What happens when two tarot readers meet to talk about archetypes? Literally everything. And nothing. Find out what that means in this latest episode of Myth & Magic for Modern Times -- an interview with Alese Osborn, one chaotic, wild, yang, female explosion of creativity and genius. She shares her thoughts on Carl Yung, J.R.R. Tolkein and Joseph Campbell -- soulful poets and scholars who believed in magic and who, each in their own ways, did big work in connecting archetypes and ritual, magic and spirituality into the everyday in their time. Our long, leisurely, frequently hilarious, insightful conversation covers everything from creativity, concepts of good, evil, the "Secular World," who the Mr Rogers of occultists is, and chaos. I hope you enjoy!