This second installment of a two-part episode is a part of a new segment of the Mutuality Matters podcast, hosted by Tara and Todd Korpi. We’re joined by Andrew Bartlett and Terran Williams, two biblical teachers who have written extensively on women and the church. In this episode, Andrew and Terran discuss the concept of the 'tiebreaker rule' in marriage and argue for a mutualist perspective that emphasizes equal partnership over hierarchy. They talk about Junia as an apostle in Romans 16:7 and dispel common misconceptions about Paul's views on women, underscoring his empowerment of women leaders in the early church. 

00:00 Welcome to Mutuality Matters: Exploring Gender Equality in Leadership 

00:34 Debunking the Tiebreaker Rule in Marriage 

01:15 Mutualism in Practice: Real-Life Marriage Dynamics 

04:21 Scriptural Insights on Mutual Decision-Making 

05:05 Junia's Role and Women's Leadership in the Early Church 

11:14 Paul's Example: Empowering Women in Ministry 

14:32 Final Thoughts: Encouragement for Men and Women in Leadership 

19:26 Connecting with the Speakers and Further Resources 

20:59 Closing Remarks and Invitation to Support CBE International 

Bios 

Andrew Bartlett QC is based in London and is a highly rated international arbitrator with a wide range of experience in dispute resolution in numerous locations. He has a BA in Theology (University of Gloucestershire) and has served as an elder and a churchwarden in various churches. He is the author of Men and Women in Christ: Fresh Light From Biblical Texts. 

Terran Williams is a seasoned pastor, church planter, and Bible teacher to skeptics and believers alike. He authored Biblica’s Reach4Life youth Bible, with a print of three million copies in 30 languages, What’s so Amazing about Scripture, and How God Sees Women: The End of Patriarchy. 

 Related Resources 

How God Sees Women: The End of Patriarchy 

Men and Women in Christ: Fresh Light From Biblical Texts 

Andrew and Terran’s “Response to Mike Winger” 

Terranwilliams.com 

Disclaimer 

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.