0:33

Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast.

0:33

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0:38

with this channel is to bring

0:38

inspirational speakers to the

0:42

mic in the field of yoga,

0:42

massage bodywork and beyond.

0:48

Follow us @nativeyoga, and check

0:48

us out at nativeyogacenter.com.

0:56

All right, let's begin Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast

1:05

today I have a special guest on

1:09

Pranidhi Varshney. And you can

1:09

find her on her website, which

1:13

is www.yogashalawest.com. She's

1:13

located in Los Angeles,

1:17

California, and follow her on

1:17

Instagram at @yogashalawest.

1:21

Also check her out on YouTube.

1:21

And this one is off of her name

1:25

at @pranidhiv.. So you'll be

1:25

able to find or no problem

1:29

obviously go to her website. And

1:29

the links are all there. And you

1:34

can find the links to all of

1:34

that in the description below.

1:38

You'll also see some other links

1:38

ways that you can support the

1:42

show and also all of our other

1:42

digital offerings that we have

1:46

available for you. I really

1:46

enjoy this opportunity. Speaking

1:50

with Pranidhi, she has such a

1:50

nice gentle nature and a lot of

1:55

insight in what it takes to run

1:55

a yoga studio to develop

1:58

community and to teach and

1:58

practice yoga in a way that she

2:02

encourages support. And real

2:02

being real, you know, just

2:06

keeping it real, keeping it

2:06

simple, keeping it real. So

2:10

thank you so much Pranidhi and I

2:10

can't wait for you all to hear

2:14

this conversation. Send me a

2:14

message to let me know what you

2:19

think. And send her one as well

2:19

if you enjoy. And let's go ahead

2:23

and get started. I'm so happy to

2:23

have this opportunity to speak

2:27

with Pranidhi Varshney. And

2:27

Pranidhi, How are you doing today?

2:33

I'm doing really well. Thanks

2:33

for having me today. Yeah, I'm

2:35

grateful the opportunity? Absolutely. I found your incredible content

2:37

on YouTube. And your YouTube

2:41

channel is at PranidhiV, which I

2:41

highly recommend everyone check

2:46

it out. And I was just really

2:46

inspired by your work. And I'm

2:50

just excited to have this chance

2:50

to speak with you. So thank you

2:55

very much. Can you give like a

2:55

short? Like if I had if I asked

2:59

you what is your job title? How

2:59

would you answer that?

3:06

Well, the first thing that comes

3:06

to mind is like a wiper of

3:10

noses. And but because I'm a

3:10

mother of two. Good answer

3:17

young, young children, they're

3:17

two and five. And that's what I

3:21

spend most of my time doing. But

3:21

at the yoga Shala. So it's a

3:26

good question. And we know where

3:26

to get an answer that's more

3:30

specific than just I teach yoga.

3:30

You know, I guess my primary job

3:34

description at the Shala would

3:34

be a cultivator of community.

3:41

Good answer. Yeah, that's what I

3:41

really see myself. I see that as

3:45

sort of my life's mission as as

3:45

a mother and as a yoga teacher.

3:50

And it's become even more clear

3:50

to me after the pandemic, which

3:53

was a time in which we really,

3:53

you know, lived in isolation for

3:59

quite some time. Depending on

3:59

where we were living, what part

4:03

of the country we were living

4:03

in, you know, that period lasted

4:06

different durations for people,

4:06

but for me, here in California,

4:09

our Salah was close for 14

4:09

months. And like playgrounds

4:13

were close, you know, it was it

4:13

was pretty intense time. So

4:18

since coming back, especially, I

4:18

felt pretty called to just focus

4:22

my energies on gathering

4:22

together with people in person.

4:26

And actually, you know, even

4:26

before the pandemic, we did a

4:29

lot of that at our Shala things

4:29

have changed, of course, and we

4:32

can talk about that as the

4:32

conversation moves forward. But

4:36

yeah, I would say uh, I like to

4:36

put a lot of energy into

4:39

cultivating communities. That's cool, great, great answer in

4:41

relation to your yoga teaching

4:46

career. You are in a stronger

4:46

yoga teacher. Am I correct?

4:51

That's correct. And can you give

4:51

me a little bit of your

4:54

background and relation to was

4:54

your first yoga class and Tangu

5:00

yoga class, or did you practice

5:00

yoga and then find Ashtanga and

5:05

then go seriously down the

5:05

Ashtanga track? How did that

5:09

evolve? Yeah, so. So I started

5:09

practicing Yoga very casually in

5:14

high school, just sort of with

5:14

DVDs and things like that. And

5:17

then I actually in college, one

5:17

of the first yoga classes that I

5:22

took in an actual studio was in,

5:22

actually was at a gym. And it

5:29

was actually the primary series,

5:29

but it was just called power

5:32

yoga with little modifications

5:32

here and there from the primary

5:35

series, but basically primary.

5:35

And I didn't know that at the

5:38

time, but I really fell in love

5:38

with the practice was a lead

5:41

class. And once I figured out

5:41

okay, this is Ashtanga Yoga then

5:45

I found and I stumbled with

5:45

studio and city, I was going to

5:48

college just outside of Chicago,

5:48

and found studio in the city and

5:52

it started taking my classes

5:52

there. And but it wasn't really

5:57

until I'm moved to California

5:57

that I started practicing my

6:01

source style. That was in

6:01

2010 2009, or 2010. And around

6:08

that time, I took a yoga teacher

6:08

training. So my Ashtanga

6:11

practice was growing around the

6:11

same time that I was training,

6:15

very, on a very basic level, to

6:15

be able to share the practice.

6:19

And then over the years, I

6:19

became more serious and devoted

6:22

to the practice. And Monday,

6:22

Joyce is my main teacher. So I

6:26

went and studied with him all

6:26

over the world. And his home

6:30

base is actually in Encinitas,

6:30

which is not too far from me. So

6:32

it would pop in there from time

6:32

to time as well. And his in his

6:37

approach has really influenced

6:37

me. So yeah, he's my sort of

6:41

guiding light in terms of how I

6:41

share the practice. And around

6:46

2015 is when I open the shower.

6:46

So we are going on eight years

6:51

now. Congratulations. Thank you.

6:54

I saw I saw a post on Instagram

6:54

that you were advertising are

6:57

showing that we made it eight

6:57

years. Yeah, it's a big deal.

7:01

Right? Especially Yeah, you said

7:01

surviving the pandemic and

7:05

surviving the pandemic in LA,

7:05

like you said, 14 months closed

7:10

is a long time. So I have have

7:10

questions for you regarding

7:15

that. My wife and I were in Juno

7:15

Beach, Florida, a different type

7:20

of approach was taken, we were

7:20

mandated closed for nine weeks

7:26

total. So like, not very long.

7:26

But that doesn't mean it didn't

7:31

mean it was easy. When we, you

7:31

know, I we pay rent. So I bet my

7:35

landlord didn't like making the

7:35

concessions. And it was, we have

7:39

to do this, but it was not easy.

7:39

Because it doesn't mean

7:41

everybody wanted to come in and

7:41

all that sort of stuff, too. But

7:44

um, I guess I'm curious, how did

7:44

you survive that 14 months

7:48

financially? Did your landlord

7:48

require you to pay rent? And

7:53

then I'm also super curious

7:53

about the way that your studio

7:57

sound structure in the

7:57

relationship to isol terminology

8:00

that it's like a community

8:00

supported astanga studio. So I

8:04

have a ton of questions for you.

8:04

But maybe let's start with that.

8:07

Let's start with that. What is

8:07

the how does your How does your

8:10

pay structure work and torn in

8:10

terms of like the community

8:13

idea? Sure. Yeah. So I think it's

8:14

actually really great, you bring

8:17

this up, because I think as yoga

8:17

teachers, there's a tendency to

8:20

not be super transparent about

8:20

the financial aspect of things.

8:24

And I think it's time to break

8:24

that open. So I'm happy to talk

8:28

about it financially getting

8:28

through COVID. It was

8:33

interesting, we actually had our

8:33

five year anniversary of the

8:35

Shala, during COVID. So that was

8:35

in 2020. And, like you said, you

8:40

know, at the beginning, we thought we'd be close for a couple of weeks and turn into a

8:42

couple of months. And our lease,

8:46

that was in March, starting in

8:46

March of 2020. And couple months

8:51

turned into more months. And by

8:51

August, when our five year we

8:55

had a five year lease, a five

8:55

year lease was up. And I

8:59

actually in the preparation, the

8:59

process of figuring out what we

9:04

were going to do whether we were

9:04

going to keep our lease because

9:06

at that time, it was really the

9:06

great unknown, we had no idea

9:09

like what was going on when we

9:09

were going to be allowed to

9:11

open. You know, I actually

9:11

because we have this community

9:15

orientation, actually called

9:15

together several of my students

9:19

who were kind of our core, our

9:19

core crew, you know, people

9:23

who've been there since the

9:23

beginning are really invested in

9:25

the community. And I laid it out

9:25

for them that, you know, here's

9:29

our situation, and I got a lot

9:29

of feedback from them. Knowing

9:33

ultimately that I was going to

9:33

make the decision. I mean, I'm

9:36

the one on the lease. You know,

9:36

my partner and I, my husband and

9:39

I are the ones on the lease. But

9:39

it was really important for me

9:42

to get that community feedback

9:42

and to make the decision in the

9:47

collaborative process. And we

9:47

did make the decision to keep

9:50

the lease but I went to the

9:50

landlord and asked for some rent

9:54

relief during the time because

9:54

like I like we had no idea how

9:58

long we'd be close to And I was

9:58

fortunate that because the

10:02

timing of that five year renewal

10:02

came and 2020, he was actually,

10:08

you know, motivated to kind of

10:08

keep us renting the space

10:11

because there's a landlord,

10:11

also, he doesn't know how long

10:15

this thing's gonna, you know, be

10:15

going on. So, and we've been

10:18

great tenants. For him, we know,

10:18

we've really taken care of this

10:21

space, and also making our

10:21

financial contributions on time

10:25

every month. So he was motivated

10:25

to keep us there. So he gave us

10:28

rent relief for about another

10:28

year. So are basically from

10:33

summer 2020 to summer 2021. I

10:33

think I remember that correctly,

10:38

we got some rent relief, we

10:38

didn't have to pay nothing, but

10:40

we had to pay much less than our

10:40

full rent. That helped us get

10:44

through financially. But

10:44

ultimately, what helped us the

10:47

most is what you referenced

10:47

earlier, which is our fee

10:50

structure. So when I first

10:50

started the Shala, you know, I'm

10:55

in based in LA, everything

10:55

around here was priced at your

11:00

typical sort of like 180 $200, a

11:00

month range for a Mysore style

11:04

practice. And most teachers give

11:04

some relief to students if

11:09

they're high financial hardship,

11:09

but you can talk to the teacher

11:12

you work or special arrangement

11:12

or whatever. And what I saw in

11:16

the studios that I was practicing in, that I was teaching in assisting in is that

11:18

a lot of people were just

11:22

getting priced out, that's a

11:22

pretty high price point for most

11:25

people. And I wanted to create a

11:25

space that was more inclusive,

11:30

that would welcome people, you

11:30

know, you have all kinds of

11:33

financial situations. And so

11:33

from the beginning, we've had

11:37

this very open approach to our

11:37

fee structure, which is that

11:41

everybody contributes monthly,

11:41

but that amount of your

11:45

contribution is, is open, you

11:45

know, each student decides what

11:50

they want to contribute, we have

11:50

a suggested range of 100 to $200

11:53

a month, we have students

11:53

contributing less than that if

11:57

they need to, but generally,

11:57

people fall in the 100 to $200 a

12:00

month range. And because we had

12:00

set up that structure from the

12:04

beginning, our students have

12:04

always felt like their financial

12:10

contribution is not a tit for

12:10

tat, in terms of this is what

12:14

I'm paying to get my teaching or

12:14

whatever, you know, this is what

12:17

I'm paying to be able to come to

12:17

the shuttle. No, it's about this

12:21

is what I'm contributing to the

12:21

community. So that we the space

12:24

can be open so that the teachers

12:24

can show up so that we can have

12:27

everything we need to practice.

12:27

So everything is going to one,

12:32

you know, basically. And so that

12:32

ethos is actually what carried

12:36

us through the pandemic, because

12:36

even though our physical spaces

12:39

core for 14 months, I would say

12:39

the majority of our students

12:44

continued to contribute

12:44

financially, because they knew

12:47

that I was still paying rent on

12:47

the space, even though we were

12:50

closed. And they knew that if

12:50

they didn't, the space might not

12:55

be there when we were ready to

12:55

return. And we kept the

12:59

community going, we had zoom

12:59

practice, and we had you know,

13:02

little outdoor events and stuff

13:02

once that was allowed. So I

13:06

tried to keep the community

13:06

alive, even though we couldn't

13:10

gather in person. And it's been

13:10

super interesting to witness

13:14

what's happened since we

13:14

reopened because that community

13:18

spirit, I think, got us through

13:18

the pandemic, it got us to 2021

13:23

or at least summer, May of 2021

13:23

are allowed to open back up

13:26

again. Since then, our community

13:26

is almost entirely transformed.

13:32

So most of the students that

13:32

were there before the pandemic

13:36

are gone. And now with almost a

13:36

whole new batch of students,

13:40

people either moved or stopped

13:40

practicing or from, you know,

13:44

other things that they wanted to

13:44

do with their time. And so I've

13:49

witnessed this sort of cycle of

13:49

death and rebirth within the

13:53

community. It's been kind of

13:53

amazing to witness, you know,

13:58

the vibe is totally different.

13:58

My teaching partner is somebody

14:01

new. So it feels like a whole

14:01

new community. But now we're in

14:07

that process, again, of

14:07

rebuilding that community ethos

14:10

with a brand new batch of

14:10

people. And it just feels really

14:14

cool. Because I think as I know,

14:14

I've been talking for a while,

14:17

but it's just a really been a

14:17

really amazing experience to

14:21

witness and to sort of lead the

14:21

community through because I find

14:25

myself less attached than I was

14:25

before because I've witnessed

14:28

this sort of letting go that

14:28

needs to happen in order for

14:31

something new to come in. So

14:31

that, you know, this is what

14:34

we're cultivating in our yoga

14:34

practice to sort of surrender

14:38

and ability to let go and not be

14:38

so attached to outcome. As a

14:45

teacher and as a community

14:45

leader. It's been interesting to

14:48

bring that practice in. And

14:48

perhaps not even consciously but

14:52

just have that. To have that

14:52

sort of just happen and be

14:57

witness to it has been pretty cool. Oh That sounds amazing. I've had

14:59

we've had similar type of

15:03

experience of a whole new crop

15:03

and rebirth, right? And I'm

15:10

feeling like, like lately, like

15:10

a real like resurgence whereas,

15:16

but it's taken like a while,

15:16

like I just had this feeling at

15:21

home, like, I'm gonna reopen and

15:21

everybody's just gonna come

15:23

flooding back in. And it was

15:23

such a gradual and it really

15:27

knocked everyone off their

15:27

normal routine, like all that

15:29

work that you had put into

15:29

cultivating people showing up

15:34

and building in time for their

15:34

practice every day. And when

15:37

that all like got lost, it's

15:37

almost like it did it kind of

15:39

hit the reset button a bit big

15:39

time for sure. Yeah, I noticed

15:42

that as well. Yeah, that's a great disrupter that

15:44

whole time. Yeah.

15:47

How I'm curious, because maybe

15:47

there might be other studios,

15:52

that yoga, yoga studio owners

15:52

and or yoga teachers that are

15:55

listening that are thinking,

15:55

Hmm, I wonder if that would work

16:01

for me, too. And would you and

16:01

it does sound What's incredible

16:06

is that people continue to

16:06

contribute, because they felt

16:09

the value of what you're

16:09

offering. And they wanted to

16:11

continue to support that, which

16:11

is absolutely amazing. We had a

16:14

similar type of experience here.

16:14

Do I guess, are there any, like

16:21

downsides? Or it sounds like

16:21

it's working really well for

16:24

you. But is there anything I

16:24

would need to look out for if I

16:27

was to try to adopt that model?

16:31

Yeah, it's a great question. I

16:31

would say the doing any sort of

16:36

model in which that's not the

16:36

conventional approach, which is,

16:39

you know, this is the price and

16:39

that's what you pay. It just

16:44

requires a certain amount of

16:44

flexibility and openness and

16:46

willingness to change and adapt

16:46

if something isn't working. We

16:51

have an example of that early

16:51

on. I had just sort of left it

16:56

open. And I had not given any, I

16:56

had given a suggested rate of

17:01

100 to $200. But I had just like

17:01

kind of left it open on our

17:04

website, in terms of most of our

17:04

payments are done online. So

17:07

just left it open, and people

17:07

could choose. And I found that

17:11

just on a design level, people

17:11

were just choosing the lowest.

17:16

They were just choosing 100. And

17:16

I was like, well, this isn't

17:19

going to work, you know, this

17:19

isn't going to get me to where I

17:22

need to be because I also wanted

17:22

to make sure that we were

17:25

solvent be losing money on the

17:25

show, that was really not an

17:27

option for me and my family. So

17:27

we wanted to be solvent quickly.

17:33

And efficiently. And so I just

17:33

sort of changed. Design wise on

17:37

the website, I started to

17:37

offering amount, so

17:40

101 25 151 75 and 200. And just

17:40

that simple design change made

17:47

so much difference to those

17:47

people than just were like,

17:50

Okay, these are the options, and I'm just going to pick what feels right. And that's a good

17:52

thing. And the first couple of

17:56

years, I think we didn't have a

17:56

recurring option. But then we

18:00

once we added that, that also

18:00

helped us a lot, because people

18:04

could then could just like

18:04

choose the amount and then it

18:06

would just be automatic. And

18:06

they wouldn't have to go through

18:09

this like decision fatigue every

18:09

month of like, Okay, now what am

18:12

I gonna choose? And what am I

18:12

going to do? So that recurring

18:15

thing really helped us a lot. So

18:15

things like that. Yeah, it's all

18:20

part of the learning process.

18:20

Yeah, it's like, you know, these

18:23

little things can really help.

18:23

And also just being attuned to

18:27

what the community needs, my

18:27

model works, because we're here,

18:29

but in another community, you

18:29

may need a different approach.

18:32

There are lots of different

18:32

options. I have friends who do

18:35

like more of a sponsorship model

18:35

for making sure kind of lower

18:40

income students can come in. So

18:40

they have they have their set

18:43

rate, but then they have a rate

18:43

where if you are financially

18:46

abundant, and you want to

18:46

sponsor somebody else, you can

18:49

say a higher rate, and then that

18:49

additional fee goes towards, you

18:52

know, sponsoring that lower

18:52

income student. Good approaches

18:55

like that. Yeah, there are lots

18:55

of different approaches. I think

18:57

it just takes some creativity

18:57

and some flexibility.

19:01

Yeah. Oh, I love hearing all

19:01

this. Thank you so much. I can't

19:05

tell you how much I enjoy

19:05

talking to other studio owners

19:07

because it's such an interesting

19:07

process to, to keep on top of,

19:12

are you What is your biggest

19:12

challenge? Currently, as a

19:18

studio community facilitator

19:18

owner, operator?

19:24

Yeah, I mean, there are there

19:24

challenges. I think most

19:27

recently, what's been present

19:27

for me in the last couple of

19:29

years coming out of the pandemic

19:29

is during that time, I also had

19:32

another kid my my son was born

19:32

in 2021. August of 2021. Yeah,

19:38

thank you to now. But then

19:38

coming out of the pandemic, so

19:42

before the pandemic, I used to

19:42

teach six days a week during the

19:47

pandemic, you know, every like,

19:47

like we talked earlier, was a

19:50

great disrupter. And I had been

19:50

wanting to cut down to five days

19:54

a week for a long time. Just

19:54

because I like having weekends

19:58

for my family and for my kids.

19:58

So I finally dropped Sundays

20:01

during the pandemic, because we

20:01

only did do Monday through

20:04

Friday during the pandemic. And

20:04

then once we came back to in

20:08

person, we just stuck with a

20:08

Monday, Friday. And then I

20:11

gradually brought another

20:11

teacher on who is very

20:15

accomplished in her own right,

20:15

but came to our struggle a

20:18

little bit later. And so we've

20:18

been working together for a few

20:21

years. And now we she's also a

20:21

mother, she's a mother of three

20:24

young children. And now we've

20:24

worked it out so that we each

20:28

teach three days a week, so we

20:28

have six days of coverage at the

20:31

Shala. But we each take three

20:31

days. And that's just so much

20:36

more manageable for me to be

20:36

able to just teach three days a

20:40

week, and do as you know, it

20:40

takes a lot to do the back end

20:44

admin and all that stuff, you

20:44

know, and then have the rest of

20:48

my time for my kids. So that was

20:48

a big challenge for me to sort

20:52

of work out this balance between

20:52

the Sharla and home life and you

20:56

know, the admin and all that

20:56

stuff. So now I feel like I'm in

20:59

a pretty good place. That yeah,

20:59

balance

21:02

with with eight years under your

21:02

belt. That's that's a good

21:05

feeling, isn't it? Because like,

21:05

there's that idea when you first

21:07

start open, it's like, Okay, we

21:07

got to make it one year. I mean,

21:11

obviously, you sign a five year

21:11

or maybe a three if you're a

21:14

little nervous. But to make it

21:14

three years as a small business

21:17

as a huge accomplishment. The

21:17

next milestone, we think five,

21:21

you get to five year Holy Cow

21:21

have made it to get to and

21:25

you're like, okay, something's

21:25

happened in here like this is?

21:27

Yeah, we've got this ball

21:27

rolling. What What are your

21:31

hours like when you teach? What

21:31

time do you start? And for how

21:34

long do you operate? And are you

21:34

teaching? Yeah, my sore? are you

21:37

operating leg classes and or

21:37

classes that are outside of the

21:42

Ashtanga model as well, such as

21:42

a gentle yen or any of that type

21:45

of stuff? Yeah, no, our Salah is actually

21:46

pretty exclusively I Stanga. And

21:50

we, before the pandemic, we had

21:50

an afternoon program and a

21:54

morning program. But our

21:54

afternoon program was always was

21:57

always pretty small. And it

21:57

totally dropped away during the

22:01

pandemic. And we've tried to

22:01

gauge interest in an afternoon

22:05

program and just hasn't really

22:05

hit. And so we're just opening

22:08

the mornings now. Students come

22:08

in as early as 630, or seven.

22:16

And we're there at the Shala

22:16

till usually 11 or so. But that

22:22

time includes teaching and

22:22

practice time for the teacher.

22:25

So if you look through our

22:25

website, you'll see that our

22:28

tagline is an autonomous and

22:28

interdependent community,

22:31

alleged unavailable

22:31

practitioners. And we chose I

22:35

chose that tagline pretty

22:35

intentionally because I wanted

22:39

to create an environment in

22:39

which students are empowered,

22:44

they're not dependent on the

22:44

teacher all the time. So the

22:47

shell is open for over four

22:47

hours, usually every morning.

22:51

But Meredith, that's my partner,

22:51

her and I usually only teach for

22:55

about two hours. So we're

22:55

teaching for a couple hours and

22:58

then doing our practice

22:58

afterwards, usually, so students

23:02

are welcome to stay late and

23:02

practice with us and come early

23:05

and start their practice before

23:05

we arrive. But we usually offer

23:08

instruction for about two hours.

23:08

And in that way, students are

23:12

not always looking to us to do

23:12

stuff for them, you know, we're

23:16

happy to guide them and offer

23:16

adjustments and instruction,

23:20

while we're in that teaching

23:20

role. But we also encourage them

23:25

to not be super dependent on

23:25

always having a teacher there.

23:30

Yeah. And also it kind of breaks

23:30

down this hierarchy when they

23:34

you know, when they see us,

23:34

okay, at a certain time and the

23:36

rooms, quieting down, we're

23:36

gonna roll our mat out, and just

23:39

be with them as fellow

23:39

practitioners. Because, for me,

23:44

it's very important to, yes,

23:44

there's a certain amount of

23:47

hierarchy that comes with being

23:47

in a teacher role, but then it's

23:49

important at a certain time to

23:49

let that go and just be in

23:54

community with with everybody

23:54

else. Agreed, I've never been

24:00

I've never been the sort of

24:00

teacher who likes to sit on a

24:03

pedestal or stand on a pedestal.

24:03

You know, I just want to

24:06

acknowledge that I have

24:06

accumulated some experience some

24:09

wisdom that's come from that

24:09

experience, and I'm here to

24:13

offer that. But ultimately,

24:13

teaching for me is a

24:17

collaborative process. And the

24:17

practice, you know, the student

24:20

owns their practice. I don't own

24:20

their practice.

24:22

Great point. What have you what

24:22

have you seen in relation to the

24:26

astanga world where that pitfall

24:26

you've seen people fall into

24:30

that pitfall of say, pedestal,

24:30

putting up on the pedestal? What

24:36

type of outcomes have you seen?

24:36

Because of that approach?

24:41

Obviously, everything comes with

24:41

good and bad, you know, some

24:45

positive benefits, some maybe

24:45

not so or what is it about that,

24:50

that you are skeptical or

24:50

careful to not fall into

24:55

yourself? Yeah. So I think that You know, at a

24:58

certain in the in the early

25:04

stages of one's practice, I

25:04

think it can be really

25:07

beneficial to surrender to a

25:07

process. And to trust that the

25:11

person leading you through that

25:11

process has your best interests

25:15

in mind, and is holding that

25:15

sort of mantle for you, you

25:19

know, and encouraging you to

25:19

work through challenges. And

25:27

also encouraging you to, you

25:27

know, know or figure out when to

25:32

soften, and take it easy. And so

25:32

it can be really, really

25:37

helpful. And actually, I would

25:37

say it might be essential at the

25:41

beginning to give part of your,

25:41

I don't want to say give part of

25:46

yourself, but just allow

25:46

somebody to hold that for you,

25:52

you know, trust somebody. The

25:52

thing is that, you want to make

25:57

sure you're trusting the right

25:57

person, you know, you want to

26:00

make sure you're trusting

26:00

somebody who really does have

26:03

your best interests at heart,

26:03

not their own ego, or their own

26:08

career, or their own allegiance

26:08

to something that they've

26:12

pledged allegiance to, which,

26:12

you know, is a little opaque,

26:16

but I think we can probably all

26:16

know what I'm talking about and

26:19

the Ashtanga world, there is a

26:19

hierarchy built in, in the

26:22

conventional Ashtanga world. And

26:22

so if one's teacher is really

26:26

baked into that hierarchy, and

26:26

it can be difficult for that

26:30

person to look at the student in

26:30

front of them and teach that

26:34

person versus teaching whatever

26:34

system that they feel allegiance

26:38

to. Yeah, well said. Yeah. So.

26:43

So yeah, I think there can be

26:43

benefits to, to surrendering at

26:46

the beginning, at some point in

26:46

the practice process. For some

26:50

people take a couple years, few

26:50

years, five to 10 years, I would

26:55

say within five to 10 years, if

26:55

you're still super dependent on

26:59

your teacher, like that teacher

26:59

has done a disservice, in my

27:02

opinion, because you and I

27:02

started our practitioners

27:06

specifically, this is a self

27:06

practice, right? The way that

27:08

it's taught my style, we're not

27:08

doing the same thing as

27:12

everybody else. At the same

27:12

time, we're building a practice

27:14

that's our own, we should be

27:14

able to take it. You know,

27:19

anywhere we should be able to

27:19

practice when we're on vacation,

27:22

we should be able to practice in

27:22

when we're in a pandemic, we

27:26

should be able to practice in

27:26

half an hour if we that's all

27:30

the time we have between taking

27:30

care of our kids and work or

27:33

whatever our responsibilities

27:33

are. I think, yes, it's a good

27:39

teacher job to to empower one

27:39

student and make sure they have

27:46

enough confidence in their

27:46

practice, that they can figure

27:50

things out for themselves. Yeah,

27:50

I think the pitfall of teaching

27:55

in a very authoritarian way is

27:55

that the students are just

28:01

disempowered. Great point.

28:04

Great point, I guess what it's

28:04

so seductive, though, to be in

28:09

that hierarchical environment, I

28:09

suppose. That's what the

28:12

attraction is maybe like there's

28:12

like a certain level of I mean,

28:18

I personally from my own

28:18

experience of traveling to

28:21

Mysore and, and practicing, this

28:21

was in 2004. And I mean, it was

28:27

really seductive in the sense

28:27

of, like, easing, like, I was

28:32

like, wow, but I also have this

28:32

feeling of humility, or feeling

28:37

like, everybody is so much

28:37

higher than me and above me,

28:41

which, which did feel kind of

28:41

nice. Like, I felt like it was a

28:44

humbling type of experience. And

28:44

I think that was also a little

28:48

bit attractive, too. But I

28:48

personally because I had been

28:51

coming from the Bikram yoga

28:51

world, my wife and I used to own

28:54

a Bikram yoga studio down in San

28:54

Diego. Yeah. And so I would

28:57

travel and practice with them.

28:57

And I saw a lot of like abuse

29:01

stuff that went down with him

29:01

that yeah, kind of caused me to,

29:05

like we got to get out of here.

29:05

And we thought, let's go to

29:07

Mysore and practice with batavi

29:07

Joyce, and it seemed very

29:12

different to me at the time,

29:12

like it seemed like Well,

29:14

obviously, like going to Mysore

29:14

and seeing the Mysore practice

29:17

was a huge eye opener in terms

29:17

of self practice, and someone

29:21

not barking orders at you while

29:21

you're practicing is extremely

29:24

attractive. But I also at the

29:24

same time felt like I don't want

29:28

to fall into that hierarchical

29:28

structure again, and try to

29:31

climb that ladder. Like I just

29:31

saw all the bad stuff that can

29:34

happen that from that with the

29:34

Yeah, the last, the last the end

29:38

ago, perspective that I saw

29:38

there. So I'm curious what you

29:43

have this sort of maturity I'm

29:43

getting from you like where you

29:47

just kind of seem like a free

29:47

agent and you're comfortable

29:49

with that. You're not

29:49

necessarily clamoring to climb

29:53

that ladder ladder to get some

29:53

sort of social status. And I'm

29:56

curious, where did that come

29:56

from? How did you get fortune I

30:00

don't, I don't know. Maybe I've always had a bit of a

30:02

rebellious spirit. So it's

30:05

probably just inbuilt. But, you

30:05

know, early on in my, in my

30:10

teaching, there was more

30:10

conflict around it. But I feel

30:14

like I've had these moments in

30:14

my life sort of fork in the road

30:16

moment. And I do, I do think

30:16

there's something inbuilt in me

30:21

Where once I come to those fork

30:21

in the road moment, and I

30:24

choose, I have a tendency to

30:24

just be good with my decision.

30:28

And so I did have that fork in

30:28

the road moment with Ashtanga

30:33

Yoga, in terms of teaching where

30:33

I had gone to Mysore one time,

30:37

it's actually the year after put

30:37

out the choice died. So I didn't

30:41

meet him, but I practiced the

30:41

charts. And I like you said it

30:44

was very seductive and not just

30:44

productive. But it was very

30:46

meaningful. I had a great time

30:46

there. For me, going to India is

30:50

a bit more complex, perhaps than

30:50

the average Westerner because I

30:54

am Indian myself. So already for

30:54

me, the smoke and mirrors don't

30:58

really do much, you know, like,

30:58

I'm not, I'm not. So what we're

31:03

talking about the word seduced,

31:03

I'm not supposed to do by all

31:08

that all the trappings. And I

31:08

think there are a lot of

31:10

trappings. I think India is a

31:10

beautiful place. But anyone that

31:15

comes from a culture sees the

31:15

complexities in the culture, you

31:19

know, in a more intimate way

31:19

than somebody looking from the

31:22

outside usually. So for me,

31:22

India is is is a complicated

31:27

place. And I love it. And so

31:27

yeah, I loved being there. I

31:33

came back, and I was teaching it

31:33

back in LA for a while I hadn't

31:38

opened my shell yet, but around

31:38

the time where maybe a year or

31:42

so before I was going to open

31:42

it, I had to make a decision,

31:45

like, am I going to keep going

31:45

to Mysore? And or is this or am

31:48

I going to do my own thing. And,

31:48

you know, my heart was telling

31:54

me like, that's not that path is

31:54

not for you, like I said, my

31:56

teacher was, has been mantra

31:56

joy. And I don't really believe

32:00

in a lot of what they're doing

32:00

in my sort these days, I don't

32:03

believe that everybody needs to

32:03

stand there from a drop back, I

32:06

don't believe that everybody

32:06

needs to bind their hand and

32:09

typical Meissner, all these

32:09

little benchmarks, I just don't

32:12

think it's beneficial for most

32:12

students to have to meet these

32:15

aesthetic benchmarks to be able

32:15

to progress in their practice.

32:19

And so for me, it became a

32:19

choice of, okay, I can choose to

32:23

climb the ladder, just to have

32:23

the paper and just to have the

32:26

status, but I'm probably still

32:26

going to teach the way I want to

32:28

teach. So then I'd be lying, you

32:28

know, so, but I just don't, I

32:33

don't want to lie. I don't want

32:33

to be inauthentic in that way.

32:37

So I just thought, I'm not going

32:37

to do it. I'm just going to do

32:40

my own thing. And I got some

32:40

backlash from the more

32:45

conventional community here. And

32:45

that was hard. And some of them

32:48

were my friends before. But you

32:48

know, that's part of following

32:52

your own path, you know, ruffle

32:52

some feathers. I'm okay with it

32:56

now. And, you know, it's it's

32:56

interesting to observe that of

33:02

the several Ashtanga programs

33:02

that were here on the west side

33:05

of LA. There's maybe a couple

33:05

they're still around, and I'm

33:10

one of them, so I feel pretty

33:10

good.

33:16

I agree. 100%. I agree. 100%, it

33:16

feels so good to just do

33:20

something because you love it.

33:20

And then to have that love

33:24

actually keep you going. So

33:24

amazed. Yeah. If

33:28

we don't if we don't love if we

33:28

Yeah, if there's no love there,

33:32

then why are we doing it? In my

33:32

opinion? You know, that's a

33:35

little sad to me to see, like,

33:35

some of these more, you know,

33:40

you could say strict or

33:40

conventional teachers that seem

33:43

to have no love anymore. Left.

33:43

And just a little sad. Little

33:48

sad for their students. Yep.

33:52

Korean point. Yes. What have you

33:52

have, I want to ask you this.

33:58

I'm a little nervous to ask you

33:58

because I know it just takes us

34:01

down a very potentially

34:01

uncomfortable conversation

34:06

point. So I am willing to just

34:06

like, jump ship from this

34:10

question right away. If you're

34:10

like, please, I don't know. I

34:13

don't want to talk about it. So

34:13

I I just appreciate that. I just

34:18

recently read the trauma of cast

34:18

by Finn Mozi sunder Rajan. And

34:23

have you read that? No, I haven't read it.

34:27

Oh my gosh. So then maybe I

34:27

won't be able to ask this

34:30

question. But it's it's just a

34:30

roundabout like the caste system

34:33

in India. And it just opened my

34:33

eyes. Really big time. And I

34:38

love that you brought up the

34:38

smoke and mirrors element

34:41

because I think like a lot of us

34:41

Westerners going to India. It's

34:46

like, dazzling in terms of

34:46

spirituality think wow, this is

34:49

where all the answers lie. You

34:49

know, this is like one of the

34:51

oldest civilizations where some

34:51

of these things I've been

34:55

questioning seem to have been

34:55

worked out a long time ago and

34:59

perhaps Everest Yeah, thought

34:59

has been already thought before,

35:02

everything has been explored

35:02

already. And there's nothing.

35:06

It's all here. And therefore,

35:06

and I saw the caste system. And

35:12

I was like, Whoa, this is heavy.

35:12

You know, like, it wasn't really

35:17

apparent to me. But it was, but

35:17

I didn't really know what was

35:21

going on. But it just seemed

35:21

like, this is so interesting. So

35:24

I just would just like to ask

35:24

you, I guess. Yeah. Because

35:29

growing up here and going there,

35:29

I just so curious how you how

35:32

you feel about all that interpret it? Yeah. You know, it's interesting

35:34

that, you know, the answers are

35:37

here, like, and when you said

35:37

that, about India, the first

35:42

thought that came to my mind was

35:42

yes, the answers are all there

35:45

and the answers are everywhere.

35:45

You know, like yes, virtuality

35:49

there, there is a deep well of

35:49

spirituality in India. There are

35:54

also deep wells and spirituality

35:54

within the Christian faith,

35:58

within Jewish faith within the

35:58

Muslim faith, there are deep

36:01

wells of spirituality in all

36:01

these traditions. And along with

36:06

those the wells of spirituality,

36:06

there are all the complexities

36:12

of being human, in the real

36:12

world, and on practical level,

36:17

and the caste system. Yeah, you

36:17

know, as Westerners, especially

36:22

in this cultural moment, I think

36:22

we have a tendency to, sort of

36:26

just like, you know, in America,

36:26

at least white supremacy is

36:29

something that just talks about

36:29

so much racism, anti black

36:33

racism, you know, racism,

36:33

against racism against all kinds

36:37

of people of color, as if White

36:37

people are the only perpetrators

36:42

of racism and coming from a

36:42

culture that does still adhere,

36:50

perhaps not so officially, but

36:50

unofficially, to the caste

36:54

system, like I mean, it is very

36:54

alive in India, still, it's

36:58

always been so clear to me that

36:58

racism, or sort of

37:01

discrimination, more broadly,

37:01

human beings, separating

37:07

ourselves and judging other

37:07

people based on whatever

37:10

characteristics we choose. That

37:10

has been going on, since the

37:17

beginning of civilization that's

37:17

not new or unique to America or

37:22

the Western world. It happens in

37:22

India, it happens across the

37:26

world. And so what that teaches

37:26

me is that these things are

37:33

universal, right? Like, there's

37:33

no need to demonize a specific

37:38

group of people, because

37:38

actually, we all do it, we all

37:42

do it. And so the work then, is

37:42

to reach into our wealth, where

37:50

the spiritual where our virtual

37:50

hearts are live, and try to

37:55

bring that love into the real

37:55

world, and put it into action.

38:00

mean, in essence, to me, when I

38:00

think about activism, like, you

38:05

know, it, activism, now, it's

38:05

such a watered down term. And

38:10

it's come to mean something very

38:10

specific. But when I think about

38:13

activism, I think about people

38:13

like Gandhi, MLK, you know,

38:18

like, and those are just the

38:18

ones that come to mind, you

38:22

know, but these are people that

38:22

lead with love, and they're

38:25

complex human beings, too. I'm

38:25

not saying that they were

38:28

perfect. You dig a little deeper

38:28

into both of their histories.

38:30

And there's complexity there.

38:30

There's nuance there, you know,

38:35

but no human being is perfect.

38:35

We can only try to lead with

38:39

love. And, yeah, I think we need

38:39

that in all parts of the world.

38:44

And it doesn't do us any good to

38:44

look through rose colored

38:47

glasses, at any specific part of

38:47

the world.

38:52

Beautifully said. Great answer.

38:52

I think you navigated that

38:56

really well. Yeah. You had. I

38:56

know. It's a tough one. But you

39:01

made it feel really, really

39:01

easy. So good job. Thank you.

39:05

I'm curious you had brought up

39:05

earlier right before we hit the

39:09

record button, have expressing

39:09

interest in? Maybe they're

39:14

discussing or mentioning the

39:14

idea of inclusivity? And then

39:19

the broadening that potentially

39:19

you'd like to see happen in the

39:22

Istanbul world? Can you speak a

39:22

little bit about Yeah, thinking

39:24

in that direction? Yeah, I mean, I think it can

39:26

start with really practical and

39:29

practical ways. You know, we

39:29

were just talking about the sort

39:31

of aesthetic benchmark that

39:31

sometimes students are

39:35

encouraged to, you know,

39:35

accomplish or whatever be

39:39

proficient in whatever language

39:39

people use before moving on. I

39:43

think just opening that up can

39:43

make a space more inclusive just

39:47

on a physical level. It can, it

39:47

can make it so that people are

39:51

not so concerned with the

39:51

aesthetics of their posture. And

39:55

I think it can bring the

39:55

awareness more internal, when

39:58

we're focused on what's

39:58

happening with our breath? And

40:01

how are we feeling in our

40:01

bodies? How is our stamina, all

40:04

these things, if those can be

40:04

our guiding forces, in terms of,

40:08

you know, how we're progressing

40:08

through the series. And also, if

40:11

we can open up the sequences a

40:11

little bit so that after a

40:14

student has put in their five

40:14

years or whatever, even before

40:17

that, there can be some openness

40:17

on, hey, I have this specific

40:21

issue, can I bring in some

40:21

postures from second series, or

40:24

even third series to address

40:24

this issue? If we can be more

40:27

open with things like that, we

40:27

already create a more inclusive

40:30

space. And then the financial

40:30

aspect is another part, you

40:33

know, can we open up our

40:33

practice spaces so that they're

40:38

inclusive to all kinds of people

40:38

on the financial spectrum in

40:42

terms of socio economic status,

40:42

and there's a lot of talk about

40:47

diversity, you know, in, in the

40:47

culture more broadly, and in the

40:50

yoga world. I think diversity is

40:50

very important. But if we're

40:55

only thinking about diversity in

40:55

terms of race, or whatever

40:59

specific metric we have in mind,

40:59

that's narrow in and of itself,

41:04

you know, if you actually I

41:04

found at least that if we open

41:08

up the financial side of things,

41:08

we get people coming in with

41:11

lots of different life

41:11

experiences. And the racial

41:14

diversity, at least in some, you

41:14

know, where I am at least a

41:17

place like LA, it automatically

41:17

happens, because we're opening

41:21

up who can walk in the door, you

41:21

know, but then in addition to

41:25

that, you get, you know,

41:25

different viewpoints, because a

41:28

person that can afford 200,

41:28

ollars, a month without a

41:31

problem, and a different life

41:31

perspective, life experiences

41:36

than someone who can only afford

41:36

50. You know, it's just, they

41:39

just have different life

41:39

experiences. And so then we

41:43

bring in different perspectives

41:43

into the room. And I also think

41:46

it's really important. This is a

41:46

bit of a maybe controversial

41:51

thing to say, but it's become

41:51

clear to me that politically,

41:56

also, you know, there's this

41:56

sense that yoga studios need to

42:02

adhere to a particular ideology,

42:02

and I think that can actually be

42:06

a little exclusionary, because

42:06

what if somebody wants to come

42:12

practice? Who voted for Trump in

42:12

the last election? Like, are we

42:16

not going to make that person

42:16

feel comfortable? You know, I'm

42:21

not saying that teachers have

42:21

to, like, cut off their own

42:23

views or not speak about

42:23

politics at all in the space. In

42:28

fact, you know, maybe it's

42:28

useful in some context. But I've

42:32

just become aware of that in the

42:32

last few years that, you know,

42:35

we're not in a situation in

42:35

which half the country is good

42:40

and half the country's evil, I

42:40

just really don't believe that.

42:43

I believe that there are things

42:43

we need to learn from each

42:45

other. And whatever we can do to

42:45

make people comfortable

42:50

communing, being together. For

42:50

me, that feels very important.

42:55

Yes. Excellent. I agree. And I

42:55

think you you, I imagine you

43:01

have some of that living in

43:01

Florida, you know that you have

43:03

a range of perspective coming

43:03

in?

43:06

Oh, boy. Oh, my gosh, yeah. I

43:06

mean, that's a great, I mean,

43:10

it's a really good question.

43:10

Because I got the track that I

43:14

always take is I just don't talk

43:14

about it at all. Unless I'm on a

43:21

one on one level. And then, you

43:21

know, maybe there'll be a reason

43:27

to converse. But I really try to

43:27

keep the politics out of our

43:31

studio. Because as you see, as

43:31

you know, it just that's such a

43:35

heavy thing. But I mean, the

43:35

politics element is really just

43:37

like the polarization element,

43:37

it seems. And then we could be

43:40

polarized with any subject, like

43:40

as we're seeing, right? There's

43:46

polarity on every topic. So I

43:46

don't know like, lately,

43:51

personally, I keep getting this

43:51

incredible sense that we're

43:55

going through something that's

43:55

just so amazing, right now, it

43:59

seems so heavy at times, but

43:59

also at the same time, I think

44:02

we're going to really come out

44:02

for the better, we're gonna like

44:06

it might have to get really,

44:06

really tough for us to get to

44:09

that point where we can look at

44:09

each other and see respect for

44:12

each other, even though there's

44:12

differences and opinions, but I

44:16

do think we're gonna come out in

44:16

some really incredible space

44:20

like, what do you think probably

44:20

do when you think of? Could

44:25

could the world could we live in

44:25

it could the earth that we live

44:29

on? Could we all actually get

44:29

along? Or do we have to have

44:33

struggle and strife and conflict

44:33

for existence to be existence?

44:39

Is it is it silly for me to even

44:39

dream of a world where we all

44:45

see not necessarily the same,

44:45

but we just have respect for

44:49

each other no matter what,

44:49

because we see each other as one

44:51

human family, or is that just

44:51

absolute nonsense because

44:57

through the competition, the

44:57

struggle on this strife. That's

45:00

what builds our character and

45:00

makes us learn something, I

45:05

guess. Well, yeah, I don't think

45:05

we could find any answer to this

45:09

right now. I don't. But where

45:09

have you been with? With?

45:14

Yeah, these are big questions.

45:14

These are big questions. And I

45:17

think it's, it's tempting to

45:17

want to have an answer. But

45:23

these are I think these are

45:23

unanswerable questions. But that

45:26

doesn't mean there's not value

45:26

in asking them and conversing

45:29

about them. You know, diving

45:29

deep. I don't think it's silly

45:34

to, to dream of a world in which

45:34

we can have mutual respect for

45:38

each other. To me, that seems.

45:38

That seems like it should be a

45:42

baseline, right? Unfortunately,

45:42

why

45:46

is that? Yeah. Why is that such

45:46

an outlandish idea? Yeah,

45:52

and I don't think it's

45:52

outlandish, but it's, it's

45:56

difficult. And I think, you

45:56

know, like, all we can do is our

46:02

little part, that's how I feel.

46:02

And so for me, like, my little

46:05

part is okay, how can in my

46:05

small life? How can I live in a

46:09

way that, that honors that

46:09

ideal, where I'm actually

46:14

putting into practice these

46:14

things that I believe in? And so

46:17

for me, it's like, actually,

46:17

things like, reaching out to

46:20

people who I who might, like

46:20

really believe different stuff

46:24

than I do. And being like, hey,

46:24

our kids, like get along, like,

46:27

maybe we should, like, go for

46:27

lunch, or maybe we should get

46:29

together or, you know, our

46:29

family should meet up and things

46:32

like that. Because only through

46:32

putting ourselves in

46:35

uncomfortable situations, are we

46:35

going to actually get anywhere.

46:40

I think the second point that

46:40

you said is also like really

46:43

valid and that we do need some

46:43

conflict and some discomfort, to

46:50

catalyze transformation. And I

46:50

don't mean that in the way that

46:53

like, we need to manufacture it,

46:53

we don't need to manufacture

46:57

suffering. But just because we

46:57

all have our little egos that we

47:02

live with, there's going to be

47:02

times when we have conflict with

47:05

other people. And so if we can

47:05

engage in that conflict,

47:12

consciously and compassionately

47:12

then if so if we can do it, you

47:17

know, in our little lives, then

47:17

perhaps that can build and we

47:20

can do it on a community level.

47:20

And maybe on a country level and

47:26

national level, you know, I so

47:26

for me, yeah, I just really

47:31

believe in starting small

47:31

starting with what you have.

47:34

Yeah, yeah, great point. What, either

47:35

posture or certain movement

47:43

direction Have you had to either

47:43

let go of or maybe soften on the

47:52

intensity that you pushed on

47:52

going in that direction due to

47:57

age? Or just evolution? Or oh,

47:57

my

48:00

gosh, however, yeah, I mean, our aging process.

48:04

Aging Process. Yes. After my

48:04

second child, I feel like my

48:07

aging process, catalyzed

48:07

significantly, there was

48:11

something hormonal that shifted

48:11

after I had him but and I see it

48:16

and feel it, mostly in my

48:16

joints, my knees specifically.

48:21

So I have had to back off and a

48:21

lot on stuff that aggravates or

48:27

puts pressure on the knees, and

48:27

I'm talking about, you know,

48:31

sometimes I'll do lotus, but I

48:31

can go entire weeks where I

48:34

never put my legs and motors,

48:34

I've never even put my legs in

48:37

half lotus, because it doesn't

48:37

feel right, or there's some pain

48:41

that I'm experiencing or

48:41

whatever. And it's actually

48:44

pretty cool. Because I think as

48:44

I stand up, we're like, so

48:46

attached to our Lotus positions,

48:46

you know, so just to let that go

48:50

and find different ways of

48:50

working into those postures. And

48:54

then when my knees are feeling

48:54

decent, to find ways of doing a

48:58

lotus position that are much

48:58

more engaged because I have

49:01

generally my joints are over

49:01

flexible and so I don't have to

49:06

really work very hard to put

49:06

myself in some of these Lotus

49:10

type positions, I haven't had to

49:10

work very hard historically, but

49:13

now if I am to enter them, I

49:13

have to enter them with like,

49:17

extreme amount of engagement to

49:17

support my joints to support my

49:22

knees so that they don't pop or

49:22

have some like tear happen so so

49:28

it's been really cool to to

49:28

relearn how to do some of that

49:33

stuff and also to let some of

49:33

this stuff go entirely and be

49:36

like I'm never gonna do that

49:36

again. And that's okay.

49:40

Thank you so much. Yeah, yeah,

49:43

I started doing sometimes my

49:43

even my primary students

49:46

practice with no lotus and

49:46

things like mighty desk and A, B

49:50

and D. with the leg that you

49:50

know, supposed to be in lotus, I

49:54

started to fold it the other

49:54

way. So as if it's in green,

49:57

we'll take a better question we

49:57

can ask in a position Which

50:02

means nothing to somebody who

50:02

doesn't practice those dongles.

50:04

But if you if some listeners are

50:04

familiar, then you can kind of

50:07

picture what I'm saying. So it's

50:07

a totally different way of doing

50:10

money doesn't A, B, and D. But

50:10

it feels great on my knees. And

50:15

it's just been really fun to do

50:15

things like that. Do

50:18

you find because when you're an

50:18

external rotation position, such

50:21

as Padmasana, that's where it

50:21

triggers? Is it your medial or

50:24

lateral knee that you feel it

50:24

when you're in next time?

50:27

Yeah, it's on the inside, it's

50:27

on the inside. So yeah, sort of

50:31

loaded positions quite

50:31

aggravated. And to the point

50:34

where there can be a little bit

50:34

of snapping that happens. And

50:38

this used to happen earlier on

50:38

too. But what I've, what I've

50:41

noticed is that, as I've aged,

50:41

is just like the recovery

50:46

doesn't happen as quickly. And

50:46

so I can't afford to just be

50:51

like, well, you know, like,

50:51

that's fine. No, I have to,

50:56

like, take care of it before, in

50:56

anticipation of some issue that

51:00

might arise. Oh, man, I hear you. And then

51:01

because you have a two year you

51:04

have a two year old. And so

51:04

later on, in the day after

51:07

practice, you got to clean up

51:07

the cheese, it's off the floor.

51:10

And so you're like, getting, you

51:10

gotta stand up, you're like, oh,

51:13

my gosh, how am I gonna get up?

51:13

Right? Like, what the heck's I

51:17

gotta, there's a lot more, I gotta pick him up in the middle

51:18

of the night. Room, like,

51:22

there's all kinds of things,

51:22

right? So for me, it's like,

51:24

yeah, before children, I could

51:24

spend the rest of my day like

51:28

nursing all my little aches and

51:28

pains that I don't have that

51:31

luxury anymore. So I need to

51:31

practice in a way that's really

51:35

going to support the rest of my

51:35

life. And that's what I like to

51:37

instill in my students to like,

51:37

you have to practice in a way

51:41

that's going to support whatever

51:41

your life is. So I have some

51:43

students whose life can be their

51:43

practice. But I have to say,

51:47

don't have that many students

51:47

like that anymore. I did, maybe

51:50

before the pandemic, but most of

51:50

my students now have full lives,

51:54

whether they're parents or

51:54

they're working full time, or

51:56

whatever it is. They need their

51:56

practice to be supportive to the

52:01

rest of their life, not the less

52:01

rest of their life is there to

52:05

support their practice, you

52:05

know, so So we teach in that way

52:09

at the shallow that's, you know,

52:09

like, you know, efficient, your

52:13

practice doesn't have to take

52:13

forever, you can modify things

52:17

you got to take, yeah, no

52:17

challenge oneself to the point

52:22

where it feels beneficial. That

52:22

but not past that edge,

52:27

necessarily. That is so good to hear. I think

52:29

it's really important to talk

52:33

about that. And skidded out

52:33

there for all of us. But because

52:36

personally, I agree with you

52:36

too, I've, I've had to do that

52:39

with my knees and with my back

52:39

bending and with my end. And at

52:45

first, it was a sense of loss.

52:45

And now it's this big sense of

52:47

gain, because there's so much

52:47

less pressure that I'm putting

52:50

on myself, and it just feels so

52:50

good to just actually enjoy

52:53

breathing and, and supporting

52:53

versus competing. And

53:00

yeah, and it's a gift to our

53:00

students also. Because I think

53:03

unless we've had that

53:03

experience, and we really

53:06

honored it, we can talk a good

53:06

game. But if our students can

53:10

see us practicing in the same

53:10

way, every day of regardless of

53:13

what our body feels like,

53:13

whatever it is we're going

53:16

through, then they know that

53:16

we're not really walking the

53:19

walk. What about when you do your

53:20

YouTube videos, do you like the

53:25

other day I had a friend, I went

53:25

to do some photos on the beach.

53:29

And I've gone through these phases where I've been really trying to not post anything with

53:30

yoga poses in it, because I feel

53:34

like some of my peers have been

53:34

like, you know, really

53:38

encouraging the conversation of

53:38

like, yoga is not just about us

53:41

and everybody and destroying

53:41

really fancy complicated us and

53:44

it's not gonna attract people to

53:44

yoga, it's gonna scare them. And

53:48

or give the false impression of

53:48

what it's about. And then I just

53:51

figured, you know what, let me just do something, I enjoy them and just go do a photoshoot on

53:53

the beach. And so I, of course,

53:58

pushed way harder than I

53:58

probably needed to be. So like,

54:03

I know that you're involved with

54:03

camera work, and you do a

54:07

phenomenal job with your YouTube

54:07

channel. Well, how do you

54:10

balance that? When, like, a

54:10

little sense of you, that's

54:14

like, Okay, I really should push because people are gonna be watching I need to make a good

54:15

representation of where I am in

54:18

my life right now. And then

54:18

later on in life, right? Yeah.

54:21

But do do ya do? Coach?

54:25

Yeah, it's um, so I made a

54:25

conscious decision early on in

54:29

my teaching career that I wasn't

54:29

going to be very public with my

54:32

own awesomeness in terms of

54:32

images and stuff. So because of

54:37

exactly what you just said, I

54:37

don't want to give people a

54:41

perception of like, this is what

54:41

they should look like when

54:45

they're practicing yoga or

54:45

anything like that. So any

54:48

images of me that are online

54:48

practicing or videos or

54:52

practicing, or just have me

54:52

while I'm actually practicing,

54:57

so yes, it's not like there are

54:57

no images of me out there there

55:00

are, you can find them. But I

55:00

have never really like done a

55:05

photo shoot from, from my own

55:05

astronauts in for promotional

55:09

purposes. But I do have a lot of

55:09

videos on my YouTube, and but

55:16

they're not of Me. They're

55:16

practice videos. And honestly, I

55:19

haven't put a new video up in a

55:19

long time just because my kids

55:21

have taken up most of my

55:21

attention. But all my my

55:25

practice videos are very

55:25

intentional. And I think the

55:29

reason that people like them are

55:29

because I include students that

55:34

all look a little different from

55:34

each other, and not just look,

55:37

in terms of you know, like their

55:37

ethnicity and their physical

55:41

stature. There is diversity in

55:41

those respects, but also in

55:45

terms of what their Asana looks

55:45

like, I offer modifications in

55:50

all my videos. You know,

55:50

sometimes you see practice

55:53

videos where modifications are

55:53

offered, but it's, they're

55:56

offered, they're modeled by

55:56

someone who can already do the

55:59

asana, like perfectly, but

55:59

they're just showing the

56:02

modification. And that's good.

56:02

But I think it can be more

56:08

people can relate to it more

56:08

when they see a student who

56:10

actually need that modification,

56:10

you know, like they need to do

56:13

it that way. So I have been

56:13

intentional about showing those

56:18

types of students in my videos.

56:18

And I hope to do a second series

56:22

one next year, right now I have

56:22

a half primary, a full primary,

56:26

a half and half, half primary

56:26

half intermediate. And I'm

56:28

hoping to get a full

56:28

intermediate one up next year,

56:31

because I really believe in the

56:31

power of a second series, I just

56:34

think it's an amazing sequence

56:34

are really transformative for

56:39

the nervous system. So I think

56:39

like most students, if they're

56:44

dedicated, should be practicing

56:44

intermediate. And there's so

56:49

many modifications to make it

56:49

accessible, you know, so, yeah,

56:53

so I think in terms of, you

56:53

know, having an online presence,

56:57

the question that you asked is,

56:57

I think we just need to be

57:01

authentic. And for me, this is

57:01

the decision that felt authentic

57:04

is to not put myself put too

57:04

many images of myself out there

57:08

in a performative way. But to

57:08

make sure that the, the, the

57:12

con, the, the content that I am

57:12

putting out there is actually

57:20

going to be useful to people. Oh, well said, Thank you so much

57:22

for explaining all that. I think

57:26

it's great to even think about

57:26

that, because I know there's

57:30

obviously situations where

57:30

people are going Oh, who cares?

57:35

I'm just showing off I don't

57:35

want to think about that. So I

57:37

liked that you explained the

57:37

reason the reasons why it's

57:41

important to keep it where it's

57:41

not performative and and I love

57:48

the fact that you said you

57:48

brought up you're bringing your

57:50

real life students in who have

57:50

realized need for not brown not

57:58

putting a leg behind the head.

57:58

Exactly the other day I thought

58:02

you know, I haven't done second series in a while because I've been trying to avoid back I'm

58:04

trying to be very careful with

58:06

backbending and to to like

58:06

discuss you and but then I

58:11

thought I love second series so

58:11

much and I've been staying away

58:14

from it let me just do it

58:14

without doing any backbends but

58:17

not skipping any the back bends.

58:17

So like Campbell just put hands

58:21

on the hips, but just don't be

58:21

awkward and just something like

58:27

that cup of toss and it just

58:27

made. Yeah. And I had so much

58:30

fun. I really actually had fun.

58:30

I think and I think it's

58:35

important what you're talking

58:35

about to keep the keep it real.

58:41

Yeah that's a good motto. Keep

58:41

it real.

58:47

Keep it real. All right. Yeah,

58:47

yeah, let's just keep it simple

58:50

and keep it real. Yeah, it's

58:50

that it's that easy. I guess

58:54

then Well, yeah, I think we you know,

58:56

as humans we we like to make

58:59

things complicated. But in

58:59

essence, I think things are

59:03

pretty simple. Oh, it's about

59:03

stripping away you know,

59:07

stripping away which can

59:07

sometimes be the hardest part.

59:10

Yeah. Through thoroughly enjoyed this,

59:13

thank you so much. I really

59:17

appreciate you taking time and

59:17

and I know being a parent,

59:21

you're busy as heck. And so in

59:21

owning studio, you're super

59:25

busy. So thank you so much for

59:25

carving out this time for me and

59:28

trusting me and not knowing me

59:28

and being willing to come on and

59:32

be as open and honest as you

59:32

are. So I really do appreciate

59:36

it. Is there anything? Yeah,

59:36

thank you. You're welcome. Is

59:40

there anything that I missed and

59:40

or in the process of turning in

59:46

toward the conclusion that you

59:46

would like to add and or share

59:52

or offer some inspiration? I

59:52

really I'm trying to just pump

59:57

out as much positivity as

59:57

possible. So anything you can

59:59

and say to kind of just like,

59:59

for all of us listening does

1:00:05

help us to, you know, kind of

1:00:05

keep pushing forward here. Is

1:00:07

there any thoughts you have?

1:00:07

Beyond what,

1:00:13

a lot of great stuff, but you

1:00:13

know, I just, I think that

1:00:19

something we touched on earlier

1:00:19

is coming to me as perhaps a

1:00:23

closing note of inspiration. And

1:00:23

that's just to lead with love.

1:00:27

And I don't mean that in kind of

1:00:27

a woowoo way, and you know,

1:00:32

there's this love and light sort

1:00:32

of phrase that gets trust tossed

1:00:35

around in our community. And

1:00:35

that's not what I mean, I don't

1:00:38

mean that everything is easy.

1:00:38

What I mean is that when we

1:00:43

choose to lead with love,

1:00:43

sometimes it requires struggle,

1:00:48

and discomfort, whether that's

1:00:48

on the mat physically, or off

1:00:54

the mat, in our relationships,

1:00:54

our relationships with

1:00:57

ourselves, our relationships

1:00:57

with other people. If we can

1:01:01

choose love I think we're on the

1:01:01

right track.

1:01:07

Yes, thank you. Thank you.

1:01:12

Thank you, Todd. Yeah, it's been

1:01:12

a real pleasure. I appreciate

1:01:14

your thoughtfulness and, you

1:01:14

know, providing me the space to

1:01:18

share my perspective. Cool. I will reach out to you

1:01:19

again in the future and see what

1:01:23

what you've learned, like in a

1:01:23

year or two or something and

1:01:26

see, I look forward to it. Bill,

1:01:26

thanks, found a D is so great.

1:01:34

And I will, I will be in touch.

1:01:34

Great. Thank you. My wife's

1:01:40

family live out in California.

1:01:40

So next time, they're like in

1:01:43

kind of Newport area. So next

1:01:43

time, not too far. Not too far.

1:01:48

But next time I come out, I'll

1:01:48

come practice with you. And

1:01:51

great, and I really look forward

1:01:51

to it. So I will see you soon.

1:01:56

Okay, likewise. Thank you. Bye, bye. Hi, Todd.

1:01:58

It's pretty the I just put my

1:02:05

kids to bed. And I've been

1:02:05

thinking about our conversation,

1:02:09

specifically, those parting

1:02:09

words that I left your listeners

1:02:12

with, lead with love. And you

1:02:12

know, I've just been reflecting

1:02:17

on those words and thinking

1:02:17

about, you know, how sort of

1:02:21

vague that can sound. And just

1:02:21

parenting to young children, you

1:02:27

know, I realized there's so many

1:02:27

opportunities for me to learn

1:02:30

about love from them, the way

1:02:30

they're incredibly forgiving,

1:02:35

and give me so much grace, when

1:02:35

I'm imperfect as most parents

1:02:40

are, and how many times I have

1:02:40

to take a deep breath. And, you

1:02:46

know, remember that I love them.

1:02:46

It's just such a gift to be able

1:02:51

to have that practice, you know,

1:02:51

the practice of parenting. And I

1:02:56

think because of that I have like a really practical

1:02:59

approach to, to these big

1:03:04

concepts like leading with love.

1:03:04

Because to me, it's in these

1:03:09

small, small acts, this like

1:03:09

taking a deep breath, or my my

1:03:14

kids, you know, giving me a hug,

1:03:14

five seconds after I've yelled

1:03:20

at them or something. These are

1:03:20

the moments you know, where the

1:03:25

transformation happens. And I

1:03:25

think it that applies to all of

1:03:30

us, every moment that we can

1:03:30

choose to be together rather

1:03:34

than a part, even when it's

1:03:34

uncomfortable. Choose to be with

1:03:39

somebody in real life versus on

1:03:39

a screen, even when it's

1:03:44

inconvenient. And when we can

1:03:44

choose to shed some of our

1:03:51

baggage shed some of these

1:03:51

identities that we tend to cling

1:03:55

so fiercely, to, you know, shed

1:03:55

them a little bit so that we can

1:04:00

see that shared humanity in the

1:04:00

person sitting across from us. I

1:04:07

think that's how we lead with

1:04:07

love. And so I just wanted to

1:04:12

share that with you. And thank

1:04:12

you again for the opportunity to

1:04:16

reflect and, and talk and

1:04:16

listen. And I'll be sending love

1:04:21

to you and everybody out there

1:04:21

who's listening.

1:04:30

Native yoga podcast is produced

1:04:30

by myself. The theme music is

1:04:34

dreamed up by Bryce Allen. If

1:04:34

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1:04:40

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1:04:40

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1:04:47

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