:18

this statement okay we

18:20

stopped in bed until 10 to 3 in

18:23

on Friday afternoon and got up he

18:26

then gave me the railway cloakroom ticket and

18:28

he asked me to go to Hammersmith Metropolitan

18:30

Station to get the Valus

18:32

the Valus meaning it meaning the his army

18:34

bag I did as he asked

18:36

me to do and brought back the Valus he

18:39

took out a pair of trousers out of the

18:41

Valus and put the blood-stained trousers back in their

18:43

place the blood-stained trousers

18:46

are in the Valus the American officer took them

18:48

away when you called this morning so that was

18:50

Dr. Robert De Mott who

18:52

was the the American lawyer on behalf of

18:54

the the US military who turned up he

18:59

I Ricky went out at 4 30

19:01

p.m. and promised to call me at about 6

19:03

o'clock he didn't come and I stayed

19:05

in at about 11 30

19:07

p.m. I heard a whistle coming from the

19:09

street outside and I went down to the

19:12

street door because I recognized it was Ricky's

19:14

whistle this was an arrangement

19:16

we had made previously he

19:19

had come indoors and then said

19:21

come on let's go and get a taxi I knew

19:24

the meaning behind his words that he wanted

19:27

to go with me to rob a taxi

19:29

taxi cab driver

19:31

okay so this is leading up

19:34

to the murder

19:36

of George Heath now what

19:39

I did was with the episode the George

19:41

Heath episode was I kind of told it

19:43

all from his perspective Heath's perspective because I

19:45

wanted it to be his story but what

19:47

that meant is I couldn't tell you how

19:50

George he saw it and how Ricky saw it

19:52

I'm using their aliases now but that's what we're

19:55

gonna see here is kind of their perspective of

19:57

it we we

19:59

walked along Hammersmith Road and stood on

20:01

a shop doorway opposite Cadby Hall.

20:03

So that is on Hammersmith Road

20:05

in the corner of Munson Street.

20:09

If you're a Patreon subscriber I've uploaded

20:11

photographs of that corner. I

20:15

also did a little video as well, it's on

20:17

TikTok, you can have a look at that.

20:19

After about 10 minutes a grey Ford

20:21

car approached us very slowly like a

20:24

taxi cab. It was coming

20:26

from the direction of Hammersmith Broadway. I

20:28

yelled, taxi and it stopped. Ricky

20:31

thought it was a naval car, don't forget

20:33

this is a private hire cab, not a

20:35

black cab. Black cabs are very specific kind

20:38

of types. If you're

20:40

a private hire you can use any type. So

20:42

Ricky thought it was kind of a military car.

20:45

Ricky thought it was a naval car and Ricky

20:47

stopped in the shop doorway while I went over

20:49

to speak to the driver. I said

20:52

are you a taxi and he said private hire

20:54

where do you want to go? I replied wait

20:56

a minute and went back to Ricky. I

20:59

told him it was a private hire and

21:01

he asked me how many men were in

21:03

it. I told him only the driver so

21:05

he went across to the car and Ricky

21:07

asked the driver to take us

21:10

up to the top of King Street. I

21:13

know now that the driver was called George

21:15

Heath for reasons I will tell you later.

21:18

He told Ricky that the fare would

21:20

be about 10 shillings and Ricky said

21:22

that's alright. I know that

21:24

Ricky had 19 shillings in his pocket

21:26

and that he also had 10 shillings and

21:28

threepence. We got into the car

21:30

and drove down King Street. After

21:32

a while Heath said we passed King

21:35

Street where do you want to go?

21:37

Ricky said it's farther on I don't

21:39

mind paying more. Heath seemed

21:41

cross but drove on and

21:44

when we came to the roundabout so that's

21:46

the Chiswick roundabout Heath said this is Great

21:49

West Road. Ricky

21:53

and I were sitting in the back seat

21:56

of a saloon car and as we got

21:58

into the Great West Road Ricky

22:00

told Heath to drive slowly, and when

22:02

we had travelled about 300 yards

22:05

before reaching a bridge, Ricky

22:07

said to Heath, We'll

22:09

get out here, and Heath stopped. Just

22:13

as we were passing the roundabout, I heard

22:15

a click, and saw that Ricky had his

22:17

automatic, that is, his pistol, in his right

22:19

hand. I realised that Ricky

22:21

was going to frighten the driver with his

22:23

gun, and to take his money, because we

22:25

had passed my house on the way. So,

22:31

I think we need a break. I'm going to stop it here. Immediately

22:34

after this, I'm going to upload part

22:36

two, so you can listen to part two. 20

22:39

minute chunks, I think that's enough, isn't it? Otherwise,

22:42

my throat is about to die, and I think I need a

22:44

cup of tea. So, come

22:46

back for part two, and we'll

22:48

finish the second part of Elizabeth's

22:50

Statements. Thank you for supporting

22:52

the show, folks. Stay safe. Lots of love. Bye-bye.

22:58

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