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com. I'm just gonna

0:39

say this down. This was awesome to do when it

0:41

wasn't figured out. Now that it's figured

0:43

out, this is certified official

0:45

small boy stuff, and I do not recommend this

0:47

to anybody else. But if you are interested

0:49

in this late ass shit, I'll see you guys.

0:54

I feel like I could ruin the world. I

0:56

know I could be what I want to.

0:59

I put my dog in it, like, a day's all

1:01

one of my homeless travel never looking

1:03

back. What's going on? Who's

1:05

who's the guest, Sean? You wanna give to the intro?

1:07

We got Siegel here. The man who answers

1:10

the question, what would happen if

1:12

Sean was better looking, smarter, harder

1:14

working. So Bloom is here.

1:17

Definitely not smarter. If

1:20

you don't dispute those other too. I'm

1:23

just screwing with you. What's up, guys? Happy

1:25

to be here. How often do you get your haircut?

1:27

Let's start with the most important question. You know,

1:29

Like, every other week at this point, now my wife

1:31

is making fun of me for this because, like, it used to

1:33

be that I'd go once a month, wasn't

1:36

a big deal, and now I'm going like

1:38

every other week because I like to keep it tight and

1:40

she keeps giving me shit because we have a little newborn

1:42

at home and I'm like, oh, I gotta go. I gotta

1:44

go. yeah, it's becoming an issue. As long as

1:46

you don't call it a hair appointment, that's

1:48

the only thing you can't do. If you say I got a hair

1:50

appointment, then you're out as The place just can't

1:52

be called a salon. That's always been my rule. It's

1:54

gonna be barbershop. You seem like you

1:56

seem like a salon guy though. Dude, look

1:58

at you, man. You're wearing like a you got like a weirder

2:01

sweater on look like you're getting ready for Christmas.

2:03

It's like it's eighty five degrees in Austin, Texas

2:05

today. Yeah. So are we at your, like, book

2:07

reading for your for your book right now? Is that what

2:09

do you do? actually does look like you should have a fireplace

2:12

in the background and you're gonna be like reading us nice

2:14

stories and a soothing voice. I'm definitely

2:16

drinking tea right now. So basically,

2:19

like, your bio is pretty easy. You

2:22

were a nobody private equity guy. The

2:24

pandemic hit. The pandemic

2:27

hit. And you're like, I'm gonna be somebody.

2:29

In a matter of two years, you

2:31

got famous on Twitter. What do we what do

2:33

we have nine or eight hundred thousand followers? So you

2:35

got famous on Twitter and basically transformed your

2:37

life all because of Twitter and COVID.

2:40

Is that right? I mean, the

2:43

nobody private equity guide designation is

2:45

not unreasonable. I I think that's

2:47

totally fair. I mean, there's a lot of nobody

2:49

like finance guys that are making bank out there

2:51

though. Right? Like, that would have stung, but now

2:53

you're like, famous and stuff. So now it's okay

2:55

to to laugh at it. I mean, I don't know. Like, do do

2:57

you think it's things like the if you're making pretty good

2:59

money doing something like that? I mean, VPs in private

3:01

equity at this point if you're doing well,

3:04

like, you're making seven figures as a VP in

3:06

private equity. Name four of them.

3:08

Yeah. What about dude,

3:10

I hung out with some PE guys the other day. and

3:13

I didn't know them well enough, but obviously I

3:15

just am back in my head. How

3:17

rich are you? And that's like just what I wanted

3:19

to keep asking. If you own a PE

3:21

Shop, is it safe to assume that you're

3:23

just wealthy? And how much do they actually earn?

3:25

Yeah. I mean, if you are

3:28

if you are a GP, so when one of the principal

3:30

owners of a private equity fund and you've been doing

3:32

it like across multiple funds that have

3:34

performed well over a period of time.

3:36

It's pretty safe to assume that you've got a net

3:38

worth north of fifty million dollars.

3:41

Because, I mean, you just like simple math

3:43

on it. Right? most of those funds are taking like

3:45

one and a half to two percent management fees

3:47

on, you know, if you're running a big fund, five

3:49

hundred million plus, a billion plus if it's like

3:51

a real substantial fund. So there's,

3:54

you know, twenty million plus coming in a year

3:56

on a billion dollar fund. And realistically,

3:58

most of them don't have that many employees, so

4:00

they're not having to actually pay out a ton of that

4:02

in terms of, like, you know, operating costs.

4:04

And then you have Carrie and they're taking, you know,

4:07

fifteen, twenty, twenty five percent of

4:09

profit above their hurdle rate, whatever that is,

4:11

eight percent. So you're like, you know, you're talking

4:13

about if they double the funds, there's

4:15

two hundred million dollars plus of carry

4:17

to go around. And so the principal owners of those

4:20

are taking the lion's share of that, you know,

4:22

of that carry, which is how much. I mean, if there's two

4:24

hundred million in their principal owner owns

4:26

twenty, thirty percent it's a shit

4:28

ton of money. And I

4:30

can't decide if it's jealousy because I'm like,

4:32

you guys are making a lot of money for what feels

4:34

like not a lot of work. Or if

4:36

it's actually I dislike them because I

4:38

feel as though they're just, like, excel

4:40

sheet monkeys and they're, like, not actually creating

4:42

value, what where's the reality? No. I

4:44

mean, they work crazy hard, man. I I don't

4:46

I don't know anyone that is a long

4:48

time GP in private equity that doesn't

4:50

work, you know, seventy plus hours a week

4:52

of like stressful work. mean, it's the type of

4:54

thing Sean would absolutely hate. Like, you

4:56

think about, like, people that care about leverage on

4:58

their time. It's like pretty piss poor leverage and

5:00

it's high stress work because you're pretty

5:02

much a debt on these companies typically. And,

5:04

you know, during a downturn, like, right now. Right?

5:07

It's hugely stressful because you're constantly

5:09

dealing with, like, breaking covenants

5:11

on the debt and having to restructure and, you

5:13

know, like basically what ends up happening is you spend

5:15

eighty percent of your time on the, like,

5:17

couple of losers in the portfolio. And

5:19

the winners, you just, like, kinda get to sit and

5:21

forget it because they're growing. They're you

5:23

know, you're getting, like, a levered up side on them

5:25

because you put, you know, seventy percent leverage

5:27

to buy the company, sixty percent leverage to buy the

5:29

company. And you're just, like, eating off

5:31

those couple of winners. But you're dealing constantly

5:33

with the ones that are losers. So Sean and

5:35

I have our hand in this world

5:37

where, like, we've definitely sell and

5:39

have sold courses and information stuff.

5:41

We also have a podcast And so that that

5:43

that's like this, like, personality world. But

5:45

then we also have built nice sized companies,

5:47

and we will continue to build very

5:50

likely much bigger companies And so we have

5:52

our foot in that world. For you,

5:54

you have your foot in, like, the PE world as

5:56

well as the thing that we're in this information thing.

5:58

Do you think that the information world or whatever we

6:00

call this thing is actually a is it

6:02

an equal revenue or net

6:04

worth driver as like some of the traditional

6:06

company building or PE stuff? Yeah. I

6:08

mean, like, I think you have to think

6:10

about it in terms of, like, your, you know, profit

6:12

potential multiplied by, like, the freedom

6:14

and time freedom that comes with it, right, to,

6:16

like, get to, like, an adjusted profit that

6:18

you can generate from something. Doing

6:20

it in p and, like, making fifty million

6:23

dollars in p from a time adjusted

6:25

standpoint is a is a pretty grindy

6:27

way to go do it. It's like high certainty. If

6:29

you're just on if you're at a good fund and

6:31

you're rolling with a good fund, then you're, like, gonna be

6:33

a partner there and you're gonna get more and more carry

6:35

across you know, bigger and bigger funds. It's

6:37

a pretty low beta way

6:40

to go and generate that type

6:42

of, you know, that type of network. But you're

6:44

gonna be working your ass off until you're, like, sixty

6:46

years old doing it versus, you know,

6:48

you go on the information side into the information

6:50

economy and you're, like, doing newsletter, doing podcast

6:53

courses stuff that you guys are doing where you're like, you know,

6:55

Sean might do his course and in a week

6:57

make three hundred k and then be able to

6:59

chill for, you know, two, three months if he wants

7:01

to because who cares? Right? It's

7:03

like it's just a totally different time

7:05

leverage. So I don't know. It's it's sort of depends

7:07

on, like, what you wanna do

7:09

in that regard. Dude, what's your what's

7:11

your job now? I mean, I kinda do

7:13

like ten different things. I've got

7:15

the fund, you know, like, so I ended up raising

7:17

the fund and do the rolling fund next Sean, but got a

7:19

ten million dollar venture fund that I raised

7:21

from, you know, a handful of institutions

7:23

and a bunch of, like, the GPs at big funds

7:26

invested in it and basically, like, kinda share

7:28

deal flow. I've got the newsletter which, you

7:30

know, monetizes, like, well, we

7:32

can talk about it. But, like, you know, with newsletter

7:35

sponsors now, it's a hundred twenty five

7:37

ish thousand subs and, you know, it makes

7:39

anywhere from, like, three and a half to six

7:41

thousand dollars per cent right now. And I send

7:43

it, you know, eight to ten times a month So,

7:45

you know, pretty nice just, like, business

7:47

that scales to your point on, like, time leverage.

7:49

I write the same two newsletters a week and it's pretty nice

7:51

business. And then I had this agency business that,

7:53

frankly, like, started just

7:55

because it was something that I saw, you

7:57

know, as an arbitrage opportunity early in,

7:59

like, twenty twenty one and it ended up

8:01

scaling order of magnitude, probably, like, close

8:04

to six figures a month gross revenue

8:06

business with super high margins. And so I kinda

8:08

just kept doing it and kept walking into different areas

8:10

with it. And I don't know if you guys talked about this already,

8:12

but you had come to us or you were kinda talking

8:14

on our group chat about, like, the

8:15

fork in the road moment you had. You

8:18

were like we said before, no name

8:20

private equity guy, making good money.

8:22

And you had started tweeting

8:24

out stuff pretty regularly, I

8:26

would say, I don't know, six months or year before that. And you

8:28

you it was clear you had momentum. It was clear

8:30

you were good at that. You were getting followers, maybe

8:32

had a hundred thousand or two hundred thousand followers, maybe

8:34

at that time, I'm just rounding around.

8:36

But it wasn't you didn't have all these other things. Like,

8:38

this clear, like, I have a fund. I have a news that makes

8:40

money. I have an agency that makes money. So you didn't

8:42

know exactly what was on the other side of

8:44

that hill. and you were debating,

8:46

what should I do? Should I you know, the the forklift

8:48

a lot of people have, should I stay in my job? That's

8:50

a good, cushy job? Or should

8:52

I take this leap of faith into the

8:54

unknown give us, like, the two minute story of,

8:56

like, you know, how did you think about that? And how did you decide?

8:58

And was that the right way to think about

9:00

it? Yeah. I mean, I, like, a

9:02

lot of people had the, like, COVID

9:04

moment of what the fuck am I doing with my

9:06

life? And, you know, am I happy doing it? Like,

9:08

you know, all of a sudden for the first time in my

9:10

life, after, I guess, it had been six

9:12

years working in in private

9:14

equity, which at the time, you know, it was like eighty to a hundred

9:16

hour weeks. Right? So you don't really have time to look up.

9:18

You don't think about shit because you're just working

9:20

and you're you're making more and more money and so you're, like,

9:22

patting yourself on the back, things you're good,

9:24

you're you're Indian, Sean, like, Indian mother

9:26

thinks it sounds impressive. things are good. She

9:28

probably wants you to go get an MD, but

9:30

it sounds pretty good. Is that what

9:32

your mother wanted you to do, Sean? My

9:34

mom yeah. She was yeah. Yeah. That all

9:36

those things. She She definitely was

9:38

like, don't leave a good paying job. That

9:40

was just like a general rule

9:42

or general rule of thumb. I mean,

9:44

my mom to this day still asks

9:47

me why I didn't go to medical school or

9:49

why I didn't get a PhD in all

9:51

seriousness. Like, the Indian mother

9:53

thing is sort of a meme, but it's also very

9:55

real. So, like, you should go work for

9:57

McKinsey if you're gonna work in in professional

9:59

services. That's the only place that is that's

10:01

respectable. But yeah, man. I mean, I was doing that.

10:03

COVID hit all of a sudden I was like, what

10:05

am I doing with my life? I had time on my

10:07

hands to actually, like, think about other stuff for

10:09

the first time in my professional life. And so

10:11

I started I mean, the Twitter thing I just, like,

10:13

I started writing And I didn't

10:15

ever think of it as a potential way to, like, go

10:17

make money or get another job or do

10:19

something else. But as it started to grow and as it

10:21

started to spiral, we were in like, group

10:23

chat together. Right? And I started seeing

10:26

friends from the tech world, how they were

10:28

leveraging, you know, platforms, Twitter,

10:30

etcetera to make money. I was like, I wonder

10:32

whether there's a way that I can actually,

10:34

you know, build like a little side hustle with

10:36

this, whether it was courses or whether it was

10:38

an agency necessarily, like, well, whatever it was. I never really

10:40

thought about the fund or investing side at the time.

10:42

And then, candidly, like, I had a conversation with

10:44

you, Sean, that I remember being really impactful

10:46

where I was, like, at a

10:48

real crossroads, and I thought I was

10:50

gonna join another type of investing firm. And we

10:52

were gonna move back to the East Coast to because your family,

10:54

I was gonna do that. And I remember you

10:56

saying to me, like it sounds like you're just gonna

10:58

go do the thing that kinda sounds like it

11:00

sucks. Instead of doing the thing that you

11:02

actually get a lot of energy from, which is all this

11:04

new stuff and that feels scalable and

11:06

that you're, you know, you're fired up about. So why are you

11:08

making that decision? And until someone just

11:11

reframed it for me like that, I had never thought

11:13

about it. I was just gonna have been silent. down

11:15

the path that fell safe. it was like

11:17

a stupid conversation, frankly, but had a pretty big impact.

11:20

You had described it. You were like, I'm

11:22

thinking about path a or path b, but the way you

11:24

described it, like, path a sound is like

11:26

shit. Like, sounded super hard and

11:28

not that much fun. In fact, these

11:30

sounded like a lot of fun. Just like, you know, some

11:32

unknowns, but like, definitely good was gonna come of it. And I

11:34

was like, How is this even a a

11:36

decision? Like, it sounds like you're saying I'm choosing between a

11:38

bad option and a good option. Go with the good

11:40

one. Funny story about path a.

11:42

So at the time, that path

11:44

a, this is real, was to join,

11:46

like, a crossover hedge fund, like, a hedge

11:48

fund that also does investments in private

11:50

tech companies. And my final interview

11:52

my final interview I had to pitch a

11:54

stock and the stock they gave me to pitch was

11:56

Stitch Fix. And I had to decide

11:58

like, I had a week and I had to decide

12:00

whether it was a buy, you know,

12:02

or or a short. Like, if it was a long or a

12:04

short. And I did, like, a week of

12:06

research, like, made this long deck like, did this

12:08

I mean, it was miserable. Did all this thing.

12:10

It was trading at the time at,

12:12

like, forty six dollars. And

12:14

it had come off, you know, it had gone up to,

12:16

like, a hundred in the whole,

12:18

like, Archagos. You know, Bill Huang was, like,

12:20

pumping up stocks by doing, like, buying the swaps,

12:22

pumped all the way up, and then it came down to forty

12:24

six. And I pitched it as a buy, got

12:26

rejected because my pitch was

12:28

shitty. And now that stock is trading

12:30

at three dollars and fifty six cents.

12:32

So I would have taken path a and I would have

12:34

gotten fired within six months for sure.

12:37

Dude, so something that's interesting is like,

12:39

I get asked maybe

12:41

five times a week if someone can, like, write

12:43

tweets for me. or,

12:45

like, cut videos for me and all

12:47

this stuff. And it's pretty crazy. I don't know if

12:49

it only happens like what the popularity level is,

12:51

where you have to where you start getting those inbounds.

12:53

but I get it's so often that I get this.

12:55

And you like, it's oh, there's, like,

12:57

this weird I get people asking me all the time to

12:59

go, are you in Sighthill are you in

13:01

this person? Are you in that person to Saho friends with this person?

13:04

Because there's this weird

13:06

circle jerk of a Twitter world.

13:08

And feel as though that, like,

13:11

you are connected to,

13:13

like, many, many, many tens of

13:15

millions of followers and

13:17

reach. And, like, there's just, like, weird

13:19

behind the scenes thing going on with

13:21

your agency. It's the dark underground

13:23

cabal that runs Twitter? No.

13:25

No. I mean, Sean, you actually remember this. Right? Didn't

13:27

like some kid hit you up and say that

13:29

he ghost wrote tweets for me. And

13:31

then you you just texted me. We're like,

13:33

this dude ghost right for you. And I was like, no, I've never heard of this

13:35

kid in my life. He was just lying. And

13:37

then I hit him up saying, like, yo, why are

13:39

you lying? This person, and he completely

13:42

panicked. Yeah. I mean, I mean, the, like, the

13:44

world of of ghost writing tweets

13:46

has now become again,

13:48

like, it's become a meme because, oh, is it, like, business

13:50

insider wrote an article about v getting

13:52

ghost writers to write tweets for them. That

13:54

wasn't at all how my agency things

13:56

started. It started in,

13:58

like, late twenty twenty because

13:59

I'd started to figure out that

14:02

threads were the way that people were growing on Twitter. And

14:04

keep in mind, you know, Sean, you were around the

14:06

group chat at the time, but that was like before threads

14:08

had become the, like, thread boy meme

14:10

that they are today. And so there was, like,

14:12

legitimate arbitrage in writing

14:14

quality threads. And I had all

14:16

these startups that I had invested in

14:18

the founders of which were like, wow, we see a ton of

14:20

value in having a platform and a brand. Can you help

14:22

us think through how to do this? because you've

14:24

done it? Like, I that that point gotten seventy five

14:26

thousand followers or so. And so I was like, yeah. Let me you

14:28

know, I basically, like, started an LLC,

14:30

like, an advisory business, basically. And

14:32

I started giving, like, strategic

14:35

support to these startups on how

14:37

to think about content. How much how much

14:39

would you charge them? I was charging five

14:41

grand a month to a startup for basically

14:43

like you know, it was, like, texting and

14:45

then maybe, like, one call every other

14:47

week. And it was, like, so low

14:49

because it was so low on time from what they

14:51

needed from me because it was mostly, like, founders

14:53

didn't wanna actually spend a ton of time on it. They just

14:55

wanted to be able to, like, kind of understand

14:57

it, and then they would have people on their end that

14:59

just, like, went off and did things with it. what

15:02

was the high level, like, 123

15:04

bullet points that you would tell these founders so

15:06

that they could just be better at this? It was

15:08

basically, like, you need your

15:10

two or three pillars of content that

15:12

you're going to be able to talk about consistently

15:15

that are, like, valuable for

15:17

you as startup or as a founder. So if you're a

15:19

founder, I mean, at the time, it was talk about,

15:21

you know, building companies and things

15:23

you're learning along the way, which now

15:25

is, like, ultrasaturated on Twitter. Right? There's

15:27

like a million people that aren't necessarily

15:29

credible writing about that. At the time, there

15:31

weren't that many founders doing it. Like, I

15:33

don't know if you guys have seen the, like,

15:35

copy AI founder. I forget his name,

15:37

Paul. He's gonna be an investor, Sean. And you know that

15:39

business? Sam is. Not me. I

15:41

am. Yeah. And he was, like, first

15:43

one sort of that was like really building

15:45

in public, quote unquote, and like sharing about

15:47

their journey and the things they were learning. So I was

15:49

basically telling founders you have to

15:51

establish, like, what are your two or three pillars that

15:53

you're gonna be writing about? Maybe it's, you know, building in

15:55

public, maybe it's the industry you're in, you know, maybe

15:57

it's like sharing elves along the way and like

15:59

vulnerability because people find that endearing.

16:01

It's like it's called the Pratfall effect. Have you ever heard of

16:03

that? It's when people who you perceive to

16:05

be perfect show like chinks in their armor. We

16:07

find it as humans very endearing and we

16:09

actually makes us like them more.

16:11

And so you're like, you know, playing on that. You're

16:13

like sharing your l's on the way. But I

16:15

was basically telling them versions of that on

16:17

a regular basis and like helping,

16:19

you know, kind of craft and advise them on the

16:21

content they were putting out. And it was like, five grand

16:24

a month. probably had, like,

16:26

five or so clients.

16:28

I think they were all, like,

16:30

startups I either like, the founders I

16:32

knew or I had invested in the companies. And so I

16:34

was of around and it was, you know, beneficial

16:36

to me to, like, see them continue to grow and do that.

16:38

So you, like, invest in the companies and they give you

16:40

that money right back. I like that. Alright.

16:42

And when today's episode is brought to you by imperfect

16:45

action hosted by Steph Taylor. It's a

16:47

podcast on HubSpot's podcast

16:49

network. The audio destination

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for business professionals. In

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perfect action is a bite sized online

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episodes include some of the biggest mistakes you can make with

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and another one is five ways to

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make content creation less

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consuming. So check it out. It's called

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in perfect action. You can look it up

17:22

wherever you get your podcast. It

17:24

was a good way to hedge the I this was personal investments at

17:26

the time. So this was, like, you know, I might invest,

17:28

like, twenty five k in a company. If I was making that

17:30

back in five months, that was a pretty good cash

17:33

on cash turn on the original investment.

17:35

But then, like, you know, the ghostwriting

17:37

thing was interesting because basically

17:39

early mid twenty twenty one

17:42

I had a few of those clients come and say, you know, the biggest

17:44

struggle for us is that we don't have people that can write

17:46

this content. Like, we don't wanna build out a content

17:48

team when we're focused on product and

17:50

engineering and all that stuff. Like, do

17:52

you have people that can write? And right

17:54

at that time, I had done the course with

17:56

Julian Shapiro, our friend. We did a Maven

17:58

course on, like, how to build your audience, and

18:00

it was mainly how to build your audience on

18:02

Twitter. And so half that course was about, like, how

18:04

to write good threads and how to write

18:06

for Twitter. And so I had this pool

18:09

of, like, four hundred students who had gone through

18:11

the course, learned the principles of it, knew how to

18:13

do it, that then I was just able

18:15

to sort of be a connector between,

18:17

like, freelance, you know, writing

18:19

talent to then support these startups.

18:21

And, you know, the the kind of fundamental

18:23

of any agency business for anyone, the starting

18:25

one is effectively that you're like, creating

18:27

price arbitrage where you're, like, charging a client ten grand

18:29

for some or five grand for something that maybe

18:31

costs you too. And, like, you know, the

18:33

reality for most of these people is you can

18:36

pay a thousand to twenty five hundred bucks a month, maybe depending

18:38

on the output, and you can easily charge,

18:40

you know, a startup or a brand five for that,

18:42

or you can charge, like,

18:45

you know, a a founder, an entrepreneur who's doing really

18:47

well and spend a bunch of money five for just like

18:49

the fact that you're the connector between the two

18:51

points. So that was when it, like,

18:53

I would say, like, really started to scale, but

18:55

it was never for VCs for me. Like, I've never I

18:58

mean, I've never had a client that was a VC.

19:00

It's it's all been founders and it's all

19:02

been, like half tech

19:04

founders and half just, like,

19:06

nuts and bolts, like meat and potato type founders,

19:08

like Sam's, guys. What?

19:12

Your guys? Wait.

19:15

Am I a meat and potato guy or are you

19:17

not a potato guy? No. You're a meat potato

19:19

guy. Sean's my tech guy. You're my meat

19:22

and potatoes. if something's like cool or interesting, then it's kind of more

19:24

of my thing. And if something's like really

19:26

boring and, like, you know, generally correlated with

19:28

like obesity, your thing,

19:30

guys. So

19:34

I want to ask you much about like kind of

19:36

your your big vision because you're gonna be president someday.

19:38

I don't know if people know this as a future president sitting

19:40

with us. But before we do that,

19:42

people always tell us they're like, yo, you

19:44

gotta do ideas with the guests. Meaning,

19:47

they wanna hear, okay, your Saho, you see a bunch of

19:49

different things. You see a bunch of different worlds.

19:51

What opportunities do you see that

19:53

you think? Some some you should be doing or

19:55

a cool startup idea, a cool business idea,

19:57

niche opportunity, something maybe you're

19:59

not doing or whatever. Do you

20:01

have any kind of ideas on your cheat sheet?

20:03

Yeah. got three for you guys. Okay. Go for it.

20:06

Let's go through them. So so first on the agency side

20:08

just because I think there are two really obvious

20:10

ones that, like, Honestly, anyone that's listening could

20:12

probably go action on this if they wanted.

20:14

One is LinkedIn

20:16

growth agency stuff, massive opportunity

20:18

here. I mean, like, you you guys know

20:20

a couple of our friends. Me and a couple of friends are

20:22

starting a spin off agency that's just gonna focus

20:24

on LinkedIn because it's a massive arbitrage

20:27

opportunity right now in audience growth.

20:29

Twitter has become a lot more saturated because of the,

20:31

like, thread Boy thing and how many people are going

20:33

and doing it. LinkedIn I mean, you

20:35

can go post a few things and

20:38

immediately be like getting the ten k

20:40

plus. And for founders and, like, business

20:42

builders, there's so much business on

20:44

those platforms. It's huge for

20:46

recruiting. So basically, if you were to go start this, the way I would

20:48

do it, go to someone who has a

20:50

Twitter presence and you can go

20:52

create like tweet pick PIK

20:54

is the, like, web service that I use for

20:56

it. And you can basically just turn

20:59

tweets that are, like, proven with social

21:01

proof into these, like, carousels on

21:03

LinkedIn better the big growth hack on LinkedIn.

21:05

And if you go do that for them

21:07

and just say, like, look, I'll take over

21:09

your entire LinkedIn presence. You never

21:12

have to open LinkedIn because people hate opening LinkedIn.

21:14

And you just go and create carousels

21:16

for them off of proven tweets and

21:18

then go post it for them two,

21:20

three times a week off their tweets off

21:22

their tweets or off of, like, other writing

21:24

that exists that they've put out. Like, say,

21:26

they've written blogs, like, I don't know.

21:28

I mean, if you wouldn't found, you know, say it's like

21:30

Ryan Holiday and he's written a ton of blogs that are

21:32

all over the place but doesn't have a massive LinkedIn presence,

21:34

you can go, like, turn his blogs into just

21:37

shorter form writing that you put into post on

21:39

LinkedIn and say, hey, I'm a I'll

21:41

post for you three times a week. You never

21:43

have to log in. Don't even worry about it and

21:45

we'll grow you to, like, fifty k by the end of this year.

21:47

either pay us, like, you know, charge us like a 6S fee. Like,

21:49

if you get to this level, you pay

21:51

me this, or you just say, like, pay me five grand

21:53

a month and I'll do this for you, two and a half grand a month,

21:55

and I'll do this for you. the

21:57

amount of time it would take you is literally, like I mean, you

21:59

could probably do, like, an hour

22:01

a week to cover a a single person to, like,

22:04

you know, call it four hours a

22:06

grand. It's like an an awesome awesome

22:08

arbitrage opportunity. So that's one.

22:10

Like, any thoughts on that, Tim? I think I think

22:12

it's awesome. Yeah. I'm writing this

22:14

down. I I've been doing a a similar

22:16

thing. So I I hired this guy as a content

22:18

remixer for me and basically it was

22:20

take content from the pod or

22:23

or Twitter. and remix it into content on other

22:25

platforms. And I focused on I focused him on

22:27

LinkedIn because I thought thought the thing you just said, I

22:29

have kind of a hypothesis that

22:31

that's true. And I'm

22:33

now at thirty eight thousand followers on

22:35

LinkedIn, and I haven't opened LinkedIn

22:37

once. So if you see something on

22:39

LinkedIn, It's not me writing it.

22:41

It's me having the thought, but it's

22:43

not me writing that. But hold on, Sean. So you

22:45

got thirty eight thousand. Let's say that you post by

22:47

the way, this is, like, in two months. or or something

22:49

like that. Let's say you post a product that

22:52

cost or your power writing thing. Let's say

22:54

it's a thousand dollars and you sell a

22:56

thousand dollar thing to your thirty

22:58

eight thousand followers. How much revenue will you make from that?

23:00

I don't know. Haven't

23:01

tested it. Saho, you might know better, but I

23:03

also haven't been doing it for long enough.

23:05

I wouldn't expect to be able to

23:07

get value because I don't think I've given enough

23:10

yet. Like, with Twitter, same thing. You know?

23:12

Like, people

23:12

see, oh, man, you guys just you can sell a

23:14

course. You can just like say you're doing this new thing. You get a bunch

23:16

of sign ups. It's like, yeah. But but doing this

23:19

podcast for three years, do you know,

23:21

three hundred episodes you know,

23:23

that hundreds of hours of content that

23:25

somebody's listened to, say, yeah, they trust you

23:27

and they know they've come to a decision

23:29

whether you're smart and interesting or whether

23:31

you're full of shit. And they've do they

23:33

they've done they've made that that they've done all

23:35

that work, and I've done all that work beforehand. So then

23:37

when you pick an offer, it's just a simple yes

23:39

or no. It doesn't fit their life. It doesn't

23:41

do they think it'll drive value? They already trust that you could

23:43

do it. On LinkedIn, I wouldn't bet that that would

23:46

happen yet because it's just been so

23:48

recent. Yeah. I think you have to get I mean,

23:50

there's like there there's a bar that I think you have to get over from a

23:52

follower count standpoint if you use that as a

23:54

proxy before you can, like, conceivably harvest

23:56

value. You gotta, like, you know,

23:58

plant enough seeds over a period of time to Sean's

24:00

point. I think like a hundred k is probably the

24:02

point I wish you can start harvesting value from

24:04

LinkedIn. Justin Welch is this guy

24:06

that you might have seen on Twitter or Link in.

24:08

He was like, kind of like

24:10

godfather LinkedIn influencer. And

24:12

I think that dude now is making, like,

24:14

a hundred k plus on not

24:17

even cohort based courses, just like auto

24:19

courses that he generally just promotes

24:21

through LinkedIn. He, like, he has a newsletter now that he's

24:23

built through LinkedIn, like, built on the back

24:25

of LinkedIn. And now he's bigger on Twitter because

24:27

he's managed to, like, cross across all of

24:29

those. But he's doing over a hundred k a

24:31

month in in sales revenue on

24:33

his on his courses, which are

24:35

just, like, you know, they're just they're they're they're not cohort based.

24:37

So he's, like, putting in no no time now

24:39

that he's got to set up. This is

24:41

interesting. Sean, have you seen what Sahil's been

24:43

doing on Instagram? aagram.

24:45

No. I barely opened aagram. You're always

24:47

blowing up. So listen to this.

24:49

So around the same just dad

24:51

content? No. Listen. It was just hair. It's

24:53

just mostly hair. and shirt type videos

24:55

and the app. There's straps.

24:57

But around the same tab so Saho and

24:59

I, both around the same time, we're like, alright, let's take

25:01

Instagram seriously. So I started doing it and

25:03

I was beating him nicely, adding

25:05

a thousand people today. I think I started with five thousand

25:07

people, and I got to, like, forty eight or fifty

25:09

thousand in a very short amount of time. and

25:11

he was doing his thing. I was like, you need to post twice

25:13

a day, I think. And he starts doing that. And then

25:15

he just kinda like has rocketed past me. Now

25:17

he's got the sixty two thousand

25:20

followers in a very short amount of time, adding one or two

25:22

thousand people a day. And he's doing this exact same thing where

25:24

he's taking his tweets that do well and

25:26

just posting them on his

25:28

Instagram and, like, So

25:30

two points here. One, there's a

25:33

world where this is just total

25:35

vanity nonsense complete

25:37

distraction from people who have, like, their

25:39

main thing. On the other hand, what

25:41

I'm curious about is how much revenue

25:43

can this drive to people if their

25:45

goal is not be a famous theorist person. Their

25:47

goal is just to sell more shit of whatever they

25:49

own they own already. And so I'm

25:52

curious, Sahil, is Abu if

25:54

well, does does this actually drive revenue for

25:56

things? other than Yeah. I

25:58

mean, right now right now

26:00

it's generating about a so

26:02

Instagram, this past month, I think, generated

26:05

thousand newsletter subs for me just through the link

26:07

in my bio. And that's like, you know,

26:09

on average, I probably had thirty five

26:11

thousand followers. during the

26:13

month and it generated that many. So

26:15

conceivably, as it continues to scale, it'll drive,

26:17

you know, well north of that as

26:19

it as it moves. And if you think a newsletter

26:21

subscriber form is worth, you know, just off my

26:24

sponsor revenue, probably like

26:26

three to four dollars per sub. And

26:28

then if you take into account my book

26:30

that's gonna come where it's like extremely

26:32

valuable in me if they buy a book. I mean,

26:34

it's a bunch of money a month that's coming off

26:36

this that scales over time. Right?

26:38

And that's just Instagram. When you think about LinkedIn, that's another big

26:40

driver, you know, all of these platforms.

26:42

And, like, there I mean, there are ghostwriting

26:44

agencies, there are people selling products,

26:47

mostly on Instagram without

26:49

ever posting like their face. These guys are

26:51

literally like making carousels of images and

26:53

stuff, and they're doing fifty to a hundred k of

26:55

revenue through it. That's crazy.

26:56

What's an example

26:57

of that? There's this guy, Dakota Robertson,

27:00

like, wrongs to write. I think it says, like, Twitter

27:02

handle and maybe that's his Instagram handle too.

27:04

And he's got, like, I don't know, two hundred fifty

27:06

thousand followers now on on Instagram and,

27:08

like, blew up real fast. They're just from

27:11

posting his viral tweets over to

27:13

over to Instagram. Like, almost never shows

27:15

the space. and dude is has a thriving ghostwriting

27:17

business through this. Gotcha. Yeah.

27:19

I'm

27:19

torn

27:19

because on one hand, you are, like,

27:22

perfect execution. of

27:24

a strategy that I now hate.

27:27

And so I'm like, respect to you,

27:29

but I'm like, I don't even wanna talk

27:31

about this because I know what's gonna happen is there's

27:33

now gonna be nine thousand and new people who

27:35

go this podcast gonna breed

27:38

nine thousand new people that are gonna go be like, this

27:40

is my thing. I'm gonna do this. He said I

27:42

can bake you know, x amount of money per month, and their

27:44

execution is gonna be nowhere near yours. And in

27:46

general, this is like a

27:48

it's like a pathway that definitely

27:51

works but soul

27:53

sucking. The soul sucking, the window of

27:55

opportunity is closing, and it provides

27:57

Well, I think the window of opportunity is closing. That's

27:59

an important point. Yeah. I do think, like,

28:01

look, I mean, when I started writing the threads, I mean, Sean, you were

28:03

the same way. Right? Like, any thread you

28:05

wrote would blow the hell up early on. because there

28:07

just weren't that many of them. And so it was like, it's like a

28:09

market. It wasn't saturated. it.

28:11

And now it's pretty hard to get a thread to, like, really

28:13

take off. Unless you're doing the, like,

28:15

ten YouTube channels that will change

28:18

your for free. Yeah. It's like there's no big change. Which is the things that

28:20

it it's like getting fit through power walking.

28:22

Is power walking gonna burn calories

28:25

Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Are you probably not gonna get

28:27

injuries? Yeah. But, like, you have to look

28:29

like a doofist doing it as a process. And what

28:31

the neighborhood's gonna know you is that

28:34

weirdo walking. Like, you know what I mean? And

28:36

I I'm guilty of this too. Right? Like, I

28:38

did this strategy as well of being, like,

28:40

oh, I'm gonna create content

28:43

for for know, for fun initially, this podcast, Twitter, that sort

28:45

of thing. And then, oh, shit.

28:47

Okay. If I kinda sell five

28:49

percent of my soul or ten percent of my soul to

28:51

the algorithm, I think I can

28:53

get this bigger. Okay. I started doing that. And then it's like, oh, I can make

28:55

good money doing this and I, you know, make some money

28:57

doing that and that feels fun.

29:00

But, like, just wanna say as a

29:02

public service announcement, there's some people who're gonna go

29:04

do this, but let's say you're somebody who's

29:06

awesome, I'm just gonna say

29:08

this down. This was awesome to do when it

29:10

wasn't figured out. Now that it's

29:12

figured out, this is certified

29:14

official small boy stuff, and I do not

29:16

recommend this to any be awesome. And myself have

29:18

stopped doing this too. I haven't posed a threat in in But

29:20

if you are interested in this late ass shit,

29:23

Siles guy. I'm

29:26

sitting in this house because of it.

29:29

It's a lovely house. It's a lovely

29:31

house. No. I mean, look, you you have

29:33

to figure out what the what

29:35

the area is where you're gonna do it. That's not

29:37

crazy saturated and cringe. And and

29:39

to your point, like, you gotta figure out what percent

29:41

cringe are you willing to be. Like, by the way, lighting

29:43

a thread is ten percent cringe, like, level above

29:46

that just natural bass. You know what? Are you

29:48

gonna figure that out? Are you talking to

29:50

me? What?

29:52

No. I'm willing I'm willing to

29:55

accept that already, like, ten percent

29:57

of people just immediately see it and they're like, oh, this

29:59

is super cringe. And then just have to decide, like,

30:01

what level you're willing to go above that. If a hundred

30:03

percent is, like, ten chrome extensions

30:05

that'll change your life and fifty

30:07

percent is, like, you know, here are

30:09

like the TED talks that changed my life.

30:11

What's like twenty percent? Is it

30:13

some of the stuff I post probably? And,

30:15

like, if that helps a few people

30:17

out there, and, like, a bunch of

30:19

people get pissed and think that it's not for them,

30:21

I don't really give a shit personally. Like, if I

30:23

help one person and, you know, someone hits me up

30:25

and says, like, hey, that changed my perspective on x

30:27

y or z. That's what Gary V. has been doing for

30:30

decades, man. That guy's a legend of putting

30:32

out content that's like listicles and like, you

30:34

know, like motivational stuff. Tony

30:36

Robbins, like, Grant Cardo and these guys, like,

30:38

they get hate because it freaking

30:40

works and it helps people. Right? So the thing

30:42

I the thing I would say, like, have you ever been to a Tony

30:44

Robbins event? Yeah.

30:45

And I'm sure if you went to, like, you went to what? Like,

30:48

an unleashed the power within or something?

30:50

Yeah. Great. I went to loved it. I thought it was

30:52

amazing. I don't know if you liked could give it a quick but I

30:54

have a different point. Yeah. I love it.

30:56

I

30:56

mean, I love Tony Robbins stuff. Me too. And

30:58

he gets on stage and he's doing

31:00

all the things that you could

31:02

criticize somebody for. He's he's clapping. He's

31:04

saying get up and and jump. He's saying he's

31:06

gonna ask a very basic question. And the only answer

31:08

is yes, but the whole crowd says yes like

31:11

a cult. and you're like, oh, he's doing all the

31:13

things. But he's doing it

31:15

at, like, an a plus plus plus

31:17

plus level. He is really probably in

31:19

my opinion, the best public speaker I've ever seen. And

31:21

I've seen a lot. Actually, like

31:23

Obama. Yeah. Yeah. He he is he he I think he's

31:25

even more powerful than Obama. because Obama

31:27

is smooth. Obama doesn't get people

31:29

Tony Robbins will get you to walk across Kohl's and,

31:31

like, shout your greatest fear out loud. I I've

31:33

never seen Obama control the crowd for

31:35

twelve straight hours. Like Tony Robbins will do it in

31:37

event. here's what happens. You look around in

31:39

the crowd and you're like, there's a whole

31:42

spectrum of people. At the one I was in, it was like,

31:44

there were celebrities there. you know,

31:46

the the guy from three hundred, what's the name? Gerald

31:48

Butler. He was there. He was, like, two rows down from

31:50

me. I was, like, wow. This is interesting. There's some

31:52

interesting people here. And then In the

31:54

hallways, I would meet a bunch of people that thought they were

31:56

the next Tony Robbins. And they were

31:58

life coaches and motivational

32:00

speakers, and they were, you know,

32:02

changed consultants and every cringe

32:04

name you can think of and then you go look

32:06

at their stuff and it's the same

32:08

concept but not executed at

32:10

that level. because they didn't have the

32:12

hard one life experiences that

32:14

that guy had to actually, like, create this

32:16

content. They didn't have forty years

32:18

of sharpening their craft to becoming the best. They didn't have the natural talents

32:20

and charisma and, you know, larger than

32:22

life presence. And so you can

32:24

you can look at the best. You can look at the

32:26

Gary V's and the Tony Robbins. You can look at you on

32:29

Twitter and say, that's dope. You know, I could do

32:31

that. And some people, a very small number of

32:33

people can do that for for most people. they

32:35

will fall into the pit of cringe

32:37

because they're not gonna execute it at that same

32:39

level. They didn't have those hard won lessons of

32:41

actually knowing what they're talking about. and they're

32:43

gonna end up in this, like, weird middle ground.

32:45

And I think that's the scary part. I

32:47

mean, that's kind of like that's like any market

32:49

though. Right? Like, you know, someone starts

32:51

a company and it's the a plus

32:53

version of some, like, a restaurant chain. Someone

32:55

starts the restaurant chain. That's like the a plus of

32:57

that thing. And then a bunch of people come in to

32:59

try to mimic it and it's like the b plus

33:01

version and, you know, like, whatever.

33:03

Like, say say in and out is the a plus burger

33:05

version and then someone tries to come in and start the,

33:07

like, five guys or whatever next. I'm probably gonna get

33:09

hate for saying in and out's better than five

33:11

guys. But, you know, whatever. Like, you kind of have

33:13

the diluted versions. And the question

33:15

is, like, hey, do you care

33:17

that you're the diluted version of

33:19

Tony if you're making money doing it and taking care of your family.

33:21

because, like, I I know a lot of people that are just

33:23

like, I don't give a shit. Like, you know, I grew

33:25

my audience, super cringe stuff

33:27

and I'm making twenty five grand a month. I was

33:29

making five doing my prior job or ten doing

33:31

my prior job. I'm making this sitting at home and I get

33:33

spent time with my kids. do I give a

33:35

shit if a bunch of tech people think that I'm cringe? Like, I'm making money. It is

33:37

what it is. And so I kind of I appreciate

33:39

that too. The other thing I would say is,

33:42

like, what game are you playing? Like, what is the

33:44

long term game you're playing? And for

33:46

me, I was always thinking about, like, what

33:48

is the thing I'm trying to build

33:50

long term. Like, I wasn't trying to be, you

33:53

know, a Twitter thread, like, a thread

33:55

guy. Like, that's not my long term vision of what

33:57

it was. it vaulted me from being

33:59

a nobody private equity guy, as you

34:01

said, to, like, I signed a book deal last

34:03

month, like a big book deal last

34:05

month. you know, like, I raised a fund. I never would have been able to raise

34:07

a fund that's like this nobody VP in private

34:09

equity. And so to me, it's like, what

34:11

are you actually parlaying that shit

34:13

into as you continue to go. If you're able to find

34:15

the thing that you think you're a plus at, even if it's

34:17

for a short period of time, like, how are you using

34:19

that to vault yourself into that next

34:22

level where you're like, I'm not even in the same

34:24

class as these other guys that are doing the thing I was

34:26

doing previously because I moved into whatever that

34:28

next, you know, that, like, operation on is. Do you

34:30

know you're worried about Elon screwing it

34:32

up for you? Not really. You

34:34

know, it's funny. Well, did he see what he

34:36

really quick? He he, like, said

34:38

something and then Steph, my old coworker said, like, does

34:40

this mean that, like, the thread boys are

34:42

gonna go away? and actually forget his reply. What did he say? But it sounded like he was saying I

34:44

mean, you did like a crying emoji. I mean, yeah,

34:46

like, I think it was something about he said, you know,

34:48

you could basically like put a long form

34:52

text onto a tweet. So you don't have to, like, people were used to take a

34:54

screenshot of like their notes app on their phone to

34:56

post a long form thing. I think all that

34:58

stuff is good. I

35:00

mean, like, Look, I've already benefited from being early to a

35:02

market. I grew to a big level. I built

35:04

a brand that now extended into things

35:06

that I own, like the newsletter,

35:08

you know, that's gotten quite large

35:10

and it's growing faster like the fun or like the

35:12

book, whatever it is, I would be more worried if

35:14

I was like just starting out in any one of

35:16

these things and had dedicated

35:18

all this time, you know, if you've rewound me a year and I was like

35:20

just starting to get all these things going, I'd

35:22

probably be a little more worried. But the reality is

35:24

it's like, eat or beaten,

35:26

man. If you're if you're not like figuring out the

35:28

new way to to to be on the front

35:30

of something and be building in these other areas,

35:32

you're in for a tough time no

35:34

matter what. let's talk about this newsletter thing. You said you had three ideas,

35:36

newsletters number two. newsletter growth agency. So

35:38

this is a second idea. Biggest issue I

35:40

have with my

35:42

newsletter is I wanna write it.

35:44

Like, I love writing. That's my number one

35:46

thing that gives me a lot of energy.

35:48

I freaking hate thinking about and

35:50

dealing with any of the, like, business or

35:52

growth side of the newsletter. The

35:54

business side is very easy to

35:56

outsource. There's like I mean, you know, there's there's

35:58

ad agencies now. ConvertKit has an ad

35:59

network where they'll manage the whole back end of your

36:02

newsletter. They'll bring in sponsors for it. They'll

36:04

send you the money. It's like super super easy. It's

36:06

amazing. Nathan crushed it getting

36:08

that thing out there. But the

36:10

growth side of newsletters

36:12

is completely untouched. There's no

36:14

one out there that I've been able to find that is

36:16

like a full suite growth service

36:18

for your newsletter. when I say grow suite,

36:20

I literally mean, like, I want someone

36:22

thinking about my landing

36:24

pages and optimizing that. I want someone

36:26

thinking about

36:28

referral networks newsletter swaps. I want someone thinking about paid

36:30

ads, you know, SEO from my website to

36:32

drive subs, how to

36:34

optimize it my different social

36:36

channels, literally just someone that's sitting around thinking

36:38

about growth for the newsletter so that I can just focus

36:40

on writing. And I'd literally be willing to

36:42

pay, I mean, My willingness to pay at the size of newsletter that I'm at now

36:44

and given what newsletter subs are worth to me is

36:46

very high. Like, I would easily pay ten grand a month

36:48

to someone that could figure that out and do it in

36:50

one place.

36:52

on top of whatever I would spend on paid ads, etcetera. Do you think that that

36:54

thing workweek is gonna do that? No. Dude, I

36:56

mean, like, I I don't know how much you guys know

36:58

about work. I I don't know

37:01

a whole ton about Workweek, but from what I

37:03

can tell, it's mostly back end

37:06

services of newsletters. And there's another

37:08

one called smooth ops I think spun out from

37:10

Morning Brew didn't work. We spun out of the hustle,

37:12

didn't it? Not spun out. They they worked

37:14

for The guy was there. Yes. Same thing

37:16

with the Morning Brew, smooth ops.

37:18

Like, my understanding of all of those is that they're much more focused on, like,

37:20

helping you monetize and,

37:22

you know, managing your, like, business that you

37:24

can focus

37:26

on writing. I literally just want someone that just all they think about all day

37:28

like an absolute killer. That just all they

37:30

think about is growth. I mean, Sean, did you have

37:32

someone I mean, or was

37:34

Ben like at at at Mill Road. My guy was right, Sean?

37:36

No. Ben Ben was the guy who woke up every day,

37:38

just

37:38

said how do we get more subscribers? And,

37:40

like, you know, that's that was his mission and

37:42

that's what he did. But,

37:45

you

37:45

know, we needed it's like, that that more of a company, whereas,

37:47

like, you know, most people's personal

37:49

things are not like, you're

37:51

at a sign where there's just

37:54

not that many newsletters that are at your

37:56

size that can afford to pay for

37:58

something like that? You know, how many people

37:59

how many people could afford to pay ten k

38:02

per month? to try to drive growth? Well, so I think

38:04

a lot.

38:04

So I tweeted this and a bunch of

38:06

people were, like, replying saying they would pay

38:08

for it in different ways.

38:10

My hypothesis is that there's a ton of, like, successful

38:13

founders and entrepreneurs that want

38:15

to build a newsletter, an

38:18

owned list or, like, an essay type thing, like, what Sam Waldman Paul

38:20

Graham have, where they have, you know, SEO

38:22

and newsletter, you know, like emails that are coming

38:24

to them, and they're willing to pay a

38:27

lot because they actually have been successful and just

38:29

have a bunch of money. They don't need it to be revenue generating at the outset. And I think

38:32

you I mean, I bet if

38:34

you develop of

38:36

competency and basically, like, partner say say

38:38

someone partnered with me and

38:40

proved it out over, like, two, three months, had

38:42

drove this. and then we're able to

38:44

use me as a case study. Maybe I own a

38:46

percentage of it, you know, on the upside

38:48

until I'm incented to, like, bring them

38:50

new referrals. I bet you could grow a

38:52

pretty big business there quickly. Mhmm.

38:54

Yeah. You only need, like, twenty clients

38:56

basically to make this idea worth

38:58

a while. I mean, if it's a personal business, you don't even need twenty clients. I mean,

39:00

you get ten at five a month or ten

39:02

at ten a month and you have, like, you

39:04

know, it's eighty eighty

39:06

plus percent margin probably business if you're just

39:08

running it simple. But are you having the headache

39:10

of having a service

39:12

business? Yeah. I mean,

39:14

he's definitely not productized. Like, I've thought about

39:16

starting a day to see, like, maybe twenty times of

39:18

my life, and then literally five minutes later every single

39:20

time, I'm like, don't go in the service business. Don't go in

39:22

the service business. Now I we have several

39:24

friends that have done it. Right? Like, you know, Andrew

39:27

will consent to it with Metallab. Our buddy, Greg, has

39:29

done a great job with it with check

39:31

out. You're doing it now with your thing.

39:33

So, you know, maybe I have the wrong bias here. What

39:35

do you think? I mean, what you have to do is

39:37

hire a great operator. If you wanna be

39:40

the, owner of some percentage of it and not have the headaches,

39:42

you gotta just recruit a killer operator

39:44

who's gonna run all of it. I mean, that's what we're

39:46

doing with the spin out agency

39:48

that we're doing now around LinkedIn

39:50

stuff is like, just gonna hire someone

39:52

exceptional and give them, like, fifteen

39:54

percent of the ops. and just say, like,

39:56

you're a hustler, you're a killer, you can

39:58

get a whole ton of That was awesome. That's

40:00

why finance team, man. Never done that

40:02

was awesome. really? Oh, that's the that's the that's the no name

40:04

PE guy coming out of me right there. Dude, you give

40:06

him a look. I thought a PE guy was a guy who likes,

40:08

like, played a dodgeball in recess. Like,

40:10

that's a PE is

40:12

to me. Earlier here, I was talking about beta, and I

40:14

was like, you're talking about nerds? I don't understand what

40:16

what the hell is beta. It is

40:19

a good thing. Yeah. Well, you know, how about beta it's like

40:21

a a good thing. I was like, I don't understand what

40:23

that means. You're kind of a low beta

40:25

guy, actually. Sam, if I

40:28

think about like, you kinda you're kinda,

40:30

like, even key. Like, I feel like I know within a

40:32

band what I'm gonna get out of you any any given

40:34

day. III think you're

40:36

complimenting me, but I don't

40:38

III know you like you show up. You tweeted about that recently. You hate when

40:40

people say they're gonna do something and then not do

40:42

it. Like, you so you take pride in being

40:45

low paid people know what they can expect from you on a given day.

40:47

By the way, what a what a stupid thing

40:49

to tweet. Yeah. Like, I like Long Watts in the

40:51

beach and movies. Like, who who likes

40:53

somebody who says they're gonna do something and doesn't do

40:55

it. What an obvious tweet?

40:58

Yeah. First of all, give

41:00

me the cloud that I deserve. like,

41:02

don't hate. What did what did SciShow say, don't

41:04

hate? Number two, I'm

41:06

not saying it's like people who say they're afraid of

41:08

heights. Like, yeah, everyone's afraid of heights,

41:10

but, like, you just like some people that just like I you know,

41:12

it's like what's high on your list. Yeah. I

41:14

don't think that I don't know. Like like, there's a

41:16

lot of things that I know you, Sean,

41:18

that that don't annoy me and vice

41:20

versa. Like what? That's what's one thing with noise you, Sean, that you don't think a noise, Sam.

41:22

I don't think anything in noise. Not think it noise

41:26

me. That's

41:28

it. That's the beauty of it. Wait. Really,

41:30

you don't think anything bothers you? No. I think

41:32

Yeah. Now I wanna dig into it. bothers you.

41:35

I bothers me is only usually

41:38

things with myself. So, like, if I find

41:40

myself in a bad mood

41:42

or, like, getting annoyed with

41:44

something or getting bothered by something or getting impatient

41:46

with something, that's actually the thing that

41:48

bothers me. I'm like, oh, man, I let this get

41:50

to me. like, for, like, that second, that's the thing that gets to me. Right? So

41:52

usually, it's not something that frustrates me or

41:54

annoys me. It's usually either

41:56

impatient or

41:58

boredom or feeling crankier tired or something like that. You know, like

41:59

and I'm like, oh, no. I I don't wanna be

42:02

that way. That that bothers me. So

42:04

for years, I used to say that

42:05

Sean, I was like, I

42:07

was like, I think gonna have a pretty steady path to wealth

42:10

creation. And Sean, you either gonna like,

42:12

it's not gonna be as extreme. I think we we

42:14

joke around with mister B's

42:16

where, like, you know, six out of ten times, if you were

42:18

reborn, you'd be a degenerate, like,

42:20

gambler or drug addict and, like, four out four out of

42:22

ten times, you'd be successful with

42:24

Sean. It's not that bad, but

42:26

it's like, you know, you're gonna you're you're the type of

42:28

guy who controls the dice and, like, you might

42:30

actually hit it big. There's a good chance, or you

42:32

might, like, just be only okay for a

42:34

long time. And now so I was basically saying, yeah, your likelihood I think of

42:36

being a billionaire is actually higher than mine, but your

42:38

likelihood of being like a degenerate is

42:40

probably also

42:42

higher. Yeah. Hi, Beta.

42:44

Yeah. Fine. Here's the problem with Sean.

42:46

I've just realized over the past

42:48

handful of months. He is too

42:50

emotionally healthy to probably be incredibly

42:54

successful. He has this problem that

42:56

few people have, which is he's

42:58

just happy. You know what I

43:00

mean? He's got this it's just this It

43:02

depends on your definition of success, man. I would

43:04

argue that Sean is the most successful then,

43:06

man. If he's like, Super happy.

43:08

Yeah. If you define success by these

43:10

superficial things like happiness and well-being and all

43:12

that bullshit.

43:14

Stupid stuff. Yeah. I do. I will say that Sean has more

43:16

high highs and low lows this

43:18

year, at least from my, like, perceived view

43:20

of Sean through our group text.

43:24

and, like, and he's totally unfazed. Like, Sean, I mean,

43:26

look, flashback to, like, you know, a like,

43:28

Crypto crash. Right? I'm, like, you know, Sean's

43:30

down bound from texting Sam on, like,

43:33

shot okay. Like, Sean's texting the group chat. Totally fine.

43:35

I'm like, yo, as Sean broke, like, is Sean

43:37

doing margin called right now? Like, I have no idea what's

43:39

going on. And then Sean's like, yo, I sold all

43:42

my stock. And I was like,

43:44

holy shit. Sean sold the bottom. Sean

43:46

sold the bottom. Like, markets roaring in

43:48

June, and then the market crashes

43:50

again. And Sean's a genius trader that,

43:52

like, sold the top of the market or

43:54

something. The dude is just like does that

43:56

stuff bother you at all, Sean? Like, first of

43:58

all, what press prior to selling a

44:00

business recently, but what was your

44:02

network down just a significant amount? Yeah.

44:04

Probably I mean, it's hard to calculate that

44:06

sort of thing. So but let's say liquid of the

44:08

liquid stuff, So

44:09

not counting equity in companies, you know, it's probably

44:11

down fifty percent or something like that. I

44:13

mean, most of the investments I I didn't

44:15

keep much cash. This was my

44:17

investment strategy pre twenty

44:19

twenty two. Right? So my investor who's was cashless trash

44:21

and, you know, piss bumps all around to my

44:23

boys who thought cashless

44:26

trash. Then Oh,

44:28

dude. Is there a safer investment than

44:30

Amazon? This blue chipper. Right?

44:32

Like, that's my version of of

44:35

safety is, yeah, I'm gonna put in some boring tech

44:38

companies, you know, the the Amazon's, Googles,

44:40

Facebook's of the world. What could

44:42

go wrong? And then lastly,

44:44

you know, then, you know, a huge amount of

44:46

startups that were, you know, getting marked up like crazy

44:48

fist bumps all around, getting my ups, getting my ups. My ups is

44:50

going ups. And then the last thing was crypto. And I was like,

44:52

oh, well, see, your voice is a genius

44:54

and moved a huge percentage of net net worth

44:56

into, you know, bitcoin

44:58

and Ethereum. And oh, and

45:00

then this Luna shit, that's pop in. I'm

45:02

doing great. So, you know, that's that was

45:04

me before. So basically, every single thing I

45:06

had invested in has gone, you

45:08

know, what's my you know, what's that thing? Like, my

45:10

terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day. Like, I was

45:12

basically having that for this year in terms of

45:14

investments, but you know, whatever. Did it

45:16

bother you? Well, I didn't like

45:18

losing money, but, like, you know, did I let it

45:20

bother me? No. Like, you know, I

45:22

basically

45:22

lose sleep. No. I took steps.

45:24

I was like, okay. Well, what matters here? Like,

45:26

okay. Let me just first get perspective. You

45:28

know, am I in any kind of hardship as my

45:30

family doing for it now? They're they're fine.

45:32

Right? Secondly, what should I actually do? Do I need to make some adjustments? Was I wrong

45:34

about certain things? Or should I do some things to give

45:36

myself more comfort? So why did I sell? I

45:40

sold I basically margin called myself. I was like, you know what? I think things are gonna go

45:42

lower, and I don't wanna sweat this all the

45:44

time. So I'm gonna sell this amount here

45:46

so that I don't have to worry anything,

45:49

I'm gonna move more into cash and I'm gonna book this

45:51

loss because I think that'll that'll offset against

45:53

some gains that I have this year. And,

45:55

you know, then I won't have

45:57

to think about stuff for a little while. I will focus on these other things that

45:59

I want to be focusing on because I'm not a trader. I'm not a,

46:01

like, investment genius, so that's not gonna be

46:04

my goal. And then,

46:06

I don't know. I I never got my

46:08

happiness from when it was going up, so why would I get my sadness

46:10

from when it's going down? Didn't make sense to me. You

46:12

must have felt good when

46:14

Luna, like, think you you originally plugged Luna in Milk Road

46:16

at, like, forty. And I like I bought

46:18

some. I was like, yeah. Sean's pretty smart. He knows

46:20

this crypto

46:22

shit. hands down. And so I, like, I bought a bag. Like,

46:24

I you know, I'm not like I'm not really to generate cryptocurrency,

46:26

but I, like, bought a bag of Luna. And that

46:28

shit went up to, like, one teen.

46:30

And I was like, yo, Sean is my god. Like, Sean, what other what

46:32

other ideas do you have? And then I we

46:35

were supposed to interview on our old pod. We

46:37

were supposed to interview Doquan. Like, hit

46:39

him up on Twitter. He's supposed to come on the

46:42

pod on, like, a Thursday. And

46:44

on that Sunday, like,

46:46

Luna had been wavering, like, it had come down

46:48

to, like, eighty or something. And I

46:50

get an email from his assistant that just says, unfortunately, Joe will have

46:52

to reschedule the interview for this Thursday.

46:54

And I'm sitting in bed and I'm like,

46:57

I got a little bit of the Hebe JVs. Like, I don't know what

46:59

this is. So I go downstairs and I sell my

47:02

entire bag at, like, I don't know,

47:04

a small gain. Like, not

47:06

not good. I sell the whole thing. Next morning, I wake up and that shit's at, like,

47:08

fuck. Like, the whole the whole thing

47:10

unraveled overnight, and then I get an email from

47:12

his assistant like, he's gonna have

47:14

to cancel the interview. And I'm like, yeah. Well, this dude has a

47:16

red notice out for him. No shit. He's not

47:18

coming on our podcast at this

47:20

point. Yeah.

47:20

That was that was a bad day. I was on vacation. I was in

47:22

Hawaii with my family. And I'm watching my and

47:24

I'm like, I don't even have I'm not even at my computer.

47:26

Like, I can't even get to my crypto. Like,

47:30

it's not like, on my laptop or

47:32

whatever. So I'm like, well, couldn't couldn't make a move if I wanted

47:34

to. So I guess I'll just, like, you know,

47:36

lose all this money here and, you

47:38

know, just enjoyed this case,

47:41

there's nothing else I could do this remarkably cool about it. I remember

47:43

texting with you that day. The framework you've talked about

47:45

in the past that I love around this stuff

47:47

is your local verse tourist

47:49

thing. I think that's so good of, like,

47:52

tourists freak out when the seasons change and

47:54

just bounce. Yeah. And

47:56

locals are aware that there

47:58

are seasons and that, you know, it comes

48:00

in swings and they're aware of the

48:02

environment. So they can stick it out and

48:04

be fine through it. I've always just thought

48:06

there's a third one, which is the, like,

48:08

stubborn local, like, the dude that lives

48:10

in the coastal village, and it's like, oh,

48:12

global warming's not real. And then he's

48:14

fucking underwater. and like drowning

48:16

and he's like, our global warming is not real as

48:18

he drowns. And so I'm always just like, how do

48:20

you make sure that you don't go from being the, like,

48:22

the local and you're proud of being a local to the

48:24

stubborn local that just sits there until you

48:26

die. Yeah. That's the hardest thing. And I

48:28

remember with startups, this was always the question because you'll

48:30

hear a story like Pinterest had

48:32

no traction for over a year and then finally started to work because

48:34

he walked into an Apple store and, like, started

48:36

putting Pinterest as a default homepage on these,

48:38

you know, he hustled. He

48:40

was determined. And it's like, oh,

48:42

okay. Got it. So determination. Just keep

48:44

going even when all the data's telling you

48:46

that this ain't working. And then there's like the

48:48

exact other advice, which is like, no.

48:50

You gotta super data driven, feedback oriented, you gotta listen to

48:52

the market, all that matters is are you making something people

48:54

want? And if you have no users, you gotta like, you

48:56

know, make adjustments, you

48:58

gotta pivot. And so the hardest

49:00

question as a founder is to

49:02

know, am I being the right kind of

49:04

stubborn? Right? So am I being

49:06

stubborn because I'm right,

49:08

and I need to, you know, just

49:10

tweak just make small adjustments and just

49:12

stay at it, be determined, and

49:14

be persistent. or am I banging my head against the wall, and I need to listen to the

49:16

to the signals, and I need to be changing my mind.

49:18

And nobody can give the generic advice

49:20

about when to do what.

49:22

It's super like, super

49:24

context dependent, super circumstance

49:26

dependent. Same thing with investing. Right?

49:28

Like, you know, am I about should

49:30

I should I should I still believe in

49:32

something even you know, do I believe in Facebook stock

49:34

now that it's getting crushed? Right.

49:36

And for me, I went and bought more recently because I

49:38

was like, know, what do I believe about this company and has that changed? And

49:40

so the tourist first local,

49:42

right, is you gotta ask yourself, like, does

49:44

the thing I believed about this?

49:46

Has that change. Do I have new information that makes me update my thinking

49:48

here? Do I am I, you know, am I holding on to

49:50

this position just so that I don't feel like I'm

49:52

wrong? Right? Like, you know, am I am I willing

49:54

to upset accept

49:56

accept being wrong. You gotta ask yourself all these questions and be able to be honest

49:58

with yourself. Has that changed

50:00

with crypto? No. My my

50:02

opinions and my conviction has stayed the same,

50:04

but that's about crypto. as a whole. Right?

50:07

Then on each specific, maybe project or coin, you might have like

50:09

a slightly different opinion. Well, what's what's one

50:11

thing that you think is bullshit

50:13

now that you didn't think was bullshit a year and a

50:15

half ago. So I'll give you an example where that's not

50:17

true, then I'll give you example where that's true. So the not true

50:19

one is like, let's take Luna,

50:21

for the bet on Luna was always knowing

50:24

that there's this The way it was

50:26

architected was this thing is gonna rocket up

50:28

because the sort of the what they called the Pons and

50:30

Omics. Right? Like, theory

50:32

incentive. Yeah. But people don't understand, like,

50:34

the basically, it's just like a economic a

50:36

series of economic incentives. And so

50:39

the incentives were were aligned such

50:41

that this thing should go up

50:43

during the during you know, when as

50:46

as certain participants behave a

50:48

certain way. And from the beginning, there was always these blog posts out there about what does

50:50

the death cycle look like. So what if this reversed

50:52

course, would this not because

50:54

Luna's the collateral, would it not cause

50:56

it to you know, collapse

50:58

really fast. And the question was, like, will that

51:00

happen or won't that happen? So even when you invest in it at

51:02

the beginning, we wrote our little investment memo to

51:04

ourselves about, like, Here's our one pager. Why

51:06

we think this is a good idea and why we think

51:08

this could go horribly wrong? When it

51:10

crashed, it wasn't like something we never had never

51:12

thought of. It was Oh, yeah. That downside

51:14

scenario we talked about, that's exactly what

51:16

happened. Right? Like, basically, there was a

51:18

giant, you

51:18

know, cell pressure that that car

51:20

cause that cascading down cycle. Yep. That we always thought that could happen. We had hoped it

51:22

wouldn't happen. We had thought that maybe there was a,

51:24

you know, there would be a way to

51:28

to put

51:28

buy pressure back against it, but nope, it wasn't work. And so

51:31

this is very fast example

51:33

of basically, just because

51:35

it turned out bad. Doesn't mean I changed

51:37

my position because actually at the beginning we said, well, here's why I'm not putting

51:39

my entire network

51:40

into this. Right? I put two fifty k into

51:42

it. That's not like a massive

51:45

bet for me. It's a solid sized bet. Right? So it's like, you know, I

51:48

put appropriately sized bet because I thought I had

51:50

upside and I thought there were some some key

51:52

risks with it. say

51:54

I've changed my opinion most on is I thought,

51:56

man, if people start to

51:57

worry about inflation and they

52:00

look

52:00

at man, you know, I

52:02

have the same hundred k in my bank, but it just doesn't buy me same amount it used to.

52:05

Right? They don't realize, like, people

52:07

will become more aware that

52:09

the money they have is diminishing the cash they have,

52:11

the US dollars they have is diminishing in

52:14

value, that they will probably look to go

52:16

to a a monetary system that doesn't have

52:18

that problem. And so

52:20

the idea that Bitcoin will

52:22

do well if people start

52:24

to if if inflation becomes something that people

52:26

are more and more worried about with the US

52:28

dollar.

52:29

and and that hasn't happened.

52:31

Inflation got as bad as it's ever

52:33

been, but

52:33

people's response was more

52:36

conservative than aggressive. People

52:38

did not make a change to the Bitcoin monetary system, which would not

52:40

have that problem. They sort of, you know, sort of

52:42

stuck with it, and actually the US dollar's

52:44

gain strength because other

52:46

currencies got crushed even

52:48

worse, and so the dollars gain strength. So that

52:50

was one that I had thought that this was this

52:52

was what would happen and makes me reassess Was my

52:54

logic

52:54

incorrect or something else? You know, what what what

52:56

did I get wrong about this idea that in

52:58

a high inflation environment, bitcoin

53:01

should

53:01

be something that people start moving more into.

53:03

I mean,

53:03

the Bitcoin one is actually pretty interesting, Sean,

53:05

because I I thought about that a lot too

53:07

of, is there is there something

53:10

just like in the segmentation of how the price

53:12

went up that is impacting that. because I

53:14

still think basically, my

53:16

assumption of why that didn't happen, like,

53:18

why that

53:20

you know, scenario of high inflation and people flood into this is that

53:22

most of the price increase was actually

53:24

just driven by this, like, number go

53:27

up, you know, crazy, you know, loose monetary policy, people just

53:29

pump into speculative, you know, high risk

53:32

assets. And then it wasn't really driven by, like,

53:34

believers, like

53:36

you, who underlying were like, oh, there's really good fundamentals. The technology really

53:38

makes sense driving it up. It was mostly just

53:40

like my random friends who were like, big

53:42

coin number go up. This is great.

53:45

and then they freaked out when it went the other direction and and

53:47

pulled out, you know, interest rate rise and you pull

53:49

out. I wonder whether, like, if you

53:51

segmented it somehow of, like,

53:53

the true underlying technology believers, my

53:56

guess would be that the picture would look different, like

53:58

people that really are, like, thinking about the

53:59

technology and thinking about

54:02

the underlying policy that exists on the network, my guess would be

54:04

those people think that this is a great time

54:06

to be accumulating and buying. Yeah. I think

54:08

you're right.

54:10

I think you're right. But basically, it's just in my mind, it was like a very simple picture.

54:12

It was like, you're playing one game

54:14

and

54:14

the rules of this game are that

54:17

The bank gives you some money. It's my game of monopoly, where the bank gives

54:19

you some money. But every year, your money becomes worth

54:22

a little bit less by design. They're

54:24

trying to make it two or three percent worse

54:26

per year. But sometimes,

54:27

I think it's ten percent worse per year. Right? Or

54:29

nine percent worse per year. Right? That's the the

54:32

game is is set up that way. And hey, oh,

54:34

yo, there's this other new addition of

54:36

Monopoly that came out. or that doesn't

54:38

happen to your money. My assumption was like, oh,

54:40

people will just start to move to the new edition

54:42

because they're not gonna like when their money

54:44

becomes less valuable over

54:46

time. But I I don't think that's the message that's got across. It was basically,

54:48

Bitcoin's how you get rich or

54:50

Bitcoin's how you lose your money, and that's the narrative that

54:52

actually, like,

54:54

played out. because it was more it was more aggressive. Bitcoin will make you rich, was easier

54:56

sell to to people. Yeah. And

54:58

it was also the reason why they'll start to sell their

55:00

Bitcoin when they when they feel like, oh, pick

55:03

one's crashing. By the way, I've got one more non

55:06

agency business idea for you. What is non

55:08

services? Bam, maybe it's slightly not that much

55:10

services. More

55:12

product. Mobile. podcast and video studio. Yeah, man. Dude,

55:14

it's such a pain in the butt. Dude,

55:16

huge pain in the ass. Buy

55:18

like a

55:20

few vans. kick them out with like a pretty fire setup. Just in the

55:22

back of like a normal sized fan doesn't even have to be

55:24

an RV for like two to three

55:26

people could

55:28

fit deck it out with, like, a few good DSLR cameras that can do the

55:30

recording, like dual camera setups, so that you have, like,

55:32

a few mics hanging off the sides. And basically,

55:34

you're going post it up in a couple

55:37

of major cities. one band in each major city. As

55:39

like dope backgrounds, cool lighting, like, you know, whatever, do

55:41

the neon signs and shit in there and

55:44

rent it out

55:46

for, like, five hundred bucks for two hours to do podcast recordings

55:48

or, like, you know, a couple hundred

55:50

bucks to do, like, people going in and filming

55:52

Instagram shorts,

55:54

TikToks, shit like that. Like, if you put one in LA and

55:56

you put one in New York City, I bet you could kill it on a cash on cash return on one

55:58

of those. I just joined this gym called The Collective

56:02

in Austin. it's like this, like, fancy like

56:04

an Instagram model, and they have, like, co

56:06

working there as well. But they also

56:09

have three studios for podcast

56:12

and picture taking. Like, they just

56:14

they just really know know their audience.

56:16

And I went there and everyone looks like they're the

56:18

type of person who is, like, if you follow a

56:20

shirtless ripped guy on Instagram and they

56:22

live in Austin, they're probably a member here. And I

56:24

mean, if you catch them on bad lighting, they don't even

56:26

look that good, but I was like somehow

56:29

in that lighting, you'd look unreal. IIII

56:32

think you're making fun of me. I don't know.

56:34

I think makes a huge

56:37

difference with with Instagram models. Right? So, like, you just get

56:39

good lighting on one of those things, but you could kill it. I do

56:41

think these, like, mobile studio, though, you could crush

56:43

it. I'm looking at these

56:45

UHOL box trucks. So how

56:47

much of these cost to buy? So it looks like you could

56:49

buy a used one of these for,

56:52

like,

56:52

twenty five grand. Right?

56:54

So twenty five grand and

56:56

let's and you only have to put five down. Yeah. You put five

56:58

down. You're probably gonna need

56:59

to put another five into the kit, like,

57:01

to make the the thing work, and

57:03

you probably need do

57:05

to operating the thing. But maybe maybe you could get rid of

57:08

that, probably not. You probably have to have an operator

57:10

on-site. So I think that's the

57:12

that's the tricky part where gotta sell it as as

57:14

a membership, basically. It's gotta be a gym membership. So

57:16

it's like you can use this studio. You can just book it

57:18

when it's free, but you gotta be like a monthly member

57:21

you're, you know, if you're doing five hundred dollars a month or whatever, and you have

57:23

a studio on demand. Well, that's a

57:26

genius

57:26

idea to do it as a membership, actually. because

57:28

the thing that made me think of this is, like, in New York

57:30

NOW, there's these couple of studios where people are doing

57:33

all, like, in person podcasts. Like, there's this,

57:35

like, what the fuck media is one of

57:37

them. Yeah. They go on stream. And they're like,

57:39

they're solid. They're not great, but they're having to pay New York City

57:41

rent to, like, to do this. And so I can't imagine

57:43

the economics are that great. And if you got a truck

57:45

and you just bought it, could

57:47

go post this thing up in a parking lot and every two

57:50

hours just move to a different parking lot. And,

57:52

like, you never have to pay rent. You're paying the, you

57:54

know, like carrying cost of the of

57:56

the truck. and you're paying the whatever

57:58

five to ten grand takes you to actually We're gonna get the truck out. We're gonna call it

58:00

Muuto, the mobile studio,

58:02

Muuto, the

58:04

Muuto boys. That's we might

58:06

get a branding agency to work on your name, but yeah.

58:08

Take our our deafening

58:10

silence as feedback on

58:14

your name. Let

58:16

me ask you a question. So

58:18

Sean and I are trying to get popular on

58:20

YouTube right now with this with this

58:24

thing. And one thing that's kind of the elephant in the room when

58:26

everyone talks to you. I mean, I know Sean talks

58:28

about this constantly, is that you are

58:30

just ridiculously good looking. Do

58:33

you do you think

58:36

that this stick of yours of

58:38

having good hair and being good

58:40

looking is Is that image working for you? And what

58:42

aesthetic schtick should Sean and I

58:44

have? First

58:47

off, calling in stick is pretty hilarious to me. You know, this

58:49

chick you have. It's like, oh, it's so hot. It's a

58:52

nice thing. Yeah. This whole fucking thing. Like,

58:54

whatever you got in between your ears,

58:56

like, that's stick? Like, let's talk

58:58

about it. The platforms that are

59:00

visual, it obviously helps

59:02

to, like, when people are scrolling

59:04

through things for, like, people to stop

59:06

and say, oh, the person is, like,

59:08

attractive. Right? Like, it just I mean, when you're scrolling

59:10

to the screen, can you see attractive girls? You say

59:12

your help helps. I was I was oh, so you

59:14

agree. Was that a mean girls

59:16

request? Do you stop a mean girls request? somebody

59:18

will let you all through it through.

59:22

The fact that I knew that it was a mean girl's reference is just

59:24

as tell you are a mean girl. No.

59:26

Look. I I mean, for you guys,

59:28

you're both good looking dudes. I'm

59:30

not gonna sell you short. Sam, you got, like, a little look with the, like, fake glasses.

59:32

I don't think those have a prescription on it, so

59:34

it's, like, a little video. Why does that

59:36

really look straight fake? They're

59:40

definitely my fake dude. And then and then Sean Sean's got

59:42

the, like, you know, my favorite line that Sean ever

59:44

had is, you know, if you're not gonna be good looking,

59:46

be interesting looking, and I tell

59:49

that like, everyone that I give advice to in life. Sean's not

59:51

interesting looking. Look at this dude. Look at this dude. Look

59:54

at this dude. He's got the salty

59:56

dude. Dude,

59:58

it looks like literally every single person who shops

59:59

at, like, a generic grocery store in the

1:00:02

suburbs. What's wrong with

1:00:04

the way that's a

1:00:06

vibe. a little bit of a

1:00:08

vibe. But that's not interesting. I don't know,

1:00:10

man. I mean, I think you guys can

1:00:12

play up the whole, like, your schtick of these two guys

1:00:14

that look completely different that are, like,

1:00:16

somehow friends. Like, you guys are, like, cat dog,

1:00:18

man. You

1:00:20

remember that show back in the day. You know what we're going forward? We're going for

1:00:22

like, why are these

1:00:23

guys famous? That's what we need to do.

1:00:25

If we just get over

1:00:28

the hump, so accessible like this. These

1:00:30

guys that there's nothing special

1:00:32

about them. But that's our thing,

1:00:34

though, that

1:00:36

there's nothing I don't think you have to be that good looking on YouTube, by the way. Like,

1:00:38

you guys don't need to be like

1:00:40

models on YouTube. And if you, like, look

1:00:42

at the people that have crushed on YouTube, it's

1:00:44

not like hot dudes

1:00:46

and hot chicks on YouTube

1:00:48

necessarily. Not that you guys aren't hot. I don't want

1:00:50

you to come away. I don't want Sam big text me later

1:00:52

being like, hey, man, what you said? That was a

1:00:54

two percent because I know I'm gonna get

1:00:56

that text later tonight from Sam. Wait.

1:00:58

But you're missing that. I'm like I don't have

1:01:00

dudes do better on YouTube. I don't

1:01:02

think they do better. I don't think that's mean, I'm not on YouTube

1:01:04

yet. I'm gonna get on YouTube here soon, and I'll

1:01:06

let you know, whether we think that's

1:01:08

true. So you're saying you think you're

1:01:10

hot. Yeah. You're you

1:01:12

got this real burden you're carrying in my friend.

1:01:18

Well, like Alex from Mozy's got the thing where he wears, like, those stupid cut

1:01:20

off jeans now, and and he's just, like,

1:01:22

stoked. That nose nose strip and, like

1:01:24

The nose strip is a choice. level

1:01:26

of of being being

1:01:28

muscular. That's perfect

1:01:29

example of. You don't have to be great looking. You

1:01:31

gotta be interesting looking. Yeah, dude. He's

1:01:33

peep peacock and hardcore. And it and it's

1:01:35

He wanted just a look. It's a look,

1:01:37

man. And, like, each of you guys has a look.

1:01:39

And if you can just stick to it consistent, like, it's

1:01:41

like Chris Saco with his cowboy shirts. Like, you

1:01:44

need your thing. I've been actually been thinking about this for long

1:01:46

time. I've been needing a uniform. I tweeted

1:01:48

this out ago, I'm looking for a uniform.

1:01:50

I wanna look the same every time

1:01:52

I'm on this podcast, so I need something that

1:01:55

from here up, like a robe. He's he's

1:01:57

gotta be yeah. Maybe a robe. It's

1:01:59

gotta be signature. And

1:02:00

I'm in the market. I'm taking suggestions.

1:02:02

I'm gonna put a bounty on this. Actually, I'm gonna give a thousand dollar bounty to

1:02:05

anybody who can help me develop my the

1:02:07

the chest

1:02:08

the chest up look. That's what

1:02:11

I'm looking for. I kinda wanna see you

1:02:13

do like a traditional Indian attire for

1:02:15

it. Like, it could be kind of fire if you're

1:02:17

wearing like a dope, like, corte

1:02:19

or, like, you know, some sort of, like, Indian,

1:02:21

you know, up top. I mean, I I think I'd be kind

1:02:23

of fire. Sean Puri, it could be part of your whole,

1:02:26

like, angle with the name and stuff. That's true.

1:02:28

It did. Okay. You're you're

1:02:30

eligible for the bounty. Right now, you're

1:02:32

eligible for the bounty. I might I might throw into

1:02:34

it. I also might match it just because I think it's

1:02:36

gonna be money to see. I never heard of your first thing. So I'm grand,

1:02:38

baby. I'll throw in a thousand. I'll throw in a thousand

1:02:40

on top of it. Sam's not gonna say it it is. She's

1:02:42

before he's on the hook for

1:02:44

a thousand. Yeah. No. I'm not. I don't I don't give it up here,

1:02:46

professor. You're breaking up. Give it up here,

1:02:48

professor. This is the stupidest thing

1:02:50

ever. I'm give someone

1:02:52

a thousand dollars. They can tell tell Sean

1:02:54

what t shirt to wear.

1:02:56

Like, you have a signature look already,

1:02:58

so it's easier for you to say. Yeah. One of my

1:03:00

vessels I mean, they're like, No. You've got, like,

1:03:02

a little, like, the pretty boy thing going with

1:03:04

the, like, non perspective. grandfather.

1:03:06

He's not a grandfather type of thing. Yeah. It's

1:03:10

good. Yeah. you are gonna be, like, you're

1:03:12

gonna be a quintessential father. You're gonna have a lot of stern talks with your child there. Do you know it's coming?

1:03:14

I don't know what to say to this.

1:03:18

Thank you. Yeah.

1:03:19

Yeah. Wait. I wanna hear this before

1:03:21

you go. What is the grand plan? What

1:03:23

is the grand vision for yourself? So you went

1:03:25

from no name PE guy that

1:03:27

as we established to

1:03:29

to legendary thread boy

1:03:31

to now

1:03:31

CNBC contributor book

1:03:34

deal guy

1:03:36

author I think you're gonna be president.

1:03:38

Is that I I joke about that a lot, but

1:03:40

I genuinely believe you could become the

1:03:42

president someday if you wanted to. Do you have

1:03:44

a grand plan for yourself? What's the vision?

1:03:47

I

1:03:47

could see that being in the cards long term

1:03:49

running for public office. I don't know if president

1:03:51

is a role that you necessarily want. I

1:03:53

think it's like probably one of the hardest and worst jobs in the

1:03:55

world. Don't go to Nikita on us. Obama went in

1:03:58

looking young and then he leave, you know, leaves all

1:04:00

gray, like, looking, you know, looking rough. It's

1:04:02

like the high stress job in the

1:04:04

world. Running for governor would be I

1:04:06

don't know. That could be pretty fun. You need to be a

1:04:08

governor of a of a state. Do you know anything about

1:04:10

politics? I've never known you

1:04:12

to be did. I did my masters in public policy, dude. Oh. Yeah. So That

1:04:14

was always like what I wanted to do. I mean, that's a class

1:04:16

on basket weaving. Like, that doesn't like, what it like,

1:04:18

you know what I mean? You think the people that are serving

1:04:20

in public

1:04:22

office today a lot about politics? It's like what is it's sort of like the

1:04:24

novel thing of like, you don't read a business book

1:04:26

to no business. Like, there's no such thing

1:04:28

as politics. It's like, you know, are you a

1:04:30

reasonable thinker?

1:04:32

you have the ability to change your mind, which right now politicians do

1:04:34

not. And can you inspire people

1:04:36

and get people to move on things? Which

1:04:38

party would you be? I don't even know. I'm

1:04:42

an independent man. So, I mean, I've I've voted democrat. I've

1:04:44

voted Republican in prior elections. So I actually I

1:04:46

actually don't know what party I've

1:04:49

got. I'm I'm hoping that a third party rises over

1:04:51

the next twenty years before I actually go do

1:04:53

this because I hate the direction that,

1:04:55

you know, like polar politics

1:04:58

has gone. You know, it's just like the loudest minority

1:05:00

on each other. I could see you being a good politician because you

1:05:02

pretty much never take a stand on anything kind of

1:05:04

like what you just did. You're like, I I always

1:05:06

call it. I'm like, your PC, like the rock,

1:05:08

man. You never say anything inappropriate.

1:05:10

Like, you you you you are

1:05:12

like Dude, beloved, like the rock.

1:05:15

Well, yes. But He never takes a state on anything. He's always he

1:05:17

hedges everything he says. You you could be

1:05:20

beautiful for a politician. Alright. Well, I'm counting

1:05:22

on your fundraising for sports

1:05:24

now. Always