0:00

Hey there here's what's

0:00

coming up in this episode.

0:03

the things that happen are not amazing. Some of them are just, you're like, what?

0:08

it's ludicrous, but I don't believe

0:08

it has to be miserable all the time.

0:14

Mm-hmm. And I thought if I'm gonna

0:14

make perimenopause my identity, it's gonna be fun.

0:19

so that's what I did. Welcome to the My Aloof Vagina Podcast,

0:21

where we explore the distress and

0:26

surprise of our midlife transitions.

0:28

It's inevitable, so we may as well

0:28

equip ourselves and have a good time.

0:32

hey there, I'm just popping in to provide

0:32

an introduction to this bonus episode.

0:38

It's. Part of an interview I did and

0:38

I cut it to fit this show.

0:43

because their show is a bit longer But

0:43

if you want to hear more, you can find

0:46

their entire podcast anywhere you listen.

0:49

it's called navigating joy

0:49

together and it's a family.

0:52

Doing episodes about the different

0:52

tactics they're using to make sure

0:56

they keep joy alive in their lives.

0:59

I found it to be a really sweet show. I found the family to be lovely.

1:02

Lauren, the mom. Is a woman also of a certain age.

1:05

And we hit it off. I think you might enjoy today's.

1:09

Excerpts. Is that how you say that? I have only read it.

1:12

Excerpt to you. Do you even pronounce the P I don't know.

1:15

That's not the point. The point is. , I do talk about.

1:17

The journey of the podcast.

1:20

I do talk a little bit about

1:20

the relational situation.

1:23

That left me depressed. And.

1:26

Kind of fueled my search for

1:26

meaning Martha's search for meaning.

1:31

That finally got my

1:31

podcast off the ground.

1:33

So that may or may not be interesting to you. If not that's okay.

1:36

This is just a bonus. Without any further ado.

1:39

Let's. Make our way through

1:40

navigating joy to get there.

1:44

Martha McBride,

1:44

thank you so much for being

1:47

here. Hi. Hi.

1:48

So would you tell us

1:48

a little bit about yourself?

1:50

Yeah, I am.

1:52

In my fifties, I'm single. I'm actually a grandmother now.

1:56

I'm a nana, which is crazy.

1:58

Oh And I have just gotten into

1:58

podcasting after a lifetime of

2:04

wanting to do something like that,

2:04

I just seized this season in my life

2:08

to do Something that brings me joy. But I have a long background in media and

2:10

writing and all those kinds of things.

2:17

actually a, varied background

2:17

because I was a single mom.

2:20

I got pregnant very young and then

2:20

divorced, so I kind of hustled through

2:25

life and was just doing whatever I

2:25

could do and needed to do to support

2:29

my son, which meant a lot of really

2:29

responsible jobs and a lot of making

2:33

choices that were based on necessity. So I'm grateful to be in this season

2:35

where I'm older and I can do other

2:39

things and kind of experiment and do some

2:39

things that are a little more frivolous.

2:43

First question, what

2:43

drives your daily joyful choices?

2:48

Currently? Yes. Let's talk about very currently.

2:51

Cause , I have to admit that I've

2:51

had periods of time where I'm

2:54

not as in touch with joy.

2:56

And I actually came out of a depression,

2:56

which happens after a bad experience.

3:01

I had a terrible breakup. Mm-hmm. It wasn't just the

3:03

breakup that was terrible. Really.

3:05

A couple years leading up to the breakup. It was not great didn't realize

3:07

how disconnected I was from joy.

3:12

I certainly looked joyful to other

3:12

people cause I am, one of those people

3:16

and I show up shiny and happy and

3:16

optimistic because I am naturally.

3:21

And I was kind of gaslighting myself

3:21

a little bit with how happy I was.

3:25

Things are great, To kind

3:25

of mask the real feelings.

3:28

it wasn't until I processed the

3:28

grief of the breakup that all

3:32

the actual deep joy came back.

3:35

Mm-hmm. So I was doing the things to.

3:37

Cultivate joy to choose joy,

3:37

to increase joy in my life.

3:41

I was doing that maybe a little bit

3:41

more desperately than normal, but I'd

3:45

lost sight of what it feels like to

3:45

feel truly, deeply joyful during that

3:51

time that I was denying my truth and

3:51

denying the real feelings, and trying to

3:57

kind of cover up for myself and ignore.

4:00

And la la la my way through things

4:00

that were a problem, so right now

4:04

I'm currently in a very joyful

4:04

place, but it wasn't long ago.

4:07

I can remember it really vividly.

4:09

That I kind of had lost my

4:09

connection to daily joy.

4:13

That was real. so one of the ways that I know, when

4:15

I'm in a joyful place I sing more like

4:19

that make up stupid songs when I'm

4:19

doing some nice, sing the words, and

4:23

that's like an indicator to me like, oh

4:23

yeah, you're in that place right now.

4:26

Even if I'm singing, why can't

4:26

I Fi find my Stupid Keys?

4:31

Right? Yes. Because I'm still in the place

4:33

where singing comes naturally.

4:38

So, so that's joy. Right. And it's, it's, it's a clue to me

4:40

that I might be really annoyed with

4:43

myself right now because I can't

4:43

find my keys, but I am still in joy.

4:47

and the other indicator, which I hadn't

4:47

realized was missing during that period

4:52

of time, was that in the morning? At some point?

4:55

Probably 20 years ago, I started

4:55

this practice I would lay in my bed and

5:00

go through my gratitude in the morning

5:00

and think these positive thoughts.

5:03

This was a really tough period in my life. So I was, you know, really trying

5:05

to create these practices that made

5:09

me focus on what was good, cause

5:09

other things were challenging.

5:12

And one of the practices was I would

5:12

wake up in the morning and I would

5:15

say, oh my gosh, I love my life. I love my life.

5:18

Thank you, thank you, thank you. So I kind of made it a habit.

5:21

And that was a specific season when

5:21

I needed that tool, and I don't

5:25

remember where I got it, but that's

5:25

how I knew I was back because it has

5:30

stuck with me all of these years. And one morning I woke up.

5:35

And I, said it and I'm like, oh

5:35

my gosh, I've come out the other

5:38

side of this really dark journey.

5:42

so I do that in the morning. I wake up and I'm like, I love my life.

5:46

I'm so happy. I, all of those things and it's, it

5:46

comes naturally cuz I've been doing it

5:50

for so long, but I hadn't recognized

5:50

in the past and I'm sure there have

5:54

been seasons when I haven't done it. Never had it been so stark.

5:57

Hmm. That it had returned and I

5:58

thought, oh my gosh, when was

6:01

the last time I, I said that? Mm-hmm. As I was coming outta that, I had a

6:03

conversation with a friend who's a coach

6:06

and, I was talking about all the things

6:06

I should be doing and, and she said, how

6:10

about just for a little while, you ask

6:10

in the morning, what would I love to do?

6:15

Instead of this other question you've

6:15

been asking yourself, well, what I love

6:18

to do today, and by the way, that's

6:18

such a luxury and a privilege, Mm-hmm.

6:22

To even be able to ask that question,

6:22

But I am in a stage of my life where

6:27

my responsibilities are different. I'm older.

6:29

I don't have any kids. I work for myself, although I

6:31

don't always have a ton of work.

6:34

Right. So that, that can be scary, mm-hmm. Um, so I thought, oh yeah, let

6:36

me try that for a little bit.

6:38

you know what I ended up doing? I ended up starting that

6:40

podcast from interviews.

6:43

I had been collecting and recording

6:43

for a couple of years, but that

6:46

had sat on my computer because. I had been choosing something different.

6:51

So when she said that, I thought,

6:51

what is something I would love

6:54

to do that I haven't been doing? And it was to turn those

6:55

interviews into a podcast.

6:59

And so now all of that has contributed

6:59

a ton of joy because the learning, the

7:05

doing, being able to show up that way

7:05

has been so fun and has been such an

7:09

antidote and such a treatment for what

7:09

could be a really distressing time.

7:14

Mm-hmm. That question is really powerful.

7:17

I like that question because it

7:17

makes you conscious of what you

7:21

are going to choose for the day. You could just make that decision

7:23

right there at the beginning of the

7:27

day, whether it is starting a podcast

7:27

or whatever it is, you know, for

7:31

that day to get you into that space.

7:33

That's just so amazing.

7:35

there are some days when I

7:35

say, what would you love to do today?

7:39

And I think, well, I'm really

7:39

gonna love going to the dump the

7:42

things you have to do, right? Yeah. I'm going to love.

7:45

Going to the dmv. Right. because there are things you have to do.

7:48

Then when I go to the dump I am definitely

7:48

thinking, like doing this with joy,

7:52

almost like making fun of myself. And it does kind make it better.

7:56

You're always gonna have the chores

7:56

and the things you have to do, you

8:00

may as well inject those with joy too.

8:02

I have a habit of worrying about

8:02

where money's gonna come from and

8:06

where work is gonna come from. Cause I was a single

8:07

mom and I'd been the. Sole provider for so long, and a little

8:09

bit of internalized messaging that it

8:15

wasn't responsible to do something fun

8:15

like that, that I wanted for myself.

8:19

you're right. Just asking the question.

8:21

opens it up so that you can consider,

8:21

okay, well I'm making these choices

8:25

today and why, because I wanna keep my

8:25

family together, or because I wanna stay

8:28

on track with whatever, or because you

8:28

know, it's really important for me to get

8:31

my stupid mental health walk, Whatever. You still get to make the choices, you

8:33

still get to live the regular life.

8:36

But there's something about the question. I'm so grateful for her that she

8:37

introduced that into my life because it.

8:42

Has been super helpful. If you asked yourself that question

8:43

this morning, what were you thinking?

8:47

What would I love to do

8:47

today on a beautiful weekend?

8:49

Today?

8:50

Initially I would say I

8:50

get to go outside and hike up a

8:54

mountain or go hiking with my dog. However, with this on my mind,

8:55

I've been so excited about having

8:59

this conversation with you. I would say I gotta do

9:01

a podcast interview,

9:04

yeah, it is exciting.

9:06

You know, we have two choices

9:06

on how we feel and handle things really.

9:10

Like we could just go do

9:10

those things miserably.

9:13

Be like, oh gosh, I have to go to the dump. What a waste of time.

9:16

I hate going there. It's stinky, Or we could

9:17

do it in that realm.

9:20

Hey, I gotta go to the

9:20

dump and get rid of stuff.

9:23

again, it's that conscious shift

9:23

of how am I gonna shift a pattern.

9:27

My husband and I talk a lot about

9:27

this, and I don't know if you've heard

9:30

about this in, in any of our episodes,

9:30

but we talk about pattern shifting.

9:34

Yes. So when

9:35

you are in this normal pattern

9:35

of doing something and you're realizing,

9:39

oh gosh, it's creating this anger,

9:39

or this worry, or this frustration,

9:44

how can I go back and choose it

9:44

differently and do it differently?

9:48

For instance, oh gosh, I gotta go to the

9:48

dump and I have to run all these errands.

9:52

I have to clean my house, versus I'm

9:52

gonna put some music on and I'm gonna

9:57

have this beautifully cleaned house. You know, you just do things

9:59

very differently and you shift that pattern a bit.

10:02

I think sometimes we walk around as. In a sense, robots just,

10:04

we just kind of do it.

10:06

We don't think about things, but when

10:06

you wanna be in joy and create more

10:11

joy, we have to soul search a little

10:11

bit what are the patterns I do that

10:16

continue to make me angry, what can I

10:16

shift and how can I do it differently

10:21

so that I can be more joyful and

10:21

happy during whatever I'm doing?

10:26

Yeah. what you said is interesting about

10:26

patterns because how many of the

10:30

patterns are just programming

10:30

and ideas we've gotten somewhere

10:33

else that something isn't fun. I think some of it's commercials, right?

10:37

Commercials like, oh, cuz everything

10:37

has to, to sell you something,

10:40

you've gotta have a problem. So they make everything

10:41

seem like it's painful.

10:44

Mm-hmm. On some level. Oh, I have to go to the grocery store.

10:47

Oh, isn't the worst chore.

10:49

. But you know what? I kinda like the grocery store. Yeah.

10:51

For some reason it's really fun for me. Grocery shopping is fun for me, and

10:53

it sounds crazy, but is it crazy?

10:57

Or are we just getting the message

10:57

that grocery shopping sucks?

11:00

Right? Because grocery shopping is like this

11:00

giant building full of fruits and

11:04

vegetables and all of these things

11:04

and people and crazy things happen

11:08

in the aisles and colorful packaging

11:08

and ideas in case you don't know what

11:12

you wanna eat this week or, whatever. Or new products.

11:15

it actually is an interesting thing to do.

11:17

oh, well if you do it every week, oh, do

11:17

it for five kids, All of those things.

11:21

Okay, maybe. Maybe that really is how you feel and

11:22

what your valid feeling was and came from

11:27

within, and you generated it yourself

11:27

because that was your experience.

11:31

But I challenge people to go look back

11:31

and say, okay, when did you first decide

11:35

that grocery shopping was terrible? mine was different.

11:38

It's more like family messaging, But

11:38

when did I decide that I needed to

11:42

struggle and not do things I loved?

11:44

When did I decide that

11:44

I couldn't do things?

11:47

That were in my area of interest

11:47

and then make that decision and

11:51

just live it as if it was the case. Mm-hmm.

11:53

some of those patterns aren't even ours.

11:55

So I'm actually going to use that,

11:55

examining the pattern and going back

11:59

the next time I find myself complaining

11:59

about something that I have to do, the

12:03

next time I'm in the morning, like I am

12:03

gonna love going to the gynecologist.

12:08

Right. And I'm gonna say, okay, wait a second.

12:12

Objectively. What is bad about it is that you

12:13

get to stop by Starbucks on the way.

12:16

Is it that it's next to this

12:16

place that you like that has

12:19

those weird candy caramel things? Which part of the going to

12:21

the gynecologist do you hate?

12:24

Is it that. They have a really easy parking lot,

12:24

or is it that you like your doctor?

12:28

Mm-hmm. Or is it that you are doing something

12:28

and being responsible for your health?

12:32

Is it that one thing in your

12:32

life that's completely focused

12:35

on you and is kind of self-care? Like which part of it do you hate?

12:39

Martha? Mm-hmm. And I could come back and say, I

12:40

really don't like the speculum.

12:42

Right. And then I can be honest

12:42

about what sucks about it.

12:45

And it's the one thing. Right with

12:46

that. And then when you think about all the

12:46

other things that are great about it.

12:50

Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, like you said, all those

12:52

external things, like I never get

12:52

that chocolate unless I'm going there.

12:56

Right? And so if I have an extra visit, let's

12:57

say like this year I had an extra visit.

13:00

I had to go back for something and I thought, Ooh. I can now chocolate again this year.

13:04

Yeah, right. Exactly. It's those external pieces or factors

13:05

which we don't pay attention to often.

13:11

It's just, oh, I gotta do this. And that you say that every

13:12

Saturday night, I'm meal

13:16

planning for the week and I'm. Always thinking, oh my gosh,

13:18

I'm so tired of meal planning.

13:21

I can't stand this. Like it's, I hate it

13:23

cuz I'm so tired of it.

13:25

Yeah. but I have to think of all those

13:25

other things you know, there's

13:28

so many great things about it.

13:30

it comes back to being grateful too. I get to do this, I get to

13:32

provide great meals for my family.

13:35

I get to cook them. And sometimes my children

13:36

have planned some meals and

13:39

that actually is really fun. I'll be like, I wanna pick

13:41

a meal and I'm gonna cook it. And incorporating that a little bit more.

13:45

Yeah. And then the message you give your

13:45

kids is, Hey, meal planning is fun.

13:48

Yeah, exactly. And then maybe, maybe, maybe not.

13:52

Because there are companies out

13:52

there that want you to think

13:55

that meal planning is hard. So they'll be getting messaging

13:56

about, oh, sick of meal planning.

14:00

But maybe that'll be something they

14:00

like to do and their partner will.

14:04

Be like, are you kidding me? Like, no, come on. It's, we're gonna sit on a meal plan.

14:07

It's so fun. Yeah. And they'll be bringing

14:08

joy to someone else.

14:10

These little things that can just

14:10

bring joy, which we don't think about.

14:14

I wanna really quickly circle back to

14:16

that time in your life where you were not,

14:16

you didn't say pretending to be enjoy, but

14:21

you had all this heartbreak and so forth

14:21

going on and it's really interesting.

14:25

See, there's a reason why we connected

14:25

because years ago when I started this

14:29

whole process, I was working with a

14:29

coach and I had to ask people who were

14:32

really close to me, specific questions.

14:35

One of them was my best friend

14:35

who I grew up with, and.

14:37

She had gone through, this whole

14:37

period of my life when my dad got

14:40

sick with a l s and I lost him. And , the question she asked was,

14:42

I can't remember the question I

14:46

asked her, but she came back and

14:46

said, I wonder if you actually let

14:51

yourself feel sad when you're sad. And it was really powerful.

14:55

It really opened up my eyes because I

14:55

also have always been a very happy person.

15:00

Just as a kid smiled all the time and

15:00

anytime anything was bothering me, I would

15:05

just kind of push it aside and I would

15:05

do life and I would live and be happy.

15:11

And then what I realized after all this

15:11

work, I was masking that joy, right?

15:16

Even though I thought I was being

15:16

joyful and I was feeling joyful, I

15:19

truly wasn't internally feeling it. And you had mentioned that and I thought

15:21

that was a really interesting connection.

15:25

And you had said, you know, when

15:25

you find yourself seeing then

15:28

you know now that you're enjoy. But what other kinds of things do you

15:30

feel when you know you're truly enjoy?

15:35

Oh gosh. Cause the singing is a big one

15:36

and dancing around a little bit.

15:40

And of course the waking up in

15:40

the morning, like, I love my life.

15:43

Oh my gosh, thank you. Which is such a funny habit I was

15:44

working on these very deliberate.

15:47

Practices and then that one just

15:47

stuck and it just makes me laugh

15:51

cuz it's totally unconscious now. It's before I'm even fully awake.

15:54

I'm saying it in my head something

15:54

that happens spontaneously.

15:58

I'm trying to think of other ways

15:58

that I know, because like you,

16:03

I have always been very good at.

16:05

Sticking to my persona of

16:05

being the joyful, happy person.

16:10

there are definitely times, and that

16:10

was one of them, instead of feeling

16:13

it and letting myself feel it, I was.

16:16

Keeping up my energy and doing all the

16:16

things that bring joy to try to bring

16:21

it back, and then not going through it.

16:23

And I had to actually stop in that

16:23

situation and let it wash over me.

16:27

And it was hard, right? Mm-hmm. It was, I had been resisting

16:28

it for so long that I, I think

16:31

I probably stretched it out. It probably didn't have to be so long.

16:34

Process, but I had been

16:34

avoiding it, like you described.

16:39

was pushing it aside and, when

16:39

I actually let it happen, it was

16:43

really, Dark and really heavy, and

16:43

then it kind of passed through.

16:48

Like there's only one way through it. And I knew that intellectually,

16:49

but I was resisting.

16:52

if someone had asked me socially,

16:52

I would've said, oh no, I'm great.

16:55

Everything's great. No, I'm, I'm happy. Yeah.

16:58

listen. No, it's good. It's good. I would've given that

16:59

answer at the same time.

17:03

That it wasn't good. I wasn't good.

17:05

and then when I let it happen, people

17:05

just didn't really see much of

17:09

me When I was actually doing it. I just went inward and, did it.

17:12

And, thank God, cause

17:12

you, you have to feel it.

17:15

But, I'm trying to think of besides those

17:15

things, what my little indicators are.

17:19

I mean there, there are little

17:19

things like I get into flow.

17:22

you know what, why I'm having

17:22

trouble with this, the indicators

17:26

also sometimes the source.

17:28

Hmm. Or can be used as practices

17:29

to get back in there.

17:32

So for instance, when I'm working and in

17:32

flow, where I look up and go, my gosh,

17:37

it's been how many hours, but not in

17:37

the, oh my gosh, I've been working so

17:40

much, but in the, oh, when I got lost

17:40

and I did this stuff and it was awesome.

17:44

Mm-hmm. That is both an indicator and something

17:44

that creates joy because when I've

17:49

had those flow moments, Afterwards,

17:49

I'm totally energized instead of being

17:53

exhausted after 10 hours of working, or

17:53

like I told you, I was working on that

17:56

project yesterday learning a new thing

17:56

and I thought oh, I spent the whole day.

18:01

But in reality, I spent the whole

18:01

day because I wasn't even paying

18:04

attention time cause I was learning

18:04

and it was this new experience.

18:07

so I think the other indicators that I

18:07

find myself in flow more, which makes

18:12

me think that when I'm experiencing

18:12

joy, I allow myself to be in flow more.

18:16

Instead of stopping myself and saying,

18:16

no, you have to do this and this and this.

18:21

and give myself reasons why I can't get

18:21

into that great book or I can't waste

18:26

time, With quotes on learning something

18:26

new or doing something that takes me

18:30

five hours and would take someone else

18:30

one hour, I'm not enjoy, I am judging

18:35

all those things all the time as whether

18:35

or not they're worthy activities.

18:39

Mm-hmm. Do I have time And when I'm in Joy,

18:40

I do have time to read the book.

18:43

I do have time to learn a new skill. So those are also indicators for me

18:45

when I'm not shaming myself as much.

18:49

I don't think we realize,

18:49

that we might be in that state of

18:52

joy tapping into those feelings

18:52

and what's happening is important.

18:56

So we know.

18:56

And I had to think about it. You just observed me discovering it.

19:00

That was not something I knew to tell

19:00

you, and I was thinking, what else is it?

19:05

Now I'm aware of that. I wasn't aware before this.

19:07

So thank you. Yeah, thank you for this interview.

19:10

Now I'll notice it next time. Or I'll notice when I am not allowing

19:11

myself To do something like that

19:16

and say, okay, what's going on here? that you're not allowing

19:18

yourself to take that time.

19:21

Yeah. I think you'll notice on

19:22

both

19:22

ends. Yeah, for sure. How do you share your

19:23

passion for joy with others?

19:27

is very specific right now, but in

19:27

general, I try to be an uplifting person.

19:31

It's definitely with humor. I feel like I've been pretty serious

19:33

on this interview, but in general,

19:37

I'm kind of irreverent I like to

19:37

make people laugh especially, it's

19:40

probably a coping mechanism when things

19:40

are tense I'm going to try to break

19:44

the tension with humor in some way.

19:46

My current project. Is it cool if I talk about it?

19:49

Yes, please. So my current project is something that

19:50

kind of helped me in that transition from

19:54

being depressed unhappy and sad about

19:54

that situation as I was coming out of it.

19:59

this is, again, back to that

19:59

thing where the practice can

20:02

actually bring the joy, right? Mm-hmm. I don't know if it's a chicken

20:04

or the egg, but as I came out of

20:06

it, I had picked up a project that

20:06

I'd been wanting to do forever,

20:10

but I hadn't allowed myself to do. a podcast about, Perimenopause

20:12

and being a woman in midlife and

20:16

all of these things we go through. So I have a podcast called My.

20:20

Aloof Vagina, it was named because

20:20

that was the first recognizable

20:24

symptom I had Impending menopause

20:24

and I did not know it was a symptom.

20:29

Thank goodness it happened because being

20:29

afraid that my sex life was over forever.

20:34

then I'd somehow missed it Mm-hmm. That, scared me enough.

20:37

This threat that maybe, maybe my Vagina

20:37

wasn't working anymore, was enough for

20:42

me to do the research to figure out

20:42

that I actually was in perimenopause.

20:46

That there is an entire constellation

20:46

of symptoms that we are not told about

20:51

and some are just being discovered

20:51

because, you know, the medical community

20:55

hasn't paid a lot of attention. To the attributes of the change.

20:59

Because they kind of thought, well, you're

20:59

a grandma now, It doesn't really matter.

21:02

Just not a lot of interest in

21:02

studying it and not a lot of

21:05

interest in fixing things for us. we kind of, in previous generations,

21:07

were expected to just go.

21:11

be quiet about it cuz ew, that's gross.

21:13

Or be quiet about it because, mm-hmm. Well, everyone goes through it and

21:15

I felt, upsets not the right word.

21:20

Angry might be the word, like a little bit

21:20

angry, low level anger, nothing crazy, but

21:25

a little angry that I could get to that

21:25

point back and realize that even though

21:29

I was seeing doctors, and even though I'm

21:29

a pretty open person an educated person,

21:34

that I could have gone that long without.

21:36

Knowing that I was going through this

21:36

process and that there were things I could

21:40

do to mitigate some of the characteristics

21:40

and the traits of that process.

21:45

So I, went on a research jag and then

21:45

started sharing it with my friends.

21:50

But because of who I am, I shared with

21:50

my friends in a funny way, Because some

21:54

of the stuff is so alarming, so I was

21:54

recording for my friends and sending

21:57

emails and telling them, and ultimately

21:57

that turned into a podcast for other

22:02

women because the more people who heard

22:02

about it, then I'd get messages from

22:05

people saying, Hey, can you send her

22:05

that thing about clitoral atrophy?

22:08

And I would say, okay, cause that

22:08

was the thing that scared us.

22:11

All No one was alarmed when I talked

22:11

about wrinkly necks or collagen, or.

22:16

making sure you're getting the right micronutrients. No one freaked out when I talked about

22:17

hot flashes or crepey skin on your legs.

22:22

But the minute that we knew about

22:22

clitoral atrophy, my friends freaked

22:27

out because no one had mentioned it.

22:29

When I went looking, when I suddenly

22:29

thought, oh my gosh, I'm in this.

22:31

And I, like I do anything

22:31

else, I was research, research,

22:34

subscribing, getting apps, listening

22:34

to podcasts, reading articles.

22:38

So much of the messaging was

22:38

couched to hit your pain point

22:42

so they could sell you something. Mm-hmm.

22:45

And I found myself getting

22:45

more and more sad about, Oh no.

22:49

You know, cuz it could be a very sad

22:49

stage for a single woman, Who's still

22:53

out there trying to date this is me. Mm-hmm. And, I'm all alone, And I

22:55

thought, you know what, no.

22:58

this is a season where

22:58

I am able to choose joy.

23:01

I am able to choose my activities.

23:03

I'm wiser. I have the luxury of going to the grocery

23:05

store and and buying bougie stuff cause

23:09

that's for one, I have the luxury of

23:09

starting a crazy project where I talk

23:14

about my private things in public, Mm-hmm.

23:17

I have the luxury of all of these things,

23:17

and a lot of it is because I'm over 50.

23:22

A lot of it's because

23:22

I'm over 50 and single.

23:24

Mm. I felt like I could look at the

23:25

funny side and the positive side.

23:28

At the same time acknowledging the

23:28

realities and maybe help other people.

23:33

Get to have that journey through this

23:33

instead of the, Hmm, what can I sell you?

23:37

Mm-hmm. Right. Or, oh, it's terrible.

23:39

The things that happen are not amazing. Some of them are just, you're like, what?

23:43

it's ludicrous, but I don't believe

23:43

it has to be miserable all the time.

23:49

I think the messaging we're

23:49

getting from each other is,

23:52

oh, you're going through that. Oh, and misery loves company.

23:56

And you know, the pain body,

23:56

Eckhart Tolle's pain body.

23:58

The pain body is super powerful. if I got a lot of attention for the fact

24:00

that fill in the blank while I was having

24:05

certain afflictions, then there's a lot of

24:05

incentive for me to really get attached to

24:09

that affliction and make that my identity. Mm-hmm.

24:11

And I thought if I'm gonna make perimenopause my identity, it's gonna be fun.

24:16

So, so that's what I did. So my identity is, that

24:18

in that part of my life.

24:21

So that is the practice, and

24:21

that's why I have a lot of joy

24:24

right now without that podcast. I wouldn't be meeting people like you.

24:27

Mm-hmm. And it has brought a ton of

24:28

positive energy into my life.

24:31

optimism, a ton of information, great

24:31

practices, I have something I'm creating

24:37

every day, which is a huge joy creator.

24:41

Being in creation, whether it's pottery or

24:41

macrame you know, whatever the thing is.

24:45

there's something that is unleashed

24:45

when you allow yourself to do that.

24:48

And it can be hard to find something

24:48

to make in our modern life with

24:52

all the things we have going on. But when you're making, you are

24:53

being a creator, you're kind

24:56

of generating and contributing. Even if it's just in your own house.

25:00

That is a source of joy. Mm-hmm. To be able to create.

25:02

So what I'm creating is this show where

25:02

I wanna help women find out about stuff

25:08

in a way that's not super medical,

25:08

that's not super earnest or distressing,

25:12

fun, but also tips them off because

25:12

it's the ignorance that leads us to.

25:18

Either get too far down the path

25:18

without fixing things with diet,

25:21

exercise, or what have you, or

25:21

medical treatment and the shame.

25:25

if I can make it so that you can get

25:25

the information and it's not something

25:28

to be embarrassed about, I'll embarrass

25:28

myself for all of us and talk about

25:33

these things, then I feel like I'm

25:33

really helping inject joy into the

25:37

world and into the lives of women

25:37

who are in the same situation I'm in.

25:41

Well, I love that because,

25:41

Now that I am heading in that

25:44

direction, there's definitely

25:44

a lot of negativity about it.

25:47

So I'll hook onto what you

25:47

talk about and I'll listen to

25:51

all of your episodes about it.

25:54

I don't wanna live the next however

25:54

many years my life miserable.

25:57

No. Um, while I go through that whole process

25:58

of menopause, cuz to me it's not worth it.

26:01

So, So this

26:02

is the other thing about the consolation of symptoms. I now liken it to a giant playlist.

26:07

And I don't like to call 'em symptoms. I like to call 'em traits and attributes

26:08

because some of them are just your body

26:11

changing, It needs support and care,

26:11

but it's not necessarily an illness.

26:15

The playlist of the potential

26:15

quote, symptoms, attributes, traits.

26:20

Is shockingly massive. That's why I didn't know what it was.

26:23

That's why so many women don't know. I asked them like, what's

26:25

your canary in the coal mine?

26:27

is the thing that happened that you

26:27

thought, oh my gosh, I'm in this.

26:30

It's so infrequently

26:30

the things you expected.

26:32

your period stopping or hot

26:32

flashes or other things.

26:35

For a lot of people, it's something else. and then later they realize

26:37

what it is and they look back.

26:39

I talk about that because the

26:39

playlist is so large and we

26:42

all get a different shuffle. I might get something that you

26:44

don't get, but we might have

26:47

a couple that are the same. Mm-hmm. And then I might get in a

26:48

different sequence than you do.

26:51

And that I think is what throws

26:51

women off and why they don't know

26:54

and why so much of the suffering

26:54

is with not knowing what to expect.

26:58

And so my whole goal is to talk

26:58

about these crazy things and

27:01

help people know what to expect. And then also talk about things that

27:03

people are distressed about that are

27:05

happening, like incontinence, which

27:05

is common, for moms in their fifties.

27:10

Mm-hmm. And younger. And they don't talk

27:11

about it cuz it's such a. Old lady marketed two thing

27:12

like the next stop is depends.

27:16

there's a lot in between peeing

27:16

when you sneeze or laugh or jump

27:19

on a trampoline and depends. Depends and, and there are

27:21

things that can help you.

27:24

But if you think, oh my gosh,

27:24

I'm gonna need the pens.

27:26

Then you might just hide your

27:26

problem and not get treatment.

27:29

So I thought, well, we'll just laugh about it.

27:31

I love that. That's so great.

27:33

Well, I look forward to listening

27:33

to many more of your episodes.

27:37

Thank you. And laughing. I think it'll hopefully open the

27:39

door for other women and allow them

27:43

to have a different experience.

27:46

Obviously not different what the

27:46

body produces, but just their

27:48

mind and what they think about

27:48

it and how they deal with it.

27:52

Thank you. And I, I love your show. I have to tell you that I, I have not

27:54

read your book yet, but I think the

27:58

service you're providing, I know that

27:58

your focus on this came out of grief

28:03

and this is a gift you're giving people. what's beautiful about your show is

28:05

that you're not only focusing, just

28:08

like we talked about how your friends

28:08

said and like how I act and how you act.

28:12

You're not just focusing on the. Happy, happy, joy, joy, Pollyanna version.

28:17

You're, talking about the real life

28:17

things that you need to do to maintain

28:22

joy and happiness and harmony in a

28:22

family as well, in places You can't just

28:28

cover it up and you can't just ignore

28:28

it and just be happy to get to join.

28:33

To sustain joy and maintain joy,

28:33

you do really need to be able to

28:37

navigate the realities of life. Mm-hmm.

28:40

Have tools. so I love what you're doing.

28:42

Thank you so much for that feedback. I appreciate it.

28:45

This conversation was really enlightening

28:45

for me, so I really appreciate your

28:49

time. Thank you. I enlightened myself, I mean, you

28:50

enlightened me, but also we processed

28:54

things that I hadn't even thought

28:54

about before, so I'm gonna walk away

28:56

with new awareness about, My own self

28:56

and the way I do things, so thank you.

29:01

Good.

29:02

Thank you so much. I'm gonna go write that question down

29:04

too when we're finished, Thanks, Martha.

29:07

Oh, thank you.

29:08

Thank you for listening. Until next time.

29:10

Take care of yourself and

29:10

take care of your vagina.

29:15

If you enjoyed this episode

29:15

please share it with a friend

29:18

you think would enjoy it, too.