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Exploring the Future of Urban Development with Michael Van Every: Navigating the Commercial Real Estate Landscape

Exploring the Future of Urban Development with Michael Van Every: Navigating the Commercial Real Estate Landscape

Released Monday, 25th March 2024
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Exploring the Future of Urban Development with Michael Van Every: Navigating the Commercial Real Estate Landscape

Exploring the Future of Urban Development with Michael Van Every: Navigating the Commercial Real Estate Landscape

Exploring the Future of Urban Development with Michael Van Every: Navigating the Commercial Real Estate Landscape

Exploring the Future of Urban Development with Michael Van Every: Navigating the Commercial Real Estate Landscape

Monday, 25th March 2024
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0:03

Welcome back to MVP Real Estate Podcast,

0:06

season four, episode three. We have Michael Van Evry from San Jose,

0:12

california, with Republic Urban Properties,

0:16

wealth of knowledge in real estate. He is gone.

0:19

He said he was 55, now 55, yeah, hadn't

0:22

into his golden years. We talk a lot about, obviously, the

0:27

differential between locations in California, austin, wisconsin, trends that

0:32

he's seeing. He's heavy in the commercial real estate

0:35

market, dabble a little bit in residential

0:38

before, and we kind of go through, I guess,

0:41

the cycle of what they focus on within their company and what their horizon looks

0:47

like going into spring or end of 2024.

0:51

So before we give away the whole show, we'll bring them in.

0:54

I will welcome this show, michael, thanks for giving us the time.

0:57

Thank you very much. Thank you, we are going to jump right into

1:01

this. You are currently working and you've

1:05

started a company, republic Urban

1:07

Properties, which I have a bunch of questions on because I was reading before

1:10

the show and you have amassed a lot of

1:14

properties and a lot of projects there. But before you got there, if you could give

1:20

us like a little brief review or summary of

1:23

what got you to be in this position you're in today?

1:26

Sure Well, again, thanks for having me. Guys Appreciate it.

1:29

Yeah, I think it's kind of a local story

1:32

about a guy that grew up in San Jose.

1:34

His family was involved in local grocery

1:37

stores, so always connected to local politics and, as bait would have it, local

1:42

politics served as my vehicle into the

1:45

first home building industry, working for

1:48

some of the great home builders, like Steve Schott, former owner of the Oakland A's

1:52

company called Citation Homes, but also on

1:55

the advocacy side of the building industry

1:57

association here in California, and that

2:01

eventually that led to my desire to really

2:03

build. You know, on the infill parcels I was

2:06

trying to. I was tired of building, you know, on

2:09

outlier places. You know the old saying pay paradise to put

2:14

up a parking lot. That's kind of what I was doing and my

2:17

longing was for to build cities and so when

2:20

the opportunity, people started looking

2:22

more infill opportunities. But when the opportunity came about for

2:26

Republic urban properties, it actually

2:29

happened through the Santa Clara County

2:31

Building and Trains Association. They were the one that recommended me to my

2:35

partner, richard L Kramer, in 2006.

2:39

And really the rest is history. I've been here since 2006, really as his

2:44

managing partner, and that's been a

2:46

privilege.

2:47

That's awesome, and we've had a couple of people on some developers and they talk

2:52

about subdivisions and subdividing lots.

2:56

But you're talking bigger than that. You're talking cities, which is super

3:00

impressive, and obviously you've mentioned

3:04

it before. Working within politics with that, you are

3:07

going to have to be in close communication,

3:09

I would imagine, with city planners and in

3:12

people in that that department. Do you find that as an easy path because

3:20

you've been in politics for so long, or was

3:22

there a learning curve getting into the

3:25

bigger infrastructure than that?

3:26

Yeah, that's a fantastic question Because I think in California to be a well-rounded

3:33

developer you really have to have a very

3:38

background in understanding how each local

3:41

government works. And what's crazy in California in

3:44

particular is every local government works

3:48

differently. There's foundational parts of local

3:51

government, through municipal codes, that are consistent, but the way they may

3:56

process a project or, of course, how their

3:59

general plans are approved are vastly

4:01

different. The state of California is trying to do a

4:05

more uniform building process.

4:08

It's been difficult, but certainly my

4:11

background in local politics and my

4:14

involvement in philanthropic matters, both

4:16

my wife and I we're very fortunate to be

4:19

able to know not just the city planners,

4:23

but ultimately we try to work hard to be in

4:26

community-based organizations that are affiliated with key decision makers.

4:31

That's awesome and it sounds like you've

4:34

always been in commercial, because along

4:37

the building side, in knowing your city

4:41

planners, commercial real estate is a whole

4:44

different entity than residential. It is so to have some background in

4:50

commercial real estate, like you did at a young age, and know the city planners, I'm

4:54

sure kind of helped you into the role

4:57

you're in, I would imagine.

5:00

In a little bit of reversal. I was actually in the whole building side

5:03

first.

5:04

Oh really.

5:05

Yeah, and that was doing those classic 6,

5:09

8,000 square foot lots, building roads and

5:13

sewer and infrastructure For large baking.

5:18

Smaller cities, bigger, pretty large cities

5:21

like the city of Salinas here in our

5:24

agricultural belt, in Monterey County,

5:26

california. And then again that background, though

5:31

translated to commercial, but it was a

5:34

rethinking of how the financial side of the

5:40

projects were vastly different selling

5:43

single family homes, obviously, than, say,

5:46

building and renting commercial real estate

5:48

of all types. Vastly different and more intense, I would

5:53

say, on the commercial side. But it's nice to have a touch point for

5:58

both disciplines, whether you know home building or commercial real estate.

6:02

But now, as a 55 year old male, I'm

6:05

probably more in tune with commercial real

6:07

estate and how that that functions

6:10

financially.

6:11

Yeah, and that's what I've heard. It is vastly different from your

6:14

perspective. Because I couldn't excuse me, I couldn't

6:18

weigh in on this one because I have no experience on the commercial side.

6:22

Yeah, what do you think in your history or

6:24

your background has been the biggest difference between the residential and the

6:30

commercial side? Second, question.

6:32

First, I think it's just how it's approved

6:35

and so obviously you have a lot or multiple

6:41

lots where you either buy the land or you

6:44

buy the airspace, and so how the state of

6:48

California treats the mapping and ownership

6:51

process is vastly different from commercial,

6:54

where you'll only have one building, one

6:56

lot. So it's really that simple.

6:59

It comes down to subdivision of the land

7:02

and then of course, how how finance works.

7:05

You know, obviously you own a building, but

7:09

you probably hope 65% of that building to

7:12

commercial real estate, to a bank, I guess

7:15

not that much different than when you own a home, but it's just, I think, an ownership

7:19

difference more than anything in a mapping difference in California.

7:23

But the business models are totally different, much different.

7:27

In particular, after the financial crisis of 2008, home-golding shifted vastly for

7:33

home builders the way they accept deposits

7:36

and the way they sell, you know, and develop land to where commercial real

7:41

estate is probably staying pretty consistent in its model, although those

7:44

models are changing every day now with new

7:47

financial hurdles like interest rates.

7:50

But they're very similar but very different,

7:53

as you noted.

7:54

Yeah, and I always note when I'm trying to

7:57

bring up examples of how commercial and residential are different, like I always

8:01

bring up the Walgreens system that they've

8:05

got, where Walgreens doesn't own any of the

8:07

buildings I believe their parent company

8:12

owns it but Walgreens brand leases to

8:14

themself. So there's a lot more, I don't know

8:20

flexibility. I call commercial real estate the Wild West

8:23

Because I feel like you can honestly do what you want as long as your paperwork is

8:27

good, but it's not as regulated as, let's

8:33

just say, the residential market.

8:35

Yeah, the model you mentioned also is how

8:38

the wealth was built in McDonald's same

8:40

situation. Oh, really, yeah, if you've ever watched

8:44

the movie the Founder, michael Keaton's

8:46

character, of course, ray Kroc. That's how he became a billionaire by

8:50

owning all of his land and leasing back

8:53

that land and building to his operators.

8:57

But it's a great model because it enriches both the landowner, the building owner and,

9:02

in most cases, the operator of the business.

9:05

And, to your point, that's how commercial real estate really touches so many

9:09

different people, whereas home building is

9:12

really affecting the homeowner, maybe their

9:15

neighbors, and then, of course, the developer exits and that's the end of it,

9:19

whereas commercial real estate we're in it

9:22

for the long haul, sometimes for the best

9:25

case, sometimes for the worst case. But yeah, I love the way you characterize

9:28

the Wild West, in particular today. It is truly the Wild West.

9:33

Yeah, there's ups and there's downs right

9:37

now in the market, at least here in Wisconsin, with commercial real estate.

9:40

Sure, rick and Mortar, at least this area

9:44

is hurting.

9:45

Yes.

9:45

Is that what you're seeing out in San Jose as well?

9:48

Oh yes, post pandemic and low interest

9:54

rates, there has been a tectonic shift in

9:58

commercial real estate of all types, whether it's a cost factor, a use factor or

10:07

even just kind of a what is this building going to be for the long term factor, it's

10:12

just, there's so much has changed, but in

10:14

particular the cost side, and it's interesting to hear you say that for a

10:18

place like Wisconsin or Chicago where construction costs are typically lower than,

10:24

say, here in California. But now here in California the replacement

10:28

costs for a new building, really, say, for

10:32

an office building in particular, but even

10:34

apartments, round up hotels, and it's just

10:38

long story short, you just cannot construct

10:41

a new commercial real estate building today

10:44

and expect it to reach those financial

10:47

matrix hurdles that capital markets expect.

10:51

So in short, there's just not a lot of new

10:54

ground up market rate projects that are

10:58

underway right now here in the Bay Area and

11:00

the greater part of California. That's not to say it's everywhere, but it's

11:04

very difficult with the cost side now with

11:06

interest rates being what they're at. And then we've seen a tremendous amount of

11:10

cooling off for apartment rents.

11:13

That's a national average in fact, unless you're in the Southeast or maybe Arizona,

11:18

but they have that hyperinflation. So it's difficult, it's a very difficult

11:23

market and it probably will stay this way

11:25

for at least another year, in my opinion.

11:30

Yeah, that's what? Sorry, it sounds a lot like how the

11:34

residential market is Like. You're getting priced out of being able to

11:38

buy the fix and flips or the fixer uppers

11:41

to rent them out, and then you're trying to

11:44

figure out the numbers aligned, like you

11:46

said, with the matrix of what you expect on

11:49

return and how quickly.

11:50

Yeah, true, you bring up a good point that

11:53

that's been another, actually to some

11:55

extent a commercial business, where you are

11:57

fixing properties and either renting them

12:01

or selling them, but you have a little bit

12:03

more chance on something that's existing

12:06

and doing a value add. I think that's where most of the capital

12:09

markets are on the equity side, but also

12:12

tremendous programs on the debt side would

12:14

say, hey, you have a structure of building

12:18

or what have you that you want to reinvent

12:21

or you want to advance, or maybe you want

12:23

to create an affordable situation. That part of the capital markets is still

12:28

moving pretty well. But again you see an obsolete piece of

12:33

property that has a great piece of land and you want to blade that and go vertical.

12:38

I don't care what commercial asset it is.

12:41

It's almost impossible right now, at least

12:44

in March of 2024.

12:47

And it's so timely that you bring that up,

12:49

because down the street we have a company

12:53

that's here in Wisconsin. They bought up a couple of commercial unit

12:57

buildings that were not historic to our

13:00

town, but on the older side they tore them

13:04

down. I believe it was July, august of last year.

13:11

They were supposed to, over the winter, get prepped for build and they've since called

13:15

the project off for at least a year because

13:18

they can't get funding to work. All the build costs have escalated to the

13:22

point where they can't even build them.

13:26

Yeah, it's a virus right now that the

13:29

industry has and I'm not sure what is going

13:33

to break loose. In terms of what will it be?

13:36

A lower interest rate because right now,

13:39

just from a financial perspective, if your

13:42

return on cost on a commercial project, say,

13:46

is 5%, that's too low because the cap rate

13:51

or the value that the building's actually worth, you can't have a 5% cap rate and a

13:57

5% return on cost that the capital markets

14:00

on the equity side will not accept that. So they want to see about a 0.5% above that

14:05

cap rate or a 6.5% return on cost and a 5%

14:09

cap.

14:11

And that would be bare minimum.

14:13

Bare minimum and we have projects that are

14:15

6%, 6.5% above a cap rate and just zero

14:21

interest. It's interesting, without naming names, I

14:25

spoke to a very prominent family who owns a

14:29

lot of hotels in Chicago and they're not

14:32

hurting for money, but they are just

14:36

sitting on the sidelines and they're not

14:39

interested and they have real estate in every single part of the United States.

14:43

They have a very large presence in San Francisco, as they do in Chicago, and they

14:49

just kind of hang in tight. I spoke to this great guy yesterday who

14:52

runs their San Francisco office and he's

14:55

like I don't know why we're not investing because there's good projects to invest in.

14:59

I just know that we're not and it's frustrating, and so it's just like who's

15:05

going to fire that starter spistle to bring

15:08

back wealth and commercial real estate? Because there's billions sitting on the

15:12

sidelines, guys, and the question is when

15:15

will that re-enter the market so we can get

15:17

going back on our city building, which has

15:21

been interrupted entirely by the pandemic

15:24

and has created a whole new kind of pattern

15:27

of migration and growth throughout this country?

15:30

Yeah, and I'm interested to see which

15:33

companies or what industries go back to

15:36

brick and mortar, because before the COVID

15:40

shutdown those mixed-use office buildings

15:44

where you could have a common space but then each company would kind of have their

15:48

own little office, I felt like those were

15:51

growing and now everybody's working at home.

15:54

And then obviously everybody boosted up

15:57

their delivery wing of their company.

16:00

So those storage, those industrial buildings have now kind of shrunk because

16:04

everything's delivery truck now. That's my worry for commercial is

16:10

everything is just going to kind of fade,

16:12

and I'm hoping it doesn't, because those

16:15

are important industries. That's what brings cities together, is the

16:19

companies.

16:21

Yeah, I think for a long time me personally

16:24

I was angry about the policies that was

16:30

just basically dictated to us by the health

16:32

officials in most of our counties, which

16:34

really shut down everything that you just

16:38

mentioned. And then, as we reopened, technology as

16:44

we're witnessing here in this podcast has

16:46

emerged as a more effective deliverable of

16:49

how people work and communicate, and so we

16:52

have a complete paradigm shift from going

16:56

to the office. So I don't think the dye has yet finalized

17:01

or cast on what does this look like, but I

17:04

think we all intuitively know how we're

17:06

feeling that and the evidence appears that

17:09

the hybrid will be standard for the large

17:13

companies and here in the Bay Area.

17:16

The easy ones are the Googles, the Apples,

17:18

the Intuites and the Navideas. Those companies have adopted, effectively,

17:25

models that allow their employees to have

17:27

flexibility, but that's great for them.

17:31

But it hurts people in our industry who

17:35

have been landlords and who have

17:38

essentially built these cities, because we had such a renaissance post-2008 of city

17:45

building and transit-oriented development and now we're finding that the daytime

17:53

population in San Francisco, san Jose,

17:55

oakland, los Angeles depending on where you're at is vastly different.

18:00

So a reinvention of those spaces,

18:02

especially on the office hotel side, is

18:05

underway and I would say, with the capital

18:07

markets and the things we just previously

18:11

discussed on cost, it is a barrier of entry

18:15

to reconfiguring, reimagining our city.

18:21

So I'm sure you guys have heard the saying

18:24

and I try to, since it's a Friday, let's be

18:27

a little humorous. There is a model in our industry, which is

18:30

what you've heard survive in 25, to see if

18:34

we can start a new process of city building

18:37

and a reinvention of the spaces now that

18:39

have been abandoned as a result of a remote

18:42

work.

18:43

Yeah, and I was going to ask you.

18:46

I don't want you to spill the beans of your

18:49

secret sauce of how you guys at Republic

18:52

Urban Properties are reinventing or

18:54

integrating.

18:55

Yeah Well, there's no secrets in commercial

18:58

real estate there isn't.

19:00

So I guess I will straight out ask what are

19:03

some things that you guys are doing with

19:05

some of your buildings, because from what I

19:07

read and I might be off on my information

19:11

you guys do a lot of multi-use. So, it's not just straight storefront, it

19:16

might be a storefront on the lower and rental units above.

19:20

Are those some of the things that you guys are adopting in your builds or in your

19:23

renovations to help kind of like lessen the

19:29

burden? Or in the residential space.

19:32

I'll say if you have a single family home and you have a vacancy, you are 100% vacant.

19:38

If you have a multifamily and you have a vacancy, you may be 25% vacant.

19:42

So that's a big liability on the single

19:47

family side and I would say that as a

19:49

commercial space, if you have a storefront

19:51

and there is vacancy, you are 100% vacant.

19:56

Yeah, and you bring up a good point in particular with these storefronts.

19:59

So storefronts between, say, 1500 feet and

20:03

5000 feet. These are small businesses and so what we

20:08

are. It's very difficult for small business

20:11

owners to get loans, and so we do have one

20:15

couple of large retail mixed use properties

20:20

and mixed use whatever reason.

20:23

An apartment above, say, in the case of

20:26

Milbury, california. It's really dependent on location and you

20:30

tend to get more of the corporations that

20:32

come into some of these good locations.

20:35

So that part of the mixed use for whatever

20:37

reasons, easier On a standalone basis, say

20:40

a strip retail. If you don't have an anchor tenant like a

20:44

Safeway or a Crowders or something that's

20:47

anchoring that shopping center, it is very

20:50

difficult to attract a number of users,

20:56

especially between, say, 1500 feet and 5000

20:59

feet. It's extraordinarily difficult, especially

21:02

if you're doing a new build, because that

21:05

means you better bring that new build to a warm shell, which means you have their

21:09

bathrooms, all the drywall and all the HVAC

21:13

system ready to go. If you don't, it's a struggle and I can say

21:17

that firsthand that we've struggled, going

21:19

from getting saying all right, here's a cold shell space, just the walls, no

21:24

bathrooms, none of the things I mentioned, none of the HVAC, none of the drywall.

21:30

It's a big deal for a small business to go from zero to a warm shell and building that

21:36

out. My life's just turned off here, so it's

21:39

probably no.

21:39

But the lighting looks like you're in a movie scene.

21:43

Oh, good, good it looks great.

21:46

Will we call it Godfather, or will we call

21:49

it one of my favorite Dumb and Dumber?

21:52

We'll have to figure out what movie Up to

21:54

Time Machine.

21:55

Wow.

21:57

But anyway you told him you had one right. Yeah, exactly.

22:01

In short, retail is a very difficult

22:04

commercial real estate asset and it

22:07

requires a ton of capital by the owner

22:10

Landlord. They have a ton of investment by the tenant,

22:13

and boy, you better make sure you pick the right tenant. I can tell you from experience I picked the

22:17

tenants really good tenants, and I picked

22:21

so not so good tenants and ones you would

22:24

think would have succeeded. That just great business plans would have

22:28

been amazing if they would have just had this place open.

22:31

But they couldn't go from zero to open

22:33

because they couldn't get the financial wherewithal in the loans that they need

22:37

small business-wise to make it happen. So it's a tough retail's a tough commercial

22:41

industry right now.

22:43

Yeah, and from what the little I know from

22:45

commercial, those staple tenants that you

22:48

said early on are important to that whole

22:51

shopping center. Oh yeah, because I mean that's a heavy

22:56

chunk of you. It may not be 100% of your fillable space,

23:00

but that's a large chunk of your profit.

23:03

Oh yeah, and if they leave the sale cycle

23:06

to get a new person in is so much longer,

23:09

like we think. On the residential side, like I'm gonna

23:11

list my house, someone will talk within 60

23:14

days we'll get a new owner title will

23:16

change. But even a rental unit, you put it up on

23:20

the market for a couple of months maybe and you get a tenant.

23:23

The commercial side it is a long sale cycle,

23:27

so there's a lot of holding costs and a lot

23:29

of nerves that go in. So that is a very stressful point to be in.

23:35

Thanks, for reminding me.

23:37

It is. It is you're, so I think you just captured

23:40

it beautifully. You know, I just sent a note to my this

23:45

5,000 square foot free-in restaurant.

23:49

He's got a permit ready to pick up. He's supposed to start paying rent in July

23:55

and he's been in contract with me now almost a year.

23:57

He hasn't started construction and it's

24:01

yeah. So there's a lot of sleepless nights, you

24:03

know, worrying about those type of tenants, and we do everything to help them.

24:08

You give them large tenant improvement allowances I'm talking several hundred

24:12

thousand dollars and yet sometimes that's

24:15

still not enough to get that business from.

24:18

You know, again, what we explained from cold show the warm show, the open, and so

24:22

it is. It's a I would tell you that the Republic.

24:26

You know a business plan. You know that was a business plan that we

24:28

started in 2016, 17, where everything

24:31

looked great, and again, once the pandemic

24:34

changed, and once it changed it forever,

24:37

and then interest rates now have really been our bugaboo.

24:41

You know, for small business, I don't again

24:43

I'm going back to our original kind of discussion on what's going to start, what's

24:47

not going to start. Within cities, I don't see a lot of new

24:50

retail and certainly office across the

24:54

country. I can't even see a day right now where

24:57

there would be demand for a new office building For exactly those reasons that you

25:00

mentioned.

25:02

Yeah, and the supply is up. So to build a new one, you're, yeah, kind

25:06

of just go take what is available, correct?

25:12

You had mentioned, or I read on the

25:16

background of the company and you guys were doing smart growth projects.

25:21

Can you explain what you mean by smart

25:24

growth projects? I don't know if that fills in with things

25:28

that you've got going on or if that is a

25:30

completely entirely thing, entirely

25:32

different thing, but I feel like it kind of

25:37

alludes to what you're trying to do to ease the tension of what's going on in the

25:40

commercial market.

25:43

Yeah, smart. Smart's an open-ended kind of definition,

25:47

maybe subjective to what you're applying it

25:50

to. I guess in California and I think we should

25:55

probably change the narrative from smart, sustainable and sociologically kind of in

26:02

fit there's a real movement.

26:05

As you probably know, california, we do

26:08

have a tremendous amount of wealth, and in

26:12

Silicon Valley there's a right, wrong or

26:14

indifferent because there is costs

26:16

associated with smart or sustainable and

26:20

green, whatever narrative you want to paint

26:23

it with. But there clearly is an effort to work

26:27

climate control into new development, and

26:31

that's the thing about new development. It's always the test case for providing

26:38

smart, sustainable, green, whatever you

26:41

want to apply, and so real examples of that

26:44

are now here in California. Again, these come with costs.

26:49

So I'm just reporting the news in that

26:52

we're forced in most cases to do smart

26:56

growth, which I think long-term is best for

27:00

the environment. But, for example, now in California, in

27:03

most cities everything is electric.

27:06

So if I want to build a mixed-use project,

27:10

my water heaters or my boiler it has to be

27:13

electric. My ground floor retail with my chef has to

27:18

be electric. That's not necessarily something chefs want

27:21

to hear when they're not going to attract a

27:23

marquee restaurant to a destination. So that's one example.

27:27

They call it the Greenpoint Energy Standards here that we have.

27:31

But I think then there's the when you get

27:33

back to what I would define as smart it's.

27:37

Most people would agree because they

27:40

probably thought the same thing. You walk by that corner gas station that

27:45

was shuttered. They pulled the tanks out.

27:48

What should be on that corner? And it gets back to.

27:51

Okay, maybe there's a bus stop there or

27:54

there's a rail stop or there's something

27:56

that we need to put in there as an infill

27:58

project commercial, hotel, office building

28:03

not likely anymore, but certainly for

28:05

somewhere so people to live, to be in that

28:07

community. So again, I think smart may be overused,

28:12

but I would say that it's a blue sky thing

28:14

to make sure that you're putting in the

28:16

right type of development for that neighborhood, for that city, but also going

28:21

a step further and you probably are making

28:23

sure that it hits all of those

28:26

environmentally sustainable items that you can hit without it overburning the project

28:31

to be unfinanceable. And so solar, now charging stations.

28:37

I think these are all things that people want and expect and need if we are going to

28:43

somehow combat climate change on some level.

28:46

That's again whether you fall down in your political narrative, whether you agree with

28:50

that or not. I think that's in our community now as

28:54

developers. That's considered smart, those types, okay

28:58

okay, if that's where I wasn't sure of it.

29:00

What's that?

29:01

I just have a random idea, like you know

29:03

how charging stations, right, like they're normally tied to, like shopping malls or

29:08

like dealerships, or sometimes municipal

29:11

buildings or city buildings, right, why not

29:15

convert old gas stations, like you said,

29:18

where they pull the tanks but in charging

29:20

stations? I don't know how much that costs, I'm sure it's a pretty big amount.

29:24

But then add, like activity centers Once

29:27

they start charging their car, they get a code they can enter a gated like basketball

29:32

court, tennis courts, pickleball courts, like something to pass the time, instead of

29:36

them just sitting in their car waiting for the car to charge, cause sometimes it could

29:40

take 45 minutes an hour. Right, like again.

29:44

I've been loosely following like electric

29:46

vehicles and what they require, and some

29:49

have gotten better with their quick charge to 80%, but it's still you're just sitting

29:53

around. So why not do something while you're doing nothing?

29:56

I don't know like.

29:57

I love your idea and I think a little known

30:02

fact a Shell Oil Company just purchased

30:04

some of the larger charging stations, so I

30:07

think they have to start putting charging

30:10

stations on gas stations, that's just. They have to do it.

30:13

There's a little concern and there's engineering related to gas versus

30:17

electricity. That makes sense, but they'll figure that

30:20

out. But I like where you're going with your idea on.

30:24

That has to be integrated into commercial projects, in particular, maybe retail

30:29

themed projects like you're talking about,

30:32

and it's funny you mentioned that because

30:35

there are a number of great pickleball concepts.

30:39

Tesla is making massive investments in the

30:42

infrastructure, so I think what you just

30:44

stated, I think that's happening and I

30:48

think that's something that investors

30:50

should look towards, and there's some great

30:53

startup businesses that are going to do exactly what you just mentioned.

30:56

So it's not an idea, it is a business plan

30:59

and I think it's going to be. You're going to see that country wide

31:02

because to I still don't own an electric

31:05

car, why? Well, I'm an anxious guy. I have fear of anxiety and of range anxiety.

31:10

And then also the depreciating values of

31:12

electric cars. On the minute you talk about driving a car

31:15

up a lot, you know you lose value On an electric car.

31:18

You better understand that there's not much

31:20

of a resell market if you're putting 50K mile on it and what's that going to be?

31:24

That being said, you know we need the

31:27

infrastructure and I love your idea and,

31:31

frankly, it's probably an idea that's going

31:34

to be implemented in some of our projects going forward.

31:37

Yeah.

31:39

Pretty cool and of course Dan brings pickleball into the show Big pickleball.

31:44

I don't really have a pickleball head, but today I chose the branding, the company

31:48

branding.

31:48

So that's fine.

31:49

Okay.

31:50

Okay, well, pickleball, I'm sure as it is, there is just a rage across the country.

31:55

So, and it's so consistent with commercial

31:59

real estate, it's fantastic.

32:02

That's funny.

32:04

That's cool. Yeah, I was going to ask about the charging stations because, as California has been

32:09

pushing more and more for regulations for electric vehicles and I don't I'm not from

32:15

California. Electric vehicles here in the Midwest Don't

32:19

do well in the cold, so you see very few of

32:22

them out here. But in California, like I'm seeing videos

32:26

on social media and news coverage about how

32:29

people aren't getting their cars charged in,

32:32

the charging stations aren't working because it's too cold and there's a lot of

32:36

issues with that, and I figure, like if

32:39

there's a big push to go to electric

32:41

vehicles, they're going to have to get more charging stations.

32:44

That's inevitable, and where are they going to put these things?

32:48

So I'm glad that it seems like the feel of

32:51

the climate in California is to push to get

32:53

more of those in, because obviously if you're going that direction, it's going to

32:56

need to happen.

32:58

Yeah, tesla is going to emerge as the what

33:01

they call the type three charging station.

33:04

You know the rapid charging station, they

33:07

they appear to be the safest choice in

33:10

terms of providing that infrastructure.

33:13

And you know, by way of example, that same Livermore project that I've mentioned,

33:17

they're going to be putting those type three stations in the shopping center, so

33:21

it's along the freeway and then you'll have

33:23

that. But I like where Dan was going and that you

33:25

know how do you capitalize that as a revenue generator?

33:28

Also, and I do think you know whether it's

33:31

a brewery or a tap house that you don't

33:35

want to mix drink.

33:38

But we're not condoning them, mixing them, we're just offering another service.

33:43

But in California and retail, my good

33:46

friend Don and Wally here, wally Stanger,

33:48

he always says that retail really has a bandwidth, which is how many forms of food

33:53

or how much can the stomach, you know,

33:56

really be the generator to retail? In other words, most of our retail uses are

34:00

food oriented and so there's a bandwidth of

34:02

how many things that you can provide that

34:05

are food driven. And then what can you provide?

34:07

Such a dance point, you know, a pickleball,

34:11

or even a spot where you're maybe you're traveling with your children, maybe there's

34:14

a jump house or something or you know kind

34:17

of non food entertainment.

34:20

You know, we still think movie theaters and

34:24

I want to go to movie tonight, and there's, there's things that, like you said, if the

34:28

future is plug weight.

34:31

How do you take advantage that commercial real estate, dan, I think you've done a

34:35

great job identifying as one way to do it and that could help reinvigorate some of

34:39

these commercial places that are not doing well.

34:41

Yeah interesting and I'm all about electric

34:44

vehicles. I wish we could do more in the Midwest.

34:47

But that your range anxiety that you're

34:51

talking about is what I have, because I was

34:53

looking at that Ford lightning oh, that'd

34:56

be so cool, like the towing capacity is

34:58

pretty much the same as what I have, but I

35:01

couldn't get to Milwaukee and back pulling

35:03

the trailer Like that.

35:05

I can't do that.

35:06

There's no way to do that with your guest, because you leave it, you leave it on, you

35:10

leave it on the all the time. This guy is notorious for riding into the

35:14

station on fumes man.

35:15

He gives other people anxiety of the gas car.

35:19

Yesterday I rolled into the gas station

35:21

zero miles to empty and I pulled into the

35:24

pump.

35:25

It took you only five minutes, to you know, to basically fill it up, 10 minutes to fill

35:28

it up, whereas it might take 30 minutes. On the chart, again, that's where the

35:34

manufacturers are now looking at.

35:36

Well, maybe the all electric needs to be

35:39

blended in a hybrid sense, and I think

35:41

we're going to trap trap towards that. But, as you know, in California, by 2035,

35:47

our government right on our own or indifferent, has mandated that there will

35:50

be no more gas sales. Of that, the legislator and the next

35:55

governor may need to rethink that strategy.

35:58

If we don't have this infrastructure in place, yeah, that would be a devastating

36:02

part to an already expensive economy that

36:06

we have here. And so again in California, we we want to

36:11

do the right thing, we want to do it in the

36:14

right time, you know for climate control, but you know you got to push the envelope

36:18

to where you're not. You know you don't become non competitive

36:23

and I think there's some concerns right now

36:25

that California could be non competitive if it doesn't start to kind of tack back

36:29

towards a little bit more middle ground. And we have electric, electric cars on the

36:35

future and we have some of the best ones here in the world and it is an opportunity

36:39

for commercial real estate, as we touched

36:42

on. To take advantage of that and to reinvent

36:45

space is that would also benefit. You know, charging stations and electric

36:48

cars.

36:50

Yeah, and on the electric theme, even the I

36:52

know the vehicles are one side, but the

36:54

commercial, the residential houses with solar you'd mentioned that as well, and I

36:59

came to a company actually based out of California to get solar panels on my house,

37:03

and the topic of the battery storage came

37:06

up. Yeah, you're like, do you want one? Now's, like, what's your recommendation?

37:10

I'm not knowledgeable in this. You tell me, and they're like, to be honest,

37:15

tesla is going to create a battery that's much better than what we have today.

37:19

So, don't go with it. Take your dollar for dollar buyback from

37:22

the city. Just wait until the next battery comes out,

37:26

or two versions from now, because it's

37:28

going to hold more. It's just going to be better.

37:32

That's where technology is going, so that

37:35

was their recommendation, and they're in the solar electric world.

37:38

Yeah, in California now you used to be able

37:43

to have solar. You know, invert that power and it would go

37:47

back into the grid and PG would pay it, you

37:50

know, for you and there was a you know and

37:53

there's obviously heavy, heavy federal and state incentives.

37:56

A lot of those have gone away, in particular the utility commission companies

37:59

here and the utility commission has

38:02

redirected that that you can really no

38:05

longer as a as a homeowner, business owner,

38:09

sell power back into the grid.

38:12

You can only really. Yeah, that power goes free to the utility.

38:17

Now you have the ability to store it to

38:20

your point about a battery and then you can

38:23

program your battery and your system that

38:26

when, when PG in this case here in

38:28

California starts charging you for the

38:30

highest per kilowatt hour, say at 5pm when

38:33

you get home you want to start cooking, you want to do laundry you can actually have

38:37

that battery supplement that time.

38:39

Therefore, that will lower your rate

38:42

because you're not on the grid PG. So to your point.

38:47

I agree that you know you better make sure

38:49

that you have your best performing battery

38:53

and it might make sense to wait. But a lot of people here in California are

38:56

not waiting. They're still federal and state incentives

38:58

for those batteries. But it's a, it's a commitment and you're

39:02

going to have to put some upfront dollars into it. Meanwhile the PG and here in California,

39:07

continues to raise rates and it's very

39:09

expensive. It's affecting all of our commercial real

39:12

estate. That, plus insurance costs, are really

39:15

affecting the expense side of commercial real estate but also hitting the pocketbook

39:19

of, you know, john and Joe and Q public.

39:22

Again, that's part of the issue here in California that we're still facing post

39:26

pandemic.

39:27

Yeah, how long ago did they change that

39:29

regulation to where you can't sell back the power to the utility company?

39:34

I believe around. I think it's the loss changed from 2022 to

39:38

2023.

39:39

That's my man, that's a big hit.

39:41

That was a big selling feature for me, where I could sell it back because the

39:45

batteries are so expensive they are, and

39:48

that's why, oh man, that stinks.

39:50

You might check your local jurisdiction. Obviously, each power company works

39:53

differently. Yeah, wonderful to set specific gas and

39:56

electric they. That's how they operate.

40:01

The wonderful Um are you starting to,

40:07

because you were talking about, with your commercial spaces, letting it pretty much

40:10

build the suit so you give them the outside

40:12

structure they can go in. Are you now putting electric, like solar,

40:19

for those commercial properties that you're building now?

40:21

Are you, are you already putting those in,

40:24

knowing where it's headed, or is that

40:26

something that your, your new tenant, would

40:29

come in and put that in?

40:33

No, if it's a, you know, a retail office,

40:36

that's our responsibility and then the

40:38

tenant shares the benefit of the power and

40:42

as a case of this building that we're

40:44

sitting in here I have pretty much

40:47

mitigates all my power. But again, under that model I mentioned, it

40:51

sells it, it goes back into the grid and PG

40:54

me gives me a slight credit as a business

40:57

owner, but it also mitigates the power of

40:59

needs of my large restaurant. I have an 8,000 square foot restaurant on a

41:02

multi story and so it helps that tenant

41:05

with his electricity bills, so they're not

41:07

as much fluctuation and their costs, which

41:11

allows for a higher rent they can pay.

41:12

So yes, and then?

41:14

for the, for the residential apartments and

41:17

or town loans, and in particular, we are

41:20

required to provide solar plus charging

41:22

stations. Moving forward, that is a standard now of

41:25

all projects. But from a bill for rent, which are town

41:28

homes, now that we're building, imagine two car garage, five unit town homes,

41:33

commercial property, and we read we're giving, where you drive in your garage,

41:37

your charging station is already retrofitted and ready to go.

41:41

You probably said provide the cord and then

41:43

you have solar also, that's power in your

41:46

house. That is the new standard now.

41:49

It actually it is a cost benefit when

41:51

you're doing more lower density, whether

41:53

single family homes, town homes, why?

41:56

Well, I'm not having to provide those gas

41:58

lines you know in, so I'm saving a little

42:02

bit on the. You know the heavy infrastructure.

42:05

When I build road, street sewer, at least I

42:08

can leave out that gas option and I'm

42:10

supplementing that with, you know, solar

42:13

and those things that go with solar. So that's that part of it is actually

42:17

heavily incentivized and there's a lot of

42:20

solar companies that want to be involved,

42:22

that are giving the developer benefits moving forward, and there's real income

42:26

that you can actually achieve if you design

42:29

and build your apartment, your town homes, that way.

42:32

I got you, yeah, and you kind of hit on my next question of cost when you put those

42:36

things in. I wouldn't imagine it'd be like a break

42:39

even where you save on the gas line but the

42:42

electric that you need to upgrade would pretty much break even and cost.

42:48

Have you guys gone through like what it does cost to add a charging station?

42:52

Like what would installing one charging station be at this point?

42:56

And I'm guessing those costs will go lower

42:59

as more and more people are in the game and we get more competition with it.

43:03

Yeah, good question. The solar companies A lot of times will

43:07

become your partner and they'll be your

43:10

third party vendor. So in many cases they'll give you maybe the

43:15

charging station for a very discounted rate,

43:19

or the or the battery pack would have you in return.

43:22

So you're you're leasing those from them

43:25

which they make money from and you make

43:28

money from as well, depending on your

43:30

arrangement with that solar provider. So it is, it is, it's become a more of a

43:36

value add in your revenue side to work with

43:40

these solar companies at the beginning of

43:42

your project. Same thing with Tesla.

43:44

They'll come into your shopping center without a cost, they will provide all the

43:50

infrastructure charging stations, canopies

43:52

for solar and you rent on top of that based

43:56

upon you know what they generate and

43:59

they'll revenue share in some cases to put

44:02

those stations in. So you, I think, I think the balance is

44:06

shifted now that it is an incentive for

44:10

developers on the commercial real estate side to put charging stations, solar, into

44:15

the projects, because there is very

44:17

entrepreneurial time for these solar companies.

44:21

Awesome. Yeah, I feel like we're looking into the

44:24

future because we haven't gotten there really in Wisconsin, so it's, I don't know,

44:30

I'll show you how it works, but we can't do

44:32

anything about your weather.

44:33

That's the problem.

44:34

In a couple of years we won't have winter. I mean it snowed five times since December.

44:41

Maybe a significant amount to be affecting

44:44

stuff. I luckily dodged it.

44:47

I'm not in Wisconsin today. I'm actually in Phoenix area for the next

44:51

couple of weeks.

44:52

Spring training.

44:52

Yeah, I get to enjoy this out here it's 85

44:57

degrees at six o'clock PM and at the

45:00

Brewers watching Brewers play San Francisco.

45:03

Oh, my San Francisco giants, I think we won yesterday.

45:06

Yeah, you did. You guys put it on in the middle, middle

45:08

innings there.

45:11

I love the brew, brew.

45:14

I think, with all of this talk, we should get into discussing how much we should be

45:19

investing in Tesla, especially with how low

45:21

it is right now.

45:24

Oh, what's the?

45:24

stock at no stock chips from this guy.

45:27

I can only get some of those.

45:30

We should throw the disclaimer that this is entertainment.

45:32

We're not giving stock advice.

45:34

There you go, because you don't want to hear my stock advice.

45:37

Yeah, tesla, I would imagine, has a bright

45:39

future in the solar business and battery

45:43

business. Obviously we still think of it as a

45:47

California company because we know Elon

45:49

Musk if you're listening, we know you live

45:53

in here in the Bay Area more than you said.

45:57

Right now it's at 169.

46:00

It was 407 in November of 21.

46:06

With all of the charging stations and that

46:10

stuff coming and the batteries that Marcus

46:14

said he had experienced with that solar

46:16

energy company, it might not be a bad gig.

46:19

But you could create competitions to get

46:22

the people to come to those stations

46:24

specifically to let their kids run wild and

46:29

then compete against other people charging their cars.

46:31

They throw out the paddles and let's go.

46:35

I love your pickleball. You have no idea how close of a reality

46:40

that's going to be. I think you're seeing the future, Dan.

46:43

I think you're there.

46:46

I only had some money from the property.

46:48

I think you've got the other stuff down cold.

46:51

Yeah, yeah, that's funny Cool.

46:56

We only have a few minutes left, but we didn't get to talk into what you're on to

47:00

next In the beginning of the show.

47:02

I think we're off air. Actually, you were talking about how

47:05

seasonal commercial real estate is, and

47:08

right now we're in the spring, so we are hitting the busiest portion of both

47:13

residential and commercial. So for you guys over at Republic, what is

47:18

on the horizon for your spring summer, or

47:20

what are you looking forward to out of the

47:22

dark ages?

47:23

Yes, yes, and this has been a fun time

47:28

spending time with you guys Really appreciate it and I'd say, going forward.

47:32

We still have the same business plans to

47:36

try and start some projects, both for multi

47:39

family hotels, but I think where we're

47:44

immediately trending towards a start,

47:48

although we still have some you know some concerns about the capital markets assuming

47:52

the capital markets, maybe you know kind of

47:55

heal a little bit more. While we're still in the building season,

47:58

we have a large project in Fairfield, california.

48:01

That's kind of halfway between Sacramento,

48:03

california and the Bay Area, and there you

48:06

have a tremendous amount of growth from life science Large companies like Genentech

48:12

and Roche and these large life science companies that are in this Solano County

48:16

region. And then you have military bases there as

48:22

well in Fairfield. So we're looking at, as I touched on

48:24

briefly called Build for Rent. It's that five unit town home, because here

48:29

in the Bay Area we're starting to see, you

48:31

know, people that live in cities who are,

48:34

say, now in their you know early 30s.

48:37

You know they're we talked about home

48:39

ownership how difficult it is and so.

48:42

But people don't necessarily want to spend their entire life in a two bedroom flat,

48:46

especially when these two bedroom flats and I built them are really not designed for

48:51

kids. They may be designed for dogs but they

48:54

don't have a lot of features for kids and,

48:56

frankly, most people need three bedrooms and they need cars and they're going to

49:01

drive. So we're looking at this Build for Rent

49:04

project. It's catching fire and has all throughout

49:08

the Southeast and places like Charlotte,

49:11

atlanta Also. We're Dan's at not too far from there, dan.

49:15

You can probably see some of those examples in the greater Phoenix Metro.

49:18

But again, imagine five unit town homes

49:21

side by side, garage for two car garage I

49:24

mentioned, you know, having charging stations, solar, but also a little backyard

49:28

for their dog or for their child and then

49:30

an amenity space just like an apartment pool, community room, gym, but detached,

49:36

not in a multi level but within more of a

49:38

subdivision, but operates as commercial

49:41

real estate, meaning everyone pays rent and

49:43

there's one landlord. So that's what we're trying to start here.

49:48

It's capital markets have been a little

49:50

quirky, as you know, but we still think

49:52

long term that business plan, because if

49:55

things are going to be so expensive to build on a multi level, you know kind of

49:59

basis it only makes sense that maybe a

50:01

lower density when I say lower density.

50:04

I mean 25 to say 30 units of the acre

50:07

versus, say, 55 to 100 units in the acre,

50:10

more spread out. And so we're excited to start that business

50:14

plan. Hopefully this year we've had a lot of a

50:17

lot of interest in and I think the business

50:19

fans have been proven in those areas I mentioned. But that's pretty much what we're involved

50:25

with, that and just kind of asset management, making sure that we have, you

50:29

know, working a lot in the capital markets on on longer term loans for our assets

50:33

that's. I spent a lot of time doing that and then

50:36

and so again survived in 25 and hopefully

50:40

we'll be in a position in 25 and beyond

50:42

with a more stabilized interest rate where that's the new norm and we could once again

50:47

kind of heat this thing up. But that again will depend on jobs and a

50:51

lot of other factors that I don't think the three of us can control.

50:54

But hey, it's great and there's challenges,

50:58

but we work hard and we still try to do

51:01

what we can to make every city we work in a

51:04

better place to be.

51:05

Yeah, I could got one question regarding those five, five unit, five townhomes

51:10

you're talking about. Would there ever be a situation where,

51:14

after you guys build it, you could sell

51:17

each individual unit back to the homeowner

51:20

and then basically say, hey, you five are now this community with these amenities,

51:25

obviously the price then you would reflect because they have access to that gym or

51:29

that pool or whatever else you that could

51:31

be get a higher ask for the single.

51:35

More of a condo feel kind of yeah.

51:38

Yeah, in California we have a 10 year

51:40

liability on construction defect, and so

51:44

it's, it would be a safe assumption to make

51:47

that after a 10 year period.

51:50

In particular and I'm only speaking about California that would be an option to do

51:55

that. And again, maybe the next kind of turbo

51:58

charge to this business, to where we could

52:01

increase home ownership. And you know which, I think at the end of

52:04

the day, even though I'm a commercial builder, you know, really you need people

52:08

to own their homes, to invest in communities, so yeah, and that would be an

52:12

incredible way to boost home ownership,

52:15

specifically in high barrier entry markets

52:18

like California.

52:19

Yeah, I really like that plan. That mid density is always a sweet spot For

52:25

me. Personally, I feel like that's like the safe area to be in.

52:29

Not everybody wants the a class, the 6000,

52:32

10,000 square foot house. Well, I'll call it a mansion at that point.

52:36

Yeah.

52:37

In Wisconsin.

52:38

What's that? I said in Wisconsin, yeah definitely In

52:42

California we got to get a little bit more square footage, called a mansion, maybe on

52:46

a mountainside somewhere, but that mid

52:49

density, that, the smaller footprint house

52:53

with a little bit of a yard, is something sought after because you're seeing people

52:58

push away from the apartment complexes of

53:00

100 and, unless they need to, with either

53:04

price or location, a lot of people would

53:07

like a little backyard but not a huge yard

53:09

where they're outside mowing it for two

53:11

hours in an afternoon and not a lot of

53:14

house where they have to clean all the time, because a lot of people now, the younger

53:18

generation and I'm not that old, but the

53:20

younger generation is more after like

53:24

experiences and they'd rather spend their money traveling.

53:27

So those smaller price point homes, which

53:30

is just enough space for them, I think, is

53:33

where where the future is going. So to get on that now, I think is a

53:37

brilliant idea.

53:39

Absolutely. And I think it would be on 55, heading to,

53:41

hopefully to my golden years and I would

53:44

say the empty nester with with echo and

53:46

everything, and you believe we'll see a

53:50

lower density product bill as, again,

53:54

capital markets will never stay dormant

53:56

forever and be a prominent business plan

54:00

moving forward. So yeah, I appreciate what you're saying

54:02

because it really is your generation that we're targeting.

54:05

Knowing that you have younger children, you

54:08

probably don't, maybe don't want to own, and there's a lot of younger people now

54:11

that don't want to hide.

54:14

That's your point. So I completely agree, and it really is

54:17

dependent on you, know that kind of mindset

54:20

that will drive this business point.

54:24

That's exciting. I'm excited to see what you guys do with it.

54:26

So you just want to send us that business plan.

54:29

It's a science brewer series. Let's hang out, let's have a hot dog, and

54:32

then I'll take you around and show you all these communities and share this plan with

54:36

us to certainly send us the start

54:40

replicating that here and then maybe give you a kickback or something.

54:43

Hey, listen, there's no secrets in

54:46

commercial real estate. Gentlemen, take every idea and run with it.

54:49

That's what makes our industry fun.

54:51

Yeah, and I would take you up on a giant

54:54

scheme. Hunter Pence is no longer playing for you,

54:57

so I can do it.

54:58

No, but I think you are hunter pets. You look just like him.

55:01

Oh, don't say that he's my most. I don't know why, but I could not get on

55:05

board with him. I hope I didn't look like Hunter Pence when

55:11

I was batting. That's what bugged me. That was awkward, but he was an all star

55:16

and I'll never take away his accomplishments.

55:18

But man, that was gangly.

55:21

That's awkward if you remember that World Series where he hit the ball like three

55:25

times when he was swinging through.

55:27

But but he is beloved and he has a San

55:31

Francisco very a resident now and one of

55:35

our color commentator. So, like I said, you can be his

55:37

doppelganger.

55:39

I've gotten a bum gardener. That's what I got.

55:43

Another stalwart, but yeah, little, little,

55:46

little different personality.

55:48

Yeah, no, that's cool.

55:51

Well, I'm hope. Wait, we're on an even year, so San

55:54

Francisco is their odds to win the World

55:56

Series.

55:57

I don't think we'll win the World Series. You guys have a team that could lost your

56:01

manager, but you should be in the mix this

56:03

year. I'd love for you to beat that Chicago top

56:05

Cubs team.

56:06

Thank you for not mentioning his name. That's a, that's a trader move of.

56:09

I've ever seen one man that was treacherous,

56:13

oh man, and he's. He's got kids that go to high school in in

56:18

like Whitefish Bay, so like it's for them.

56:21

I know they got a lot of flak because he

56:23

was he was deep rooted in that community and then for him to just say, hey, let's.

56:27

But I understand it because he had pressure from other managers across the MLB saying

56:32

if you don't take this money, you're affecting our pockets down the road.

56:36

So is that your rival, the Cubs are the

56:38

brewers rival, right.

56:40

Yeah, them and St Louis, I think they they,

56:43

they frustrate me so much. Yadir Molina, albert Pujols, back in the

56:47

day who else was with them?

56:49

And just they, they, cubs and Cubs.

56:52

And St Louis frustrated me so much.

56:54

Yes, yes, for us it's the Dodgers.

56:57

Yeah, yeah them too when we get to the NLCS

56:59

or LDS.

57:00

Yeah, we don't like the Dodgers.

57:01

Now you'll have fun with Otani this year. Yeah, at least he won't be pitching against

57:05

you.

57:05

Yeah Well, he better be careful too about

57:08

his little friend, and that, and I heard,

57:11

handling situation is not a good look. That's not a good look.

57:14

So I didn't get to read much on it and I know this has nothing to do with real

57:17

estate. So if the visitors came for real estate,

57:20

they can, they can click out.

57:21

If you stayed to the end, you get some nuggets.

57:23

Yeah, yeah, well, we it sounds like we're

57:25

all baseball fans, which is what we're living for here coming up.

57:29

Yeah, this big baseball.

57:31

I still have all of the wood bats in college that I had.

57:35

I'd broken not me personally, but I was a pitcher.

57:37

Yeah, yeah, that I have.

57:40

We had hung up in our college apartment Okay.

57:42

Nice, the bats have broken dreams.

57:45

Love souvenirs.

57:47

It was a great souvenir, yeah, so Otani's

57:52

translator.

57:54

Yes.

57:55

Was was betting for Otani?

57:58

No, he was betting on an MBA, soccer and

58:01

other things, allegedly through a bookie,

58:04

but to the tune of hundreds of thousands of

58:06

dollars, which he then stole from Otani to pay back.

58:09

Okay, that's where it was. There was something where it crossed over

58:12

to Otani's bank account.

58:13

Yeah, Stole from Otani. Hey, I'm taking this money.

58:17

Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, that's what the

58:20

story?

58:20

I didn't get to read much on it so I was kind of curious on what was going on with

58:23

that one yeah.

58:26

He's spurned the.

58:27

Giants. You know the Giants really wanted him to

58:29

come to San Francisco. So have fun in LA.

58:36

Well, good luck to the Giants this year.

58:39

It's hard to cheer.

58:40

It's hard to cheer against the Giants.

58:43

It is.

58:43

I'm telling you boys, if you guys come out to San Francisco, we'll go to a game.

58:48

Talk some more commercial real estate, and it's been a pleasure being on your show.

58:53

Hold on one second. Who was the manager for San Francisco at

58:56

Miller Park? When it was Miller Park, they would be

58:59

yelling out was it Bochi, Bochi, Boat?

59:02

They would. They would rass him the whole time when I

59:05

would go to those games.

59:06

Man Bochi Four times Bochi yeah, three with

59:10

the Giants, one with the Texas Rangers.

59:12

Wow.

59:13

We miss him. It was a dumb move. Let him go.

59:16

Yup, I agree.

59:18

Well, cool.

59:19

It was a very enjoyable conversation.

59:21

Love the dialogue here and the information

59:24

Tidbits.

59:24

Yeah.

59:24

That's great.

59:27

I really appreciate it and feel free to stay in touch and, like I said, let's get

59:31

to ghetto soon.

59:32

Yeah, absolutely. I'll definitely keep in touch because

59:34

commercial real estate is something that I've wanted to do.

59:37

We've got this ski hill that's in in the

59:40

town that I live in been vacant for maybe a

59:44

decade, 15 years. There was three owners to the land and one

59:51

of them died and there was a big probate battle of who owns what.

59:55

So it just sits there vacant every year. The ski lift is still on there and I've got

1:00:00

this like pipe dream of putting like little

1:00:03

modular, like Airbnb's on this hill,

1:00:07

Because again in the summer it's a big lake

1:00:09

draw, so people coming up from Illinois or

1:00:12

down from Minnesota have a place to stay.

1:00:17

Our city doesn't really like short term rentals, which is a hiccup there.

1:00:20

Yeah, and then to find out who and how to

1:00:23

obtain the land, but stuff like that would

1:00:26

be a nice, exciting second step in a real

1:00:29

estate or to get into commercial.

1:00:32

But I'm going to stream, because you'll be

1:00:34

surprised at how often dreams come reality

1:00:37

commercial real estate. So dream your best dream and, and you know,

1:00:42

always hook up with people that are smarter than you and just like I knew, and you'll

1:00:47

be surprised how fast those become reality.

1:00:50

We'll have to make a way up to San Francisco.

1:00:52

Yes, all right, gentlemen, thank you so

1:00:55

much for being on your show. I appreciate it. Yeah, thanks for coming on.

1:00:57

Thanks for giving us the time. Enjoy your weekend you too, my friends,

1:01:00

take care Bye, bye, see ya.

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