0:05

We're back. Welcome

0:07

to season four of the Pourso

0:10

Podcastan.

0:12

Benitos, Ifian Benidas Yestamoso.

0:15

We're so excited. We've been hard

0:17

at work with our heads down, producing really

0:20

interesting episodes that will

0:22

continue to share the untold

0:24

stories and unheard voices that

0:26

make up our Latino history and

0:29

our culture. And as we were

0:31

thinking about what we wanted to talk

0:33

about, we kept coming back to one

0:36

topic in particular, money in and.

0:39

That topic is the hot topic

0:41

of beauty standards. Maybe it's

0:43

not an avert conversation like, oh, let's

0:45

talk about beauty standards, but it's

0:47

always there. It's always the subtext

0:50

in every conversation around family

0:52

gatherings. How you look, how you show

0:54

up, what you're wearing, how you're

0:56

dressing, are you gaining weight losing

0:58

weight? Like, there's a lot of emphasis

1:00

in beauty in our Latino community.

1:03

And there's just so much to say, right Manivell.

1:05

I mean, when we were starting to brainstorm

1:07

the episodes for this seasons, fam

1:10

this conversation on Latina beauty

1:12

standards just came up naturally, and we kept talking

1:15

and talking and sharing our own experiences,

1:17

and so we're like, of course we have to dig deeper

1:19

into this topic on the podcast.

1:22

So what you are about to hear is a two

1:25

part series where we unpack

1:27

not only the impacts that these beauty

1:30

standards have on our Latinia,

1:32

but really interrogating many well, where do these

1:34

beauty standards even come from? We have so

1:36

much to cover on this episode, so let's

1:39

jump right into it.

1:41

You're listening to the Pulsa podcast, We'll

1:43

be right back, and

1:46

this like a sencija.

1:48

I'd rather be dead than caught not looking

1:50

my best. So many of us have

1:52

grown up listening to our moms, our grandma's,

1:55

our theas saying that same

1:58

phrase. To be Latina is to have some

2:00

expectation, either from your family or from

2:02

the rest of the world, that beauty matters.

2:06

What exactly is beautiful to a Latina?

2:09

Voluptuous yet thin, tan

2:12

skin but no darker than

2:14

caramel hair is

2:16

long, Yeah, definitely long,

2:19

a mix of pursuing thinness while also

2:21

appreciating the Kirby body type, and

2:23

of being white but never too white.

2:26

We weren't just born with this idea of Latina

2:28

beauty, though we were socialized

2:30

to believe it. To help us unpack how

2:33

these conflicting standards of beauty

2:35

came to be. We invited doctor Mota

2:37

to the Pulsa podcast.

2:40

My name is Christina mora In, an Associate

2:43

professor of sociology and Chican

2:45

Latino Studies at UC Berkeley.

2:48

So the first question for you, doctor Morta, would it be

2:51

how would you even define Latina beauty standards?

2:54

When I think about Latina beauty, I

2:56

think of there's always a relationship

2:58

to others. Beauty is

3:00

defined in relation often in the United States

3:03

to white standards of beauty, especially,

3:05

but also Black standards of beauty or non

3:08

Latino Black standards of beauty, and

3:10

other forms of beauty that we see worldwide.

3:12

And so I think the Latino

3:15

style is always an interplay between

3:18

all of these four. Right. You know,

3:20

on the one hand, you have this historical

3:22

legacy of colonialism

3:24

in the Americas, right that prioritizes

3:27

European descent. And at the bottom of the hierarchy

3:30

we generally have some mix of indigenous

3:32

and African ancestry.

3:34

So to reach the Latina beauty standard

3:36

is essentially a constant, exhausting

3:39

negotiation between so many different

3:41

factors. But at the end of the

3:43

day, the winning narrative seems to be that

3:45

the closer we are to being white, the

3:47

better. All you have to do is

3:50

turn on la novelas on Telemundo and Unission

3:52

and you'll know exactly what I'm talking about.

3:55

Straighter hair, lighter skin, lighter eyes.

3:58

That's mostly what we see coming out of Mexican

4:00

Colombia and Venezuela and Peruvian and

4:02

other Latin American media that we consume

4:05

here in the US. Few

4:07

of Los Bressonais are indigenous or black,

4:09

and the ones who are definitely don't

4:12

get the guy or the big job. At the end, they're

4:15

relegated to the roles of criminals

4:17

or the help. Like doctor mort said,

4:19

anything not white is at the bottom

4:22

of the beauty hierarchy. She

4:24

goes on to explain that there's another topic

4:26

at play here when.

4:28

We're talking about sort of US Latino

4:30

understandings, is there's a way in which sort

4:32

of the ideas of Latin America filter into

4:35

the way we live our lives here. And

4:37

there's also, at the same time

4:40

a sense of resistance, a sense of wanting

4:42

to define ourselves on our own terms,

4:44

right, And so historically you've

4:47

seen things like a resistance to

4:49

sort of speaking English the exact

4:51

same way, wear in your hair the exact

4:54

same way as a quote unquote white girls

4:57

wanting to exalt What is

4:59

a Chicano culture, Albricoa

5:01

culture, different forms

5:03

of sort of subcultural resistance.

5:06

What are some of those esthetic traits

5:09

that you think the Hispanic or Latin

5:11

or Chicano label in the US

5:14

highlights, and what are some of those

5:16

traits that those same labels

5:18

of how we see ourselves in the US context

5:20

actually erase.

5:23

I think it looks differently depending on where

5:25

you're looking at. So if I'm looking at

5:28

La. In the nineteen eighties, resistance

5:31

was bigger. Hair resistance was

5:33

bigger. Ear rings. Resistance

5:36

was a mode of dress with specific

5:38

nikes and press shirts and

5:41

firmly creaspants or things like

5:43

that. If I think about it now, La,

5:46

it's a lot about makeup that doesn't look like why

5:48

girl makeup. Often it's a lot about

5:50

embracing thicker curves

5:52

now much more than what you saw

5:55

in sort of the nineties, and stuff like that.

5:57

And then you've got you know, it varies

5:59

by groups and education. Amongst

6:02

some groups that are more highly educated,

6:05

you find a much more embracing of Indigenous

6:08

ideas right, Indigenous patterns

6:10

on clothing, Indigenous

6:12

forms of naming your children, going

6:14

back to learning, you know, indigenous practices

6:17

and exalting it. So I think these practices

6:20

look different, and they're always in tension

6:22

with like the way mainstream media wants

6:24

to see who Latinos are and the ways it

6:26

wants to box us in on how we can be

6:28

beautiful. As much as we can

6:31

say that the creased pants

6:33

and the Chris White T shirts of the nineteen

6:35

eighty cholo style or lowriter style,

6:38

that was a true, you know esthetic,

6:41

you know, many others saw that as a threat.

6:43

Many others saw that as a danger. Many

6:45

others saw that as criminalization.

6:48

And so I think beauty is always in conversation

6:52

with this as well.

6:57

Another scholar who spends her time thinking

6:59

about our identay is doctor lodin

7:01

I Gotta Sia. She's an associate professor

7:03

of sociology and Latin American and

7:06

Latino Studies at the University of

7:08

Illinois at Chicago.

7:10

Even when we think about beauty standards, it's

7:12

not only like in terms of how

7:15

it's how it's read on the body, and

7:17

how we also have agency and

7:19

how we express that, but I also think

7:21

it's also in these other ways

7:24

that get mapped out and the way we speak.

7:26

Like how much we use our hands.

7:28

You know, there is resistance to that, but

7:30

it doesn't come easy, right And I do think

7:33

who sort of presented as the epitome

7:35

of Latina beauty right can shift.

7:37

But I know that one of those tensions that consistently

7:40

seems to come up quite a bit, and then rightfully

7:42

so, is especially the way sort of blackness

7:44

has been written out or if it's

7:47

coming in the way it's being commodified

7:49

as a way to kind of think about what

7:51

beauty looks like. So I think Latinas

7:54

especially you've also been kind of negotiating this way

7:56

of thinking about how do we express ourselves

7:58

in a way that feels authentic to us?

8:01

Right while we're sort of navigating all these messages about

8:03

we're supposed to look like and be like.

8:05

And let's not forget that matismo has played

8:07

a role in defining Latina beauty standards

8:09

as well.

8:10

When we think about notions of femininity,

8:12

when we think about notions of masculinity, I

8:15

do think that they are kind

8:17

of in some way speaking to one another. And we know obviously

8:19

that it's much more now expansive than this gender

8:21

binary of femininity masculinity or

8:23

men and women. So I do think that on

8:25

the one hand, right people say that one way

8:27

of understanding how women may be doing

8:30

femininities in relation to masculinity,

8:33

and the other thing is we're also doing our

8:35

sense of femininities in relation

8:37

to other women. When we think about

8:40

femininities ideas about that, we're

8:42

also doing it for each other, for like our mothers,

8:44

for our sisters, for our friends, the other

8:47

Latinas, or the other women that we're going to

8:49

be encountering with.

8:52

That's interesting to explore that concept

8:55

of dressing for each other. I definitely

8:57

feel Latina women develop our beauty

8:59

standards in an intergenerational way.

9:02

Many of us learn about beauty from our moms

9:04

at a young age. The love for beauty

9:06

is passed down from generation to generation.

9:09

In fact, according to Nielsen, sixty

9:11

six percent of Latinas say that they were

9:13

taught at an early age that maintaining their

9:15

appearance is important. Our

9:18

mothers and grandmothers taught so many of

9:20

us to take time with our self care and

9:22

to adorn ourselves like we

9:24

matter. It was like their way of

9:27

passing on the idea that we're worth

9:29

it. My grandmother, for example,

9:31

didn't wear pants until she was in her fifties,

9:34

and every other week she had her personal

9:36

cosmetologist come to her house to

9:38

try the latest new trend in anti aging

9:41

techniques on her face. My mom

9:43

would blow dry her hair even to go to

9:45

the beach, and was never not in heels.

9:48

I know to many this may seem indulgent, but

9:50

it feels like a badge of honor for so many

9:52

Latinas to take that much time and pride

9:55

and how you look. It's almost as

9:57

if our beauty regimen is one of the most

9:59

powerful things that we have full control over

10:01

in a world where so much is out of our

10:04

control. As I reflected

10:06

on this, I wanted to ask doctor Garcia

10:08

about how she would define Latina beauty standards.

10:12

Oh gosh,

10:14

the first thing that comes to mind to me is

10:17

that there is no one size fits all,

10:19

So that's one way I would define it immediately.

10:21

For me, it's a very diverse.

10:23

I see it as about what feels right to you,

10:25

like in terms of if what you put

10:27

on on your body, if what you put on your face,

10:30

if the kinds of earrings you work, you would decide

10:32

you're going to wear.

10:33

I think if that's coming from a place of authenticity,

10:36

and I think it's also about your right to claim

10:38

space like your body belongs

10:40

there and in the way it is, And it

10:42

doesn't evolve for me anybody shaming.

10:44

To me, Latina beauty standards means that we're uplifting

10:47

one another and honoring and respecting

10:49

what we choose to do with our bodies and

10:51

what we want to present.

10:52

About ourselves as what's beautiful to each

10:55

of us.

10:55

Totally agree. I

10:58

love that you gave a nim

11:00

powering approach

11:02

to our own agency and how

11:04

we define our own beauty standards,

11:06

and that it is a mix of what we've

11:08

been told by our families, what we're seeing in mainstream

11:10

American media, the influence

11:13

in Latin American beauty standards

11:16

with us once we come here in the US, how

11:18

we want to present to other women in our life

11:21

in the male gaze. It is a complex

11:23

negotiation between all of those things

11:25

that create this idea of what is beautiful

11:28

for Latinas and Latinas

11:31

more broadly.

11:32

I definitely don't want to minimize the fact that

11:34

we're living in a society that's still

11:36

by and large dismisses latinas

11:39

the contributions that we bring to the table,

11:42

and often it does fixate on our

11:44

bodies.

11:44

One of my other questions for you was

11:47

about that difference

11:49

between how we view

11:51

ourselves when it comes to beauty and sexuality

11:54

versus how mainstream American society

11:56

sees us or how others see

11:58

us. Can we even define

12:01

our own sense of beauty for ourselves?

12:03

Oh gosh, that's a great question. I'd

12:06

like to think that there is an option for us to do

12:08

that. I do think that it is possible.

12:11

But when I say that we have that choice,

12:13

I always say that those choices are happening

12:15

under a particular set of larger structural

12:18

constraints.

12:19

So, for example, if I'm interviewing

12:21

for a job, I am already thinking about

12:23

the ways they're going to read me, from my race,

12:25

to my gender, to my class. People

12:27

will judge you differently because you're Latina.

12:30

You're never not on display. That's

12:32

why this next stat may not surprise

12:35

you. According to that same Nielsen

12:37

report I cited earlier, only four

12:39

percent of Latinas say they would leave the house

12:41

without any beauty product on versus

12:43

twenty four percent of non Latinas

12:45

I mahininse. So while we conform

12:48

to expectations and put on our best face,

12:50

we're defining our own sense of beauty too.

12:53

Doctor Garcia provided some additional

12:55

insights on that thought.

12:57

But I do think it's possible to

12:59

be a to define that for ourselves.

13:02

But I think it's hard to

13:05

intentionally do that because we have so

13:07

much coming at us about

13:09

what expectations for us, and

13:12

knowing that we're already being racialized

13:14

in so many ways, and that our sexualities

13:16

often perceived as hyper sexual, and

13:18

knowing that there's all these stereotypes about

13:20

Latinas. I think all of that sort of operates

13:23

in a way that makes it hard to do.

13:25

It is hard to do, yet

13:28

as new generations come into their own

13:30

there's big potential for change.

13:33

One of the potentials that I see for this happening.

13:35

And I know people are sometimes critical of social

13:37

media, and I don't really use a lot of social media,

13:39

but that is I believe such

13:41

an important space, especially I think for younger

13:44

generations to

13:46

create content that for them

13:49

is sometimes resisting those messages that they're

13:51

getting. They're creating different kinds of stories,

13:53

stories that need to be told, and so there is

13:56

this potential here and this is such a creative way to

13:58

do it. There's someone out there, for instance, who's we're gonna

14:00

need to hear this very thing that you're talking about because

14:02

no one else is talking about it.

14:05

Caring about beauty is the one stereotype

14:07

that Latinas are embracing, and making our

14:09

own looking beautiful makes

14:12

many Latinas feel like they can take on

14:14

anything, whether it's as a stay

14:16

at home mom or a career woman. High

14:18

beauty standards can be limiting, but our

14:21

own definition of beauty is

14:23

also empowering, and that's exactly

14:25

why we wanted to make this episode. Knowing

14:27

the origins of how we got to define your beauty

14:30

as we do helps us decide what

14:32

standards we want to keep and what outdated

14:34

standards we want to do away with. In

14:37

the next episode of this two part series, we

14:39

take the conversation beyond the theory to

14:41

the practice. Maribed will be exploring

14:44

the positive and problematic ways

14:46

our beauty standards show up for us in the

14:48

world today. You

14:54

can subscribe to the Burso Pod wherever

14:56

you get your podcasts, and if you like what you heard.

14:58

Please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts

15:01

and tell a friend to give us a listen. Have

15:03

questions or story ideas to send our way,

15:06

send us an email to info at Projectfurso

15:09

dot org. This episode was produced

15:11

by me Lizza Aragon, and

15:13

Jackie Noak from the PUSO team. Audio

15:16

engineering by Charlie Gecia and Julian

15:18

Blackmore. Music by Julian

15:20

Blackmore.