Episode Transcript
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0:03
Welcome back to MVP Real Estate Podcast,
0:06
season four, episode three. We have Michael Van Evry from San Jose,
0:12
california, with Republic Urban Properties,
0:16
wealth of knowledge in real estate. He is gone.
0:19
He said he was 55, now 55, yeah, hadn't
0:22
into his golden years. We talk a lot about, obviously, the
0:27
differential between locations in California, austin, wisconsin, trends that
0:32
he's seeing. He's heavy in the commercial real estate
0:35
market, dabble a little bit in residential
0:38
before, and we kind of go through, I guess,
0:41
the cycle of what they focus on within their company and what their horizon looks
0:47
like going into spring or end of 2024.
0:51
So before we give away the whole show, we'll bring them in.
0:54
I will welcome this show, michael, thanks for giving us the time.
0:57
Thank you very much. Thank you, we are going to jump right into
1:01
this. You are currently working and you've
1:05
started a company, republic Urban
1:07
Properties, which I have a bunch of questions on because I was reading before
1:10
the show and you have amassed a lot of
1:14
properties and a lot of projects there. But before you got there, if you could give
1:20
us like a little brief review or summary of
1:23
what got you to be in this position you're in today?
1:26
Sure Well, again, thanks for having me. Guys Appreciate it.
1:29
Yeah, I think it's kind of a local story
1:32
about a guy that grew up in San Jose.
1:34
His family was involved in local grocery
1:37
stores, so always connected to local politics and, as bait would have it, local
1:42
politics served as my vehicle into the
1:45
first home building industry, working for
1:48
some of the great home builders, like Steve Schott, former owner of the Oakland A's
1:52
company called Citation Homes, but also on
1:55
the advocacy side of the building industry
1:57
association here in California, and that
2:01
eventually that led to my desire to really
2:03
build. You know, on the infill parcels I was
2:06
trying to. I was tired of building, you know, on
2:09
outlier places. You know the old saying pay paradise to put
2:14
up a parking lot. That's kind of what I was doing and my
2:17
longing was for to build cities and so when
2:20
the opportunity, people started looking
2:22
more infill opportunities. But when the opportunity came about for
2:26
Republic urban properties, it actually
2:29
happened through the Santa Clara County
2:31
Building and Trains Association. They were the one that recommended me to my
2:35
partner, richard L Kramer, in 2006.
2:39
And really the rest is history. I've been here since 2006, really as his
2:44
managing partner, and that's been a
2:46
privilege.
2:47
That's awesome, and we've had a couple of people on some developers and they talk
2:52
about subdivisions and subdividing lots.
2:56
But you're talking bigger than that. You're talking cities, which is super
3:00
impressive, and obviously you've mentioned
3:04
it before. Working within politics with that, you are
3:07
going to have to be in close communication,
3:09
I would imagine, with city planners and in
3:12
people in that that department. Do you find that as an easy path because
3:20
you've been in politics for so long, or was
3:22
there a learning curve getting into the
3:25
bigger infrastructure than that?
3:26
Yeah, that's a fantastic question Because I think in California to be a well-rounded
3:33
developer you really have to have a very
3:38
background in understanding how each local
3:41
government works. And what's crazy in California in
3:44
particular is every local government works
3:48
differently. There's foundational parts of local
3:51
government, through municipal codes, that are consistent, but the way they may
3:56
process a project or, of course, how their
3:59
general plans are approved are vastly
4:01
different. The state of California is trying to do a
4:05
more uniform building process.
4:08
It's been difficult, but certainly my
4:11
background in local politics and my
4:14
involvement in philanthropic matters, both
4:16
my wife and I we're very fortunate to be
4:19
able to know not just the city planners,
4:23
but ultimately we try to work hard to be in
4:26
community-based organizations that are affiliated with key decision makers.
4:31
That's awesome and it sounds like you've
4:34
always been in commercial, because along
4:37
the building side, in knowing your city
4:41
planners, commercial real estate is a whole
4:44
different entity than residential. It is so to have some background in
4:50
commercial real estate, like you did at a young age, and know the city planners, I'm
4:54
sure kind of helped you into the role
4:57
you're in, I would imagine.
5:00
In a little bit of reversal. I was actually in the whole building side
5:03
first.
5:04
Oh really.
5:05
Yeah, and that was doing those classic 6,
5:09
8,000 square foot lots, building roads and
5:13
sewer and infrastructure For large baking.
5:18
Smaller cities, bigger, pretty large cities
5:21
like the city of Salinas here in our
5:24
agricultural belt, in Monterey County,
5:26
california. And then again that background, though
5:31
translated to commercial, but it was a
5:34
rethinking of how the financial side of the
5:40
projects were vastly different selling
5:43
single family homes, obviously, than, say,
5:46
building and renting commercial real estate
5:48
of all types. Vastly different and more intense, I would
5:53
say, on the commercial side. But it's nice to have a touch point for
5:58
both disciplines, whether you know home building or commercial real estate.
6:02
But now, as a 55 year old male, I'm
6:05
probably more in tune with commercial real
6:07
estate and how that that functions
6:10
financially.
6:11
Yeah, and that's what I've heard. It is vastly different from your
6:14
perspective. Because I couldn't excuse me, I couldn't
6:18
weigh in on this one because I have no experience on the commercial side.
6:22
Yeah, what do you think in your history or
6:24
your background has been the biggest difference between the residential and the
6:30
commercial side? Second, question.
6:32
First, I think it's just how it's approved
6:35
and so obviously you have a lot or multiple
6:41
lots where you either buy the land or you
6:44
buy the airspace, and so how the state of
6:48
California treats the mapping and ownership
6:51
process is vastly different from commercial,
6:54
where you'll only have one building, one
6:56
lot. So it's really that simple.
6:59
It comes down to subdivision of the land
7:02
and then of course, how how finance works.
7:05
You know, obviously you own a building, but
7:09
you probably hope 65% of that building to
7:12
commercial real estate, to a bank, I guess
7:15
not that much different than when you own a home, but it's just, I think, an ownership
7:19
difference more than anything in a mapping difference in California.
7:23
But the business models are totally different, much different.
7:27
In particular, after the financial crisis of 2008, home-golding shifted vastly for
7:33
home builders the way they accept deposits
7:36
and the way they sell, you know, and develop land to where commercial real
7:41
estate is probably staying pretty consistent in its model, although those
7:44
models are changing every day now with new
7:47
financial hurdles like interest rates.
7:50
But they're very similar but very different,
7:53
as you noted.
7:54
Yeah, and I always note when I'm trying to
7:57
bring up examples of how commercial and residential are different, like I always
8:01
bring up the Walgreens system that they've
8:05
got, where Walgreens doesn't own any of the
8:07
buildings I believe their parent company
8:12
owns it but Walgreens brand leases to
8:14
themself. So there's a lot more, I don't know
8:20
flexibility. I call commercial real estate the Wild West
8:23
Because I feel like you can honestly do what you want as long as your paperwork is
8:27
good, but it's not as regulated as, let's
8:33
just say, the residential market.
8:35
Yeah, the model you mentioned also is how
8:38
the wealth was built in McDonald's same
8:40
situation. Oh, really, yeah, if you've ever watched
8:44
the movie the Founder, michael Keaton's
8:46
character, of course, ray Kroc. That's how he became a billionaire by
8:50
owning all of his land and leasing back
8:53
that land and building to his operators.
8:57
But it's a great model because it enriches both the landowner, the building owner and,
9:02
in most cases, the operator of the business.
9:05
And, to your point, that's how commercial real estate really touches so many
9:09
different people, whereas home building is
9:12
really affecting the homeowner, maybe their
9:15
neighbors, and then, of course, the developer exits and that's the end of it,
9:19
whereas commercial real estate we're in it
9:22
for the long haul, sometimes for the best
9:25
case, sometimes for the worst case. But yeah, I love the way you characterize
9:28
the Wild West, in particular today. It is truly the Wild West.
9:33
Yeah, there's ups and there's downs right
9:37
now in the market, at least here in Wisconsin, with commercial real estate.
9:40
Sure, rick and Mortar, at least this area
9:44
is hurting.
9:45
Yes.
9:45
Is that what you're seeing out in San Jose as well?
9:48
Oh yes, post pandemic and low interest
9:54
rates, there has been a tectonic shift in
9:58
commercial real estate of all types, whether it's a cost factor, a use factor or
10:07
even just kind of a what is this building going to be for the long term factor, it's
10:12
just, there's so much has changed, but in
10:14
particular the cost side, and it's interesting to hear you say that for a
10:18
place like Wisconsin or Chicago where construction costs are typically lower than,
10:24
say, here in California. But now here in California the replacement
10:28
costs for a new building, really, say, for
10:32
an office building in particular, but even
10:34
apartments, round up hotels, and it's just
10:38
long story short, you just cannot construct
10:41
a new commercial real estate building today
10:44
and expect it to reach those financial
10:47
matrix hurdles that capital markets expect.
10:51
So in short, there's just not a lot of new
10:54
ground up market rate projects that are
10:58
underway right now here in the Bay Area and
11:00
the greater part of California. That's not to say it's everywhere, but it's
11:04
very difficult with the cost side now with
11:06
interest rates being what they're at. And then we've seen a tremendous amount of
11:10
cooling off for apartment rents.
11:13
That's a national average in fact, unless you're in the Southeast or maybe Arizona,
11:18
but they have that hyperinflation. So it's difficult, it's a very difficult
11:23
market and it probably will stay this way
11:25
for at least another year, in my opinion.
11:30
Yeah, that's what? Sorry, it sounds a lot like how the
11:34
residential market is Like. You're getting priced out of being able to
11:38
buy the fix and flips or the fixer uppers
11:41
to rent them out, and then you're trying to
11:44
figure out the numbers aligned, like you
11:46
said, with the matrix of what you expect on
11:49
return and how quickly.
11:50
Yeah, true, you bring up a good point that
11:53
that's been another, actually to some
11:55
extent a commercial business, where you are
11:57
fixing properties and either renting them
12:01
or selling them, but you have a little bit
12:03
more chance on something that's existing
12:06
and doing a value add. I think that's where most of the capital
12:09
markets are on the equity side, but also
12:12
tremendous programs on the debt side would
12:14
say, hey, you have a structure of building
12:18
or what have you that you want to reinvent
12:21
or you want to advance, or maybe you want
12:23
to create an affordable situation. That part of the capital markets is still
12:28
moving pretty well. But again you see an obsolete piece of
12:33
property that has a great piece of land and you want to blade that and go vertical.
12:38
I don't care what commercial asset it is.
12:41
It's almost impossible right now, at least
12:44
in March of 2024.
12:47
And it's so timely that you bring that up,
12:49
because down the street we have a company
12:53
that's here in Wisconsin. They bought up a couple of commercial unit
12:57
buildings that were not historic to our
13:00
town, but on the older side they tore them
13:04
down. I believe it was July, august of last year.
13:11
They were supposed to, over the winter, get prepped for build and they've since called
13:15
the project off for at least a year because
13:18
they can't get funding to work. All the build costs have escalated to the
13:22
point where they can't even build them.
13:26
Yeah, it's a virus right now that the
13:29
industry has and I'm not sure what is going
13:33
to break loose. In terms of what will it be?
13:36
A lower interest rate because right now,
13:39
just from a financial perspective, if your
13:42
return on cost on a commercial project, say,
13:46
is 5%, that's too low because the cap rate
13:51
or the value that the building's actually worth, you can't have a 5% cap rate and a
13:57
5% return on cost that the capital markets
14:00
on the equity side will not accept that. So they want to see about a 0.5% above that
14:05
cap rate or a 6.5% return on cost and a 5%
14:09
cap.
14:11
And that would be bare minimum.
14:13
Bare minimum and we have projects that are
14:15
6%, 6.5% above a cap rate and just zero
14:21
interest. It's interesting, without naming names, I
14:25
spoke to a very prominent family who owns a
14:29
lot of hotels in Chicago and they're not
14:32
hurting for money, but they are just
14:36
sitting on the sidelines and they're not
14:39
interested and they have real estate in every single part of the United States.
14:43
They have a very large presence in San Francisco, as they do in Chicago, and they
14:49
just kind of hang in tight. I spoke to this great guy yesterday who
14:52
runs their San Francisco office and he's
14:55
like I don't know why we're not investing because there's good projects to invest in.
14:59
I just know that we're not and it's frustrating, and so it's just like who's
15:05
going to fire that starter spistle to bring
15:08
back wealth and commercial real estate? Because there's billions sitting on the
15:12
sidelines, guys, and the question is when
15:15
will that re-enter the market so we can get
15:17
going back on our city building, which has
15:21
been interrupted entirely by the pandemic
15:24
and has created a whole new kind of pattern
15:27
of migration and growth throughout this country?
15:30
Yeah, and I'm interested to see which
15:33
companies or what industries go back to
15:36
brick and mortar, because before the COVID
15:40
shutdown those mixed-use office buildings
15:44
where you could have a common space but then each company would kind of have their
15:48
own little office, I felt like those were
15:51
growing and now everybody's working at home.
15:54
And then obviously everybody boosted up
15:57
their delivery wing of their company.
16:00
So those storage, those industrial buildings have now kind of shrunk because
16:04
everything's delivery truck now. That's my worry for commercial is
16:10
everything is just going to kind of fade,
16:12
and I'm hoping it doesn't, because those
16:15
are important industries. That's what brings cities together, is the
16:19
companies.
16:21
Yeah, I think for a long time me personally
16:24
I was angry about the policies that was
16:30
just basically dictated to us by the health
16:32
officials in most of our counties, which
16:34
really shut down everything that you just
16:38
mentioned. And then, as we reopened, technology as
16:44
we're witnessing here in this podcast has
16:46
emerged as a more effective deliverable of
16:49
how people work and communicate, and so we
16:52
have a complete paradigm shift from going
16:56
to the office. So I don't think the dye has yet finalized
17:01
or cast on what does this look like, but I
17:04
think we all intuitively know how we're
17:06
feeling that and the evidence appears that
17:09
the hybrid will be standard for the large
17:13
companies and here in the Bay Area.
17:16
The easy ones are the Googles, the Apples,
17:18
the Intuites and the Navideas. Those companies have adopted, effectively,
17:25
models that allow their employees to have
17:27
flexibility, but that's great for them.
17:31
But it hurts people in our industry who
17:35
have been landlords and who have
17:38
essentially built these cities, because we had such a renaissance post-2008 of city
17:45
building and transit-oriented development and now we're finding that the daytime
17:53
population in San Francisco, san Jose,
17:55
oakland, los Angeles depending on where you're at is vastly different.
18:00
So a reinvention of those spaces,
18:02
especially on the office hotel side, is
18:05
underway and I would say, with the capital
18:07
markets and the things we just previously
18:11
discussed on cost, it is a barrier of entry
18:15
to reconfiguring, reimagining our city.
18:21
So I'm sure you guys have heard the saying
18:24
and I try to, since it's a Friday, let's be
18:27
a little humorous. There is a model in our industry, which is
18:30
what you've heard survive in 25, to see if
18:34
we can start a new process of city building
18:37
and a reinvention of the spaces now that
18:39
have been abandoned as a result of a remote
18:42
work.
18:43
Yeah, and I was going to ask you.
18:46
I don't want you to spill the beans of your
18:49
secret sauce of how you guys at Republic
18:52
Urban Properties are reinventing or
18:54
integrating.
18:55
Yeah Well, there's no secrets in commercial
18:58
real estate there isn't.
19:00
So I guess I will straight out ask what are
19:03
some things that you guys are doing with
19:05
some of your buildings, because from what I
19:07
read and I might be off on my information
19:11
you guys do a lot of multi-use. So, it's not just straight storefront, it
19:16
might be a storefront on the lower and rental units above.
19:20
Are those some of the things that you guys are adopting in your builds or in your
19:23
renovations to help kind of like lessen the
19:29
burden? Or in the residential space.
19:32
I'll say if you have a single family home and you have a vacancy, you are 100% vacant.
19:38
If you have a multifamily and you have a vacancy, you may be 25% vacant.
19:42
So that's a big liability on the single
19:47
family side and I would say that as a
19:49
commercial space, if you have a storefront
19:51
and there is vacancy, you are 100% vacant.
19:56
Yeah, and you bring up a good point in particular with these storefronts.
19:59
So storefronts between, say, 1500 feet and
20:03
5000 feet. These are small businesses and so what we
20:08
are. It's very difficult for small business
20:11
owners to get loans, and so we do have one
20:15
couple of large retail mixed use properties
20:20
and mixed use whatever reason.
20:23
An apartment above, say, in the case of
20:26
Milbury, california. It's really dependent on location and you
20:30
tend to get more of the corporations that
20:32
come into some of these good locations.
20:35
So that part of the mixed use for whatever
20:37
reasons, easier On a standalone basis, say
20:40
a strip retail. If you don't have an anchor tenant like a
20:44
Safeway or a Crowders or something that's
20:47
anchoring that shopping center, it is very
20:50
difficult to attract a number of users,
20:56
especially between, say, 1500 feet and 5000
20:59
feet. It's extraordinarily difficult, especially
21:02
if you're doing a new build, because that
21:05
means you better bring that new build to a warm shell, which means you have their
21:09
bathrooms, all the drywall and all the HVAC
21:13
system ready to go. If you don't, it's a struggle and I can say
21:17
that firsthand that we've struggled, going
21:19
from getting saying all right, here's a cold shell space, just the walls, no
21:24
bathrooms, none of the things I mentioned, none of the HVAC, none of the drywall.
21:30
It's a big deal for a small business to go from zero to a warm shell and building that
21:36
out. My life's just turned off here, so it's
21:39
probably no.
21:39
But the lighting looks like you're in a movie scene.
21:43
Oh, good, good it looks great.
21:46
Will we call it Godfather, or will we call
21:49
it one of my favorite Dumb and Dumber?
21:52
We'll have to figure out what movie Up to
21:54
Time Machine.
21:55
Wow.
21:57
But anyway you told him you had one right. Yeah, exactly.
22:01
In short, retail is a very difficult
22:04
commercial real estate asset and it
22:07
requires a ton of capital by the owner
22:10
Landlord. They have a ton of investment by the tenant,
22:13
and boy, you better make sure you pick the right tenant. I can tell you from experience I picked the
22:17
tenants really good tenants, and I picked
22:21
so not so good tenants and ones you would
22:24
think would have succeeded. That just great business plans would have
22:28
been amazing if they would have just had this place open.
22:31
But they couldn't go from zero to open
22:33
because they couldn't get the financial wherewithal in the loans that they need
22:37
small business-wise to make it happen. So it's a tough retail's a tough commercial
22:41
industry right now.
22:43
Yeah, and from what the little I know from
22:45
commercial, those staple tenants that you
22:48
said early on are important to that whole
22:51
shopping center. Oh yeah, because I mean that's a heavy
22:56
chunk of you. It may not be 100% of your fillable space,
23:00
but that's a large chunk of your profit.
23:03
Oh yeah, and if they leave the sale cycle
23:06
to get a new person in is so much longer,
23:09
like we think. On the residential side, like I'm gonna
23:11
list my house, someone will talk within 60
23:14
days we'll get a new owner title will
23:16
change. But even a rental unit, you put it up on
23:20
the market for a couple of months maybe and you get a tenant.
23:23
The commercial side it is a long sale cycle,
23:27
so there's a lot of holding costs and a lot
23:29
of nerves that go in. So that is a very stressful point to be in.
23:35
Thanks, for reminding me.
23:37
It is. It is you're, so I think you just captured
23:40
it beautifully. You know, I just sent a note to my this
23:45
5,000 square foot free-in restaurant.
23:49
He's got a permit ready to pick up. He's supposed to start paying rent in July
23:55
and he's been in contract with me now almost a year.
23:57
He hasn't started construction and it's
24:01
yeah. So there's a lot of sleepless nights, you
24:03
know, worrying about those type of tenants, and we do everything to help them.
24:08
You give them large tenant improvement allowances I'm talking several hundred
24:12
thousand dollars and yet sometimes that's
24:15
still not enough to get that business from.
24:18
You know, again, what we explained from cold show the warm show, the open, and so
24:22
it is. It's a I would tell you that the Republic.
24:26
You know a business plan. You know that was a business plan that we
24:28
started in 2016, 17, where everything
24:31
looked great, and again, once the pandemic
24:34
changed, and once it changed it forever,
24:37
and then interest rates now have really been our bugaboo.
24:41
You know, for small business, I don't again
24:43
I'm going back to our original kind of discussion on what's going to start, what's
24:47
not going to start. Within cities, I don't see a lot of new
24:50
retail and certainly office across the
24:54
country. I can't even see a day right now where
24:57
there would be demand for a new office building For exactly those reasons that you
25:00
mentioned.
25:02
Yeah, and the supply is up. So to build a new one, you're, yeah, kind
25:06
of just go take what is available, correct?
25:12
You had mentioned, or I read on the
25:16
background of the company and you guys were doing smart growth projects.
25:21
Can you explain what you mean by smart
25:24
growth projects? I don't know if that fills in with things
25:28
that you've got going on or if that is a
25:30
completely entirely thing, entirely
25:32
different thing, but I feel like it kind of
25:37
alludes to what you're trying to do to ease the tension of what's going on in the
25:40
commercial market.
25:43
Yeah, smart. Smart's an open-ended kind of definition,
25:47
maybe subjective to what you're applying it
25:50
to. I guess in California and I think we should
25:55
probably change the narrative from smart, sustainable and sociologically kind of in
26:02
fit there's a real movement.
26:05
As you probably know, california, we do
26:08
have a tremendous amount of wealth, and in
26:12
Silicon Valley there's a right, wrong or
26:14
indifferent because there is costs
26:16
associated with smart or sustainable and
26:20
green, whatever narrative you want to paint
26:23
it with. But there clearly is an effort to work
26:27
climate control into new development, and
26:31
that's the thing about new development. It's always the test case for providing
26:38
smart, sustainable, green, whatever you
26:41
want to apply, and so real examples of that
26:44
are now here in California. Again, these come with costs.
26:49
So I'm just reporting the news in that
26:52
we're forced in most cases to do smart
26:56
growth, which I think long-term is best for
27:00
the environment. But, for example, now in California, in
27:03
most cities everything is electric.
27:06
So if I want to build a mixed-use project,
27:10
my water heaters or my boiler it has to be
27:13
electric. My ground floor retail with my chef has to
27:18
be electric. That's not necessarily something chefs want
27:21
to hear when they're not going to attract a
27:23
marquee restaurant to a destination. So that's one example.
27:27
They call it the Greenpoint Energy Standards here that we have.
27:31
But I think then there's the when you get
27:33
back to what I would define as smart it's.
27:37
Most people would agree because they
27:40
probably thought the same thing. You walk by that corner gas station that
27:45
was shuttered. They pulled the tanks out.
27:48
What should be on that corner? And it gets back to.
27:51
Okay, maybe there's a bus stop there or
27:54
there's a rail stop or there's something
27:56
that we need to put in there as an infill
27:58
project commercial, hotel, office building
28:03
not likely anymore, but certainly for
28:05
somewhere so people to live, to be in that
28:07
community. So again, I think smart may be overused,
28:12
but I would say that it's a blue sky thing
28:14
to make sure that you're putting in the
28:16
right type of development for that neighborhood, for that city, but also going
28:21
a step further and you probably are making
28:23
sure that it hits all of those
28:26
environmentally sustainable items that you can hit without it overburning the project
28:31
to be unfinanceable. And so solar, now charging stations.
28:37
I think these are all things that people want and expect and need if we are going to
28:43
somehow combat climate change on some level.
28:46
That's again whether you fall down in your political narrative, whether you agree with
28:50
that or not. I think that's in our community now as
28:54
developers. That's considered smart, those types, okay
28:58
okay, if that's where I wasn't sure of it.
29:00
What's that?
29:01
I just have a random idea, like you know
29:03
how charging stations, right, like they're normally tied to, like shopping malls or
29:08
like dealerships, or sometimes municipal
29:11
buildings or city buildings, right, why not
29:15
convert old gas stations, like you said,
29:18
where they pull the tanks but in charging
29:20
stations? I don't know how much that costs, I'm sure it's a pretty big amount.
29:24
But then add, like activity centers Once
29:27
they start charging their car, they get a code they can enter a gated like basketball
29:32
court, tennis courts, pickleball courts, like something to pass the time, instead of
29:36
them just sitting in their car waiting for the car to charge, cause sometimes it could
29:40
take 45 minutes an hour. Right, like again.
29:44
I've been loosely following like electric
29:46
vehicles and what they require, and some
29:49
have gotten better with their quick charge to 80%, but it's still you're just sitting
29:53
around. So why not do something while you're doing nothing?
29:56
I don't know like.
29:57
I love your idea and I think a little known
30:02
fact a Shell Oil Company just purchased
30:04
some of the larger charging stations, so I
30:07
think they have to start putting charging
30:10
stations on gas stations, that's just. They have to do it.
30:13
There's a little concern and there's engineering related to gas versus
30:17
electricity. That makes sense, but they'll figure that
30:20
out. But I like where you're going with your idea on.
30:24
That has to be integrated into commercial projects, in particular, maybe retail
30:29
themed projects like you're talking about,
30:32
and it's funny you mentioned that because
30:35
there are a number of great pickleball concepts.
30:39
Tesla is making massive investments in the
30:42
infrastructure, so I think what you just
30:44
stated, I think that's happening and I
30:48
think that's something that investors
30:50
should look towards, and there's some great
30:53
startup businesses that are going to do exactly what you just mentioned.
30:56
So it's not an idea, it is a business plan
30:59
and I think it's going to be. You're going to see that country wide
31:02
because to I still don't own an electric
31:05
car, why? Well, I'm an anxious guy. I have fear of anxiety and of range anxiety.
31:10
And then also the depreciating values of
31:12
electric cars. On the minute you talk about driving a car
31:15
up a lot, you know you lose value On an electric car.
31:18
You better understand that there's not much
31:20
of a resell market if you're putting 50K mile on it and what's that going to be?
31:24
That being said, you know we need the
31:27
infrastructure and I love your idea and,
31:31
frankly, it's probably an idea that's going
31:34
to be implemented in some of our projects going forward.
31:37
Yeah.
31:39
Pretty cool and of course Dan brings pickleball into the show Big pickleball.
31:44
I don't really have a pickleball head, but today I chose the branding, the company
31:48
branding.
31:48
So that's fine.
31:49
Okay.
31:50
Okay, well, pickleball, I'm sure as it is, there is just a rage across the country.
31:55
So, and it's so consistent with commercial
31:59
real estate, it's fantastic.
32:02
That's funny.
32:04
That's cool. Yeah, I was going to ask about the charging stations because, as California has been
32:09
pushing more and more for regulations for electric vehicles and I don't I'm not from
32:15
California. Electric vehicles here in the Midwest Don't
32:19
do well in the cold, so you see very few of
32:22
them out here. But in California, like I'm seeing videos
32:26
on social media and news coverage about how
32:29
people aren't getting their cars charged in,
32:32
the charging stations aren't working because it's too cold and there's a lot of
32:36
issues with that, and I figure, like if
32:39
there's a big push to go to electric
32:41
vehicles, they're going to have to get more charging stations.
32:44
That's inevitable, and where are they going to put these things?
32:48
So I'm glad that it seems like the feel of
32:51
the climate in California is to push to get
32:53
more of those in, because obviously if you're going that direction, it's going to
32:56
need to happen.
32:58
Yeah, tesla is going to emerge as the what
33:01
they call the type three charging station.
33:04
You know the rapid charging station, they
33:07
they appear to be the safest choice in
33:10
terms of providing that infrastructure.
33:13
And you know, by way of example, that same Livermore project that I've mentioned,
33:17
they're going to be putting those type three stations in the shopping center, so
33:21
it's along the freeway and then you'll have
33:23
that. But I like where Dan was going and that you
33:25
know how do you capitalize that as a revenue generator?
33:28
Also, and I do think you know whether it's
33:31
a brewery or a tap house that you don't
33:35
want to mix drink.
33:38
But we're not condoning them, mixing them, we're just offering another service.
33:43
But in California and retail, my good
33:46
friend Don and Wally here, wally Stanger,
33:48
he always says that retail really has a bandwidth, which is how many forms of food
33:53
or how much can the stomach, you know,
33:56
really be the generator to retail? In other words, most of our retail uses are
34:00
food oriented and so there's a bandwidth of
34:02
how many things that you can provide that
34:05
are food driven. And then what can you provide?
34:07
Such a dance point, you know, a pickleball,
34:11
or even a spot where you're maybe you're traveling with your children, maybe there's
34:14
a jump house or something or you know kind
34:17
of non food entertainment.
34:20
You know, we still think movie theaters and
34:24
I want to go to movie tonight, and there's, there's things that, like you said, if the
34:28
future is plug weight.
34:31
How do you take advantage that commercial real estate, dan, I think you've done a
34:35
great job identifying as one way to do it and that could help reinvigorate some of
34:39
these commercial places that are not doing well.
34:41
Yeah interesting and I'm all about electric
34:44
vehicles. I wish we could do more in the Midwest.
34:47
But that your range anxiety that you're
34:51
talking about is what I have, because I was
34:53
looking at that Ford lightning oh, that'd
34:56
be so cool, like the towing capacity is
34:58
pretty much the same as what I have, but I
35:01
couldn't get to Milwaukee and back pulling
35:03
the trailer Like that.
35:05
I can't do that.
35:06
There's no way to do that with your guest, because you leave it, you leave it on, you
35:10
leave it on the all the time. This guy is notorious for riding into the
35:14
station on fumes man.
35:15
He gives other people anxiety of the gas car.
35:19
Yesterday I rolled into the gas station
35:21
zero miles to empty and I pulled into the
35:24
pump.
35:25
It took you only five minutes, to you know, to basically fill it up, 10 minutes to fill
35:28
it up, whereas it might take 30 minutes. On the chart, again, that's where the
35:34
manufacturers are now looking at.
35:36
Well, maybe the all electric needs to be
35:39
blended in a hybrid sense, and I think
35:41
we're going to trap trap towards that. But, as you know, in California, by 2035,
35:47
our government right on our own or indifferent, has mandated that there will
35:50
be no more gas sales. Of that, the legislator and the next
35:55
governor may need to rethink that strategy.
35:58
If we don't have this infrastructure in place, yeah, that would be a devastating
36:02
part to an already expensive economy that
36:06
we have here. And so again in California, we we want to
36:11
do the right thing, we want to do it in the
36:14
right time, you know for climate control, but you know you got to push the envelope
36:18
to where you're not. You know you don't become non competitive
36:23
and I think there's some concerns right now
36:25
that California could be non competitive if it doesn't start to kind of tack back
36:29
towards a little bit more middle ground. And we have electric, electric cars on the
36:35
future and we have some of the best ones here in the world and it is an opportunity
36:39
for commercial real estate, as we touched
36:42
on. To take advantage of that and to reinvent
36:45
space is that would also benefit. You know, charging stations and electric
36:48
cars.
36:50
Yeah, and on the electric theme, even the I
36:52
know the vehicles are one side, but the
36:54
commercial, the residential houses with solar you'd mentioned that as well, and I
36:59
came to a company actually based out of California to get solar panels on my house,
37:03
and the topic of the battery storage came
37:06
up. Yeah, you're like, do you want one? Now's, like, what's your recommendation?
37:10
I'm not knowledgeable in this. You tell me, and they're like, to be honest,
37:15
tesla is going to create a battery that's much better than what we have today.
37:19
So, don't go with it. Take your dollar for dollar buyback from
37:22
the city. Just wait until the next battery comes out,
37:26
or two versions from now, because it's
37:28
going to hold more. It's just going to be better.
37:32
That's where technology is going, so that
37:35
was their recommendation, and they're in the solar electric world.
37:38
Yeah, in California now you used to be able
37:43
to have solar. You know, invert that power and it would go
37:47
back into the grid and PG would pay it, you
37:50
know, for you and there was a you know and
37:53
there's obviously heavy, heavy federal and state incentives.
37:56
A lot of those have gone away, in particular the utility commission companies
37:59
here and the utility commission has
38:02
redirected that that you can really no
38:05
longer as a as a homeowner, business owner,
38:09
sell power back into the grid.
38:12
You can only really. Yeah, that power goes free to the utility.
38:17
Now you have the ability to store it to
38:20
your point about a battery and then you can
38:23
program your battery and your system that
38:26
when, when PG in this case here in
38:28
California starts charging you for the
38:30
highest per kilowatt hour, say at 5pm when
38:33
you get home you want to start cooking, you want to do laundry you can actually have
38:37
that battery supplement that time.
38:39
Therefore, that will lower your rate
38:42
because you're not on the grid PG. So to your point.
38:47
I agree that you know you better make sure
38:49
that you have your best performing battery
38:53
and it might make sense to wait. But a lot of people here in California are
38:56
not waiting. They're still federal and state incentives
38:58
for those batteries. But it's a, it's a commitment and you're
39:02
going to have to put some upfront dollars into it. Meanwhile the PG and here in California,
39:07
continues to raise rates and it's very
39:09
expensive. It's affecting all of our commercial real
39:12
estate. That, plus insurance costs, are really
39:15
affecting the expense side of commercial real estate but also hitting the pocketbook
39:19
of, you know, john and Joe and Q public.
39:22
Again, that's part of the issue here in California that we're still facing post
39:26
pandemic.
39:27
Yeah, how long ago did they change that
39:29
regulation to where you can't sell back the power to the utility company?
39:34
I believe around. I think it's the loss changed from 2022 to
39:38
2023.
39:39
That's my man, that's a big hit.
39:41
That was a big selling feature for me, where I could sell it back because the
39:45
batteries are so expensive they are, and
39:48
that's why, oh man, that stinks.
39:50
You might check your local jurisdiction. Obviously, each power company works
39:53
differently. Yeah, wonderful to set specific gas and
39:56
electric they. That's how they operate.
40:01
The wonderful Um are you starting to,
40:07
because you were talking about, with your commercial spaces, letting it pretty much
40:10
build the suit so you give them the outside
40:12
structure they can go in. Are you now putting electric, like solar,
40:19
for those commercial properties that you're building now?
40:21
Are you, are you already putting those in,
40:24
knowing where it's headed, or is that
40:26
something that your, your new tenant, would
40:29
come in and put that in?
40:33
No, if it's a, you know, a retail office,
40:36
that's our responsibility and then the
40:38
tenant shares the benefit of the power and
40:42
as a case of this building that we're
40:44
sitting in here I have pretty much
40:47
mitigates all my power. But again, under that model I mentioned, it
40:51
sells it, it goes back into the grid and PG
40:54
me gives me a slight credit as a business
40:57
owner, but it also mitigates the power of
40:59
needs of my large restaurant. I have an 8,000 square foot restaurant on a
41:02
multi story and so it helps that tenant
41:05
with his electricity bills, so they're not
41:07
as much fluctuation and their costs, which
41:11
allows for a higher rent they can pay.
41:12
So yes, and then?
41:14
for the, for the residential apartments and
41:17
or town loans, and in particular, we are
41:20
required to provide solar plus charging
41:22
stations. Moving forward, that is a standard now of
41:25
all projects. But from a bill for rent, which are town
41:28
homes, now that we're building, imagine two car garage, five unit town homes,
41:33
commercial property, and we read we're giving, where you drive in your garage,
41:37
your charging station is already retrofitted and ready to go.
41:41
You probably said provide the cord and then
41:43
you have solar also, that's power in your
41:46
house. That is the new standard now.
41:49
It actually it is a cost benefit when
41:51
you're doing more lower density, whether
41:53
single family homes, town homes, why?
41:56
Well, I'm not having to provide those gas
41:58
lines you know in, so I'm saving a little
42:02
bit on the. You know the heavy infrastructure.
42:05
When I build road, street sewer, at least I
42:08
can leave out that gas option and I'm
42:10
supplementing that with, you know, solar
42:13
and those things that go with solar. So that's that part of it is actually
42:17
heavily incentivized and there's a lot of
42:20
solar companies that want to be involved,
42:22
that are giving the developer benefits moving forward, and there's real income
42:26
that you can actually achieve if you design
42:29
and build your apartment, your town homes, that way.
42:32
I got you, yeah, and you kind of hit on my next question of cost when you put those
42:36
things in. I wouldn't imagine it'd be like a break
42:39
even where you save on the gas line but the
42:42
electric that you need to upgrade would pretty much break even and cost.
42:48
Have you guys gone through like what it does cost to add a charging station?
42:52
Like what would installing one charging station be at this point?
42:56
And I'm guessing those costs will go lower
42:59
as more and more people are in the game and we get more competition with it.
43:03
Yeah, good question. The solar companies A lot of times will
43:07
become your partner and they'll be your
43:10
third party vendor. So in many cases they'll give you maybe the
43:15
charging station for a very discounted rate,
43:19
or the or the battery pack would have you in return.
43:22
So you're you're leasing those from them
43:25
which they make money from and you make
43:28
money from as well, depending on your
43:30
arrangement with that solar provider. So it is, it is, it's become a more of a
43:36
value add in your revenue side to work with
43:40
these solar companies at the beginning of
43:42
your project. Same thing with Tesla.
43:44
They'll come into your shopping center without a cost, they will provide all the
43:50
infrastructure charging stations, canopies
43:52
for solar and you rent on top of that based
43:56
upon you know what they generate and
43:59
they'll revenue share in some cases to put
44:02
those stations in. So you, I think, I think the balance is
44:06
shifted now that it is an incentive for
44:10
developers on the commercial real estate side to put charging stations, solar, into
44:15
the projects, because there is very
44:17
entrepreneurial time for these solar companies.
44:21
Awesome. Yeah, I feel like we're looking into the
44:24
future because we haven't gotten there really in Wisconsin, so it's, I don't know,
44:30
I'll show you how it works, but we can't do
44:32
anything about your weather.
44:33
That's the problem.
44:34
In a couple of years we won't have winter. I mean it snowed five times since December.
44:41
Maybe a significant amount to be affecting
44:44
stuff. I luckily dodged it.
44:47
I'm not in Wisconsin today. I'm actually in Phoenix area for the next
44:51
couple of weeks.
44:52
Spring training.
44:52
Yeah, I get to enjoy this out here it's 85
44:57
degrees at six o'clock PM and at the
45:00
Brewers watching Brewers play San Francisco.
45:03
Oh, my San Francisco giants, I think we won yesterday.
45:06
Yeah, you did. You guys put it on in the middle, middle
45:08
innings there.
45:11
I love the brew, brew.
45:14
I think, with all of this talk, we should get into discussing how much we should be
45:19
investing in Tesla, especially with how low
45:21
it is right now.
45:24
Oh, what's the?
45:24
stock at no stock chips from this guy.
45:27
I can only get some of those.
45:30
We should throw the disclaimer that this is entertainment.
45:32
We're not giving stock advice.
45:34
There you go, because you don't want to hear my stock advice.
45:37
Yeah, tesla, I would imagine, has a bright
45:39
future in the solar business and battery
45:43
business. Obviously we still think of it as a
45:47
California company because we know Elon
45:49
Musk if you're listening, we know you live
45:53
in here in the Bay Area more than you said.
45:57
Right now it's at 169.
46:00
It was 407 in November of 21.
46:06
With all of the charging stations and that
46:10
stuff coming and the batteries that Marcus
46:14
said he had experienced with that solar
46:16
energy company, it might not be a bad gig.
46:19
But you could create competitions to get
46:22
the people to come to those stations
46:24
specifically to let their kids run wild and
46:29
then compete against other people charging their cars.
46:31
They throw out the paddles and let's go.
46:35
I love your pickleball. You have no idea how close of a reality
46:40
that's going to be. I think you're seeing the future, Dan.
46:43
I think you're there.
46:46
I only had some money from the property.
46:48
I think you've got the other stuff down cold.
46:51
Yeah, yeah, that's funny Cool.
46:56
We only have a few minutes left, but we didn't get to talk into what you're on to
47:00
next In the beginning of the show.
47:02
I think we're off air. Actually, you were talking about how
47:05
seasonal commercial real estate is, and
47:08
right now we're in the spring, so we are hitting the busiest portion of both
47:13
residential and commercial. So for you guys over at Republic, what is
47:18
on the horizon for your spring summer, or
47:20
what are you looking forward to out of the
47:22
dark ages?
47:23
Yes, yes, and this has been a fun time
47:28
spending time with you guys Really appreciate it and I'd say, going forward.
47:32
We still have the same business plans to
47:36
try and start some projects, both for multi
47:39
family hotels, but I think where we're
47:44
immediately trending towards a start,
47:48
although we still have some you know some concerns about the capital markets assuming
47:52
the capital markets, maybe you know kind of
47:55
heal a little bit more. While we're still in the building season,
47:58
we have a large project in Fairfield, california.
48:01
That's kind of halfway between Sacramento,
48:03
california and the Bay Area, and there you
48:06
have a tremendous amount of growth from life science Large companies like Genentech
48:12
and Roche and these large life science companies that are in this Solano County
48:16
region. And then you have military bases there as
48:22
well in Fairfield. So we're looking at, as I touched on
48:24
briefly called Build for Rent. It's that five unit town home, because here
48:29
in the Bay Area we're starting to see, you
48:31
know, people that live in cities who are,
48:34
say, now in their you know early 30s.
48:37
You know they're we talked about home
48:39
ownership how difficult it is and so.
48:42
But people don't necessarily want to spend their entire life in a two bedroom flat,
48:46
especially when these two bedroom flats and I built them are really not designed for
48:51
kids. They may be designed for dogs but they
48:54
don't have a lot of features for kids and,
48:56
frankly, most people need three bedrooms and they need cars and they're going to
49:01
drive. So we're looking at this Build for Rent
49:04
project. It's catching fire and has all throughout
49:08
the Southeast and places like Charlotte,
49:11
atlanta Also. We're Dan's at not too far from there, dan.
49:15
You can probably see some of those examples in the greater Phoenix Metro.
49:18
But again, imagine five unit town homes
49:21
side by side, garage for two car garage I
49:24
mentioned, you know, having charging stations, solar, but also a little backyard
49:28
for their dog or for their child and then
49:30
an amenity space just like an apartment pool, community room, gym, but detached,
49:36
not in a multi level but within more of a
49:38
subdivision, but operates as commercial
49:41
real estate, meaning everyone pays rent and
49:43
there's one landlord. So that's what we're trying to start here.
49:48
It's capital markets have been a little
49:50
quirky, as you know, but we still think
49:52
long term that business plan, because if
49:55
things are going to be so expensive to build on a multi level, you know kind of
49:59
basis it only makes sense that maybe a
50:01
lower density when I say lower density.
50:04
I mean 25 to say 30 units of the acre
50:07
versus, say, 55 to 100 units in the acre,
50:10
more spread out. And so we're excited to start that business
50:14
plan. Hopefully this year we've had a lot of a
50:17
lot of interest in and I think the business
50:19
fans have been proven in those areas I mentioned. But that's pretty much what we're involved
50:25
with, that and just kind of asset management, making sure that we have, you
50:29
know, working a lot in the capital markets on on longer term loans for our assets
50:33
that's. I spent a lot of time doing that and then
50:36
and so again survived in 25 and hopefully
50:40
we'll be in a position in 25 and beyond
50:42
with a more stabilized interest rate where that's the new norm and we could once again
50:47
kind of heat this thing up. But that again will depend on jobs and a
50:51
lot of other factors that I don't think the three of us can control.
50:54
But hey, it's great and there's challenges,
50:58
but we work hard and we still try to do
51:01
what we can to make every city we work in a
51:04
better place to be.
51:05
Yeah, I could got one question regarding those five, five unit, five townhomes
51:10
you're talking about. Would there ever be a situation where,
51:14
after you guys build it, you could sell
51:17
each individual unit back to the homeowner
51:20
and then basically say, hey, you five are now this community with these amenities,
51:25
obviously the price then you would reflect because they have access to that gym or
51:29
that pool or whatever else you that could
51:31
be get a higher ask for the single.
51:35
More of a condo feel kind of yeah.
51:38
Yeah, in California we have a 10 year
51:40
liability on construction defect, and so
51:44
it's, it would be a safe assumption to make
51:47
that after a 10 year period.
51:50
In particular and I'm only speaking about California that would be an option to do
51:55
that. And again, maybe the next kind of turbo
51:58
charge to this business, to where we could
52:01
increase home ownership. And you know which, I think at the end of
52:04
the day, even though I'm a commercial builder, you know, really you need people
52:08
to own their homes, to invest in communities, so yeah, and that would be an
52:12
incredible way to boost home ownership,
52:15
specifically in high barrier entry markets
52:18
like California.
52:19
Yeah, I really like that plan. That mid density is always a sweet spot For
52:25
me. Personally, I feel like that's like the safe area to be in.
52:29
Not everybody wants the a class, the 6000,
52:32
10,000 square foot house. Well, I'll call it a mansion at that point.
52:36
Yeah.
52:37
In Wisconsin.
52:38
What's that? I said in Wisconsin, yeah definitely In
52:42
California we got to get a little bit more square footage, called a mansion, maybe on
52:46
a mountainside somewhere, but that mid
52:49
density, that, the smaller footprint house
52:53
with a little bit of a yard, is something sought after because you're seeing people
52:58
push away from the apartment complexes of
53:00
100 and, unless they need to, with either
53:04
price or location, a lot of people would
53:07
like a little backyard but not a huge yard
53:09
where they're outside mowing it for two
53:11
hours in an afternoon and not a lot of
53:14
house where they have to clean all the time, because a lot of people now, the younger
53:18
generation and I'm not that old, but the
53:20
younger generation is more after like
53:24
experiences and they'd rather spend their money traveling.
53:27
So those smaller price point homes, which
53:30
is just enough space for them, I think, is
53:33
where where the future is going. So to get on that now, I think is a
53:37
brilliant idea.
53:39
Absolutely. And I think it would be on 55, heading to,
53:41
hopefully to my golden years and I would
53:44
say the empty nester with with echo and
53:46
everything, and you believe we'll see a
53:50
lower density product bill as, again,
53:54
capital markets will never stay dormant
53:56
forever and be a prominent business plan
54:00
moving forward. So yeah, I appreciate what you're saying
54:02
because it really is your generation that we're targeting.
54:05
Knowing that you have younger children, you
54:08
probably don't, maybe don't want to own, and there's a lot of younger people now
54:11
that don't want to hide.
54:14
That's your point. So I completely agree, and it really is
54:17
dependent on you, know that kind of mindset
54:20
that will drive this business point.
54:24
That's exciting. I'm excited to see what you guys do with it.
54:26
So you just want to send us that business plan.
54:29
It's a science brewer series. Let's hang out, let's have a hot dog, and
54:32
then I'll take you around and show you all these communities and share this plan with
54:36
us to certainly send us the start
54:40
replicating that here and then maybe give you a kickback or something.
54:43
Hey, listen, there's no secrets in
54:46
commercial real estate. Gentlemen, take every idea and run with it.
54:49
That's what makes our industry fun.
54:51
Yeah, and I would take you up on a giant
54:54
scheme. Hunter Pence is no longer playing for you,
54:57
so I can do it.
54:58
No, but I think you are hunter pets. You look just like him.
55:01
Oh, don't say that he's my most. I don't know why, but I could not get on
55:05
board with him. I hope I didn't look like Hunter Pence when
55:11
I was batting. That's what bugged me. That was awkward, but he was an all star
55:16
and I'll never take away his accomplishments.
55:18
But man, that was gangly.
55:21
That's awkward if you remember that World Series where he hit the ball like three
55:25
times when he was swinging through.
55:27
But but he is beloved and he has a San
55:31
Francisco very a resident now and one of
55:35
our color commentator. So, like I said, you can be his
55:37
doppelganger.
55:39
I've gotten a bum gardener. That's what I got.
55:43
Another stalwart, but yeah, little, little,
55:46
little different personality.
55:48
Yeah, no, that's cool.
55:51
Well, I'm hope. Wait, we're on an even year, so San
55:54
Francisco is their odds to win the World
55:56
Series.
55:57
I don't think we'll win the World Series. You guys have a team that could lost your
56:01
manager, but you should be in the mix this
56:03
year. I'd love for you to beat that Chicago top
56:05
Cubs team.
56:06
Thank you for not mentioning his name. That's a, that's a trader move of.
56:09
I've ever seen one man that was treacherous,
56:13
oh man, and he's. He's got kids that go to high school in in
56:18
like Whitefish Bay, so like it's for them.
56:21
I know they got a lot of flak because he
56:23
was he was deep rooted in that community and then for him to just say, hey, let's.
56:27
But I understand it because he had pressure from other managers across the MLB saying
56:32
if you don't take this money, you're affecting our pockets down the road.
56:36
So is that your rival, the Cubs are the
56:38
brewers rival, right.
56:40
Yeah, them and St Louis, I think they they,
56:43
they frustrate me so much. Yadir Molina, albert Pujols, back in the
56:47
day who else was with them?
56:49
And just they, they, cubs and Cubs.
56:52
And St Louis frustrated me so much.
56:54
Yes, yes, for us it's the Dodgers.
56:57
Yeah, yeah them too when we get to the NLCS
56:59
or LDS.
57:00
Yeah, we don't like the Dodgers.
57:01
Now you'll have fun with Otani this year. Yeah, at least he won't be pitching against
57:05
you.
57:05
Yeah Well, he better be careful too about
57:08
his little friend, and that, and I heard,
57:11
handling situation is not a good look. That's not a good look.
57:14
So I didn't get to read much on it and I know this has nothing to do with real
57:17
estate. So if the visitors came for real estate,
57:20
they can, they can click out.
57:21
If you stayed to the end, you get some nuggets.
57:23
Yeah, yeah, well, we it sounds like we're
57:25
all baseball fans, which is what we're living for here coming up.
57:29
Yeah, this big baseball.
57:31
I still have all of the wood bats in college that I had.
57:35
I'd broken not me personally, but I was a pitcher.
57:37
Yeah, yeah, that I have.
57:40
We had hung up in our college apartment Okay.
57:42
Nice, the bats have broken dreams.
57:45
Love souvenirs.
57:47
It was a great souvenir, yeah, so Otani's
57:52
translator.
57:54
Yes.
57:55
Was was betting for Otani?
57:58
No, he was betting on an MBA, soccer and
58:01
other things, allegedly through a bookie,
58:04
but to the tune of hundreds of thousands of
58:06
dollars, which he then stole from Otani to pay back.
58:09
Okay, that's where it was. There was something where it crossed over
58:12
to Otani's bank account.
58:13
Yeah, Stole from Otani. Hey, I'm taking this money.
58:17
Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, that's what the
58:20
story?
58:20
I didn't get to read much on it so I was kind of curious on what was going on with
58:23
that one yeah.
58:26
He's spurned the.
58:27
Giants. You know the Giants really wanted him to
58:29
come to San Francisco. So have fun in LA.
58:36
Well, good luck to the Giants this year.
58:39
It's hard to cheer.
58:40
It's hard to cheer against the Giants.
58:43
It is.
58:43
I'm telling you boys, if you guys come out to San Francisco, we'll go to a game.
58:48
Talk some more commercial real estate, and it's been a pleasure being on your show.
58:53
Hold on one second. Who was the manager for San Francisco at
58:56
Miller Park? When it was Miller Park, they would be
58:59
yelling out was it Bochi, Bochi, Boat?
59:02
They would. They would rass him the whole time when I
59:05
would go to those games.
59:06
Man Bochi Four times Bochi yeah, three with
59:10
the Giants, one with the Texas Rangers.
59:12
Wow.
59:13
We miss him. It was a dumb move. Let him go.
59:16
Yup, I agree.
59:18
Well, cool.
59:19
It was a very enjoyable conversation.
59:21
Love the dialogue here and the information
59:24
Tidbits.
59:24
Yeah.
59:24
That's great.
59:27
I really appreciate it and feel free to stay in touch and, like I said, let's get
59:31
to ghetto soon.
59:32
Yeah, absolutely. I'll definitely keep in touch because
59:34
commercial real estate is something that I've wanted to do.
59:37
We've got this ski hill that's in in the
59:40
town that I live in been vacant for maybe a
59:44
decade, 15 years. There was three owners to the land and one
59:51
of them died and there was a big probate battle of who owns what.
59:55
So it just sits there vacant every year. The ski lift is still on there and I've got
1:00:00
this like pipe dream of putting like little
1:00:03
modular, like Airbnb's on this hill,
1:00:07
Because again in the summer it's a big lake
1:00:09
draw, so people coming up from Illinois or
1:00:12
down from Minnesota have a place to stay.
1:00:17
Our city doesn't really like short term rentals, which is a hiccup there.
1:00:20
Yeah, and then to find out who and how to
1:00:23
obtain the land, but stuff like that would
1:00:26
be a nice, exciting second step in a real
1:00:29
estate or to get into commercial.
1:00:32
But I'm going to stream, because you'll be
1:00:34
surprised at how often dreams come reality
1:00:37
commercial real estate. So dream your best dream and, and you know,
1:00:42
always hook up with people that are smarter than you and just like I knew, and you'll
1:00:47
be surprised how fast those become reality.
1:00:50
We'll have to make a way up to San Francisco.
1:00:52
Yes, all right, gentlemen, thank you so
1:00:55
much for being on your show. I appreciate it. Yeah, thanks for coming on.
1:00:57
Thanks for giving us the time. Enjoy your weekend you too, my friends,
1:01:00
take care Bye, bye, see ya.
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