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Full terms at mintmobile.com. Hello!

1:31

And welcome to my time

1:34

capture. My.

1:39

Name's Mike them to and Stevens and

1:41

has been for quite a long time

1:44

and on the hosted by Time Capture

1:46

where people tell me find things from

1:48

their life that they wish they had

1:50

in a time capsule something they could

1:52

revisit again they before things that they

1:54

cherish a one thing that big like

1:56

to forget forever. My guest in this

1:58

episode is to comedian writer present. producer

2:00

and broadcaster and I think he can probably

2:02

play the accordion and tap dance as well

2:05

John Holmes John has

2:07

had an amazing career starting out

2:09

in BBC Radio comedy with his

2:12

debut comedy series Grievous Bodily Radio

2:14

he was also co-presented with John

2:16

and Andy show on Power FM

2:18

with Andy Hurst which won him

2:20

its first gold Sony Radio Academy

2:22

Award his second came through

2:24

the BBC comedy Dead Ringers which he

2:27

co-created he worked as a

2:29

broadcaster on Virgin Radio eventually

2:31

being fired following a number of

2:33

controversial stuffs which he talks

2:35

about in this podcast meanwhile on Radio 4

2:37

he was writing and appearing in the Now

2:39

Show the 99p challenge where he first

2:42

worked with the Mando Iannucci he

2:45

also worked with the Mando on Gash on Channel 4

2:48

and Time Trumpet on BBC 2 and

2:51

in 2006 he received his sixth Sony

2:53

Award for his work

2:55

on Radio 4's Abando Iannucci's Charm

2:57

Offensive John has been the presenter

3:00

on LBC he's been a regular

3:02

contributor to Lucentz worked on Radio

3:04

2 BBC Radio 6 music

3:06

and fronted his own BBC Radio 1

3:08

show for six years he replaced

3:11

Danny Wallace as a presenter on

3:13

XFM and then worked on talk

3:16

radio before returning to the BBC

3:18

where since 2019 he's produced a

3:20

soundscape satire The Skewer on

3:23

telly he co-wrote and appeared in

3:25

Unwrapped, Crack a Nori on Dave

3:27

he wrote The Impression Show and

3:29

co-wrote Horrible Histories for BBC 1

3:31

for which he won two BAFTAs he

3:34

presented the fifth series of the 11 o'clock show on

3:36

Channel 4 and wrote for

3:38

the award-winning Channel 4 show V

3:40

Graham Norton he's written a

3:42

number of books of course just to keep

3:45

himself occupied and a comedy memoir a portrait

3:47

of an idiot as a young man so

3:49

as you can tell John likes to keep

3:52

busy and as a result I was delighted

3:54

when he found time to talk to me

3:56

about the five things from his very full

3:58

life that he'd like to have I hope

4:01

you enjoy our chat. So

4:08

John, do you seem to have been around in

4:11

so many different things that I like over so

4:13

many years now? Is it just that you've lit

4:15

around or can people not bear working with you

4:17

more than once? I think that's probably what it

4:19

is. Although, you know, you have to remember that

4:22

there are other John Holmes' right? So where you

4:24

see my name flit, it may not be me,

4:26

Mike, right? So Gary Lineker's

4:28

agent is called John Holmes, same spelling

4:30

as me, right? Right. There

4:33

was a pornographic gentleman star of

4:35

the 1970s. That'll be

4:37

it. And I think it's mostly his work you're

4:39

watching, isn't it? Clearly.

4:42

The great John Holmes. I've shaved my mustache

4:44

off for this. Normally,

4:47

I see you in a boiler suit with

4:50

a tool bag. I mean, initially, yes.

4:52

But then second scene, not so much.

4:56

Back in one of my former flitting around

4:58

jobs, I used to present a lot of

5:00

radio, but specifically, when I did the Breakfast

5:03

Show on XFM in London, right? Yeah.

5:06

That was one of those quite high profile things where they

5:08

send you to interview Hollywood stars who

5:10

are on the merry-go-round of promotion. So

5:12

you get to one day it's Bruce

5:14

Willis, the next is Emma Stone, Jennifer

5:16

Lawrence, you know, all sorts of whatever.

5:18

Amazing. Absolutely incredible. It's such a weird

5:20

thing because you are there in a

5:22

suite at the Savoy or wherever. This

5:24

is where they do them, right? And

5:27

you are the next presenter in line

5:29

and they're doing this all day for

5:31

days and every TV show or radio

5:33

show is queuing up in a

5:35

corridor outside a suite to get their seven

5:38

minutes with the star. And

5:40

you're specifically told what you can and can't say and all

5:42

this kind of stuff. You've got to talk about the film

5:44

and all this kind of stuff. And it's very hard to

5:46

build up a rapport with someone in those sort of couple

5:48

minutes. Yeah. But what I would

5:50

find is I'd go in, right? And I'd say, you

5:52

know, the PR would sort of say, oh, OK, you

5:54

know, Mr. Willis or whatever. This

5:57

is John. He's from XFM. So you'd

5:59

sit down. And I would

6:01

always sort of say, oh, really nice to meet you.

6:03

My name is John Holmes And if they were American

6:05

of a certain age, they would always go. Sorry What

6:08

like the porn star and it was a way of

6:10

breaking the ice. That's a very good intro, isn't it?

6:12

Yeah, and you could have tell their age couldn't you

6:14

from that? You can always judge it. Yeah Yeah, have

6:16

you say hang on a second. It says here on

6:19

your CV 27 I don't think

6:21

so What

6:25

a strange job but lovely stuff you have done

6:27

some lovely stuff It's really nice as

6:29

now I think when you get to the point where you go

6:31

Well, I don't care if anybody noticed it, but

6:33

I know I did it That's

6:36

the story of my entire career. Nobody noticed it.

6:38

Maybe you did Mostly I do

6:40

it for my own amusement. Yes. I mean, I suppose when

6:42

you look back at it, which I

6:45

don't like to do but let's There

6:47

are there's a lot of wits. I mean it's

6:49

all related stuff, you know It's all sort of

6:51

within the zone of certainly broadcasting. Yeah and comedy

6:54

and so on so forth But

6:56

yeah, I you know, I started out writing as

6:58

many of us do. Mm-hmm And

7:00

and just found that it was it's all

7:02

connected. Isn't it writing performing presenting producing? It's

7:04

all the same sort of thing Yeah, it

7:06

all comes under one big hat

7:09

if you start looking at a list of things And

7:12

now I forget you see the moment I've

7:15

done something, you know, I mean I somebody

7:17

sent me a sketch show on YouTube Because

7:20

they'd watched it from years ago. Yeah with my

7:22

name in the crest. I completely forgot not even

7:24

worked Remember

7:26

doing that I'm convinced that's what

7:28

Twitter's for is that people throw things

7:30

at you and you go what? When

7:33

was it? Oh god. Yeah, that's right. Yeah,

7:35

so how did you fall in love with

7:37

radio then? Well, I suppose it was it

7:39

was as a child And

7:42

I just I liked the worlds it created and

7:44

I came to it just sort of it was

7:46

very cliche sort of away I suppose first of

7:48

all, I just remember having

7:50

a radio, you know the built-in cassette

7:53

Recorder that's right kids Google

7:55

it etc. And you know

7:57

just listening to Radio

8:00

One and a bit of local radio, I suppose,

8:02

and just hearing just this world that was there

8:04

of these disembodied voices and just what you could

8:06

do with it. And then the more I realised

8:09

you could be creative with it, I

8:11

started getting into, you know, comedy

8:13

albums. So, I mean, not the 9

8:15

o'clock news when I was a kid, you know, they

8:18

had an album and I bought that was one of

8:20

the first records I bought with a record token from

8:22

my Nana. I just sort of fell

8:24

into this rabbit hole of people fiddling with audio and

8:26

the interesting things you could do with it. And then

8:28

my mum was a nurse back

8:30

then and long since she retired now, but and

8:32

she said, oh, there's a there's a hospital radio

8:35

station, the hospital I work in. I was like,

8:37

is there? What do they do? She went, well,

8:39

I don't really know. Why don't

8:41

you go and get into you like this stuff, go and

8:43

have a word. So I went along and, you know, I

8:45

went along as like a 15 year old

8:47

kid. She was going on. Everyone else was sort

8:49

of retired people, you know, doing it as a

8:51

bit of a hobby. They were like, what are

8:53

you doing here? And I was like, well, I'm

8:56

sort of quite into and they sort of say,

8:58

oh, OK. First thing you have to do is

9:00

get around the wards, getting requests from nearly dead

9:02

people. What would you like for your

9:04

last I mean, for your next song? Exactly.

9:06

And of course, you can't you know, there

9:08

are all those rules where you can't play

9:10

any records that allude to death.

9:12

That Stairway to Heaven was right. That's

9:17

what radio will do to you, though, isn't it?

9:19

If you're doing that live presenting, when you've done

9:21

a lot of I think that's an amazing thing

9:24

to do to just sit in front of a

9:26

microphone and start talking. I mean, I've had Ken

9:28

Bruce on this podcast and he's sort of in

9:30

a way the master of it because he never

9:32

seems to prepare at all. Yeah. And but he's

9:34

I mean, the way he and Terry Wogan used

9:37

to do it as well is use the listener

9:39

as content and, you know, they're in

9:42

your family as well. You're listening family and you're the fall

9:44

as well. Exactly. So they will

9:46

mock him or whatever. You know, and

9:48

he's an absolutely master of

9:50

that particular game. And I admire that enormously.

9:52

Just just go I'll turn up and I

9:54

trust myself and the listeners to make this

9:56

work. Whereas I used to when I was

9:58

doing live radio. comedy writer, I

10:01

write jokes and features and the

10:03

games we would play on

10:05

air, I'd construct to usually take the piss

10:07

out of existing radio formats. People say the

10:10

best form of improvisation is one you've already

10:12

worked out. I'm a big believer in the

10:14

power of editing. Yep,

10:17

I'm going to cut that

10:19

bit out. Oh Jon,

10:21

so we're going to talk, hopefully, about some things

10:23

that you've chosen that you'd like to have in

10:25

a time capsule from your life. Yeah, when I

10:27

sat down to think about it, which I did

10:30

do, I'm not improvising all the way. No,

10:32

I did and I found it quite difficult because

10:34

you start to think, well, it shouldn't be tripe

10:36

things, or should it be significant things? Well,

10:39

it could be anything, couldn't it? And then

10:41

you start, well, there must be hundreds, and then you've got to

10:43

whittle it down and so on and so forth. And

10:46

so, I mean, I'll start, if you

10:48

like, with wildlife. Right. And

10:50

this is just because I, another,

10:52

if you like, string to my

10:55

meagre bow over the

10:57

years is I've done a lot of travel writing. So

10:59

I've been very lucky going

11:01

off and doing really quite weird stuff that a lot of

11:03

people wouldn't get a chance to do in

11:06

order to write about it for, you know, newspapers or

11:08

whatever. And one of the things

11:10

I found myself doing was, by accident really,

11:12

was wildlife photography. I always liked

11:14

photography. I think I did a photography O level.

11:17

So I was always into it and just,

11:19

I liked photography, but I'd never particularly gone

11:21

out with lenses, shall we say, in order

11:23

to, you know, do this properly. And I

11:26

went on, one of my early assignments as

11:28

a travel writer was the

11:30

editor said, could you, would you like

11:32

to go to the wetlands of Brazil,

11:34

the Pantanar, to see if you can

11:37

find jaguars? Oh my God. With

11:40

a guide. And I was like, yeah. So

11:43

I said, well, there's this guy called Paul and

11:45

he's, he's a bit notorious in the industry. He

11:48

takes no prisoners at all. Right. And

11:50

he's a, you know, he, he's a good friend now. And

11:54

terrifying man. If you don't

11:56

know how he operates. And I didn't. And so

11:58

I met him. coming on

12:00

this trip, what are you doing? And I was like,

12:02

yeah, I am. He said, because I'm a photography guy,

12:04

that's what I do. So you've got all the stuff.

12:07

And I was like, no, I don't have any stuff.

12:09

And he's like, oh, and

12:12

they put me in touch to hire some equipment, right? But

12:14

lens is very expensive, right? So he gave me

12:16

this number. And I spoke to these

12:19

guys. And they said, oh, you need if you're going

12:21

off to the wetlands of Brazil with Paul, what you're

12:23

going to need is this lens. All right, so we'll

12:25

deliver it to you, to your house. I

12:28

got this lens. And it was, I kid you

12:30

not, but the size of a stinger missile. I mean,

12:32

it was, I wouldn't

12:34

fit in any bags. I had to carry it to

12:37

the sand luggage separately in a special, special bag. It

12:40

was so heavy as well. I was like,

12:42

what? And they'd also said, I've got to

12:44

bring this monopod. So like a tripod, but

12:46

one leg, camera goes on the top, it

12:49

holds the camera still for long exposure. Right.

12:51

Yeah. And the point was we were going

12:53

out and in boats, tiny, like

12:55

six person boats

12:58

on the tributary of the Amazon in

13:00

order to try and photograph Jaguar absolutely in

13:02

the wild. No crocodiles or anything, nothing to

13:05

worry about. A caiman. A lot of caiman.

13:08

Bullet ants, which

13:10

can give you the worst, most painful

13:12

bite. On the first night, I mean, this

13:15

is me, I'm saying I want to keep wildlife, perhaps the

13:17

sum I don't. First night

13:19

I got there, the Brazilian wandering spider is

13:21

probably one of the most poisonous spiders in

13:23

the world. We'd driven for miles on tracks and,

13:25

you know, just ridiculous right in the jungle,

13:27

on the edge of this river. There was a

13:29

forest fire you could see on the horizon.

13:32

And the guy from the lodge who was

13:34

staying in, which is just a rudimentary shacks

13:36

basically just said, look, what's going to happen

13:38

is that over the next few days, all

13:40

of the wildlife is going to

13:42

come this way to the river because of the

13:45

forest fire. Yeah. And you've got to bear in

13:47

mind that that includes everything

13:49

from snakes to

13:51

insects to large creatures

13:54

to the very poisonous spider that we

13:56

have down here. So night one with

13:58

my monopod, I sat under my mosquito

14:00

net in my shack, holding it

14:03

like Wilson in Dad's Army or something.

14:05

And I was sort of, you know,

14:07

sitting on my bed like that, looking,

14:09

just constantly scanning the room in case

14:11

I saw a Brazilian wandering spider. Not

14:13

surprised. Ridiculous. No. But we

14:15

were out on these boats, and the first thing

14:17

I did was, of course, try, I did all

14:19

this equipment, and I was trying to attach the

14:22

monopod to the side of the camera. And I

14:24

clunked it by accident. There's about five of us

14:26

in this boat, including psychopath Paul, who

14:28

I'd not met before this moment. And it

14:30

clunked on the side of the boat, which, you

14:32

know, scared an otter or something that we were

14:35

trying to photograph, giant river otters. And

14:37

Paul went mad at me. He shouted and screamed,

14:39

why have you brought that? Why are you doing

14:41

that? And I was like, because you

14:43

told me to bloody bring it, didn't you?

14:45

Like, it's a row of sort of nonsense.

14:47

Anyway, he's become a fantastic friend. I've traveled

14:49

with him many times, and he's had a

14:51

quiet taste. But what he did do was

14:53

throw me into wildlife, literally at a deep

14:55

end at one point. But at this point,

14:57

when we were there, we were out for

14:59

nine hours in this boat with this

15:02

kit, with the sun beating down and

15:04

liberal use of sun lotion, waiting,

15:06

just waiting and watching in case a janker

15:09

were turned up. And then

15:11

it did. And so it made it all worth it

15:13

because the photographs were incredible with that lens. And,

15:16

you know, just that they came down to drink, family

15:18

with cubs, just in the water.

15:20

And it was the first time you felt

15:22

like you were out of human territory and

15:25

you had completely gone into what is nature, right?

15:27

Into wildlife and animal territory. And you were the

15:30

guest, not the other way around. You see what

15:32

I mean? Not a zoo or anything like that.

15:34

And my jaw dropped and I was suddenly, it

15:37

was a clary moment where I was

15:39

just like, I could sort of hear this sound

15:41

of, wow, this is

15:43

out there in the world, this stuff. So

15:45

that was the first thing I'd done. And

15:47

then since then, I've gone to do gorillas

15:49

and whales. Whales? Whales.

15:52

Have you swum in the water with whales?

15:54

Yeah, so off the top of Sri Lanka

15:56

in about February, March, there's

15:58

a place called Trimkomalee. And it's

16:01

a spawning ground for sperm whales. Right.

16:03

The time of year when they feel

16:05

appropriately named, of course. Very much so.

16:09

But if you know where you're going

16:11

and you go with the right guide

16:13

who are sort of specialist biological experts

16:15

who study them, two

16:17

people are allowed in the water with them at once,

16:19

but no scuba gear because the bubbles will freak them

16:21

out. So it's literally a pair of fins and

16:24

a snorkel. Amazing. And they take you out

16:26

there and the guide is able to

16:28

track them. He'll sort of say, right, okay, over

16:31

there, there's a sperm whale. I can

16:33

tell you the way they're swimming. And what I'm going

16:35

to do is I'm going to drop you in the water here

16:37

and go. So the motor is not going to freak them out.

16:39

And you've got a tread water. And if

16:41

you wait, you'll be in their path. Oh, wow.

16:43

And I was like, and now we are, I'm

16:46

going to say 20 miles out to sea.

16:48

And the bit they come to is the

16:51

deepest part. So you're over a trench. Yeah.

16:53

Right. So it's a long way down.

16:55

And then the boat disappears. So

16:57

you can't see the boat. Because

17:00

the swell of the waves and such. And you're, you

17:03

know, you've got your head in the water. It's how

17:05

people get lost at sea so easily. And that's all

17:07

that was going through my mind, obviously. And I was

17:09

like, oh, God. But then the moment one

17:11

of these whales turns up, because you can hear them. You can

17:13

hear them. You put your head in the water. You can hear

17:15

the whale song. And then they start,

17:18

because they know you're there, they're clicking to bounce the

17:20

echo stuff off you to work out what you are.

17:22

And then there they are. And you're in the middle

17:24

of them. And at one point, you know, there was

17:27

six or seven with babies and stuff just sort

17:29

of around. They could have stopped to look at

17:31

you. Well, yes, they did. They swim around you

17:33

because they're kind of curious. Amazing. Amazing.

17:36

And I got a hydrophone. I was doing some

17:38

underwater recording as well. That was amazing.

17:41

They throw you in and then they sort of come and get

17:43

you out of the water again when the whales have done their

17:45

thing. And sort of cycled off board or whatever. And

17:47

you're exhausted at this point, of course, because you've

17:50

been treading water for the half an hour. But

17:52

anyway, so you get, got dragged into the boat.

17:54

And a few hours later with sort of with

17:56

this microphone. And I said, oh, I can hear,

17:58

I can hear whale song that I'm recording. And

18:01

the guy said, let me have a listen, put the headphones on. And

18:03

he was like, that's not a sperm whale. That's

18:05

the song of a blue whale. I mean,

18:07

what? And blue whale being the biggest

18:09

animal on the planet. And I was like, really? And

18:12

he was like looking, scanning the horizon. And

18:15

after a few minutes, he said, it's getting louder. Sure

18:18

enough to tell tell spur of the water quite

18:20

some distance off. And he went, that's a blue

18:22

whale. Do you want to see a blue whale?

18:24

And I'm like, you are kicking your wads now?

18:27

And he's like, yeah, okay. I'll drop you. I

18:29

know where it's going. Same, same idea. In

18:31

the water you go and just wait. So me

18:33

and the guy I was guiding with, as it

18:35

were, got in the water. And

18:38

he, being a photographer type, sort of, even though

18:40

he's supposed to stay with each other, sort of

18:42

decided to swim over there to try and get

18:44

some sort of shot. I probably didn't want you

18:46

to mess it up. Well, exactly. So

18:48

I was sort of left there. And then I just remember

18:51

my head was underwater and it's obviously you're in the deep

18:53

blue. So you can't, there was nothing to grasp if you

18:55

saw what I mean with your eyes, because you

18:57

don't even know which way is up and down if

18:59

you go under. It's too confusing because there's nothing. And

19:02

then suddenly out of nowhere, a blue

19:04

whale, the size of a submarine

19:06

just came swimming towards me. And

19:09

I was close enough to

19:11

just put my hand on the side. Oh

19:14

my God. And it was fish all over

19:16

it feeding from it. And its eye was, you know,

19:18

bigger than me. And it was just, and the only

19:20

thing I went straight past it, and I was just

19:22

like gobsmacked. And I was like, well, I know what

19:24

I'm going to do. I'm going to follow

19:26

it. So I sort

19:29

of tried, obviously, what the hell am I thinking?

19:31

I'm a tiny little man at the best of

19:33

times. But put me up against the

19:35

blue whale, Mike. So, you know, the perspective's all wrong.

19:38

Big John Holmes doesn't apply anymore. Yeah,

19:40

yeah. It hadn't watched any 70s porn.

19:43

It turned out, I had no idea. Then

19:45

I suddenly realised the mistake I'd made was

19:47

that, of course, it was going to dive,

19:49

right? Of course it was, because they only

19:51

come up to the surface for a certain amount of time. And

19:54

then they dive back into the deep blue. And

19:56

then you think, hang on a minute. What

19:58

happens now is that it's... tail comes

20:01

out of the water until they're vertical

20:03

to dive down. And of course, when

20:05

a blue whale's tail comes out of

20:08

the water, it's basically the size of

20:10

the shard. It's like it's a building.

20:13

And of course, all the water pours off its

20:15

fin like Niagara Falls. And you suddenly

20:17

go, hang on a minute. This is the end,

20:19

isn't it? Because if that tail comes down or I get under that

20:22

panic ensues. Of course. And

20:24

you feel almost as if you're going to be dragged down with it.

20:27

Totally. Totally all of that. And I

20:29

was absolutely terrified. And then suddenly you realize you're

20:31

exhausted because you swam about a kilometer. But

20:33

it did that. The tail came out and

20:36

I was out of the way. And

20:38

actually, when it went into the water, it did it

20:40

so smoothly. And I was just like, what a thing.

20:43

Then I looked around, no sign of the boat, no

20:46

sign of land, just choppy water.

20:48

And I was like, well, I'm going to

20:50

die now. But it was

20:52

worth it. It was worth it. The guy in

20:54

the boat, of course, knew where I was at all times and was

20:56

tracking my entire life. And he just came

20:58

over and just hauled me back in. But

21:01

again, it's basically, to get back to

21:03

the point, it's wildlife experiences, I think,

21:06

that I would encourage anybody given the

21:08

chance to do. You can go

21:10

and meet wildlife on its own terms. It's

21:13

pretty incredible. Yeah. That

21:15

said, about two weeks ago, rats in the garage

21:17

wasn't keen on those, if I'm going to be

21:19

honest with you. So it's not all wildlife. I

21:21

had to get a man round. It's

21:24

really interesting how when you say

21:26

a subject at the beginning and you choose

21:28

the subject of wildlife, I think everybody

21:30

would say, well, we all know that. What's

21:32

personal about that? But it's so fantastic

21:35

to hear those personal stories that makes

21:37

it a very personal thing for you.

21:39

It does. It really does. And

21:41

I think the older I've got,

21:43

the more I have thrown caution to the wind.

21:46

It's the opposite way around. I'm just going, oh,

21:48

adventure-y thing. Yeah, I'll go and do. I'll

21:50

go and try that. I mean, I won't

21:52

bore you with it. But you know, very

21:54

near-death experience, whitewater rafting in

21:56

Costa Rica. I was hospitalized

21:58

in Puerto Rico. or an

22:01

island off it by,

22:03

again, this was snorkelling,

22:05

but a wave threw me into rocks that

22:08

were covered in

22:11

sea urchins, black, spiny sea urchins. And

22:13

I just had them, you know, just

22:15

impaled on them. And

22:17

I didn't know if they were poisonous. I

22:19

was like, what? Clambered out, making it worse,

22:21

of course, on these rocks, which was way

22:24

off the beach. There was no one on the beach.

22:26

I was like, what am I gonna do? And I

22:28

thought, well, if it's poisonous, you know, so I didn't panic

22:30

exactly, but you sort of go, ahh,

22:32

bit of shock, jump back

22:34

in, talk to the beach and met

22:37

by a security guard as I crawled up the

22:39

beach. You know, you know that how James Bond

22:41

comes out of the sea? Imagine

22:43

the very opposite of that. Yes. Most undigidly

22:45

fine thing you've ever seen of

22:48

a sort of impaled bloodied man crawling up

22:50

the sand. And he just took one look

22:52

at me and he went, hospital. He drove

22:54

me into a jeep, drove

22:57

me across the island to this. And on the way there, he was

22:59

trying to keep me awake. He said, John,

23:01

you know, I'm a security guard here now,

23:03

but I was a, I'm forced in Vietnam. You

23:05

know, it's American, you know, I'm forced in

23:07

Vietnam. Then they got to hospitals and

23:09

the guy, because they do this, they pull the things

23:11

out of you betweezers. That's all they can do. You

23:14

sit as they pull out sea urchins.

23:16

And the guy said to me, he

23:19

said, John, if you want

23:21

to scream, that's fine by me. I

23:23

fair share a screaming in the jungle.

23:25

And then the doctor

23:28

said, I can't get all of

23:30

these out because they just snap. They're so brittle. That's

23:32

not what it wasn't his first rodeo. He'd seen this

23:34

before. He was like, so what's going to happen now

23:36

is when you're flying home and I was like about

23:38

four hours from now, okay, I'm going to bandage you

23:40

all up on your arm and your leg. But he

23:42

said, the thing

23:44

is, it's still alive in your arm. It's

23:47

organic material. They, it's not just, it's

23:50

alive. It's an animal and it's in your arm.

23:52

I can't get it out. But what happened is

23:54

your body over the next month or so will

23:56

reject it and dissolve it and throw

23:58

it out. You won't even notice. gone. But when

24:00

you get back to the UK, just

24:03

go to your GP and just check it out.

24:05

But all that was in my mind was these

24:07

things are alive because that's what he kept telling

24:09

me. And I flew back via the States. And

24:11

of course, when you get to the airport, there's

24:13

a big sign that says, do not bring live

24:16

animals into the country. And I'm thinking, yeah, if

24:18

he asks me what's under the bandage, I'm just going to say I'll

24:20

burn it on a kettle or something. I'm not going to... There's

24:23

no way I'm going to tell this story. Oh,

24:26

brilliant. Okay, right. Well,

24:28

let's put wildlife into the time capsule

24:30

for you then. Okay, that's the first thing,

24:32

Jon. So what's number two? Well,

24:34

it's sort of related. Okay,

24:37

so wildlife is the specifics of that.

24:39

But I also want to put in

24:42

just a notion of travel. Right.

24:44

And I'm not talking about southeastern trains because

24:46

they are the bane of my life. I'm

24:50

in Tumbridge Wells. I know exactly what you mean. Oh,

24:52

there you go. You know my pain. You know exactly.

24:54

Well, I'm down in Canterbury, right? Right. You

24:57

know, you're in the posh end. Yeah, we get

24:59

lovely trains. Porters and men

25:01

saying, would you like another cocktail? Would

25:03

you like another tiffin on the... I

25:05

don't even know what tiffin is, but

25:07

I'm sure they do it in Tumbridge

25:09

Wells. But yeah, but travel as a

25:11

notion, I think one should

25:13

attempt to do it where possible. And

25:15

I know there's a lot

25:18

of talk, rightly so, about the use of

25:20

flying and airplanes and carbon footprints and all

25:22

of that needs to be, you

25:24

know. But the notion of travel, of

25:27

seeing the world as much as you

25:29

can, of experiencing different cultures and different

25:31

people, I think is incredibly important. Yeah.

25:34

And so again, I've been fairly lucky enough to do.

25:36

You know, one of the best travel experiences I ever

25:38

had was I was supposed to go diving somewhere and

25:41

the weather was too bad. Right. So I sort of

25:43

went from walking on the beach to a shack and

25:46

just bumped into this guy who is

25:49

in his 80s and he was having a glass of rum.

25:52

So I sat down and joined him and spent

25:54

the afternoon with him. And he'd never left this

25:56

island, tiny little island, not even one of the

25:58

famous ones, a little one. And you think, I

26:00

wouldn't... never have met your known your story, you

26:02

know, apart from the circumstances allowing that to happen.

26:04

And that was the most enriching part of all

26:06

of it. Because you're just chatting to

26:09

a local and they know nothing other than that

26:11

island, fishermen for years, you know, that's what he

26:13

did. It's a lovely thing, isn't it, to realise

26:15

that the world that you regard as normal is

26:17

not normal. Yeah, yeah, it's

26:19

precisely that. Yeah, you know, I like a

26:22

standard beach holiday as much as anyone

26:24

probably does. But I also like the

26:26

stuff where you just go out and

26:29

not exactly risk your life. I'm not suggesting

26:31

anyone does that. You don't know what

26:33

you're going to

26:35

discover find meat. And that doesn't have to be,

26:38

as you say, it doesn't have to be danger.

26:40

It can just be have a look around the

26:42

corner. But a lot of people go

26:44

on holiday and don't do that at all. People

26:46

don't leave the resorts today. A lot of the time. And

26:49

you could be anywhere I often think you know what

26:51

the point, okay, you might just want to read a

26:53

book and learn or some bit and that's fine too.

26:56

But you know, if you go somewhere that's

26:58

got its own culture, immerse yourself in it

27:00

for at least a day, you know, just go for

27:02

a walk. Just go and see what's there. It can

27:04

be the best meal you've ever eaten. Yeah, you know,

27:06

you can meet the friendliest people you've ever met. What's

27:09

that? It's a cliche, isn't it? What's the line? You

27:11

could go away with nothing but come back much richer.

27:13

Right. You know what I mean? It's like, you know,

27:15

you can do the cheapest backpacking thing you want, but

27:17

you will come back as more enriched as a person.

27:20

So did you travel much as a child? No,

27:23

I think that's what I sort of got like

27:25

it more now as a child, my the travelling

27:27

consisted of two directions. So I grew up

27:29

in the Midlands working class family, dad was

27:32

a builder, mum was a nurse. And if

27:34

we turned right out of

27:36

the drive, we went to

27:38

North Wales. If we turned left,

27:40

we went to Norfolk. And that was it. The Neaton

27:42

where I grew up is right in the middle of

27:44

the country, like the very centre of

27:46

the country, the furthest point away from the sea on

27:49

all sides. Yeah, it's a little place called Meriden. They've

27:51

got stone on the village screen to commemorate the fact

27:53

that it's equal distance. I hope there's

27:55

a boarding house there called Seabew. There

28:00

was a house, there were two houses in the Neaton growing up

28:02

that used to confuse me on my way to walking to school.

28:04

Terrorist houses, both facing the same way, exactly the

28:06

same, one was called Eastview, one was called Westview,

28:09

and I was like, oh come on. But

28:11

yeah, I, but we went camping. So

28:14

my dad, we had a tent, my early memories, so

28:16

just my dad trying to put the tent up in varying

28:19

degrees of school, the canvas flapping about as

28:21

I sort of sat in the car, refusing

28:23

to go out there because it was, my

28:26

first, the whole day abroad was, I was

28:28

13. It was a

28:30

school trip, a school scheme

28:32

trip that my parents were saved up

28:34

for and the class all went on this scheme trip

28:36

for a week. And that was amazing, Switzerland, first time

28:38

I'd been on the plane. Absolutely jaw-dropping.

28:41

And then the year after I think we

28:43

went family all day to Greece, and my

28:45

mum, when we arrived, me

28:47

and my sister were so excited at the prospect, there

28:50

was a pool on the roof, Mike, can you imagine? You

28:52

don't get that in Barmouth. No, no, there was

28:55

a pool on the roof. We went right up

28:57

to the top when we arrived in the afternoon,

28:59

all excited to get in the pool. And

29:01

my mum ordered some drinks and we were

29:04

on one of those, they had those swinging

29:06

chairs. We must have already had one drink because

29:08

there was a glass table with all

29:10

glasses on it. And

29:12

my mum swung a bit too hard and kicked the whole

29:14

lot into the pool, which they then

29:16

drained and closed for their entire trip. But

29:21

it is an amazing thing, isn't it? The first time

29:23

you experience that getting off a plane

29:25

or arriving in a country like that and the

29:27

door opens and you go, I've never felt heat

29:29

like this. Actually, you never get used to it,

29:32

do you? If you do it, and

29:34

it's like someone throws a warm blanket over you

29:36

and it's like, well, we don't have this in

29:38

Canterbury or Tumbridge. Well, this is interesting. And

29:41

it's the same if you go to a cold place, of course,

29:44

if you step out in the, I once went to be

29:47

on the Arctic Circle in Alaska, you know, it's

29:49

like minus 40 up there in the winter.

29:52

That's how cold it is. They don't have roads in

29:54

Alaska, which is something I didn't realise

29:56

because they fly everywhere. But instead

29:58

of cars in drives, people... have Cessna's little

30:01

twin engine and they just

30:03

fly them from town to town. With skis on the

30:05

bottom. With skis on the bottom.

30:07

The capital city doesn't have roads leading to

30:09

it. Well

30:11

of course, I mean it's just miles and miles of

30:13

tundra. Yeah it is and they do it all by

30:15

water and then in the winter when it goes down

30:17

to minus 40 all of the

30:19

rivers become navigable ice roads.

30:22

So everybody travels then on

30:25

what rivers, nature's roads right, are just driving

30:27

over the ice on snowplows and all sorts

30:29

of incredible places. Yeah absolutely. So when you

30:32

say that clearly then you've really caught that

30:34

travel bug because if you're saying I've been

30:36

to Peru, I went to the Brazil, I've

30:38

been to the Arctic Circle, where

30:41

have you not been that you'd like to go? Oh

30:43

that's a very good question. I mean so many places

30:45

I mean you know because of all the places in

30:47

the world but I'm quite into

30:49

archaeology, I'm quite into sort of like

30:51

the pyramids or you know

30:53

Machu Picchu which again, the cliche sort of student

30:55

gap year kind of place isn't it but never

30:57

been there and I'd

30:59

quite like to do that and ditto there

31:01

are various old temples in deserts you

31:04

know in Saudi Arabia or Petra.

31:07

And I did the pyramids once though years

31:09

ago because I'm very into tunnels and underground

31:12

stuff and secret weird traps. I don't know

31:14

why, where does this come from? But I'm

31:16

quite interested, I've got a lot of books

31:18

on Egyptology and I'm quite fascinated

31:20

by the secrets of

31:22

the pyramids and an idea that might be

31:25

hidden chambers and all that stuff. Well there

31:27

clearly still are, that's the amazing thing is

31:29

after all this time so many people desperately

31:31

trying to raid them over centuries and centuries

31:34

and centuries and still they

31:36

find a complete tomb. It's

31:38

amazing. I know I just absolutely I mean went to

31:40

see Tomb and Carmen's tomb out there as well which

31:44

you know the story of how that was found the

31:46

idea of them digging and then finding these steps

31:49

going down and finding sealed too. What?

31:52

With all these treasures in and

31:54

in the pyramid I was again very lucky that I

31:56

went in very early in the morning so it wasn't

31:58

full of tourists. seven of us.

32:01

All that goes on in your head, if you ever

32:03

get the chance to go to the Great Pyramids and

32:05

get in there, because obviously there are tunnels and you

32:07

have to duck down, even I have to crouch a

32:09

little bit. All that's going through your

32:11

head the whole time is the theme from Indiana

32:13

Jones. That's all that is in your head the

32:15

whole time you're in there. In the main chamber,

32:17

the Queen's Chamber, apart from all the mysterious tiny

32:19

little tunnels that go off it, that they've sent

32:21

robots down and found doors, don't know what's on

32:24

the other side, all of this stuff is still

32:26

in there. And the fact that the technology they

32:28

used to build it, when you see it up

32:30

close, the stones fit so closely and

32:32

tightly together. But you think, how have

32:34

you done that with rudimentary? It's

32:36

just absolutely amazing. But inside the Queen's

32:38

Chamber, the coffin's long gone, if you

32:41

like, but there's a granite sarcophagus that's

32:43

hewn, it's like red granite, but sort

32:45

of hewn out of the floor, really,

32:47

and then the main coffin was in

32:49

it. And it's a chamber that brings

32:51

its own mystery and its

32:53

reputation with it. Napoleon supposedly spent the

32:56

night in there and was visiting the

32:58

city, visited by whatever, you know, ghost

33:00

stories basically. But anyway, I waited till the

33:02

other six people had left. And

33:04

I don't know how many people in the world have done this, right?

33:06

But probably not many. But I went

33:08

to the left and it sort of goes

33:11

not dark, because they've got artificial lighting in

33:13

their little, you know, to guide you, as

33:15

it were. But I climbed in to the

33:17

stones I got for bits and layers. Wow.

33:20

For a bit. Just

33:22

to see if I felt any vibe of any, I

33:24

don't even believe in any of that stuff. I think

33:26

there's probably never been anybody who's done that apart from

33:29

yours. But I lay

33:31

there and then I just freaked myself out and got out and

33:33

laid there. It's

33:35

weird. Suddenly, as you say, the sand

33:37

has stopped falling out of the walls. That's right. The thing

33:39

has come down on top of it. That's you trapped forever.

33:41

But it's always the things you're not expecting. You know, when

33:43

I went, I wasn't expecting to climb into the sarcophagus. It

33:46

was just a bit of a... Well, you look over your

33:48

shoulder and go, oh, there's no one in here. Otherwise, I'm

33:50

just getting in until I happen. You know, I once got

33:52

arrested in Texas. Not expecting that, but here we are. I

33:54

mean, it wasn't a great crime. It was just speedy. Right.

33:56

It wasn't sort of, but I was doing like 115, and

34:00

it's very strict on it. And

34:02

if you go over 100, it's jail time, is

34:04

the gist of it. So it's an automatic jail

34:06

time. He didn't save Europe, really, boy. He

34:09

didn't save Europe, but all the

34:11

cliches, honestly, out comes the state

34:13

trooper, wide-brimmed hat, aviator shades, undoes

34:16

the gun holster clip as he came towards the car. I could

34:18

see my mirror. I was like, but it was like being in

34:20

a movie. I thought it was brilliant. I was like, this is

34:22

my friend who I was with. It was

34:24

just like, just don't say anything. Just,

34:27

and I was just like, this is great. He said,

34:29

shut up. So out the car,

34:31

sir, on the bonnet, kick leg

34:33

apart, search, all of the stuff. I went

34:35

very British at him, of course. I'm terribly

34:37

sorry. Was I doing over the

34:39

limit, obviously? I'm really very, very sorry. So

34:42

he checked passports and just sort

34:44

of said, well, when are you flying home? I said,

34:46

this was like Tuesday, and he said, I think Thursday.

34:48

And he said, well, hey, the judge

34:51

don't even get into town till Thursday. He's

34:53

like, ah, the judge. He

34:55

sort of weighed the situation up and just saw, OK, here's

34:57

what's going to happen. I'm going to write you a ticket.

35:00

You're going to go up the first post office you can

35:02

find, show that ticket, and you're going to have

35:04

to pay a fine. State Texas fine. And

35:07

if you don't pay the fine, you'll be

35:09

a wanted felon in the state of Texas.

35:12

So I said to my friend, I'm not

35:14

paying that fine. Imagine being a wanted felon

35:16

in the state of Texas. And he rightly

35:18

said, if you don't pay that fine, you

35:20

won't even get back into this country ever

35:23

again in your life, because you go home,

35:25

you fly back. You'll be on a wanted

35:27

list at every airport. And he

35:29

was absolutely right, of course. So I went and

35:31

paid the fine very quickly. I'm now off the

35:33

FBI's most wanted. Are

35:36

you sure? It's

35:38

the other one. It's the other John Hope. So

35:41

that's why travel. It's just moments

35:44

that aren't tangible. You can't keep

35:46

them, but they are part

35:48

of who you become, I suppose, and

35:50

part of your memory bank, and

35:53

part of just getting out there and experiencing stuff

35:55

that you just ordinarily wouldn't. So that's why I

35:57

want to put travel in there, because I think that's a

35:59

good way to do it. Okay, well that's

36:01

the second thing, Jane. Great, okay,

36:03

so let's move on to number three. Right,

36:06

as John would have said many times during

36:09

his career, we'll be back after this commercial

36:11

break. Let's hope they use this gap

36:13

to play some ads. See you in a sec. Before

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36:52

Welcome back to part two of my

36:54

time capsule with John Holmes. Here

36:56

are the rest of the things John would like

36:58

to have in his time capsule. I mean,

37:02

this is slightly, slightly, another slightly weirdo. And the

37:04

reason I'm going to put this in was because

37:06

it happens on a constant basis. It

37:08

should annoy me, but it doesn't annoy me. It

37:10

puts joy in my heart in a way. And

37:14

it's basically the disdain with

37:16

which my children regard me.

37:22

A shared experience of most dads.

37:25

Yeah. Yeah. And the older they are, I mean, they're two

37:27

girls, 13 and 11. Oh, yeah. There's a lot of disdain

37:29

there. Yeah. And

37:32

it used to be that I was the good guy,

37:34

I was the cool guy. Right. You know, I don't

37:36

know everyone whose dad would know this already. But you

37:38

sort of go through life up until they hit double

37:41

figures, more or less. And you know,

37:43

you're the good. You can do no wrong. You know,

37:45

you're the sort of you come in from work. Yeah.

37:47

All the stuff. Let's go and do this exciting thing.

37:50

Let's do that. Let's read that. Let's watch

37:52

that. All the stuff. And there's a moment

37:54

that I don't know whether it's

37:57

just inbuilt in children's DNA. The switch is free. And

38:01

then you're just the worst person in the world to

38:03

them. And everything you say that they used to think

38:05

regard as cool and amusing is now just,

38:08

ugh. And it's not

38:10

even when they get to their teens, which is

38:13

when you think, oh, teenagers. Yeah, no, no, they

38:15

younger than that. About 10, this starts

38:17

out. But it happens all

38:19

the time. And we went to see Wonka. And

38:21

just because of the industry of show that we

38:23

work in, Mike, you know, I know quite a

38:25

lot of the cast. Yeah, of course. At

38:27

the moment, I'm working with Ise-Sote on something, you know,

38:30

and she's in it. And you go, oh, Justin Edwards.

38:32

Yeah, well, I know Justin quite well. Yeah. You

38:34

know, and I've worked, oh, Matt Lucas, I've worked with Matt Lucas, you know. But

38:37

to annoy my 14, 13-year-old,

38:40

coming up 14, every time somebody appeared on

38:42

screen, I'd sort of lean over and I'd

38:44

go, I know him. Just

38:47

because I knew what reaction it was

38:49

on, which was more or less nothing

38:51

apart from a disdainful sideways glance. But

38:54

the more that happened, the more I enjoyed it. And

38:56

I started there thinking, this is great. This is really

38:58

funny. Do you think that's what becomes your job eventually,

39:01

that you in a way you push them through that

39:03

barrier by just going, OK, you think I'm annoying? You

39:06

wait until I've finished. That's right. I

39:08

think it's all part of their training, isn't it? And

39:11

I see myself very much as the sort of sergeant

39:13

major, but one that's ignored all of the time. And

39:15

then I get no say. And everything I say is

39:17

ignored. Yeah. You know, there's

39:19

no level of discipline. Do you think it's

39:21

a psychological thing that children have to go

39:24

through that rejection of their parents? And the

39:26

older girls have to, in a way, reject

39:28

their dad because they're moving on.

39:31

You know, you're the idol. Everything you

39:33

say is right and funny and you're

39:35

clever and you're interesting. And in

39:37

a way, they have to let you go. They have

39:39

to throw you away so they can open up the

39:41

world for what's to come. Of course

39:43

they do. And so should it be. There's

39:45

a song by ABBA, which you may know, called

39:48

Slipping Through My Fingers. And

39:50

it's probably their second best song, in my

39:52

opinion. And it's about, I

39:55

mean, initially you might think it's about a

39:57

break of a relationship, but it's actually about

39:59

a child going. and watching that change

40:01

every day. And that song always makes

40:03

me cry because of that. You know, having been sort

40:05

of, having been through that and going through that, really.

40:07

And you just watch them change into adults, which is

40:10

the right thing to have happened. But it's difficult as

40:12

a parent sometimes to sort of watch them. I'm

40:14

going in through a second time as a grandparent,

40:17

which is very weird. So I mean, actually

40:19

watching my grandchildren. I found myself the other day saying,

40:21

oh, well, when you were young, you wanted to be

40:23

with me all the time. And I thought, oh, you

40:25

idiot, you've done it again. That's

40:27

extraordinary. It is. But rather

40:29

than feel sad about it,

40:32

I want to embrace the disdain with which

40:34

they regard me and own it,

40:36

because I think that's the way forward. It's to

40:38

sort of throw yourself into it a bit more.

40:40

Because, you know, it doesn't annoy them. And they

40:43

have this area of, oh, you uncool out of

40:45

touch old man. But really,

40:47

you know, you're still their dad. So it's kind of

40:49

fun. You know, I'll pretend to understand what TikTok is just

40:51

to annoy them, even though I don't. You

40:53

know, just walk into the TikTok and say, this

40:55

is one of your Tiktok-dee-tok-dee-dancees. You know, things like

40:58

that. That's going to work. Yeah.

41:01

And you can imagine the reaction. But it's a lovely thing,

41:03

you know, when it turns around, when it goes back the

41:05

other way, when they do go away, and

41:07

then they come back, and actually then they

41:09

start finding you interesting again. And they're willing

41:11

to talk to you. It's really nice. The

41:14

thing to avoid is that whenever they

41:17

bring anybody home who is the

41:19

new boy, you

41:21

never say, why have you chosen him?

41:26

Always go, he's nice. He's nice. And particularly

41:28

if you don't like them, go

41:30

overboard. That's the thing. He's great.

41:32

Have you thought of marrying? They'll soon

41:35

get rid of him. It's brilliant. Good

41:37

tip. I'm going to take that. Thank

41:40

you. That's very good. Yeah, we're not quite at the

41:42

stage of bringing boys home yet, but I know it's

41:44

not far off. I mean, the eldest has sort of,

41:46

you know, had a few boyfriends at school sort of

41:48

thing. And you sort of go, what's

41:51

his name? What's he doing? How

41:53

about this dad, Anne? Yeah, that's

41:55

right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay,

41:57

well, let's put that, I can feel.

42:00

that disdain emanating from the time

42:02

capture. It's almost uncontainable, but

42:04

I shall. I shall put it in there for

42:06

you. Squash it down. That's number

42:08

three. That's brilliant, John. Right,

42:11

so what's number four? This is kind of

42:13

an interesting one, because I started thinking about

42:15

music initially. But then I expanded

42:17

it slightly to just listening,

42:19

right? And obviously working in sound as

42:22

I do in radio and audio. And

42:24

I'm very fascinated by sound design. You

42:26

know, I make a program called The

42:28

Skewer for Radio 4. It's

42:31

comedy, but there's a lot of sound design,

42:33

you know, and bringing those two loves together

42:35

for me. It's sort of the perfect, I

42:37

was going to say, hobby, you know what

42:39

I mean? But it's always been listening

42:42

to stuff. And again, it

42:44

comes back to the wildlife things in

42:46

a way, because having recorded whale song

42:48

underwater, and again, very fortunate enough to

42:50

sit with mounting gorillas with recording equipment

42:52

and just get a microphone near to

42:54

where they're eating mountain celery, as

42:57

they know it. So it's about listening.

42:59

And I don't think we do it enough, because

43:01

there was a period during lockdown when

43:03

we were all sort of trapped. But everyone was

43:06

talking about going for the daily walk. Bird

43:08

song, people kept talking about how, because the traffic

43:11

had died away, and airplanes had gone, bird

43:13

song and just the sounds of nature was far

43:15

more prevalent. Now, whether they're there anyway, and we

43:18

just don't hear it because of all the background

43:20

noise, or whether they'd also noticed that humans weren't

43:22

being their usual pain in the ass, and

43:25

just been a bit chirpier about it, I don't know.

43:28

But it was certainly noticeable. So there's

43:30

that side of it. But I think

43:32

just an appreciation of audio and sound.

43:35

And that includes music. I mean, that totally

43:37

includes live music. You

43:40

can't be a live gig in the right venue, especially

43:42

if you know all the words, all of

43:44

that stuff. And I sorted out all

43:46

my vinyl. So I used to

43:48

do disc, because I used to DJ, you know. Back

43:51

when I was a student, I used to do...

43:54

I used to work for a company in Birmingham that

43:57

were a sort of DJ promotion company. And I used

43:59

to do... office

44:01

parties and wedding and I'd fill up my

44:03

little fiesta with back then big record

44:07

decks none of your pioneered DJ

44:09

CD decks, proper record decks

44:11

and so I've got a lot of

44:13

vinyl so I was finding my mum's

44:15

original Elvis record and then sort of

44:17

going I might Google that, how much

44:20

is GI Bluesworth? original

44:23

pressing so yeah so there's a lot of it to go

44:25

through and I but what I have got in there I've

44:27

got a load of comedy albums all

44:30

on vinyl so I have a music section but then I've

44:32

got you know I do

44:34

believe you may be in a couple

44:36

of them, I'm honest. What's in there?

44:38

I mean there's Secret Policemen's Balls, The

44:40

One The Release Throws On Vinyl, Radioactive

44:42

of course, a very obscure show called

44:44

An Evening Without. Yes, oh there,

44:46

quite well, I gave my copy

44:49

of that away. Did you? Well I

44:51

gave it to Jimmy Melville who's a

44:53

member. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

44:55

yeah. Because you didn't have

44:57

it. One of the things is that when you do

44:59

those things at the time

45:01

they don't seem that precious because they're all

45:04

around you're trying to sell them to lots

45:06

of people so you have loads of them

45:08

and then years later you go well I

45:10

wonder where they are and actually an evening

45:12

without is one of those ones that's completely

45:14

disappeared but that's that's Griffries Jones, Clive Anderson,

45:16

Peter Finchem, Roy McGrath

45:19

and Jimmy Melville. Sort

45:23

of the who dares wins vibe to it in

45:25

there wasn't it? I haven't really talked about comedy

45:27

of course but my dad when I was growing

45:29

up, weird thing with comedy, I always think it's,

45:32

I don't think you can teach it to people if you

45:34

want to be you know writing it. I think it's like

45:36

music you know anyone can learn to play the guitar but

45:38

if you're gonna master it you need

45:40

to have an innate skill in music. I think

45:43

you probably want I think comedy is the same.

45:45

Yeah, you know you could be people can sort

45:47

of write jokes but unless you've got an innate

45:49

feeling for them that I can't explain but comedy

45:51

writers have. Yes, we've all

45:53

been in those things where people have written

45:55

things in the style of jokes and think

45:57

they are jokes and you go. It

46:00

sounds like a joke, but it is one. But there's not

46:02

one, really. So I was

46:04

very into it growing up, and

46:06

had somehow the natural affinity, you know, for

46:09

the technical side of how jokes work, I

46:11

suppose, a little bit. I'm very skillless in

46:13

all areas. I mean, honestly, my dad, being

46:16

a builder, despaired of me growing up because

46:18

I couldn't mend anything, I couldn't put a

46:20

shelf up, I couldn't mend the puncture on

46:22

my bike. I had no skills whatsoever. So

46:25

when I found writing, I was like, Oh,

46:27

something I think I can do. That was

46:29

all I've got. It remains

46:31

that to this day. Shelves, pictures up, not

46:34

a chance. But my dad was into the

46:36

goodies. So we had goodies albums as well.

46:38

And then because my mum was a nurse,

46:40

she worked nights. So I remember very young

46:42

age. So this must have been, I don't know,

46:45

mid 70s. So I'd have been about five

46:47

or something. And there

46:49

must have been repeats of Flying Circus

46:51

on TV. And I have

46:53

a distinct memory of my dad sort of. My mum put

46:55

me to bed before she went to work. You

46:59

come upstairs and you go, do you want to come down and watch

47:01

this? Nine o'clock or whatever.

47:03

And I go down and sit with him while we watched

47:05

Python. I didn't understand

47:07

any of it, of course. I just what I saw, though,

47:09

was a man hitting another man in the face with a

47:11

fish or something and thought this is what my dad was

47:14

laughing at. And and so there were two things going on.

47:16

If I look at it like a con psychologist, one

47:18

is my dad thinks this is funny. So it must

47:20

be funny. Because at that point, I

47:22

hadn't reached a disdain for him. I

47:25

was still still in the zone. But the

47:27

use of language and the rhythms of it

47:29

was fascinating to me. And that's when you start to learn

47:31

about jokes and how they string together. But

47:33

also I knew it was illicit and I

47:35

shouldn't be watching it because one would go

47:37

mad. So that's that sense of edge. I've

47:40

always had a sense of danger in comedy

47:42

as well. I mean, I will push boundaries.

47:44

Famously, Johnson, I think. We'll

47:46

get we'll get to that. But

47:48

yes, many times. And that, I think, is part of it.

47:50

And I saw it being a sort of boundary pushing thing.

47:52

And then it got a bit older, of course, and then

47:55

got into not nine o'clock news, which he

47:57

also liked. But by then, I was sort of 10, 11. when

48:00

that was on, I suppose. And

48:02

again, I didn't really, you know, because that was

48:04

for adults, it was based on the news, which

48:06

I hadn't really got beyond John Craven's news round.

48:08

I haven't got a lot of info. But

48:11

I remember one joke specifically that

48:13

made me realise, because I've spent a

48:15

lot of time writing topical comedy, news

48:17

and satire. And there was one joke in Not the

48:20

Nyla Clark News, which is

48:22

also on the album I subsequently bought, of course,

48:24

with my record token. And I didn't understand it.

48:27

But there was a burning

48:29

fire and a

48:31

voiceover. And it said, come home to a

48:34

real fire. Now I

48:36

knew, there were adverts on

48:38

TV at that time, with exactly that, because the National

48:40

Coal Board were running a series of adverts, they were

48:42

just like, come home to a real fire. That was

48:44

their thing. And the setup in the Not the Nyla

48:47

Clark News version was come home to a real fire,

48:49

buy a cottage in Wales. And at

48:52

the time, Welsh nationalists were burning English holiday games.

48:54

And I knew that from the news. And I

48:56

knew about the advert. And a light went off

48:58

in my head, going, they just put these two

49:00

things together. One is a cultural reference point, didn't

49:02

call it back at the age of 10. You

49:04

know what I mean? And the

49:06

other is something from the news. And that

49:08

juxtaposition really works as a joke. And a

49:10

light bulb went off and I went, that.

49:13

And then from there, Spinning Image came along a few

49:16

years later. But Not the Nyla Clark News

49:18

was, yeah, my sort of proper way in,

49:20

to realise you could do satirical sort of

49:23

stuff. The very first thing I appeared on

49:25

in television was Not the Nyla Clark News,

49:27

which I was a student. What were you

49:29

in? I'm in a sketch on an aeroplane.

49:31

I know that. And bizarrely, I'm sitting in

49:33

front of Griffin Mill, and I'm knitting. But

49:38

back to the point of putting in time capsules,

49:41

listening, because I think if that's what I did,

49:43

I sort of, you know, we haven't even put

49:45

about music, but certainly comedy wise, you know, I

49:47

would play these albums over and over again, so

49:49

I was word perfect. You know, these various comedy

49:51

sketch albums, you know, there was a Bob Newhart

49:54

album, I think I got from

49:56

a friend's dad, and said, Oh, you might like

49:58

that in Driving Instructor was his famous. piece

50:00

on that and I think... Yeah, don't tell me what, don't tell

50:02

me. Stick it up your nose. Nobody

50:05

will know what that means unless they know what I'm talking about, but there you

50:07

are. Yes, amazing. And

50:09

of course that was a time, I suppose,

50:11

videos were just coming in, weren't they? But

50:13

if you wanted comedy that you could listen

50:15

to again and again or be involved in

50:17

again and again, you had

50:19

to have it as a sound thing. You did. And

50:21

Python, of course, brought out loads of albums. But also,

50:24

it used to be extra jokes

50:26

for people who bought the albums. They didn't

50:28

just throw the sketches on there. They would

50:30

do continuity announcements between them and

50:32

take the piss out of the very... Again, the thing

50:34

I'm into and always have even companies, take the piss

50:36

out of the format you're on. And

50:39

they would mess about with the idea that

50:41

you had to put a needle on the...

50:43

There were double grooved sides to it. There

50:45

were stupid jokes about turning the record over.

50:47

Lots of, I suppose, Easter

50:49

eggs we'd call them now for

50:51

people who were into their audio comedy. And

50:54

elaborate... I mean, Python's elaborate gatefold

50:56

sleeve vinyl matching time handkerchiefs with

50:58

actual handkerchiefs. Amazing. It's

51:00

just such a weird thing. Amazing. That's your

51:03

time when money could be made out

51:05

of selling those things. Certainly not now.

51:08

Well, that's four lovely things you put in there.

51:10

So this is the one thing you want to

51:13

put in there, bury and forget. Yes, well, I

51:15

do and I don't. I mean, I do for

51:17

the reasons that will become obvious, but I sort

51:19

of don't because I think you

51:21

need to have gone through certain

51:24

things in order to shape

51:26

you. Well, then it sort of depends on

51:28

what shape you end up in, I suppose. But you touched

51:30

on it earlier about being fired. So I was going to

51:32

sort of bury a folder marked

51:34

Korea balls up. How big is

51:36

this folder? Quite a big folder.

51:39

We're going to need a big

51:41

hole for this. So yeah. And

51:43

of which there have

51:45

been many, but of course they've always led onto

51:47

something else. So without them, I'm glad they

51:49

happened. But at the same time, you sort of go, yeah,

51:52

I didn't really think I went through. Easily

51:54

done. But as you say, that whole experience of

51:57

realizing that comedy was something will

52:00

you were breaking boundaries down, the way you

52:02

were taking risks. And I think anytime you

52:04

say something that you hope is funny, you're

52:06

taking a risk. Because if other people

52:08

don't think it's funny, you look foolish or

52:10

you look, people look at you as if you're

52:12

mad. Yeah, or even worse these days, take

52:15

offense at it. Yeah, it could be. Because that's the world

52:17

in which we live. You said, no, no, I didn't mean

52:19

what I said. I meant the opposite. Yeah, exactly. There was

52:21

a sort of joke there. Don't take it

52:23

at face value. This is how jokes work. People

52:25

say, ah, you're canceled or whatever. Nonsense,

52:28

it might be. But yeah, there's been certain things that stick

52:30

out. I think the one probably you mentioned it earlier, but

52:32

the one you may have been thinking of. You

52:34

see, I still hold the record,

52:37

Mike, for the largest ever fine

52:39

in British UK broadcasting. Congratulations. It

52:41

has never been beaten for taste

52:43

and decency for offenses, officially.

52:46

And I don't have a certificate, other

52:48

than what I've made myself. I was on late

52:51

night radio. It

52:53

was Virgin Radio, not the current iteration of

52:55

Virgin Radio with Chris Evans. It

52:57

was before that. Although, weirdly,

52:59

Chris Evans was on that as well. But anyway, that's

53:01

another story. But it was the old Virgin Radio before

53:03

it disappeared. It became absolute radio, radio geeks. And

53:06

then it came back later. Anyway, I was

53:08

on there doing weekend late nights, which was

53:10

like 10 p.m. to 2 a.m., four hours

53:12

across that midnight slot. So no

53:14

one really listened. It was sort of cult

53:17

listening amongst standups driving back from gigs. That

53:19

was its, you know, Mel and Sue used

53:21

to say to me, they used to listen. They'd

53:23

drive back for a gig on a Friday, and

53:25

have it on in the car. And of course, in that

53:27

position, you'd have a certain license. Yes, and nobody,

53:30

the joy of it was it was

53:32

live. Obviously, it was music, yes. All

53:34

good music. And although very

53:36

repetitive, being commercial radio. Oh,

53:39

we're playing that again, are we? Correct. Then like

53:41

10 minutes ago. But I seek

53:44

to fill the gaps with the

53:46

most inventive stuff, funniest stuff, I

53:49

could think, I thought would be funny. You

53:51

know, and in some cases, I was right. In other cases,

53:53

Ofcom did not agree with me. The,

53:55

the value of the humor, but

53:57

it was a Wild West. I mean, this was pre.

54:00

Russell Brand and Jonathan Ross doing that thing

54:02

on Radio 2. No one else

54:04

was in the building. There wasn't a producer because

54:06

commercial radio didn't have them for the

54:08

likes of me in the middle of the night.

54:10

So there was just me and my mate who

54:13

was essentially my sidekick.

54:15

And we just sort of did what we wanted.

54:18

And I didn't really know. I mean, this was

54:20

22 years ago. I was still learning and I

54:22

didn't really know where the line was. I mean,

54:24

I sort of did, but it was a lot

54:26

further back than where I thought it was going

54:28

to be. So

54:30

I stepped over it willy-nilly quite a lot

54:32

and it caused a little bit of trouble

54:35

sometimes. But nothing. But what was happening was

54:37

the listening figures were going up because, you know, it

54:39

was pushing these back. People just go, well, this is what's

54:41

going to happen now. I'm going to stay listening. And then

54:43

the one that sort of kicked it into

54:47

the territory it went into was we had

54:49

a game called Swearing Radio Hangman for

54:52

the under 12s. I

54:56

had the idea and it was parents would ring

54:58

up and say my under 12

55:00

year old is going to play. They want a

55:02

CD, you know, if they got it right. They

55:04

would play a game of hangman. And the hangman,

55:06

you know, would be however many words. Now, if

55:08

you're listening as an adult, the

55:11

beauty of it was of course you got the

55:13

word way before the kid. So you knew what

55:15

was coming. And that was the joy. We've been

55:17

doing it for a while with just silly phrases,

55:19

really. I mean, you know, it started off with

55:21

just poo and bum and wee or whatever. And

55:24

then it just got increasingly more sweary as we went

55:26

along and the funnier it got. And

55:28

I remember the one that got us into trouble was it

55:30

was nine year old Katie. Her

55:33

parents said she's going to play and

55:35

I said, great, put her on. Let's go. Hi

55:37

Katie. How's your day at school? Chat, chat, chat. So,

55:40

OK, let's play. Let's play hangman. I've got

55:42

three words here and you know, it

55:44

works. If you say the letter, I'll fill it in. If

55:46

you haven't got the letter, I'll start drawing the hangman. But

55:48

if you get the words correctly, you're going to win a

55:50

CD. And her parents are helping her. She's on the phone.

55:52

Her parents, of course, are just helping her along. So

55:55

this is at midnight. So

55:57

it's five letters, three letters and four letters. Katie, off

55:59

we go. And she said, okay, is

56:01

there a... is there a... I

56:03

said, yeah, there is. It's

56:05

the first letter of the first word. Good start.

56:08

Okay, go again. Is there an

56:11

L? No, there isn't an L. I'm going to start

56:13

drawing that. And on this one. Anyway,

56:15

is there an A? Yeah, there's an A. It's the third

56:17

letter of the first word and the second

56:19

letter of the last word. Is there a T? Yes. It's

56:22

the first letter of the three-letter word in the middle. And

56:24

the last letter of the... In the

56:26

end, she ended up spelling out, with parents'

56:28

help, the phrase, Soapy

56:32

Titwank. Which

56:34

I now realise is entirely inappropriate. It

56:36

is. To play as a game on the radio.

56:38

Yeah. But at the time, you know, I thought

56:41

it was funny. And I could hear her parents.

56:43

You can hear her parents just go, It's Soapy

56:45

Titwank. Say Soapy Titwank. It's Soapy... Oh, I'm just

56:47

going to... Anyway, so she said, you see, it's

56:50

Soapy Titwank. And I said, yes, it is. Congratulations.

56:52

Shout it as loud as you can. So she

56:54

just went, Soapy Titwank. And I went, here's Deacon

56:56

Blue. And then the phones start ringing. And then

56:59

the next sort of few days. So

57:01

the boss knew about the game,

57:03

obviously, sanctioned the game. I

57:05

told him the words that were going to be in the game. And

57:08

he was like, fine. That's funny. It's midnight.

57:10

All that stuff. Yeah. Like the moment upstairs

57:12

above him get involved, I just went,

57:15

I did not know he was doing that. I can't believe you

57:17

did this. I just can't believe

57:19

it. No, can't believe it. Absolutely appalling. Yeah.

57:21

And I was like, but you knew. It

57:24

was like, not officially. I didn't. And no

57:26

one's ever going to, your word gets my

57:28

eye. I was like, I've learned a

57:30

lesson. Yeah. So that was a 150,000 pound fine. Wow.

57:35

Yeah. Directly to you or to the station?

57:38

I got for that. I know,

57:40

thank God. I was being paid about 20 quid.

57:42

Yeah. I mean, come on. Oh my God. Yeah.

57:44

No, the station. And in the end, they cut

57:46

a deal with Ofcom. And they said, look, if

57:49

you halve the fine, we'll fire

57:51

him. So the deal

57:53

was that they got rid of me because that was seemed to

57:55

be taking action. And they got the

57:57

fine down 75K. I was out.

57:59

I was like. sorry what? But

58:02

you said I could do it. But in terms of how

58:04

weird things happen, but you know, because it had been quite

58:06

a big fight, it got into the papers. And

58:09

I remember my mum phoned me

58:11

up and she was like, sorry, why is there

58:13

a picture of you in, you know, the independent

58:15

or whatever. And

58:17

I happened to be, again, I was

58:19

presenting, but I was also writing stuff and

58:21

I can't remember what I was working on,

58:24

but something and BBC three was about to

58:26

launch or just had maybe round about then.

58:28

And I got into a Lyft at

58:30

TV centre, this other bloke in

58:32

there and we were going up there and he

58:34

said, sorry, are you John Holmes? And

58:37

I thought, oh, he's a porn fan. Here we go.

58:40

And he said, have I just

58:42

read about you in the paper and about this, and I said,

58:44

I said, ah, yeah, yeah. And I

58:46

started sort of vaguely explaining, he went, no, no, it's funny.

58:48

It was a funny thing. He said, we're making a new

58:50

BBC three show. Do you want to come in for a

58:52

chat? And I ended up on a TV

58:54

series on BBC three because of that. Yeah. You

58:56

know, that's how weird things are. In fact, the

58:59

guy from Ofcom, who did the adjudication was

59:01

a guy called Martin Campbell. And he died

59:03

very sadly, just at the end of last

59:05

year. Right. And I got to know him

59:07

over the years after that, because I

59:09

spent a lot of time proving to people I

59:12

wasn't just sort of psychopath maverick. Yeah, I

59:14

was I did like radio properly. And I wasn't

59:16

just, you know, doing this shock jockery stuff, because

59:18

it was I thought it was a satire on

59:20

trite phone ins, you know, whatever. Anyway, I got

59:22

to know him at various industry events. And he

59:25

said to me, he said, look, you said, when

59:27

we listened to that tape, you know, it was

59:29

on Monday morning over coffee and classals

59:31

or whatever, right. And there's a boardroom

59:33

full of stuffy Ofcom regulators sitting around

59:36

listening to that. We

59:40

were appalled, John, you know, as you can imagine.

59:42

He said, I do understand that Monday morning wasn't

59:44

the context. And it was midnight. And apparently, he

59:47

said, oh, God, it was absolutely beyond

59:49

the pale. He said, you know, we were appalled that you

59:51

were getting this chance to shout soap. You hang on the

59:53

radio, right. And I said, I'm so sorry. He said, but

59:55

off the record, John, on the funniest things I've ever heard

59:57

in my life. But

1:00:00

you know, for the general career balls ups, of

1:00:03

that being the pinnacle. Well, we'll bury them, but

1:00:05

at the same time treasure them, I

1:00:07

think. There we go. Buried treasure. Buried

1:00:09

treasure. Brilliant. Fantastic.

1:00:11

John, thank you very much for

1:00:13

doing this. It's been absolutely my

1:00:15

pleasure. More mine, I would

1:00:18

say, and I speak as a former porn star. Can

1:00:22

you put it away now, please? Sorry

1:00:24

about that. Turn the screen off. You

1:00:30

have been listening to My

1:00:32

Time Keeps, with me, Mike

1:00:34

Fenton-Stevens, and my guest, Ron

1:00:36

Holmes. Many thanks for listening.

1:00:39

Before you go, do click five stars

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1:01:18

was made for Acast, and skillfully

1:01:20

produced, as ever, by John Fenton-Stevens.

1:01:22

And there you have it. Another

1:01:24

in a long line of podcasts, all

1:01:27

still available for your listening pleasure. I'll

1:01:29

be back with a new guest very soon,

1:01:31

so until then, always remember that there

1:01:34

was a young man from Devises, whose

1:01:36

balls were of different sizes. The one

1:01:38

that was small was of no use

1:01:40

at all, but the other won several

1:01:42

prizes. I'll possibly try to forget

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that. Bye.

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